“ She should have been the property of her father until he picked her husband for her”- an alarming rise of reactionary rhetoric in redpill spaces

AngeAware · 2025-05-19T20:08:10+00:00

There are basically two sides of RP (for men) that have vehemently disowned each other for a while now and you are seeing one side of it. Some do slide to the opposite side after becoming disillusioned with the other for whatever reason.

The tug of war is even evident on this sub where the degenerate plate spinning side used to be a lot more prevalent but feel practically nonexistent now.

jay10033 · 2025-05-19T20:41:12+00:00

My opinion is by giving these comments/viewpoints the light of day and oxygen, you elevate them and give them more worth than they deserve. These comments thrive on shock value and in a world where attention is currency, in order to get said attention (by people like you), it gets increasingly extreme in order to capture your eyeballs.

This rhetoric only thrives on attention.

ScruffleKun · 2025-05-19T23:04:13+00:00

I found this comments alarming as it appears there is a growing sentiment in the redpill/manosphere that women shouldn't have rights, in particular when picking their romantic partners.

Social media rewards extremist content with attention. They are rewarded just like every other group with strong views on "those people" (whoever those people are).

Calm-Lab-8592 · 2025-05-19T20:03:42+00:00

lol too bad none of these losers have the power, ability, or influence to do anything to women let alone revoke their rights. These men are delusional. Fathers picked husbands for their daughters for centuries and women still experienced traumatic abuse and lived horrible lives it’s far better now that women are able to be independent for themselves obviously these men are just frustrated and angry no woman would willingly be with them, but even if fathers did choose the husbands for their daughters who’s to say ANY of these men would be picked?

Schleudergang1400 · 2025-05-20T14:44:39+00:00

People do what gets them viewers, clicks, subscriptions, algorithm points, engagement, money. hoe_math planned out his social media career to make big bank and then retire. You just got him another couple dozen of subscribers. It works.

His main content has lots of really good points that are pretty unique and explained in a way that can reach mass audiences. He also has some weird views about societal collapse in the near future, a very value based agenda and an ideological imprint on the otherwise well researched takes. He also suffers from guru-state and because he only talks to an echo chamber, he can basically say whatever by now and get applause for it, or at least no critical backlash. Similar to Jordan Peterson, you can mix in ideological bullshit with the factual wisdom/science, and people will not be able to tell which is which.

I found this comments alarming as it appears there is a growing sentiment in the redpill/manosphere that women shouldn't have rights, in particular when picking their romantic partners

How to solve women not picking certain men as partners? Let others make the decisions of partner choice for them. It's the low hanging fruit of catering to foreveralone guys. But please, don't forget what we are talking about here: FRINGE MINORITY. Not every subscriber of hoe_math holds these views. I am subscribed, watch most of the content, yet i strongly disagree with all his non-factual, ideological statements and stances.

CatchPhraze · 2025-05-19T19:58:54+00:00

I fundamentally disagree with the notion that it's worse, it's always been that bad and the pipeline to this most disgusting content is about as vertical as a gutter drain.

Roosh before his canceling (yeah, before) actively encouraged rape via intoxication and realised an article on the return of kings that said if we legalized rape then women would just have to learn to stay with a male chaperone.

The sidebar itself calls women children or "the most responsible teenagers in the house" already seeking to strip and undermine agency.

It also talks about LMR and how to overcome it (last minute resistance) which is just how to coerce someone into sex.

The bizarre thing is the "new school" of trp seems livid that women aren't "held accountable" or are "pretending they have no agency" while seeking to also further strip women of that agency and thus accountability.

calmly86 · 2025-05-19T21:41:16+00:00

I disagree with taking away any woman’s free will to choose whomever she wants to be involved with.

That said, women have the right to choose whichever man, woman, etc, but with that right comes the understanding that it’s your choice, AND your consequences.

