Women justify their biases against men all the time, but men are condemned for doing the same

WilliamWyattD · 2024-03-25T06:06:15+00:00

It's an interesting side point if one gender's complaints are sympathized with a lot more than the other's. It might mean something valid. Or not.

But at the end of the day, expecting that these complaints necessarily should be balanced is a version of the Just World Fallacy. We are the only intelligent animals. We have developed moral and ethical systems that go beyond innate, evolved animal instincts. It would be a miracle of coincidence if our evolved moral systems ended up mapping onto innate gender qualities in such a way that the 'natural' behavior or desires of both genders were considered 100% equally moral.

Basically, you have to go over the complaints on an individual basis. If female complaints get more traction that doesn't necessarily mean the world is biased; it could also mean the female complaints are more accurate and typical male behavior is worse than typical female behavior.

illusoryfindings · 2024-03-24T15:56:36+00:00

You're right in that it's more socially acceptable for women to do this, but that's just because it's the current cultural swing we're in right now.

What you're describing happens with any group who has gripes with another group. See the "all women are whores, sluts, gold diggers" from dudes on the other side of the coin.

It's just a lack of awareness on the part of people doing this. They've been burnt in the past and there's a level of empowerment they feel from venting about it, plus the solidarity that comes with others who know their struggle. It makes them feel seen, and it gives them some revenge-like feeling of righting the wrongs done to them in the past.

swuidgle · 2024-03-25T03:09:15+00:00

Your examples of women being prejudiced against men are all examples of their space being violated, or the fear of it doing so. Your examples of men being prejudiced are examples of their relationship contract being breached in some way.

I don't think it's morally wrong for men to have some reservations and fears regarding women especially when they've had poor experiences. But I don't think you can label those two different types of bias as being one and the same.

EulenWatcher · 2024-03-24T16:00:05+00:00

There are negative stereotypes about both genders and both genders will defend "their" side more often than they'll defend the other.

Having said that I find it curious that your examples of bias against men are almost all about random stranger men. I might disagree specifically with the way you formed them, but milder case "women have to be cautious around men they don't know well" isn't exactly a bias - it isn't unfair not it's a distortion of stats, considering that men are physically stronger and commit more violence. Sure, it's a small portion of men, but as we've said it multiple times these men don't have a sign on their foreheads. Moreover, men themselves should be cautious around other men considering the stats.

From the other hand, your examples about biases against women are all about an individual woman in relationships. It's more about interpersonal communication and finding a partner with compatible beliefs and boundaries - if you start dating a woman whose style you find "skimpy", that's on you, not on her. It's your personal boundaries, it doesn't mean that other people have to follow them.

YtBlue · 2024-03-24T15:27:46+00:00

Women really only want what's best for them. Don't ever ask a woman for male dating advice and expectations

OffTheRedSand · 2024-03-24T16:13:15+00:00

Before reading the body i was gonna comment "is the bias women saying on no that man might murder me and men saying oh no that woman might say no to me" but then i thought well people are just gonna be pissed i picked the extreme ends as examples. and yet low and behold the biases in your body are basically what i were about to comment. you really don't see how much the stakes are differenet between the biases men and women have? there is a reason one is taken more seriously than the other. your own examples you picked show confirm this.

KayRay1994 · 2024-03-24T17:12:25+00:00

The comparisons you’re making between both genders are out of whack - ie. the danger of going out at night can be a legitimate concern, also…. nobody cold approaches “looking for love” (and when people do, it’s a very very low chance, let’s get real), also the women i’ve seen saying things like “all men cheat” are very hurt and emotional. In other words, their opinions are not to be taken seriously. As for the 3d example, i’ve frankly seen social media skits make a big deal out of this than DMs. If someone gets jealous over this (especially of it is just a meaningless convo), then they’re being unreasonably jealous and are in the wrong.

Most of your examples simply don’t match up between both genders and it looks like you’re trying to make something out of nothing.

As for why the things you mentioned as met with content - the first and second example are nothing but insecurity as the only correlation between those and cheating/being promiscuous is perception.

