"Visceral" attraction is not necessary for a good LTR

Ohms2North · 2022-03-11T15:22:07+00:00

The last thing my wife said to me before we ended it after 20 years together and two kids was “I’ve never been attracted to you and I don’t think I ever will be”

Matt_Door · 2022-03-11T13:27:12+00:00

Reasonable people will expect it to wane over time as the honey moon phase ends, that’s normal. It should be there in the initial attraction phase as an indication for a suitable LTR.

midwesternMD · 2022-03-11T13:57:56+00:00

Disagree. Visceral attraction is that basic in-your-gut attraction. That mild attraction you describe is visceral. It’s just not as strong as “Chad-level” visceral. But it’s there, and the other qualities of a man/the relationship are what we believe can amplify that visceral attraction.

I think it’s more along the lines of us (men) wanting the woman we’re dating to see us as her chad. If I’m happily in a relationship, my attraction is really reserved for my partner. I can look at another attractive woman and acknowledge that she’s attractive, but it would take some conscious effort to allow myself to do/think much more than that. My partner is basically a female “chad” to me. I don’t think it’s outrageous to desire a partner who also feels that way about us.

geometersbane · 2022-03-11T14:01:53+00:00

It is absolutely paramount. Once you've experienced simping from women, you'll know.

reLincolnX · 2022-03-11T14:32:22+00:00

Of course, attraction matters, you don't want to end up in a dead bedroom situation but as long as she treats you well and you have sex regurlarly, I don't see the problem with a partner being only mildly attracted to you.

If she is mildly attracted to you she won't have sex regularly with you.

You're just wrong here and are gaslighting.

King_D0ng · 2022-03-11T13:51:38+00:00

I don't think I'll ever understand how women can love, marry, and have children with men they never feel visceral attraction to. Like I'm not expecting average women to be viscerally attracted to every average man, just the man she loves. Also not like she has to constantly feel this level of sexual attraction, just on occasion would be reasonable enough. If average men can feel this type of sexual attraction to average women, why can't women feel the same to average men that they also love and want to spend the rest of their lives with.

shinzo123123 · 2022-03-11T14:20:06+00:00

This works both ways. Your wife doesn't need to be hot.

Stunning-Potato-1984 · 2022-03-11T13:20:53+00:00

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Spread-Em-Plz · 2022-03-11T12:43:47+00:00

Girls can have a personal taste for you even if you're not Chad

Men want their girl to have this personal taste for them

Like, I'm 99% sure of this unless I'm Chad secretly

wtknight · 2022-03-11T13:27:44+00:00

I think what’s important is communication if a woman isn’t viscerally attracted to a man in order to discover the reason why. If it’s because he’s let himself go, then that’s a good sign that he needs to improve himself. If she’s just losing libido because she’s aging, then it’s probably not such a big deal.

But if it’s because she’s just finding other men more attractive, then it’s a huge deal and a sign of future branch swinging. So I definitely disagree with your CMV, because the prospect of branch swinging is not good for maintaining a LTR.

2022-03-11T16:02:20+00:00

Good luck not getting cheated on if your partner isn't viscerally attracted to you.

BoogersAndSugar · 2022-03-12T12:57:27+00:00

> The problem with these guys is that most of them look average at best and yet they expect their partners to see them as the Chad that they are NOT, so they are asking for the impossible.

More and more of those same guys are recognizing this and would rather stay single.

januaryphilosopher · 2022-03-11T13:00:05+00:00

I think that raw lust can and should can happen in an LTR, but it isn't necessarily based on looks. You're not only mildly attracted to someone just because you are attracted to different aspects of them than looks. Your partner can see you as insanely hot even if they weren't overcome with lust the moment they met you. If you're not both more attracted to each other now than you were with each other or anyone else at first glance, your relationship is probably doomed.

Midnightchickover · 2022-03-11T15:24:03+00:00

My bf does not look like the stereotypical "Chad", but I am most definitely extremely viscerally attracted to him.

Idk, this is actually something I can pretty much agree on with the guys who want this. I can understand it.. I felt like I'd been hit by a fucking truck of mad attraction when I was falling for my bf, so if it turned out that he didn't actually feel the same about me, it'd feel a bit crappy tbh.

I've actually been in those kinds of relationship before - where I was the one who felt more. It feels one-sided.

back_in_blyat · 2022-03-11T18:01:29+00:00

It isn't necessary if you lack the baseline self respect to be indefinitely tethered to someone that, by your own words, they are settling for in one major area. Have you been in a relationship involving both scenarios? Having dated girls that were attracted primarily to my personality (pre trp chubby beta me) vs dating girls attracted to me viscerally as well as as a person I can safely say the two scenarios are worlds apart.

