"Both women and men believe that their gender disadvantages them. When so many men feel underappreciated and so many women feel mistreated, it creates a vicious cycle of resentment." → Research

ComfortableJeans · 2025-12-03T22:53:29+00:00

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Throw_r_a_2021 · 2025-12-04T00:20:41+00:00

I don’t believe that we can. If two groups have goals and aims that are diametrically opposed, compromise becomes difficult, if not outright impossible. If one group says “x should be illegal” and the other says “x should be legal” neither side is likely to be satisfied with a compromise solution.

gnomeweb · 2025-12-04T00:03:59+00:00

I don't know, women problem are talked about by every mainstream media. Men problem, on the other hand, are discussed not as often. Even when male problems are discussed, they are only ever discussed from the point of view of how they affect women.

Far_Secret_2710 · 2025-12-03T23:02:06+00:00

For the last 15 years, every western legacy media outlet, institution, streaming etc has centered girls’ comfort.

There was a piece years ago on the suicide rate of men rising, but the angle wasn’t about how to help them, let alone what’s causing it. And since it couldn’t argue that girls’ suicide rates are comparable (they’re not), it focused on how this was affecting women.

‘Men are dying, women most affected.’

A girl’s life isn’t stress-free, but compared to a man’s it’s child’s play. Each side feels they have it worse bc women’s issues are feelings-focused, while men’s are based on cold hard facts.

But I’m giving up trying to reason with girls, it’s counterproductive. Best bet for men is to save themselves and let some bored girl work for his attention. It’s not so bad when you get better at it. But until you figure it out, you’re the designated scapegoat.

Hot_Lack_4868 · 2025-12-04T07:26:21+00:00

Most women are always in some sort of relationship until their 60s. Single women before that aren't very common and those who are single often have fwb and it's easier to be single when you're single by choice and still have your physical needs met.

Independent-Eye7188 · 2025-12-04T00:16:20+00:00

We hear a lot (too much in my opinion) about the men's loneliness epidemic.

Maybe you do, but I sure as fuck don’t. The only time I see it brought up outside of this subreddit is when women on social media want to deride and denigrate it, as though the idea that men can have a uniquely bad time relative to women infuriates them. Always juxtaposed with women scoffing and clutching pearls over some guy telling an OnlyFans whore to stop shilling.

Men are villainized for simply wanting things in 2025, but, and this is the fun part, only when they are incapable of securing the things they want. Want a girlfriend? Awesome! Go get one, stud. But if you fail to find someone you’re compatible with, then dare to have negative emotions about that hole in your life, be prepared to get accused of entitlement. Or, God help you, the dreaded “incel” label.

Imagine if this batshit girl logic was applied to anything else. “I feel bad because my father kicked me out of the house and I have no job.” “Jesus, you aren’t entitled to a parent that loves you or a job, incel.” Low value men are a demographic against which hatred is fully socially condoned. Because humans are naturally tribal and bigoted, and want to signal status against the few lower tier groups they’re still allowed to bully publicly.

And women will never, ever take accountability for how deafeningly silent they are on men’s issues. Men are expected, nay, pressured to be allies to women at every level of their personal and professional lives. Can you imagine the alternative? Women loudly and publicly campaigning on behalf of lonely men? I’ll give you a moment to stop laughing.

How do we shift the narrative focus to address the topic more broadly, presenting both the ‘blue’ and ‘red pill’ perspectives in a balanced way?

The blue pill is losing ground to the red pill with every year. Elsewhere on Reddit, and even on this subreddit just a decade ago, blue pillers were adamant that looks didn’t matter. The fact that they now go “well of course looks matter, what are you, stupid?” is a deceptive reframing of the issue that concedes that the red pill has always been right.

The only actual objection to the red pill is that the red pill is mean. That’s it. There are a few losers on PPD that make a lot of hay about the pill being started by scam artists (which, by the way, is an accusation that can be levied at every social movement in the past century, including liberal darlings like Black Lives Matter). But they’re just stuck in the genetic fallacy and incapable, intellectually, of moving on from their bad thinking. Yes, debate fallacies exist other than ad hominem.

How can we open the conversation about the underlying issue with each group (the blue/red pill) in a way that helps move beyond the polarized positions?

