Do these young men REALLY value virginity and/or a low "N-count" in women, or are they simply afraid of comparison?

drok007 · 2020-07-21T20:51:22+00:00

I mean it’s probably a mix of both. If women are objects, you are going to want a shiny new object, not a used object. If women have stupid annoying brains of their own, you aren’t going to want them to make comparisons to you if you aren’t the greatest.

aoeusnth48 · 2020-07-21T21:29:38+00:00

Only basic reasoning needs to be applied.

For any given woman, the greater degree she has engaged in sex with the best she can attract at lower levels of commitment, the greater degree she'll be dissatisfied with what she can actually attract at progressively higher levels of commitment, since a woman's options (both in terms of quantity and quality) are greatly restricted the higher the level of commitment.

That's really all you need to know. It's really that simple.

To clarify:

There's almost no limit to what a decent looking, young woman can get for sex only or a non-commited/casual relationship. (it doesn't matter if a woman's intention was to get into a long/longer-term relationship)

That's why so many women describe having to "settle" and "sacrifice their standards" for the men they can get for marriage. So basically, it's just that those women have made it likely that they won't be good/loyal partners (especially sexually) at higher levels of commitment.

Generally speaking, for modern women today, at the point of marriage it can be characterized as follows: for the woman, it's the worst she's ever had and been with. While for men, it's the most they've had and been with.

It's not just an overblown, vague insecurity. Why do you think women refer to themselves as "loyal to a fault" before marriage but in the highest level of commitment, women are the least loyal?

A woman goes from fully loving men she cannot have, to having a man she cannot fully love.

spacechicken1990 · 2020-07-21T21:42:56+00:00

The “infatuation” with low n counts is simply the desire for monogamous, faithful and healthy relationships, because women with high n counts are more likely to cheat.

In illustration of this, the odds ratio of 1.13 for lifetime sexual partners obtained with the face-to-face mode of interview indicates that the probability of infidelity increased by 13% for every additional lifetime sexual partner

screenshot

Regarding the correlates of infidelity, results indicated that on the basis of both methods of assessment, the probability of sexual infidelity increased with higher number of lifetime sexual partners

Whisman, Mark A., and Douglas K. Snyder. Sexual infidelity in a national survey of American women: Differences in prevalence and correlates as a function of method of assessment. Journal of family psychology 21.2 (2007): 147.

Source: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17605537/

Urbantexasguy · 2020-07-21T22:03:10+00:00

These young men all want sexual experience, but they also want all the women to remain virgins!

Remind me to teach a course in remedial math....will you?

wtknight · 2020-07-21T22:03:09+00:00

I value low N women because I'm low N myself. I'm not sure what is going through the head of high-N men who want them, though. Perhaps they've seen so much bad behavior among the women who they've been with in the past that they don't trust high-N women enough to settle down with one.

InfidelCastro11 · 2020-07-22T07:10:09+00:00

The effects of promiscuity on relationships are well documented and overwhelmingly negative. There are only downsides. Pretending otherwise at this point is willful ignorance. Making it about insecurity is just a way to shame men for having standards. It would be like being insecure about someone eating free cake every day. Makes no sense

Rahim556 · 2020-07-22T12:37:14+00:00

[deleted]

YetAnotherCommenter · 2020-07-23T06:01:45+00:00

Is this infatuation with N-counts really a legitimate desire to obtain a fresh, "unspoiled" woman, or merely a reflection of deep-seated sexual insecurity in these men?

Neither, although some men may say things like this.

Its actually because men bear the costs if women leave the relationship. In addition, we're in a society that practices gynocentric romantic serial monogamy, i.e. she's encouraged to leave if she "falls out of love with him"/"falls in love with someone else" (which is a nice way of saying she finds a better alternative).

As such, men have rationally self-interested reasons to fear any trait that correlates with propensity to leave relationships. N-count is one of those.

