Women are becoming increasingly less feminine and exhibiting masculine traits that most men find unattractive, yet due to desperation and simping they have no motivation to stop

wtknight · 2024-02-13T23:31:33+00:00

Post removed and locked due to OP non-participation

AnnoKano · 2024-02-13T16:37:35+00:00

OP:

Women have begun behaving in a way that is completely counterintuitive to evolutionary biology and everything that drives attraction in the opposite sex. Gender norms and primary/secondary sex characteristics predate modern society by millions of years, and suddenly saying “nah let’s do this” is not going to change any of that.

Also the OP:

Women are becoming increasingly less feminine and exhibiting masculine traits that most men find unattractive, yet due to desperation and simping they have no motivation to stop

Which one is it Mr Loopy, because it can't be both.

AdApprehensive483 · 2024-02-13T16:39:40+00:00

I’m curious what you think a feminine grunt sounded like from Homo sapiens about 300,000 years ago. Or like, a gentle feminine way of bashing the head in on some wild game. Just wondering bruh…. Since it’s evolutionary biology and all.

KayRay1994 · 2024-02-13T16:46:17+00:00

Outside of the brash, cocky behavior a lot of this can go either way. Women can be very feminine with short hair, swearing and vulgar speech is neither a masculine nor feminine thing, and rapping trashy lyrics is neither masculine or feminine.

Frankly, it sounds like you’re pissed these women aren’t delicate and innocent. Which, hey, tons of men aren’t a wholesome masculine themselves, so i’m not sure you have much to criticize here if you wanna see it from a masculine v feminine pov - if you wanna talk about the degradation of culture, regardless of gender, then you may have a talking point.

There are tons of feminine women out there, even women who fit a more pseudo-traditional image of femininity than 10 years ago - if all you’re seeing is vulgar street-ish women, you’re flat out looking in the wrong places cause frankly, i’m seeing all kinds of women in person, online, etc

Comeino · 2024-02-13T16:49:30+00:00

can you imagine if straight men began acting exceedingly feminine

As a woman, please fucking do. There is nothing hotter than a guy secure in his masculinity to dare to be cute and adored. The gays can keep the 6 pack ripped macho dudes

-Shes-A-Carnival · 2024-02-13T17:40:30+00:00

why should women cater to the male gaze or male desire for inferior behavior in women. like whats in it for them

NJFlowerchild · 2024-02-13T16:31:15+00:00

If you voice your displeasure with this you get met with “it’s 2024 no one cares what men want” or “men going out of their way to reject women who don’t know they exist.” It’s really gotten silly,

Okay, and? Women aren't trying to be sexy for you. Doesn't matter if you don't like it. They don't exist for random men.

It’s really gotten silly, can you imagine if straight men began acting exceedingly feminine and derided women for finding it unappealing?

There are women that bitch about it. Okay, and? Do those men look worried? Do those women look worried? Neither of them are out here worrying about people they don't want.

Good_Result2787 · 2024-02-13T16:43:24+00:00

I've always had a little chuckle at people who think saying "bruh" is inherently masculine . Or that speaking vulgarly is masculine .

They need to meet more "working-class" women. Or at least read about them.

Women have always been afforded more leeway to dress androgynously than men. That is slowly changing, but it is something they've had far longer than men nonetheless.

My grandmother once expressed grave concern that some 8-year-old boy occasionally liked to play dress-up. I asked her if she thought it was scandalous that her similarly aged granddaughters often wore slacks. But of course, she found the suggestion ridiculous.

Sharp_Engineering379 · 2024-02-13T16:43:31+00:00

Hate to break it to you, OP, but women have other reasons to live other than male validation.

operajunkie · 2024-02-13T16:53:02+00:00

Imagine for a moment that women are individual people who don’t care what every man on the planet thinks

Slyfer_Seven · 2024-02-13T16:43:14+00:00

Women are changing in an unattractive way, but at the same time guys are still simping over them?

Yeah ok.