Not possible while women are in the room. Because women will always make the argument about their feelings.

this-is-very · 2025-12-03T23:04:13+00:00

It seems like it's just the perception cause men want to date more while women "retire" from the dating scene.
61 percent of single men said they were looking to date or find a relationship, while only 38 percent of single women said the same

Do women even need to look for a date, since they're still the ones getting approached in most start of relationship scenarios? This poll result doesn't tell us much.

Why do we hear so much about the loneliness epidemic and not so much about what women have to endure?

Can you be more specific? Because I do not get an impression that we do not hear about women's problems. If anything, men's problems are rarely mentioned. And even when they get attention, there are toxic spins on them like "this hurts the economy!" or "this impacts women!"

wtknight · 2025-12-04T00:04:25+00:00

Why do we hear so much about the loneliness epidemic and not so much about what women have to endure?

Probably because women are mostly getting what they want, now, which is more power, more money, and the choice to have a life without men, while men aren't getting what they want (whether they deserve it or not is a different question).

There are still plenty of articles about women suffering from the predations of some men, but this kind of thing is nothing new, while the "male loneliness epidemic" is. Therefore, the latter makes interesting writing for people to read.

AscendingRogue · 2025-12-03T23:47:27+00:00

Here's the thing: women have strong institutional power, money, and momentum talking about their issues. This is a good thing for their more valid concerns. Men are only now gaining similar traction, but it is significantly lesser, is taken less seriously (often mocked and victim-blamed), and is met with resistance from feminism due to either misandry or a zero-sum mentality. Ironic, isn't it?

I grew up in a society full of men recognizing women's issues and taking them seriously. Yes, there were, and still are, large pockets who were dismissive and hostile, but they were the minority and had no real power in the face of the social changes that were happening to benefit women. But now, it seems like when men are trying to do the same thing for ourselves (and yes, I recognize that it has been messy), women are collectively refusing to even listen. There is so little empathy or recognition. Women are so caught up in the problems of having leveled up to the point where their hypergamous nature has left them with fewer men to exploit for resources that their uncaring selfishness is glaring and it has started to result in men harboring resentment. Many men just want to love, but instead, they need to protect themselves from women.

The men who have done the internal work to overcome their primal urges, to have emotional awareness and control, and to have developed socially, are seeing that most women are confusing feeling intense emotions with emotional intelligence. These women are less developed, yet they misuse therapy-related terminology to take the high ground when talking about these things. They turn to one another for support and validation, and this drowns our any men from coming to the table to point out that they need to work on themselves.

Ultimately, men should recognize the unique issues and struggles that women face, but it's so hard to care right now since women are collectively dropping the ball in just even listening and recognizing men's basic humanity. Men are mocked, dismissed, and treated as subhuman because so many women are solely focused on themselves.

YourMrFahrenheit · 2025-12-03T23:04:09+00:00

Hot take here, but there’s a huge number of single men who would make terrible partners. And all the women saying they’re better off single? They would make equally terrible partners. They feel righteous indignation on behalf of the “married single moms,” when realistically those women would be just as likely to be the shlubs they love to deride.

Most people are NOT suited to partnership. It is difficult insofar as it requires decentering yourself, or at least being selfless. And the majority of modern men and the majority of modern women simply don’t have that within them. Society used to push people into that. It doesn’t any more.

So a huge number of women have sought meaning elsewhere. The old life, for better or worse, is gone. It’s not coming back. The version of it that exists in our minds never actually existed outside of advertising. Many women lament what’s lost; they’d want it if it felt accessible. But they accept it for what it is and try to find happiness where they can. The solution to the male loneliness epidemic will not be women. I don’t think it will be other men either. I think it will be finding their own meaning, either via fitness or hobbies or professional growth or community building.

Those men looking for relationships in OP’s study? They’re not gonna get them. The sooner they accept that they aren’t getting what they want, and find some other way to achieve happiness, the better for them.

DzejSiDi · 2025-12-04T00:13:58+00:00

Why do we hear so much about the loneliness epidemic and not so much about what women have to endure?

I hope you're trolling, otherwise... Let's say, it must by hard for you to function in this world with your capabilities.

Men in the western world will win every bidding contest who has it worse. Every time it happens we have quick damage control with "nooo muh gender war bad now, let's stop", and whatever was said is going to be forgoten in 5 minutes and you get back to you "men bad, women most affected" mantra, because you cannot outgrow your me, me, me, me childish egoism. And we don't have enough adults to put you in your place.

