Why do progressives/feminists rarely object to grooming standards for men?

MidoriEgg · 2024-04-01T09:54:13+00:00

Something something they’re hypocrites, but one point I disagree on is;

‘ not as acceptable to subject women to social/professional consequences for not grooming their visible body hair(especially armpit hair)?’

I’ve never worked anywhere where I don’t wear sleeves so I can’t speak to professional consequences, but damn are there social consequences if a woman doesn’t shave her arm-pits. If a man doesn’t shave his stubble maybe people will think he’s having a lazy day. If you go out with unshaven armpits it’s a political statement. I would literally never go out with a tank top unshaven armpits because every girl I know of who’s done it gets so many whispers labelled either as dirty and disgusting or a crazy femenist. I’ve been guilty of thinking the same things. I had an aquintence who didn’t shave who I went on a night out with and soo many men (and one woman) where approaching her to debate her/argue with her about it, one man was really aggressive about it (something like ‘if you want to look like a man can I hit you like you’re a man). It’s fine if someone doesn’t like hairy armpits on women, on an aesthetic level I don either, but it’s a bit tiring that if your razor breaks you have to wear sleeves or the whole world gets so mad at you.

gourd_gutz · 2024-04-01T12:20:02+00:00

To make my own stance clear before I say anything: do whatever you want with your body hair, no matter your gender, but don’t expect everyone to like it… no matter your gender. Also yes I shave I am not a spooky hairy radical feminist

So, first of all, shaving your pits, your whole legs, bikini line (if you guys even know what that is), AND potentially your… kitty, is a lot more effort than just shaving your face. And a lot of men ONLY shave their face, whereas the baseline expectation for women is that they shave all or at least most of the areas I mentioned. No easy task either speaking as someone with super sensitive skin. That’s one thing that makes it a bit unbalanced and what has many women frustrated. So, I guess the logic follows that if men can call hairy women “gross” and “unhygienic”, they can make fun of men’s facial hair choices back. There is also the whole pedo argument, because within feminist circles there is a comparison drawn being shaving down there and the way children are naturally hairless before puberty. After all, youth is attractive, and if a man is a little too concerned with girls needing to be COMPLETELY bald below the neck before he can be attracted to him, a lot of feminist minded women find it super creepy. Body hair is a natural part of puberty, it’s a distinctive trait of adult bodies. Granted, I still think it’s a flawed argument and I certainly wouldn’t call a guy a pedo for watching porn with actresses who shave it all off, but this is the perspective of some of the people guilty of slinging around words like neckbeard.

Oh yeah and quick nitpick, pedostaches and neckbeards are not commonly natural because as far as I’m aware it still requires the man to go out if his way to shave some of or most of his face to achieve that look. They are style choices.

Termusnator · 2024-04-01T13:33:03+00:00

Addressing your last point, I think you'll find that typically professional and social consequences apply to both genders where poor grooming is involved, if this has not been your experience OP I would be interested to know how you've formed this opinion, what industry you're in etc.

Coming back to the feminist point, feminine grooming standards are overwhelmingly more developed and oppressive than men's grooming standards, others have pointed out that men are simply expected to get a haircut a few times a year, wear clean clothes with no holes in them and wear facial hair that looks tidy or remove it. When you compare that with women who typically in professional spaces spend a significant portion of their income on beauty appointments monthly, shave most of their body at least weekly, and need to actually style themselves instead of chucking on something that meets dress code; the idea of a man being upset because someone made fun of their neckbeard sounds pretty absurd doesn't it?

Green-Quantity1032 · 2024-04-01T10:54:17+00:00

Who cares what they are "for"?

Women know that being prettier is more attractive to partners, and most feel better when they look better.

There are whole subs devoted to general and specific grooming and plastic surgery treatment for women-only.

No one seriously takes the "objecting" to grooming standards seriously.

You wanna object to men's beauty standards? go ahead and be ugly and fat, no one cares.

Wanna be attractive? go to the fucking gym and take care of your hair and cloth.

