When a person claim "Personality doesn't affect attraction", it's projection. That person doesn't value people's individual personalities.

_lemazaki · 2021-04-22T14:48:18+00:00

Wouldn't "looks" a first filter and "personality" a second filter?

SeaLevelIQ · 2021-04-22T16:55:47+00:00

Idk. Most couples I know have insanely different personalities with very few exceptions. Not everything is a fucking projection. Sometimes people observe the world around them, collect data and make conclusions based on that. And guess what data says: looks are the most accurate predictor of initial romantic interest. Personality played no part.

Now of course, that doesn't disprove your claim that personality matters in attraction, but there's simply no evidence for it. And it's not like no one tried looking for it either. They did, they just couldn't find any. Sorry. :(

WeAreTheAggies · 2021-04-22T14:52:27+00:00

This statement needs the qualifier "over time." I may be able to take some contextual clues about a woman's personality, but attraction starts off 99.9% physical, and then gives way to a more even split over time as you learn more about her.

Ben Shapiro makes a similar point on occasion. He talks about two different types of love in a relationship: passionate love and companionate love. The former is driven by lust and looks, but our brains aren't wired to maintain that for long. As passionate love dies down, successful relationships are taken over by companionate love which grows over time. If there's no compatability though, companionate love doesn't grow, and the spark will die out.

michael1962-01 · 2021-04-22T17:42:33+00:00

Personality matters - later down the road.

Leadership, Integrity, Boldness and confidemce matter.

But

Your tall masculin big muscular frame and the big wallet matter more as.long as you can formulate a finished sentence.

wtknight · 2021-04-22T15:56:44+00:00

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trail22 · 2021-04-22T16:21:36+00:00

Your personality only comes into considerstion if meet basic attractiveness levels.

Does personality matter, not if they don’t find you attractive.

John_Oakman · 2021-04-22T14:12:10+00:00

Personality might not significantly affect attraction simply because most people in general have normal (non-extraordinary, generic) personality. Normal/generic people are that: normal/generic, hence that feature not really noticeable in the grand scheme of things.

Every individual might still be unique, but that uniqueness isn't significant enough to be a major factor one way or the other. In the modern society where people are expected to handle large numbers of all sorts in their daily lives everything will begin to blur after a while. This being especially true given the proliferation of online dating (and telling people to simply reject online dating is akin to tell them to reject online shopping: the old era has passed and is disappearing, unlikely to return anytime soon).

classicslayer · 2021-04-22T17:47:37+00:00

Personality only matters if there is a base level of attraction.

4D-Alien · 2021-04-22T19:11:37+00:00

If you are above said persons threshold, then personality matters after that.

You cant a be a ugly guy with amazing personality. That wont work. However a good looking guy with a shit personality will work

2021-04-22T14:57:21+00:00

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Sad_Top1743 · 2021-04-22T14:53:07+00:00

The disconnect in modern dating between men and women is that women’s bar for attractiveness is way higher than what they say it is. They’re not lying when they say looks get you through the door and then personality matters. But they don’t mention the fine print that you have to be an 8 or above to even get through the door.

If you’re not an 8, she might entertain your offer, but the guy has to jestermaxx by planning dates, taking her out to dinner, initiating texting, etc. Unfortunately guys think this is normal bc they’ve never seen how girls will do anything to get with Chad and set the bar for personality to the floor for Chad. That would pretty much shatter their outlook on life lol.

Sid_Insidious · 2021-04-22T15:17:11+00:00

No, you need a bare minimum level of attraction.

...thus disproving your own point on the importance of personality.

Personality is more of a deal breaker.

It comes down to the person must be

(a) attractive to me and

(b) not any of the following (or too much of the following)

A good personality alone is worthless, as you have indicated. A hot person with a bad enough personality might have problems. Whenever I hear the stories of "women going back for yet more" I always wonder... how majestic is the jawline on this asshole?

It's astonishing how much shit and abuse someone will take when they're gaga over someone.

Red Pill calls this "oneitis" - the idea of "the one" and that "one" can do no wrong.