Grand-Inspection2303 · 2024-03-24T20:51:04+00:00

Guys whining about how it's not fair they're perceived as more dangerous is one of the more hilarious parts of the whole Men's Right's/RP movements. I'm a man, and I'd be much more afraid of encountering men while walking alone in the dark than of encountering women in such situations. Anyone, regardless of genders is more of afraid, because men pose the greater risk as surely as Pitbull's pose a greater risk than golden retrievers. I get that it goes against feminist dogma to admit men and women are different, but it's that dogma that MR/RP movements should be countering, rather than making silly arguments that people should ignore common sense and be just as afraid of women as men.

Financial_Leave4411 · 2024-03-24T15:31:26+00:00

Women’s complainants are about their safety where as men’s complainants are about controlling women at least based on the ones you listed.

wtknight · 2024-03-24T16:03:55+00:00

You are defining "socially acceptable" just based upon what women are saying, when it's obvious that men consider their own biases against women to be socially acceptable. Since when has socially acceptable been considered what women are saying rather than what men are saying? If men are saying that women in relationships drawing attention to themselves are poor long-term partners, then this is a substantial part of the narrative of "socially acceptable" discourse, too.

TRTGymBro · 2024-03-24T17:09:30+00:00

If you want to live your life the way others tell you to, be my guest.

Sharp_Engineering379 · 2024-03-24T16:18:44+00:00

Man cold approaching is seen as just wanting sex. It's not assumed he may want love

It doesn’t matter if he wants a Hallmark romance if she isn’t interested or attracted, cold approach is still a pesky sales pitch.

Safinated · 2024-03-24T16:15:01+00:00

All Women Are Like That

She’s not yours, it’s just your turn

Women love assholes; nice guys finish last

Women age like milk

Carloverguy20 · 2024-03-24T20:39:26+00:00

You listed a serious example with a non serious example.

A woman posts on IG, who cares, it's not causing any harm.

Men have caused issues at night and on public transit. In Japan, there are female only trains, and they exist for a reason.

Your women examples sound more like a personal insecurity on your part tbh.

2024-03-24T23:20:17+00:00

Each side has complaints nothing new there

Devilishz3 · 2024-03-25T03:24:20+00:00

Both sides have their own biases. Men at night are dangerous is true. Same with the approach. Men are cheaters and fuckbois doesn't apply to me so I'm not offended, it's just venting. I know you're not arguing severity of consequences but just date women who align with you.

The women I've dated fit that criteria. I have experienced that some of the women who are against those boundaries change their tune once the man they're dating is more attractive than them which is why some deliberately avoid them. It's rarer so they don't know the feeling.

blarginfajiblenochib · 2024-03-24T16:37:57+00:00

There’s a general bias either gender is going to have towards the other: many women think men are violent, abusive oppressors, many men think women are mean, gold digging whores.

I think you picked poor examples since women’s safety concerns aren’t comparable to men’s concerns over the quality of a woman’s character and her past and present actions, but there are certainly double standards and both men and women can be very hypocritical.

You’re allowed to have whatever boundaries you want and avoid women who violate said boundaries, but likewise, women also get to vet you and men like you if they feel your personal perspective and opinions won’t make you a compatible partner for them. All the feminist language and crime stats are to preserve their social image and gain support from other women by making you look worse.

MiddleZealousideal89 · 2024-03-24T18:01:45+00:00

Both biases seem to be acceptable for the in-group. Plenty of men will complain about how unfair it is that women are wary of men in general just because of the actions of a small amount of men. Plenty of men will agree that women who go clubbing and post selfies while in a relationship are sus, at best. Similarly, plenty of women will agree with the wariness we have towards complete strangers but will think dudes are blowing concerns over going for drinks with the girls out of proportion.

And while it is true that men's concerns are given the side-eye more often, there's a reason for that as well. If you started dating someone who constantly posts hot selfies and who constantly goes clubbing in "slutty" clothing, and you didn't bring your issues with that before starting the relationship, it comes off as controlling to demand they change after you've already agreed to be with the person as they were. You shouldn't date people who do things you find inappropriate, no argument here but then don't start dating those people and expecting them to change for you. It's like women who start dating a guy who is the life of the party, has a lot of friends, and goes to the gym all the time, and then expect him to cut off all his female friends, spend most of his free time solely with her, and limit gym time because women might be looking at his awesome abs. You can have your standards but then stick to them yourself, don't start dating whoever, and then complain when they won't mold themselves to your liking.

Obtainable20 · 2024-03-24T15:40:37+00:00

When men do the same, they are seen as misogynist.