Illustrious_Wish_383 · 2022-03-11T13:36:05+00:00

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Loose-Mixture-399 · 2022-03-11T13:53:06+00:00

I disagree hence why I end things with women who ever include any sort of statement in a conversation which resembles "I usually go for..." or "I like you even though you're not really my type." I don't like the idea of someone having to do a lot of thinking for attraction or sex.

Fit-Faithlessness149 · 2022-03-11T14:18:17+00:00

Having been in a relationship where there was almost instant attraction and constant lust for each other, it's really the only way to go. Neither one of us are 10s but to each other we are.

mikey152 · 2022-03-11T14:18:38+00:00

The long arcs of time and experience prove this wrong.

What you advocate for produces a relationship where the woman gets everything she wants, and the man gets none of what he wants. That's a recipe for grinding failure.

The man is in this for sex and ownership of his own little empire. I know, I know, people don't like it when we actually talk about what men want, but goddammit, someone's gotta do it. Men are there for sex and so they can have something to call their own. When you have no visceral sexual attraction, the woman is there to use him. She's not there because she wants him. She's there because she's USING him. She's manipulating, exploiting, and taking advantage of him.

That always leads to the woman getting the gold mine; and the man getting the shaft. That always leads to her getting everything, and him getting nothing. That always leads to the end of the LTR in divorce court where the man is bound, gagged, and bent over counsel table while the judge, the lawyers, the ex, and the bailiff run a train on him.

This is why you see more and more men walking away. Men don't expect to be viewed as Chad. They expect to be with someone who actually wants to be there. If they can't have that, it's better to be alone.

wtknight · 2022-03-11T12:44:06+00:00

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iamwhoiam101101110 · 2022-03-11T13:42:55+00:00

(The problem with these guys is that most of them look average at best
and yet they expect their partners to see them as the Chad that they are
NOT, so they are asking for the impossible).

The real problem, is girls having casual lustful , primal sex with Chad/s way above their looksmatch.. Then, having nice comfortable sex with their LTR who is at their level.

That's what guys don't like and many women on here would not like if it was the opposite reality. If men could get easy sex with women, way above them, yet women could only have sex with their looksmatch at best and not easy to get at all.

Most women don't get this, because they don't have to. Not their problem.

You get into a LTR and things get comfortable and the sex wanes (frequency and quality) and what do you think they guys thinking about?

Makes perfect sense, but girls don't want to think about it, it's not like you can go back and change things, even if you wanted to. Just put the hamster to work and convince yourself, physical attraction is not that important, don't think about those past good times and so on.

Like all those songs about , all I see when I look at you is him and so on, are sometimes kinda real aren't they?

I've seen in my social circle and know young woman today that are trying to convince themselves that their current LTR is (better) than the hot guy they were shortly with. I've seen some of those guys and , not even close and you can see the girls, trying to convince others like me that he's a (great guy), and so on. Why is she trying so hard to convince me? Because She knows I saw the other guy. He was an 8-9, the current guy is a 6.

The 8-9 guys was via a hookup, the 6 guy was definitely not a hookup. Interesting, right?

Look, the base issue is, it's probably not a healthy thing for people to be having casual sex with partners way above them. It very likely causes problems. Does it always? No, only pure science is exact.

Yup, go downvote me, tell me it doesn't matter. Sorry, I've seen way too much, I'm old, I'm on here to learn and help my kids with current day sexual strategy dating crap, and not going off feelings. I'm going off of actual experience and observation.

IMendicantBias · 2022-03-11T18:49:35+00:00

women seem to really struggle with the idea of men wanting to be desired instead of “ he’s ok “.

Easteuroblondie · 2022-03-12T04:07:47+00:00

I completely agree with this. A key concept in marketing is that our brains have a natural affinity toward the familiar, whether or not it’s good for us. So a big part of what we understand as the spark is actually just us picking up on something we recognize, often subconsciously. That’s why people get stuck in patterns and are continuously attracted to the same kind of toxicity.

So people who have bad relationship patterns would be wise to really question their gut attractions and try to explore new types of people that they build attraction with. Starting points of buildable attraction include a shared sense of humor, admiration, or someone you enjoy spending time with.

Also, directionally, it’s better to grow attracted to someone (through repeat exposure, which is why it’s so common for coworkers and people who spend a lot of time together to fall in love) than to follow an instant attraction at which point, the relationship is inherently on a downward trajectory from the get go

alexaxl · 2022-03-12T05:03:05+00:00

Forget guys.

