Are men really worthless?

KaleidoscopeEyes12 · 2022-07-09T11:42:29+00:00

I have a lot of men in my life. All of the men in my family, my boyfriend, and a lot of male friends too. I love all of them dearly. I don’t think any of them are less than me and I value what they bring to the table as people. I believe there are some ways in which men are just different than women, but most of the time I find it refreshing to hang out with some male friends after spending a lot of time with my female friends.

For example, I’ve noticed a lot of men keep their childish spirit longer. They aren’t afraid to be idiots in a fun way. I like to play pokemon and dungeons and dragons with my male friends, we go outside and run around and goof off, really just be silly. It’s a little odd since a lot of my female friends actually seem to look down on this type of behavior. Again, I know this doesn’t apply to every man and every woman, this is just what I’ve noticed.

They’re also the friends that I make the more dirty jokes with, because men typically find gross/dark/abrasive humor funny way longer than women (I’m not talking dark as in racist, homophobic, etc, that type of humor isn’t exclusive to one sex and isn’t good no matter who’s doing it).

I like observing the more pure ways that men interact with each other. A lot of people talk about how when women aren’t around, men just make sexist remarks all the time. I genuinely don’t think that’s true of a lot of men. Sometimes I’ll pass a group of men talking enthusiastically and they’re actually just talking about some big rock they saw or their favorite episode of the Clone Wars.

The interactions I have online with men especially on this platform are often pretty negative, as is the nature of this sub. However, I typically like the men I meet in real life. They’re funny, enthusiastic, and willing to step up to help others. I really do appreciate the men that I have in my life.

ALexusOhHaiNyan · 2022-07-09T06:58:33+00:00

Historically it seems that men are indeed expendable. When you REALLY talk to women about it, they really do have at best ambivalence about men, at worst, disdain. There are a few men that they all seem to like. This is how it is in the animal kingdom. Not sure why women or men would be upset about this. The lies about this are just to protect societal norms, keep men in line, and I guess to just protect women from scrutiny.

BlackPorcelainDoll · 2022-07-09T03:05:15+00:00

The way I see it, men on average, have a natural disposition toward things, objects, and events. There is an objective and subjective form of this. Subjective-thinking males are more geared towards algorithm, properties, and structure. Whereas objective-thinking males are more likely to steer first and foremost objective-thinking in terms of real and factual events. Algorithmic men are less focused on facts which can be logical inconsistent or untrue, but on logical consistency and truth-making. It is the difference between a coder and a politician. This form of thinking doesn't require much subject-fixation, attentiveness to persons, or anatomy - with the exception of men that objective-thinking must be attentive toward subjects around them for example, to organized a group of NPC to perform efficient tasks, in the similar way of the objective-thinking woman fixated on external, meaning men are taking in much less information than women via subjects, persons, and anatomy, making it easier to fixate on single tasks involving objects, things and events more clinically with less mental effort.

Women on average, have a natural disposition toward subjects, persons, and physical anatomy (sensitivity to disturbance in inner and outer physiological and psychological fluctuation). There is an objective and subjective form of this. The female seeks logical consistency in the subjective making of internal physiological, psychological, and anatomic states of their own self and project this outward to attend to other selves, she makes sure it is not disturbed by illogical irregularities. In other words, subject-fixation involves external and factual support and analysis of characters, psychology, and physiology. Objective-thinking women are more focused on external harmony of many different 'physiological, psychological, and anatomic' states outside of themselves. Subjective and personal are two different things. Because subjective is the yin/yang to the objective, it is always rooted in the factual and real state-of-affairs, unbiased by personal content. The difference is between the nurse and therapist. Women are good at spotting performative contradictions, logical inconsistencies and other types of "vibes" before men - which is why it may seem like women 'think in breadth'.

Both of these use objective and subjective thinking preferences, with both using equally logical patterns (as well as applied emotion to reason) to magnify justification. Both women and men have a natural fixation on things, objects and events and vice versa. Both tap into both forms of what they lack in fixation through a means-to-end, not a complete absence, which in general causes a superficial disconnect and miscommunication between the sexes through laziness as both require tapping into new paths that require more mental effort.

I think this is a product of both nature and nurture, but nature to a high degree. Twin studies have been conducted to study the distinctions that make a difference in male/female brains, and the main thing observed was that when babies were not "nurtured," but left to their natural instincts, the male babies gravitated more toward things and objects, and the female babies more toward subjects and humans. What we can extract this from this is that the generalization that men are more likely to prefer things, objects and events to women. Poor performance from underdeveloped functions in the opposite sex is the nurturing aspect via environment and socialization, and less so the predisposition to be attracted to these distinct things on average.