But don't worry, we have already existing solutions to end polarisation. Poor women, they need to endure so much wealth transfers, priviliges, extra points/slots in recrutations etc. Fortunately in islam they have sharia laws, so finally women "can't complain" and even fertility ratio is way better. Don't worry, in USA you will have similar models, likely based more on what Doug Wilson proposes.

TopShelfSnipes · 2025-12-04T06:21:11+00:00

IRL the "male loneliness epidemic" is more about how as guys age, their friendships tend to be more activity oriented and less supportive.

On the internet, the "male loneliness epidemic" almost always refers to involuntary celibacy or to guys who are single and want girlfriends or wives. These are two very different isues.

While men and women are generally equally lonely in society, there is a trend of men looking to strangers for validation much more than women do, and comparatively irrelevant stuff like women on dating apps getting more likes and messages being relevant.

None of this has to do with actual clinical rates of depression, suicidal ideation, or other actual consequences of true loneliness...which men are more likely to act on statistically...and men are also more likely to have what we'll call 'comorbidities' for this through things like PTSD from military service (men are more likely to serve) or homelessness (men, especially veterans, are more likely to be homeless).

Women who are romantically lonely tend to express this more to their friends/family members, whereas men who are romantically lonely are much more likely to express this to strangers. Homeless women and veteran women also have issues, and I'm not downplaying them, just identifying the greatest need gaps which often involve psych evals needed that the current soft-on-crime policies in most cities are not getting to, or even if they are, are not mandating the necessary treatment that must be prescribed.

Addressing the topic more broadly across both sexes would address four things, which would be pill agnostic:

The amount of time people spend staring at screens, and why this prevents real connection
The impact everybody having a camera has had on society in making people much more risk averse socially, even on things that are harmless.
Cultural factors around overworking, neighborhood/community (aka things that put people in close proximity to one another in the same social circles vs. today's tendency for friendships to often involve geographic distances that inhibit closer relationships and greater support levels), and political/lifestyle polarization...all of which are things that keep people apart and make it harder to meet people of the opposite sex.
The degradation in quality of life that accompanied mass de-institutionalization of the mentally ill, and how that system might be rebuilt but in a patient-sensitive way as opposed to the abusive complex that used to exist which was shut down when people realized how badly patients were being treated.

MarioWilson122 · 2025-12-04T07:48:08+00:00

Well, the loneliness epidemic is about men struggling in dating, which is something that most women will not struggle to, unless they are very unattractive, which most women aren’t to the point of not having any options available.

So, it isn't something they will complain about as much in the way of men, because they are at least able to get options if they want them. Which is what you highlighted about, in the article, that not as many women are looking for a partner as men.

So, they are struggling mostly because they aren’t interested to begin with. The ones that are don’t like the ones being presented to them. When all they have to do at that point is approach the type they actually want, but they are typically too afraid to do so.

Doesn’t mean they have any disadvantage in this area, that just mean they aren’t willing to date, approach or accept what comes to them. Which are all things that is much easier for them to do, even in regards to approaching, since most men would gladly accept an offer presented from most woman.

gtbreddit1 · 2025-12-03T22:59:38+00:00

Why do we hear so much about the loneliness epidemic and not so much about what women have to endure?

The male "loneliness" epidemic is not really about loneliness. It's about lack of sex and sexual validation from women. It's just not socially acceptable for men to complain about lack of sex, so they use "loneliness" as the nearest substitute.

The reason there is no female equivalent is because almost no women experience a lack of access to sex or sexual validation from men.

TheOneWhoThinketh · 2025-12-03T22:41:57+00:00

Why do we hear so much about the loneliness epidemic and not as much about what women have to endure?

I think this is because "male loneliness epidemic" is mistakenly interpreted only as the result of men's difficulties with dating, when the reality is they are more socially isolated across all relationships. I would argue that the answer to all these questions is that men are not able to freely and comfortably express themselves the way they want to due to their opinions being seen as politically incorrect or even dangerous, and so it is difficult for them to form genuine relationships when they don't know if the person across from them will see their thoughts and feelings as a threat.

Women, on the other hand, don't have as much difficulty expressing their discontent, and generally are okay with more self-censoring in their relationships than men are.

How do we shift the narrative focus to address the topic more broadly, presenting both the 'blue' and 'red pill' perspectives in a balanced way?