Very toxic.

As for your link, well yeah, married men make more than their single counterparts - because they have to. Women dispense with 80% of discretionary income of BOTH PARTIES when in relationships. You just sort of take over the bank account.

I earn less (theoretically) than my married counterparts, yet I have more money.

Hmmmm... That's all that meme is suggesting. Relationships cost men MONEY. That's why women have to put in all that "free emotional labor" hahahahaha.

decoy88 · 2021-04-22T17:48:25+00:00

It's not projection. It's inexperience. They have not experiences getting to the stage where a woman or man's personality as become a factor. These are likely men who never made it past the first date with anyone, or even to the first date.

It's all shit chatting theorising. Not to mention that women that have a welcoming personality and smiles attract way more people than cold RBF chicks.

It's not that they don't care, they simply aren't self-aware enough to know how it effects them.

reLincolnX · 2021-04-22T14:14:08+00:00

This whole post is quite delusional.

What you say OP would be true and valid if reality didn't paint a completely different picture.

First, in your take, you kinda forgot about the Halo Effect and the impact it has on dating (and in everything for that matter). Since I know there is a lot of lazy people here I'm going to quote the relevant part.

People’s first impressions of others influence their later decision as to either approach or avoid those individuals.[43] When people first encounter someone, the information present about that individual is limited; therefore, people will use the information available to assume other characteristics about that person; for instance, observable behaviors such as eye contact, leaning forward, smiling and positive hand gestures (ex. steepling hands) are linked to positive emotions, while avoiding eye contact, leaning back, avoiding touch, and defensive hand gestures (ex. hands in pockets) or no gestures at all are linked to feelings of detachment.[43] Besides that, another popular example used when referring to the halo effect is the phenomenon called the attractiveness stereotype.[6] People tend to assume that physically attractive individuals are more likely to be more healthy, successful, courteous, containing higher moral standards, and greater social competence than other people; on the other hand, the attractiveness stereotype can also carry a negative connotation as some people may think of attractive people as less honest and more conceited than others.[6]

Dion, Berscheid & Walster (1972) conducted a study on the relationship between attractiveness and the halo effect. Sixty students, thirty males and thirty females from the University of Minnesota took part in the experiment. Each subject was given three different photos to examine: one of an attractive individual, one of an individual of average attractiveness, and one of an unattractive individual.[44] The participants judged the photos' subjects along 27 different personality traits (including altruism, conventionality, self-assertiveness, stability, emotionality, trustworthiness, extraversion, kindness, and sexual promiscuity). Participants were then asked to predict the overall happiness the photos' subjects would feel for the rest of their lives, including marital happiness (least likely to get divorced), parental happiness (most likely to be a good parent), social and professional happiness (most likely to experience life fulfillment), and overall happiness. Finally, participants were asked if the subjects would hold a job of high status, medium status, or low status.[44] Results showed that most of the participants overwhelmingly believed more attractive subjects have more socially desirable personality traits than either averagely attractive or unattractive subjects, would lead happier lives in general, have happier marriages, and have more career success, including holding more secure, prestigious jobs. Participants, however, believed that attractive individuals would be worse parents than both average attractive and unattractive individuals.

This alone suffices to shatter your whole claim.

Then now let's talk about what happens in real life beyond the virtue-signaling the vast majority of women and their simps partake in.

40% of 18-24 men are sexless. The trend is rising to da moon. 51% of 18-29 men are single. There is already study to show what OLD look like for men.

Once you said that you can simp around and telling us that in fact, these dudes have simply bad personalities and that's why women don't give them the time of the day. Or you can start not buying the just-world fallacy (and the women are wonderful effect) and understand that there is something else going on here.

I would also talk about frat bro, finance bro, and overall men who aren't feminism friendly at all who reap more female and never get a shortage of pussy compared to average Joe who tries to "educated himself" about women's grievances.

I would also talk about Nikola Cruz, Parkland shooter, who went from Incel to literally be flooded by nudes and love letters by fangirls. Jeremy Meeks came also to the mind.

