Covid-Vaccine Mega Thread

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3/

Regular reminder that I am an emergency room physician and have never met anyone with COVID. This is not a denial that the virus exists, just a data point.

Anyway yesterday I'm at work, guy comes in, says, "Hey doc, I got my COVID shot 16 days ago, and my legs won't stop cramping, wondering if I got a blood clot." I run some appropriate tests, end up by saying, well, I can't see any evidence that anything serious is going on, come back if it gets worse.

However, later that day, I run into a colleague, and I say, hey Becky, I saw this guy earlier with this post-vaxx story, just wondering if you've seen anything like that. And she kinda hesitantly laughs, and says, yeah actually I saw a guy with this weird abdo pain, we worked it up, he turned out to have post-vaxx mesenteric ichemia. (This is a big deal.)

Almost certainly true that VAERS isn't capturing the full extent of vaxx side effects.

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I find it interesting how people seem to still think that mRNA vaccines are unsafe or "experimental". There's a wealth of information and testing that suggest they aren't unsafe, and the actual technology is really fucking cool, in that is allows for rapid production of new vaccines.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/11/10/the-story-of-mrna-how-a-once-dismissed-idea-became-a-leading-technology-in-the-covid-vaccine-race/

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00019-w

https://www.nature.com/articles/nrd.2017.243

From the last link, which was a journal article from 2018

The use of mRNA has several beneficial features over subunit, killed and live attenuated virus, as well as DNA-based vaccines. First, safety: as mRNA is a non-infectious, non-integrating platform, there is no potential risk of infection or insertional mutagenesis. Additionally, mRNA is degraded by normal cellular processes, and its in vivo half-life can be regulated through the use of various modifications and delivery methods9,10,11,12. The inherent immunogenicity of the mRNA can be down-modulated to further increase the safety profile

Just like any new technology, safety does need to be tested, but based on clinical trials, it seems like at least the mRNA vaccines for covid are safe

https://immunizebc.ca/ask-us/questions/are-there-long-term-side-effects-caused-mrna-covid-19-vaccines-how-do-we-know

According to the USA Centers for Disease Control, “Researchers have been studying and working with mRNA vaccines for decades. mRNA vaccines have been studied before for flu, Zika, rabies, and cytomegalovirus (CMV). As soon as the necessary information about the virus that causes COVID-19 was available, scientists began designing the mRNA instructions for cells to build the unique spike protein into an mRNA vaccine." In addition, cancer research has used mRNA to trigger the immune system to target specific cancer cells. Decades of studying mRNA have shown no long-term side-effects.

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I guess I'm just more cautious. Less than 100 years ago radiation was the new hotness miracle cure. We know better now. Medicine is full of unexpected results that seemed promising. Anyway I really like the mRNA things, just think you're getting ahead of yourself claiming that its safety is fully understood. Medicine does not have a great track record.

When I looked into these last summer, the thing that really sticks out to me is that nobody knows exactly what they're doing. They're injecting these generic fat bubbles full of RNA and they're going into I guess any cells? And the immune system is learning to attack the cells that they go into? That's just about all I can gather about how these things are actually working. At first I thought they obviously had to have some sort of targeting mechanism so that you know which cells they're attaching into. But for what I can tell that's not the case at all. They go wherever. And so that's a pretty big question mark about what these things are actually doing. It's a very nice story that's being told but I don't think people understand what's actually happening yet. Yes, mRNA we understand how that functions in the transcription sense and how that relates to DNA etc. But the whole pathology of what's going on here I can't figure it out. My dad's a pathologist and he couldn't figure it out. But it seems to work. You can't argue with that too much.

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It would make sense to actually treat people with it and give people some ways of treating it at home instead of believing in the gospel of Bill Gates' Jab as the only real solution to the problem.

Because prevention is far less costly than treatment aka "An Ounce of Prevention Is Worth a Pound of Cure"

Also, mRNA vaccine technology is not particularly new in that it has been researched for decades. It's still developing in that the technology can be improved (two shots are still far more effective than a single shot, and warm storage is not really possible yet, but could be a new breakthrough, and relatively strong side effects), but the underlying mechanism for the vaccine has been tested.

mRNA vaccines are great because once the initial vaccine is created, you can modify the RNA to create the proteins needed to combat different strains and variants of virus. It allows for rapid production and iteration.

Additional Info: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-00019-w

That article is a great summary of how these vaccines work.

