Societal Shift in Attitudes Towards Becoming a Stepfather/Dating Single Moms in Younger Generations?

Kaisha001 · 2021-08-29T02:50:04+00:00

I'm not asking those here why they wouldn't date a single mom, I am asking what caused this societal shift to occur? What led to the spread of these beliefs? Or do you disagree with the premise, have these attitudes always been this common?

The view that women are no longer victims of circumstance, and are now the cause/instigators of their own situation. Part of having freedom of choice, is responsibility for those choices.

social_mule · 2021-08-29T02:58:54+00:00

Single mothers fall into three categories:

Widows (low negative stigma)
Divorcees (moderate negative stigma)
Baby mamas (high negative stigma)

Although the term "single mother" is used I'd wager that 90% of the derision you describe is directed toward the third group.

The reason for the shift is because baby mamas (the group with the highest negative stigma) make up a much larger percentage of the overall single mother population than they did in past generations. Martha Washington was a widow, not a baby mama.

old_wise_man_ · 2021-08-29T04:39:12+00:00

My mom was the one who told me to never ever date a single mom. My mom had to raise step-kids( my half brother and sister) and she told me that even though she loves my father, if she could go back in time she wouldn’t marry him. That being said, people will only date or marry people with kids if they can have their own kids with that person. There is no change in society views. the difference is that opinions became louder.

Naus1987 · 2021-08-29T05:37:19+00:00

I wonder if the rise of divorce/casual relationships played a role.

One of the reasons I’ve seen men refuse to date mothers is because they worry growing attached to a child only to have them ripped from them.

In both examples you mentioned, with Washington and Joseph— those guys were free to bond with their kids, and they didn’t fear getting close only for the mother to rip the family away from them.

Not to double down on that beta bucks thing too. But men probably don’t want to invest in a family that’s not forever.

A guy can justify a lot of sacrifice for his (forever) children, but you asks a guy to give to temporary childcare charity? And they’ll say duck that, where’s my legacy?

Men just want stability, and the real tragedy of modern dating is the loss is stability. A single mother is already proof of concept that the woman will leave under the right conditions.

And while a woman has every right and the freedom to leave a relationship she doesn’t want to be in, the sad fact is that if she expects a (perfect) man — that man probably will seek a (perfect) woman, who he can have (forever) kids with.

——

It’s weird for sure. My personal story is that I basically mentor my nephew, because he doesn’t have a father figure. And part of my joy from that is exactly what I mentioned above — he is a (forever) nephew. I can invest in him, and he’ll always be there.

He doesn’t have to actually be my kid for us to have some awesome adventures, but I don’t want to invest my emotional energy in a kid I wouldn’t have the privilege to know forever.

So I think men absolutely can invest in children that aren’t theirs, but a man values family and stability. And single mothers don’t exactly represent that.

But the ones who do make work—those are always great stories. The Disney movie (Onward) was a great story with a step father in it.

NockerJoe · 2021-08-29T03:10:51+00:00

I remember as soon as normie dudebro types discovered facebook they were already complaining about single moms. There just wasn't a whole meta discussion on it. It was just obviously a thing men were already talking about and wasn't controversial until that meta discussion happened.

Before the internet took over peoples lives I think single moms had their discussions where real men always go the distance, and single dudes had their discussions on how a single mom is settling in and of itself, and they just weren't regularly having those conversations where the other group could see.

I don't think there was ever a point when men actually made single moms a priority. If they did, social housing for mothers with kids and no men wouldn't basically be shorthand for social housing in general since the entire concept existed.

AntWillFortune15 · 2021-08-29T07:37:48+00:00

I think men that want kids usually want to share that first experience together. They want to see how beautiful their pregnant wife is with the little bundle joy they made together, feeling proud and protective, being excited and nervous together, learning everything and seeing all the kid's firsts together, teaching the kid everything they know. Seeing how neat it is that the kid looks like a mixture of both him and his wife, choosing the name together, having the whole family share the same last name, feeling proud of building all this. He wants the same authority the mother has, to be respected and loved as "dad", not "the stepdad that comes second to dad", and not "the stepdad I don't share a bond with". Stepchild will never say: "thank you for creating me"

I also think that a woman with kids is intimidating. Some men have never interacted with children, it's awkward, and they have no childcare skills. Even men with experience know it's a big commitment, and a big ass responsibility. Imagine going from 0 to 100, when your date introduces you to her kids early on, and then you feel stuck because you don't want to let this kid down, or this hopeful mother. And now you're feeding and sheltering multiple humans, it requires more money than if it were just her.

