CMV: successful men do care about womens’ careers

babazuki · 2023-09-08T20:33:11+00:00

it’s safe to say their partners aren’t hurting for cash and depending on their bfs/husbands for money.

This is the concept that is important to examine. In order to fully grasp this topic, it needs to be understood that this sort of thought process can never even be considered by a man.

Even when a male reaches formative years, he's told (rightfully) that he needs to be successful in a career to have a family. Men know that they need to work hard or they will be seen as bums or losers and most likely end up alone. It is never a consideration that the man could be dependent on his partner for money, everyone knows how that will end. A man working is absolutely mandatory for a relationship to be successful. Maybe he could take a few months off if his finances are good and his wife won't be under pressure to provide, but he MUST work. There's no other option for him.

I don't even know why you would want it to be true that men care about women's careers. It's a difficult part of life when you know your partner is relying on you to provide. It's not fun. It's worth it, but any rational person would rather have their partner accept them regardless of their earning potential. And that's the privileged position women actually have, I don't know why you would fight it.

Men are told "Get educated and get a good job so you could get a wife and start a family and support them."

Women are told "Get educated and get a good job so you don't have to depend on a man for money." Like you said in your post. That's why women work.

Men and women have completely different motives for working. A woman's job is her choice. Cool, but doesn't really matter to the guy she's after. He will stay with her if he likes the way she looks and likes being around her.

pink-bubbly · 2023-09-08T19:36:20+00:00

Same. In finance as well and totally agree. Money, especially in this economy, greases the emotional wheels for a healthy relationship. Also, there are lots of beautiful women in high paying careers. I don't know what this section is on about pretending that beauty and a good salary are mutually exclusive.

DerayRevan · 2023-09-08T19:19:29+00:00

Care but not attracted it

Which is the entire point of what redpillers say

A woman having a PhD in psychology won't make my dick hard

iGetBuckets3 · 2023-09-08T19:08:25+00:00

A high value man is going to pick a hot barista over an ugly lawyer 10 times out of 10. Assuming equal looks and personality then sure they might choose the lawyer, but a women’s career is so low on the list of priorities that it will rarely ever be a determining factor that moves the needle.

gramcaseceo · 2023-09-08T23:10:04+00:00

Wealthy men you describe earn a high salary yet cannot buy a house or apartment in a metropolitan city without dual income. They are wealthy only by local standards. They are not rich.

You are also conflating wealthy men with being successful in the dating market or having high SMV. Successful men in the dating market can be poor tall men hooked on drugs.

ComfortableOk5003 · 2023-09-08T21:17:40+00:00

All the high value men I personally know don’t care about a woman’s career

NocturnalCoder · 2023-09-08T21:25:27+00:00

Not American/Brit so different numbers but I would say first of all: above pulling a certain income, he doesn't care anymore cause it makes zero difference in his lifestyle. If he has 10M in the bank, he can choose to take his 4 months paternity leave wether his parter makes 0 or 50k a month. When you reach a certain threshold, it really doesn't matter anymore cause you are entirely free. I know, a weird concept to grasp, but that is how it works. People talented (or lucky) enough to reach this at a relatively early age will look very differently at relationships. They don't need that other person to lead a financially independent life and will be able to just pick and choose

Then the career. I am an educated guy in my 40s. I value intelligence. I could easily support a mid-class family with my partner not working (although very uncommon here). With a working partner with median income, we would be upper mid class.

Last woman I dated (38) was a mechanical engineer making of what she could make doing work for an NGO trying to push sustainable energy sources. She was smart, she loved what she did. All good

The one before that was an airline pilot ( 42 at the time) who made more than I did. She is also smart, but miserable cause always tired, always away from home etc causing strains and ultimately part of what broke us up. She got an extra degree in what she was passionate about doing (she got to hate flying) but could not let go of the paycheck that was making her miserable. I cared for her career in the sense that she needed to stop fucking flying and start her couple therapy practice cause the flying was hurting her. 5 years later, she is still flying.