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https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7008e3.htm

A total of 113 deaths were reported to VAERS, including 78 (65%) among LTCF residents; available information from death certificates, autopsy reports, medical records, and clinical descriptions from VAERS reports and health care providers did not suggest any causal relationship between COVID-19 vaccination and death. Rare cases of anaphylaxis after receipt of both vaccines were reported (4.5 reported cases per million doses administered).

Note that this was out of 14 million doses administered.

So we have..... 4.5 cases per million of anaphylaxis related to the covid 19 vaccine vs..... in the best performing US state, 340 deaths per million of population. In the worst performing states, that number is more like 2500 deaths per million.

In the worst performing states for cases, we are seeing about 140k cases per million.

All this is to say that the vaccines immediate side-effects are small potatoes compared to the risk that covid poses.

Data is here: https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020/health/coronavirus-us-maps-and-cases/#!

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My real proof against the goverments really caring about this as a real threat is they should be saying to lose weight and get in fucking shape as healthy people have lower mortality to covid than they do the flu.

Its been a year now obese people could be back to healthy (I was class I obese at one point, took 6 months to get to fit) if they really were worried. I doubt obesity rates are any lower now, no PSA, don't be fat I've seen either.

More people die of obesity and its related illness than covid every year, but meh its cool.

Here's what a new CDC study says. Obesity is correlated with a substantial increase in the risk of hospitalization, the need for a ventilator, and fatality risk among those who have contracted Covid-19, according to a recent study of nearly 150,000 adults in CDC's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report.

Stop being fat.

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High-fat diets (HFD), especially those rich in saturated fats, are the standard method to cause diet-induced obesity in animal models. Increased inflammation appears in the hypothalamus within 24 h after beginning a HFD as indicated by increases in JNK and IKK proteins as well as increased expression of TLR-4 receptors and detection of ER stress [33]. IKK induces inflammation via activation of NF-κB, which inhibits the normal hormonal signaling of leptin and insulin necessary to create satiety. Activation of JNK is often preceded by the increase in ER stress [34]. This sets up a vicious cycle of increased hunger that eventually leads to the accumulation of excess calories as stored fat in the adipose tissue. It should be noted that the inflammation in the hypothalamus precedes any weight gain in the adipose tissue [35]. This also explains why significant calorie restriction can reduce insulin resistance before any significant loss in excess body fat in the adipose tissue.

This article details the inflammatory effects of a diet rich in saturated fats. It's kind of a no-brainer that eating kfc daily is bad for you. What about diets full of healthy unsaturated fats that typically include keto diets?

[–]Cybercunt20691 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

There are monounsatured and polyunsaturated fatty acids. Mainstream praises polyunsaturated fats, because they apparently reduce inflamation. First of all not all of them, and even not long term. Then there is something called oxidative stress which PUFAs are the main offender in. They need massive amounts of vitamin E to counter that side effect and even if you do that, then you run into a problem with storing them (caloric surplus). When free fatty acids made of those PUFAs are released into bloodstream from fat cells (people go into hardcore lipolysis mode in their cutting phases, which makes it much worse) they wreak havoc and nobody is talking about that. You should always have a protection in form of Vitamin E, always.

Not all saturated fatty acids are not all bad either. If you trully wanted to optimize your health and performance you'd have to adjust intake of all those different fatty acids and it depends on your needs/health. I personally couldn't handle the dogshit keto diet, because my thyroid said "fuck you".

Also read about Randle Cycle.

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but it's far from simple in the implementation of its solutions.

Its extremely simple. You find your TDEE and eat less than that. You can calculate your TDEE online relatively accurately in seconds. You then log your food you eat which takes a few minutes a day. Then if you are not losing weight, you realize you made a mistake and eat a little less.

Fat isn't the problem in most diets; sugar is.

Neither are a "problem" when eating the proper amount. Fat is 9 calories a gram, carbs 4. There is a lot of things like satiation, etc, that go in but too many of either is bad.

Sugar gets focused because its cheaper than fat, stores very well, and makes cheap snacks. Part of why 'low carb' works is most of the crap foods you have are carb based. Not many places of work have a pound of bacon on the table but many have cookies etc. Fats not bad.

Sugar isn't bad.

Too much is bad.

