If hypergamy is real why do you think that listening to men is useful?

Shoddy-Cherry-490 · 2026-03-02T17:12:41+00:00

I think you have inadvertently misrepresented the 2 ideas you base your argument on.

1) “Women’s dating advice is useless”: A woman’s perspective can be incredibly useful, but ultimately it will always be the woman’s perspective, in other words the experience of getting far too much attention from the opposite gender won’t be all that useful for men who are trying to generate more attention for themselves. Women and men ultimately deal with very different problem sets in dating.

2) “Women only go for the same top guys:” First of all, the 20/80 thing (or 5/95) isn’t exactly synonymous with hypergamy but it is to a degree an expression of it.

More importantly though, you are talking about the specific dynamics associated with online dating, where women can have access to a far greater pool of men than vice versa. Considering the enormous amount of attention women can generate almost instantly explains why in fact women inevitably will filter for only the best candidates.

wtknight · 2026-03-02T16:35:23+00:00

why is male advice supposed to be so much more valuable than female advice?

Because the idea is that men are supposed to seek advice from the men who are successful, not the ones who are not.

DiscombobulatedTop8 · 2026-03-02T16:35:20+00:00

Men are able to look around them and see which men are getting dates. Based on what they observe in other people, they can form advice that may be useful.
In my experience, men are more willing to plainly state what they see around them, rather than to filter it through the lens of what feels good to hear.

Outrageous-Floor-424 · 2026-03-02T16:45:27+00:00

When you play golf, do you not look at what better players are doing in order to improve?

WebNew9978 · 2026-03-02T17:05:12+00:00

Women’s advice and actions often contradict each other. Women may tell a guy struggling with dating to be confident and be himself. Yet when he does become those things, no woman wants to be with him. Why? Because he’s too ugly for them.

Whereas with the successful men, their words of advice and action don’t contradict each other. If a successful man says you need a 6 pack of abs, be emotionally intelligent and have a good career in order to get with women, their actions back up their words. They do the things mentioned

SummerBreeze750 · 2026-03-02T17:32:10+00:00

If 80–99% of men are (by this logic) clueless and/or unsuccessful, why is male advice supposed to be so much more valuable than female advice?

I don't think it necessarily is more valuable.

I think the issue is that (1) society cloaks women with a lot of undeserved credibility; and (2) intuitively, it seems like women would have insight into what women find attractive.

Therefore men need to be reminded to put little weight on what women say attracts them.

There's also a separate issue, which is that a lot of men who struggle with dating, especially young men, tend to pedestalize women, which ironically undermines their chances. Learning that women are not necessarily all that Wonderful helps men get into a more productive frame of mind.

YourMrFahrenheit · 2026-03-02T16:41:22+00:00

The modern red pill is basically the old black pill, “if you don’t check 8 of these 10 hyper specific and mostly genetically determined boxes, you’re doomed.”

The old red pill was, “you’re not as successful with women as you’d like because you don’t understand what women want, because women either lie to themselves or to you about what they want. You’d have more success ENGAGING WITH WOMEN IN REAL LIFE and learning for yourself how people act.”

The whole basis for this sub was to get red and blue pill people together to respectfully discuss the nuanced ways in which cultural narratives about women (and men) are or are not accurate, and to what degree. But it’s devolved as people are separating the narratives further apart rather than finding the common ground.

Zabadoodude · 2026-03-02T16:50:55+00:00

The most useful advice comes from people of your own gender that aren't born with advantages you aren't born with, but still have the dating life you want.

Women still date men that aren't in the top 20%, but it's much harder to get them to be strongly attracted.

Getting in the top 20% isn't even that difficult. Most men are out of shape, can't dress, and have poor social skills.

MarioWilson122 · 2026-03-02T22:07:31+00:00

why is male advice supposed to be so much more valuable than female advice?

Because successful men understand how to best go about getting women. Something that women dont need to understand and in most cases don't care to either. So no reason to get advice from such a person.

Feeling_Ad_1034 · 2026-03-02T19:04:46+00:00

Because men who have moved into the x% that aren't 'Invisible' would be able to tell you how they did it.

CelicnisGhost · 2026-03-02T20:40:29+00:00

If 80–99% of men are (by this logic) clueless and/or unsuccessful, why is male advice supposed to be so much more valuable than female advice?