By allowing "red pill" concepts to be presented. This sub is doing what it can to allow them to presented in a place that isn't guaranteed to be an echo chamber.

Red pill is just theory. What purpose you use it for will depend on you. Saying that red pill is dangerous because of how men want to use it is like saying the study of quantum physics is dangerous because it is used for producing atomic bombs.

How can we open the conversation about the underlying issue with each group (the blue/red pill) in a way that helps move beyond the polarized positions?

By accepting that humans are not a monolith and being open to controversial opinions, and acknowledging that other people can have separate wants and needs from us that we might not intuitively understand. We have issues with conversation because people narcissistically believe that if they don't understand something it is incorrect, and that if they don't care about something then no one else should either.

RealityCold4693 · 2025-12-04T14:51:57+00:00

We’ve been listening to women’s complaints for about the last 20 years and the only reason we’re even cared about men complaint’s because the Democrats lost them election.

Independent-Mail-227 · 2025-12-04T00:46:43+00:00

We hear a lot (too much in my opinion) about the men's loneliness epidemic. It seems like it's just the perception cause men want to date more while women "retire" from the dating scene.

Simply speaking women DO NOT retire from dating scene, they're just getting sexual validation aways from one source or another

Why do we hear so much about the loneliness epidemic and not so much about what women have to endure?

Because the whole society relies in men, top to bottom. You rely on men to keep social security, to make new inventions and to keep infraestructure running, what you think will happen when those men stop doing those? Most of current invetions today are being made by people almost retiring, what you think will happen when they stop working?

Also feminism make sure that you hear about what women "endure" even when it's proven statiscally and methodically to be a farse.

How do we shift the narrative focus to address the topic more broadly, presenting both the ‘blue’ and ‘red pill’ perspectives in a balanced way?

You can't, blue pill represent the act of putting the hand over their ears singing "lalalala", there's no balance to have because the balance between ignorance and reality is literally wishful thinking what is not a useful position to have.

How can we open the conversation about the underlying issue with each group (the blue/red pill) in a way that helps move beyond the polarized positions?

We can't, simply speaking. Blue pill is by default rethorically dishonest, it can't argue ideas nor make an effort to see anything besides their own narrow vision of what life is, never questioning the result and assuming it exist out of some justice.

Salty-Map-942 · 2025-12-04T08:48:24+00:00

Ngl, but it's pointless to debate what shows up more these days, probably because algorithms are so robust and effective now, we really are seeing a filtered view of things.

Like I genuinely entirely disagree with what you're saying, and feel there's far too much spotlighting on women's issues, not just online, but in society, and almost always using the general population of men as scapegoats with that: rape and consent ads always painting the picture that it's apparently most men who are a threat, and somehow don't know what rape is; gender studies in university almost entirely focuses on the women's pov often to the express detriment of men there too, to the point that it should be called women's studies instead (some are honest enough to call it that); and how much more air time on social media we hear about things like the bear and man debate, that we all have to agree to lest we get gaslit for 'being the reason women choose the bear' simply for disagreeing with such a stupidly simplistic metaphor, whilst the 'mens loneliness epidemic' stuff on social media was nothing more than pejoratively used by women to laugh at in turn.

Nevertheless, I'm not going to pretend women don't have issues either, it entirely depends on topic. Like women do get raped far more than men, face more DV, still expected if in an unsaid way to do more of the home duties and nurturing, often have tougher body expectations put on them by society etc.

But aside from that, what you've said is entirely ironic... You claim there's a vicious cycle, because both genders feel hard done by, and thus are astounded the 'other side' thinks they have a hard time too, whilst doing that exact same thing here by saying you find it astounding that men claim they have issues...

scwizard · 2025-12-04T09:24:01+00:00

I dunno but I've felt like women have been lonlier now for a while.

Men's lonliness is like "there's all these women out there who I'd want to be with, but they don't want to be with me."

Women's lonliness is like "there's so incredibly few men out there that I'd want to be with."

A man's loneliness is solvable because a man has a path to find someone. He can do some self improvement or play the numbers game or do some passport nonsense and there's good hopes he can find someone.

