Men and Women BOTH hate being equal

toasterchild · 2022-06-01T17:17:18+00:00

I think people get really confused by the idea of equality. Legal equality means that you have equal opportunities and freedoms. It doesn't mean you will have the exact same experiences.

Mobrowncheeks · 2022-06-01T17:35:12+00:00

I don’t think there is a single person who wants lesser for their ideal partner.

Like if you could build a wife, your saying you would PREFER that she makes less then you? Or PREFER that she isn’t as intelligent as you? Like honestly really think about it. That’s kind of wild to really prefer that instead of a women that you know is intelligent or financially secure and has a plan for a relationship.

The only way I can see you preferring less is if you want a relationship for your own self image rather then the outcome of a healthy relationship, family, wealth building and legacy.

AelfredRex · 2022-06-01T18:43:08+00:00

Why does it always boil down to some war between two egos? Just have fun and none of that shit matters.

wtknight · 2022-06-01T17:21:22+00:00

I don’t think that men want women lesser than them. Men try to optimize. If you told most average men that they could have sex with or even date a supermodel most guys would say “Sure!” On the other hand, a supermodel would likely never date or sleep with an average man.

Careless_Emu_2761 · 2022-06-01T17:33:23+00:00

Equal hair length? Equal eye colour? Equal wage? Equal IQ? Equal athletic ability? Equal compassion? Equal humour? Equal frugality? Equal pride? Equal fishing ability? Equal swimming ability? Equal singing ability? Equal confidence? Equal beauty? Equal interests? Equal desires? Equal passions? Equal height? Equal weight? Equal skin tone? Equal practicality? Equal rationality? Equal resourcefulness? Equal creativity? Equal spirits of adventure? Equal eyesight? Equal jobs? Equal understandings? Equal stubbornness?

flow3rpowr · 2022-06-01T21:50:02+00:00

Men want someone lesser

This is so detached from reality I dont even know where to begin. Where did you pick up this misandrist infantalizing belief?

pop442 · 2022-06-02T00:01:49+00:00

Might be an unpopular opinion but, as a guy with a good paying job and own apartment, i actually prefer girls who have good jobs and make decent money versus girls who are super dependent on men.

I used to date a cute girl who was broke and had no car. The relationship was fine but it kinda got stressful after a while with all the money I was spending driving to her place to pick her up, paying for dates in entirety, etc.

I also like intelligent women too.

I don't mind women who are equals to me at all. In fact, if I start a family, I would greatly prefer a professional woman as a wife, especially in these expensive times.

Novadina · 2022-06-01T18:35:11+00:00

“Equality” means equal rights and opportunities, not everyone having equal money and looks. You really think women want a man who has more rights than her?

Orange_Paisley · 2022-06-01T17:35:02+00:00

I am fine with an equal partner. Most women are. There might be some kinky types or fundie types who want to be their husband's handmaid or whatever, but generally we just want our opinions heard and respected, if not agreed to. Compromise is a thing that healthy couples are able to negotiate.

doggiedoc2004 · 2022-06-02T01:03:51+00:00

I’m in the professional class. I can speak to the upper class college educated. Most of my female peers seek equal partners or those males slightly more educated/slightly higher income. Most of my male peers also strongly prefer women with education and careers on their same level or very slightly lower. The educated men I know who dipped into the lower socioeconomic class for their partners mostly ended up with failed relationships with one exception. Most docs, vets, teachers, nurses, CPAs, lawyers I know are married to other professionals. On average those of us with BAs or higher who marry others with BAs have a higher and longer lasting marriage rate.

The interesting dynamic that is occurring is that more women are going to collage. By a lot. And most do not want to “marry down” so there will be a surplus of unattached college educated professional women in the coming years. A good move if you are a smart dude is to go to college and stay away from the STEM fields utterly dominated by unsocialized men. Become a physicians assistant, dentist, radiology tech, finance, teaching, higher level criminal justice … you will find a gal. Even if you are a short average looking man. Half the professional men I know are under 5’8 with great looking professional wives.

dr-korbo · 2022-06-01T18:02:00+00:00

Many men would be ok with a woman being greater. But they can't. Honestly if everybody (men and women) would aim for someone greater, no relationship would form.