SUCCESSFUL male advice.

InterestingGoose5507 · 2026-03-02T21:16:26+00:00

Reality would contradict you! Women might prefer the top men but they won’t date them unless they are the top women themselves. Similarly the average man is more attracted to the top women but the difference is he doesn’t have access to easy sex from the them.

Rule 1 is true for one reason: women gaslight, lie to protect feelings etc. If they were brutally honest their advice might be useful.

Odd-Yoghurt1869 · 2026-03-02T16:36:45+00:00

Its because A LOT of those 80-95% of men don't know where to go FOR help.

If you as a woman for advise, it usually skips the VERY first and most important part of a relationship: attraction.

The advise we men get from women IS what makes us believe it's bullshit, because women tell us to "be confident" and "be yourself". It is bullshit.

The men who are "naturals" at getting women don't give a rats as about the rest of us.

Men have studied attraction. We men want the success that OTHER MEN have. NOT what OTHER WOMEN have.

And THAT is valuable.

Kanenas_T_Potas · 2026-03-02T18:15:13+00:00

The premise of the Red pill is not "Take male advice". It is take our advice. Besides, the logic of the Red pill presupposes that most men are "plugged"(i.e. are "unaware" of how the world works) and that women are irrational creatures that naturally act egotistically in their best interest without even being fully aware of it. Bearing in mind these axioms the logic of the Red pill is:

Women are hypergamous and they will date the best possible man they can attract. If they feel that they can attract a better man, even if they are in a relationship, they will leave their current man for the new one.
From that, it follows that all women will try to date the top 20% (or 10% or 5%) of most attractive men. This also means they will do everything in their power to keep them including breaking their own rules, ignoring their values, having sex ASAP with these guys and being sexually available 24/7.
Some women will not be able to make a man who belongs to the top percentile commit to her, if that's the case, she will still try to have his child and then "settle" for a less attractive man who doesn't belong to the top percentile. Some don't even get an alpha child and end up "settling" anyways. ( Alpha fucks, beta bucks).
Now that we "know" how the world works and how women work, we are going to give men a set of very dogmatic and rigid advice they can follow to enter into the 20% club and enjoy the privileges reserved for the alpha males.

So... The Red pill doesn't say "value male advice", it says "value our advice", which is a set of very rigid and dogmatic principles through which "average" men can become part of the 20% and get a bunch of women to be attracted to them.

Women advice is dismissed as less valuable; but not in regards to male advice but rather Red Pill Advice. The assumption being that women rationalize their actual preferences and give misleading advice to most men and that most men are actually plugged in betas.

So for red pillers, the advice they actually listen to is the advice of other people who follow the same ideas as they do, and who claim to have had success with them.

Disclaimer: I am simply explaining the logic of the Red pill; I am not defending my personal beliefs in this post.

OffTheRedSand · 2026-03-02T16:40:07+00:00

hypergamy in today's dicourse has lost it's meaning.

we literally have men who think it's hypergamous women want a tall partner.

You could filter who you'll listen to by their success, but many of you actually don't.

most people who are successful are either red pill or blue pill.

red pillers are mostly grifters and put on a show, so them as an example get discarded.

blue pillers are way too normie with their advice that does work for them (go outside, be yourself) so them as an example also get discarded.

at some point in todays manoshphere most struggling males actually don't want to listen to any advice.

they'd rather spend all their time in an echo chamber that validate their views, and just yes man and circle jerk each other.

ImaginaryDimension74 · 2026-03-02T19:06:11+00:00

Asking a successful fisherman about how to catch fish analogy isn’t about believing men and not women, it’s about consulting someone with proven ability and knowledge. That person could be a woman or a man.

AwardLimp2736 · 2026-03-02T23:50:53+00:00

You can be in the unsuccessful percentile of men, and still know the truth. The very realization you're in that zone shows you understand what the zone is, and what you would need to get out of it, but may not be able /willing to do so.

Also RP isn't just about being successful with women. Some men just want to navigate women, but have nothing to do with them romantically. Some guys simply like the intellectual discussions.

You try to set all the logical fail safes, but the very nature of your question is illogical to begin with. You can absolutely know how to do something, without having the skills to do it. Is it ideal to learn from someone who both knows and does? Ofcourse, but it doesn't dismiss the knowledge of someone who can't or doesn't want to. That goes for everything in life.