Seems like the guys who don't find them attractive are failing to adapt and being biologically excluded, which is by design and perfectly in line with evolutionary biology...

Opening_Tell9388 · 2024-02-13T16:54:06+00:00

Gender and gender norms are sociological. Not biological. Biologically we haven't evolved much. Our society has changed extensively.

Also, times have changed. Most people don't need to hunt for their food or defend their families / tribes from being prey. There is absolutely no need for the archaic old gender roles. There are very lucrative jobs that everyone can do. It's more about brain now. Women have birth control, they can vote, buy groceries, pay bills, etc. Not like we have to wrestle crocs every day.

Also, our economy boomed because of it and you will see it in every industrialized country. Women start joining the work force. It's a sign of progress.

It’s really gotten silly, can you imagine if straight men began acting exceedingly feminine and derided women for finding it unappealing?

This literally has happened. Most men can't even change their own oil filters let a lone change a tire. We take care of our skin, care about what we wear, diet, etc. We have taken on a lot of feminine traits. Especially from being from a very machismo family. I have way different habits than my grandfather did.

ComfortableJeans · 2024-02-13T17:18:13+00:00

Tom boy is best girl, fuckin' fight me.

Financial_Leave4411 · 2024-02-13T16:41:14+00:00

Women have to become the men they desire because the men they desire don’t exist anymore. That’s why women are coming across as more masculine it’s because they have to be to survive and have the lifestyle they want.

Also if men don’t like more masculine women then just go for the more feminine ones. While there is not as many of them men can still stop wasting their time complaining about the women that they’re not interested in and spend their time more wisely going after the women they actually want.

ThatLeval · 2024-02-13T17:02:10+00:00

The thing that destroys the foundation of your whole argument is that different cultures find different things attractive,there tends to be similarities but there are differences. What attracted a Man in Ireland 400 years ago wouldn't be the same thing that attracted a Man in China 400 years ago

Sorcha16 · 2024-02-13T17:04:05+00:00

The short hair cuts are not new but the way they wear them paired with their androgynous style of dress

It's been paired since the flapper girl era. Men were allowed to dress effeminatly not long before in the Macaroni era. Womens fashion turning more masculine started with the victorians where masculine elements were introduced to women's clothing like cycling trousers. The flapper girl era as shown by Marlene Dietrich is when it became a trend.

howdoiw0rkthisthing · 2024-02-13T17:38:49+00:00

At some point I’m going to make a post about the work of Joseph Campbell, Merlin Stone, and others that makes a strong case for early matriarchal or at least matrilineal societies in the Middle East. Because every time the naturalistic/evopsych conversation comes up, I’m less and less sure that patriarchy is the way things were forever and ever until the 20th century.

EulenWatcher · 2024-02-13T18:09:52+00:00

What do you expect women to do and why? You can complain, sure, it doesn’t mean other people will take your complaints seriously or care about it.

dishonouronmycow · 2024-02-13T16:29:21+00:00

If it were natural people wouldn’t have to be forced into it. Some women are still feminine and others don’t want to be, there’s now the choice for both genders. Men can and do wear skirts and nail polish. I don’t see an issue

Friedrich_Friedson · 2024-02-13T16:46:54+00:00

Women have begun behaving in a way that is completely counterintuitive to evolutionary biology and everything that drives attraction in the opposite sex.

If that's true, that means you should reconsider what you consider about "counterintuitive to evolutionary biology" and how societal superstructure shapes human behaviours.

Some examples of this behavior can be seen in the various social media platforms, with girls saying things like “bruh” and “dude”

Based.

The short hair cuts are not new but the way they wear them paired with their androgynous style of dress has gone overboard. On top of all of this, their brash, aggressive and cocky behavior has far exceeded the “boss bitch” or empowered woman schtick and is now a very boorish, masculine persona.

Yet when men do it that's ok because...?

If you voice your displeasure with this you get met with “it’s 2024 no one cares what men want” or “men going out of their way to reject women who don’t know they exist.”