Academic_Snow_7680 · 2022-06-01T18:03:36+00:00

Not true. I want equality.

WilliamWyattD · 2022-06-01T22:00:25+00:00

You cannot present these two impulses symmetrically. The female desire for a man that is above her is the driving force here; the male impulse is a defensive reaction. This is similar to height: women wanting a taller man is the original impulse, and men are leery of a taller partner due to the insecurity that they will not be able to satisfy women's desire.

However, I would not say this makes gender equality impossible. It is certainly a huge tension that needs acknowledging and consideration. But women's hypergamous desire for a man that is above her in some way is hard to completely articulate. What exactly women want, at core, is somewhat vague in terms of a man being above or better than her. Most women don't want men to be tyrannical pirate captains of the relationship.

Furthermore, we have to ask how much impact society stacking the deck in men's favor--cheating in effect--actually has in terms of satisfying this hypergamous urge of women's. Ultimately, women want a man who is somehow MORE than her in a very true and inherent way. So is we assume that men and women are equal, on average, in terms of capability, then the real issue is with monogamy, and with the goal of widespread monogamy especially.

In a polygamous setting, which MAY in some ways be more natural for our instincts overall, it would be easier to match more women with mates (to ensure species survival). Remember, men are more variable with longer tails in terms of the distribution of almost all male characteristics. So even for the most capable women--however we define capable--there will still likely be some men 'above' them. Thus, in a polygamous setting, you can basically meet hypergamy's demand by matching women, sometimes in pairs and groups, with 'better' men while just letting all the men who can't pair with a woman, and meet her hypergamous demands, fall out of the mating pool. That math checks out.

But if you try to mate almost all men, using monogamous pairings, the math only works if you cheat by giving men false status. You give all men an advantage in things like education, power, world experience, etc. like was done in the old days. I think, initially, this does help make the math work for widespread monogamous pairings. However, once in a relationship, I feel that the women eventually saw through the artificial enhancement of their man's ability and competence. Eventually, her true ranking vis a vis her man is deduced, and when these women found out that these men did not truly meet their hypergamous desires, the relationships soured quickly. The women were no longer happy. They felt cheated and became nagging and bitter, often ending up running the family and relationship as the stronger person--which they never wanted to be or do.

Best_Illustrator_137 · 2022-06-02T19:11:31+00:00

Real equality is equal opportunity not that their experiences have to be exactly tailored the same, that’s what most people think it is and it isn’t, it’s just equal opportunity that’s the true equality we should all have, not equal outcomes because that just can’t be possible.

06534956 · 2022-06-01T17:50:32+00:00

I wouldn’t say it’s as simple as a man wanting someone lesser or a woman wanting someone greater.

Men have a need to be helpful, to fill in a spot in a person’s life. It’s echoed in our biology and reproduction.

If a woman can do things by herself, and has no space for the man to fit in to, he’s not going to feel useful and like he’s needed.

Likewise for women. Our need isn’t as strong, but it’s still there. We finally have the laws and societal support to actually fulfill roles in society outside of having children. We fought really hard for this, and we wont let it go.

Smart couples know that both people have skills and training, and access to the training necessary, so the deciding factor between the distribution of jobs/roles isn’t based on need, but based on the desire.

Ayesaynay · 2022-06-01T17:39:54+00:00

Men don’t want women who are equal to them, they want women who have LESS MONEY so that they have leverage over them to make sure she is submissive and subservient but they still want attractive women on higher looks level not less. The only thing they will accept as less is her having less money.

flow3rpowr · 2022-06-01T17:40:29+00:00

Men want women who are equal / lesser but also average dudes deadass think that Zendaya is also average. I mean c'mon man.

DeliciousPussyNectar · 2022-06-01T17:45:25+00:00

This has nothing to do with equality.

PlayfulLawyer · 2022-06-01T18:26:29+00:00

No not really, I think both men and women enjoy the advantages that they actually have whether its nature or societal oh, yeah not everything is great but you know shit ain't Fair

localmicrodosechamp · 2022-06-01T22:38:21+00:00

People just weaponize “equality” to justify treating people like shit. We know people who talk like this dgaf about equality.

