Truth | PurplePillDebate

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Chemistry

That word irks me a little (have some biomed backgrounds), because people usually mean rapport. The MHC thing on the other hand isn't particularly strong correlation, either. Plenty of people "click" with near-same MHC "chemistry". For instance, there's this weird thing with 3rd-cousin affinity - turns out nature programmed us for "safe incest" too, lol.

Again, if I had listened to the 'nice guys' I know I wouldn't be as in love with the men who felt like they could choose me and I had to obey. I have a 'low n count' at 2 partners and I was literally the woman most of the redpillers were describing as an ideal partner. But I'd rather be single for life than date someone who felt I was so incompetent I'd be unable to function without their love.

In healthy relationship, neither side usually feels it that way, but the behaviors turn out that way anyway. Bias galore, hence why its dangerous to apply any of this stuff personally.

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How red pillers talk about women is very concerning though.

Resentment is a hell of a thing.

Also, why would a woman want to be with a guy who blames all their short comings on them?

I think it's the reverse. They project some short comings onto women because women don't want to be with them, and not the other way around. It's the chicken and egg problem. Also, some of it must be residual feelings of having been burned.

Women have their own insecurities and issues, why would we want to be blamed for how men choose to treat us?

Well, you choose the men you're with, so you are definitely responsible if something goes wrong and there was a better option available (in terms of character), but you chose a different man for superficial reasons.

Also, why would you hold all the perceived shortcomings (like high 'N counts' or putting too little or too much effort into their appearances) of your partner against them if you want a normal, healthy relationship?

I agree, you shouldn't. People are free to have their own preferences, morals and dealbreakers. If you know the person you're trying to go after potentially presents some of the characteristics that are a dealbreaker to you, you don't plow ahead only to later inflict your resentment or hold it against them. You walk away and find someone that's compatible with you, your values, your lifestyle and your expectations. Only then can you have a normal, healthy relationship.

[–]Zombombaby5 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yeah, my husband is amazing and we've been together over 11 years. I never strayed or shied away from telling people about my romantic commitments but men still felt the need to judge me like I was gonna give up my perfectly good boyfriend (bi husband obviously) because they seemed him not good enough for me. Literal nice guys were trying to 'warn' me about my husband.

Literally the man I married has stuck by me through thick and thin, poverty and wealth, sickness and health, etc. But so many 'nice guys' in the 'friend zone' kept trying to get me to ditch him to be with them. All explained how I would deserve whatever happened to me. But that's the same mentality so many redpillers have. If it's not me being an asshole to women then thosr women deserve being treated like shit.

Turns out a marriage people envy and a partnership I can rely on was the result and a fantastic toddler to boot but I had to cut so many toxic guys out of my life who would t shut up about how 'nice' they were while throwing tantrums over my decision.

[–]OddPhilosopher13 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yeah, my husband is amazing and we've been together over 11 years.

Literally the man I married has stuck by me through thick and thin, poverty and wealth, sickness and health, etc.

That's awesome, good for you.

men still felt the need to judge me like I was gonna give up my perfectly good boyfriend (bi husband obviously) because they seemed him not good enough for me. Literal nice guys were trying to 'warn' me about my husband.

But so many 'nice guys' in the 'friend zone' kept trying to get me to ditch him to be with them. All explained how I would deserve whatever happened to me.

Well, it's one thing if you're an unbiased third party, but they definitely weren't unbiased opinionators, since they had their eyes set on you and a vested interest in you leaving your man, so...

But that's the same mentality so many redpillers have. If it's not me being an asshole to women then thosr women deserve being treated like shit.

I disagree. I think it's less in the way of "deserving" it and more in the way of taking responsibility for your choices if and when things turn to shit. In your case, you got a good egg, but how many women do you know of that knowingly and willingly go after the bad boys and then cry and wonder why they got screwed over and 'why can't I find a good guy'? It's more in the sense of, "what did you expect? you had a better option (sometimes a dozen or more of good options) and went with the exciting dangerous one and it predictably backfired".

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Yeah, but who are you to decide who is beneath who? When I met my husband, I was more attractive than him. Then I had massive health problems combined with pregnancy that has made me gain a tonne of weight. I ended up losing most of it and I'm working on the rest but he was genuinely the more attractive one while I was in and out of hospitals and unable to turn my head or lift my arms to comb my own hair. I couldn't out on makeup or wear a bra anymore even due to spinal damage.

People looking at us now would consider us equals but other times people would abjectively say he was beneath me and I was beneath him in the over decade we've been together. I was better off than him and even paid to get him out of debt and he supported me through post secondary. And now I'm getting a massive payout from a lawsuit thats supposed to take care of us for life after 5 years of assessments and legal meetings.