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VibrantCanopy · 2026-03-02T20:32:49+00:00

Because the advice is given by the apex males. Men don’t sabotage other men the way women do to other women. “Cockblock” is a term for a reason.

Southern_Source_2580 · 2026-03-03T04:05:06+00:00

What is settling? What is simping? What is lying about hypergamous nature? What is dishonesty and hypergamous nature intertwined? Answer these and you know why you never ask a fish to get in your boat when you don't even have a boat. Patrice O'Neil (may he rest in peace) made a great joke about the asking the fisherman how to fish and how its the fish who are the problem.

https://youtu.be/6KzCfIYArmQ?si=UdrpPQcxVjx8-4nw

Shadowcat1606 · 2026-03-03T08:29:43+00:00

Simple: If i believe women don't give a fuck about me and barely even see me as human because i'm not a part of the top whatever percentage of men, why would i believe they care enough to give me helpful advice?

Melodic_Structure928 · 2026-03-03T11:51:51+00:00

I think what gets glossed over is that many women try to uphold the WoW effect over telling you what really works for men and gets them the progress they seek. That’s when you hear more blue pilled centric advice like treat her as a human and just be nice, to which many, many men try and still come out the other end as incels.

then they see men who don’t follow those rules and wonder wait whys he so successful while doing none of what I was told? That’s when they look for other sources.

the idea then is to find those who actually, have success and then would help you

OkShame3452 · 2026-03-02T19:12:30+00:00

Women are a great, great, source of knowledge. I don't think I ever learned from life that from an ex. But you have to be careful and put-on anti-bullshit glasses. In other words, pay attention to what they do not what they say. Why?

Because many, many, many women lie for no reason at all. They lie just to feel good with themselves, they lie to protect their little ego, they will lie just to not accept their past mistakes. For example,I've heard it first-hand just last week "He doesn't count! I didn't like how the sex was and it was only one time!"
They talk from empathy, from past personal experiences, from feelings, to give advice instead thinking rationally from the person's perspective. I.e. "Yeah I was lonely but I just went out and made friends! Do that!" Assuming making male friends is the same as making female friends. It is not. A man would tell you to first be respectable in some sort of way, be responsible, be courageous, be virtuous, be good at something, get some confidence, then to not give a fuck if people like you, and then you'll have male friends.

Whenever I would hear the hoe-stories from said ex I always took notes, whenever she spoke ill of men, it was sure she resented not having power over them, for example. And so on, and so on.

In conclusion, let me ask you this question. Would you accept the advice men had for women for the past centuries? Stay a virgin until you marry a good man? Man logically know that a good wife is rare and could easily be married to a millionaire today. (For example Lebanese women, they are beautiful, smart, and good wives).. But you probably won't like that advice because men and women go through life differently, we have different goals and values.

DietTyrone · 2026-03-02T16:36:39+00:00

The simple answer is because when men in the manosphere make claims they often used stats and studies to support their claims, and also tell men to pay attention to the types of men they see most women around them gravitate towards.

While women on the other hand give advice based on how they feel or what sounds good. The biggest problem with this is what sounds good on paper doesn't always correlate with the kind of men they choose irl. Many men notice these contradictions and learn to not listen to what women say as a result, instead focusing on what they see women do instead. It's not that they completely ignore women, but they take everything they say with an extreme grain of salt until they see a lot of real life examples to support the claims. The men who tend to lean into the manosphere are the men whose personal experiences align more with what the groups in the manosphere claim to be generally true.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2026-03-02T16:45:25+00:00

It’s because they are being sold what they want.

They are being told “it’s not your fault. Actually YOU are special. You are smart cause you found us, and I/we can help you with our products and answers and services! All you need to do is like and subscribe! Or go to our (banner ad) website. Or buy our book. Don’t worry, all you want: the money, the women, the other people looking at you with jealousy or admiration: we can tell you how. You’ll be one of the 10-20 percent at the top, just give us your attention. And now give us your money.”

And it works cause they are being sold a dream they already want.

PrecisionHat · 2026-03-02T16:39:47+00:00

You have to remember that "advice" doesn't necessarily mean dating advice. It can also mean just general insights about women's behaviour (how to recognize when they are trying to take advantage of you, why they wear revealing clothing). The fish/fisherman thing leans more into how to be successful in dating but I think watch what they do not what they say is make accurate and applies to everyone beyond women as well.