SoftAd6291 · 2022-06-02T12:15:12+00:00

We should be equal and have the same rights and opportunities of course. But I wish more young people would agree more that we are not completely equal. There’s a strong fight right now to prove that men and women have no differences physically and mentally, example the fight to have trans women (born biologically male) to compete in female sports. Because it doesn’t matter since men and women are and should be equal.

This is not true, during evolution both sexes developed differently and played specific roles in society for survival. Similar to how animals have different roles for male or female. It has played out this way until modern times, but you cannot rewrite biological code in such little time. Our brains, hormones, bodies, circadian rhythm etc. are different. this doesn’t make one gender weak and one strong, we are simply different and make each other complete.

Men and women are not equal. We will never be. And that’s completely okay.

TendieDinner777 · 2022-06-02T22:15:49+00:00

If you look at the most gender equal countries, women and men are actually more strongly gravitating toward their traditional careers, consciously or otherwise, to help play up their masculinity or femininity.

ReallyNinja_ · 2022-06-03T04:34:56+00:00

Men don’t want to be the main breadwinners men typically HAVE to be the main bread winner to end up with the girl he wants.

SweelFor- · 2022-06-01T17:18:05+00:00

Just based on these two truths.

Men want someone lesser.

Women want someone greater.

No. Next

apppppppbcppppppa-dc · 2022-06-01T17:18:49+00:00

As a man, I don't care if she's less, equal or more than me. I don't even think about it.

I don't want to depend on her, tho. I want to be able to take care of myself

baresquad · 2022-06-01T17:35:49+00:00

In my experience, women really don’t care for wanting somebody greater. A lot do, they want breadwinners and providers which is fine, they’re entitled to that but I’m never gonna be that, so my dating pool is exclusively women don’t care about this stuff, so it’s only reasonable to conclude that women are willing to date and fuck men who are “less than” or whatever

heartheartdoki96 · 2022-06-01T19:48:13+00:00

Lol no. Jesus you guys, why are you so bitter you have to make up shit like "women don't want equality really, they want to be dominated". Jesus christ.

januaryphilosopher · 2022-06-01T17:28:23+00:00

Most men prefer a woman who is meaner and nastier than them and looks uglier than them? News to me.

shonenhikada · 2022-06-01T17:36:31+00:00

You need to define what qualities you are looking at when you mention lesser or greater than. If we are talking about wealth and status, see my response below.

Men are fine dating a women who are his equal both socially and financially, provided of course that women still maintains her femininity, fertility and is attractive in his eyes. Hell, men are ok being in a relationship with women who are higher than him as long as she again still maintain these traits. Usually men date lesser because the women who are his equal or higher, that now want to give him a chance, often have lost much of their femininity and beauty, which men fine most important. Also, another reason men often choose to date lesser is due to hypergamy of women itself which results in women being resistant to the idea of ever considering dating men she deems lower than her.

Hell, your theory goes out the window when we look at the fact that young men are very willing to date women at high school and college settings when a lot of people have equal social and economic standings. Thus, giving credence to the argument of men willing to date their equal.

Summarize: women who often match older men in status and wealth lose their femininity, fertility and beauty which men find more important when considering a mate. Male's choice in selection pattern in mate is limited by female's willingness. Women being hypergamous by nature indirectly affects what choices men have in dating.

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relish5k · 2022-06-01T17:57:45+00:00

Aren't most people just looking for their "better half"? Why in the world would someone want someone "lesser" than themselves (if not to like, abuse them?)

ruboyuri · 2022-06-01T18:04:13+00:00

I don’t see hate, I see most adults balancing the self and others, as all social animals do. With varying degrees of success, of course

Flightlessbirbz · 2022-06-01T18:48:25+00:00

Men absolutely do not want someone lesser in terms of looks. And most don’t care much either way on the other stuff. Women tend to be fine with equal looks and are becoming more okay with equal on things like income now that they’re making more. I don’t know about other women, but I don’t want a dumb guy or one who can’t support himself, but I don’t need one who’s “better” than me. What counts is if we can manage together and help each other’s deficiencies, if that makes any sense. Overall, I’d say men and women both want someone “equal,” but different. Different priorities. Also, none of this has anything to do with equal rights.