As a final point: you are a spring chicken, and I don't mean this offensive, but at 23, you are in for a couple of surprises. Being career driven is not a bad thing, but check in with yourself and each other from time to time.I have seen those couples you mentioned. Hell, I was one. Tech guy with solliciter. If you fail to become a real power couple meaning that at certain phases in life, one will need to pull his foot of the accelerator, it will go wrong. I have none succeed that didn't master dealing with that. Myself included. (That's just Some completely out of context personal advice)

TL;DR: yes, under a certain income and financial freedom men will care about your career. Above a certain age and/or income, not so much. They care about you being content and happy and making them happy cause they have the rest covered all by themselves.

justanother-eboy · 2023-09-08T20:39:55+00:00

Men still care about their spouses career (I don’t want some OF girl) but women care more about that and how much income their spouse makes

You are just taking one example from your personal experience and base that into your entire worldview 😂

ashleyrose56 · 2023-09-08T19:57:12+00:00

Any man telling you that men don't care about your job or degree has neither.

Zabadoodude · 2023-09-08T19:52:53+00:00

I know 3 guys making >$200k one is married to a parttime elementary school teacher, another is married to a woman that quit her corporate job to raise their 4 kids, and one that is single but always trying to chat up women way out of his league. Some of whom are actual barristas.

TopNYJeweler · 2023-09-08T19:53:38+00:00

OK, but I wonder why women care so much about what successful men care about? Why do they make this non issue so relevant in discussions?

SlowEffective8146 · 2023-09-08T21:31:10+00:00

Successful men will always pick the hottest woman, her career is on the list but way the fuck down.

Attractiveness, personality, submissiveness, femininity will always rank higher than her career.

I do love when women try to tell men what men find attractive though

Mr_Chad_Thunderpenis · 2023-09-08T19:56:16+00:00

A woman's career/money is close to the bottom in the list of priorities. If a guy makes average wage, or is broke, and really wants to have a family, then he might put some emphasis on it out of necessity. You can't raise a family with just 50k. But the more money a man makes, the less he cares about a woman's money. Men prioritize beauty by a significant margin, followed by character and personality. That's it.

timspacewarper · 2023-09-08T20:07:27+00:00

There is this thing in society where women desperately try to tell men that we're the same as them. I think it has something to do with the blank slate theory. Men will never look at a woman's career in the same way she is. It's just not an innate trait for us. I won't go into evolutionary psychology, but men just don't find career as important than women do. The reason why people of similar socioeconomic statuses pair up, is described with assortative mating.

Grand-Inspection2303 · 2023-09-08T22:30:25+00:00

You're confusing correlation with causation. Granted men aren't immune from classism, and this partially explains why they're less likely to view much lower economic classes as marriage prospects. But a big reason for what you see is simply how social circles work. Even if a 1-percenter guy wouldn't mind dating a poor or middle class woman, he's unlikely to meet one in a social setting conducive to dating. Also, a man may want an intellectual match, and someone unable to get more than a minimum wage job, is less likely to be one. That doesn't mean they care about the money, the money just tends to come with the intelligence which they do care about.

Finally, while upper middle class / wealthy men are not likely to marry poor women, I think they're still far more likely to want to date down financially, while women want to date up. You won't see Dr. / gas station attendant pairings, but Dr. / Nurse, or Lawyer / Teacher, etc... type pairings are hardly unheard of, and these are much more likely to have the man as the top earner than the woman.

Like it’s been said many times - the economy isn’t built for single incomes to support an entire household. Especially if you want a comfortable lifestyle, it’s wise for men to want a decent earning partner.

Depends on how you define "comfortable." Obviously, you likely won't be able to keep the same lifestyle if you're supporting someone financially, then if you're not supporting anyone financially. But it's a myth that single income middle class homes are impossible. It just requires having less materialistic values than many Americans have.