Where men play an 'intimate role' in terms of importance, is there are generally faster and better builders and quicker problem-solving if the problem is located in things, objects or events in specific; but not all state-of-affairs of the world in general. The man is typically good at "grounding" women and narrowing different breadth information to one main focal point to fixate more on algorithmic inconsistency or factual/non-factual events unrelated to subject, agency, and anatomy. Women usually introduce men to a large range of information and data that they are often inattentive towards on average because of things/object fixation. This may manifest in women seeming like they are saying 'many things at once,' but all these things have relevance in some degree because of subject-fixation. Many times I've changed a man's mind through drawing out the logical consistency in a strong 'feeling heavy' POV that is grounded by subject-fixation and vice versa, my partner is good at condensing my thoughts to a main focal point so that my goal can be accomplished more efficiently. Psychological conflicts are often complex and rooted in subject-fixation for example, about as a complex as building a bridge from ground up.

Most women rather let a man fiddle with a bunch of things and objects then doing it themselves with the exceptions of some DIY women, which if I am being honest, many of these DIY projects are straight forward and don't require much juice. Not because the woman is incapable, but it takes more focus, compartmentalization. Women are slower, and more prone to make error because of taking in more information, as I said before, the woman also carries the capacity and does often exercise fixation on things, objects and events, but coming along side with subject-fixation (objective and subjective), women in general need to use more mental energy to filter out irrelevant information to focus on more clinical, non-subjects.

The intimate role men play in women's life is ultimately utility, (mental and physical) - because men are useful before they are of any other form of value, regardless of what they are useful "for", because men are not just physically better at being of 'utility', but are also better "building" anything, in general. In order for women to be of the same utility, they will first and foremost have to learn from natural male 'builders'. If men want to know how to be of more 'value' outside of utility, they must consult the female gender that has survived for millions of years under diminished utility outside of baby-making - but it is not just that; but an intelligence, capacity and instinct toward logical, strategic and at times objective fixation on and ability to manipulate subjects, persons, and agencies in her favor. While both obviously, not factually true, the human (modern and primitive) still function under these reaffirmed beliefs.

nemma88 · 2022-07-09T11:02:01+00:00

No they're not.

Much of the time on PPD the conversation is very restrictive and one dimensional, revolves around the exchange of sex and that's it. Dating is often used synonymously with casual sex and even when talking about relationships its mostly boiled down to sex, reinforced by phrases such as 'I can't fuck your job' etc, sexual attraction and higher libido is the be all and end all of how men and women interact. Its spoken about in a hyper transactional way and I would suppose most of the worthless comes from this sort of reductionist standoff.

Part of this is places like TRP , and the failed RPers in Incels created an environment where a mans worth is measured in the amount of sex from different women he can get. When people believe that then yeah you have a lot of guys who are 'worthless'.

Men bring the same things to relationships as women do. They may not always be by the same means or actions, but the results are the same. But even then, a persons worth isn't only based in their romantic relationships.

LeeroyX · 2022-07-09T03:18:17+00:00

I think all of this is a product of rapid social change it will settle in due course. The vast majority are doing ok and don’t consider men useless as such.

From what I can tell most of the uproar and points of conflict are not even new and neither are the behaviours. What is newish is that these behaviours are now commonly seen in both sexes.

For instance, in the “good old days” is was not uncommon to see a young man attend university, establish a career and then consider settling down around late 20’s / early 30’s. He may have had a number of casual relationships during that period of time, some even “partied” quite outrageously if the stories are to be believed. This was not subject to a great deal of pearl clutching so long as it was kept “appropriate”. Recently women are increasingly doing pretty much the same and there is considerable push back and some people are “concerned”. There are discussions around these casual relationships being inappropriate for women, there is chat around “hitting the wall”, there is outrage around how these “youthful childbearing years” are being used. That aside, it does not surprise me even a little that people (now male and female) are now pairing up in their very late 20’s (or early 30’s) as that is the time it takes to finish education, establish a career and have time to think about marrying and starting a family.

I do believe that as this generation adjusts, more children will be born and raised in dual income families with both parents highly educated. In a global economy these children will have all the benefits of increased income and the opportunity that comes with it. More modern family modelling to navigate this change more easily.

rhumel · 2022-07-08T23:31:54+00:00

No of course men are not worthless. Men have done great things in countless ways both at the societal and individual level. I can think of lots of men I admire, respect, and care about. The problem is men in PPD tend to only view a woman as being appreciative, validating, respecting via whether she will fuck them or not.