But yeah: "just have a good personality bro"!

merewautt · 2021-04-22T22:54:27+00:00

Or they think that there's ONE type of personality that women mean when they say this, and see deviations from the success of that personality type as evidence that personalities don't matter at all.

It's why I object to the idea of giving men advice on dating at all--- they cannot help but filter anything you say through their belief that women are a monolith, and if two women contradict each other in their desires, that they've done something "wrong".

So not only do they have this monolithic vision of women, they've MORALIZED that expectation of monolithic behavior as "correct". Have you ever noticed that men who think ALL women are life sucking evil Succubi are just as happy as so-called "blue pill" men or simps? It's because what they all really want from women is predictability--- not any specific virtue or behavior.

The worst thing women can do as a class is be diverse and unpredictable. Men are just dandy feeling superior to and surrounded by evil women, with no goals but to suck them dry. But they are NOT okay being confused, and unable to get what they want from woman as a class.

THAT situation (which, unfortunately, is reality) is infuriating to them, because it leaves them with nothing to do but live as they authentically would like to (if they're even aware of what that is yet) , and hope to connect with the subset of women (which may be just 1 or even zero!) who find their authentic lives and personalities appealing. Which is what women do, and is no guarantee of a partnership at all. Which is a level of helplessness and lack of control men are not used to and find degrading and unacceptable in "important" areas of their life.

It's obviously the genuinely fair and objective scenario, but it's also contrary to what our culture advertises and fetishizes as romantic summitting for men, so many of them are genuinely unable to enjoy it or accept it. A man accepting that women are just as individual and unpredictable in preferences as men, and that there genuinely no guarantee of any romance in life is seen as a degraded person because of what we've told men success with women even is.

They're ruined mentally, and will never be able to enjoy a relationship with ONE woman until they feel like the method they used to get her would have worked to get ANY (or many) other women. Success romantically isn't "success" unless it was based on the understanding of women AS A CLASS, and thus control and successful deployment of strategy, and not just the unpredictable blossoming of feelings between two people. If there's very little control over when and how romance with women enters their life (so, the reality), they will be less satisfied, and will be furious at the lack of strategy to be employed until that happens.

Many of them will NEVER be able to relax and enjoy (or even begin) relationships with women in this scenario, for fear losing of losing them, and again being having to play to the evil-ness of "whims" to get another one. Not understanding that that's how EVERYONE must operate in a system where neither gender is passed around as resource to another in any formally organized way, like was done in the past when the media they were fed was created. The way we've game-ified and advice-ified romance with women for men will be the death of their enjoyment of it in any culture where woman are allowed to express individuality and cultivate personal tastes to the level men are. Thus making an advice or game theory subjective at best. Men who want to roll back freedoms for women have realized this basic fact and want to bring order back to how romance and sex is gained from women. It's not about evil, it's not right or wrong, it's about order and predictability. You can't have that in a system where women ( or either sex, really) are allowed to not engage in romance at all and to live wildly different lives, strategizing to wildly different end goals, to other women.

tldr- men don't want virtue or true romantic interactions with women, they want predictability. They want a romantic system that can be understood and applied to all women, whether it means the women in it are perfect or pure evil. Because then it can strategized with, and in the failure of all strategy, can at least be critiqued meaningfully. Reality and the non-monolithic nature of modern women denies modern men all of this. also just read it you fucks.

Mrs_Drgree · 2021-04-22T18:14:09+00:00

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Aldabruzzo · 2021-04-22T15:03:10+00:00

This discussion cannot be had until we determine what you mean by "attraction". Depending on how "attraction" is defined, personality definitely does affect it, might affect it, could affect it, probably does not affect it, or definitely does not affect it.

Can't address this until we know what you mean by "attraction".

Pilling_it · 2021-04-22T15:33:00+00:00

Can we stop pretending we give a shit about people in the first place? That's just feelgood talk thrown into the gutter when put in practice.

And people like to put each other in boxes, and if you're not happy about it, don't worry, they'll have another ready for you. Most accurate way to describe people is that we belong to many of them at once, but people like to generalize.