Even half a second of possibility of females male partner finding another female attractive makes them jittery.

“Am I fat” Do I look fat? Are my hips too wide?

Guess who asks these questions more?

Humans are like that - even Pre Disney.

It’s probably one of the reasons why old school ideas around not having had too many partners makes sense now - too much comparison between choices = unable have contentment.

Essentially - pair bonding is affected.

Anything over stimulated will leave you numb to further signals.

Try having a lovely mango or strawberry or any fruit after a box full of sugary confectionery.

You won’t be able to taste the fruit.

Saturation and over saturation of human sensory experience clouds cognition.

helloguy4005 · 2022-03-11T14:26:55+00:00

I was just about to post something about the female side of the black pill as it's no longer just a fringe topic.

This concept of men wanting to be Chad is pretty much the reflection of it. A lot of people get the idea that men only care about one thing and the only reason why he would go out of his way to make something of himself is because he is NOT Chad. This is definitely true in many cases but not always.

Likewise a woman can have intense feelings for a guy while being aware that he is not Chad. Perhaps she sees potential in him as a late bloomer and wants to lock him down early. Perhaps this late bloomer guy can give her the whole package. Perhaps her love is blind.

Most men do not realize this and therefore why they want to be a Chad.

KFC_Fleshlight · 2022-03-11T14:37:08+00:00

somebody can look average and you still wanna rip their clothes off lmao

Barely-moral · 2022-03-11T13:10:58+00:00

It is a cost/benefit analysis.

Given the amount of time and effort I need to put to become attractive I want something worth the pain in return.

A satisfying sex life is part of it. It is hard for me to have a satisfying sex life if my partner is not really into me. It is possible, people can do things out of obligation and duty and do them well. It's just that women are less likely to do that. Especially when sex is involved.

afkawayrn · 2022-03-11T13:54:00+00:00

Because all of the guys like me who have had women literally worship the ground you walk on, will absolutely refuse to not be with some one who also does the same. And I will continue to preach to men who are doing the most for these women who do the least for them.

There is literally a women out there for every man, every man can be Chad thundercock for a women. But if you settled you won’t ever find that. I didn’t have my first girlfriend that was crazy about me till I was 28. But once you have one of those relationships.. you won’t ever accept any thing less again.

It’s the same reason why FDS girls have the attitude they have, they slept with one guy who was high value and now that’s all they want. They got a taste of that life and they refuse anything less.

The difference is at the highest end of dating men have all the power, not the women.

gimpgirl555 · 2022-03-11T12:51:50+00:00

They expect relationships to live up to some type of Disney/porn fantasy.

Yes? Men are not obligated to have relationships with women. If they don't get the porn-fantasy lifestyle, then what's in it for them?

For example I get commitment, kids, and to be a housewife. The least I can do is to look hot and provide some depraved sex. Otherwise my man would be better off without me.

The problem with these guys is that most of them look average at best and yet they expect their partners to see them as the Chad that they are NOT, so they are asking for the impossible.

If that's impossible then the men need to move on. Friendly reminder that the customer is always right.

lavishrabbit6009 · 2022-03-11T19:40:13+00:00

Meh, it's not about visceral attraction, it's about the knowledge of knowing someone else got more out of her sexuality (more frequent sex, willingness to engage in more kinks/ideas, etc...) without having to put a fraction as much effort as the LTR guy did.

There is no right way for a man to ask for more sexuality. It's seen as pervasive , predatory, and shameful to even want it naturally. The only way a guy can get access to the sexuality he really wants is by being the guy that naturally compels a woman to want to have sex with him. Anything else is just a chore for a woman, and they will take any opportunity to not uphold that obligation. It's understandable tbh, but for a lot of men, the appeal for an LTR isn't there.

trail22 · 2022-03-11T18:20:54+00:00

Do you know what its like to approach flirt with and ask out a women you are not physically attracted to?

Its different if someone I kinda knew who I had no physical attraction said they might be interested and asked me to go out for coffee. Saying yes to that is different then asking out someone you have no visceral attraction to.

catchtowards12345 · 2022-03-11T12:58:40+00:00

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TheJim66 · 2022-03-11T13:41:43+00:00

Nope

Midnightchickover · 2022-03-11T18:05:34+00:00

-- They are certain cars that people love that I don't like. BMW, Mercedes, or Ferraris, I'm not crazy about any of those brands of cars. Doesn't mean they are ugly, bad cars. Doesn't mean I hate them, I think they have some awesome models. THough, I don't personally want one.