FireFoxG · 2026-03-02T18:50:09+00:00

Dont take advice from the people shooting the flak...

Take the the advice from the ones that barely or didn't survive the flak.

Men aren't even looking to get laid anymore... we are looking for how to not get destroyed.

nsfwthrowaway6996 · 2026-03-02T18:52:04+00:00

The “don’t listen to women, listen to men” advice isn’t meant to mean “listen to random unsuccessful guys.” The logic is “listen to people who get consistent results.” That can apply to men or women.

The reason men say not to rely solely on women’s advice is because women often describe what makes them stay or feel good in a relationship not necessarily what gets a man through the initial filter, physical attraction or looks, Those are different stages.

If hypergamy were strictly true in the extreme 80/20 sense, then yes only a small minority of men would have useful firsthand experience. But that doesn’t automatically make women’s advice more accurate either. Both genders describe their conscious preferences not always their unconscious filters.

The more coherent position isn’t “just listen to men.” It’s “filter advice by demonstrated outcomes.” If someone consistently attracts healthy relationships their perspective has value regardless of gender.

The inconsistency you’re pointing out only exists if the claim is “all men give better advice.”

theitchcockblock · 2026-03-02T19:04:38+00:00

Only few men are successful and give solid advice also there’s a phenomenon in the red pill circles called the gamma male , basically is the guy that studies and reads about women online but then on dates he describes to a woman what is game and gets completely sideline by women because they are just robots who can’t make a woman feel anything … they see women as passing exam , so this guy is in the middle of chad and the average blue pill man …

TraxUK1 · 2026-03-02T21:02:46+00:00

> why is male advice supposed to be so much more valuable than female advice?

Is it?

If I was struggling with dating I'd want advice from a woman. Very last thing I'd want is advice from a man who's going to say women are all hypergamey. Then we'd sit around crying into our beers bemoaning the fact we can't get dates. Then we go home satisfied but we're still sleeping alone.

If a man you were friends with asked you for dating advice would you tell him something sensible he could use? I bet you would.

RevolutionaryJob7908 · 2026-03-02T23:23:59+00:00

At first, you listed facts, then I stopped reading at this to no point basis: "and have little to no realistic understanding of how to fix it."

So to answer that specific question, men have little understanding of how to fix something they never get to experience.

It's that simple bro.

Particular_Trade6308 · 2026-03-03T03:21:46+00:00

Many men in the manosphere push two core ideas at the same time:

Never listen to women about dating/relationships: “Don’t ask the fish, ask the fisherman.” Only male advice counts. Women's advice is useless.

Women are hypergamous and overwhelmingly attracted to the top 5-20% of men (the exact percentage seems to fluctuate depending on the day). That leaves the vast majority of “average” guys (supposedly 80–95% of men) invisible, struggling, and mostly undatable.

You are conflating multiple manosphere views. Redpillers and alpha male types (Andrew Tate, etc) think that women's advice is useless and you should talk to guys because you need to develop frame and game.

Blackpillers/looksmaxxers think that physical attraction is all that matters and the bar is high, so only the top 20% of men can get women, and the behavior/personality of the man is largely secondary to his appearance. So it's actually not that helpful to get advice from a hot guy who gets laid a lot, because he might think it's due to his humor or frame or whatever, but actually it's because of his looks.

So there's no contradiction, because redpillers and blackpillers don't agree on much besides the idea that a minority of men are sexually successful. You see a contradiction because you have mashed both groups together out of ignorance or to make a gotcha post.

mikiencolor · 2026-03-03T03:41:05+00:00

I don't think it's useful and I don't listen to them. I'm also not interested in being "successful with women". I'm interested in finding a soulmate (woman or man). That would be falling in love with someone and being happy because I know I make them happy and they love me body and soul for who I truly am. Not the same thing as "successful with women". Not even in the same galaxy.

My impression of men giving advice for being "successful with women" is they are only intersted in fucking and don't seem to be too bothered about whether they're loved for who they are, or who these women they chase after are. They strategize about attracting and seducing the same women they criticize, which makes no sense to me. I'm not attracted to the women I criticize.