Based, as everyone should when idiots think they should shape themselves for these idiots instead of what they really want themselves to be.

It’s really gotten silly, can you imagine if straight men began acting exceedingly feminine and derided women for finding it unappealing?

It would be based. Men shouldn't based their personalities on how random women want them to be, but how they want themselves to be.

januaryphilosopher · 2024-02-13T17:05:54+00:00

How is any of this any more unnatural than when men do it? Like I guess rap or short hair weren't really big features of our evolutionary past, but they weren't for men either so there's nothing especially unnatural about women liking it. The only thing making them masculine is the modern social meaning given to it, it used to even be considered masculine to like pink. Femininity is all about self restraint and decoration which is hardly natural and I promise you cave women wouldn't be shaving their legs or remembering their table manners. They would've been much more aggressive prior to this level of civilisation generally and they're still way behind men in this area, they get told off for being bitches if they so much as stand up for themselves (yet the person doing the telling off is never a bitch, if he's a man at least).

TermAggravating8043 · 2024-02-13T17:11:40+00:00

And is anything wrong with that?

These masculine woman are still carrying on with life not really caring what strangers think of them. If it doesn’t affect you, then it’s none of your business

WANT_SOME_HAM · 2024-02-13T17:34:09+00:00

.....so wait, they are, all at once:

1) Not attracted to these women you're saying have amorphous, vaguely defined "masculine traits", such as saying bruh or having a LinkedIn profile.

2) Absolutely desperate to have sex with these women they are not attracted to.

Has it ever occurred to you that maybe most men just don't give a shit about these things and you're just assuming everyone else thinks like you because you don't get out enough?

volleyballbeach · 2024-02-13T18:28:46+00:00

Bruh and dude are modern terms, not counter to evolutionary biology.

derided women for finding it unappealing

Men are not being derided for what they find unappealing, rather for the rants like this they post on Reddit

Acaciduh · 2024-02-13T16:41:37+00:00

You’re welcome to just not date those women? I’m not sure what there is to debate and this is more a rant.

Saying colloquialisms like dude and bruh are masculine? Get a grip. Every generation has slang this is not a new concept. There’s also always been men like you that have scoffed at women who defied “traditional” gender norms and said they were no longer being “proper ladies”. In the 20’s flappers were called masculine whores, 60’s those dirty hippies. Goth women, punk rock women, etc. etc.

The great news is again you are not forced to date any of them. Find your sweet trad wife and the women who want other things can go on living life not worried about what men may they don’t even want to date think.

StupidThrowaway3783 · 2024-02-13T17:04:13+00:00

Why do all of y'all want super submissive, feminine wives? It's just another thing you gotta take care of in your life. I want my wife to be confident and dominant enough to protect herself and our kids if need be, and put other ppl's wives in their place.

Literal_Jesus_ · 2024-02-13T16:31:35+00:00

Have you considered that these are women that you’re simply not compatible with?

I abhor the way many men behave/act/move through the world. Look at me just not giving those men my number or going on dates with them

Havel68 · 2024-02-13T17:45:52+00:00

People, including traits you consider as "feminine" are largely shaped by culture, the culture changes and people change, its as simple as that.

shockingly_bored · 2024-02-13T16:31:40+00:00

And yet they don't care mate

Kind-Dare7852 · 2024-02-13T16:22:44+00:00

Some examples of this behavior can be seen in the various social media platforms, with girls saying things like “bruh” and “dude” in every sentence or rapping along to trashy, vulgar lyrics. The short hair cuts are not new but the way they wear them paired with their androgynous style of dress has gone overboard. On top of all of this, their brash, aggressive and cocky behavior has far exceeded the “boss bitch” or empowered woman schtick and is now a very boorish, masculine persona.

Have you seen any of this in real life?

TSquaredRecovers · 2024-02-13T17:30:32+00:00

Here’s a novel idea: Don’t date those women you don’t like. If you don’t like the way certain women behave, how they dress, or what they say, the solution is simple: Don’t pursue them for dates.