Too many people are considering the opinions of fringe movements instead of their own lives

DisenchatedRealist · 2024-04-01T15:38:42+00:00

Progressives and feminists will go to meeting and complain about no "Toe Cleavage" being a restriction of their rights... Men will ask WTF they are talking about, and when they explain that its their open toes shoes show "pressed" together toes being disallowed, and something something sexism...

Men, of course, don't get to wear these types of shoes (aka sandals), and are required to suppress our eye rolling and bafflement least we micro aggress...

(I was a part of a meeting where this happened)

DXBrigade · 2024-04-01T16:45:37+00:00

Because grooming standards are much higher for women than for men and feminists love to reverse the statu quo.

Just like feminists will praise stay at home husbands while discouraging women to be sahm.

his_purple_majesty · 2024-04-01T18:05:34+00:00

because feminism portrays itself as some sort of revolutionary ideology, when in actuality it is just business as usual

NoDanaOnlyZuuI · 2024-04-01T13:23:04+00:00

Women absolutely deal with social/professional consequences for not grooming visible body hair.

WilliamWyattD · 2024-04-01T09:53:05+00:00

I guess the counter argument would be that women are way, way ahead of men when it comes to grooming. The argument against male grooming standards for women isn't necessarily that there be NONE; it is more about what they are and how comprehensive and troublesome they are. So I guess the the overall counter to what the OP is saying is that women just want men to start doing the basics, whereas women are way beyond that and could dial some of it back and we'd still not have gender equality here.

freeze_alm · 2024-04-01T15:30:20+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Solondthewookiee · 2024-04-01T12:26:54+00:00

You're confusing "this is the personal standard I have for people I want to date" with "I believe all people should adhere to this standard whether I'm dating them or not." Feminists are opposed to the latter.

Defundisraelnow · 2024-04-01T13:40:13+00:00

Men's issues are not part of the feminist agenda. They are neutral to that. Why don't you ask men's rights activists this question instead?

reddit_is_geh · 2024-04-01T12:04:44+00:00

SJWs are just insufferable dude... Who fucking cares? They are miserable and lame. Nothing makes sense, as it's all just an outlet to be angry

-Shes-A-Carnival · 2024-04-01T12:25:33+00:00

feminism isn't about mens issues. why would anyone think it was feminists job to care about mens issues with beauty standards?

fem- means women.

throughcracker · 2024-04-01T10:37:30+00:00

I'm against grooming standards for anyone. People should dress and act as they wish to dress and act - then they'll find out if it's actually attractive or not, rather than trying to meet an ill-defined standard. If we acted more authentically, we'd have more authentic relationships.

yaboytim · 2024-04-01T12:43:57+00:00

I don't think that's quite the equivalent. Your example is men shaming women for having any body hair vs women shaming men for having a certain TYPE of body hair. If it was women shaming men for not shaving at all; then I'd see your point more

MistyMaisel · 2024-04-01T16:31:25+00:00

I mean if you want the generic answer:

The standards are much lower so men not meeting them is way more of a slap in the face than a woman not doing her legs or armpits or snatch all the time.
Neckbeard is more about the associated lifestyle than the actual beard on the neck.
Beards are more of a concern by capitalism a lot of the time. It's often a professionalism thing where as a lot of lady stuff which gets enforced isn't unless you're a stripper. Most of this stuff just isn't visible in typical workplace attire.

That's about the long and short of it. Personally, I'm not a feminist. If a man isn't kept the way I like, I won't date him. If I'm running a business and feel his appearance is not professional, I'll give him the chance to change, same with women. In my experience, women are more likely to trip the alarm by dressing too sexy or skimpy, and men are more likely to trip it by being slovenly. Make of that what you will.

Gilaridon · 2024-04-01T22:16:46+00:00

People who do that don't want equality they want revenge. Plain and simple.

TheDerInDisorder · 2024-04-01T14:01:39+00:00

Are you asking why people use insults? To cause their target pain of course. Once it comes down to fightin' words there's no point in holding back. You can be as body positive as you want until a fat person cuts you off in traffic. My opinion is you don't lose woke points for calling them a dumb tub of diabetic shit.