By women. Your boys aren't going to call you a misogynist for any of those takes.

This sub is the first place I've read the word "gynocentric" and I understand why I've never head it before. Ironically, the same men that complain about gynocentrism care a lot about the opinions of women. If you criticize them, they'll call you out and insult you.

What else do you expect?

januaryphilosopher · 2024-03-24T15:56:10+00:00

You're just arguing that people see "microcheating" as ridiculous. And it is ridiculous, and people think it's ridiculous when women buy into it as well. Do you have an example of behaviour men aren't condemned for which isn't about "microcheating"?

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CalligrapherSimple39 · 2024-03-25T06:16:02+00:00

I see these things like a pendulum.

I guess man had the best of it all for quite some time. That rubber band got overstretched, and it has twang too much to the other side. And we will have to wait a while for a medium balance of things.

Yes ATM males are one of the most hated on the planet, white males inparticular.

Is it fair?

Nooo

But it is what it is. We're currently living in a women's world. Let's see how it goes....

MongoBobalossus · 2024-03-24T15:34:25+00:00

The DM one is the only one that’s problematic. Taking selfies and her going out dancing with her girlfriends isn’t “cheating.”

MyLastBestChance · 2024-03-24T16:11:25+00:00

Or…in other words:

“Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.” Margaret Atwood

And in your mind those threats are equally significant?

djblackmith · 2024-03-24T18:05:24+00:00

I love PPD man.

"Yeah it's true take it like a man".

KurlyKayla · 2024-03-25T01:14:51+00:00

I actually think there are some valid things men could complain about when it comes to women, but on here at least, they instead opt for the nonsensical topics like body count, women's right to choose what she wants to do with her own body, etc., and it makes hearing their concerns out a lot more difficult. Women's biases come from self preservation. Your biases come from bemoaning that you simply can't control women.

LapazGracie · 2024-03-24T15:32:14+00:00

I dunno.

In my experience it's pretty normal for women to call each other out for shitty behavior during a relationship. Like going out clubbing and what not.

Men justify their bullshit as well. Everyone is sort of doing the same thing.

absconder87 · 2024-03-24T17:39:23+00:00

Stop listening to Andrew Tate.

paputsza · 2024-03-24T19:09:25+00:00

hmm, men complaining about microcheating is naggy behavior. It’s like a woman getting their feelings hurt because thirst traps come up on your feed. Women who post online are just existing.

Also, saying men are dangerous at night is just kind of a universal sentiment. Also serial killers are a problem. There’s a ton of them near me. I just don’t think most of these things compare. The third point for women, which I think is toxic anyways, is basically all the points that men have, but deranged.

Zabadoodude · 2024-03-24T16:07:51+00:00

This is why you need male friends. Of course women are going to condemn men for not being OK with something many women do. No one likes being judged. You need bros that have your well being as a priority to give you advice from a man's perspective.

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Timpstar · 2024-03-24T17:55:45+00:00

The way I've been told this works (I won't say whether or not I agree with it) but here goes;

Punching up vs punching down.

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

Intellect7000 · 2024-03-24T19:19:14+00:00

That's just how the world is. Women have to be cautious because they are more at risk for sexual assault or harassment.

NotARussianBot1984 · 2024-03-24T23:47:02+00:00

Men are not condemned for their biases/preferences.

EX: many men are going overseas to find women. And providing they do it respectfully, women don't shame them for leaving and prefering foreign women for wives.

Cardboard_Robot_ · 2024-03-25T05:10:06+00:00

To tackle your first example on the men side, women have reason to believe that. Women are frequently harassed and assaulted in public. It’s not about saying “all men will assault women alone at night”, but rather that it’s best to be cautious because it could result in their death or rape otherwise. 99% of rapists are male, and 1/5 of women reported experiencing attempted or completed rape in their lifetime. I know several women personally who were raped.

Compare that to your biases towards women and you say “women dressing a certain way isn’t okay in a relationship”. Can you see the difference in the stakes there? How one is a more pressing claim?

To respond to the other ones on the men side, I agree. You shouldn’t assume men are cheaters or just looking for sex, that’s an unfair assumption. I see a lot of self proclaimed alpha male pages saying it’s baked into men’s DNA that we need to cheat and have sex all the time and that’s okay for men but not women, but that’s not scientifically backed nor do I think it’s a majority of men that think like this.