But you have zero right to dictate what those women do with their lives. ZERO right.

AcephalicDude · 2024-02-13T17:58:02+00:00

This post is like a bingo card of bad evopsych takes and hilarious "get off my lawn" reactions.

NiceTrybutIdc · 2024-02-13T16:52:53+00:00

Men aren't providing or even commiting anymore bc of porn.

Commercial_Tea_8185 · 2024-02-13T20:10:09+00:00

Bruh, maybe all humans regardless of gender are actually more similar thank you think, and that women have never been this perfectly little porcelain doll of performed perfect dainty femininity. Also bro, human expression is genderless.

These notions if performed gender ideology bro have been suffocating women for a very long time dude. As women we havent been allowed to do any if the same career or academic based lines if work bro. And now, dude, womens true gender expression is reaching an equilibrium, bro, and now youre actually just seeing is what women have always been, bruh, but we were never allowed to express in the past bro

waffleznstuff30 · 2024-02-13T20:50:11+00:00

Evolutionary psychology is a lot of speculative nonsense.

The thing is feminity and identifying as feminine has nothing to do with men. Absolutely nothing. We don't have performative feminity. And when we did it was exactly that performance it was a character of what is feminine through the male gaze. I am feminine I like being a woman. I am not nurturing I do not want children I find kids gross and annoying. And wouldn't want one for myself. I am independent. But I am still a woman?

We are human beings. Human beings can be whoever and whatever they want. I think men should stop with performative masculinity and focusing on what makes a mans man and instead identify with what they want and who they want to be?

Soloandthewookiee · 2024-02-13T16:35:40+00:00

Women have begun behaving in a way that is completely counterintuitive to evolutionary biology

Like what?

MiddleZealousideal89 · 2024-02-13T17:00:38+00:00

Dunno dude, my short-haired 5'10'' ass has never had any problems pulling guys who were into that. You ever consider that these women just aren't trying to please men, and are perfectly fine with a smaller subset of men being into them? Quality over quantity kinda deal. Not everyone is going to be your cup of tea, and that's okay.

saptarshi656 · 2024-02-13T16:50:56+00:00

I thought it would be about how generally masculine traits, which are actually harmful, such as aggressiveness, lack of empathy, and selfishness are being glorified flas requirements for success in the corporate world and how women are being told to inculcate these traits rather than men being told to leave them.

But it turned out to be about hair and dresses and "booh! feminism bad".

krackedy · 2024-02-13T16:34:44+00:00

I kind of like women like that.

Safinated · 2024-02-13T16:32:35+00:00

Aww, I thought you were going in a new, different direction, but it’s just your old rant on slang

https://np.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/s/WUFpzGpJPC

Granted, it is one of your lesser known hits, so I’ll give you half-credit for that, my dude

Obvious_Smoke3633 · 2024-02-13T17:21:24+00:00

Men do act extremely feminine. We don't have to imagine it. They want to split bills 50/50 and dates, too. They don't know how to fix anything, build anything, and sit around playing video games instead of providing or building. Testosterone levels are their lowest ever on average. Overweight, unmotivated, living with their parents, wanting to be chased by women, crying online about women. All very feminine traits. I know men with bigger breasts than me, too. Oh and let's not forget their online jerking off to videos of other men fucking women. Almost homosexual. Cucking yourself to porn is pretty feminine in my opinion.

apresonly · 2024-02-13T17:40:09+00:00

yeah women couldn't rely on men to provide for them so women had to become providers

its not rocket science

there are plenty of single, feminine women since men say they don't care about looks very much.

icounternonsense · 2024-02-13T18:47:31+00:00

I don't know if I agree with your assessment of any of that, but I do agree that women (mostly of the western variety, anyway) are exhibiting more masculine traits. This might partially explain why men aren't pursuing relationships nearly as often anymore (and engaging in less sex than ever).

wtknight · 2024-02-13T16:57:07+00:00

Women have begun behaving in a way that is completely counterintuitive to evolutionary biology and everything that drives attraction in the opposite sex.