So it does not matter if I say I admire X and appreciate his contributions because of A B C. It is not good enough.

ashpr0ulx · 2022-07-08T23:39:32+00:00

men are not worthless. i have some of the most wonderful men in my life- a loving partner, an amazing father, male friends and colleagues and mentors who i adore. i respect and value the majority of men i know.

at the end of the day, neither sex needs each other. they want one another. you don’t need a woman to survive. i don’t need a man to survive. that doesn’t make either of us worthless, and the choice to be single is made for many reasons. i’d argue that malice toward the entire gender is one of the rarer ones.

fakingandnotmakingit · 2022-07-09T00:06:43+00:00

Men aren't worthless as a gender obviously. The issue is generally the very weirdly personal/emotionally charged discussions that show up on this sub.

When ppd men for example want their low n, submissive/agreeable woman who does the dishes the reaction becomes "who tf are men to demand that" and it devolves into a men "men/women ain't worth it" discussion

The reality is that we have some kinks to work out in order to have a society where in we are judged by ability and desire instead of our gender. That we have society where men and women can do what jobs they want without bias and systemic barriers. Yes some jobs may always be male dominated and some jobs may always be more female dominated due to the fact that the sexes are different (say men in oil rigs, women as midwives). But that doesn't mean that those who do want to go into those fields should start with a disadvantage just because they're the "wrong gender"

But we're in a weird middle period where we are still finding our way. I dont think men as a whole are worthless just that lots of men (and women) in this sub are probably not people who could enter healthy relationships. There are men here who would happily cheat on their gfs because apparently women have sexual leverage so we are levelling the playing field. And women who seem to think that a man saying "I'm French" when he's Italian to get laid is tantamount to rape. Literally this sub is like watching aliens figure out how humans work.

Women don't need men. And men shouldn't need women. (at the individual level). We should be in relationships because that person is someone we like. Not "I need a provider/someone to have sex with"

hsvgamer199 · 2022-07-09T00:03:53+00:00

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MuMuGorgeus · 2022-07-09T00:28:15+00:00

I agree with you! I thought purple pill was about not being blue or red, or black or whatever. I thought purple was something in between. But it's actually a bitter combination of the whole bunch.

You mentioned, specifically, how women see men, but it also bother me when I see many "best" comments, basically saying women are out to hurt men and that you should bang them and leave, for most men here, it seems, they see woman as cunts.

What they want is to fuck a bunch of party girls, because they are sluts, and Marry an extreme submissive naive village young girl, because they aren't sluts, they aren't corrupted afterwards.

I can't put into words how repulsive I think this is. There are only benefits in dating a truly independent and experienced woman. But men are just too insecure to even consider an independent woman, their dream girl is a virgin, deprived of any previous experience. It's like most men wants to be a daddy lol.

That's all too fucked up, people should learn to respect each other.

Marzipan-Happy · 2022-07-09T02:37:49+00:00

I don't hate men. Am I distrustful of them? Very much so, but I have reasons that don't really relate to the whole pill debate.

jiminverse · 2022-07-09T04:27:33+00:00

i'm gonna be honest with you; i don't care about the majority of men. it's not hate or that i think they're worthless, they're just kinda there for me? i have no use of 95% of the male sex.

i have a father and brother who i love, and a few good guy friends i respect a lot. but i'm very wary of men as a whole (this year has especially been difficult for me as i've had a lot of encounters with men that traumatized me) and i'm distrustful of any man i haven't known for a really long time. i question their motives constantly, does he actually see me as a person or just someone he can try to get into bed?

i don't think this sub does well to represent the majority of women and men, but some ppd men do make me more alert around men irl.

EulenWatcher · 2022-07-09T04:57:46+00:00

Men aren't worthless. They have intrinsic value as human beings at least as long as we stick to the ideas of human rights and humanism. They also have their social value as workers and consumers and value as their play different social roles, like being a father, friend, brother etc. Just like women do.

I guess what some of them struggle with is that women don't find their value as sexual/romantic partner high enough to actually have sex/date with them. It doesn't mean they're worthless though. I also think they're a minority. Most men don't have much issues with finding dates and life partners.

I don't agree with the rude top comments from the post you've linked that overgeneralize things and in my own comment I've listed things besides men needing a caretaker. Able men needing a caretaker do exist, but I think it's far more common among older generations when people stick to gender roles harder than they do it now. Overall women have lower libido, they usually are the ones with custody on kids and better social circle. Our individual need to date is lower than men's.

Personally I know great men. My husband is one of the best people I've ever met. We're equal partners, I don't feel like I'm his caregiver or that he takes more than he gives to me. He's kind, good at what he's doing, passionate about his interests, well-spoken, a great lover, attentive and caring partner. He helps strangers and he makes the world overall a better place to live in. And he makes my life better as well. I also have male friends and relatives who I'm proud to know and be close to. My cousin's job is to save people's life, my uncle, although fits the narrative of being kind of helpless on his own, is "everyone's nanny", he's best with kids and eager to help you if you have a newborn or a toddler. And there are men who I don't know personally. A man whose art I'm into works day and night to pay off his father's treatment. There are male volunteers in pet shelters, there are firefighters. There are police officers who save people. All in all, there are lots of great male role models one can look up into if they just take the effort to look around.