--- There are certain foods, I like to eat, and prepare a certain way. Those same foods are not liked by other people, or they may not like the way I prepare it. It doesn't make those people bad or less classy. They just don't prefer that type of food.

---There are certain people who like certain types of pets, like cats or dogs. There are people who like snakes or other reptiles (lizards, turtles). There are some people who like ferrets, badgers, or meerkats. Some like rabbits. Others like birds. Some people don't prefer any pets at all. A cat lover doesn't mean they hate every other species of animal I name, they just prefer cats.

--How come this is so hard to understand with people. We are planet of 7 billion individuals, I'm pretty sure they don't all like exactly the same things or expect the same things of a relationship. So, you have a group of 20 billionaire Chads, if someone ask I could have anyone of them. Which one will I pick? I say none, because I don't know them or are attracted to them. How can I love or be romantic with someone I don't know? Other women may jump at that chance without hesitation, but that's not really what I would consider for a relationship or even casual sex. I'm demi-, so I honestly can't speak for the other people. I'd reckon it'd be similar and different amongst hetero, bi, same-sex, or ace people. I mean there are men who seem like they would choose one of the 20 Chads, because they cannot seem to stop talking Chad(s). I'd assume they would like to choose that type of guy for themselves or if they were women, because for some of them that would be "...too gay." Because, they clearly like those type of guys and want to force them onto every single woman on the planet.

Some users on PPD have a Tu quoque fallacy. "Well, I would do it, my friends would do it, my wife would do it, so that means you would, too." No, I don't. "Well, research says that 35%-90% of women like a Chad." Your point being in regards to me, or other women who don't.

currently_confused50 · 2022-03-11T14:19:23+00:00

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2022-03-11T14:42:48+00:00

Why settle (either direction)? No one needs to be in a relationship

Poly_frolicher · 2022-03-11T15:03:02+00:00

The advice columnist I read just said the same basic thing: Physical attraction and sexual chemistry are NOT what to base a relationship on. Most women know this and try to find a mate who they love and can be in true relationship with. Some physical attraction is necessary to a good marriage or LTR, but is NOT the primary necessity. TRP men don’t seem to care about that. They only seem to want to be “the best I’ve ever had” in the bedroom. I would never marry the guys who I’ve considered “best” because of other basic incompatibilities. It’s not “settling.” It’s seeking relationship.

Return_of_Hoppetar · 2022-03-11T18:28:45+00:00

I mostly agree with this, but I think you're missing one point, which is that not being "viscerally" attracted to someone does NOT mean that you're not, or only mildly (sexually) attracted to them. Right now, we have an amazing example of this in the limelight; look at Mr. Zelensky. I think it will be very hard to make a case for why anyone should be viscerally attracted to him: short, sorta chubby guy in his mid-40s, sad face... and yet he is the hearthrob of women all over the world right now (probably only women of a certain age, probably not 18 year olds, but who knows). We aren't mildly attracted to him just because he isn't The Rock. The attraction is real. I can only imagine that it is this kind of attraction that makes 20-something models sleep with Mick Jagger, or make women write love letters to Charles Manson, an elderly, confused man with a svastika-shaped scar on his forehead. Fortunately I'm old enough to have "wizened up" on how my the attraction part of the brain works, so it can't make me do anything silly. But the attraction is real. Usually it goes for badboys (real or feigned); this time it went for a hero - but in any case, it's real, and it doesn't have to be for a 25-year-old's flawless body.

But I completely agree that a normal, functional relationship does not depend on whether your partner considers you the epitome of sexiness, and few perfectly well functioning couples would say that they are the most purely sexually attractive people to each other. That's an impossible ask.

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CryptographerFew1323 · 2022-03-11T13:58:28+00:00

I think a woman can feel “raw primal lust” for her partner for other reasons as well, for example when he mentally stimulates her, when he does as a high quality man does. That is so insanely attractive. You can look average, above or below average, the woman is with you for a reason. Your looks for a lot of women are not the main thing. You could look above average but that won’t cut it for a woman that is turned on by a mans behavior.

ingenjor · 2022-03-11T15:05:02+00:00

It's because you often read: "My husband isn't the most conventionally attractive man, but in my eyes he is incredibly attractive. I can't get enough of him." Some guys interpret that as if the visceral attraction is real, even if they are not conventionally attractive and just meet the right partner for them.

sarkington · 2022-03-11T15:37:27+00:00

No, but reasonable expectations are. Including that your partner is a decent human

Striking-Shopping796 · 2022-03-11T16:45:09+00:00

I don't think you're wrong, but it still doesn't feel good to think your partner is not that attracted to you. I don't think a woman would feel happy if their partner was only mildly attracted to them either. Everyone liked too feel desired and special.

ogsimpology · 2022-03-11T16:49:33+00:00

I am not my partners ideal choice regarding looks.