Want to end slut-shaming? Reduce the costs men face in the event of relationship dissolution.

kwalden2 · 2020-07-21T21:08:37+00:00

Women wouldn't be getting high n counts if the first man they had valued them for their "purity" or whatever, would they?

Cleanit_up_Jannies · 2020-07-22T03:28:39+00:00

do men really value virginity

Yup. Ive had one night stands, fwbs and ltrs but no sex can compare to the only virgin girl i ever slept with. The difference was the look in her eyes, i will never forget that look she gave me. Its so different from non virgins that it really is remarkable and immediately noticeable. While i cant put it into words, it really is a world of difference.

The other girls its not about comparison, I'm confident in my ability, but their eyes just didnt have that same look of intensity. For them it was "just another lay" whereas with my virgin ex that look was more of a "this is insanely passionate, unique and special" rather than something incredibly mundane.

is infatuation with virginity about purity or just insecurity?

For me its purity, it really changes the dynamic incredibly. Its also for marriage given that virginity is the greatest predictor of marital success.

siberiansummer · 2020-07-21T22:04:05+00:00

My bf never had problems with women. He is extremely attractive and good in bed. He hasn’t asked about my n-count once and I know it’s because he doesn’t give a shit. I’m positive he wouldn’t leave if my count was 1 or 100. But of course, he actually wants a partner, not an incubator-slave-bangmaid “traditional” men are looking for

SeemedGood · 2020-07-22T04:30:31+00:00

If you have extensive experience with women of varying sorts, it should be obvious why you want low n-count women for LTRs. If it isn’t obvious yet, it will become so as you gain experience with women.

For a while it shocked me why some men don’t get this, but then I thought back to when I had little experience with women and didn’t know their nature. I didn’t know better either.

Don’t be fooled by women’s “you must be intimidated” gaslighting. You’ll learn eventually.

rubbooyuri · 2020-07-21T20:48:23+00:00

The guy who’s been posting all these n count things is terrified of being cheated on.

Like, that’s the woooooooooorst thing in the world, man. Sheesh, first world problems

SslimReaperr · 2020-07-21T21:12:28+00:00

It’s pretty grotesque how obsessed some men are with the idea of taking away a woman’s “innocence” and “purity”. What does that make the man? Do these men recognize themselves as gross things that “taint” women? Why do they get off on “taking things away” from women?

astrobrah · 2020-07-22T01:30:27+00:00

Men REALLY value virginity. They always have.

Workaholiconew · 2020-07-22T03:58:33+00:00

Not exactly,

There is the problems with high n counts, sure like higher propensity of cheating, fraudulent fatherhood and stds...

But most of us also seem to have a natural distaste for high n count women. Regardless of reason or logic, you could call it even instinctual. We are mostly fine with moderate or lower n count women, but higher ones? It is not something we want to deal for much time.

Believe me, some of us, men, would love to just share a small amount of easy high n count women (or prostitutes) forever, in order to satisfy our desires, and forget every other women, but simply put, we can't. Our bodies refuse to accept higher n count women. It is beyond our own self interest, no different from our absurdly high sexual drive.

Evolution probably made this mechanism to make us... you know... continue the species. And simply put. I don't think we are able to turn it off. Some of us, like me, who live in a very sexually free society, are able to tolerate more.... but I still feel the distaste. I just power through, as there is not much other option.

insertcredit2 · 2020-07-22T09:08:11+00:00

I certainly didn't care when I was young and just interested in casual relationships. What I discovered was that women who had high n counts tended to be less mentally stable than women with low n counts. High n count women tended to struggle with close friendships especially with other women, would argue with their parents, would be incredibly impulsive, lack a sense of direction and be very emotionally intense where low n count women would be the opposite. It seems like a chicken and the egg scenario. I couldn't tell you if women having a large number of sexual partners breaks them mentally or mentally broken women have a high number of sexual partners.

Joey_Lopez · 2020-07-22T14:18:16+00:00

That whole "afraid of comparison" thing is really just a sad attempt females are saying to try and shame men into accepting women with high body counts. Men just don't like women with high body counts, it's just our nature.