Women want to date drug dealers and criminals, bad boys and players? Go right ahead. However, don’t be surprised when these bad men do bad things.

This excuse that every bad man is an Oscar-worthy actor who is able to fool women who are constantly boasting about “women’s intuition” is laughable.

Icy_Ad_4544 · 2025-05-19T20:12:26+00:00

I think it’s hilarious that any redpill man thinks that some woman’s father would choose them to marry their daughter in the first place.

No parent wants their child to be stuck with an unattractive, socially stunted loser.

Outside_Memory5703 · 2025-05-19T19:48:30+00:00

I assure you that the dissolution of the red pill into more general manospherianism has been going on since at least the pandemic

ingenjor · 2025-05-19T20:03:29+00:00

Isn't the mother also deeply involved in arranging marriages in the cultures that do that?

GridReXX · 2025-05-19T20:32:18+00:00

It’s not worse. It’s more ubiquitous. It used to be only on forums like these I would see these opinions. Now it’s on Instagram, Twitter, TikTok, etc.

SapphireRising2225 · 2025-05-19T19:56:16+00:00

I mean, sexism is more hidden beneath the whole “fraternizing with the enemy” thing, but fundamentally, this is just gender based Nazism at a certain point.

A spade is a spade.

The manosphere is pretty much a hate group like any other and if the same rhetoric was directed in many other directions, it would be treated as such.

The alarming portion of murders and domestic violence and even mass killings that are gender based but where that angle is completely ignored is staggering and we kinda just accept it like it’s a normal thing.

MrNotSoFunFact · 2025-05-19T23:08:45+00:00

It's not growing. Some of you guys are very new to this side of the internet. Youtube used to have its own little bubble of thousands of hard alt-right channels that would call for what were effectively ethnic cleansings, say that certain women deserve to be raped, and spread baseless conspiracy theories in every video they published. That bubble has long since evaporated.

Reddit used to have multiple incel subreddits, a few of which were dominated by severely mentally unwell people that would constantly fantasize about hurting themselves or others. Gone.

Fucking 4chan isn't even as bad as it used to be, the internet is growing more and more sanitized. And, for the most part, this is a good thing.

Out of most of the mainstream platforms, you've perhaps picked the only one that bucks this trend. Twitter's content moderation was improving, but Elon bought it and that didn't stop most people from using it so here we are.

Solondthewookiee · 2025-05-19T19:57:47+00:00

This has always been part of red pill and the manosphere. The myth of older red pill having been some golden age of common sense discourse is bullshit. It has always been misogyny, it will always be misogyny. That is the foundation and it will never change.

TotalTravesty · 2025-05-19T20:08:10+00:00

Not to diminish the horribleness of those comments, but it makes a lot more sense when you realize that the redpill “man”osphere is primarily populated by adolescent boys. Only the most sheltered life-inexperienced edgelords are capable of sounding so dangerous yet so stupid.

Watch the video of Sneako meeting up with his fans to see the true faces of that kind of online rhetoric.

TheHypocrisy97 · 2025-05-19T19:56:48+00:00

Women have got to accept/acknowledge that there are a lot of misogynistic men who want to rape, control and abuse women, they haven’t gone away and they haven’t changed. Women were subjugated for thousands of years for a reason.

BothWaysItGoes · 2025-05-19T22:20:46+00:00

What is even itishoemath? How do you know it’s a rise in western redpill spaces and not just a bunch of Indians with recent access to the internet and people like you with paranoia and weak psyche who follow ragebait content with 30 likes?

flipsidetroll · 2025-05-20T07:26:54+00:00

Those same men are also the ones who talk about how men are muzzled from talking about things but they are all over the internet not being muzzled at all. They can say whatever they want. I remember reading on 4chan years ago, a redpiller saying that anyone who wanders onto his property, in any capacity, becomes his property and therefore can be treated any way he feels like. So if a woman came onto his property, he can rape her because she belonged to him now. If a black person came into his property, he could shoot him or make him a slave because they belonged to him now. Isn’t that psychotic?

