Question for men

captainchippsixx · 2023-07-04T21:52:20+00:00

I would stand your ground. If she doesn’t want to marry you and a fair prenup, then she is not the right one. Marriage is a shit show.

I suggest having a infidelity clause at least. Cheater gets nothing.

Gattsama · 2023-07-04T22:12:07+00:00

Listen, you are in the Divorce_Men forum so you are going to get somewhat biased advise. Her refusal to sign a prenup is a concern. But here's the real question, why do you need to legally marry her?

What does your relationship lack, that the government needs to get involved with? Does the legal document: stop cheating, lying, fights, etc?

Understand that the marriage contract _IS_ a prenup. It's a legal document that states how assets and debts will be dived if the contract is broken. BUT instead of it being on your terms, it's done based on the governments terms. And currently those terms suck monkey balls :)

There is zero benefit to the contract for men, especially men that are the primary earner in the relationship. My advise is to make the commitment to a monogamous relationship, have the ceremony and exchange rings. Accept the titles and plan a life together. But do NOT sign the governments crappy legal contract. Because it's not a contract between you and your wife, it's a contract between you and the state.

It's not just that 50% of marriages end in divorce (horrible odds to bet your life against), nor that 80% of divorces are initiated by women; it's that you can do everything right and the current system incentives divorce.

Worst case scenario, you get married and she stays home with the 2.5kids and you work. 10+ years later (CA) no one has cheated, no drugs, no abuse, nothing is wrong. But she's just not happy, doesn't matter why = no fault. She hasn't worked for 10 years and the kids are 1, 3, 5. You owe her spousal support for the rest of her life! Let me repeat that, for the rest of both your lives you are her wage slave. The contract ends but your financial obligations do not! It's a crappy contract.

Sea-Shallot · 2023-07-04T22:14:18+00:00

DO NOT GET MARRIED!

turbor · 2023-07-04T23:31:50+00:00

Here’s a typical scenario that happens to a lot of men and is based on gender roles, social biases, and human nature.

A couple falls in love and gets married. Maybe it’s a first marriage, maybe a second. If it’s a first, neither has assets anyway so a prenup is pointless. If it’s a second, the guy is probably so thrilled to finally be “over” his first ex that he’s over the moon to be moving on with his life. Whatever assets he has, are things he’s used as selling points in the dating phase. He’s happy to sell whatever investments he has to start a new life with his new wife. Happy to roll it all into building that home together, or having a new child and family. If he’s the high earner, he’s happy to use his salary to pay all the household bills. He takes pride in it as a man, especially if there’s a pregnancy. That protective instinct just takes over and he finds himself going into the jungle to face the wild beasts so that his wife and child may eat, proverbially. If anyone is saving, contributing to a 401k, it’s him. The sacrifice gives him a sense of investment and protection over his family.

In such a scenario, the wife doesn’t sacrifice, doesn’t invest. Not financially anyway. Certainly through pregnancy, but that’s not what we’re talking about. We’re talking about the disparity in finances in a divorce. Something about not paying the piper tends to give a sense of entitlement and sometimes resentment. Resentment if he’s more fiscally conservative than she’d like. Add whatever exit scenario you’d like and then divorce.

The man tallies up the cost. The investments he poured into the marriage, the higher CS and alimony because he professed his love by providing for her, at cost to his own interests. But let’s be honest, her and the child were his main interest. Still. Suddenly she finds a Chad and he learns how fickle modern marriage is. And how he is heartbroken and struggling to afford an apartment. It costs him tens of thousands in attorney fees to unravel the marriage, plus the loss of the assets like home and 401k that he viewed as primarily his because, well, he’s been the one who paid for them. Then he looks back at the assets he sold to invest in the marriage and computes what they would be worth now. Ugh.

Prenups have a place, for this reason. The real challenge is being disciplined enough to not commingle premarital assets. More importantly, all men should have a healthy understanding that marriage is a business partnership that will likely end. Is she investing in that business? If not, why?

Because he’s in love with her and would give anything for that feeling and security to continue.

Dangerous game, fellas.

RockandRollGuitars · 2023-07-04T22:05:06+00:00

Save all of your statements and proof of net worth from date of marriage. Most banks only keep it for seven years and if you’re bringing lots of net worth in, you need to prove it to keep it in most jurisdictions.

