A Lot of the Things Making Men Miserable are things Men Could Fix

IceWingAngel · 2024-11-18T20:24:23+00:00

As I have stated in the past and will continue to reiterate, relationships of all kinds (friends, family, significant others, etc.) are unique in and of themselves, and are NOT substitutes for one another. Of course some of them share interchangeable facets with one another, but they can't outright replace each other in their entirety.

Technical-Minute2140 · 2024-11-19T03:32:57+00:00

Disagree. Some of us actually like women as people, not just sexual prospects. I’d argue there’s more of us like that then otherwise. I hang out with my friends just fine. I’m still depressed because I’ve never known what love is like or so much as held hands with a girl.

Livid-Log7463 · 2024-11-18T23:50:48+00:00

Nothing can ever be a substitute for the immutable innate desire to partner.

py234567 · 2024-11-19T01:28:39+00:00

It’s a different type of connection between friends and lovers. And I’m one and done with fucking a guy friend to make up for the lack of worthwhile women, it does not work.

I would absolutely agree that for any individual, most of what makes them unhappy is in their power to fix.

Aafan_Barbarro · 2024-11-19T06:53:29+00:00

I think you demonstrated what I would call "half-way empathy". You recognize there is a problem but you don't want the responsibility of being the cause nor the solution. So we get responses like this that completely miss the mark.

I am gonna repeat this forever, but friendships can't compensate for lack of romance or sex and men who do lack sex and romance often have friends, and still have desire for more.

ilike18yoblackpussy · 2024-11-19T00:21:31+00:00

I'm not convinced that men are actually miserable nowadays, or at least not anymore miserable than they ever were.

Studies I've seen suggest that women's self-reported happiness declined significantly from the 1970s to 90s, and that younger women, in particular, became much more unhappy with the rise of social media in the 2010s.

Whereas men's self-reported happiness has remained fairly stable. Some studies suggested that women were more unhappy than men.

I don't know what's going on with younger people today. But when I was growing up, the no-pussy getting guys, nerdy types, perennially single, etc. used to hang around together. It was the guys with gfs who tended to spend more time with their girls and less time with male friends.

A lot of older men may socialize less with other men, but that's partly because a lot of men of a certain age are married and/or have kids, and focused on their families and work instead of hanging out with the bros like they did in high school or college.

NiaNia-Data · 2024-11-19T01:25:19+00:00

Well what you said generally applies to everyone. Everyone is connecting less and hanging out less. And it follows everyone is now miserable.

I really do hate the “all x blame all y” as it’s just reductive and generalizes people. Even if I accept that all men are now all sad and that’s all men’s fault, it’s a little ridiculous. When half of the human population experiences the same symptom, no it’s probably not half the population to blame. I think society is to blame.

To reiterate this isn’t exclusive to men. Women are also hanging out less and ergo are declining in happiness

catdog8020 · 2024-11-19T03:28:29+00:00

I put the blame it on social media and OLD. It’s created hoeflation (don’t like the use of that word but you get my point).

WhenWolf81 · 2024-11-18T22:54:58+00:00

If your claim is correct that men are responsible for their own struggles, then the fault still lies with society for failing to provide them with the tools and skills needed to navigate those challenges. I understand that it’s much simpler to attribute this to laziness or bad intentions, but that perspective serves more as a coping mechanism to reinforce your own negative beliefs and feelings about men. And I would recommend challenging those feelings and not just blaming only men.

Eater0fChildren · 2024-11-19T01:02:23+00:00

I wonder who has been assaulting mens' spaces for decades

Comprehensive-Job243 · 2024-11-19T02:21:43+00:00

Geez, I was a Rotary Club treasurer and a woman... weird flex on that point

Kman17 · 2024-11-18T20:26:36+00:00

Men are miserable because they’ve stopped hanging out with and taking care of each other

Men are complaining that DEI efforts are discriminating against and vilifying them and that modern dating / hook up culture has amplified hypergamy.

That’s totally fair.

Men, in general, tend to have fewer but close relationships. Men don’t bitch that their friends suck; they tend to be more robust than female friendships.

Many young men have had two years of peak socialization time cut off by the pandemic. All the metoo vilification and being stuck at home seems like just a thing and blink of any eye to us adults - but to the young complaining in Reddit that was trauma in their formative years.

Men tend to form relationships from common activities and events over time rather than being inherently desirable to other people. Cutting them out for two years set them back father.

John_Oakman · 2024-11-18T20:32:11+00:00

The traditional (in the sense of being historically the norm) forms of social validation have been dismantled in the past few decades (probably due to the realization that the footsoldiers of every extremist movement in history are merely ordinary men), and attempts to reinvent them usually tend to get accused of being front for being extremist groups- which then leads to actual extremists taking them over (and making it a self-fulfilling prophecy) as moderates flee them due to mainstream social pressure.