Vyrnoa · 2022-07-08T23:32:03+00:00

This isnt a sex/gender issue. This is a political and societal issue. Not every man is a manipulative, incompetent piece of crap. But the ones that are, are often a direct result of how our system set them up to be because it simply benefits them.

When you have priviledge in a society that favors patriarchy, its a no shit situation to end up with bad things that affect both men and women.

I dont think men are worthless. I think when you talk about men being useless for women. It often comes straight from them growing up with traditional values and ways. And them never having a chance to learn better.

Mightve missed your points here but these are just my thoughts.

rhumel · 2022-07-08T23:40:26+00:00

Not having to pair off with a particular man for the sake of your survival doesn't mean that men in general are worthless.

sowwi · 2022-07-09T00:03:27+00:00

Men aren't need for society the same way they were needed until 200 years ago (industries and technology changed that).

Women now actually are, in average, doing better than men in many points. This of course affect dating, since women, usually, want a partner who is better than them (makes more money, has more education, etc.). So, basically, women find it hard to find their dream partner (due to the amount of unsuccessful males) and most men cant date a woman (because of their poor performance in modern society, they are rejected). This is one of the reason things are not working in today's society.

Secondly, I blame social medias, because they create unrealistic expectations about relationships and partners.

Thirdly. There are some poisonous movements/ideals in todays society. It's simple, if you loathe someone on daily basis, you can expect a backlash. This creates an endless cycle of hate.

KaleidoscopeEyes12 · 2022-07-09T00:32:20+00:00

Of course men aren't worthless. We all have male relatives and friends we love and many of us have male partners and male sons. I have a good relationship with my dad and my stepdad. I have a husband I love, and an ex-husband that I am still very close to (not sexually you pervs). I have nephews and cousins and friends and co-workers that I know are decent, good people. I go through most of my life not thinking a single negative thought about men. Then I come on PPD and see the most cringey stuff and I gotta say, it does lower my opinion of men in general. I have to remind myself frequently you are not real people and are mostly trolls or LARPs.

Miserable_Yam4778 · 2022-07-09T03:13:42+00:00

Most of my favorite people on the world are men. My brothers, friends, my partner. They are practical, funny, hard working, and they love deeply and fiercely. The difference between these men and the sort of men I might avoid association with is that their self esteem is sourced 100% internally.

Men who constantly talk about "validation" are immediately suspect in my eyes, because they want to be fixed. And that's not something you can get from an outside source. I cannot make you better, you have to do that work yourself.

rhumel · 2022-07-08T23:39:52+00:00

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1Here4Bach · 2022-07-09T03:50:31+00:00

Many men are worthless to me on a personal level because they don’t or can’t add anything of value to my life.

SUBLlMlTY · 2022-07-09T03:53:52+00:00

you really are. but it's okay. you can like pick up a hobby and forget about it.

EricAllonde · 2022-07-09T04:18:03+00:00

Are men really worthless?

Of course not. Men continue to be the ones who invent, create and/or build almost everything significant in our society. The scientists who cure diseases, the inventors who create innovative new products, the entrepreneurs who build world-changing companies - all are predominantly male, even today.

Also, the unseen workers who keep society functioning every day - keeping the power on, clearing away the trash, growing the food, catching the fish, shipping essential products across the country - are almost all men, doing the jobs that women dislike & avoid (other than a small minority).

Today women have the freedom to do any of those things if they want to. But they don't, at least for the most part. Very few women take those challenges on. Instead, many of them would rather just sit around (in homes built by men) using the Internet (invented and built by men) and social media apps (created and built by men) to post misandry about how "men ain't shit", "men are trash" and "#KillAllMen".

Let's not kid ourselves. Without men willingly continuing in their traditional roles, society would collapse within 2 days.

yamb97 · 2022-07-09T16:17:39+00:00

Sure; I love my dear boyfriend very very much, he’s an absolute peach. He is the most patient, caring, and loving. Not once in the time I’ve known him has he missed sending me a good morning text. He gets me cute little gifts like flowers and themed baskets. He has never said no to rubbing my back. He stays awake later even when he works early to help me sleep. I do not think men are worthless, I think the losers on PPD who are bitter they can’t get laid are.

doggiedoc2004 · 2022-07-09T20:11:56+00:00

Men and women ideally should complement each-other in a monogamous relationship. This provides the most stability for rearing offspring. There are other mating strategies of course but this provides the most benefit to the most individuals and society most of the time. Egalitarian relationships in modern western society would be the gold standard morally and reproductively. Egalitarian is a mutually agreed upon division of labor including finances, emotional, child rearing and home care. This does not need to be based on gender stereotypes.

