Men created the “high maintenance woman” they complain about

SeemedGood · 2026-03-14T23:45:53+00:00

True. We shouldn’t simp and we should flee from women who prostitute themselves for other utility.

But some dudes are just too thirsty because they have no other options.

captaindestucto · 2026-03-14T23:45:07+00:00

Screening is exactly what coffee dates are. Don't women also want to screen for basic compatibility first, without the awkwardness, expense, time and effort of dinner dates with men they feel no connection with? You want to talk about wasted time?

TheColdWoman · 2026-03-14T23:53:49+00:00

I understand your point, but I think it is unwise.

I personally always wanted a coffee date or drink in public relatively early. I wanted to feel we were on equal footing without a whiff of obligation toward one or another, just so we could suss each other out. If he was hideous or uninteresting, I wanted to have the option to walk without guilt. But I also didn't put myself out either. Low pressure, super easy, but don't be expecting hand holding or touching or anything else.

Ha, broke that with my now hub.

Throwawaypmme2 · 2026-03-15T00:00:43+00:00

No, its women's unrealistic expectations gassed up by everyone around them, both men and women. Stop blaming men for women having unrealistic expectations. When little timmy gets straight F's in school, does the principal say to him that he'll be a doctor? Or does he say shape up. The same goes for dating. Women wont accept the coffee dates, then they wont get the date. Its that simple

NoBlacksmith8137 · 2026-03-14T22:44:53+00:00

men who say they want a relationship but disappear the second things get serious, or were never looking for one to begin with

So now men are frustrated that women won’t meet them for a $5 coffee date

These are not the same men. The men who pump and dump are not the same men who are complaining about loneliness. It’s not the fault of the latter that the former does what they do, is it?

And to top it all off, the man offering a coffee is already sending the signal (purposeful or not) that he isn’t looking to impress her.

A date is to get to know one another and talk. You can even walk in the park and spend no money at all. How do you get to know each other better when the meal has cost a lot of money? What does that mean, besides that it’s more performative and less about genuine connection? This mindset sounds like a terrible mindset for women who genuinely want to have a fulfilling relationship.

grillopie · 2026-03-15T01:16:56+00:00

a coffee date is most definitely a screening. i dont get why some women would rather skip the screening. this is the best way to not waste time. its literally less time than a meal.

DietTyrone · 2026-03-14T22:24:53+00:00

Women refusing cheap first dates and demanding more effort upfront isn’t entitlement

If these women in question aren't putting in equal effort or investment, then it is in fact entitlement.

Dating apps are flooded with men who say they want a relationship but disappear the second things get serious, or were never looking for one to begin with.

It's also flooded with women who expect men to lead the entire conversation, plan the date, pay for the full date, and then ghost these men afterwards. So the risk can go both ways.

So now men are frustrated that women won’t meet them for a $5 coffee date — but who created that environment?

Some guys, but sounds like you expect every guy to pay for how some guys treated you it sounds like.

The “entitled woman” is just a woman who stopped giving the benefit of the doubt.

Should men give you the benefit of the doubt? Why?

rejected-again · 2026-03-15T00:57:44+00:00

Men did not create the environment of women using them for a free meal. The $5 coffee date is in response to these exploitative women.

Mud_Blossom · 2026-03-14T22:52:11+00:00

Look at the dating subs here (especially the age-specific ones) or TikTok. Many women are definitely desperate for a relationship.

Pew noted in 2023 that the number of single men looking for a relationship dropped at a higher rate than for women. Men seem to be adjusting to the lack of dateable women just fine and will probably continue to do so by finding other things to do. We're in the second half of the shift toward intentional singleness that women began, and men are finally catching up.

2026-03-14T23:23:11+00:00

Your right, it is a screening to judge if shes worth investing time, energy and money into and not a waste of time and further investments.

The good percentage of men on those apps, they have no real interest in a relationship, just quick hookups.

I meet my dates out and about, not on apps because I want to know if shes worth my time. Apps tell me nothing and I suggest men avoid them like the plague they have devolved into.