Then, gotta think whether or not this woman has good critical thinking. She got herself into a bad situation, her judgment about the kid's dad was off, and subconsciously you think this is what she deserves. And you deserve someone that's careful like you are, a woman you know wouldn't have a kid with just anybody. Someone that chooses wisely and commits. It's flattering when a woman chooses you to make her a mother. You'll never know if she had a good bond with her ex when she had that kid or if it was a dumb whim that she wasted on a loser. It's degrading if she chooses another man but then makes YOU sacrifice your time, money, sleep, and energy on her kid with very little incentive for you.

Not to mention not getting to enjoy non-parent life together for the first years together. Not having fond memories of the child growing up. Not getting the pleasure of smiling thinking about who your wife was when she wasn't a mom yet, remembering her free spirit. Not ever getting to realize and appreciate how much effort she used to put in before. It's just a fast forwarded relationship without the intimacy of getting to grow together, trust each other, and make choices together leading up to the biggest decision of both of your lives.

Final reason - not being seen in society as a real father, and if he says he has has a stepdaughter, there will be looks, there will always be people that make jokes or are curious about whether you perv on her, whereas just saying "daughter" has people in awe of you as the big protective daddy.

The-Devilz-Advocate · 2021-08-29T03:48:16+00:00

George Washington was a stepfather, and Joseph is Jesus's stepfather

Yeah, but back then, women were still either considered to be incapable of self supporting themselves or they weren't allowed to self support. So it was more acceptable for a man to marry a woman with children. Now they are able to self support, and have their full autonomy of their actions, which in turn SHOULD entail personal responsibilities.

The problem is however, that the majority of single mothers right now are just looking for a handout, somebody that can NOW take care of both their children and her as a BASELINE MINIMUM of qualifications on top of all the other extra qualifications she will no doubt have for a man. Even then, what does having the ability to support the woman and the children guarantee a man that is interested in a potential relationship with said woman?

Absolutely nothing.

I'm not asking those here why they wouldn't date a single mom, I am asking what caused this societal shift to occur?

Women's liberation and at this point privilege in the online dating market?

What led to the spread of these beliefs?

Internet. It's not a question about how, but why. Why did it spread? Because those beliefs were born out of MULTIPLE real life examples of men getting fucked over by the justice system, or by the women they loved.

Point is that there are every day hundreds, maybe thousands of examples on the internet as to why dating single mothers has more diminishing returns than any sort of advantage. So obviously the younger generation will take all this information and internalize it.

Anantha1996 · 2021-08-29T03:14:50+00:00

I think part of it is the recognition that being a single mom is a consequence of their choices. While not always true, this reduces sympathy and focuses on the objective disadvantages of dating someone who already has kids.

I think another change is that men have become less reliant on spouses for emotional support (therapy, friends and online groups are filling that role to a larger degree) while women are less reliant on men to provide and protect them. The primary drivers for relationships are gone, so now people search for reasons for their relationship to be special, hence making the 'beta bucks' issue significantly more prominent.

The dehumanizing aspect may be a byproduct of how dating works today. People pursue different partners at the same time (I don't mean cheating, previous to becoming exclusive phase) and this inherently dehumanizes their partners into options.

cvslengthbucketlist · 2021-08-29T03:22:53+00:00

IMO, the societal shift away from viewing single parents as a reasonable dating choice occurred because the nature of online dating, technology, and social media have shortened attention spans and trained people to adopt the assumption of abundant choice: that someone better, hotter, more ideal is only a swipe away. It's the reason why TikTok consists of short video clips, why Twitter has character limits, etc. The way to incentivize people to consume more content is by making it bite-sized, "inexpensive" time-wise, and easily replaceable.

Ok_Razzmatazz_1751 · 2021-08-29T03:50:20+00:00

Society is expensive to live in and when you've already getting married into a makeshift family you're taking on extra debt ,and a lot of guys are not built for that extra debt these days, and then you have it to where you're supposed to be a awesome caring stepfather , but you're not allowed to discipline the child. You have all these children with oppositional defiance disorder running around , I would not encourage any guy to marry a single mother just being honest. Especially a mother that has children with disciplinary problems. Seems like it's more stress than anything .