To address your women biases though, I think that’s an overly controlling attitude. At the end of the day, it’s all about boundaries you set with your partner, so if those are terms you both agree to then that’s fine, and if she doesn’t agree then she can leave the relationship. But for me, I don’t care with my gf, and thus I don’t think it’s an issue where “no one should be doing this” when the partner is okay with it.

I don’t think it’s fair to assume that when women try to look good in the way they dress or what they post online that it’s to get the attention of other men. If my girlfriend thinks she looks hot in an outfit and she wants to post it, she can go ahead because I have trust in my relationship that she is going to be faithful and I know the reason she’s doing it. If she feels confident in her appearance I want to support that, not squash it out of insecurity.

I do agree the DMing is a bit much, but I think it relates to this common notion that men and women cannot be friends without being attracted to each other. Which again I think comes down to a matter of trust, and I trust my partner. First of all she’s bi so I’d have to prevent her from being friends with anyone, but even if she wasn’t, again, I just trust her. Because she is an adult, and capable of forming normal human friendships with others.

obviousredflag · 2024-03-25T15:35:38+00:00

You just said it and i don't see how it wasn't socially accepted.

Also, if you require NOBODY to get up in arms for overgeneralized statements that are not true at all, to determine if something is socially acceptable, then both side's statements are not socially acceptable.

I do reject all statements from both sides.

2024-03-25T16:11:40+00:00

My ex was the epitome of this. Everything and anything was justifiable if it was for "womens safety". Tracking collars on men? Well she was drunk when she said that but she tried to justify it by saying it made women safer.

She created alot of disdain in me for the concept of womens safety so now I just oppose it out of spite for the extremists.

WhiskeyHotdog_2 · 2024-03-25T23:27:40+00:00

I’ll automatically dismiss this because you used the term “micro cheating”. What a ridiculous bunch of hogwash, if you’re going to try and argue that a woman’s concern for her safety is the same as a man’s desire for monogamy at least use proper terminology and not the jargon of someone who is a chronically online red pilled person.

Hosj_Karp · 2024-03-26T06:12:20+00:00

Why should you care what random women on the internet think about your preferences?

tHiShiTiStooPID · 2024-03-26T07:23:26+00:00

I think two things are at work here, just in my personal experience, that influence this 1000% real phenomenon. First, any perceived attempt to enforce completely legitimate boundaries in a relationship by a man is universally labeled as controlling, and an attempt by men to “control” or constrain female behavior and sexuality. This is actually utter bullshit, because regardless of which gender does it, there is a distinct difference between the enforcement of personal boundaries, which is a decision about what YOU will do in response to their violation, versus controlling behaviors, which is an attempt to influence or control what THEY do or don’t do in response to the same violation. A man having boundaries that they feel are important to the integrity of a relationship, and for which they will end the relationship over, is not controlling, it is them exercising the same right anyone has to say, “I’m not comfortable with this so I’m going to go.”.

Second, the climate of modern gender relations has resulted in the women of the last two generations having a societally accepted and supported lack of accountability for their actions as if it has somehow become wrong to hold a woman to account for her choices. Example: if a man paid for sex at any time in his life he is a creep and might get left by his partner or denied a relationship in the first place, but if a woman sold herself for sex as an occupational choice not only is it wrong to say it’s not real work but if you express an unwillingness to accept her choices and have a relationship with her, then that’s about your weakness and insecurity (are you f’kn kidding me?). As a man I can’t even picture the almost magical world that this would be if nobody held me responsible for my choices in life, or better yet, equated doing so with a kind of victim blaming (since all women are victims and all men are perpetrators). This has been taken to such extremes that women can openly harass and ridicule people advocating for men’s rights on social media but if the same were done with women’s rights you’d be dismissed and blocked/banned as misogynistic and mentally ill.

It’s a blank check of sorts where women can engage in whatever depraved behaviors they like and you’re not allowed to judge her for them, but men will be held to a set of standards that seem petty and arbitrary, and that’s just ok.

apresonly · 2024-03-26T15:32:36+00:00

> A woman posting hot selfies when in a relationship is seen as microcheating behavior by many men

it depends if she did this before they were dating or not

if she suddenly starts doing it for the first time, yeah i agree this is microcheating

> A woman wearing really slutty clothes going clubbing while she has a boyfriend

meh

i guess i have never cheated or been tempted to cheat and i love to dance so i dont see an issue with this for men or women, but if you have a real reason to believe they are being unfaithful, then thats fair, sounds like you should just break up.