If they want a society like that, then they must move to a society like that. Move out of the western world. They whine about people moving into areas and trying to install their culture, well it works both ways. Don’t like the culture you’re in? Move to one where you think women are treated like that.

Most_Read_1330 · 2025-05-21T08:13:44+00:00

Sounds like the person is saying outrageous things to get views and monetization.

YveisGrey · 2025-05-19T20:20:11+00:00

These men are okay with women being abused anyways because like you said how does a marriage being arranged protect women from abuse? This isn’t about protecting women it’s about protecting their “property”. They see women as property

-Shes-A-Carnival · 2025-05-20T00:33:12+00:00

keep bringing muslims and indians into the west, that'll help

MiddleZealousideal89 · 2025-05-19T19:57:17+00:00

Eh, I remember this kind of crap being around during the "heyday" of Return of Kings and similar dinguses. It is probably growing in popularity among young boys, which is concerning. However, a bunch of them will get their first kiss and move past being upsetti spaghetti that Sarah from their English lit class didn't want to go to prom with them.

Logos1789 · 2025-05-19T20:15:57+00:00

My opinion is that you should encourage women to become and remain avid voters.

I guess you should also tell them who to vote for, because a lot of women vote against the interests you mentioned.

Warm-Gas-6436 · 2025-05-20T11:48:03+00:00

This attitude is growing as men realise that they are forced into subsidising women's poor mate choices. If women are free to choose their partners, they should equally incur all consequences of that free choice. At the moment, choosing poorly is subsidised by men in the form of child benefit, social housing benefit, state education, child care, healthcare etc. If you want a hot guy over a reliable one, that's absolutely fine, but why do you feel entitled into taking resources from others unrelated to cover yourself?

How many women here say inc£ls are just natural selection, well so is a woman and her child starving because she made a poor decision, though only one of these is socially acceptable to state while the other is deemed a cardinal sin.

You either own it, or you don't.

babazuki · 2025-05-19T22:58:17+00:00

Women told us that men are a greater danger to them than bears. They called men sexist for not taking that view point serious. Men say women need to be protected. That's what they've wanted.

Men are called sexist for suggesting women should be guarded because it hinders their freedom.

There is no pleasing them. They just like complaining. They don't want a solution. They want to hear their own voice.

YveisGrey · 2025-05-19T20:11:10+00:00

Wow I’m actually surprised they are even putting any blame on the perp rather than justifying his actions by saying she was in the wrong for receiving such gifts. 🙄🙄🙄

And that’s not even the worse take from the red pill.

attendquoi · 2025-05-19T20:21:31+00:00

This isn't really shocking if you were raised by conservatives. There isn't much difference between what boys say online now and what I was raised with 20-30 years ago.

IcametoMOG · 2025-05-19T20:25:18+00:00

Idk about being property but I feel like women and men should have someone of the opposite gender to vet their partners. Like my mom is a woman and because of that she just knows how women move, like I remember my first gf was a bitch I’m not even gonna lie to you. She was a goth girl with a big ass who did the I’m a sweet good girl who is traumatized, and I just need a good bf to treat me right type shit and I fell for it, but let me tell you My mom called it 2 seconds after laying eyes on her. Somehow she just knew the girl was gonna be a problem and I actually remember arguing with her about it, and like 8 months later it turned out my mom was 100% right. My ex and her big ass fooled me, but she didn’t fool my mom 🙏🏻

My best friend is a girl and I also trust her judgement when it comes to women as well. Both of them never miss when it comes to women.