This is not easy to find, but those of us who do find a high quality egalitarian partner generally tend to be in the professional managerial class and tend to be the ones doing well with low divorce rates.

This pattern of relationships building and mating does tend to leave out the lowest quartile of men who do not bring a lot to the table but thems the breaks evolutionarily. Women who fail to find a sufficient partner tend to go it alone since we can be fully fledged individuals now and do have a social safety net when men leave us with offspring they do not support

Master-Edward-3 · 2022-07-10T03:40:46+00:00

Just wanted to say that description could definitely been abbreviated in its entirety.

BoopEverySnoot · 2022-07-10T04:48:24+00:00

Is this an age thing? I’m about to Be 42. I don’t hate men. Generally speaking, I get along very well with men. My girlfriends too..we have a friend group of both sexes, not coupled.. we just like each other. Where did this dislike for the other sex come From?

MoveFeeling8807 · 2022-07-15T00:27:05+00:00

The vast majority of men are genetically worthless to modern society since much of thier stake is eliminated by automation, globalization,etc. As a woman, you could eliminate about 50 percent of males and nothing would change.

WilliamWyattD · 2022-07-08T23:33:10+00:00

I don't think there's any getting around the fact that there are probably more men than we need for a functional society to run. Would war and violence decrease dramatically if men were to disappear and women reproduced using lab-made female embryos? Probably. There have been studies done that societies with too many men are inherently more unstable than societies with too many women.

The ironic thing is that if we dramatically reduced the # of men, it's the remaining men who would benefit since there are fewer of them to go around.

Bobbyjets · 2022-07-09T01:14:52+00:00

This is a fringe subreddit on the internet, it is not representative of the population or their views

Slight_Fig5187 · 2022-07-08T23:42:01+00:00

That's quite long, but I think either you or somebody else raised this same point a few days ago.

As a woman, I don't think most women in here are posting anything hateful or demeaning towards men. Yes, most of us disagree with a lot of the things posted here, because many of them have implicit messages of misogyny, trying to find tricks and strategies to approach dating which are harmful to women (and I would say, in the long run, to those men themselves if they're looking for a meaningful relationship).

But those are not posts anti men, they're post against some red pill ideas.

As for saying that divorced, widowed and single women live in general happy lives without men, whereas lots of men in the same situation don't, again, no misandry in there, it's just a description of how things generally are.

I've been reading this forum for quite a while, and the vast majority of women in here are either in a relationship with a man or have been. Which proves clearly we do love men and appreciate their company. In my case, I've loved and appreciated many men during my life, not only my romantic partners, but also my father, the men in my family, my friends, coworkers, neighbors, etc. And I'm sure a lot of the women in here too.

There are not many posts by men in here who express a) having known a good number if women in their lives in all the different categories I mentioned above and b) loving and appreciating them. With some very nice exceptions, most men in here either say they know almost no women, or just post about how many they've slept with.

Killz4Thrillz954 · 2022-07-09T09:13:22+00:00

There is no equality in life. That is bullshit. The pedo rapist is not the same as someone who holds themselves to higher standards. With that being said, the world would not even be in a position for women to have a voice if it wasn’t for men who got them here. The women that hate men and the patriarchy are essentially biting the hand that feeds them. Men make the world go round, not women. You dont see women handling trash, high voltage power lines, laying bricks, fixing and maintaining sewers, going to war, etc. That is what men do. Women essentially just get positions at already established places (man created) and hold jobs. Yes there are outliers who create business and thrive but they would not even have that opportunity without the men who got us here. Men make the world go round and unfortunately some men bend the knee to women so that gives them the impression that they are better. The world would fall apart if there was no men literally

itm4l2000 · 2022-07-09T01:55:13+00:00

Deep down everyone knows, when law and order cease to exists horrible things happen, let's not lie to ourselves who the worthless sex is.

75_Attack_Zerk · 2022-07-09T04:27:27+00:00

Lol, we were better off back when women were treated as they adequately should be circa 1400s.

Mrs_Drgree · 2022-07-09T02:55:13+00:00

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neetykeeno · 2022-07-09T03:50:15+00:00

Oh of course men aren't worthless...they carry and provide a lot of worth to themselves. And economically and militarily they carry a lot of worth to richer people who are mostly men. Putin's sure getting value from those Russian teens and the heartbreak of their mothers, isn't he?

The system however has for thousands of years been set up so men can easily skip out on being of worth to women and children while still, with the backing of more powerful men, expecting women and children to repay several times over whatever worth men do deign to provide. Men, as fathers and husbands in families so frequently give crumbs and expect to be given someone else's whole cake in return.