Entitled is just another word for being difficult and someone that should be avoided at all costs.

xclaner · 2026-03-15T22:08:58+00:00

The entitled woman is just someone asking for more than we think they deserve.

Don't try to justify it by blaming men.

If you're upset that a stranger doesn't want to spend more money to meet you for the first time, that's entitled.

We can make a similar argument that women created low effort men. That after years of paying for dinner dates and getting nothing at the end, men realize that more expensive dates does not equal better outcomes. That a high-interest woman doesn't need an expensive date and will accept a coffee date.

The "low effort" man is just a man who stopped giving the benefit of the doubt.

And the ironic part? You can call the women entitled but can't call the men entitled, because they're the ones paying (giving). Entitlement can only be ascribed to those that are receiving but are still ungrateful.

SivalV · 2026-03-14T23:25:57+00:00

Honestly I agree about the part that men created it, by trying to prove themselves to entitled women who weren't even attracted to them in the first place. When dating in same city and socioeconomic group it's gotta be 50/50.

Anytime I told a woman I wanted something serious I ended up ghosted or done real dirty (yeah...I used to be a romantic). On the other hand when I told them I wasn't looking for any kind of commitment, they would...ehhmm...swallow their pride (and more) and do whatever they thought would change my mind on it about them...As in driving 60km each way to my place every week for a couple of months and me never paying anything, but the moment a man gives his commitment in a situation like that he's gonna get played cause the challenge she was craving is gone, so the issue is not men disappearing when things get serious. It's that women are not really attracted to commitments either.

Most men would love to have a stable loving relationship where there is mutual attraction and respect. But it usually ends up being them having developped deep feelings for someone who started treating them like peasants.

Anyways...I'm planning my marriage with my passport girlfriend, who just really appreciated me going to see her. "Filtering out" coffee dates is a choice, and so is getting a few cats in your 40s

seadraugr · 2026-03-14T23:28:20+00:00

I disagree, only because if you are interested in someone and are going on a first date, neither of them owes anything to the other, and it's a good place in public to talk and get to know each other. More casual.

DriverInitial8305 · 2026-03-14T22:38:00+00:00

That’s a lie. Women adapted to the new environment way faster than men did. When dating apps had more balanced ratios things were more normal but women are the ones who started chasing the more high value guys and downplaying men on their level. Part of this was guys fault but it also was women’s fault. That created a hierarchy where the top 20% of guys sit on the thrown, the bulk of women sit on the next tier pining for that top 20% and then the rest of the women bounce around with the bottom 80%. Bc of this top 20% guys no longer have to try. Not to brag about myself but I’m a successful guy who’s maintained a lean physique for 5 yrs now. I can get on hinge tomorrow go down the list and get some woman to come to my apartment by next week. I’m 31. At 26 when I was broke, 25% body fat and not really doing well I had to put in way more effort. What’s happening now is the guys at the top aren’t trying bc they don’t have to and the guys at the bottom aren’t trying anymore or they’re working on themselves trying to get to the top. So the nice guys, flower date and chocolate guy, wait 90 days guys are an endangered species. Just is what it is. But very few men are actually dealing with high maintenance women. They’re either not approaching bc they feel as if she’ll reject them anyway or they’re ignoring you bc why put up with you when 10 other girls will rub my feet and do tricks for me. Women chasing the highest level guy created this environment. I personally don’t have an issue with it bc I’ve done the work but anyone hoping for things to go back to what they were is delusional

Independent-Mail-227 · 2026-03-14T22:38:34+00:00

Dating apps are flooded with men who say they want a relationship but disappear the second things get serious

How do you know this?

Shadowcat1606 · 2026-03-15T19:22:22+00:00

Or maybe the push for 5$-coffee dates is a response to high maintenance women?

If a man won’t put in basic effort early on, that’s usually a preview of what’s coming.

And who decided what "basic effort" is?

