how to address gender entitlement?

SmarmyPapsmears · 2022-06-21T18:25:12+00:00

My buddy is like this. When he would get rejected he'd insult the girl. I told him to cut it because it's a bad look.

HazyMemory7 · 2022-06-21T19:18:15+00:00

You don't. Those sorts of things come down to respect and human decency, and have to be instilled in people during their upbringing by their parents and other adult figures in their lives.

MasterTeacher123 · 2022-06-21T16:51:52+00:00

The vast majority of men who get no pussy are not violent and just go about their lives.

TomBerwick1984 · 2022-06-21T20:40:45+00:00

Based on reading James Gilligan and Will Storr;

Men who have a high level of narcissism and perceive themselves to be the most shame-prone, tend to be.

Part of the philosophy of masculinity that I'm guessing emerged when marriage sex before marriage became commonplace, is that a 'real man' is able to have an regular sex. So if a man isn't having regular sex, his status as a man is brought into question.

IME both the 'woke' crowd and 'Alpha bros' shame men who struggle with dating, or don't have regular sex. The 'Woke' crowd call men who speak about dating struggles incels, and the 'Alpha bros' call them betas, losers, or use homophobic slurs. (Though not all Alpha bros are like that, some really seem to want to lift up guys. The Woke crowd IME seem to have a consistent disdain for men who speak about struggles dating.)

One way I think people can help is to stop shaming men for not having regular sex, or for having problems with dating.

AelfredRex · 2022-06-21T18:55:43+00:00

It's not about gender, it's egos. A stable ego can handle not getting everything it wants. It can recognize consent. It understands autonomy, recognizes boundaries. A messed up ego... they end up on true crime documentaries.

Entitlement is a symptom of narcissism, an unstable ego. And we are swimming in narcissists these days.

Philip8000 · 2022-06-21T23:06:57+00:00

Something to keep in mind: there's a distinction between being sad or frustrated that you're not considered attractive versus being it's something you're owed. Far too many can't tell the difference. Given your situation, I can imagine it's lonely not having men attracted to you.

RepresentativeSwan1 · 2022-06-21T17:00:55+00:00

Entitlement doesn't matter.

Even if you truly convinced every single man that he doesn't "deserve" sex, the amount of angry men would remain exactly the same. Because their anger isn't caused by not getting what they think they "deserve", it's caused by simply not getting what they want.

The "entitlement" that men have is front-brain post-hoc rationalization so they can feel justified in their anger. That's not the actual cause of their anger.

Personally I'd wish men would learn (as I have) that it's completely okay to be angry about simply not getting what you want. You dont need to convince yourself that you "deserve" what you want to be angry about not getting it.

I hope more and more men realize this so we can do away with this "entitlement" red herring once and for all.

Kondijote · 2022-06-22T03:16:43+00:00

That’s a gross and malicious generalization. The vast majority of sexless men don’t go around killing people. They feel sad and frustrated about their situation (and you have no right to interfere with their internal feelings), but that doesn’t mean they feel entitled to sex. Otherwise, they would be rapists (and most rapists aren’t “incels”).

Some go as far as killing their wives/exes/girlfriends so that no one else can "have" them. Some say they should be given wives.

You’re mixing apples and oranges. Those are men who have managed to get sex and relationships, so they’re not in the same category as sexless men.

Although it’s true that most violent acts (beatings, homicides, etc) are committed by men, the vast majority of the victims are men as well. Male-to-female violence is the exception, not the rule. Regarding the homicide of romantic partners, this study conducted in 2013 concluded that ”When the proportion of homicides involving jealousy is taken into account, women are just as likely to kill their spouses in a fit of sexual jealousy as are men.”

I'm a 27 year old woman who has never been in a relationship and was last asked out when I was 21.

Therefore, you’re not in the same situation as an unattractive sexless men. You have voluntarily decided to refrain from sex and relationships. I’m still a virgin at 29, but unlike you, I’ve never been asked out in my whole life, even though I have good and cordial relationships with the women I know. In fact, most of the people I interact with on a daily basis are women.