So idk about a girl being her fathers “property”, but women need to have a guy to just help them vet men, because a lot of you really don’t know shit and end up getting manipulated or played easily. A brother, your dad, a cousin, a male best friend, idk.
Like I know as a guy I have just called it out the gate, like I’ve literally looked a guy or just hear shit about a guy for a minute and i can accurately pin point how he moves.

forking_guy · 2025-05-19T22:46:28+00:00

Not gonna lie, I used to really enjoy a lot of hoe_math's content. I thought they did a good job of explaining sexual behavior and psychology by breaking them down with those dumb little info-graphics. But this shit is just weird. Maybe he was always this whiney, but it didn't come through in his earlier stuff. Maybe he's just doing it to drive engagement and make money.... Either way, if you're a young man who's counting on society backsliding to the point that we become tribal hill people again, you're never gonna get what you want. Stop pointing out what what we all already know and crying about how unfair the world is. Work your ass off and learn how to succeed.

AidsVictim · 2025-05-20T17:17:05+00:00

The more society becomes socially dysfunctional the more reactionary or extremist sentiment grows. I don't know if people expect for everyone to just walk into the end of modern society as birth rates crash or what.

That said you could always find this sort of sentiment by going to certain Internet niches, it's nothing new and hoemath is statistically irrelevant.

goo_wak_jai · 2025-05-19T21:04:55+00:00

500,000 followers is a drop in a bucket, especially in the context of over 8 billion people on planet Earth.

Even if we isolate that number to just the total population in the USA alone, 347,871,707, it's still a drop in a bucket.

Blue pillers still make up the overwhelming majority, so y'all can rest easy tonight that TRP doesn't even register in the overwhelming majority.

Now that your fears have been debunked, let's talk about babies. We need more of them. Why are blue pillers forgoing childbirth? Don't tell me that's it's inflation because inflation has always existed in a capitalistic society.

Original-Opening7306 · 2025-05-19T20:06:29+00:00

Second wave feminist here. Ain't no way women are getting back in boxes built by deluded red Pill men. They can chat among themselves all they want with their freak ideas. Ain't gonna come to nothing. Might encourage a bit more male on female violence but sure we are always knocking that fucker back down anyway.

AutoModerator · 2025-05-19T19:43:10+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "Debate" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

AutoModerator · 2025-05-19T19:43:10+00:00

Hi OP,

You've chosen to identify your thread as a Debate. As such you are expected to actively engage in your own thread with a mind open to being changed. PPD has guidelines for what that involves.

OPs author must genuinely hold the position and you must be open to having your view challenged.

An unwillingness to debate in good faith may be inferred from one or several of the following:

Ignoring the main point of a comment, especially to point out some minor inconsistency;

Refusing to make concessions that an alternate view has merit;

Focusing only on the weaker arguments;

Only having discussions with users who agree with your position.

Failure to keep to this higher standard (we only apply to Debate OPs) may result in deletion of the whole thread.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

Hoopy223 · 2025-05-19T22:28:58+00:00

I mean, for thousands of years a girl (or young guy) couldn’t get married without the fathers consent.

Now we have sexual liberation which has its own ups me downs (freedom has consequences). Half (40%??) our children are being born into unmarried single mom households and we’ve got a whole bunch of young men who aren’t dating or even talking to girls.

As for that guy and those posts…not touching it lol

MissLute · 2025-05-20T01:16:30+00:00

isn't mexico just a country with high homicide rates including gun crime

Bitter_Rose2 · 2025-05-20T12:14:19+00:00

Hoemath is autistic, like a huge percentage of 'redpill' followers.

Women aren't choosing them and they're getting increasingly desperate, this is nothing more than a desperate daydream of a sad lonely man who will die single, childless alone and unloved.

DankuTwo · 2025-05-20T13:29:33+00:00

Faceless bots on Twitter said something mean!

Definitely time to panic…

Teflon08191 · 2025-05-20T14:01:56+00:00

Why do you think this attitude is growing?

Because we've reached an impasse. We can't, for example, solve the single motherhood problem without women's cooperation; And women by way of trying to equivocate men "having sex" with "being deadbeat fathers" in this era of women's autonomy where they have a lot of casual sex and also unilaterally decide if babies result from the sex have been sending some pretty strong signals that they don't intend to cooperate.