[–]Kaisha001 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (32 children) | Copy Link

Sorry, that's just not true. If you eat healthy its near impossible to overeat to the point of obesity.

https://www.gq.com/story/sperm-count-zero

Testosterone levels have also dropped precipitously, with effects beginning in utero and extending into adulthood. One of the most significant markers of an organism's sex is something called anogenital distance (AGD)—the measurement between the anus and the genitals. Male AGD is typically twice the length of female, a much more dramatic difference than height or weight or musculature. Lower testosterone leads to a shorter AGD, and a measurement lower than the median correlates to a man being seven times as likely to be subfertile and gives him a greater likelihood of having undescended testicles, testicular tumors, and a smaller penis. “What you are seeing in a number of systems, other developmental systems, is that the sex differences are shrinking,” Swan told me. Men are producing less sperm. They're also becoming less male.

You're telling me unborn children need to 'eat less'? Even at birth we're seeing significant differences between children born today and those born 50y ago.

[–]jax006 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kaisha001 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

Well when I was into bodybuilding I was hitting caloric intakes upwards of 6000/day, yet I was still lean. Many Olympic athletes break 10k/day. Your average obese person is barely over 3000/day (if that).

If you're not loading up your food in sauces, marinades, and dressings, and stick to steamed/raw vegetables, whole fruit, meat with a bit of salt, nuts, fish, brown/whole grain bread (you know, boring food) you can't overeat.

Obesity isn't simply 'too much fat'. The body has many ways to self regulate; and obesity is your regulatory mechanisms failing. Which is why it's not really the amount of food but rather the type of food (processed foods, fructose/corn syrup, vegetable oils, etc... you know the usual list) that causes the issues.

I'm not suggesting people eat poorly or they practice a sedentary lifestyle, but I feel modern culture is too focused on the wrong issues. If we really want to see this thing fixed, we have to put our egos aside and look at the facts.

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Bull. Shit. Lol. I am a fairly active person and even I can make myself start to get fat if I eat 2lbs of beef and a whole jar of peanuts everyday.

Actually no.

Have you ever actually tried a diet like that? I had to do a carnivore diet (for food allergy testing) along with my mother (used her as a 'control' :) and despite eating nothing but beef, fat (literally just chunks of lard or tallow for calories), fish and liver (with a bit of salt) we both dropped a lot of weight.

This is super simple shit honestly. Calories are ameasure of energy. Consumer more calories than you expend in day = you WILL gain weight. 8th grade physics.

And see that's the problem, this VASTLY oversimplified notion of how the body works. It is not just calories in/calories out. Not even close. Your metabolism will adjust itself on a whole slew of different factors, the types of food you eat affect not only you but your gut microbiome altering how you digest/absorb food, even where nutrients are absorbed in the digestive track alter how they affect you.

[–]jax006 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Have you ever actually tried a diet like that? I had to do a carnivore diet (for food allergy testing) along with my mother (used her as a 'control' :) and despite eating nothing but beef, fat (literally just chunks of lard or tallow for calories), fish and liver (with a bit of salt) we both dropped a lot of weight

Actually yea. Funny thing is as we speak I'm getting fatter eating that type of diet, because I have a burn on my hand so haven't really been able to lift so I basically just go for runs and do abs and shit. I think I've gained like 7 pounds in the past month.

Are you sure you just don't have a fast metabolism? How old are you btw?

And see that's the problem, this VASTLY oversimplified notion of how the body works. It is not just calories in/calories out. Not even close.

Maybe a little simplified but very largely true for all intents and purposes. Our bodies have evolved from a place of food being extremely scarce. Your body doesn't just waste energy from the food you eat.

There is plenty of data and research about this. Calorie counting is 100% the most effective way to lose weight.

Someone in this same thread linked the nutritionist who literally ate nothing it junk food but lost weight simply because he counted the calories he consumed.

[–]Kaisha001 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Actually yea. Funny thing is as we speak I'm getting fatter eating that type of diet, because I have a burn on my hand so haven't really been able to lift so I basically just go for runs and do abs and shit. I think I've gained like 7 pounds in the past month.

Guaranteed you're eating it with sauces and condiments, and eating carbs as well. You're not eating JUST 2 lbs of seared steak, a bit of salt, peanuts, and washing it down with water.

Maybe a little simplified but very largely true for all intents and purposes. Our bodies have evolved from a place of food being extremely scarce. Your body doesn't just waste energy from the food you eat.

There is plenty of data and research about this. Calorie counting is 100% the most effective way to lose weight.