This is why every male group in the early 21st century is some flavor (or becomes some flavor) of misogynist organization.

treadmarks · 2024-11-18T22:23:40+00:00

"A lot of the things" -> you named one thing, loneliness or lack of friends.

The feminist mainstream media beating down men for at least a decade, the horribly unequal economy, DEI putting men at the back of the line for jobs, social media and dating apps ruining dating. How is an individual man or small group of men supposed to fix these things?

StunningSort3082 · 2024-11-18T20:26:36+00:00

Part of the issue that you’re missing, is that women now expect “their man” to be their everything, including their bff. I hear other women complain every single time their husband tries to do something with just his friends.

Women whine about golf, they whine about boys trips, and they even whine about grabbing a drink after work. Even if you have a cool wife, that understands the importance of male friendships, good luck finding a buddy who also has a cool wife.

What a catch-22 to be in. Women want you to have friends, but as soon as you’re in a relationship they don’t.

AidsVictim · 2024-11-18T20:39:22+00:00

What's actually missing right now from men's lives that men have always written about positively is friendship and community with other men. Again, read books by men, from the past. They're mostly pretty clear that their wives are nightmares and their friends are great.

I can't say that's been my impression reading older literature. Bad or failed marriages are sometimes plot points sure, often even just for comedic effect, but I never got the impression there's some consensus about marriage being miserable. Mens love of their wives and getting back to them or righting some wrong done to their spouse are very common plot drivers.

Anyway while the advice to men to socialize more is good it makes a couple of bad presumptions.

One being that there's some fungible unit of socialization that satisfies across life. A man that's highly social with other men but fails in getting relationships with women might be happier than the a guy that fails in both categories yes, but he's still likely to be unhappy being single.

Second is that men and women are really differentiated in their unhappiness levels - there's no evidence of that. Both men and women have very negative social health trends. The forces that produce atomized and romantically alienated people acts on both genders and the outcome is not favorable for either. You could essentially give the same advice to women as men in the OP (socialize more) and while not wrong it's badly insufficient for understanding trends in modern society.

wtknight · 2024-11-19T00:16:35+00:00

What's actually missing right now from men's lives that men have always written about positively is friendship and community with other men. Again, read books by men, from the past. They're mostly pretty clear that their wives are nightmares and their friends are great.

These men probably were either seeing prostitutes, had mistresses on the side, or both. Most men consider sex a need. Some of the men who I knew in my childhood from the "Silent" or "Traditionalist Generation" who went to male social clubs and bowled or golfed were certainly like this.

I don't think that the men of the past were as great as you seem to think that they were.

szclimber · 2024-11-18T20:18:08+00:00

No. Many young men are single and sexless. This is the main problem.

harmonica2 · 2024-11-19T00:20:44+00:00

To the OP, is it really feminism that wrecked dating? Are almost all women who are interested in dating nowadays are the trad types and feminists never want to date?

Wattisgoingon45 · 2024-11-19T06:12:40+00:00

I agree but see the only thing important for me are money, sex and companionship.

Sex is big factor

Khidorahian · 2024-11-19T08:44:49+00:00

Its the internet that caused our unhappiness, not women. The sooner more of us realise that, the better off we’ll be. And when I say we, I mean us blokes.

Throwaway47294746047 · 2024-11-19T23:39:38+00:00

I think you’re operating on a flawed premise, your “evidence” that there’s two unhappy/cheating couples for every happy couple being from old novels, historical records, or biographies is classic confirmation bias.

Novels are fiction they intentionally tell more interesting stories than real life often by introducing tension and drama that is not the norm. A book about a normal couple with a stable domestic situation wouldn’t sell well.

For history books/biographies those are going to be focusing on powerful famous people who were highly influential in their times and not the average common person, stable domestic relationships are hardly worth writing down in the record after all. And the people who write and publish biographies are at a level of status and desirability most people never have so that’s not a good example of normal relationships either.

SamuraiGoblin · 2024-11-20T03:16:29+00:00

I somewhat agree with you, however:

The internet has made everyone lonelier. The world is more isolated than ever before, since people can get all their entertainment and sense of community from the internet, making it harder to meet people in real life.
Lack of physical intimacy is a major part of the problem, that other men can't make up for. And the reason for it is because of online dating fostering a generation of women leaning into hypergamy. The average man is getting far less attention (sexual and romantic) from women these days.
You say "just make more men's spaces," but a certain portion of feminists have specifically torn down those spaces for being 'toxic.' Men used to have male only spaces, but women didn't like that, and began inserting themselves into those places or getting them banned. If a group of men tried making a 'male only' club in the current climate, they would be dragged through the mud by every major news outlet before they could hang the sign.