But I don't hold it against other people that they don't find me attractive or that they don't want to date me. I don't feel entitled to love even though I watch popular media like sitcoms, romcoms, etc. where the woman ends up in a relationship or in love.

Good for you, but feminists have been complaining about so-called “beauty standards” for ages. They shame men for their sexual preferences regarding women’s bodies. They do exactly what you accuse men of doing: Instead of improving themselves, they externalize their issues and blame “society”.

I'm awkward and overweight with poor self esteem...but I don't blame others, especially men, for not wanting me. Why are some men the opposite? Why do many externalize rather than internalize?

Despite all your flaws, you can still get bombarded with likes and horny comments if you post naked pictures here on Reddit. Any woman of reproductive age (especially those in their 20s like you) can provoke a visceral sexual response from men just by showing off their bodies. The same is not true in reverse.

SupweemyWeemy · 2022-06-21T16:34:47+00:00

There are women like that as well. Why? Cause they are entitled. You don't address it. You let them fester in their own world.

TheSmallerGambler · 2022-06-21T17:57:45+00:00

Is your question why are some men unbalanced, violent psychopaths?

dysonRing · 2022-06-21T17:15:31+00:00

I was once awkward, overweight with poor self esteem (my 20s) and fixed it, Now I am charmismaxxed, 30% body fat (still flawed lol), and with an ego of a mountain

I just think you are not bitter because you know you are in control, that is the key difference.

John_Oakman · 2022-06-21T17:45:39+00:00

Stop rewarding entitlement with response and any emotion, which they use as forms of validation and legitimacy.

RahLyt · 2022-06-21T21:33:27+00:00

I feel like some women love to use the word entitlement so they can easily dehumanise men.

Any men who reacts badly to a rejection is on the wrong regardless of how it is.

But saying it's because men feel entitlement to women, is so much bullshit.

If I applied to a job and couldn't get it and told them "fuck y'all" no one tell me I felt entitled for the job. They would say I got upset, I didn't get the job.

When every emotion men feel is labeled as an entitlement is just a way to keep demonising men.

Perseus_the_Bold · 2022-06-21T21:38:18+00:00

You first need to demonstrate that it's an entitlement and not a ravenous compulsion and biological urge where all sense of entitlement is actually irrelevant.

The starving man does not feel entitled to food, he couldn't care less for the morality of theft, he is going to take what he needs, he will fight, steal, or even kill if he has to.

I find it hilarious that women so utterly fair to understand this. But it is also understandable. Women do not suffer the same strong urges as men.

For men this is not a question of entitlements or rights or any of those social concepts. It is a pure and raw biological urge and compulsion spurred on by hormones, DNA, and hard wiring in the brain. We lust and desire women the same way a salivating dog would desire a steak if it were starving on the street. We recognize that it is a degrading, and even a debilitating fault in our biological makeup no different than impacted wisdom teeth or our vestigial tailbone. Evolutionary adaptations that served their purpose in their day; but which are now only a nuisance at best or a crippling handicap at their worst.

The way in which we desire women is in fact a handicap. So whenever women call it an entitlement it is just as comical as calling a drug addict, who is blowing all his money, time, and health for the next fix as somehow feeling "entitled" to the drug.

Trust me, the very first thing we all learn as boys is that we are NOT entitled to shit. The second thing we learn is that boys are always wrong, thus we learn the futility or argument and communication. We do not deserve anything unless we pay up front for it. As Christ Rock so succinctly put it: "Only women, children, and dogs are entitled to unconditional love; men are only loved on the condition that they provide something."

some men lash out violently when they do not get women. Some go as far as killing their wives/exes/girlfriends so that no one else can "have" them. Some say they should be given wives.

That is called insanity, only when men lose a grip on reality and self control after years of duress do they snap and do this kind of shit. Your average man is not going to rampage just because Stacy at Starbucks clicked her teeth at him.

As a woman you should count yourself lucky that you do not physically posses these violent urges because the majority of the time men commit suicide rather than rampage. More men die by suicide than by murder, war, and natural disasters combined. In the U.S. alone about 140 men die every day from suicide. Yet somehow women think we are so entitled, so privileged. You're all welcome to switch places with us at any time, that invitation is always on the table.