BirdMedication · 2023-09-08T23:59:46+00:00

You're drawing the wrong logical conclusions from your data. Just because successful men marry women with college degrees and white collar jobs doesn't mean they care about the career as a first priority. It could very well be that those women met their looks standards first and also happened to be professionals.

Having a college degree isn't rare if you're a woman anyways so I wouldn't take that as evidence of prioritizing a woman's earning potential.

MembershipWooden6160 · 2023-09-09T07:08:22+00:00

OP, come back over here when you're 30+, probably if you break up with your BF and look for a new relationship. Oh, and don't lower your standards then - demand a guy who's your league financially. That way you'll see whether men with well-established careers and great finances will want to start a new relationship with you over a woman who's 10 years younger, especially if they plan to have kids.

catwatchwsmyshame · 2023-09-09T14:40:07+00:00

I'm fairly certain you've posted this before op.

YacubsLadder · 2023-09-08T21:24:09+00:00

The higher a woman's income the more likely she is to divorce.

If you're say a plumber and you marry a hot cashier at a grocery store you know she's working with other people at a grocery store most of her day. It's very unlikely she's going to monkey branch to somebody at work who also makes 30 grand.

If your girl is a secretary at a high-powered law firm that's a different story. She's around people who drive nothing but beamers and Mercedes and you're much more likely to lose her to somebody in her office.

Able-Imagination3695 · 2023-09-08T21:51:22+00:00

It honestly depends on the guy. I've dated, I've been friends with and I've worked amongst serious high earners (also worked in finance for a while) and my takeaway from it? It depends on the man and his overall goals.

Younger high earners will care more about her career because they're in the pursuit of status. They also care a lot about who her family is, and what her daddy can do for him. And this is entirely logical because they are trailblazing their life path and if they can choose a partner who's family ties can greatly improve the trajectory of his life's success, why wouldn't he go after that? It would be stupid not to. When the young man is in his moment of ambitious ascent and is surrounded by educated and high earning women, he will choose amongst them because he's in the hot pursuit of status.

If the man is an older high earner and his status has already been achieved, things change.

It's been my observation and personal dating experience that they are in pursuit of something different with their partners. By this point, they're likely out-earning the young guys but they also have a different definition of what they want in a wife. By 35/40, some of them have been divorced or had a very serious breakup with a high earning, career-oriented woman and are looking for something very different - they're actually looking for someone who can help assist them in their lives and act as a source of love, kindness, nurture and support. Yes, many men in this age group still prefer to date a woman who earns great money, but they are nowhere near as impressed or headstrong in that being a must-have as his female peers in the same dating pool.

My SO, for example, is in his 40s and a high income earner who comes from a really good family. I'm in my mid 30s I don't come from a great legacy family, I don't have an advanced degree, I have a career that I love, I make decent money but it pales in comparison to what he earns. Its illogical for him to impose a financial standard on the woman he wants to date because a) it's unlikely that he's going to meet a woman who earns as much as he does but b) he's not interested in going for someone who is stressed out all the time.

He's a point in his life where he expressed he's looking for support and nurture in the home so that he can focus on his career completely. He's interested in peace, he's interested in a woman who can provide him with support and kindness. He likes the fact that I have a career, but he's told me that if I ever wanted to stop working, I'd have his support. We have genuine things in common, we connect authentically on os much, we can go to metal shows together, we're gamers with each other, and more than anything? We can be ourselves around each other and make each other laugh. I genuinely love the fuck out of him!

When a guy is at that point in his life where he's reached his ambitions, he's reached his status, and he wants peace with someone he finds hot, fun, loving and nurturing - they don't care .

bruhminer · 2023-09-08T20:15:52+00:00

You are assuming these men specifically chose career women over young and attractive women but how do you know that's the case ?

Allow me to propose an alternative explanation, which I think it's much more likely : they couldn't get the attractive young women, as most men can't, so they settled for women who were their peers, that's why they make similar amounts of money.