2021-04-23T01:20:47+00:00

Lilith virtue signaling yet again.

Go back to FDS.

usedtimecapsule · 2021-04-22T18:52:53+00:00

What does the picture have to do with this? It’s facts.

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NinjaOfTheSouth · 2021-04-22T13:59:19+00:00

It really doesn’t , we have been over this. Facial attraction and popularity is what affects a mans attraction the most.

LaChoffe · 2021-04-22T15:08:10+00:00

Constantly surrounds themselves with terrible people. It's so bad that they don't believe sane pleasant people of the opposite gender exist.

Everyone I hang out with has good personalities so looks are the only differentiating factor.

DP8414 · 2021-04-22T21:21:32+00:00

Personality matters at the margins. It doesn't turn an ugly or average guy into a Chad. It doesn't make him go from undesirable to desirable. The worst it can do is make a Chad unattractive when the woman deems he's too much of an asshole to bother with. Contrary to what the movies teach us, and what the RedPillers believe, most Chads aren't assholes. They know how to get out of their own way and let the women flock to them.

You do make an interesting point though about people like me not valuing others individual personalities. I don't deny that men and women differ by all the traits you mention, particularly culture and values, where there are indeed vast differences between individuals and people groups.

However, when dealing with the people of my own culture - which is Midwest American culture - I do tend to treat everyone the same and disregard their differences because they well and truly don't matter to me. I've alienated several former friends this way when they got pissed that I was "viewing everything in terms of archetypes," as one of them put it.

To me, that just screams, 'I'm a special snowflake, I'm different than everyone else!" which is an attitude I spit on because it's destroying my culture and my civilization. Expressive individualism is absolute cancer, and as far as I'm concerned, there are certain behaviors and ways of doing things that everyone should be subordinated to and pressured into complying with. Like telling the truth and not sharing soothing lies.

Kemence97 · 2021-04-22T14:49:30+00:00

Trying to explain things to incels part 23678

RepresentativeSwan1 · 2021-04-22T16:10:09+00:00

If personality actually affected attraction to any significant degree, then couples wouldn't be as extremely looksmatched as they are, as people would be pairing up based on personality preference more than based on what is the best looking partner they can get.

But that is not the case. Aside from the rare exception, couples are extremely looksmatched because that is the most important component of attraction, and people pair up mostly based on what is the best looking partner they can get (and keep!) in a monogamous society with an about 50/50 male to female ratio.

cloudsongs_ · 2021-04-22T17:57:52+00:00

If I were to see someone in public that I don't know, attraction > personality....for a bit. As soon as I'm talking to them and see what they're like, attraction fizzles really quickly. It doesn't necessarily mean that they're terrible people but I could see them as a friend rather than a partner. Attraction is important for some people at the beginning but there HAS to be something else to sustain the relationship past the "honeymoon" phase, and that usually is compatibility in personalities, values and goals.

wtknight · 2021-04-22T15:01:07+00:00

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Cobra_x30 · 2021-04-22T16:25:57+00:00

I think what you mean to say is that regarding men... game is required. Personality is bullshit, most of these guys are frightened introverts too shy to talk to women. That means their personality is actually a handicap.

Instead these guys need to learn game. That allows them to put up an attractive persona to women. That will ultimately lead to success.

LillthOfBabylon · 2021-04-22T19:06:01+00:00

[deleted]

mcjon77 · 2021-04-22T19:47:58+00:00

100% true. Personality absolutely affects attraction. I can think back to college two girls that I was quite attracted to primarily because of their personality. The funny part is it's almost too subtle to notice, in that I knew that I was attracted to them but I didn't realize it was primarily due to their personality.

One girl was a 4 in the face and the other was (if we're being honest) a 2 in the face. But they were so pleasant to be with that you almost don't notice it. You're too busy laughing with them and enjoying the time you spend with them.

It's a lot like how money can change a woman's view of a man's attractiveness. I have personally met women who were legitimately more attracted to a guy and didn't realize it was because this person was wealthy and successful. Have this guy been some average guy they wouldn't have been attracted to him at all.