I don’t think that it’s counterintuitive for women to want power. Then they can better dictate the terms in which sex happens in order to make it more advantageous to them and their potential offspring. Men don’t have as much of a choice in the matter as they seemingly need to have sex with women, or else they wouldn’t be complaining about what women do so much on subs like this one.

Defundisraelnow · 2024-02-13T18:59:26+00:00

If you don't like it don't look at them. People can do what they want.

Quiet_Firefighter_65 · 2024-02-13T18:22:59+00:00

I mean, I definitely think there's behaviours common in women now that most men find unattractive and just put up with, but none of the stuff you say qualifies as that imo. Who finds a woman less attractive for saying 'bruh'?

SurelyWoo · 2024-02-13T18:50:49+00:00

I agree.

Back in the day, brash insecure men were often described as suffering from "small man syndrome"--attempting to use brashness as a substitute for capability. Women are following a similar pattern. While brash men are eventually corrected by being called out (an ass-whoopin' provides useful feedback for self-adjustment), society generally frowns upon seeing a woman brought down a notch. Many live in a Disney-induced bubble.

On the other hand, men have also become feminized. How many young men exude stoic resolve, build things, or can fight when it is necessary? Masculinity is no longer encouraged or shamed out of them, leaving soft, video game and porn obsessed man-boys. Why would any woman be impressed or think that manliness is difficult, give that it currently has such a low bar?

If women want to say "bruh" and strut around like miniature men, that's their business, and I want to live in a society that allows this freedom, but each man is also free to be repulsed by this. Speak up if you don't like it (women certainly do), but more importantly, stop caring so such much about what society thinks and go build something.

izoldetales · 2024-02-13T18:54:05+00:00

It's because of emotional manipulation . For men , going from masculine traits to " evil " traits like narcissism wasn't stopped by power , it was stopped by emotional manipulation . People just suddenly started saying words they don't even understand like " Real strength comes with humblness " or " Real men don't manipulate women into sex " , it was done by giving everyone except men the right to define what is a man . Women won't get the same treatment since what they do doesn't hurt the system and only hurt men . It's well known that women would stand with each other and wouldn't even dare to criticize other women . For men it's different , they were never raised to help or protect each others , HELL they were probably raised to hurt each others to prove their masculinity to women . It's just a question of morals now!! ARE WOMEN REALLY THE NICE PEOPLE OR IT WAS JUST AN ACT SINCE THEY COULDN'T TAKE CARE OF THEMSELVES AND NEEDED MEN ?!

And let's not forget about men who would take WOMEN'S side in every situation. I remember seeing a Tiktok about how men should give without expecting nothing from WOMEN but he's next one was to never give men anything until he invest in you , and I was like what the f is wrong with him but this is just how men act this day . Which actually bring the question , WERE HIGH VALUE WRONG ABOUT ONLY WAMTING SEX FROM WOMEN CAUSE AS YOU JUAT SAID THEY HAVE UNAPPEALING PERSONALLY NOW.

I'm really interested how women would answer when a man say he only want sex from women since women already don't want to appeal to him

Crimson-Pilled · 2024-02-13T17:13:01+00:00

Women were always like this. Now that their physical and social environment no longer pressures them to behave, they do what they want - act in selfish, grotesque ways

Reasonable_Style8214 · 2024-02-13T16:27:45+00:00

Most men are not masculine and by extension most women are not feminine. All due to failing marriages and single parent households. But the few masculine guys that are left have no issue finding and attracting a feminine woman so there's that at least.

SeveralAcorns · 2024-02-13T19:01:56+00:00

Women have begun behaving in a way that is completely counterintuitive to evolutionary biology

I don't know about you, i don't see men not being attracted to women anywhere. Whats is unattractive to the other sex is whining on online forums like you do. Why do you act so completely counterintuitive to evolutionary biology and portray yourself as weak, whiney and not in charge of your own situation?