So naturally some men are going to start thinking about solutions that do not require women's cooperation...

-Kalos · 2025-05-20T14:40:40+00:00

People gotta quit pretending that redpill isn't rife with this kind of incel rhetoric.

NavierStokes1 · 2025-05-20T21:35:47+00:00

Rollo Tomassi describes the "red pill" as a data pack, a set of empirical facts, while we generally associate the term with the community of pick-up artists and men looking to exploit these facts for dating. Actual reactionaries will accept the first, the data, but condemn the second as degenerates and use the data as further evidence for their ideas.

Also note that the comments you picked from hoe_math's post are not justifying the murder, but agreeing with his thesis that "Women must be protected from themselves. Every day that you do not to this, you sacrifice more of them to retarded murderers because being a retarded murderer causes vagina tickles, which easily overrides reason in all women by default."

Delicious_Algae_8283 · 2025-05-20T23:58:49+00:00

Ugh, when creators like hoe_math crash out like this, it means that they can no longer be recommended to people. His youtube vids are great, but you cannot be defending and making light of the murder of someone like this, and slinging around insults in that way.

The fallacy fallacy is at play though. Someone making an argument for something in a shitty way does not mean that that something is partially or entirely false.

It seems pretty clear that fatherless behavior is becoming a really big problem for both men and women, it just manifests differently. In the case of women, chasing chad, and getting hurt when chad does chad things. Or just plain crappy vetting and mate selection. A good father should be helping to look for issues with men his daughter is interested in, and before it gets to that point, instilling good values (that is, not prioritizing butterfly feelings over good character). The divorce rate is at about 50%, with most divorces being initiated by women, so either they can't hack it, or they missed that he was actually a bad guy, and it's happening *a lot*. Missing bad people is always going to happen, but it is happening *so much* now.

I would sooner let society collapse than go the arranged marriage route though. Just like people should be free to eat themselves to death, they should be free to make bad mate picks. It's not the government's place, and agency is based on people being their own property, and no one else's. If the people collectively decide to burn this whole thing down through an accumulation of harmful, bad decisions, that's still better than being ruled by tyranny.

The problem I see is that as things get worse, the sentiment of the masses will shift towards doing something, anything, if it seems it might make things better. This is why Gramsci recommended it as a strategy for getting the proles on board with a socialist revolution. But the would be revolutionaries don't seem to understand the fire that they're playing with, and that things probably won't go their way. In short: if people don't figure out how to not act degenerate on their own, eventually the sword of damocles will fall, and it will not be pretty. I don't think many people actually want that to happen, they just don't see it coming.

Delicious_Algae_8283 · 2025-05-21T00:39:50+00:00

Think about what had to have gone wrong here. Either no one in this woman's life told her this was a bad idea, or people did and she ignored it. Either way, pretty sad state of things how often this kind of violence happens.

stephanyylee · 2025-05-21T07:00:12+00:00

Gonna just drop this here

https://www.economist.com/international/2021/09/11/societies-that-treat-women-badly-are-poorer-and-less-stable

FrodoCraggins · 2025-05-22T18:15:55+00:00

This is what happens when you spend 24 years teaching kids that any criticism of islam is 'islamophobia' and grounds for being canceled. Pair that with social media enabling muslim guys like Andrew Tate to reach kids directly, and it means the kids start believing islamic teachings.

Cultural-Ad-8486 · 2025-05-19T20:49:58+00:00

This is terrible, I agree. The concept of "female slavery" is disgusting and does not solve anything.

But partly in the story "it was better before" there is common sense. And no, not in the sense of female slavery (I do not support this, and before, everyone was a slave, including men).