Most certainly not true. The most effective way to get healthy is to workout with both cardio and weights, eat clean, sleep well, practice IF (in that order). The actual amounts of food really doesn't matter if it's healthy food. Sure you may end up not losing much weight (since muscle is heavier than fat), but you will perform better (mentally and physically), have better health, reduced disease, look better/slimmer, etc...

Someone in this same thread linked the nutritionist who literally ate nothing it junk food but lost weight simply because he counted the calories he consumed.

That doesn't mean anything.

First losing weight is not the same as getting healthy. Too often people are losing muscle mass, water, etc... when doing heavily caloric restricted diets. It's also why they gain the weight back so fact when they eat even normal amounts of calories.

Also, solely focusing on caloric restriction rarely leads to healthy fat reduction, while eating healthy, working out, etc... leads to both healthy fat reduction, increased performance, disease reduction, etc...

This idea that 'calories in/calories out' is nonsense. The difference in the way fructose vs glucose vs lactose is metabolized in the body is VASTLY different. Different fats use completely different enzymes and chemical pathways.

[–]Cybercunt20691 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–] Kaisha001 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If you ate 2000 kcal of protein you will not store the same amount of fat as 2000 kcal of carbs, or fat. They all work differently in the body. Likewise different sugars breakdown in different ways.

For example, protein has just as many calories per gram as carbs, and yet amino acids must be converted to ketones before they can be utilized.

Fructose causes insulin to spike, but since tissue can't absorb it (instead it is converted via the liver) you'll store what glucose there is in the blood stream as fat instead of utilizing it as energy.

So no... it's not calories in, calories out. What you eat changes how your body works, how much energy it expends, what your metabolism does, and how it processes food.

And I've given example after example of foods that don't follow the CICO paradigm. It's far more complex.

[–] jax006 1 point 2 points 3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The most effective way to get healthy is to workout with both cardio and weights, eat clean, sleep well, practice IF

I would agree with all of that however we were only talking about diet here.

First losing weight is not the same as getting healthy

I also agree with this but again we are talking about losing weight and not being obese in this thread. You can smoke cigarettes and drink alcohol like a fish and still be thin.

Also, solely focusing on caloric restriction rarely leads to healthy fat reduction, while eating healthy, working out, etc

Again, yes, I personally think working out is more important than any diet, but that gets away from the origin of this comment thread.

Still, Calorie counting has been the most effective diet strategy for me and my friends. IF is great for helping with that, along with some other supposed benefits.

This idea that 'calories in/calories out' is nonsense

It's not at all. There is plenty of data to back it up. It is also basic physics

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So we are fat because of plastics?

Any system as complex as our bodies is the result of many interdependent factors. So sure, eating shitty and a sedentary lifestyle will cause obesity (along with all sort of other diseases/issues).

But plastics in our food supply are an even bigger issue, than just eating a bit too much sugar.

When a chemical affects your hormones, it's called an endocrine disruptor. And it turns out that many of the compounds used to make plastic soft and flexible (like phthalates) or to make them harder and stronger (like Bisphenol A, or BPA) are consummate endocrine disruptors. Phthalates and BPA, for example, mimic estrogen in the bloodstream. If you're a man with a lot of phthalates in his system, you'll produce less testosterone and fewer sperm. If exposed to phthalates in utero, a male fetus's reproductive system itself will be altered: He will develop to be less male.

Women with raised levels of phthalates in their urine during pregnancy were significantly more likely to have sons with shorter anogenital distance as well as shorter penis length and smaller testes. “When the [fetus's] testicles start making testosterone, which is about week eight of pregnancy, they make a little less,” Swan said. “That's the nub of this whole story. So phthalates decrease testosterone. The testicles then do not produce proper testosterone, and the anogenital distance is shorter.”

The problem is that these chemicals are everywhere. BPA can be found in water bottles and food containers and sales receipts. Phthalates are even more common: They are in the coatings of pills and nutritional supplements; they're used in gelling agents, lubricants, binders, emulsifying agents, and suspending agents. Not to mention medical devices, detergents and packaging, paint and modeling clay, pharmaceuticals and textiles and sex toys and nail polish and liquid soap and hair spray. They are used in tubing that processes food, so you'll find them in milk, yogurt, sauces, soups, and even, in small amounts, in eggs, fruits, vegetables, pasta, noodles, rice, and water. The CDC determined that just about everyone in the United States has measurable levels of phthalates in his or her body—they're unavoidable.

We've flooded our food supply, and hence our bodies, with endocrine disrupting chemicals... and we're surprised that people en-mass are exhibiting classic symptoms of endocrine disorders?