Physiologist21 · 2021-08-29T04:44:21+00:00

Information.

b-raddit · 2021-08-29T13:11:20+00:00

I think one aspect that isn't taken in to account is that a lot of these single moms explicitly say they want someone to take care of them and their child(ren), monetarily.

Any man with a single working brain cell will and should, rightfully so, avoid these gold digging heifers.

There's usually a reason that the baby's father isn't any near this woman. Usually at the fault of their own.

It's a shitty predicament and I wish more women put their children and baby's father at the forefront but why would they when they can find Joe Blow to pay for their feet or dirty panties to fund baby formula.

The whole web is a mess. And women, unfortunately, fail to hold each other accountable.

Jakes1967 · 2021-08-29T06:57:13+00:00

Men who married women that had children from previous relationships had previously been viewed as fairly normal, good men who just happened to be marrying a woman that had kids.

Absolute rubbish, growing up, the socially awkward guys were told, that's there's always the step-dad role.

They've always had derogatory nicknames and comments - R2D2, Next and Dubby were all used and not in a nice way.

Married men saw them as a threat and women viewed them as compliant.

There's always a several media and cultural tropes that paint these men in a positive light, as the man who took on the responsibility to take care of children who didn't have a father.

Gee no, someone pushing an agenda, imagine that. Actually the media we're stupid and even shows, or films still had the most common slurs - "you aren't my real dad" etc.

Of course, there are also stereotypes of the abusive stepfather, but the role was rarely viewed as the pathetic position many young men view it today.

Rubbish, it was never the vaulted position, that the media made it out to be. In single mother areas, step-dads were accepted, but more as a commodity and not head of the household.

It's more accepted today than ever before.

Even historically, George Washington was a stepfather, and Joseph is Jesus's stepfather, as was many other individuals in history, but they aren't viewed with the derision that exists today.

You're trying to normalise something that wasn't.

At some point in the 2010's there seemed to have been a shift in attitudes for those under 30 (maybe under 40 as well), where becoming a stepfather/dating a single mom is now viewed as pathetic and bordering on cuckoldry.

It always was seen as being a voluntary cuckold. The more traditional and conservative, the less accepted step-dads were.

Single moms are verbally abused online and described as "bottom of the barrel" when it comes to dating. Even a beautiful woman on dating apps would be passed over for a serious relationship by a significant percentage of young men if she had a child.

And?

Of course there is the commonly expressed view of "beta bucks", but these views aren't limited to just men in TRP communities. They are expressed in almost all subcultures that young men frequent. It's form of dehumanization for everyone involved; the stepdad/boyfriend, the mom, and the kids are all stereotyped into the worst possible versions of these roles.

And have always been. Having listened to a few step-dads vent, it ain't no bed of roses and childless women are the worst culprits for insulting and shaming them.

I'm not asking those here why they wouldn't date a single mom, I am asking what caused this societal shift to occur? What led to the spread of these beliefs? Or do you disagree with the premise, have these attitudes always been this common?

Step fathers have never been readily accepted in society, they've always been the butt of jokes and pretty much shunned in society.

velvetunderground111 · 2021-08-29T08:36:45+00:00

Folks, you are young: single moms had a huge, huge stigma in the 1960's, when this whole thing started. Many hippie women (including my mother, after giving birth to my older half brother) were shunned for getting pregnant out of wedlock in the heat of 1968. The kids were referred to as "bastards" and the mother was basically seen as a whore. This stigma has gone down a lot since, then, but it it still kinda/sort there.

So I dunno...single mothers certainly have it better now than they did 40 or more years ago. The fact that not a lot of dudes want to date them isn't as bad as the hardcore hatred they used to receive for even existing. If you want examples of this, look up "The Unwed Mother" on youtube. It's a 1960's news piece about young single mothers and it will show you how society viewed them back then.

Teflon08191 · 2021-08-29T03:22:21+00:00

I suspect the "don't need no man" variety of feminism has had a significant effect on men's general willingness to save women from themselves in all manner of things, including single motherhood.

Disposition11 · 2021-08-29T05:19:21+00:00

Men just don't like playing other men's savegames. IOW men don't like taking on other men's responsibilities - especially the kid some Chad fathered and then abandoned. Plus there is the often true belief that she is a single mom because of bad choices in men.

The movie "Are We There Yet?" depicted a scenario that is not uncommon in real life, too. There's also that aspect.