GYN-k4H-Q3z-75B · 2022-06-01T19:37:09+00:00

That's stupid. Men don't want someone lesser, men want feminine women who are hot and agreeable. Women want masculine men, or maybe they don't -- they have pretty much failed at explaining what they want so far. The interpretation that they want someone "better" is from a male perspective and thus false. Women cannot explain what they want as a group.

In that situation, feminism comes in. Feminism tells everybody men are shitty, then tells women who act masculine and adopt manly behaviors that they are strong and worthy. Women embrace feminism, and the result is a kind of woman who is not exactly what men desire. That's okay, people should be how and what they want. Women don't exist to please men.

The reality about equality is that it cannot be achieved. We are a species of individuals. No two men are equal, and men and women will thus never be equal either. Men and women are unhappy because feminism has made them compete with each other in a way that is unnecessary. Women are forced to adopt a male role as well as retain their original female role, and men are forced to compete constantly.

byebyecivilrights · 2022-06-01T23:51:10+00:00

I think the reason why so many people are disagreeing with you is you didn't include a qualifier. I agree that most men want a woman who is equal or lesser in some way, just as most women want a man who is equal or greater in some way. But the way is different for everyone. Some men want virgins (less sexual experience), some women want professors (more education), some men want young women (less life experience), while some women want bad boys (more street smarts), and so on and so forth. It isn't always about looks and money.

OrganicPresence2578 · 2022-06-02T01:09:45+00:00

There is biological equality and equal rights. Only dumb idiots believe in biological and sociological equality. Equal rights is important and should be maintained

Monchi_21 · 2022-06-02T10:51:21+00:00

I agree in a way. I play guitar, it would be cool if my future gf would be a guitarist as well but if she was better then me I wouldn’t like that.

But that also goes with male friends, I rather be the better guitarist between my friends. Idk could be a me problem.

JoeRMD77 · 2022-06-02T18:54:57+00:00

Every woman I ever dated was "better" than me in the looks department. Job-wise, they can't compare.

sarkington · 2022-06-01T17:29:30+00:00

A man will say he’s ok with his wife being equal up until she doesn’t do what he wants

Most people get around either of these terrible conundrums by being functional adults who are flexible and able to trade and compromise

Lift_and_Lurk · 2022-06-01T17:33:27+00:00

Damn, we already got it to equal?
Ladies, you hear that?! Apparently it’s all good now? Hmmm: That’s an awful lot of laughter and middle fingers I think I’ll head to the closest Hooters and wonder why.

Jukingku22 · 2022-06-01T17:30:56+00:00

I agree that we are fighting biology these days. Women will never be satasfied with a man lesser then them and with men its more of a numbers game. It matters much less the quality of women and more of how many women. Just biology

gate18 · 2022-06-01T18:18:40+00:00

This is odd

Men want someone lesser. Women want someone greater.

Just because white people wanted black people to be slaves it doesn't mean black people wanted to be slaves.

Men want to be as great as they can, and women want to be as great as they can. To hell with what they want the other sex to be.

If you ask a most [people t]hey will say they want a [person] who is equal or lesser.

So they want to be equal!

The problem we are facing today is now that men and women are somewhat equal. Which clashes with our innate hierarchical behavior described above.

Nope, it clashes with our historical sexism. It has nothing to do with innateness. Historically women have been second class and still the powers that be, the cultural shapers are of that mentality.

But in reality most women and men will not be happy with a SO who is equal

We don't know that.

The reason it might not be possible is politics and power. And of course, just as we are taught to hate emigrants, Muslims, and non-whites, we are also bombarded to hate equality, at worst with "reasons" you provide, at best with the power of the law.

Your argument is Bob and Alice should not be equal because Bob doesn't want to be equal to Alice and Alice doesn't want to be equal to Bob

Ask Bob and Alice which one wants the short end of the stick then. Would you as a man be willing to help in the maintenance of inequality by willingly becoming less than women?

Ask them if they, say at 25, want to apply for a job, get different pay, get different promotions to ensure that Alice gets what she really wants: a boyfriend/husband that has bigger pay and has advanced more in his career.