[–]Cybercunt2069xXxINCELFAGGOTxXx 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago [recovered] (0 children) | Copy Link

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Sugar certainly is not healthy, but we've been eating it (and variations) for nearly 10,000 years now. Elite's and the rich have been heaping it (and fat) on every single meal for 1000's of years. Sure some were fat, but not the sort of obesity we see today.

Plastics are fucking with our hormones. Hormones directly affect how we process sugars, our metabolism, how we store fat.

Compare a fat man 100y ago (there are pictures online if you look for them). You'll see picture of men with massive guts looking like they are having triplets, and tiny little legs/arms. Look at young boys who are obese today. They don't have the massive guts, they have fat on their thighs, their chest (bitch tits/man boobs), their ass. That's where women put on fat, not men...

Male testosterone and male sperm counts have fallen drastically over the last 2 generations. Male's today are at around 60-50% of their grandfathers T and sperm counts at the same age. Sugars and sedentary lifestyles are not sufficient to account for that sort of change.

It's easy to point fingers and mock fat people and claim anyone obese is lazy. And sure, there are things most obese people can do to eat better/healthier. But this goes WAY beyond just some lifestyle choices.

https://www.gq.com/story/sperm-count-zero

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You and your stupid "private property rights".........

THIS IS A PANDEMIC. LAW > RIGHTS.

YOU HAVE TO ADAPT TO THE SITUATION.

The businesses were shut down to try and prevent the spreading as much as possible.

That was stopped, because half the Americans showed how brain dead they are, and didn't follow the guidelines.

So now they have mask wearing as a mandate, even for kids. Because they're desperately trying to prevent the spread. Kids spread half as much, but they're not gonna die from wearing a fucking mask. They can play a role too.

The reason it's still as bad as it is, is because masks work ONLY if EVERYONE wears them. Because surgical masks only protect OTHERS from YOU. And if your dumbass doesn't wear a mask, you're endangering others. Luckily, there are masks with FFP3 protection that protect you in 99-100% of cases.

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So does anyone know that the covid vaccine is still undergoing trials that the general population is being used to test out? Considering that there are still deaths occurring eerily close to the time the vaccine was given (within a day to two weeks) that don't seem purely coincidental, I think people should be skeptical of it and not get it simply because they're being told or convinced to.

Also, considering that this covid shot might be similar to the flu shot and needing to have it every year, getting it right away isn't a huge deal.

Edit: Furthermore, imagine thinking that not wanting to get this vaccine makes someone "anti-vax." Absolute retarded logic there if you consider what's already written above. Getting vaccinated is a personal health matter, so stop shaming people just because you bought into the fearmongering, shaming tactics and "we're all in this together" feel-good BS yourself.

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Hard disagree, they would never have gone into humans if animal testing wasn't cleared.

It’s less that, it’s more that there was money committed and spent for multiple stages at once. The UK were funding facilities to produce the Oxford vaccine in March 2020, before it had even started phase 1 trials. The US started Operation Warp Speed in May 2020. Normally Phase 3 follows phase 2 because it’s far more expensive to do. But because money was no object they were done together, rather than wait for the results of phase 2 before committing money to phase 3. Doses were also pre-purchased and produced prior to phase 2/3 ending.

Normally, it’s find funding for research -> wait for money for phase 1 -> finish phase 1 -> await money for phase 2 -> finish phase 2 -> wait for money for phase 3 -> finish phase 3 -> wait for governmental approval -> build manufacturing for estimated demand -> sell and scale up manufacturing according to demand

All of the “wait for money” steps were skipped, and manufacturing started before trials, and demand was there from the start.

All of the testing steps were done, but often in parallel with little regard that the money to do those things would be wasted if testing wasn’t passed

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WA’s vaccine rollout was stupid as fuck. Instead of having simple age based phases we had 500 different phases each with a bunch of inane rules and their own sub-phases

Eh, I found it relatively easy to follow, but rather arbitrary. The re-opening phases were more 50/50.

Admittedly, my partner is an HR manager who crafted covid policy so her being informed probably helped.

Honestly, Inslee hasn't been perfect, but he's been a hell of a lot better than other governors imo. Washington in general has done well on covid metrics to this point. The US in general bungled covid and having weak federal leadership in that first year of covid probably screwed up a lot of state-level messaging.

Also, at least the king county vaccine rollout, especially in the last 2-3 weeks has been great.