Single moms also come with a ton of emotional baggage. For instance you will find most personal ads by single moms say accusatory shit like "I ain't takin' care of no man-babies!" That's a giant red flag that she's got baggage from another man. Men prefer women without baggage, just like women avoid men with insecurities or emotional baggage like the plague.

I happen to think single moms should just hook up with single dads. Though I also think a ton of those single dads got where they were because they stuck their dick in crazy and got burned.

velvetunderground111 · 2021-08-29T08:51:17+00:00

One thing that also never gets talked about, even with "normal" married couples: many men resent the fact that the mom spends so much time with the kid after the kid is born. The focus goes from the man to the children. I know guys in my 12-step program who are dealing with this and the sudden shift drove some to drink. If this is true in NORMAL BIOLOGICAL couples, how much more fucked would you feel if the kid is not even yours?

Just being real.

alb0s · 2021-08-29T10:52:29+00:00

The whole step father single moms scene is a big joke. Do you think it is coincidence that we associate single moms with childless stepfathers ? The logical thing would be to get a partner that’s a parent themselves, that way they comprehend the value of the parent child dynamic, and how important it really is, instead they aim for naive unaware men that can be milked in the relationship. The guy is literally raising some else’s kids with their labour and hard work, supporting the family and in most cases also being denied his biological purpose of getting kids themselves, since the mom already had kids she’s not ready to start the process over again. This way men are kept in a limbo, thinking things will change. And to top it all off once they try assuming the father role through other ways , like guiding and playing a role in their upbringing, if there is a dispute over upbringing the mom will shut the step dad up with “you’re not their real father” - how can any self respecting man wish this position on himself?

no_user_ID_found · 2021-08-29T07:09:31+00:00

Might be a social tendency to get the divorce-rates down. Way too many people being raised without a father-figure in their life. A father is important.

Blackheart201992 · 2021-08-29T13:59:26+00:00

Implying single moms were ever an attractive choice to begin with? This is how men always felt - as the genders drift further apart, there's less and less incentive to be "polite".

coldestblack · 2021-08-29T14:11:22+00:00

I don't what it is. It's not rational, but I have an intense hatred for single mothers, regardless of their circumstance.

mayoissandwichpus · 2021-08-29T15:06:26+00:00

Relationships are still about love. If you love her and love her kids, what difference does it make what society thinks? Lots of step kids see their step dad or stop mom as dad or mom.

John_Oakman · 2021-08-29T02:51:13+00:00

Part of the overall trend of modern subcultures having an anti social bent, with anti social in the sense of being against the continuing functioning of society. The anti social bent came about with the breakdown of the existing social contract due to the great recession, where its perceived that society isn't worth to save or maintain due to its moral bankruptcy.

_Neon_Shadow_ · 2021-08-29T03:16:44+00:00

What caused this societal shift to occur?

I'd say vast income inequality and feminism. Feminism because women want to be treated equally, and that means being held accountable. Income inequality because its too expensive to have children, so they are seen as a burden.

What led to the spread of these beliefs?

TRP and the manosphere.

ThrowAwayBro737 · 2021-08-29T11:30:32+00:00

and Joseph is Jesus's stepfather,

This made me chuckle. I’m not a religious scholar but I don’t think that counts. Being the “step-father” to the son of God through virgin birth doesn’t seem like the same thing as a woman who voluntarily made a bunch of bad choices and now wants to settle for you.

I'm not asking those here why they wouldn't date a single mom, I am asking what caused this societal shift to occur?

Feminism and the absolute breakdown of social gender norms. I suspect that not wanting to partner with a single mother is the natural way of things. But society created conventions to change this and improve society for both women and men who were not “1st picked” type of men. This was done by casting step-fathers as heroes and single moms as victims of dead beat and loser men who were unmasculine for avoiding their responsibility.

But now, thanks to feminism, these gender roles have been demolished and the mask has fallen. We are back to the state of nature. Single mothers are no longer viewed as victims but as greedy and selfish. They essentially wanted hot sex with a 1st picked guy but now wants the 2nd pick guy to raise another man’s offspring. This is insulting to modern men because the social conventions of the hero step-dad are gone.

oh-ma-glob · 2021-08-29T12:52:18+00:00

It is less likely that there was a societal shift in attitude and more likely that your social media circles are a subset of people who have this mindset.