KingBembi · 2024-11-19T00:20:29+00:00

Yeah but you don't fuck your male friends now do you and sexual needs are a Pretty big driving force in mens lives so if that need isn't being met by getting female attention all the male friends in the world ain't gonna help

0kayz00mer · 2024-11-19T01:05:05+00:00

Imagine you have an average friend group of both men and women and a stranger approaches the group. In a culture that socially demonizes men / male interests / male biology, that friend group is more likely to welcome in the stranger if she's a woman than if the stranger is a man because they are more likely to perceive the man as a threat, or think he's sexually attracted (god forbid) to one of the women or something. I think THAT is why men are lonelier nowadays. If you’re a man with male feelings like sexual attraction to women (god forbid) the internet is your true home, a place where you can be yourself in quiet solitude and escape from a society that dislikes you for just being yourself.

InterestingDiamond35 · 2024-11-18T20:30:23+00:00

I was thinking maybe cause guys play too much video games they don't get out much, but Don't guys bond with other guys when they play video games together online? All that cussing each other out and jokes makes for some good male bonding😄.

I think its more that men watch too much porn from so early in life now that they get this delusion that women are promiscuous as hell, and when reality shows otherwise, they consider women as cruel and hate on them.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2024-11-18T21:17:09+00:00

A lot of guys here need a crew of friends. It could be just a small core group of bros, all the way to a bunch of friends and acquaintances in a bunch of areas and activities.

marchingrunjump · 2024-11-18T21:43:18+00:00

I think there a subtle gender difference we haven’t acknowledged. Everybody knows men are stronger physically. Men acknowledge this.

However, women are way more socially adept. So, in any given 50/50 mixed social group, women will dominate the discourse unless other factors are at play. Women has the ability to dominate the will of the collective through stronger social muscles. This is not something women typically will acknowledge.

It is easy as a women to postulate that men makes the rules and they can jus go fix their problems.

It is no coincidence that everything “gender equality” is about improving conditions for women and girls. It is so because the powers that be, decides it is to be so. The powers that be are influenced by what the collective thinks is right and wrong and what reality is. What is fake news and what are undisputable neutral facts.

The ultimate sign of being in power is not how many stars, stripes or titles you have but rather how well you can get your interests served.

How many men have said at their deathbed I wish I had spent a little more time in my cubicle. Men have always paid a high price to serve women.

Perhaps too few men can afford to participate in Elk Lodges and Rotary Clubs these days. There’s always job, family, wife, kids and the gym to take care of before extravaganzas such as Elk Lodges.

Proudvow · 2024-11-19T07:50:41+00:00

Men are not as supportive in friendships as women are, on average, so the value of male friendships is not up to par. Tbh men are annoying, and doubly annoying if they're all getting laid while you aren't.

mashedturnip · 2024-11-18T20:19:15+00:00

They don’t want to fix; that takes effort

What they do want is to regress, which requires none

ConstantCode8637 · 2024-11-19T02:07:50+00:00

Yes. A few things I notice are:

Woman claims she prefers a single, and independent life. Men project their own fear of lonliness by fear mongering her that she'll die alone. The solution is to focus on women who DO want to currently build a relationship with a man.

When a woman has a set of standards and good qualities she desires her potential bf/husband to meet, men say her standards are TOO high, and she's better off getting a cat, even tho they ARE attracted to her. The solution is to either raise your own standards and self image, or leave her alone, because some man will meet them.

They believe online dating is unfair because they swipe on every woman, or most, and have 0 matches, meanwhile they are in an app that is 85% men who all want the same thing from women. The solution is to get off the apps, and just focus on real life connections.

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Khidorahian · 2024-11-19T10:28:32+00:00

For me, its the MeToo movement which cemented my logic of “Do not bother women in any circumstance unless she really needs help” in my day to day life. The Pandemic helped to isolate me even further.

Now I do not know really how to socialise, but at least I am not a creep haggling women!

New_Alarm4355 · 2024-11-19T14:21:39+00:00

Because men are in constant competition with each other, I deem this a cope

BootyBRGLR69 · 2024-11-19T19:51:25+00:00

When we do have community with other men, many women see it as a misogynistic boys’ club. Realistically, the lack of third spaces in general is the biggest factor here. I think telling men to “just get out more” is victim blaming that ignores the societal factors as to why men don’t have community in the first place.

So continues the long feminist tradition of blaming men for their own suffering.

cromulent_weasel · 2024-11-19T20:39:31+00:00

For every couple that blissfully took care of each other there were probably at least two couples that cheated on each other, argued all the time, and drove each other to drink.

Yep. Just thinking back to my grandmother, her husband was ok but both her sisters had husbands who beat them. Divorce wasn't a thing then but I think that them divorcing would have been better than staying with those men.