You don’t have to sign the marriage certificate. Have all the fun and party and then don’t sign the contract. Stay technically unmarried. Common law partnership laws may screw you either way, so this isn’t foolproof.

She’s not signing because she wants protection. Sorry to say, but you’ve got less than 50% chance of staying together and she’s likely to be the one to file (80%+ divorces initiated by women).

Put your foot down now and she will have less incentive to blow your marriage up later. Plus, it’s good practice because you’re going to have to get comfortable putting your foot down and dealing with her anger and disappointment. The funny thing is, she’ll probably respect you more than she will if you give in to what she wants.

Basic_Advance7627 · 2023-07-04T22:04:53+00:00

Don’t worry about if it’s illegal. Put cash away and do not tell her. I’m sorry, I’m probably jaded, but I will not loose everything I’ve worked for to another woman ever again.

playerknowmore · 2023-07-04T23:01:52+00:00

80% of divorces are initiated by women. 98% of people getting spousal support after divorce are women. Women are rewarded child custody, 90% of divorces. Most states divide property 50/50 in most divorces no matter who made what.

Only get married if you are strong enough to let someone you love go. Only women get to be happy in marriage. Men survive in contentment. Keeping a woman happy is an impossible task. Finally, you can do everything right and still get divorced.

strangerthaaang · 2023-07-04T22:41:26+00:00

Won’t sign a prenup then she’s got a plan already.

captainjacksparrow84 · 2023-07-04T23:47:46+00:00

You have read the horror stories and statistics, and yet you still want to get married? Why? Do you knowingly walk on a plane to get someplace with the air carrier advertising an above 50% crash rate? Or that if you get on this plane and somehow survive the emotional hell that's divorce, that when you walk off the plane you have a 10x higher chance of committing suicide because of divorce? Bro, DON'T GET MARRIED. I just spent 75k on Attorneys fees and PI fees, and I still have to give my ex ontop of that another 400k in equity from a house she put zero money into. Oh, and let's say you have a kid, you are the higher earner, so pay up, and oh by the way, she will accuse you of being violent, angry, and emotionally abusive, and you might see your kid every other weekend, you are being shelled and nuked before you even know whats up. Why? because women initiate 80% of the divorces and you will never see it coming.

BEFORE YOU GET MARRIED GO INTO DIVORCE DAY AT YOUR LOCAL FAMILY COURT. Why? because you will likely be there when your marriage fails. If you believe nothing of what I said, go get a consultation with a divorce attorney, get her paystubs and yours, and see how screwed you will be. Might be the best $400 you ever spent. Then go into divorce day at your local family court, ask your attorney when it is. Take the day off work and sit there, and watch the horror play out in front of you. I wish I had done the same before I got married. If I had known what I know now, I'd never have gotten married. Why? Because If I knock up some hoe on the street I will have to pay her child support no matter what. At least I won't have to give her half of my assets in 10 years which yours will be significantly more than hers.

iSurvivedltd · 2023-07-05T00:06:51+00:00

Bro. Don’t get married if she doesn’t sign.

It takes two people to get married and one to want a divorce.

Let that sink in.

MartyMcFly7 · 2023-07-04T22:28:42+00:00

Of course she doesn't want to sign a prenup! You're the high earner and she'll get paid whether it works out or not.

If you spend all the money while married and simply assume you'll divorce one day, then you won't be able to save for retirement. Also, she could still receive alimony based on your earnings, so that's not really a solution.

If she won't sign the prenup, but still insists she loves you, just cohabitate long term. If she truly loves you and it works out, you'll stay together! If she doesn't or it doesn't work out, you've saved yourself a fortune!

Consider Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos. It didn't matter that they were friggin' billionaires, their wives still left them! Had these men chosen to merely cohabitate, there's a good chance their wives/girlfriends would have tried MUCH harder to make their husband's happy.

Even if you're not rich, the high earner always gets screwed when things don't work out.

I'm now cohabitating and it's soooo much better than being married. The love and connection is just as strong. We don't fight over each other's spending. There's no huge legal expense or alimony if things don't work out. I know she remains here because she wants to be here. I also think we treat each other better than most married couples, because either one of us can leave.

hikeruntravellive · 2023-07-05T00:06:34+00:00

Learn from our mistakes. Do you think any of us got married planning divorce? We were all in love with the perfect woman just like you. Yet here we are.