IAmNotAGirlYet · 2021-08-29T13:13:38+00:00

Single mom is too wide of a definition. Is she a widow or a rape victim? No problem. What would be bad was a woman who chose a deadbeat. Or someone who got tired of her husband and divorced him.

4derp · 2021-08-29T14:07:51+00:00

Single mothers used to be less common. Women at least made an attempt to make their relationships work. Something has changed in the dynamic, and now there are an incredible amount of women who are making bad decisions in partner choices and procreation so they end up single with children. You can forgive a mistake, but a mistake that so many women are making cannot be ignored - the focus on avoiding the drama of single mothers is an adaptation in strategy. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Physical-Pie748 · 2021-08-29T14:09:56+00:00

not sure what other men think who are young, but i will never, in my entire life, date single mothers or get a stepfather. never in my life, they didnt want me in their youth and as a father and as the first choice, so i wont be exit plan.

the problem is we have more and more single mothers, and also more and more men who cant get sex. this means more and more single mothers are just pumped and dumped by a smaller % of men who can get more than 1 women. its not my fault if they choose bad men as a father, and i wont rescue them and help them after their own mistake. so it would be better for them to choose men who cant get sex and also would help them from the beginning, and not go to these men later in her 40s when she already is a single mother who was pumped and dumped. thats just unfair towards those men who couldnt get her in her younger years

LMM-GT02 · 2021-08-29T15:26:44+00:00

I hope not. Don’t have children if you are not married. You’re just doing your kids a statistical disservice.

Dagenius1 · 2021-08-29T16:51:03+00:00

Now this is an interesting discussion.

So much has changed over say the last 20-30 years in terms of single moms and step dads. The internet, choices, divorce vs marriage rates. Thinking back to when I was a kid, I saw step father relationships both in my family and among my friends so I’ll focus a bit on the internet side of it..both parties are louder and able to broadcast their opinions.

I knew friends who had good relationships with their step parents but also plenty that hated their step dads. Warranted or not, that hate and disrespect generally stayed in their house. Over the last decade you can see kids broadcasting how much they hate them so as a guy I see that and ask myself why would I want to deal with that? Why would I want that responsibly without the respect that comes with being their bio father? There is so much more to it but I’m actually interested to read the responses here. I’m 40s so I’d love to hear what 30 and younger feel about this.

Expensive-Guitar3609 · 2021-08-29T23:35:18+00:00

Back then society have those men some social status and put them on a position of moral superiority. Also women were more respectful of men in those times and the man was always the head of the house. Children were also more respectful of their pearents, so there is that too.

Today single moms are troubles and men know that, so everytime a guys get with a single mom he gets mocked by his peers. He's bottom of the barrel and all can see it. It comes off as desperate.

DplusLplusKplusM · 2021-08-30T19:50:31+00:00

The trope of the stepdad who only marries a single mom to gain sexual access to her children is another one that wasn't as prevalent in the past. But people generally have become child averse in not even wanting to have kids of their own. So when someone volunteers to not only raise kids but to raise kids he's not biologically related to there'll always be those who can't understand it.

PollyRiki · 2021-08-29T07:04:59+00:00

For every single mother out there, there’s a single father also in the dating game.

revente · 2021-08-29T10:32:10+00:00

Joseph is Jesus's stepfather

Joseph was a cuckold

Crusty_Jizzsock · 2021-08-29T03:47:29+00:00

Not only is there a societal shift on accepting this but there's already been a shift towards accepting open relationships. We've seen feminist outlets promoting the idea of open relationships and passes for casual encounters as birthday presents. It's going to go even further with the next generation of feminists. My prediction is that the next generation of feminists will push for ideas like married women being able to choose who is seeding them, as in selecting men for insemination who aren't their husbands. It'll be seen as a woman's right issue and we will see slogans like 'her body her choice' and 'the man who stepped up' tied into it. Women will discuss being able to have the offspring of some ex or some guy at work and how husbands should accept her kid as his own. the rhetoric will be that it's really his kid if he's raising it.

I'm not saying it's going to be normalized, I'm saying we are going to see a sub culture from the extreme end of the feminist movement and we are going to see articles with this idea floating around and we are going to be reading some stories of men that agreed to let their wives get impregnated by men they chose. Feminism is going to keep pushing the limits of AF/BB.

katiesaysthings · 2021-08-29T04:24:45+00:00

Please don’t confuse the subreddit with real life. Nothing is as black and white as they would have you believe here.

vegasandponies · 2021-08-29T05:23:23+00:00

At some point in the 2010's there seemed to have been a shift in attitudes for those under 30 (maybe under 40 as well), where becoming a stepfather/dating a single mom is now viewed as pathetic and bordering on cuckoldry.