ToBeorToBeBe · 2020-07-21T21:13:56+00:00

I've been with enough promiscous women that I know they are not LTR material. At this point I've gone monk mode, but if I ever fancy marriage ever I'll just go for an unspoiled women because I can :) Very nuanced situation these fo sure

Market_Feudalism · 2020-07-21T21:41:34+00:00

There is some of that and you can't just say "he should welcome comparison". I'm not nearly as physically attractive as the men that young women have access to and that's just how it is.

But I don't think it's the major thing. The major thing is that it would make me feel like an absolute sucker to betabux for a woman that was taking miles of cock while I, for years, was alone, suffering, miserable, and all the while working to "build my value". The thought just triggers a disgust reaction in me. It's offensive to what little self-respect I have left.

rakiim · 2020-07-21T22:24:00+00:00

Lol completely not true whatever people in this sub are infatuated with. After living a year in the city, I've found that most men who are confident / know how to talk to women tend to not care about n-count, but the less they are able to talk to women and actually pursue a sexual relationship the more they value it.

It's a weird inverse relationship I've noticed, even the good looking guys but can't talk to women tend to value a women's virginity. The only time an n-count begins to matter is typically after 3-5 for less experienced men, and after 15-30 for guys who are promiscuous.

That being said, the higher the n-count a woman has, the less fruitful her relationships are. This applies though in general to women who are easy, they tend to be easier because they can't hold a serious long term bond with their partner, either through them or the partner losing feelings.

TheBookOfSeil · 2020-07-21T22:24:07+00:00

Men care about low n-count because of paternity uncertainty. That is the most basic concern. Low n or virgin women are more of a safe bet to protect against paternity uncertainty. High n-count women are high risk.

Comparison doesn't enter into the equation until you've been with someone for awhile, but it isn't really that important. Plus, any person who compares their partner to previous partners is probably a shitty person who looks at people like they're just tools to make their lives better.

GullibleClassic1 · 2020-07-21T21:35:21+00:00

I really don’t understand the guys on here who spam this forum with the same studies/discussions over and over again adding nothing new to the debate on this topic. We get it you don’t want to date promiscuous women, nobody is forcing you to and there are no laws against you dating/marrying a virgin/low n count women so you don’t have to keep justifying your standards. You just have to accept that your views on sex and women are outside the mainstream in most Western cultures so expect some pushback against your views(especially since historically and till this day obsession with female purity has lead to discrimination against women). There are plenty of avenues guys like this can take to find what they are looking for, join a conservative religious group like the Amish, Mormons, or some Evangelical/Catholic communities in the West, they can look outside the West in countries like a lot of Middle Eastern/Asian countries which has a sex culture more to their liking or they can just be upfront with their standards with women to weed out the ones who accept them or not. There it’s that easy, but most guys who obsess over n count don’t seem to just want to seek out what they are looking for to satisfy their needs, it’s seem like they want the whole society to conform to their views on sex which why they are obsessed with wanting to punish promiscuous women.

Empyrean_MX_Prime · 2020-07-21T21:17:48+00:00

Purely a concern that more experienced women expect more from me. I don't care how many men a woman sleeps with so long as she remains loyal and satisfies me. But experienced women tend to want experienced men, so I steer clear of them for that reason.

Juggernaut_is_here · 2020-07-21T20:58:17+00:00

virginity is the hallmark of pure,virtuous,chaste,religious,dedicated women

PickleLine · 2020-07-22T01:26:15+00:00

It's not an "insecurity". The word implies that the idea is wrong or invalid. There is very good reason to be "afraid of comparison."

Because of hypergamy, a women who sleeps around will always be able to casually sleep with a man who is better than her serious LTR man in every way possible (and ruin her ability to pairbond and appreciate her LTR man). There's literally nothing the LTR man can do to stop this. It's not because he is in some way deficient or incapable as a man. It's just the way hypergamy and the world work right now.