A lot of that system that benefits men in this way is still in place and I don't think we can really blame the large numbers of women who decide that men are generally trash and it benefits an individual woman to avoid men. What's the alternative? Play the same losing game we've played since agriculture started even though going it alone is a viable alternative? Search for a man who despite so many structures set up to advantage him will turn away from use of those structures even during hard conflictual times in a relationship...those men barely exist.

randomaviary · 2022-07-09T15:22:12+00:00

Maybe all men need to strike for a week so we can give the world an answer to this question.

Have fun trash talking men without: power, water, air conditioning, refrigeration, oil extraction and refining, waste disposal. Because women definitely want to do these jobs, I’m sure. 🙄

We do the tough, dirty and thankless jobs that keep society running and yet we’re still considered “expendable” Women, go build Amazonia if you’re so much better than us. Do it.

throwawaytouchscreen · 2022-07-09T00:28:50+00:00

Men are indeed wicked. They are generally more sociopathic and apathetic compared to the female gender. Problem is society never holds them accountable or to the same moral standards as women. Women are vilified while men are infantilized. Can't name a single place in this world where men don't have cheerleaders screaming "its not all men" to death.

LittleBitSchizo · 2022-07-09T15:00:04+00:00

Shut the fuck up please. Lmao I'm only in this sub for the cringe and entertainment value and it still doesn't fail to deliver.

AelfredRex · 2022-07-09T01:37:30+00:00

If their heads are firmly wedged up the Manosphere, hell yeah.

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Ok-Map-7596 · 2022-07-09T03:16:53+00:00

Some are some aren't.

2022-07-09T06:01:44+00:00

Are men really worthless?

Opinion correlated to hair length, hair color, BMI and degree of sexlessness 😂

Krouser1522 · 2022-07-09T07:17:00+00:00

Yeah I think this whole which gender is better thing is just backlashes going on that has more to do with ideology more than anything else and just like you have debates between conservatives vs liberals this is somewhat similar and people get into their own camps and it becomes an “Us vs Them” issue. I don’t think any gender is better than the other and each complement the other and we work together to build society and civilization. Now what happens is because these ideologies take over it essentially becomes another pissing match and a lot of hate gets spewed on various subreddits but no men are not useless this idea is caused by feminism telling women they are better off without men and just stay single and if you get involved with men then you are supporting the patriarchy and so on but none of these things are healthy and like other hot button issues society is facing we have to build bridges and come together and find common ground again and realize we are better and stronger working together rather than against one another.

itm4l2000 · 2022-07-09T12:38:16+00:00

That maybe the case, before feminism made things into a zero-sum game for men.

gofigure62 · 2022-07-09T12:51:11+00:00

Lots of people are worthless. People includes both men and women.

It doesn't make sense why you were offended regarding the comments about men not being able to live alone on average. Most of the comments in that thread provided data and personal testimony of both sexs regarding their beliefs. It's a documented fact that men do not do well alone, especially in old age. And there are a multitude of factors for that.

This sub often ignores how drastically different men and women are socialized. And automatically apply positive or negative connotations to this behavior based on their own interpretations of what they consider "good" or "bad".

The reality is, many people aren't really to blame for how they were raised, molded, and conditioned to be from society. A lot of men are in denial about how much they depend on women and need women to socialize and have any kind of human interaction. A lot of women are in denial that most of us are raised and conditioned to be of service to others.

Which is why this hetero dynamic of a needy male and a female that "does it all", but snaps is so prevalent. Both parties enter these dynamics claiming that everything is fine, until it's not. They're not sustainable relationship dynamic because people are in denial about it. The men are in denial that anything their wives want or complain about has any significance. The women are in denail that they're taking on too much in the relationship and are going to burn out and become resentful because they lack the spine to set boundaries and expectations within their relationship and just fuold by doing everything because it's easier and or they're still in the butterfly stages of the relationship and find her husbands lack of participation "funny" and "cute".

Neither party are victims to the dynamics that they create. Women are to blame for doing everything in a relationship and then magically believing that their partner should change over night the minute they get tired of carrying the load after X amount of years. Men are to blame for never listening to their wives or taking their complaints seriously.

Now of course this is a generic reduction of heterosexual relationships. If course there are genuinely terrible male and female partners that are mentally ill, abusive, horrible, etc, but that isn't what I'm referring to.

Typically women get burnt out over these repetitive experiences, because they keep doing the same thing in relationships and figure that it's easier to stay by themselves. Men also keep doing the same thin in relationships and figure that it's easier to be with someone else.

Ultimately that doesn't make men or women "bad". Romantic relationships are not a necessity. If someone would rather be single at any poin in their life they're allowed to do that. If someone would rather be in a relationship and can find something to be with, then they're allowed to do that as well.