Most women don't chase guys for money despite what redpillers claim and even if they did, making 200K even though it's a lot it's still not millionaire territory, the women that do chase money go after much richer guys.

Friedrich_Friedson · 2023-09-08T20:10:27+00:00

Ofcourse lol, only idiots don't.

There's nothing high value in have all the burdens on you like an imbecile while your partner does nothing

doggiedoc2004 · 2023-09-08T21:52:58+00:00

Can absolutely confirm. I’m a professional woman and have many colleagues and acquaintances in professional fields. The vast majority of men and women I know with a bachelors or better married in their social class and are doing quite well.

Safinated · 2023-09-08T20:29:38+00:00

But hypergamy!

Icy_Ordinary2025 · 2023-09-08T19:21:39+00:00

Idk I date men who care about my career. I date men who are ambitious because I don't need a Jonah/Joe to try and change me/drag me down because they are insecure/hate themselves.

KongWick · 2023-09-08T21:27:58+00:00

Seems like you think these random people at your job are “high earners” just because they earn like $200K.

That isn’t a ton of money.

And working a W2 job doesn’t build wealth.

You have to have active investments to build wealth.

Those dudes aren’t mega successful.

They’re Joe’s who are above average.

md8716 · 2023-09-09T07:48:00+00:00

Well I make >400k and most of my peers are just married to women who are career driven, women who stay home, or just work regular jobs but don't really make a big fuss about it.

So idk perhaps you don't have as much as wisdom and insight as to how life works as well as you think you do at the ripe old age of 23. Food for thought.

AutoModerator · 2023-09-08T18:54:17+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

AutoModerator · 2023-09-08T18:54:17+00:00

Hi OP,

You've chosen to identify your thread as a CMV. As such you are expected to actively engage in your own thread with a mind open to being changed. PPD has guidelines for what that involves.

OPs author must genuinely hold the position and you must be open to having your view challenged.

An unwillingness to have your view challenged may be inferred from one or several of the following:

Asking few or no genuine questions;

Seeming more interested in arguing or convincing others than understanding opposing views;

Ignoring the main point of a comment, especially to point out some minor inconsistency;

Refusing to make concessions that an alternate view has merit;

Focusing only on the weaker arguments;

Explicit statements of an intent to change the other posters’ minds; or

Only having discussions with users who agree with your position.

Failure to keep to this higher standard (we only apply to CMV OPs) may result in deletion of the whole thread.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

anonymous375555 · 2023-09-08T21:17:00+00:00

It depends how wealthy are we talking about, look for Jeff bezoz for example, your 200 k( which is very respectable) is a drop in a sea for him. So someone like him would not be too concerned with your income.

KayRay1994 · 2023-09-08T22:29:32+00:00

Yes and no - I think its multiple factors, class is a huge part of it, but also where you were economically growing up and how you became successful all play a role.

If you’re successful as a result of being a “hustler” (ie. drop shipping, crypto, nfts - its rare people are successful through those, but it happens occasionally), odds are you don’t care cause seeing that you basically beat the odds at a get rich quick game. Hell, even if you’re successful via a creative venture or media, odds are you don’t particularly care - that is, unless you’re born in wealth, if you’re born in wealth or you get successful in the traditionally established way, you’ll probably want someone who’s within the same social/economic class as you - a 21 year old cashier working for minimum wage probably isn’t a good look socially around these circles, even if she is hot.

That being said, these are generalizations and it is usually dependent on the individual and their values. That also being said, the “men don’t care at all” is also a myth sold by grifters (of any kind, not just pill people) and people who got rich through fast, unusual means.

DecisionPlastic9740 · 2023-09-08T23:00:51+00:00

That's what they're around.

rockerroses · 2023-09-08T23:05:02+00:00

I work in tech. I’ve seen many women in tech in successful relationships so I do not think men mainly care. Men mainly care if you’re a good match.