Bob might be fine with that. Why wouldn't he be, it's like asking Bill Gates if he's ok with being richer than most people.

SeaSquirrel · 2022-06-02T00:39:50+00:00

Men want someone lesser in some way.

??????

Men want they best they can get tf you talking about?

Reisiluu · 2022-06-02T12:00:28+00:00

The problem we are facing today is now that men and women are somewhat equal. Which clashes with our innate hierarchical behavior described above.

False. A man who is better at one thing and worse at another thing is your equal, which satisfies all of these conditions.

Men want someone lesser in some way.

Women want someone greater in some way.

If you ask most young men and women today if they are ok being equal. They will say yes.

It's faulty logic to think that because a person is superior in one way they must be superior as a whole and therefore not of equal value.

Caring_Cactus · 2022-06-01T19:35:51+00:00

I think what both people, humans, want is someone who is accepting and understanding, this way they are appreciated, loved, and respected. A lot of people in general have strict or misguided values, which makes it harder for them to find something that is more universally fair and long-lasting.

SouthernGrass3 · 2022-06-01T19:40:39+00:00

Both parties desire more, but men don’t do well with the reality of being with a woman who is “more,” if that makes sense.

Men will try to go for women more desirable and charismatic/socially competent than them, and sometimes they achieve this, but they don’t like being in a subordinate position in a relationship, which tends to happen if you date someone above you.

Women are actually okay with the man being higher/dominant in the relationship, if it’s done respectfully.

DeJuanBallard · 2022-06-01T19:53:29+00:00

Men do not "want someone lesser" , that's just all they can get when women are as picky as they are.

Shredddz · 2022-06-01T20:00:07+00:00

yeah, but you have it somewhat confused. men dont think of equal in terms of the same metrics. They dont want someone lesser, they just want someone with different attributes than themselves. thats not more or less. but men and women are hierarchical by nature, and men wanting to lead women and for women to submit to them has nothing to do with viewing them as "lesser", because men don’t compare themselves with women in terms of abilities they dont value. men are physically stronger and have a logical brain and are braver and made for leadership pressure, and have the qualities to lead women and desire that and logically need this to take the risk of commitment.

there is no implied evaluation of lesser or more in a hierarchical sense. men measure themselves against men in term of more or less status etc, but talking about men wanting someone lesser is off because the absolut more in terms of leadership is the man by default, and men naturally seek someone who is needy and has elements of weakness to protect and care about to be fulfilled.

There really isnt a judgement implied in this at all, just following instincts

Shredddz · 2022-06-01T20:05:41+00:00

yeah, but you have it somewhat confused. men dont think of equal in terms of the same metrics. They dont want someone lesser, they just want someone with different attributes than themselves. thats not more or less. but men and women are hierarchical by nature, and men wanting to lead women and for women to submit to them has nothing to do with viewing them as "lesser", because men don’t compare themselves with women in terms of abilities they dont value. men are physically stronger and have a logical brain and are braver and made for leadership pressure, and have the qualities to lead women and desire that and logically need this to take the risk of commitment.

there is no implied evaluation of lesser or more in a hierarchical sense. men measure themselves against men in term of more or less status etc, but talking about men wanting someone lesser is off because the absolut more in terms of leadership is the man by default, and men naturally seek someone who is needy and has elements of weakness to protect and care about to be fulfilled.

There really isnt a judgement implied in this at all, just following instincts

AllinairHanson · 2022-06-01T20:33:27+00:00

It feels like that the lesser/greater relationship may be something that most people want, but is likely less aligned with gender then may be thought

I’ve seen many posts and talk from and about more submissive guys or dominant girls, and it just feels like an imbalance in certain aspects may be a natural way of a relationship forming, with the ups and downs of both members balancing out

Anykindofland · 2022-06-01T21:16:01+00:00

Men want someone lesser

Lesser in what regard? Looks? Income? Intelligence? And why should men want someone like that?

I doubt that anyone wants to date someone who they see as below them. Most people want a partner on the same level or above.

FoxCQC · 2022-06-01T21:21:38+00:00

Not true, I'd happily date a woman greater than me. Ideally someone equal would be best though.

briiiana1122 · 2022-06-01T21:31:12+00:00

Does this mean the end of men whining about how they can’t get a woman that’s equal to them?