But the point is that before, from ancient times and up until the beginning of the last century, people lived in small communities in which the survival of the ENTIRE society depended on the proper work of everyone. And therefore, the institution of reputation was EXTREMELY important. As a result, this led to the fact that everyone had to behave relatively normally and not rudely with each other, otherwise the troublemaker was punished harshly.

An example of such a primitive system is some tribes of hunter-gatherers from Africa. Everyone must behave well and politely with each other, but if there is a troublemaker, he has 3 options: Correct his behavior and apologize; leave the tribe; die.

This meant that the attractive "bad boy" types and such were unable to act and were forced to adhere to the rules. So even for the "Chad" or "alpha" there was no exception, since even his awesomeness was less useful than the general work of the tribe.

But now in our time this is unfortunately not the case, since the institutions of reputation have been destroyed due to how much our societies have grown.

>Any culture/society that does not subjugate its women will eventually be overtaken by one that does.

Well, this is unfortunately true and is even happening now in some parts of Europe.

And I very much doubt that the feminist movement could provide anything against the Taliban or the aggressive aspects of Islamic culture. Well, if some feminists continue to study FDS shit like 4B and the like, then Western free culture will be replaced by less free cultures and we will all be screwed

SapphireRising2225 · 2025-05-19T21:51:26+00:00

u/No_Assignment_9721 u/liferelationshi u/VegetableFew3354

Additional-Case4392 · 2025-05-19T20:35:18+00:00

Why do you think young men are coming to these conclusions? Women’s true nature is laid bare for the whole world to see now on the internet.

“For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.”

qwertyuduyu321 · 2025-05-19T20:22:00+00:00

“ She should have been the property of her father until he picked her husband for her”- an alarming rise of reactionary rhetoric in redpill spaces

It's bottom of the barrel men.
In sophisticated countries (IQ > 90), this will remain an unpleasurable memory of the past, not more, not less.. Men with moral standards that low typically are not (yet) the majority in the Western World.

It might be growing, but it's still far from being a real threat to most women in the West. We're talking about a wet dream here.

abaxeron · 2025-05-19T20:28:24+00:00

[ Removed by Reddit ]

wtknight · 2025-05-19T20:57:54+00:00

It’s a spiral of hate. It’s started by men, of course. But as some women get more resentful of what a minority of men are saying and doing she start to generalize all men, then more men get upset, and then more women get upset, and so on. And as people get more upset, their views get more extreme.

People need to talk things out calmly and rationally. Unfortunately, not enough social media provide an adequate space to do this in.

MachineMan718 · 2025-05-20T23:30:59+00:00

I see no lies spoken. Just because you don’t like the truth doesn’t mean it’s not, you know, the truth.

yomel123 · 2025-05-21T01:53:58+00:00

Men are getting worse. The only thing we can do is be very careful around men and prob just stay single

kvakerok_v2 · 2025-05-22T04:39:31+00:00

"whoop whoop" - it's the sound of the tone police.

My personal opinion is FAFO. We're in the FO stage.

See, BP lost control of the narrative, men aren't like women, there's only so much bullshit you can feed your average man before he starts calling you out, no matter how respectable you are. Now that it has become a pressing issue, men as a whole are going to solve this problem. You think these comments are bad? Wait until they start acting on them.

You clowns do realize that you live in the day when anyone can identify as Muslim and walk away conviction-free from a bulletproof SA case? I want you to seriously ponder about repercussions of that.

My projection is that if whoring continues to escalate, the violence will escalate reciprocally until all women are wearing burqas. I give it 5 years to the peak of violence.

Main-Tiger8593 · 2025-05-19T20:26:41+00:00

if the woman/girl is underage the parents have to pick or lets say allow partners because of several reasons but thats probably not the topic...

if we talk about a conservative relationship/family this stance comes from men protect women and thats just possible if he controls "paternalizes" everything... that said a conservative woman consented to said gender roles within a nuclear family...

i think a fair gender neutral society would have less of such problems but this gets opposed by many people...

Comments