Now there is a limit to this, obviously. If a woman's had her whole face melted off then I might not be attracted to a no matter how great a personality is. However, even then some people can still be attracted. I remember seeing a guy on television who was a burn victim but was dating the woman who was a solid 7.

Personality goes a long way.

toasterchild · 2021-04-22T20:36:37+00:00

I really like your number 3. This is so true.

CentralAdmin · 2021-04-22T22:31:27+00:00

"But you need good looks to get through the front door!"
No, you need a bare minimum level of attraction. A person's bare minimum is person-dependent. Some people can take anything over a 3. Some people won't go lower than 7.

If only this shit wasn't true:

https://www.boredpanda.com/social-experiment-guy-created-fake-tinder-profile-hot-model-pictures-germanlifter/

Your theory may hold for attractive people, but average Joe has to work for a woman's attention. Your ideology is nice and all that but part of the reason the sub even exists is because good, well meaning people are chewed up and spat out by a SMP that treats them as disposable, especially for men.

That pic you criticised for treating dating as prostitution is, unfortunately, a pragmatic way for many people to see and treat dating. What does a man do when his first dates go nowhere and he is footing the bill the entire time for women who feel entitled to freebies? What is a logical reaction to women wanting a man with a job and his own place when they are tens of thousands in debt?

I mean we can leave room for romance all we like but the reality is that the attractive people have it easy. If you're going to dump the blame at the feet of the unattractive people Just World Fallacy style, keep in mind that they cannot play by the same rules that attractive people do.

For example, it is very easy for men and women who have been hurt to gather and compare notes. They will create defensive strategies around dating to defend themselves. A pretty young woman may never need those if everyone keeps offering her attention, help and freebies. Beautiful people live in a bubble. For everyone else there is unfortunately not an endless supply of altruistic or compatible matches. They need to do the work required to attract a decent partner, who may also be wary of dating just anyone.

The fact that 100 million people are single in the US means it's more than just an attitude problem preventing people from getting together. There are fewer cultural, financial and social incentives available to them when pairing up.

If you are advocating for more personal responsibility, then great! The red pill has been talking about improving looks and attitudes for years. But if you're just blaming ugly people for not having enough of a personality to overcome the physical attraction requirements, you're no different than anyone else shitting on them already for allegedly being toxic. It doesn't change anything. It makes them more defensive especially when they notice beautiful or rich people not even needing a personality to find someone.

thatguyfromrichmond · 2021-04-23T00:32:58+00:00

Since you're fds in chief can you tell us what projection they put on men? they think all men are trash and just don't see women as human's so are they projecting that that is how they actually feel about the opposite gender?

mandoa_sky · 2021-04-23T00:42:02+00:00

well the older you are, the more personality trumps looks (think). it would explain the STI statistics in the retirement community

Spiritual_Try_246 · 2021-04-23T02:21:24+00:00

What’s up with 3 and 7. Is that supposed to be a rating of someone’s looks? Now I’ve seen ridiculous things in my life but this takes the cake.

7__7__7__7 · 2021-04-23T10:25:44+00:00

Thank you. When someone says personality doesn't matter, it just shows that (a) they are shallow, (b) they have no personality, or (c) their personality is horrible. Very telling.

#1 is so true. There is no such thing as a male or female personality. That's beyond stupid.

Notsonewguy7 · 2021-04-23T15:22:09+00:00

I don't think anyone would honestly say that they think personality is unimportant is just it won't help you if the looks aren't there to begin with. I met a lot of women in my life that I thought were really great people but for whatever reason I was in attracted to them and no matter how good of a personality a person has if I don't want to have sex with them I'm not going to date them.

And I'm just saying that as a man and I'm pretty sure most women have the same opinion. I can understand the idea that personality could hurt if I like someone physically and then their personality is a garbage pile then yeah I'll still be attracted to them but I won't pursue anything with them but you having a great personality and me not being interested in you I'm still going to not be interested in you.

Good-Strong · 2021-04-23T15:57:57+00:00

Everybody (and I mean EVERYBODY) cares about personality to some extent in a long erm relationship.