Complete-Record5167 · 2026-03-15T23:26:00+00:00

If a woman doesn’t want to show up so be it. Plenty of other women out there.

WhiteLotusGauntlet · 2026-03-15T02:13:55+00:00

If you want a man looking for a partner, act like a partner.

If you want a man looking for a prostitute, act like a prostitute.

I don't understand why women think having the demands of a prostitute will select for men looking for a partner. I refuse to believe women in general are this stupid.

PrecisionHat · 2026-03-14T23:31:39+00:00

Effort has to mean money, though? That's a spoiled brat talking.

Alarming-Pressure-48 · 2026-03-14T22:20:35+00:00

Dating apps are flooded with men who say they want a relationship but disappear the second things get serious

The majority of those men are just saying that to get into women's pants though.

Destinyciello · 2026-03-14T22:23:29+00:00

It's just human nature.

Males: Select females primarily on physical appearance.

Females: Select males on a combination of looks, money and status.

The difference stems from the fact that females get pregnant and get stuck with the baby no matter.what.

So a woman testing to see if your broke ass can afford a $5 date is just a very simple filtration method. If you can't even do that. You are probably worthless. Unless you're very good looking and then they won't even bother with that test lol.

This is important for guys. You want to put your best foot forward so to speak. You want to make a good first impression. PAY FOR THE FIRST DATE. Don't be a fucking idiot. It would be akin to the woman showing up in dirty clothes and without having brushed her teeth to the first date if you force the woman to go 50/50. You're just shooting yourself in the foot.

These are innate instincts. They are not learned. No matter what the environment is like human males and females tend to default to these behaviors.

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Open-Quail-2573 · 2026-03-14T22:51:10+00:00

Silly game. I refuse to play.

TheRedPillRipper · 2026-03-14T23:09:47+00:00

it’s a direct response

Objectively one individual is not responsible for the response of another. At least initially too the more attractive an individual is, the less their financial situation is factor. For either gender.

It is that simple.

RevolutionaryJob7908 · 2026-03-14T23:34:12+00:00

I was there before the dating apps got bad. I watched them morph and evolve over time. I don't mind sharing that when women slowly stopped replying before swiping existed, (they used to reply, and direct messaging, everything, veiws etc, were all FREE) when they stopped replying.. and all that time I spent reading one profile after another after another... and custom building the message, and my profile was ranked a 8.3 of 10, no jokes ! And no reply...

I started to say 'That's why the men just enmass messages.' I held on for some time, trying to put in personal effort, and actually, I did to the end of days while I was on them. I would limit how many likes I sent to 10 a day, eventually to 10 a week. I knew it wasn't going to work. 0 replies. I remembered thinking 'What happened to all the search functions so I could search for exactly the perfect woman, aswell? Perfect didn't mean barbie doll, it just meant hobbies and things, and yes be slim. Profiles were by the end, and during swipes, a couple sentences.

I couldn't beleive that every app was now the 'same', and the app doesn't even want me to get to know her? It's very obvious, you get 2-3 sentences to talk about yourself.

I don't know what apps are for anyway now. They aren't designed to meet someone else. They used to be.

2026-03-15T00:49:14+00:00

1% of men did that not 99% like you claimed

Mission-Pie-7192 · 2026-03-15T01:06:38+00:00

If someone has opinions about a high maintenance person, I can't think of any better way to approach the situation than both people being direct about it from the beginning.

wtknight · 2026-03-15T04:20:21+00:00

Many women are not desperate for a relationship

This is the problem. You identify it right in your post. And men did not create this. Feminism, better educational opportunities, higher salaries and the ability for women to live independently did. I'm not saying that any of these things are bad, but they do make women want relationships less and then demand more from men as a result, often acting "entitled" while they do so.

statsfodder · 2026-03-15T05:21:24+00:00

How about society, feminists and weak men told women they are entitled to more and any man who disagrees is a misogynist??

Unfortunately it doesn't do what you want, which is to blame all men and remove accountability and agency from women for women's selfish, poor behaviour and undeserved entitled attitudes.