As someone in your 20s, this "shift in attitude" is a shift in the type of content that you have been viewing. You grew up with stepkid/stepparent relationships being all around you and being normal. At some point, you started reading RP type of content. "Cuckoldry" isn't a word that is used often in day-to-day life by normal people in society, and if anything, men getting with women who already have children is more normal now than it used to be. So again...the world hasn't changed in the way you think it has...your view of the world has changed.

wtknight · 2021-08-29T13:26:58+00:00

I don't remember single men marrying single fathers being considered "heroic", and I grew up in the 80s. The idea instead was that men were getting a "bargain" in some way because he was either:

A beta who was now able to attain a woman out of his league because she was less desired by men at her same attraction level. Or,
Older and therefore also getting a bargain by being able to partner with a much younger woman. Or.
A single father himself.

If there was any rhetoric about single fathers being heroic, it was exactly that, just rhetoric and not reflective of the reality that these three types of men were the only ones who wanted to partner for single mothers, and for very rational, non-emotional reasons.

All that has changed now is the rhetoric. It still can be a good deal for a beta to marry a single mother, because he often finds a much hotter woman than he could have otherwise.

Perhaps what has changed, though, is that young single mothers (and men, of course, but this is irrelevant to the discussion) are much more often overweight and less attractive than they used to be. Men therefore feel that partnering with them is much less of a good deal than it used to be. If men don't feel like the juice is worth the squeeze as much as they used to, then of course they will start complaining. But the fact remains that an attractive single mother is not going to have a problem finding either a more beta man, an older man, or single father herself, and men are not going to complain much about it because they either are getting a bargain, or they are in the same position themselves.

2021-08-29T14:54:40+00:00

My views on this kind of mellowed over time.

I am not gonna come out and say all single moms are automatically fuck ups. However, there is a chance the reason she’s a single mom is because she has issues, and if so those issues will rear their head in your relationship.

Plus, like.. kids that arent yours, other parent still in the picture.. those are complications. All relationships are hard work. Let alone when there’s those extra factors to deal with

I think many dudes who date single moms are hoping they’ll be appreciated more or get somewhat better treatment due to their willingness to take all that on.. and of course they’re setting themselves up for disappointment.

It’s not really a fair expectation on the men’s part but it is what it is.

midwesternMD · 2021-08-29T14:59:28+00:00

I think the disdain for single moms by single unencumbered men was always there.

As for a societal shift, my guess: single moms broadcast “my kids come first” on dating apps like Tinder. If we see this enough, we learn to think, “well, you’re not my first choice either- next!” If we think this enough, we reinforce the notion that single mothers are just toxic.

TheHammer987 · 2021-08-29T15:16:12+00:00

In the past, lest say '70s to early 00s, the most likely cause of a man becoming a step dad was divorce. Often he and she were both divorcees. Often both had their own biological children. This had little stigma, as neither had been irresponsible or hypergamy or whatever. divorce was still, at the time, relatively new to acceptance.

Today, lots changed. 1, the single mom thing is significantly less likely to be divorced, as she is to be knocked up due to her own carelessness in behavior.

Tldr; there is a difference between a man and a woman who both have kids and exes getting together, and a woman who laid with Chad so Brad can take care of her.

superlurkage · 2021-08-29T16:01:34+00:00

People are just having kids later

It’s not surprising

In the past, a single woman who had married previously was assumed to come with kids, even if she was under 25

And if she didn’t —— ooo, maybe she’s infertile. Not a good thing

2021-08-29T19:25:29+00:00

A more loose society has a lot of consequences, I guess. Likely the distaste for single mothers have always been there in the male population (I certainly feel it in myself, although I don't go around jammering about it), but were supressed by a larger culture. Raising another man's child really is repuslive on a genetic level, even with societal accolades given for it. Though I have my doubts that single mothers were treated worse in the past, it has always seemed to me a great stigma to bear unless your husband died of no fault of your own or in service of the community, like in war.

TheElusivePeacock · 2021-08-29T19:51:33+00:00

Who cares? I feel the same towards single fathers. I wouldn’t want to date them and I don’t. It’s a preference and everyone has them.