I don't feel entitled to love

Love is not something one is to be entitled to. It is a psychological need as demonstrated by Harlow's studies. This is the reason it is considered a violation of human rights to put prisoners in solitary confinement and it is classified as a gross form of torture.

beleidigtewurst · 2022-06-21T20:34:45+00:00

Men seem entitled to sex and relationships.

Oh, shut the hell up, this hypocrisy is unbearable.

Nobody is entitled for sex, but curiously, those who point that out "for incels" have a long list of those (guess their gender) who actually are entitled for sex.

“It is a horrible thing to feel unwanted — invisible, inadequate, ineligible for the things that any person might hope for. It is also entirely possible to process a difficult social position with generosity and grace. None of the people I interviewed believed that they were owed the sex that they wished to have. In America, to be poor, or black, or fat, or trans, or Native, or old, or disabled, or undocumented, among other things, is usually to have become acquainted with unwantedness.” — Jia Tolentino —

FFTzzz · 2022-06-21T23:00:46+00:00

You can't . Female entitlement is infinite and never ending,

FinancialElephant · 2022-06-22T01:22:38+00:00

I know lots and lots of fat, "awkward" (as if that matters) women who have husbands and boyfriends. In every case I can think of the men are physically in better shape than the women. Men don't want you because you hate and misunderstand them, not because you are too fat. If you worked on resolving your daddy issues and grew up you would have a chance.

I'm not going to respond to your misandric delusions. You have a unconscious hatred of men and you justify this hatred by dehumanizing all or a significant portion of men as pyschotic monsters. I don't know where you are live, but it is not the real world.

cmchunk · 2022-06-21T16:43:33+00:00

The amount of effort it will take to change your circumstances and achieve success compared to the latter is laughable. That’s why.

smallstarseeker · 2022-06-21T22:10:07+00:00

Women feel entitled to all sorts of shit all the fucking time.

And I address their entitlement by ignoring them.

I suggest you do the same.

hentaipolice · 2022-06-21T22:48:49+00:00

There isn't really a good way to address it. Reading your post and replies makes me think you don't know much about the male experience. In terms of entitlement, of course there's going to be the odd ones here and there that actually do feel entitled to a relationship just by existing. However, I can tell you that a vast majority of men learn from a young age that nothing is given for free and it has to be earned some way.

If you studied hard for an exam and fail it and you're angry, would you say you feel entitled to an A? If you prepped a long time for a job interview but someone else got the job, would you say you feel entitled to the job? Most guys are putting some work into attracting women, so I don't think they feel entitled. It may be the wrong things though, but either way they are putting in some kind of work.

I notice that you would rather be a man, but I'm wondering what you would gain from being a man? If you're awkward and overweight with poor self esteem, what would you gain as a man that's awkward and overweight with poor self esteem?

NecktieNietzsche · 2022-06-21T17:19:46+00:00

Entitlement isn't really the issue. That's some shit women made up that everyone runs with.

LonelyBayesian · 2022-06-21T21:55:27+00:00

In my view, by questioning their beliefs critically. Asking stuff like, are you entitled to have someone attracted to you and with you? Do people even have control over who they're attracted to? Should people be forced to be with you even if they're not attracted to you? Would you want someone to be with you if they don't like you at all?

Also, I believe men should change the way they go about friendships (with any gender), which should include emotional support and talking about feelings.

medugorje123 · 2022-06-22T01:47:27+00:00

In my opinion it comes down to the horrible inequality men and women face, in this situation stemming from the fact that all of the "pressure" culturally on finding a mate is on the male sex. (this has evolutionary explanations). And for men who aren't socially gifted it leaves them frustrated when they cant find a mate, because they try and it does not work. and they feel like the system is rigged against them, ergo they go into antisocial behavior. this same frustration makes polygamous societies very violent(one man on a lot of women, only the gigachadest man) and the rest are left alone, and the secondary biological function becomes obsolete for a lot of men, leading to frustration. the sooner girls start sometimes paying for the check instead of it being on the guy or 50/50 and all that goes along with that the sooner we can forget this horrible system we created for finding love

WOPR-1983 · 2022-06-22T05:22:09+00:00

I'm curious about the mindset that I see online and in person. Men seem entitled to sex and relationships.