> When men say women in monogamous relationships shouldn't answer DMs of random men, women get up in arms that it's "just a convo"

anyone who has this standard should apply it equally to both genders

Back2Bass6 · 2024-03-29T21:45:02+00:00

Female innate solipsism. Ergo, being the more vulnerable sex female needs/wants are perceived as justified and necessary while (mens) are seen as optional, unnecessary.

HeartTheHero · 2024-03-24T16:31:24+00:00

Mens complaints are trivial

Solondthewookiee · 2024-03-24T17:18:29+00:00

Men at night are dangerous. Men on public transport are dangerous

*might be dangerous. And the "bias" exhibited is to avoid walking alone at night.

Man cold approaching is seen as just wanting sex. It's not assumed he may want love

The sole criteria for cold approaching is that the approaching dude finds her physically attractive. Maybe he does want a relationship, but it's starting from a place of physical attraction and women aren't stupid.

"All men cheat". "He's a fuckboi"

This isn't a bias of women. Some women, sure, just as it is for some men. But pretending like this is a thing routinely believed by women is simply false.

A woman posting hot selfies when in a relationship is seen as microcheating behavior by many men, but for this women get up in arms. In reality, no one should be posting hot selfies in a monogamous relationship

Is "microcheating" a terrible attempt by red pillers to co-opt the term "microaggression?" Sorry, no, that's not a thing.

As for not wanting women to post pictures of themselves or dressing in skimpy clothes, you are welcome to set that expectation. What is ridiculous is being attracted to a woman who does that and the acting all shocked Pikachu face when she does that.

I also want to point out that the two actual biases you listed for women come from a lifetime of lived experience. The biases you listed for men are paranoia based on nothing.

The women's biases relate to them modifying their own behavior. The men's biases relate to them controlling the behavior of others.

TheHumanDamaged · 2024-03-24T22:19:14+00:00

Women’s biases against men are, like someone else in this thread previously stated, based on hypothetical extremes that statistically speaking, aren’t actually as likely to occur to women as much as they think they do. It’s the same logic that racists use, just add “black” in front of women’s complaints about “men” and it becomes clear as day.

boom-wham-slam · 2024-03-24T15:58:32+00:00

Unfortunately you missed the entire point.

You're a weak man and you will continue to have lots of problems with women.

Eastoss · 2024-03-24T16:11:49+00:00

Men at night are dangerous. Men on public transport are dangerous

A minority of men are dangerous to other men essentially. Some women will take men's disadvantage in life and turn it into a woman's disadvantage that somehow men have to feel guilty about.

When men say women in monogamous relationships shouldn't answer DMs of random men, women get up in arms that it's "just a convo"

IDK I feel women are generally unanimous about both men and women not doing this.

Kentaro009 · 2024-03-24T19:14:02+00:00

Part of the explanation for this is that it is simply less socially acceptable for a man to be a whiner or complain about his problems. It just isn't considered very masculine or as an admirable trait in a man.

Sargeras13 · 2024-03-24T17:42:02+00:00

The mistake people in the comments are making is that they are taking the severity of 1 groups bias to completely reject or invalidate another groups biases, 2 biases of different severity can still be valid to have

Gilaridon · 2024-03-24T16:38:41+00:00

These comments are going jist as I thought they would. They are going in the form of, "Women concerns matter, men's concerns dont."

All too often people won't just stand women's concerns on their own they outright try to disprove men's concerns, often while demanding that men understand women's concerns.

They are literally telling men their concerns don't matter because women have it worse and as such men should only consider women's concerns. It's wild that they don't see the problem of dismissing men's concerns while demanding men understand or take on women's concerns.

Fabulous_HonestTea · 2024-03-24T17:33:19+00:00

As a man, you can have as many biases against women as you want and express them in any way you want.

But only if you’re handsome enough to get away with it.

Title	Women justify their biases against men all the time, but men are condemned for doing the same
Author	aspiringgamecoder
Upvotes	129
Comments	327
Date	March 24, 2024 3:24 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1bmnbfj/women_justify_their_biases_against_men_all_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/women-justify-their-biases-against-men-all-the.1513100 https://theredarchive.com/post/1513100

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