Substantial-Fly4895 · 2026-03-15T05:45:03+00:00

Yes, and the male response was just a counter to women wanting a relationship but then treating you abominably when in the relationship, ie, reducing sex, trying to manipulate you, being overly entitled with their demands etc. And that behavior from women was a counter to male laziness and over-optimization of life leading to slightly suboptimal outcomes for her and her progeny... and THAT was a counter to excess caloric expenditure or unnecessary physical risk which led to the deaths of many a hominid male when resources were much more scarce during our evolutionary history, etc...

It's all just a continual arms race between the genders, an evolving meta of play and counter-play. Where differences in goals exist there cannot be peace. Where peace is impossible continual conflict and adaptation is the norm.

The only way out is to voluntarily disarm somewhat and hope the other player reciprocates by also cooperating. But trying to blame one side for any of this seems tribalistic and facile to me. Blame evolution instead for created sexed organisms with conflicting incentives leading to divergent goals leading to endemic internecine conflict ... why did multi cellular life have to become dominant? Perhaps just an endless circlejerk of mitosis would have sufficed and made life much more pleasant (if bland) by comparison.

Southern_Source_2580 · 2026-03-15T09:59:44+00:00

What you fail to realize is that men are perfectly willing to do all that if they want to but it's just the sheer amount of entitled two faced behavior often from women. Who did all that relationship easiness for some guy who did give them a thrive thru date and then smashed for less because she was sexually attracted to him. THEN starts this standards BS after they get dumped by the dark triad man like that was going to work out at all long term. Men who are simping fools that don't want to be alone will adhere to your standards which in a non accountable mentality women like you somehow blame this guy and guys who are willing do all that but aren't the foolish simps who knows better than to get with a reformed 304, and not the player dark triad man in the first place.

Axis_Control · 2026-03-15T12:06:42+00:00

Men have caught on that they need to pay for dinner and will try to trick women into having sex after having dates with them where they pay for the food.

going__nowhere · 2026-03-15T12:55:06+00:00

As a woman I'm going to go against this idea. At least around Europe, a coffe date is a normal first date. And we might/might not expect the guy to pay, cause... we don't know each other so nobody owes anything to the other person.

In this first date we are both screening each other to see if the photos were real or not, if is there a vibe, a something that tells us this can work out for a 2nd date. I personally wouldn't like to get stuck on a date to a guy that doesnt talk, or just throws a monologue about himself while trying to enjoy my food. It feels too serious too soon. I made that mistake once and regret it. It was a very uncomfortable date. The photos weren't acurate, and I realised I have missed some red flags.. paid my part, goodbye and left. And told myself to never break that rule again lol

If you want to see if a man is reliable, I just date him again, see if he plans something, if he shows interest, dont have sex with him straight away.. time tells you what type of man he is.

badgersonice · 2026-03-15T17:17:29+00:00

Men might have encouraged it …. But so have women.

And likewise, making a dude pay a bunch of money on a first date is not the only way (or the best way) to evaluate whether a guy is just a fuckboy or interested in a real relationship.

There’s plenty of deceptive men who will be willing to just shell out some cash like you’re hooker so he can get quick sex. Him spending money is sometimes possibly a signal he’s interested, but it’s no guarantee, and it also means he might view you as high maintenance and unworthy.

Lots of very good men don’t want to play these tricky games in dating, either; they want to avoid someone with a gold-digging “what can he do for me”, “he needs to impress me”, “I am the table” entitled princess attitude in favor of someone with actual mutual interest. And that is perfectly reasonable of them to want that.

The best signal from him is his time and real genuine connection. If he’s patient and interested in you beyond just pumping and dumping, and actualy shows real eagerness to be around you beyond just the physical, then you don’t have to play silly $$$ games.

Going into dating with a cynical “i gotta test them because most men/women are gonna take advantage of me” attitude is poison, regardless of whether it comes from the man or the woman.