2022-07-09T13:02:56+00:00

social and cultural dynamics have been changing for a few decades now and we know that, as many other women have been pointing out lately as far as I noticed when it comes to this topic many say men don't bring anything to the table cause we know how the relationship standards totally changed compared to the past. Women's emancipation at least in the west made it possible for us to be independent economically which means we don't need a man to "provide for us" at the same time it looks like men didn't catch that and they aren't changing their behavior at least when it comes to relationships actually they just end up blaming women for all the issues.

I'd consider men worthless until they start to realize women are looking for relationships based on basic respect, emotional connection, strong companionship, deep intimacy on different levels otherwise we are truly better on our own if you don't bring anything valuable for our well being in our lives.

2022-07-09T13:12:03+00:00

No men aren't worthless lol. Like I see babies with a penis as equal to babies with a vagina. I think society fucks up everybody by trying to make people programmed copies as opposed to invidiuals. I think men historically are why society sucks because...they fucking made society, and had all the power to change the rules and laws and were rhe only ones voting. Like men have invented ahit and made poetry and art and thought deep things. Men "gave" women rights, and not because they had to. But it feels shitty to say men are good for doing that when really they were evil for not valuing women.

I'm dating a man. I love him. But strangers on the street will make sexist comments about us through small talk, assuming he's the handyman and I'm just thr person to spends money, or assuming he does the gross jobs and I sit inside and eat chocolates or some shit and laugh. Men online, on this forum, will literally compare women divorcing their husband's to men raping women, and then act like I'm the man hater for saying that them being single gives them no right tobbe sexist.

And there are all the studies, which are actually being accurately read and not just manipulated like red pill men do with their "studies", that show married women do more work, that men think they're being generous by doing literally just equal fucking work when both parties are working full time. Like most men on this planet, and I'm going to make that claim, see women are weaker and inferior. And it's fucking revolting how when women point out "look women have tonwork harder, married women's lives are shorter, and the primary reasons for divorce listed by women are shit like husband's refusing to fucking clean and learn their kids hobbies" that it's seen as hatred or calling men useless when instead it's just reality.

The better question would be "are men capable?" And that's a fuck yes. But a huge portion of men do not want to be

g0juice · 2022-07-09T14:52:08+00:00

No. Stop watching daytime tv.

Booexgirlfriend · 2022-07-09T15:27:06+00:00

I like men and I need men. Of course, not to put a light bulb.

I love these types of men, the ones who don't hold a grudge against women.

They had and still have good relationships with women throughout their lives and instead of complaining, they fix it. My requirement to date a man.

I like men who work with their hands until they hurt but keep working and smiling.

Now, those men aren't here.

That's why you read what you read.

Don't just look at what the women say here, what do the PPD men say?

"Women are useless because women don't spread their legs for me but only for Chad."

That's what we are, holes. Of course, women are going to start seeing dating as a worthless activity.

Are men really worth nothing?

I don't like this but men have to create value to be considered valuable. Most don't want to and here's the topic.

They will find value in other men's creations, really.

Most men love to wear these medals just because they're men. This is a problem, but it's actually fun.

"We are superior because..."

The "we" is funny because most men will die without contributing anything to this world.

No invention, no discovery, most young men these days don't know how to fix a plug with their hands. Most of them work with computers and believe that they are changing humanity by being their boss's whore.

Most men are useless and some men are worth diamonds because they decided to create value for themselves only. Value isn't reduced to money or "I suffer more than you". It's beyond that.

You will never hear a sane man use this type of argument because he's not only honest with himself, which is a good sign of intelligence but because he also knows that women and men bring different values to the table.

2022-07-09T15:30:35+00:00

No.

Could women (large numbers of them) run fire departments, police departments, and the military? How many women are mathematically or scientifically inclined compared to men? How many women could build homes or do electrical work? Not many. Without men, society collapses.

But society will run just fine without men who have low value.

sarkington · 2022-07-09T15:42:15+00:00

Why do people have to have worth, hm?

Crackercrusher69 · 2022-07-09T17:40:29+00:00

You are worth what you can provide

2022-07-09T18:14:58+00:00

Some are

RedditorSafeSpace · 2022-07-09T18:22:38+00:00

Everybody is worthless

Substantial_Video560 · 2022-07-09T20:27:21+00:00

Most definately not! Pretty much everything you see around you was made by men such as all the great buildings, scientific achievements, works of art, literature, film and music. The list is endless.

If men walked out on society then we would find ourselves back in the dark ages. To downplay the important role of men is not only disrespectful (the thousands of men who laid down their lives in both world wars so we could have our freedoms) and ignorant but dangerous too. I find this increasingly anti-male sentiment in the modern world worrying.