I also agree with your first sentence that men are blaming feminism for structural problems that are largely the fault of capitalism and the 1% (and only somewhat tangentially the fault of feminism). The pressure on the working class to essentially be indentured labour in exchange for health insurance, companies LOVE that. For the workers it's not so great.

What's actually missing right now from men's lives that men have always written about positively is friendship and community with other men. Again, read books by men, from the past. They're mostly pretty clear that their wives are nightmares and their friends are great.

True, however capitalism and society has kind of squeezed men out of all of their 'third spaces' where men maintained those social bonds, And Covid came alone as the death knell for public social interactions in general.

Men are miserable because they've stopped hanging out with and taking care of each other, and they're blaming women for it.

I totally agree with this sentence, but it ignores a little how much society has changed and how most people (men and women) spend most of their time online nowadays. That's a barrier to organically meeting people and hanging out with them, both because you can't actually have a physical conversation with someone in another house, and because people are slowly becoming dopamine drained social media addicts who are uncomfortable living in the real world with other people for any length of time.

Imaginary-Order6227 · 2024-11-20T05:10:53+00:00

*There's a pretty common narrative... feminism wrecked men's happiness*

Feminism has wrecked WOMEN's happiness more than anything.

MBTHVSK · 2024-11-21T04:42:31+00:00

OP I don't think you know how fucking boring male friendships can be. From the lack of physical beauty to the general tendency to only talk about hobbies, it's so fucking dry. It's good not to give up on them, but FFS they don't remotely satisfy.

UnhappyInevitable680 · 2024-11-21T17:46:54+00:00

This is evidence that women aren’t aloud to be blamed and are immune from criticism. They are perpetually infantalized by our culture because criticism of any sort is taboo. Suggesting higher responsibility is taboo, men are seen as parents and women are seen as children. When cultural problems arise for women, the culture needs to change. When cultural problems arise for men, men need to change. While I agree that men need to be better with nurturing relationships with friends and family to help their depression, it will not fill the main essential void that is built in our biology. The need to reproduce and receive love from the opposite sex. The dating market is in crisis and if only one side is deemed to need improvement and the other is immune then the problem will never be fixed.

Specified_Owl · 2024-12-01T01:20:18+00:00

I don't get wanting to be a breadwinner. Obviously we all want "bread". But do men really want to have to go out to work for it every day? Or do they want to be retired and rich asap?

LapazGracie · 2024-11-18T20:22:04+00:00

I think you way overstate how bad the marriages of the past were. We know from many different metrics that married people tend to fare better financially and psychologically.

The move away from the nuclear family has been utterly detrimental to modern society.

We should encourage males and females to couple up again. To build homes together. To have kids together. That is where most people used to get their social fix. That is where most people used to get their reason for existing. Now you have a generation that doesn't have either and we're surprised when things like depression, anxiety, drug use etc are through the roof.

You don't need to bring back draconian anti female laws to accomplish this either. Just need to acknowledge the truth for what it is and look for a solution within that framework without shitting on females rights.

Fun_Breakfast697 · 2024-11-18T20:26:36+00:00

I think a lot of those struggling, lonely men have the same attitude towards male friendships that they do towards romantic relationships -- they expect the perfect situation to fall into their lap and they don't want to leave the house or put in effort for it to happen.

I think this attitude is unfortunately common among lonely people across gender lines, but lonely men are likelier to focus entirely on their romantic failures while totally ignoring the social life stuff.

Someone I follow on twitter spent days getting yelled at after sharing her (very basic and non-controversial) tips for making friends as an adult, based on her own experience starting from scratch in a new city. A lot of the people yelling at her were women full of excuses about social anxiety and accusations of ableism and it echoed the crap I see from incels to an absolutely shocking degree.

WanabeInflatable · 2024-11-18T20:44:50+00:00

Women are not a solution to mens problems. Very often they ARE problem. People who think women are bad and in the same time demanding a woman in their life are contradicting themselves.

Yeah, male friendships is a solution to male loneliness.

saywhatitis11 · 2024-11-18T20:24:50+00:00

I agree with this post. Men blaming women for their unhappiness is stupid and wont make anyone happy. Genders seeing each other as enemies or adversaries is so bad for us as people and as a society. We’re in this together and we need each other and we’re happier together than we are apart.

A feminism has stacked the happiness cards against men in some respects. This is worth talking about.

Men being with men is very important. But it isn’t the same as women being with women.

Title	A Lot of the Things Making Men Miserable are things Men Could Fix
Author	Imperburbable
Upvotes	25
Comments	259
Date	November 18, 2024 8:09 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1gue6r7/a_lot_of_the_things_making_men_miserable_are/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/a-lot-of-the-things-making-men-miserable-are.1536144 https://theredarchive.com/post/1536144

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