Even the incels/red pillers are so particular about getting a really submissive, homely, innocent, sexually open girl. Those are all personality traits lmao.

Senzatie3579 · 2021-04-24T13:33:53+00:00

Personality doesn't matter at all in the practical sense. It doesn't mean that I'd date a woman with any personality, or that women will marry any asshole.

The thing is that personality is completely useless if you're not attractive enough, especially if you want the type of passionate and carefree relationship where a woman has geniune strong desire for you. Sure you can get a girlfriend if you're a good slave or an entertaining jester, but that gets old real fast.

If you're not attractive, you're not even in the game and personality doesn't matter. Personality is more of a flavour than a base.

The choice for hot women when it comes to dating is hot nerd guy vs hot surfer guy. They just have too many options.

Throughawayman80808 · 2021-04-26T16:35:15+00:00

A good personality can turn a 8/10 dude into a 10/10, but it can't turn a 5/10 into a 10/10. Attractive narcissists will always win over uggos with hearts of gold.

TheJim66 · 2021-04-22T14:27:59+00:00

They think gender is a personality.

No.They think, correctly, that gender affects personality A LOT. Men and women have evolved differently and our biological reality made us have different drives and instinct. For example, testosterone makes men have SIGNIFICANTLY higher libido than women . Sexual attraction is an instinctual drive that isn't affected in any significant way by nurture. It's almost entirely shaped by "nature".There are variations within the gender but they still have the same basis. All women are hypergamous for example or are attracted to looks, status and game (alpha personality) but there is variation in how hypergamous a woman is and which of the three factors she places more importance in.

Similarly, the personality that is sexually attractive to women is mostly the same across the female gender.

Constantly surrounds themselves with terrible people.

I doubt this happens in any significant percentage. At least for men. Men say there are a lot of sluts nowadays because indeed sluts are the majority of women in Western urban areas.

Shallowness

Just world fallacy

Treat dating like prostitution.

Sure, if they do that, it's on them. However indeed all women want resources out of men they commit to. What differentiates women is on whether the providership is the sole reason they are dating the dude and the level of providership they require.

Otherwise, I don't understand how someone can think personality can't help or hurt someone's chances in love/dating when it happens all the time

Personality does matter. Quite a lot actually. Just not the kind of personality women and bloops think of. Alpha personality as described by TRP is sexually attractive. Beta personality is sexually unattractive.

Aubrey_D_Graham · 2021-04-22T15:21:05+00:00

Personality affects arousal very little, which most men fail to differentiate from attraction. Men also glaze over the fact, but personality is a very important metric for a man to decide to commit. Men want cooperative women.

jelokqdszz · 2021-04-22T16:33:25+00:00

Has anyone ever changed your mind on anything here?

theowaway172772627 · 2021-04-22T17:23:40+00:00

Id assume when you say these guys say personality doesn’t matter maybe they mean for short term, because for long term no reasonable guy wants to be stuck with someone they don’t actually like.

Sometimes in a guys early years dating they’d be willing to tolerate a shitty personality for a roll in the hay with a physically beautiful woman, the same way a female may ignore bad qualities for a tall, really good looking guy.

I feel like once people get some experience they wise out of this dynamic because you realize it simply isn’t worth being around someone cringeworthy/abusive etc.

TwoFirmFeet · 2021-04-22T19:08:54+00:00

If personality mattered more than looks, women would never be in abusive relationships cause theyd catch that shit a mile away or run the fuck away

When a person claim "Personality doesn't affect attraction", it's projection. That person doesn't value people's individual personalities.

Comments

READ THE LAST PARAGRAPH OF MY POST.

Title	When a person claim "Personality doesn't affect attraction", it's projection. That person doesn't value people's individual personalities.
Author	LillthOfBabylon
Upvotes	196
Comments	353
Date	April 22, 2021 1:40 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/mw4zds/when_a_person_claim_personality_doesnt_affect/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/when-a-person-claim-personality-doesnt-affect.761845 https://theredarchive.com/post/761845