WHAT? Really? 99.99% of men know that sex and relationships are earned privileges.

To the extreme, some men lash out violently when they do not get women.

Yes. 0.01% of men. And they have criminal records. For criminal stalking, voyeurism, sexual assault, rape and assault and battery.

Some go as far as killing their wives/exes/girlfriends so that no one else can "have" them. Some say they should be given wives.

Again. Cherry picking ultra rare extremes to believe your false narrative.

I'm awkward and overweight with poor self esteem...but I don't blame others, especially men, for not wanting me.

Sounds like you have a beef with men though.

You know what overweight women have in common with their thinner counterparts? They won't date or fuck overweight men.

More of that "male privilege" the feminists can't shut up about...

I'm pretty much sexually invisible right now and you don't see me shooting up a school just because I have a penis.

AngelCrumb · 2022-06-22T11:36:58+00:00

Society has lost respect for those who remain celibate for whatever reason, in the past, not having sexual relations was seen as 'pure', 'respectable', 'honourable' and people tended to mind their own business in regards to such things.

TodTheRod01 · 2022-06-21T20:45:45+00:00

That's the ONLY entitlement you see.....wow....

jayval90 · 2022-06-21T21:00:53+00:00

It's easy to feel less entitled when you're consistently given a lot of what you want.

These men are lonely. I don't think it's much more difficult to understand than that.

SylvestorTalone · 2022-06-21T18:15:39+00:00

Collective responsibility, but only for hated groups (men, whites).

abaxeron · 2022-06-21T21:56:16+00:00

If you're interested why women don't kill their boyfriends and/or shoot up schools, women are terrible fighters and terrible shooters. And pathologically afraid of pain. Any botched attempt to kill a woman's boyfriend will most likely result in him fighting back.

As for entitlement, it's a true mystery why women don't have it. It's not like they massively support such things as pregnancy termination on demand at the state's expense, free housing, free food, student debt forgiveness, workplace and government quotas for women, and lately, free egg freezing. Hmmm, yeah, why are women not entitled at all, what a mystery/s If you're worried solely about entitlement to sex, I probably can dig you several articles by female "professors of ethics/sociology/psychology" arguing why female and only female pedophiles should be forgiven and let out with clean criminal record. Hell, I remember something along those lines from feminist icon Betty Friedan herself.

badsign12 · 2022-06-21T17:53:39+00:00

The idea of entitlement and the use of the term is overdone. That being said, to some extent a rose by any other name........

There are unhealthy ongoing levels of frustration, anger, and despondency expressed by men here. Frustration is supposed to make it clear that what you're doing isn't working, which then motivates a different approach or a different priority given to the thing you're attempting. Frustration over dating makes sense to me.

Though not in every case, anger about dating often follows frustration that wasn't handled effectively. Stay frustrated long enough and you get pissed. This one is tough because some people won't get what they want, and in some cases they aren't asking for anything outlandish. Or they may get what they want but at 35 or 40 or 45, and those years without mean something. There's a genuine loss there. I can't see anger at the people who aren't interested in them, but I can see anger at having what seems like a realistic dream deflated. Making romance less of a priority sounds good but it's tough to do. I also think often the true emotion is more like sadness, but who wants to admit to that or talk about it?

People become despondent when they can's sustain the intensity needed to hang onto frustration or anger. It's surrender but with nagging reminders of what might have been.

Those emotions are relatable. I think the way to deal with entitlement is to limit the use of the word to the rare occasions when it applies, and then to see the actual emotions people are struggling with.

Hoopy223 · 2022-06-21T18:18:18+00:00

I’ve never met those men in real life. At least no one has ever expressed those views in front of me.

purplish_possum · 2022-06-22T02:02:35+00:00

Thing is if you live in an urban area of a western country you can get dates almost at will despite being overweight. All you need is a bare bones online dating profile. You may choose not to exercise that option but that doesn't mean you don't have it.

Unattractive guys have no such option.

As far as addressing the issue -- all I ask is for people honestly assess the situation.