Don’t get married. If you must get married then at the very least make sure that you have her sign the prenup. If she doesn’t sign it then she’s already planning the divorce and had her eyes on your stash of cash. Don’t be a fool. Learn from our mistakes.

Token_or_TolkienuPOS · 2023-07-05T03:23:58+00:00

"She won't sign the prenup".

So she's already running the show before you even walk down that aisle. This definitely won't last.

AudreyTooTwo · 2023-07-05T15:12:19+00:00

is there any reason to not just blow any extra
income on enjoyment in marriage?

I get your point. But yes, there is a reason. When a marriage ends, and the women is looking to cash-out, very often her standard of living is a factor. I don't know if this is explicitly codified into the laws of every state. But you will hear women talking about how alimony, for example, is meant to 'equalize' or 'maintain' her standard of living.

Let's make up some numbers. You earn $150k, she earns $50k. Together, you can afford a nice house, nice cars, perhaps a luxury vacation to Europe every year or some other indulgence. After all, you said it yourself: just blow your cash on enjoyable things.

Then, then marriage ends. She'll be left with her $50k job and some scumbag lawyer will remind her she's STILL ENTITLED to the nice house, nice car, vacations in Europe, and so on. And you'd be surprised how far that thought process goes, and how it motivates people. She won't ever think of herself again as "a person who only makes $50k a year". No, she'll think of herself as someone who DESERVES much more.

Then, you've got yourself a real problem.

I_Touched_Grass · 2023-07-04T21:48:59+00:00

How does one "stash cash illegally"? Just have cash, and keep it hidden tbh.

Best case, you have an emergency fund for unexpected expenses. Worst case you have an emergency fund for an unexpected divorce.

Countsbeans1976 · 2023-07-04T23:04:21+00:00

So, the answer for this is retirement. Extra cash should go into retirement and paying down debt. That being said, I wager you have some pretty significant student loans if you’re making what I think you’re making. So you can probably yeet 100k into that pretty easily. The courts don’t look at debt eliminated as an asset.

The question is, is refusing to do a prenup the only huge red flag? Cause it’s a big one. It would protect both of you, and her being hesitant to do it is very worrisome.

How does she act when she is triggered? Does she go full Karen at all when things go wrong? Understand, she’s on her best behavior now. It’s gonna change when you two say I do and rarely is it positive.

The old joke about the food that cuts a woman’s sex drive by 75% being wedding cake is no joke.

DatabaseSpace · 2023-07-04T22:21:57+00:00

As soon as she files for divorce she will be eligible for spousal support and you will have to pay alimony since there is an income difference. She will also get part of your 401k if you have one. Separate accounts are fine but in family law that doesn’t matter. She will get money from your accounts. If she had assets to protect you can bet your ass she would make you sign one. They know what they are doing.

Zealousideal-Bear-37 · 2023-07-04T22:41:58+00:00

Uhhhhhh she will not sign a pre nup? Huge red flag there bud . I’d figure that out .

BarrtonMaryland · 2023-07-04T23:05:56+00:00

You can try premarital counseling, but I'd stick to the prenup. It guarantees both parties are compromising and are accepting of anything that could potentially go wrong with the marriage and keeps both parties safe.

Cuz who's to say that she can't you know become a higher earner than yourself and then she would have the concern of being at the disadvantage.

Wish you the best of luck, and hopefully she will come around. Worst case scenario you have heartache but you're still financially whole.

potatotornado44 · 2023-07-05T00:14:14+00:00

If she won’t sign a prenup affirming that she won’t touch your retirement, or ask for spousal support. I would seriously reconsider marrying this girl.

soundbarrier47 · 2023-07-05T07:15:38+00:00

Brother, if she’s refusing to sign a prenup, that’s a huge red flag. In a divorce, a 50/50 split is a loss for the woman. Depending on the state, most don’t award the wife much of anything if the marriage is under 10 years.

I knew my marriage was heading for divorce in 2019, but when shit hit the fan in March 2020 with Covid, that delayed the process. I used the CARES ACT to withdraw $95k from my 401k and had it deposited into my sister’s account, then took a loan for an additional $35k and put that as well into my sisters savings account. I filed back in January, her attorney only asked for 2 years worth of all financial statements! So she got statements from Jan 2021 until present time. When all was said and done, no alimony (god bless Tx) and she only got $23k from my 401k. Her attorney promised she’d be able to get her 2years of alimony, but the judge ruled against them. So I’m just waiting for the waters to settle, and early next year, I’ll have my sister write me a check for $130k

boltmaker12 · 2023-07-05T13:04:27+00:00

It sounds like you are justifying a bad decision by making another bad decision.