Any man who LTRs a high N-count woman and thinks he can ever be the best man who has ever slept with her is delusional. High N-count women will always have had better than their LTR man no matter who he is, so their ability to pairbond and appreciate their LTR man is broken.

But if slut shaming became more socially acceptable again, this negative outcome for LTR stability and quality can be limited.

2020-07-22T03:49:38+00:00

I leave every female in my path legs shaking I don’t need to compare they tell me I’m the best

It’s about ideals, some people literally just don’t think in terms of ideals just basic senses

geyejoe7 · 2020-07-22T07:34:51+00:00

Well I don't have that big of a dick. So if she was pounded by 10 dudes that each had 7-8 inches before me, I can't really stand out in any way.

Sure, I can give it my all in the sack. But I just can't do as much as a dude with that size can.

BASEDME7O · 2020-07-22T18:41:36+00:00

Guys don’t want to put in all the time, effort, and money it takes to be a serious boyfriend for a woman that was banging tons of guys she met the same night. I don’t think anyone except the most deluded woman haters expect a cute woman in her 20s to be a virgin

FeniZio94 · 2020-07-22T18:59:44+00:00

We value it

That old cliche excuse of “you’re scared of being compared” is pure bullshit to just normalize that shit

Over 80% of dudes don’t even know basic female erogenous zones... most dudes believe that to make a woman cum you just have to drill and pump her pussy like there’s no tomorrow...

With that into account, every time I hear the “you’re just scared you’ll be compared” (when I’ve known women drop potentially great HVM’s to keep me as a fwb) -> I know it’s just yet another cliche excuse to normalize whore behavior

At the end of the day it isn’t even the number, it’s the behavioral patterns that are the provlem

Willow-girl · 2020-07-23T12:26:46+00:00

It can't be that they're not attracted to high-N women; just look at the porn they're masturbating to! Porn stars are not exactly known for being pure and virginal, yet they turn these guys on just fine. So, yeah, it probably follows that it's insecurity ... the fear of coming up short (literally!).

SkookumTree · 2020-07-24T05:49:12+00:00

Fuck all this N count bullshit. I just want someone whose n count isn't sky high - we have different views on shit. Sky high: somewhere in the 30-50 range.

Million-Suns · 2020-07-22T00:12:11+00:00

or merely a reflection of deep-seated sexual insecurity in these men?

Rarely case of insecurity and more a case of compatibility.

If men have low n count themselves or are even virgins, they don't want a huge disparity with the sexual experience of their partners.

Insecurity is never a valid argument. Men are confident they don't want to be paired with promiscuous females, out of the ancestral fear that the eventual offspring isn't theirs after all.

"Insecurity" is a shaming tactic pushed by those promiscuous women. Men should be impervious to it, but apparently many idiots aren't.

Grand_Duty · 2020-07-21T21:03:09+00:00

[deleted]

12112019 · 2020-07-21T21:20:30+00:00

Yeah, I said it....As a Gen-Xr man, I never had any problems pursuing women. If a man is a decent lover, he should welcome comparison. It will make him look even better.

Don't you see an issue with being dependent on female validation to such a degree that you would welcome more risk just to see if you qualify her demands?

There are only two behaviors in life rational and irrational ones, to justify incremental risk taking you need to also increase the reward, so to say to men that they should welcome increased risk implies that your reward is simply knowing that you are good enough, and frankly that is a moronic reward.

You want to have your ego stroked, find other more productful ways to achieve it, I am all for more smart risk taking, but the reward must be substantially higher in this case.

beigesun · 2020-07-21T21:06:45+00:00

It’s definitely about quality of life, women obviously have more opportunities for sex when they’re young & it’d be stupid to think they don’t exploit them. Guys on the other hand, for the majority, don’t reach potential realization until later on in life. It’s the name of the game. Dating a girl with a higher body count just proves you didn’t maximize your sexual market value hence “not alpha,” so there’s FOMO & jealousy involved.