Mrs_Drgree · 2022-06-21T17:40:11+00:00

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Mrs_Drgree · 2022-06-21T22:16:26+00:00

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-Ivar-TheBoneless · 2022-06-21T19:16:17+00:00

No men don't feel entitled, they just don't want to waste time, money, and energy on someone that isn't going to put out anymore. It's women that feel entitled to used men without giving anything in return.

some men lash out violently when they do not get women. Some go as far as killing their wives/exes/girlfriends so that no one else can "have" them.

This is a small minority of men. They are people with issues in every demographic.

Hour-Palpitation-581 · 2022-06-22T06:12:37+00:00

"Five studies (using U.S. samples) examined whether men’s higher entitlement contributes to a sexual pleasure gap that disadvantages women. Participants indicated that men receive more sexual pleasure from their partners, whereas women provide more pleasure (Study 1a). Participants believed that men have more of a right to experience orgasm in both hook-up and relationship encounters and attributed higher negative affect to the male target than to the female target when the target did not experience an orgasm in a sexual scenario (Study 1b). In concert with the idea that pleasure is a privilege that men are perceived as being more entitled to, participants preferred men’s orgasm when forced to choose between the male and the female partner in an orgasm allocation task (Study 1c) and in an experiment (Study 2). Study 3 examined why people believe that men are more entitled to pleasure than women. Men’s higher sense of entitlement as an obstacle to gender equality in sexuality is discussed." https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/19485506211053564#:~:text=Five%20studies%20(using,and%20in%20an

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Fit-Faithlessness149 · 2022-06-21T22:46:48+00:00

I would claim that gender entitlement exists on both sides. There are just as many women who lash out violently when a relationship ends or if their intended lover rejects them. Because of the way women are raised and their smaller physicality they cannot threaten physical violence but instead use emotional violence. Go on YouTube and look up all the videos of crazy ex-girlfriends trying to break into homes and smash up cars and pretend that they're being abused to get the police to arrest their ex-boyfriend. Not to mention the social assassinations that they attempt amongst friend groups and family members. There are plenty of men just like you such as myself who simply shrug if they are rejected and move on to the next.

ponternal · 2022-06-21T22:54:38+00:00

I think the answer is more testosterone. Testosterone makes your baseline desire for sex way higher and also causes more aggressive behavior. This is why men desire sex more on average and tend to lash out more in general than women.

LarryLooxmax · 2022-06-21T23:18:31+00:00

Men are programmed to lash out violently at the perceived source of their problems. Testosterone has an almost linear correlation to intrusive violent thoughts (as well as shaping your body literally for violence, bigger arms/chest, risk taking, etc)

gardenfan167 · 2022-06-22T02:04:35+00:00

As a man I am more depressed than angry about this whole situation but reality internalizing and externalizing are problematic. Reality is a relationship between external world and internal world. We cannot just blame one or another. Is it the dolphins fault for living in desert or the desert fault for existing. Neither the circumstance of that dolphin is the problem.

AuOvereach · 2022-06-22T04:23:58+00:00

i dont think its that many, its just the loud minority question. consider this, a man who never gets a date, laid , whatever and just suffers in silence isnt going to make for much of a news story, hell very few even know hes burdened at all.

Ostrich_Overall · 2022-06-22T05:29:45+00:00

Why care to address it even...