Own-Flatworm4787 · 2021-08-29T23:17:03+00:00

I think you're seriously confused about the treatments of fathers vs mothers. Society tends to be compassionate, sympathetic and adjusts helpful to the single mom. Society has talked about fathers with overwhelming negativity regardless of their parental fitness. Most women refuse to date single fathers and most men do date single women.

Mr-X1 · 2021-08-29T06:18:32+00:00

I'm not asking those here why they wouldn't date a single mom, I am asking what caused this societal shift to occur?

Men are becoming more aware of their self-interest. Partially because of the extreme gynocentrism in the West.

2021-08-29T04:45:51+00:00

Martha Washington’s husband died. It wasn’t like the baby daddy was still around on the weekends lol.

Nihi1986 · 2021-08-29T17:18:10+00:00

It's probably due to the spread of redpilled ideology/mindset and the negative connotations of dating a single mom: You look and feel beta. You are just a provider and she doesn't truly like you. She'd go back to the baby daddy if she could.

This is not necessarily true but it's how it's seen by many people nowadays.

Personally, I work with kids and like kids, I don't blame her entirely for her situation yet there's something which turns me off and it's the idea of that single mom dating and valuing me now but probably not before had we met both being single with no kids. She'd likely reject me in that situation and only date me once she 'needed' someone like me. I want to feel genuinely liked and there are some women who truly like me and don't have children so...

-Ivar-TheBoneless · 2021-08-29T05:43:50+00:00

The secret is that all men that got into a serious relationship with a single mom where settling. At first it wasn't so bad because we all know how difficult chicks are and if you could find one that was decent except that she just happened to have a kid seemed like not such a bad deal.

The problem was that too many men of the last generation settled for single moms. Now females feel entitled that a good man would step up and become a step father no matter what. So now they have no problem with breaking up their families because they expect some beta male will always be there to save them. Now it's like females don't even value men and view them as disposable because they think that's there's always a beta male right around the corner willing to play step father.

Now because of the red pill men are learning that women are not victims, that this is them playing out their sexual imperative. To have a baby with an alpha and then get a beta to raise the baby. The red pill teaches men that they are expected to wait on the sidelines and only get to play the game when the time comes when these single moms need a sucker willing to raise the alphas baby. Basically that they are being used because she wouldn't have given him the time of day before when she wasn't used and wasn't a single mom.

the commonly expressed view of "beta bucks", but these views aren't limited to just men in TRP communities.

This is the red pill spreading. Red pill dudes are spreading it to other communities. I'm old enough to remember what dating was like before the red pill. I remember before when guys got with single moms and thought that she was a victim and if only he would have met her first. Now we know that she would've been just like every other chick if she didn't have the baby. That she is only getting with him now because she needs a sucker to save her.

mohammdvhbzdh · 2021-08-29T06:08:38+00:00

Is there any study or proof? I mean maybe you just feel it has changed, but nit really

Glum_Status94 · 2021-08-29T06:10:51+00:00

dating suck because people want to asshole so men and woman are try new things but i’m not blue or red pilled i hate them to many toxic men and woman are want love but can’t give it so we need to make dating better then before

lady_ven0m · 2021-08-29T10:28:44+00:00

As a single mother, I can understand why someone wouldn’t want to risk seriously dating someone who has kids with someone else. It’s the same reason I’m reluctant to date single fathers. They will always be tied to their ex because of the child. This isn’t an automatic dealbreaker for me anymore but it would take a lot of vetting to make sure that there aren’t still feelings involved and that they have appropriate boundaries with their ex. No one wants to deal with baby mama/baby daddy drama. I don’t think that’s unreasonable.

Liberal_On_Guns · 2021-08-29T06:18:22+00:00

"Look past her past"
Women marrying/trying to marry for the first time after 30
Being nonjudgmental about having children out of wedlock

These are all end results of the sexual revolution, but really came to a head with millenials. Not that you didn't have step-parents before the millennials (you did), but the millennial generation embraced these three dating measures more than any other.

The gist is this: The aversion to single moms that you described, I would call it a counter movement against promiscuity. The Millennials encouraged female promiscuity, even in minors. We accepted female promiscuity, told ourselves that it's not different than men sleeping around, that it's "just sex," that men are insecure if they have a disgust response to roasties, and we even married into it. We have had just one generation that widely embraced female promiscuity, and that one generation is all it took to see what a disaster it caused for marriage. So now we have a counter movement of men saying "No hoes, no kids, not over 30." You even have young men getting into the workforce now who literally will say "No hymen no diamond."