Now, there are many men who do care about a woman’s career, but these are the insecure types. I had a guy string me along, then the two girlfriends he had after me both were in jobs that made significantly less than ours. This guy was deeply insecure about himself. He told me how he felt the need to act more assertive at work due to his height, and not only that lied on his profile about his height.

For successful women, their careers may be beneficial in filtering out the insecure types.

randomcommentt · 2023-09-08T23:12:33+00:00

I am not saying money doesn't matter, but you are from an environment in which money matters a lot and you probably overestimate the importance of money as a result. Job in finance, friends' family with prestigious careers, and education at a private school. So simply put, your environment will probably judge you if you came home with someone who is unemployed, and money is a status symbol in this life style.

For me: I have a somewhat similar background with a PhD in finance, but I (29M) decided to go into academia. I have been born and raised in an environment that considers work-related ambition to be toxic and harmful to your family/friends quite fast. If I came home with someone who is unemployed and less educated my parents would probably get along better with them than if I came home with an ambitious investment banker who aims to have a comfortable life style according to a 100-200K dual income standard.

TLDR: men/women in general are not a single entity that hold one opinion on income. The boring story is the importance of your partner's income most likely depends on how you are raised, and how your friends and environment are in that aspect.

SoldierExcelsior · 2023-09-08T23:16:59+00:00

Sure when all else is equal if you had to choose between the hot batista and the hot lawyer most will go for the lawyer..

But generally a man has to be 4x as successful as the woman..So to alleviate that pressure we stick with the Barista..

Times are changing though as women rise..and men beta-ize.

Dagenius1 · 2023-09-08T23:30:00+00:00

I guess the simple answer is that men care somewhat about a woman’s career but they care significantly less than women do. Women will freely admit this.

I feel like people keep trying to adjust this concept to avoid stating what I consider to be common sense.

Spent years at a boutique investment firm. The men that worked there dated and married similar and lower levels of career achieving women. The women that worked there didn’t consider men below their educational and financial status

Lol keep in mind the term “dating down” never applies to men..there’s a reason for that.

jay10033 · 2023-09-08T23:45:23+00:00

It's pretty simple: there's a difference in who you want to spend your life with and an idiot and lazy person probably doesn't fit the bill. But importantly, it has nothing to do with your career. Overindexing your career and tying it to your identity as what makes you a good person will come with failure. Being in finance/law/tech or whatever doesn't make you a good partner. The route is simple - be a good kind person first, then your intelligence/career will rank after that. But no one wants to be an asshole or self centered "boss whatever" and no amount of degrees or career path will change that. Women continue to identify with their degrees or careers believing it makes them a catch but they are still assholes. It does nothing for you.

MateriallyDetatched · 2023-09-08T23:49:56+00:00

I've seen homeless men with girlfriends so statusmaxxing only works to attract someone who is primarily attracted to your status while you as an individual come in second at best, especially long-term.

This strategy usually can compensate post-wall men better than post-wall women since men are generally much more sexually stimulated visually, so a woman's status plays a much smaller role in attraction. For women, status can really only benefit MILFs in terms of boosting their attractiveness but it is still much more looks-dependent which makes the margin of error much harder for post-wall women. Furthermore, although both men and women are attracted to youthfulness, it plays a much stronger role in sexual attraction for men and less so for women which is why statusmaxxing can typically benefit men better.

Of course, people generally mix with their own social class, so highly-educated men are typically going to get in relationships with highly-educated women. Blue-collar men are typically going to get in relationships with blue-collar women. It's not that those men "care" about their spouse's career, it's that they were around each other's spaces and network and were attracted to each other.

DopeAFjknotreally · 2023-09-09T01:36:19+00:00

I am in tech sales. Will prob make 200k this year.

I connect much better with women who are career oriented. Especially if they’re in the same industry

James_Cruse · 2023-09-09T01:38:40+00:00

You have things backwards. You think men are picking women who happen to have great jobs/make great money.

That’s not the case: Women are choosing those men with more money than them due to men who have the potential for less money than them were not a consideration for sex or a relationship, mostly.