Edit: Also, imagine if we somehow voted out Inslee for that dumbfuck Culp last November. My god that guy was an idiot.

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Omg. Are you serious? These kind of Mutations can occurr during replication. So any time the virus reproduces there is a chance for a mutation. If the virus isn't replicating there is 0% chance of this kind of mutation

Humans or non humans, remember all those mink that were killed because the virus replicates in non humans . Are we going to vax every species that can be a host? Even the ones we don't know if they can carry it or not?

Back to humans. The current info is that vaccinated humans can still get it, carry it, and pass it along, right? Thats why we have to still wear masks, right? Thats because it is reproducing in us. And when it reproduces there is a chance for mutation

Dont take my word for it. Ask your doctor. Ask anyone who has taken a class in virology. If you have a degree in biology, go to your college and get your money back.

Serious question, who told you that? I want the source. By you saying that vax people don't cause mutations is in direct contradiction of everyone who says we need to wear masks. You only need to wear masks if the virus is replicating in you.

Your post has NO basis in biological science. Thats not how it works.

Please post the link. Either you misunderstood or some one is lying.

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I’ve stayed out of these conversations despite the fact that this is what I do for a living because honestly there’s no amount of anything that will influence a person who relies on political pundits, pop culture media and 4chan to tell them how to think because it’s beyond their capacity to understand.

What I will say is this though: after 20+ years in the public health field, i fully admit that scientists are guilty in general of doing a bad job of explaining and translating science to the public. They’ve done better with covid than they normally do but it is still a big a problem.

What we really need is more people with a science background to study the principles of psychology and marketing and understand that talking to the public is a totally different ballgame than talking to your peers, and stop believing they’re above the need to “dumb it down” for the common man. The common man is dumb, point blank.

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Nah, even back in 2014, the way anti-vaccine sentiment crept up, the split was not necessarily on party lines.

https://theconversation.com/anti-vaccination-beliefs-dont-follow-the-usual-political-polarization-81001

Relevant quote below

What I found is that the more political someone is, the more likely he or she is to believe that vaccines are unsafe. Those who are “very conservative” are one-and-a-half times more likely to believe this than moderates.

Yet, the same is true for those on the left: compared to moderates, those who are very liberal are also one-and-a-half times more likely to believe vaccines are unsafe. It seems that it does not matter what your politics are, the more partisan, the more likely you believe vaccines are harmful.

Essentially, polarized individuals are far more likely to be anti-vaxxers.

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Right, because your Republican politicians and civic leaders are out there telling people it’s bullshit and we don’t need lockdowns and that requiring masks is a treading on their civil rights because they give zero fucks about the blood on their hands as long as they get re-elected and the donor money keeps rolling in.

I’m very familiar with the culture of the south. I’ve done public health work there and have seen first hand the mistrust of the medical establishment and the “it is what it is, I don’t have time to worry about it” fatalism that makes disease mitigation and prevention an uphill battle. I’ve also seen it improve when the people with influence act responsibly and the public health strategy is designed for the people it’s trying to reach, not the well off people who can work from home, stay inside and order their groceries online.

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B/c we don't just go along with our fee fees, and actually look at all the science... not just the cult Scientism.

Not too long ago we had occupy Wall Street, now all of a sudden everyone is on lick big pharma's ass.

You do know that the vaccines aren't FDA approved right?

You do know that the companies that make them are exempt from litigation for anything that goes wrong right?

You do know that each and every company that makes them has been in litigation over this before - and lost... So it's not a matter of "what if's by the conspiracy people," it's a matter of proven criminals guilty of negligence and malpractice have used their money and influence to make it to where they can't be sued again over these right?

It's like if we said: "Sure, Bob has been guilty of robbery before, but we've fixed that now. You can't charge Bob with robbery now, so therefore Bob can't commit a crime. Problem solved!🤷‍♂️"

Also you do know there's no actual proof that the vaccines stop transmission of the virus right? Just like there is no proof there are no long term health risks. It hasn't been out long term, so you can't know what long term effects will be.

We'll just leave out the other, "conspiracy stuff" such as a polio vaccine sterilizing women in Africa. It's just bum fuck Africa, so who cares right?! /s

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Title	Covid-Vaccine Mega Thread
Author	AutoModerator
Upvotes	3
Comments	839
Date	May 2, 2021 8:00 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/n3ekxl/covidvaccine_mega_thread/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/covid-vaccine-mega-thread.776705 https://theredarchive.com/post/776705