Livid-Log7463 · 2026-03-15T18:57:56+00:00

To a certain degree this is true but if all men stopped it would simply result in far fewer men ever dating, most women don’t have the capacity to see herself as anything but a prize to be won over including women who are less desirable.

SelectAd1485 · 2026-03-16T00:36:20+00:00

My man isn't well off. He spent time in prison and has a rough past and so do I but I was in my ex partners prison. I've never cared about how much he has or does or who he is just as long as he works and he does his whole life which is before prison and after and while he was in prison. I don't judge him as he is a good partner even though we don't live together. He is always their when I need him and we go half and half when on dates and out and is always fair. I found him on Tinder 2 yrs ago and was lucky as he had just joined for me to long on their and met to many idiots before him . Dating apps are only for woman and men who are tough and alot of woman aren't. They go onto them dreaming to much and many men just want hookups and ive had many since leaving ex husband in 2016. Also lived with a few young twits who never had a job or kept changing jobs and cheated on me. I've known to many losers before I met this man who is just like me and we even think the same. He is basically the male rough version of me as my oldest daughter told me this. Is life changing when this finally happens to you . I'm 57 and he is 48. Alot of you who go onto dating apps will never meet the one.

Low_Rich_5436 · 2026-03-16T11:09:29+00:00

Men (or women) are not a unified force. Any sentence starring with "men (or women) did xxxx" is by essence false.

Puzzleheaded_Card_71 · 2026-03-17T15:16:17+00:00

Yup. Men simping is what makes women entitled. It’s our damn fault and it frustrates me to no end, and that’s why all men need to learn about the red pill and understand its basic tenants because so many of them think it’s the right thing to do.

Theawkwardmochi · 2026-03-18T08:49:42+00:00

Non-binary Merlin's green-dyed beard and the holy Septum, what kind of misogynistic trollwhackery is this?

Women are adult humans capable of making their own decisions. We have awesome stuff like free will, critical thinking, and agency to conduct ourselves however the 🦆 we please. We don't need men to guide us into behaviors, worldviews and choices. In fact (shocking I know) how we live our lives is not a reaction to how men live theirs. We are free to choose whatever we want and accountable for whatever choices we've made - and should the choice be to become an absolute unit of an entitled ass, there's a very good chance someone will criticize it.

We're humans not peacocks, the male doesn't have to fold out a big fabulous tail and do a little dance, shaking it to impress the female. I don't wanna yuck your yum though, if that's what y'all are into, knock yourself out. It's beyond my limited intellectual capacity to understand why there are women who'd rather have the man bend over backwards to impress and entertain them than get to know the actual person and decide whether or not they like what they see. But I don't need to understand everything.

One thing I agree with is that the kind of gentlemen who spend their days complaining about ladies who expect to be fed caviar, showered in roses and served champagne on the first date, really should shut up and do something more productive and beneficial for their well-being, like read a book, hit the gym, play a game or take a nap. These women are clearly not for you, just like you are not for them. Which is fine, not everyone is for everyone.

VenusNoire_ · 2026-03-14T22:32:13+00:00

They care about convenience and optimization. I don’t think they’re going to be convinced to do anything else other than the minimum they can get away with. Just filter them out through your profile, if you must stay on online platforms. I don’t find it appealing either, personally, but that’s largely because my personality and way of relating to people is incompatible with their dating style. They can be ignored.

mobjack · 2026-03-14T23:00:35+00:00

It's not about the money. Coffee dates are boring.

Invite the woman for drinks instead. It is not that much more expensive and women think it is a proper date.

Present-Afternoon-70 · 2026-03-14T22:15:26+00:00

No men and women both think money equals love

wtknight · 2026-03-15T02:24:19+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	Men created the “high maintenance woman” they complain about
Author	luckycharmxx
Upvotes	20
Comments	225
Date	March 14, 2026 10:12 PM UTC (4 months ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1rtwkiz/men_created_the_high_maintenance_woman_they/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/men-created-the-high-maintenance-woman-they.1575519 https://theredarchive.com/post/1575519

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