Additionally, the law of propinquity at work: people who are around other people that are successful or in certain careers or who go to certain schools/universities are around each other very frequently and are therefore more likely to be together.

Many people say that women going to university is less about getting a degree and more about being around potential husband material for many years.

I know so many men and women, in my family and friends, that married a woman they went to university with who’s doing the same degree or overlapping university classes.

The woman often works in that career for a short time following university and marriage to that man, then stops working to have several children while the husband keeps working in the career that they both have a degree in for a decade or more while they have several kids.

Literally a more common scenario than other for married people that I know.

The other is that they are introduced by friends who working together or in the same financial bracket or work together at the same workplace literally.

So, most of this is just the law of proponquity at work.

It’s like famous actors: they can meet and date whoever they want but they end up dating and marrying other actors or people in the industry. Why? They’re around them ALL the time. Law of Propinquity.

100PercentNattyBrah · 2023-09-09T02:18:38+00:00

Again, unless your partner is working a shameful career like sex work or OnlyFans, then a man will date a McDonald's worker, he doesn't care.

tritter211 · 2023-09-09T03:21:25+00:00

I care about women's careers as in must have a job

That's about as much caring I have for women's career.

It must be a good job that's preferably on the working class side (teacher, office work, reliable freelancer or writer, etc) or middle/upper middle class wages (analyst, consultant, corporate sales, scientist, administrators, small business owner, graphics designer, etc)

Jobs I don't prefer from my future partner (but would make exception if the woman is good enough): Nurses, doctors (except optometrist maybe), lawyers, models, middle/upper management, flight attendant, waitress, secretaries, etc.

Jobs I definitely DON'T want from my future partner: OF/Sex worker, hairdressers, bartenders, dancers, actress, theme park workers, etc

AbsolutelyNobody0 · 2023-09-09T04:13:18+00:00

Men 'not caring about a woman's career' is more of a colloquial way of saying that her earnings don't matter when selecting a woman.

Obviously her job will indicate certain things about her which can be useful to read into. OF girls and strippers are obviously whores. Lawyers are disagreeable. The career of choice can be useful to assess who she is as a person, but I can't see why I'd care about it beyond that.

Personally, I would not want the mother of my children to be doing some stupid 40hr/week job. She'll work only until there are kids involved. If she's not up for that, then she's not it.

pending_ending · 2023-09-09T04:18:51+00:00

if a dude genuinely feels threatened or just repulsed that a lady wants to work..dont say it,.....dont say it....dont say it..................

touchgrass

like forreal man and put down the bibles

No_Weather6880 · 2023-09-09T06:17:23+00:00

The opposite is less true.

Odd_Green_3775 · 2023-09-09T06:29:53+00:00

As others have alluded to, it’s not that we don’t care about a woman’s career or earnings. It’s just that it’s not our priority. Youth and looks come first.

_H_a_c_k_e_r_ · 2023-09-09T11:47:49+00:00

Not in my country. Here successful men can afford family with single pay and women's pay is mostly the last factor. In some cases its even seen as a negative because they already earn enough and just need a housewife. And its also one factor why a lot of women leave workforce after marriage.

operatowers · 2023-09-10T00:06:13+00:00

All things equal, a man would care. But it isn't very high on the list of priorities. A good looking woman with a sweet personality who cooks and is affectionate is the ideal for 90%+ of men. A good paying job is the next after those things.

Healthy-Educator-267 · 2023-09-10T22:55:10+00:00

Very successful men tend to be very well educated and want partners who are very well educated. Men from Ivy league schools want to marry women from Ivy league schools.

Title	CMV: successful men do care about womens’ careers
Author	Ill_Inspection5225
Upvotes	59
Comments	282
Date	September 8, 2023 6:54 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/16diu49/cmv_successful_men_do_care_about_womens_careers/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-successful-men-do-care-about-womens-careers.1231316 https://theredarchive.com/post/1231316

Comments