That's LITERALLY the majority of couples out there. You'd probably be even more surprised how MANY happy couples aren't each others first body type preference. I'd say it's a majority.

But when you come to love that person, that attraction rises even beyond what your attraction would be to a random person with an ideal body to your liking.

meteorness123 · 2022-03-11T17:19:17+00:00

As somebody who's been "lusted" over as a man, I can't help but not give a shit anymore. I want to be liked for my personality. All the kind of relationships that I've witnessed that are based on personality seem to last. Relationships that are based on lust, passion whatever tend to go south quick. It's like all the spiritual teachings of the last few thousand years were right from the get-go: Shallowness does not last.

2022-03-11T17:27:33+00:00

Who are the men who complain about this? They need to change their tampon if they're so worried about womens primal urges like huh? it's pretty much known that women are not visual like men are...

poppy_blu · 2022-03-11T17:49:54+00:00

2 things that need to be considered in the context of this discussion:

sex drives do vary from person to person. The mindset of sexually frustrated 20 something men tends to dominate all of these conversations but the truth is most adults in relationships are not thinking about how much they want sex with hot people 24/7.
people in love tend to view their SO through a different lens. Look up wife goggles.

That said i don’t disagree when people say you should make an effort to remain relatively attractive to your partner. You don’t have to look like a supermodel but staying fit, taking care of your body and skin, dressing up sometimes, etc.

2022-03-11T19:02:53+00:00

Imo its all about compromises and most people have to, especially guys.

Girls are able to get away with "not having her shit together", no job, fat, not good looking, but still getting a guy better than that.

But for most, you got comprise. And that may mean the person doesn't have striking good attractive looks

robogart · 2022-03-11T19:24:49+00:00

I don’t think there is a thing as mild attraction. Your either attracted to each other or not. Looks isn’t the only thing that equates to attractions.

jasonology09 · 2022-03-11T20:07:36+00:00

In my experience, no matter how "viscerally attractive" I found my partner in the beginning, the longer the relationship lasted, the more that attraction faded, and became less important. It's not that I stopped finding her attractive, it just stopped being the kind of attraction that sparks mad last.

I'd argue that only those with little or no long-term relationship experience realistically expect that initial "visceral attraction" to last forever.

DXBrigade · 2022-03-11T22:19:48+00:00

“Disney/porn fantasy”?

These are two extraordinarily different fantasies

2022-03-12T01:58:51+00:00

You're right, it's not necessary for a good LTR. Far better if your families can combine lands. Or, maybe you are marrying into royalty. Or maybe you need a green card or citizenship.

That could all work, if you had someone else in your life who felt viscerally attracted to you. If not, good luck. 😂😭

Whynotbebetter · 2022-03-12T02:07:54+00:00

They get insulated for being complimented....? Are these men..... Women? 🤔

Willow-girl · 2022-03-12T04:00:45+00:00

I don't see the problem with a partner being only mildly attracted to you.

I do. That passionate love is the glue that "sticks" you together through the rough spots.

2022-03-12T04:07:13+00:00

Yeah, I somewhat agree, but people feel inequity at a deep, fundamental level. Why wouldn't most men want to inspire lust in their partners? To feel special to them?

"Don't worry that she used to drive a Porsche! She's happy with you, a Ford Fusion, even though you are clearly a downgrade!"

doMEaSOLid_reddit · 2022-03-12T09:23:47+00:00

This post is striking a visceral nerve I can tell you. It's very difficult to talk in person about purple pill subjects. It's good though, and straight to the point. Woes of modern humanity.

Georgist_Muddlehead · 2022-03-12T09:53:32+00:00

I'm surprised if a lot of men expect or demand to be seen this way. Is this something you see IRL, or something you see online?

Loveenglishpeople · 2022-03-12T10:00:19+00:00

I recently asked a guy if he’d rather marry someone beautiful but no action ever, he could only watch never touch, or someone not that pretty, but have a lot of sex. He said he’d rather the pretty one

Hey people be dumb …. What can you do? :(

Title	"Visceral" attraction is not necessary for a good LTR
Author	DXBrigade
Upvotes	107
Comments	343
Date	March 11, 2022 12:39 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/tbp9e7/visceral_attraction_is_not_necessary_for_a_good/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/visceral-attraction-is-not-necessary-for-a-good.1105640 https://theredarchive.com/post/1105640

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