Woman's lonliness isn't really. There's no action that she can take to make men suck less.

gdognoseit · 2025-12-04T00:00:20+00:00

Maybe it's time to look at other cultures with high marriage/birth rates and low divorce rates and ask ourselves what they are doing right that we (in our western hyper individualistic, materialistic, shallow, superficial, social media infested, rife with identitarian conflict, sexual laissez-faire embracing, world) are doing wrong.

NuclearDoctrine · 2025-12-05T21:42:22+00:00

We can point to the singular fact that there's a higher incidence of regret amongst ftm than mtf.

ftm turns an average woman into a scrawny man, case in point.

ftm removes pretty privilege and makes the opposite gender hostile to you, case in point.

If we want to settle the score then just compare the only two groups that have ever lived as both genders, ftm and mtf. It's clear cut that ftm has more regrets and mtf has less regrets.

Scary_Trouble_893 · 2025-12-03T22:38:18+00:00

Why do we hear so much about the loneliness epidemic

It's mostly because there's an entire grifting industry farming very real mental health statistics about men. I never hear any of my normal male friends talking about it.

I only hear it when priviledged grifting essayists strawman about it endlessly to grift in views or when redpillers use it to insult women.

In all honesty,

I mostly hear people complaining about people complaining about it more than I hear people actually complaining about the issue.

And "male mental issues" has been a consistent issue since like forever.

petellapain · 2025-12-03T23:07:27+00:00

Even when given the olive branch of "both sexes suffer", some people of both sexes will still say "but we have it worse and the other sex is trash". There will always be mean and obstinate rage baiters especially in this space

fucksiclepizza · 2025-12-03T22:42:42+00:00

Women just quietly get on with life. Men complain and try to make it everyone else's problem.

RahLyt · 2025-12-04T09:11:25+00:00

I think to begin.. women would have to understand men have inner worlds too. That would be the first step.

Men understand women better because men can project their own emotions onto women. Modern women believe men and them have a different set of emotions lol.

Is not that men are not talking about their issues. Is that women can only filter men's issues throughout their mental/emotional capacity.

If a man says he needs a paternity test to soothe his insecurity what modern women hear, is an attack on them. Because modern women can't think about anything other than themselves lol. And I could give you 10 more examples. This is mostly subconscious, modern women were programmed to see past men.

The fact that you see male issues being talked about more explains exactly what I'm talking about. Women can't see past their emotional bubble.

Remembered Boko Haram? They started killing girls because killing boys were not giving them any attention. When they killed girls the international community finally stepped up. Most people to this day think Boko Haram was a terrorist group that killed only girls. The truth is that they mostly killed boys and kept killing them after.

Men are completely disposable and modern women really claim to not see it? I can easily see how women can be objectified.. for example.

Hefty-Lobster-5513 · 2025-12-04T00:14:52+00:00

The male loneliness epidemic isn’t a real thing. People are more single now than ever, but it doesn’t mean that men are lonely. This is a false narrative pushed by the media trying to claim most men don’t have friends and the single men struggle to make connections with people and men as a whole need to change to meet “women’s standards”. The reality is, the same way women are free to remain single and not be married is the same way men are as well. Some men want to remain single and not date and some want to spend the rest of their lives having casual flings. We are more free as a society to do what we want, which means if we don’t want to be in relationships and date, we don’t have to. The internet has changed a lot about society, but the best part about the internet is the ability to connect with people who share the same interests with you all around the world. We have never been more connected as the human race than now. But they’re over here talking about a male loneliness epidemic 🤣

pau-ki · 2025-12-03T22:43:22+00:00

I don't feel like being a man disadvantages me at all. I'm honestly glad I'm not a woman. Now the legal system... that's different. The legal system advantages women.

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Asleep-Pin-5664 · 2025-12-04T00:16:14+00:00

Couldn’t agree with you more. Both men and women are the least happy they’ve ever been since we’ve been keeping track of it.

The loneliness epidemic is worse for men but it affects women too. I think the media doesn’t want to focus on how women are doing bad for a variety of narrative issues.

Maybe just maybe we are all contributing to the problem. Maybe men and women shouldn’t estrange each other. We should seek to understand and empathize with each other. Sometimes men, as a group are assholes. Sometimes women, as a group, are entitled. Own it and learn from it.

I’m a man and I have had problems with women in the US. When I bring it up I always get blamed by women. Somehow it’s my fault, I’m always on the woman’s side, etc.

Although I haven’t experienced it I’ve seen something similar happen to women.

No one is listening and everyone is talking.

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