Choosing not to build wealth because you are already expecting her to leave and clean you out is not using good judgement.

Build wealth while single, find a good girl, sign a prenup or just live with them. This girl is already planning her exit strategy if she won't sign

Ren87z · 2023-07-05T00:56:39+00:00

Dude! If she wont sign a prenup to me thats a res flag! Dont marry her. I married thinking it was for life and 6 years later i am getting fucked with half. My retirement, stocks and crypto accounts that i build throughout the years with hard work and educating myself. Now she will take half without making any contribution to my portfolios. Again, prenup or dont marry her.

Retying3043 · 2023-07-05T00:58:30+00:00

If she won’t sign a pre-nup, she is making her intentions clear. Call off the wedding and retain your freedom.

northdakotact · 2023-07-05T01:21:04+00:00

I am engaged

Run while you still can.

Head-Adhesiveness113 · 2023-07-05T01:41:44+00:00

It’s not all about the prenup. The prenup will help if you’re both working full time and have no kids at the time of divorce. You’re not bringing in significant assets so you’re really trying to shield your future income from your wife. If you have kids and she becomes a stay at home mom, then good luck with that prenup. The state won’t pay for your wife and kids if you can. They will make you to take care of everyone. So unless you want to have a family and sign up to take care of them for life, married or not, don’t get married and don’t have kids.

Adventurous-Box-745 · 2023-07-05T02:05:14+00:00

I'm only surprised that despite the bright red flag, you still want to continue with this marriage. Run for the chopper

Mindless-Kiwi-4113 · 2023-07-05T02:35:55+00:00

You’re getting married and currently have no intention of the marriage ending? Perhaps you should poll the men on here and ask how many thought we would be on this stupid sub when we got married. If she won’t sign a prenup she’s not valuing your concerns and wishes already 🚩

NarwhalFuzzy8110 · 2023-07-05T04:15:31+00:00

Red flags already.. don't do it just don't it's really not worth the pain. Stop while you are ahead.

diamadjinn · 2023-07-05T05:59:10+00:00

If she won’t sign a prenup, then she’s already showing her true intentions. She will do everything in her power to manipulate you and gaslight you into thinking that you wanting a prenup is a sign that you aren’t committed to her, when in reality she’s hedging her bets. If you marry without a prenup you will regret it for the rest of your life, I promise you.

ww3historian · 2023-07-05T08:01:44+00:00

Blowing money on enjoyment vs saving it just because your fiancée won’t sign a prenup is a terrible way to live. Just stay single, make and save money, and get someone better later on

bddfcinci707 · 2023-07-05T09:42:28+00:00

First off, she is gaslighting you. The old "why do I need to sign a prenuptial? Are you planning to divorce me?" Trick is as old as they come. What it really means is " i have no plans to divorce you now, but should I ever change my mind I would like to be entitled to half or more of your assets + cs + alimony." If she won't sign, she doesn't love you dude. By getting married you are investing everything into her. And you are the breadwinner. So make her invest something too. Even if its only the risk that she walks away with only half of what you guys build during the marriage. That way you are both taking close to an equal amount of risk. My wife knew I had nothing when we got married. Everything we have, we built together. She took a risk marrying me. That was her investment. 10 years and 4 kids (3 alive) later, and we still love each other and still build together.

IceDue123 · 2023-07-05T12:25:30+00:00

While both of you are deciding to get married it only takes one (90% wife if she is college educated) to get a divorce. You can do everything right and still lose. Don’t get married but if you do a prenup is a must. If she won’t sign that’s YOUR sign.

Alias_mumei · 2023-07-05T17:03:56+00:00

Lol Bro 😂 don't kill yourself in the process Prolong until she finally decides to sign

valkyrie_rider · 2023-07-05T18:57:14+00:00

You will have a prenup contract, either written by you or written by the State if you do nothing.