Time to close this sub down.

Lateralanouncer · 2022-06-01T22:40:03+00:00

This is actualy a fantastic topic.

Firstly. Men and woman are different so the lesser better notion is not relative.

Secondly, for a woman to be attracted to a man hypergamy dictates in her eyes he can not be her equal. Feminist with this idealoligy are unable to love men so should be avoided for ltr and above.

AidsVictim · 2022-06-01T22:47:24+00:00

If you ask a most men. They will say they want a women who is equal or lesser.

I don't really think this is true . Men typically want "feminine" women who fit into some vague idea of a female cultural sphere. They may or may not, consciously or unconsciously, view this as "lesser" but I doubt most men are explicitly looking for that.

Most men believe (mostly correctly I think) that women are attracted to and looking for men who are more socially, physically, or financially dominant than them and other men who are in the same potential dating group (which is massive in the context of modern dating).

Likewise men are attracted to and seek women who are more stereotypically attractive/feminine but they seem to have a much easier time settling and being content with average. Average for women is still fairly attractive to men and sexual competition/comparison is typically less severe for women. Women largely don't need to compete for access to average men, only the top 5% (or whatever %) who have substantial options.

If you ask most young men and women today if they are ok being equal. They will say yes. But in reality most women and men will not be happy with a SO who is equal. That is one of the fundamental problems with gender equality and why it will likely never be possible.

I don't think there is equivalency here. There's a gender asymmetry in how attractive and satisfactory "average" is and has little to do with men seeing women as "lesser", they may or may not see women that way but it affects their attraction relatively little. It doesn't have much to do with men hating the idea of being "equal" with women.

SodaSodaSoda4 · 2022-06-02T02:56:25+00:00

If you ask most young men and women today if they are ok being equal. They will say yes. But in reality most women and men will not be happy with a SO who is equal.

This is not the same Are you specifically only talking about relationships or men and women as a greater whole? Because men and women do other things besides dating. Some don't even date at all. So to try to say that some individuals prefer an unequal balance in their relationship means that men and women as a larger whole don't want to be equal is unfair.

beleidigtewurst · 2022-06-02T08:51:03+00:00

It is more one sided than it sounds, as "committment" is a one way street.

Men do not look for it, women do, and it is a path to bending over backwards (often).

It is also not because women are evil or something, but due to our biology and 95% of our history as species, with no pill and depending on partner to provide resources and protect.

MarBitt · 2022-06-02T11:08:46+00:00

No two people are completely equal in all respects, but people usually want someone in their league.

Yes, women often want someone who exceeds them. But this may be simply because women in certain respects (ability to give birth, female vs. male sexual strategies) have advantages and so they are looking for men who balance these advantages with higher height, strength, money, status ... to create roughly equality in relationship.

And men are aware of their disadvantages in the sex market (one man can more easily fertilize more women, so the individual man is easier to replace when reproducing society), so they are looking for a woman to whom they will have certain advantages (they will protect her) to also create roughly equality.

You are right that in a society where there are more educated, well-earned women and the less valuable the brute force and ability to fight, there is a growing group of women (at the top) and men (at the bottom), for whom it is difficult to find an equal counterpart. But that doesn't mean men and women hate equality generally.

Zoidberg8899 · 2022-06-02T14:28:34+00:00

I don't think most men care if their partner is equal or more than them, it's just that those women don't want him

SwaySh0t · 2022-06-02T15:29:33+00:00

Equality doesn’t exist in nature even in our legal system. Mother Nature, evolution etc does not incentivize equality either

PaleoPimp · 2022-06-01T17:47:37+00:00

Men and women aren't equal and never will be.

Ex_Machina_1 · 2022-06-02T01:05:01+00:00

My god this sub, full of a bunch of 12 year olds thinking they know shit about dating.

Title	Men and Women BOTH hate being equal
Author	Coolio_Street_Racer
Upvotes	49
Comments	420
Date	June 1, 2022 5:15 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/v2m1ip/men_and_women_both_hate_being_equal/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/men-and-women-both-hate-being-equal.1117730 https://theredarchive.com/post/1117730

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