Plain & simple.

Grand_Duty · 2020-07-21T23:23:46+00:00

Not really for me. Back then in my uni days, it was more disgust. I felt just like a another # or "partner" ( essentially a what's his face)

I felt disrespected

the_purring_jew · 2020-07-22T13:31:12+00:00

As a Gen-Xr man, I never .....

spent 10 years on 4chan with indians and arabs being made hysterical about virginity and N count

lilastr · 2020-07-21T23:14:36+00:00

Any man who has problems with someone’s n count seems problematic to me. Honestly.

Sexual insecurity is so fragile

RIPOldAccountF · 2020-07-21T21:41:59+00:00

I never understood why someone would wanna buy used instead of new(assuming the same price).

xFallacyx69 · 2020-07-22T02:07:25+00:00

I don’t value virginity... personal preference. I also don’t value a woman with a high N count who bitches about men... red flags galore. But I don’t even ask a woman about her past sexual relationships... why bother

TheGirlGetter9000 · 2020-07-22T02:07:29+00:00

I don't give a shit about being compared at all. Never in 1,000,000 years in my entire life has that thought ever crossed my mind.

It's a gut-level reaction paired with the logic that "women who show that they like to fuck men without a relationship are more likely to fuck men without a relationship while in a relationship." It's simple common sense.

Add in the fact that I have the value to screen for whatever the hell I want in women, and I have zero incentive to pursue women like that for an LTR. For a non-LTR, I don't give a shit whatsoever. Being that I'm in an LTR (and she's low count), I don't give a shit.

If I didn't like girls with brown eyes, I wouldn't date any. If I didn't like girls with a Southern accent, I wouldn't date any. If I didn't like girls who wore jeans, I wouldn't date any. I don't like the idea of dating a girl with a high count, so I simply won't. There's really no reason for me to do it if I don't want to do it. So why would I?

Pillmaxx · 2020-07-22T02:28:23+00:00

As a Gen-Xr man

repeat after me: "I'm from a generation that has been taught differently, and behaved differently than the current ones and I know this has a lot to do with the answer im l😏😏king for here. I am quickly on pace to boomer status asking sugh a disingenuous question with an attempt to shame at the end no less. I will pause and think about what I'm actually trying to accomplish before asking something that I can easily get the answer to on the subreddit im asking the question, and reflect on the fact that someone much younger than I is able to see what I'm doing"

are they simply afraid of ~~comparison~~ the fact that studies have shown infidelity is more common among high n women, of the 🚩 high n represents ?

yes

Pastelitomaracucho · 2020-07-22T07:22:14+00:00

Did you, as a Xoomer, experience the level of sluttiness we see today?

M4sterDis4ster · 2020-07-22T17:00:44+00:00

If a man is a decent lover, he should welcome comparison. It will make him look even better.

Yes. You are right here.

Its about competition between men. You want something not many others conquered. If its casual, no one gives a shit.

HatezWomenzCuzIncelz · 2020-07-24T18:22:21+00:00

If she had slept with beta too, then the beta wouldn't feel cheated. But because she ignored the beta until she was damaged, he just feels played.

gopher_glitz · 2020-07-31T20:15:52+00:00

Less about N-count and more about sociosexuality orientation inventory

zerofeetpersecond · 2020-08-03T13:22:34+00:00

Men are programmed to value reproductive viability and paternity.

Bruchibre · 2020-08-05T10:02:04+00:00

It is not about comparison.

2020-07-21T21:02:15+00:00

For young men, I think its a natural turn off. At least it was for me.

For older men I think its definitely a comparison thing. If he's the first shes had, he knows she never had it better. Virginity is far less of a issue when older.

staypositivebrad · 2020-07-21T22:56:23+00:00

For an LTR, someone who's had a lot of lays is a bad choice because they've already demonstrated they don't do LTRs well.

Also, if you happen to have daughters, you don't want them becoming the same way, that's teenage-pregnancy city and leads to shitty son-in-laws or absent fathers to your grandchildren.