Choose wisely.

collegekid1357 · 2023-07-04T22:06:57+00:00

I think you would be suprised, like I was originally, that prenups aren’t all they’re cracked up to be in movies. I am not a lawyer by any means and each state can be different, but: prenups only protect assets you had before the marriage. In my state, Ohio, when going through a divorce, they separate property into “separate” and “marital” properties. Then, only the marital property is able to be divided during the divorce. So in this idea, a prenup is pointless.

Then, since it only protects pre-marital assets, it does not protect your earnings while married, which your partner would be entitled to a portion of. (I’m not a fan of it in MY situation, but I remember that it does help victims leave abusers in other situations). So in that idea too, a prenup would be pointless.

AGAIN, NOT A LAWYER.

Dangerous_Item_6879 · 2023-07-04T22:18:00+00:00

Approximately how much pre-marital assets are you bringing to the table?

pk2at · 2023-07-04T22:27:19+00:00

get a LEGAL SEPARATION after marriage if available in your state. It costs measly $300 and you can file online, NO NEED TO DISCLOSE ANY FINANCES, two simple forms without any lawyers. If you are ignorant of this option or incapable of understanding how it is better than a prenup, I suggest you not marry.

ApolloRevived · 2023-07-04T23:24:40+00:00

Please elaborate on why she won't sign a prenup

throwaway0677645 · 2023-07-05T02:29:59+00:00

Hitting a net zero on entertainment is foolish. Build your wealth with a portion but enjoy life. Life is a long endeavor and if you have raising prospects than build on that. If you need a prenup (which if there is disparity of prospect) and she wont sign, it is a premonition that you will lose more than you want to. DON’T marry WITHOUT what you believe is the right circumstances.

hpsportsfanatic · 2023-07-05T03:44:49+00:00

Stand your ground. I screwed up with no prenup. Stand your ground

Jmovic · 2023-07-05T09:37:31+00:00

Don't fall for it chief, sign that prenup. She may try to guilt trip you about protecting yourself while she's refusing to protect her self.

SIGN IT!!

Jmovic · 2023-07-05T09:38:23+00:00

Don't fall for it chief, sign that prenup. She may try to guilt trip you about protecting yourself while she's refusing to protect her self.

SIGN IT!!

ArtichokeSavings9472 · 2023-07-05T14:40:26+00:00

Isnt the statistic that about 80% of divorces are initiated by the Woman? Of course she doesn’t want to sign it but it protects you and all of your assets. I know countless men who have lost everything or have to pay alimony to watch her take your house and move a new guy in .

look_left_quick · 2023-07-05T17:07:44+00:00

The more valid argument would be that you don’t go forward with the marriage without a prenuptial agreement. You are protecting yourself, and what you have achieved already. If she is unwilling, I would recommend having an extremely tough discussion with her. There are no valid points for her not wanting to agree to it, and it may be much more of a red flag than you realize. If you can’t set any ground rules while you’re in love; and looking forward to more tomorrows, this will be exponentially worse than you expect if things do sour. Protect yourself first, and it’s okay to postpone things until you are comfortable.

hotantipasta · 2023-07-05T18:37:39+00:00

You need to pay for a separate attorney that she chooses and hires to represent her. That attorney can advise her on the agreement. Prenups go both ways, they can outline how the marriage will be dissolved in the event of a divorce, only it's done ahead of time when emotions and tempers don't play a part. Let her have some input on what is in the agreement (with your attorney's approval). Make the document fair and balanced, this should ease her concerns.

If she is just a hard no on any prenup, then you should reconsider your pending nuptials.

Kitchen-EngineerX · 2023-07-05T21:18:42+00:00

Well, and debts, don’t forget. In a divorce in most states, she’d get half the assets and half the debt. There’s a story here from a while back where the guy was a new-ish doctor, his wife cheated, they were in California. Very little in assets but he had 250k in medical school student loans. The wife has to pay 125K of his debt 😄

VileReddFalcon · 2023-07-06T00:34:26+00:00

Go with your gut.

At this moment, what does she have to lose in a divorce? Pretend and fast forward 5 years. Maybe throw a kid or 2 in there. What does she stand to lose? If you can honestly answer nothing, then your “statistics and horror stories” might be your answer. GL either way

cryptus-maximus · 2023-07-06T18:06:56+00:00

The divorce court is looking at both income and expenses. Your idea about having "net zero surplus" ie. NO SAVINGS is ridiculous both from a financial planning perspective and as a divorce strategy. Your ex will claim that the lifestyle will need to be maintained post-divorce and guess who's going to pay for that? You!