Life isn't about permanence. It's about making sure you're with someone you can trust and depend on.

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The study you link has nothing to do with social construct of beauty, but rather cross culture female insecurity about their looks. This points basically to the opposite of what you are saying, that there is objective beauty and those falling outside the norms of it, know it.

Again, there is social influence on “what is beautiful” but that’s not the whole story. We find, for example, clear skin and youth to be indicators of reproductive viability and health. These markers are preferred for mating.

See Judith Langlois (Langolois, Rogggman, & Reiser-Danner, 1990) for infants and beauty preference.

Standard of Beauty are Consistent across Cultures. (David Buss, Evolutionary Psychology, 4th ed, p149)

“In a third study, Blacks and Whites showed tremendous agreement about which women’s faces were most and least attractive (r=+.94). Consensus has also been found among Chinese, Indian, and English subjects; between South Africans and North Americans; between Black and White Americans; and between Russians, Ache Indians and Americans (Cross & Cross 1971; Jackson, 1992,; Jones, 1996; Morse, Gruzen, & Reid, 1976; Thackeray & Iwawaki, 1979)

A 60 year old woman covered in boils is not ever going to be beautiful by any cultural standards.

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[–]deeredman1991No Pill22 points23 points24 points 5 years ago* (50 children) | Copy Link

"I'm invisible to men because I have short hair"

"Men will fuck anything that moves"

If you're going to play the victim; at least pick a victimization story and stick with it...

It's hilarious because you've got 3 different guys telling you that you're full of shit but because we are the invisible guys you are going to keep spouting your misandrist bullshit. Then when we are bitter and angry enough to work our asses off to get enough muscles and money that you are finally willing to give us a crumb of pussy; you're going to get mad because we don't want you anymore after you ignored us for years. Lol

That's why the Chads don't want you btw. Most Chads used to be incels and remember what it was like to be an unattractive male and won't settle for anything less than perfection now that they are finally getting some attention after months and years of working their asses off. I don't blame them either. They deserve the absolute best for their efforts. If you want a man so bad; either learn to offer something of value other than sex or settle for one of the guys in your friendzone but don't play the victim card because Javier, the only man who you will even acknowledge exists; refuses to settle.

At least you have the option to settle if you don't want to work on yourself, unattractive men don't get to have friends that they can settle for.

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[–]deeredman1991No Pill5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago* (17 children) | Copy Link

1st of all; Shy does not equal incel. Have you ever wondered why guys are crawling over each other to get in your pants, sending you unsolicited dick pics, and sliding into your DMs at 3 in the morning? The answer is; IT'S REALLY FUCKING HARD FOR A GUY TO GET LAID! There is a subset of the male population that it's virtually impossible for and it has nothing to do with putting themselves out there.

2ndly; Very few people make it to the top 10-20% of anything without experiencing enough failure to give them a fear of failure. You don't get that type of drive by living a cushy life. Most of the 17 year old jocks grow up to be fat middle aged men who watch a lot of football and drink too much beer. The "losers" are the ones who get tired of being shoved in the dirt over and over until they do something about it and never look back. Most of the guys above are actors which puts them as theater nerds at 17.

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[–]deeredman1991No Pill4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

And then they still don't get it. She's probably going to be spouting more misandrist propaganda tomorrow because "feelz before realz!"

It's not this sub though. It's society in general. In fact; this sub is probably one of the most likely places where they are going to get called on their bullshit. Lol

If you tried to have a conversation like this on r/funny you would probably get downvoted to oblivion or straight up banned.

EDIT: In fact she is already starting to epiphany phase... Go check out her post in r/selfimprovement yesterday. She is at a stage where she is transitioning into her epiphany phase but she is still heavily brainwashed by the "You're worth it girl!" propaganda that simps and misandrists have been spoon feeding her throughout her late teens and early 20s. Currently she is believing that she is perfect just the way she is but that she is going to have to be "better" than the person she wants to attract but we both know she probably isn't half as good as she thinks she is and it's just the "You're worth it girl!" propaganda talking.

[–]mangolover972 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

[–]deeredman1991No Pill10 points11 points12 points 5 years ago* (18 children) | Copy Link

You have to be blind or stupid to think it's even close to the same. Every fat ugly woman is still going to have at least 2 or 3 beta simp orbiters. I'm not an "average looking guy" but I am an average looking guy, 6 foot, full head of long amazing hair, maybe slightly chubby but definitely not fat, I honestly kind of look like a rock star when I clean up, that's not even taking into account that I'm a bilingual programmer, where are my hordes of sex starved super sluts? Yes, I have absolutely every right to be angry and bitter.