You can't make a ho into a housewife, and these days women seem to be more about being hos than not.

GennyX · 2020-07-22T09:56:57+00:00

It’s so weird. A virgin can still tell if the sex was bad or good. Comparison has nothing to do with it.

mistresswhat · 2020-07-22T20:19:16+00:00

When it comes to a the guys screaming really loudly online about how much they hate the sluts, I suspect a lot of them don't actually care that much in their heart of hearts. They just want to upset women and have learned that this behavior is a good way to bond with their misogynistic online buddies. A lot of them are very young and grow out of it.

Plus their online buddies won't be around to call them out on it when they happily and knowingly partner up with women who don't remotely fit the standards they claimed to hold in their shitty forum posts.

Mimoxs · 2020-07-21T20:59:14+00:00

I mean, that is the idea in tradition itself, because to an extent it is true.

We can go back and forth all day on words like "insecure", but it is to an extent reality for men and women alike.

Back in the day, they wanted virgin women bc if a woman wasn't a virgin and got an arranged marriage like so many marriages were, she might not like her husband as much and might go seek out someone else. If she had other, rather, "better," she might not love her husband as much, was the idea.

For a lot of people, if they have virgin partners, the partner doesn't know much better even if their partner is awful. Nowadays, however, the internet essentially solves that issue anyway. Even a married virgin will see online people talking about how this or that is good, see a normal sized dick etc, and if her husband doesn't do good or has a micro she'll know without having to fuck someone else. But in those days she wouldn't know.

Men also compare women to past partners. Difference is in those days men had all the power, so even if they slept around women still had to marry them, and it was perfectly fine for him to cheat. The wishes of the powerless don't really matter, so even if women wanted virgins, that didn't get ingrained into culture.

Imo? Men are much more likely to compare and put pressure on women by holding that comparison over their heads, use it as a tactic to make women feel bad etc, but again, it's not our culture for women to demand otherwise.

AutoModerator · 2020-07-21T20:46:13+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

CosmicBioHazard · 2020-07-21T22:18:20+00:00

If a man is a decent lover

And what comes out of the practice you'd need for that? Habituation, weakened response. Sex is less pleasurable because you're used to it, you meet some girl, really hit it off, get intimate and BOOM; tingle immunity. You think "oh well maybe she's not the one" and drag your unfeeling ass off to go be dissatisfied somewhere else.

2020-07-22T02:38:14+00:00

Your right. Only Christcucks™ concern themselves with this but they have a valid reason, as they are looking for a stable family.

Men like me on the other hand, we welcome to ride the town bike because we understand, it does not belong to us. Its just our turn and that eventually we will have to take it back to the town square.

Laytheblameonluck · 2020-07-22T02:45:04+00:00

Then, again I ask, why is it that women vet men who they consider as "players" when dating?

Why the double standard?

Also, what is not being considered is, high n-count would mean a high number of failed relationships, and it can also indicate a problem maintaining sex in a relationship.

SaBahRub · 2020-07-21T23:03:48+00:00

Porque no los dos?

Grave_Heresy · 2020-07-21T23:27:36+00:00

For starters a lot of men do have cuckholdry fetishes soooo... There's that.

Maybe a lot of guys have an "easy come easy go" understanding of things. If you have been with a million people then you have obviously been unsuccessful at securing a LTR for some reason and probably are not worth my effort.

Do these young men REALLY value virginity and/or a low "N-count" in women, or are they simply afraid of comparison?

Comments

A VICTIM IS A VICTIM

Title	Do these young men REALLY value virginity and/or a low "N-count" in women, or are they simply afraid of comparison?
Author	Urbantexasguy
Upvotes	29
Comments	536
Date	July 21, 2020 8:46 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/hvfi6c/do_these_young_men_really_value_virginity_andor_a/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/do-these-young-men-really-value-virginity-andor-a.716474 https://theredarchive.com/post/716474