Critical_Corner_1859 · 2024-02-13T20:17:46+00:00

Masculine men put women in their feminine energy and role. The masculine LEADS. It all starts and ends with men.

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No-Rough-7390 · 2024-02-13T17:03:57+00:00

To kind of go beyond OPs point, there’s an element I thought about that by making society as androgynous as possible, you do weaken the need for community and make most people inherently more susceptible to manipulation/control. We used to be a slave to biology, but now it’s kind of becoming something else.

harmonica2 · 2024-02-13T17:13:02+00:00

It's not just women becoming more masculine it's also men becoming more feminine as well which women do not like. Both sides are wanting to become like each other and that is turning both sides off.

Werevulvi · 2024-02-13T18:34:40+00:00

I would think you have a point if the reason this annoys you is because said type of women also demand men to date them, or demand men to stop preferring femininity in a partner. If that's what you meant, then I'd agree, it's completely unreasonable to demand dates from people who don't like what you have to offer, and yes I see this happen a lot. Imo you either adapt to what other people want you to be like, or you only date people who genuinely like what you like being. Ie either get feminine, or stick to dating men who like masc women. It's that simple. You can't have it both ways, that's ridiculous.

The problem with those women is them acting entitled to men's bodies (yes I said that, it's equally creepy no matter which gender does it) not in how they choose to dress or wear their hair, or what lingo they use. If you're not attracted to them, you have no obligation to date them. That is your right to bodily autonomy and consent.

So that same sentiment goes for you too. You can't demand from masculine women to be more feminine because that's what you like in women. Just go for feminine women instead and leave the masculine ones alone. They still exist. Notably masculine women are still relatively rare, compared to women who follow trends and social norms expected of women in modern society. Women not being what you like in them is not their responsibility. What is their responsibility is to not force men to change their preferences. There's nothing wrong with having preferences for normative gender roles, but there's also nothing wrong with being gender non-conforming. These two things can co-exist. We just have to realize that we'll never be everyone's cup of tea.

I say that because I'm a masculine woman (and like I even identify that way because it's an important part of my personality) ie I wear mostly men's clothes, don't wear makeup, don't shave my legs or armpits, I sit in a wide stance, I hate cooking and cleaning and would much rather work my ass into an early grave, I do woodworking, go to the gym, play war video games, etc, and I don't go up to men who only like feminine women expecting them to change their preferences for me. I have no trouble with men who only like fem women, some of my friends even are like that, and I respect their right to think my ass is ugly. I'm totally chill with sticking to looking for men who are actually attracted to masc traits in women. And yes these men exist. They're a bit rarer, but that's fine with me. I only need one man anyway, not five hundred thousand.

Because I don't live for men's pleasure. Even if I may one day have an individual man whose pleasure is greatly important to me. I see no reason to be whatever random shit the average man wants in a woman, beyond the absolute basics like... I dunno, have tits and vagina. Because my pleasure, happiness and dreams matter too. And it's fine that I'm not compatible with all or even most men.

But that said I think men's pleasure, happiness and dreams matter. Just not more than my own. So I think we can make this fair and just by simply letting people act and dress however they're comfortable, but also not try to change other people's preferences, or crossing other people's boundaries. And yes, I think women in general should get better at respecting men's bodily autonomy and consent. This I think would also be a social change much easier to make (although it might still take a few decades) than to try to force everyone into boxes of what kinda clothes, hobbies, hairstyles, etc they should have.

And as for your last sentence, personally I think feminine men can be just as hot as masculine men, so I don't actually care what a good-looking, sweet and kind man is wearing, likes doing for hobbies, if he's a hairdresser or a car mechanic, has long or short hair, etc. I can vibe with either as long as he's fine with me being how I am as a person, and as long as we have the same values, etc. So I wouldn't mind a sudden surge of feminine men wanting to date women, but yes regardless of gender, I don't think anyone is entitled to access to other people's bodies.

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