Love-Is-Selfish · 2024-04-01T10:02:01+00:00

I’m for women shaving their body hair (pits and legs) as being feminine and objectively beautiful, though permanently removing it would be more practical, but it’s not the same thing at all as grooming the hear on your head including facial hair. Armpit hair isn’t visible in professional contexts for the vast majority of the time for good reason.

Gravel_Roads · 2024-04-01T10:20:25+00:00

Feminists didn't invent the term "neckbeard" or "pedostache", dude, kids were using those insults for their teachers since I was in like 5th grade.

why is it acceptable to subject men to social/professional consequences for not grooming their visible facial hair but not as acceptable to subject women to social/professional consequences for not grooming their visible body hair(especially armpit hair)?

People who don't groom are gross. They smell and they look unkempt. It's not "feminists", it's just... humans in general who react badly to seeing an dirty, messy person.

HOWEVER, women absolutely DO get shit if they don't groom their underarm hair. You know why? Because armpits SMELL bad. I don't see a large number of women going around with smelly, stinky armpits, and if I did, you better believe I am gonna give them a hard time about it.

If you just mean "women are allowed to grow underarm hair" well I mean... yes. So are MEN! Hell, men are ALSO allowed to grow BEARD hair. It just also can't be wild or dirty, because that smells and looks bad.

Is your complaint really "women should shave their ENTIRE bodies or else I shouldn't have to trim my beard" or is it just that you don't like people making fun of your neckbeard and you want to blame Progressives?

MongoBobalossus · 2024-04-01T09:45:35+00:00

“Neckbeard” is more an attitude/lifestyle than it is about facial hair at this point.

januaryphilosopher · 2024-04-01T14:37:38+00:00

They often do, especially in relation to men who are disabled or not white. However, grooming standards for men in general are so casual compared to those for women that they unsurprisingly aren't the focus. It's generally seen as fine for men to shave their face ir not and it isn't quite the same as their entire body plus a million other restrictions. I have never heard a woman use the word "neckbeard" or "paedostache", those are words that male non-feminists use. (And from what I understand that kind of moustache is groomed, not natural.) The only profession that says anything about facial hair is the army I believe, although there are religious exceptions. Some others might require you to wear a beard/moustache net for health and safety reasons. I don't believe many people are falling out with friends or anything over having a beard.

ta06012022 · 2024-04-01T11:31:14+00:00

Can you point to an example of someone saying that it’s fine for men to be held to grooming standards, but not women?

To answer your question, it’s likely because it’s not the SAME people saying those two things. It’s different people that you lump together into one group of “progressives/feminists”. Within that group you have many opinions. I’ve been with plenty of well groomed sorority girls who expect a well groomed guy, but are still liberal and feminist. On the other extreme, you have hippie feminists who don’t shave their armpits, but they’re unlikely to expect high grooming standards in men.

People have different opinions. It’s only hypocritical if the same person think men should be held to the standard, but not women.

Bouldershoulders12 · 2024-04-01T13:49:29+00:00

Don’t listen to what they say watch who they fuck

Feminism doesn’t change their biology

Azihayya · 2024-04-01T11:06:46+00:00

For once, I feel like someone in the RP/MRA manosphere has raised a decent question. Cool question, bro.

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GoodCauliflower4569 · 2024-04-01T15:17:00+00:00

I do look like i drive a candy van when i have a mustache though and i look 15 years younger without facial hair.

AnnoKano · 2024-04-01T18:05:24+00:00

Why are we even entertaining a question with the premise that women aren't judged for their appearance?

Balochim · 2024-04-01T23:27:36+00:00

Very interesting point, I’ve never considered that double standard before. Of course men and women look better well groomed and that’s been the status quo for thousands of years at this point.