Newbie1955 · 2022-07-09T22:39:07+00:00

No, men are not worthless.

I feel like this is built-up animosity from generations of objectification on both ends, which is all now socially coming to a head because--frankly--we are rich enough as individuals that we no longer "need" the other sex. Male/female relationships have traditionally been based heavily on an assumed transaction: protector/provider for fertility/caring/home managing. Women in the West can provide and protect themselves now (paid jobs), and we've got all sorts of technology men can use to manage his home and care for himself (appliances, ready-to-eat meals).

When you don't need someone else to survive, in order to keep them around you start to demand that they provide more good than bad to your life. When men expect women to be okay with the traditional transactional relationship, she doesn't see the value because she can both provide for herself and manage her own household without him. So she's going to expect a lot more from him--either protect/provide a LOT and earn a LOT, or protect/provide and be a bodybuilder or whatever. She feels objectified and she's not okay with that because she has other options--literally the option to not be with a man. When women expect men to be okay with the traditional transaction, he doesn't see the value because there are so many labor-saving ways to manage a household that he expects more than that--he wants fertility/care/management AND her to be in the lowest 5% bodyfat of the population or whatever, or, more often, provide fertility/care/management AND also earn an income to offset the labor saving conveniences of modern life. He feels objectified and he's not okay with that because he has other options--literally the option to not be with a woman.

The currency for relationships has changed. It's not the same as the traditional model. Modern Western people are not willing to settle for what has worked for millennia, and I think that's a good thing. We want more--not just what we can provide for each other (transaction), but who we can be with each other (openness. Honesty. Vulnerability. Being in each other's corner. Egalitarianism instead of transactionalism). Today people want PARTNERS in life--not the puzzle piece of "wife" or "husband" who will fill pre-set functions in our lives.

Perfect-Most3655 · 2022-07-10T04:56:29+00:00

Women were meant to outsmart, and generally have been the most necessary for the survival of a species. We just have heavier rocks to hit with and therefore consider it power.

thepowerelite · 2022-07-10T08:38:54+00:00

Men are a great investment for war profiteers.

Satellitedish710 · 2022-07-10T11:01:28+00:00

I do feel worthless to the point I am suicidal.

I am a mentally very strong person and what society, women and weak men have done to me is just disgusting.

I keep getting retraumatized cause everyone is too stupid to think why I behave like this.

Glad-Discount-4761 · 2022-07-10T12:08:03+00:00

No.Men are not worthless.In fact men helped me more than women

Is that really what women in PPD think? Can you say something nice about men so we can try and defuse this non stop hate that's going around? Those women are just new here with wrong idea of trp or maybe blue pill

IcarusKiki · 2022-07-11T21:21:17+00:00

I'm not reading all that but most men are not worth my time. Some men are worth a lot but most men, people in general are exhausting. But I am an introvert so I feel that way about most people. They aren't worthless just not worth my time personally

Fast-Criticism3280 · 2022-12-10T17:07:01+00:00

It really depends. I was married 20 years to the most useless pos. Would rarely help with the kids...when he did he would bitch and moan at me about how hard it is and how I don't understand. As if it is somehow easy for me….? He didn't cook...if he tried he'd scream and yell about how I didn't understand and what a selfish bitch I was. He was always getting fired from jobs. He was so unstable and I was so low on confidence and energy from the constant abuse. Took forever to get mad enough after an episode of physical violence in public were he humiliated me to finally say enough is enough. Leaving him made my life so much better and easier. Raising our four kids without him became really easy. No stress of his regular meltdowns and berating us brought joy to all our lives.

My current bf of three years is different. He cooks very well. He interacts with my kids and they enjoy his antics. He helps around the house. Granted we have no kids together and my kids are all older now but he does make an effort to help out. He also has a great work ethic. He does have his short comings though(as do I) but we are working on those and those are just his difficulty with expressing emotions in a positive way. While I am working on speaking up before things fester and make me resentful.

Over all we cannot judge and generalize based on gender. I am sure there are plenty of useful men that have to deal with a dead weight woman. It's psychologically not physiology. I will add though that I really don't need a man in my life. I choose to have one for the emotional support I need. Financially I need no one but my employer to keep employing me. I currently raise my kids without assistance from anyone. My current bf is just the fun uncle but doesn't do any caretaking. So in some sense I can understand where the argument is coming from if you've married someone virtually useless and unsupportive. I can't imagine what my life would have been like had I married someone like me that was able to do it all. Probably we'd rule the world by now. But alas I made bad relationship choices...lol

Title	Are men really worthless?
Author	rhumel
Upvotes	55
Comments	456
Date	July 8, 2022 11:14 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/vunmrj/are_men_really_worthless/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/are-men-really-worthless.1122510 https://theredarchive.com/post/1122510

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