Look, I asked about a prenup with my ex and she refused citing the typical fairy tale bullshit about why its not necessary if we really loved each other. Don't buy it, she is not an exception to the rule.

EVEN if you earn the same or less, having a child with this woman and getting a divorce will push the scales in her favor. Like many already said here, legal marriage is unnecessary.

wisstinks4 · 2023-07-04T22:01:50+00:00

I would simplify the prenup as much as possible or a barrier for her to move forward. Discuss Her concerns and what are your concerns, work it out. go get hitched then enjoy smashing on your honeymoon.

Data_Fan · 2023-07-05T01:19:08+00:00

Thats the right attitude

Prenups are rarely worth it, so long as you keep your accounts separate and save all your documents

Its 50-50 like alot of things in life. Go for it

Good luck

Fyfel · 2023-07-05T22:09:13+00:00

Realistically you don’t have enough wealth nor earn enough to justify a prenup. Plus you requiring a prenup shows your fiancé you’re not fully committed to the marriage and can back out at any time. Unless you’re already a millionaire a prenup isn’t justified.

allendale100000 · 2023-07-04T22:53:45+00:00

What assets do you currently have? What is your current net worth?

grandpaharoldbarnes · 2023-07-05T00:15:29+00:00

No worries… your pre-nuptial “extra income” will mysteriously disappear. Meaning: current monthly obligations will be eclipsed by post-nuptial obligations.

Mountain_Collar_7620 · 2023-07-05T07:10:56+00:00

I got talked into marriage for romantic / “I need aid” related reasons at a time things seemed impossible to ever change from angels and pink clouds - I insisted and arranged a prenup to the “shotgun” arrangements. Fast Forward 10 years -> Hell ☠️. Fast Forward another 3 years -> I’m older wiser traumatised & sad BUT intact financially minus the costs of conflict, restoration and .. trauma if I had children and no prenup I’d now be a perma-shackled Slave living in a wasteland.

DO insist on a pre-nup, DO NOT have children (“hostages”) unless you’re 120% sure or it’s a rich fat Arab lady who married YOU without a prenup

OR skip the entire Alien experience skip all the blood,tears and crying not to mention the 💵 skip to “collect 50$” and Live Happily on your own.

🦐 “It’s A Trap 🪤!!”

soundbarrier47 · 2023-07-05T18:07:35+00:00

Protect yourself fellow Kings! Do not show mercy or kindness, because like many have stated, she will NOT show the same for you years down the line. If she refuses to sign, then postpone the wedding if not cancel. Make it very clear, your retirement is all yours and she is not entitled to any of it! Keep separate accounts, I’ve seen many times where the wife empty’s the joint account, and when that happens, there is nothing the bank can do about it, because she’s joint on the account and has equal rights to the money.

MaintainMySoup · 2023-07-06T03:37:42+00:00

Honestly, I won't tell you to get married or not, it is a conscious decision between two people who love each other. Do you need to get married in this day and age? No, absolutely not. The benefit is not there. At one time marriage was an institution for family and sharing lives. Now it is a financial institution, plain and simple. If you all can agree to live and love as you are now, then please try to maintain the commitment without the marriage part. Again, you do what you feel is right, but this is my two cents.

LonelyNC123 · 2023-07-06T12:11:26+00:00

Well.....do you ever plan to RETIRE? If so, you can't just blow money non-stop. In fact, married or not, you need to be saving now!. I would write a Harvard Business Case Study called 'How to let planning for retirement and college for your child poison your relationship'.

I advise all young men to NEVER get married. If you insist on getting married, have a Pre-Nup. No pre-nup, no marriage.

There are billions of women on this planet. If this one walks another one will come along.

Limp_Comfort7329 · 2023-07-09T11:02:42+00:00

Same here!! Kind of annoying!! I paid $2000 monthly for her and her kids

Title	Question for men
Author	CravenMoorehead143
Upvotes	4
Comments	124
Date	July 4, 2023 9:42 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/Divorce_Men
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/Divorce_Men/comments/14qrvbh/question_for_men/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/Divorce_Men/question-for-men.1224318 https://theredarchive.com/post/1224318

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