But it actually is quite funny that women who celebrate not shaving also specifically mock men for not shaving 🤔

Gold_Supermarket1956 · 2024-04-02T04:18:25+00:00

Hell men get shit for not shaving their chest backs and arms....

apresonly · 2024-04-02T22:28:35+00:00

facial hair is a mystery to me

not going to debate about something i dont understand

Critical_Corner_1859 · 2024-04-01T11:10:15+00:00

What really irks me is pit hair. It looks and smells monstrous on both sexes, but on men it's much, much worse. Men naturally kinda smell worse and sweat more due to testosterone. Also lower grooming standards. Please, shave the pit hair. Everyone. Trim it at least.

Legitimate_Type_1324 · 2024-04-01T09:47:54+00:00

🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

I haven't really thought about that one. But now that you mention it.

Progressives are just about questioning the establishment.

If the establishment was about shaved bodies in women and moustaches in men, whelp, there you have it.

Where many progressives miss the mark is on personal freedom. In their righteousness, they start gatekeeping their views. For example, feminists as a group can't decide if a woman wanting to stay at home mom is the result of the patriarchy influencing women or the results of a woman with agency making her own decision.

They can't stand people using their free will to do things they don't agree with.

interesting-mug · 2024-04-01T13:05:25+00:00

Facial hair is immediately visible and hard to look past if you’re not pulling off the look well. Normally, especially in professional settings, you’re not seeing a woman’s body hair. The big difference is the hair is on your face so it’s unavoidable. If a woman has horrid-looking painted-on eyebrows, people are going to notice and talk and treat her differently. And conversely, if a guy has stubble or a beard and it looks good/intentional, no one is going to care.

RAZBUNARE761 · 2024-04-01T09:45:25+00:00

Cause nobody considers nen victimized. Its acceptable for people to attack those. Just look how fat men are threated compared to fat women.

SpitFireSpear · 2024-04-01T10:36:15+00:00

Progressive = against the establishment. Establishments = grooming for women, less for men

Satan_and_Communism · 2024-04-01T13:54:40+00:00

Feminists are mostly busy fighting for women’s rights where they believe there’s real concerns.

I honestly don’t think most progressive/feminists say you have to like women’s armpit hair. But men leave their armpit hair so women should societally be allowed to as well, because, equality.

Electric_Death_1349 · 2024-04-01T09:52:59+00:00

It’s simple - “progressives/feminists” despise men; they don’t see us as truly human, but as glorified animals that they seek to control through shame and social coercion.

neomancr · 2024-04-01T11:48:07+00:00

Having a neck beard and a pedo stach like a Hitler stach is 100 percent a choice.

wolfloveyes · 2024-04-01T10:02:56+00:00

Women in general don't care about men.

And feminist are least likely to care about men.

Whenever I make a post here, I receive "suicide guidance" by triggered women.

What they do it because they want you to die and take hint, think of sucide etc.....

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TRTGymBro · 2024-04-01T10:43:08+00:00

Why do Nazis hate blacks? Why does Hamas want to kill Jews? Why is the Earth not flat?

CraftyCooler · 2024-04-01T10:17:25+00:00

I think that only woke left feminist are discussing such things, it is pretty much in line with woke left agenda that effort and lack of effort should be rewarded equally.
Woke left is 2018 thing, it's outdated and no one is taking it seriously.

Relative_Bee8356 · 2024-04-01T20:13:20+00:00

Neckbeards and pedo staches are style choices that many people dislike. They make fun of TERF bangs and bad highlights on women, too. You don't really face major social/professional consequences for any of the above, except that maybe people find you unattractive.

Salt_Mathematician24 · 2024-04-01T21:40:56+00:00

Women have been beaten over the head with this too much. Men, not enough. /thread.

Title	Why do progressives/feminists rarely object to grooming standards for men?
Author	Total_Yankee_Death
Upvotes	51
Comments	200
Date	April 1, 2024 9:38 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1bszap2/why_do_progressivesfeminists_rarely_object_to/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-do-progressivesfeminists-rarely-object-to.1513690 https://theredarchive.com/post/1513690

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