Even if they did give out useful advice, it's not useful to you unless you want the same things out of a relationship they do. They're talking about a transactional relationship where they trade material resources for sexual access that gives no emotional sustenance. I envy people who look for that... seems like it should be much easier to be happy if that's all you want.

jedi1josh · 2026-03-03T12:46:28+00:00

Here's why you don't ask women for dating advice. There's an old saying, "watch what people do, not what they say".

There was a study done (sorry I don't have a link) where participants were asked a series of questions, one of the questions was "what type of coffee do you most like" to which the most common answer given was "rich dark roast" . Those same participants were then offered coffee in a break room where various types of coffee was available, the least popular flavor was the rich dark roast. People think they know what they want, they even say they know what they want, but ultimately people don't know what they want. Hollywood has known this for years. The most common complaint Hollywood receives from fans is for them to quit making remakes and sequels. Guess which movies has the largest audiences every year, that's right! The remakes and sequels do. People have no clue what they actually want. So yeah we shouldn't ask what women want from other women, we should ask the guys who were successful.

Livid-Log7463 · 2026-03-03T17:53:27+00:00

This argument makes no logical sense, the ones who would be the most insightful would be the ones who had to overcome the exclusion not simply the ones enforcing it.

Dramatic_Gopher42069 · 2026-03-04T02:19:08+00:00

Of the 3 options: other men, women, yourself, it goes like this: - Other men could 'potentially' be in the top 80%, granting authority to any advice given - women are case by case basis and each one can think the other's thoughts are delulu...even when she's giving advice, it's not helpful because she can/will not consider you in the frame of mind that you want other women to in the moment - if you were good at knowing what to do you wouldn't be asking anyone for advice

Popeoath · 2026-03-04T08:40:22+00:00

If 80–99% of men are (by this logic) clueless and/or unsuccessful,
why is male advice supposed to be so much more valuable than female advice?

Because 100% of straight women are unsuccessful at pulling straight women.

1-20% > 0%

If women kept their personalities but were otherwise turned into their straight male equivalents, most of them would be stuck as incels.

Bi/lesbian advice is more credible, but with the asterisk that those women still benefit from multiple halo effects that you as a straight man probably lack (women have in-group bias, feel safer around other women, and rate other women's looks less harshly).

You could filter who you'll listen to by their success

Why? People succeed for a lot of reasons, many of which I probably can't replicate.

What you should filter for first is people similar to yourself. How Trump became a billionaire is irrelevant to me, I can't do any of that. How someone of working-class birth achieved financial stability is more relevant to me, even though their success is more modest.

And even experience with failure is more intellectually valuable than the experience of someone who was just handed success.

shadowrangerfs · 2026-03-04T09:07:41+00:00

It makes more sense to ask your own sex for dating advice than the opposite sex. This applies to both men and women. If a woman is looking for advice on how to attract men, it makes more sense for her to ask a woman for advice.

Here's why. If you're trying to be successful at something. It makes sense to look to people who have been successful for guidance and advice.

So in dating, if a woman wants advice on how to attract men. It makes more sense to ask women who are successful at attracting men. They have actually done the thing that she is trying to do. It makes less sense to ask a man because he has no experience attracting or dating men. You're asking him to teach you how to do something that he's never done himself.

You wouldn't ask someone who has never driven a car to teach you to drive. You wouldn't ask someone who has never played piano to teach you piano. You wouldn't ask someone who has never spoken Chinese to teach you Chinese.

So, it might not be the best idea to ask someone who has never attracted, dated, or been in a relationship with a man to teach you how to attract, date, or get relationships with a man.

That being said, I will acknowledge that you could ask individual men what they look for in a woman and see which answers you get the most often and try that.

joeyjusticeco · 2026-03-02T19:04:17+00:00

Any man who says “Don’t ask the fish, ask the fisherman.” is 99% likely to be a fisherman who cannot catch fish (and should stick to men)

Title	If hypergamy is real why do you think that listening to men is useful?
Author	Lemon_gecko
Upvotes	20
Comments	220
Date	March 2, 2026 4:25 PM UTC (5 months ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1rixefc/if_hypergamy_is_real_why_do_you_think_that/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/if-hypergamy-is-real-why-do-you-think-that.1574565 https://theredarchive.com/post/1574565

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