And of course, the internet and social media has provided a counter narrative against feminism. The idea that you should avoid single moms at all costs might be an RP idea now, and it's coming into the mainstream now. But again, just a few decades ago, nobody would think twice if you refused to date a woman with kids out of wedlock. It would've been considered a dodged bullet.

techr0nin · 2021-08-29T09:40:35+00:00

I’m in my late 30s and I don’t remember a time when marrying single moms was ever considered good. That said I agree there wasn’t as much of an active negativity, and I attribute it to two things:

There are more single moms than ever.
There are far less resources available to young men.

That said I think marrying a single mother is acceptable if the following conditions are met:

The woman is far outside your league.
It’s only a single child, preferrably a daughter, and young enough that you will be the real dad.
The bio dad is out of the picture, preferrably dead.
You have plenty of resources to spread around.
This one is the most important: the woman is willing to bear you child, preferrably multiple children. As such her own child will be linked to your own bio kids by blood.

Alternatively, if both partners have their own kids and own sets of resources and are combining families it is okay as well.

Sekina7 · 2021-08-30T01:57:09+00:00

I love these types of posts. Amazing ammunition for women to wake up from Disney and stop having kids all together. Men do not appreciate the almost 100% self sacrificing nature of risking your life and future financial independence to have a child. And as a childfree womanI would NEVER date a man with childfree it divorced men. FAR too much baggage for me .

AreOut · 2021-08-29T08:24:22+00:00

there is a world of difference between preplanned and not preplanned divorce, most women today planned divorce before the wedding

neetykeeno · 2021-08-31T01:42:04+00:00

I don't think there has been a general societal change of opinion. I am in my early fifties, my parents were born in the early 1930s and my grandmother survived well into my teen years and I talked with her and my mother about many things. Taking on a woman or a man with kids has always been seen as less than ideal and there has always been a hierarchy of what is ideal and what isn't at every class level. I mean that's why the Brady Bunch, right? Two equally disadvantaged people and their kids regain their social status and a great deal of the utility in their lives upon marriage and agreeing to share their equally bad problem. Apart their lives would be a tragedy, together their lives are a sitcom.

I think what we are seeing now is a general increase in awareness by middle class young men of issues that stay at home mothers (who can't just try to earn more) and lower class men (similarly constrained by how careers were traditionally structured) have always had to be acutely aware of...that children are resource sucks and a couple of kids who already exist mean less left over for the kids you produce means you probably have fewer kids. And this increased awareness is necessary because of the pressure as the middle class is in essence being squeezed out of existence.

So in essence you can't just marry a single mother because this isn't the nineteen seventies and your wage doesn't stretch that far. And in the grand tradition of blaming women when men can't afford whatever rather than just shrugging and not buying..there is a certain amount of demonization of single mothers happening by a very specific demographic of low SMV middle class young men who used to be able to afford but now can't.

womandatory · 2021-08-29T04:53:23+00:00

Porn. The rise of ‘step mom’ and incest porn made a mockery of those relationships.

Barneysparky · 2021-08-29T02:53:45+00:00

The difference is simply that there is a large group of young men who hated their stepfathers growing up.

Guys from two-parent intact homes, guys who liked their stepfather's don't have these issues, but they are shamed by the guys who do have issues with their stepparents. People don't like being shamed, so there is a shift.

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BioStu · 2021-08-30T15:14:34+00:00

No such thing as immaculate conceptions so Joseph was either the father or it was some rando.

manfrom-nantucket · 2021-08-31T15:20:47+00:00

No fault divorce happened. Today if you encounter a single mother she only exists because she

broke up with the father of her child or had a child with an irresponsible asshole
chose to have the child
is looking for a bail out

This isn't the era of Washington where divorce wasn't a thing, the birth control pill did not exist and women who were single and mothers were widows and not single mothers because they broke up their families.

Title	Societal Shift in Attitudes Towards Becoming a Stepfather/Dating Single Moms in Younger Generations?
Author	Disposition11
Upvotes	36
Comments	326
Date	August 29, 2021 2:41 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/pdn7jb/societal_shift_in_attitudes_towards_becoming_a/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/societal-shift-in-attitudes-towards-becoming-a.1065691 https://theredarchive.com/post/1065691

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