sunkized · 2022-06-22T05:56:59+00:00

Testosterone

hav1t · 2022-06-22T06:56:53+00:00

drivel

HODL_monk · 2022-06-22T08:54:04+00:00

The thing you find disturbing about men is the bell curve. The bell curve puts most people in the middle (average), and the outliers at the edges. However, for men, the curve is noticeably flatter, so there are more men at the edges of the bell curve. This is both good and bad, in that most CEO's are men, but most homeless people are also men, as are most criminals and most insane people. And yes, this includes violence. Most people, men and women, are in the middle, but you will see noticeably more men at the edges, and that seems to be what you are reacting to. There is nothing to be done about this, since its just the way we men are, and this entitlement you see is just one example of it. If you look online, you are even more likely to deal with the extreme outliers, since they tend to seek attention, and will say the most absurd things to get it. Unfortunately, one of the disadvantages of being a woman is you are judged more on your looks, good or bad, and apparently your looks are not good enough for others. As others have mentioned, as a man you would be judged almost solely on your abilities and deeds, but that also means that as a man, unless your looks are top 10 %, you tend to be ignored entirely, unless you are doing something interesting. This has been my experience as a man. I do not feel entitled to any relationship things, but I have also realized that if I'm not out there on the hunt and trying to improve, my situation will never change, as we have to perform to get anything, monetary or relationship related. This isn't entitlement, this is reality, and men that can't deal with it tend to be those outliers you see on your crime shows.

ForgedYetBroken · 2022-06-22T10:57:20+00:00

'Because reasons' is the comprehensive answer to this question. The detailed one? They are like that for the same reason you are you—the many complex interactions of their environment, their nature, and the people they interact with.

It's not really an answer that will get you anywhere, but it will tell you where you are.

Pilling_it · 2022-06-23T15:57:22+00:00

Men seem entitled to sex and relationships. To the extreme, some men lash out violently when they do not get women.

To success mostly. Those who care lash out because it's a blow to their ego. To be fair, it's moreof a people thing than gender thing.

Some go as far as killing their wives/exes/girlfriends so that no one else can "have" them. Some say they should be given wives.

And I think taking the extremes seen from the net isn't the best way to look at things. Sure, there are sickos in the wild, but it's better to focus on the ones in front of you. Like, in real life.

But I don't hold it against other people that they don't find me attractive or that they don't want to date me.

It's still eating you though, from the way you word it.

I don't feel entitled to love even though I watch popular media like sitcoms, romcoms, etc. where the woman ends up in a relationship or in love.

Again, from how you word it, you know logically it's not a thing, but you'd like for it to be a thing.

I don't relate to other women who get hit on or are dealing with DMs and juggling dates and likes on dating apps. I'm also from a culture that prioritizes marriage.

Don't take ppd or whatever online circle as the reference. These women are likely way more promiscuous than you are yourself by the way.

I'm awkward and overweight with poor self esteem...but I don't blame others, especially men, for not wanting me.

You kind of blame yourself instead, and I see it's geniune in what you ask, which is why I'm being real too. You're not too far off falling down on a rabbit hole with communities that have an hatred of the other sex honestly. And it's definitely eating you more than you care to admit, especially to yourself.

Why are some men the opposite? Why do many externalize rather than internalize?

It can be lots of reasons. I think a good thing to do if you've got poor self esteem is to remind yourself that some don't hate you in particular, they hate women. It's not much, but it helps those who have issues with depression to not take it personally.

Also, you mention you're overweight, and while it has absolutely truth to it, to tell you to just go to the gym and not be fat is stupid. Obviously you should work on it, not only for that, but also for yourself, and your own health.

But know about sports that the hardest thing is not to attain an objective. What you're looking for is a marathon rather than a sprint. The cold science tells you you've got to burn more calories than to eat to help with it. Which mean you've got two axis for that : diet and exercise. The former also absolutely impact your mental health. What you want to achieve is things that can become consistent and realistic for you to get to a virtuous cycle first.

If it's to run for 15 minutes a week, you know what? Do that. As slow as you want. But make a habit out of it. And remember you can only compare yourself to yourself. Didn't meant to make this post that kind of advice, but it'll absolutely impact your success on the long run.

If there's one thing we should forgive and not resent the other sex for, it's shallowness, for we are culprit of the same sin. It's also what will decide that a man will give you 5 minutes or 5 seconds to know your personality. Don't focus on what you can't change either, you won't be able to make anything out of it.

Best of luck, and godspeed.

Title	how to address gender entitlement?
Author	ChancyChancery
Upvotes	60
Comments	307
Date	June 21, 2022 4:28 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/vhhaun/how_to_address_gender_entitlement/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/how-to-address-gender-entitlement.1120574 https://theredarchive.com/post/1120574

Comments

Nobody is entitled for sex, but curiously, those who point that out "for incels" have a long list of those (guess their gender) who actually are entitled for sex.