And no, I wasn't angry and bitter yet back when I was paying for OLD services. I became angry and bitter when I figured out that men are judged by a different standard and society doesn't even give a fuck. I blame the desperate men who refuse to give women a cold hard dose of reality in the hopes of one day getting a crumb of pussy. Subconsciously; women know what is going on, which is why they will never fuck those men. You're still doing both of us a disservice by pretending that they deserve the Chad who goes to the gym 3 times a week for her when they can't even watch their caloric intake. You're allowing her to lie to herself which keeps them from either improving or settling. You're giving her permission to buy into the "you're worth it" feminist propaganda with your simping. What have they done to justify being "worth it" exactly?

They are never going to fuck you just because you say nice things about them and defend their interests dude. They would rather have the body builder who beats them twice a week than to "settle" for you and some of them even get off on it. Throwing other men under the bus will get you in the friendzone but it will never get you laid. In fact; it's a detriment to it. They honestly think you get some kind of value just by being allowed to bask in their presence. Lol You're acting like the women who fuck the Chad hoping that he will wife them one day for their loyal devotion to his dick. He's never going to wife them and they are never going to fuck you.

[–]mangolover973 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]MyLadySupporter1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]deeredman1991No Pill0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago* (15 children) | Copy Link

1st of all; I would kill for a fat ugly woman who won't claim me in public but gives me sex on the regular. This is in no way "close". A little attention is infinitely more valuable than 0 attention.

2nd of all; I know lots of average dudes with fat ugly girlfriends/wives who absolutely do claim them in public. I used to be one but I didn't make enough money for her lazy unemployed ass. Lol

3rd; I know fat ugly women in relationships with MULTIPLE male partners who are just happy to have access to her. They don't refuse to claim her in public. That's just misandrist propaganda.

Just go look at the picture of the "average joe" in the op. This is what women consider "average". The OP of the post that you are commenting on refutes your argument.

The "nerd" is a jock with glasses and a chiseled jaw, the skinny boy has solid abs, the chubby bear could probably bench press a buick, the "average" joe looks like a latin God. These are the men that women consider "average" because other men are literally invisible to them. Lol

I'm bitter for being born a strait male who doesn't get female privilege. It has nothing to do with "pretty privilege". Give me access to women in my league and I will shut up. Hell, just give me access to sex with women in my league and I will shut up. Lol Otherwise; I'm going to keep exposing hypergamy because I'm bitter about it. When I finally become a Chad, and I will; I'm going to pump and dump every woman I can over it because that's what they deserve for ignoring and friendzoning the guys in their league. It really is that simple believe it or not.

[–]mangolover971 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

1st of all; I would kill for a fat ugly woman who won't claim me in public but gives me sex on the regular. This is in no way "close". A little attention is infinitely more valuable than 0 attention.

They don’t get sex on the regular. They get sex when the guy can’t cope with his dry spell any longer and the temptation of horniness is more compelling than how much she turns him off. Also no you wouldn’t want that. You wouldn’t get any pleasure out of it and it’d make you feel like shit to just be a piece of meat for someone else’s satisfaction without getting any pleasure out of it yourself.

2nd of all; I know lots of average dudes with fat ugly girlfriends/wives who absolutely do claim them in public. I used to be one but I didn't make enough money for her lazy unemployed ass. Lol

For everyone that does there’s 10 more than don’t and in a lot of those cases where the guy does publicly claim her she used to be skinnier but after age and kids she put on weight that she never lost.

3rd; I know fat ugly women in relationships with MULTIPLE male partners who are just happy to have access to her. They don't refuse to claim her in public. That's just misandrist propaganda.

It’s not misandrist propaganda. It’s the experiences from guys who did it and fat women who have had it happen to them.

Just go look at the picture of the "average joe" in the op. This is what women consider "average". The OP of the post that you are commenting on refutes your argument.

This picture is satire. It’s saying that women find a diverse array of personality types and temperaments attractive, as long as it’s chad it’s not to be taken seriously. None of these men are average looking, that’s the point.

The "nerd" is a jock with glasses and a chiseled jaw, the skinny boy has solid abs, the chubby bear could probably bench press a buick, the "average" joe looks a latin God. These are the men that women consider "average" because other men are literally invisible to them. Lol

Previous comment stands here as well.

I'm bitter for being born a strait male and not getting female privilege. It has nothing to do with "pretty privilege". Give me access to women in my league and I will shut up. Otherwise; I'm going to keep exposing hypergamy because I'm bitter about it. When I finally become a Chad, and I will; I'm going to pump and dump every woman I can over it. It really is that simple believe it or not.

It is pretty privilege. Just like how men accuse women of apex fallacy, men do the same. All women don’t have a sea of orbiters waiting in the wings to wife them up and treat them well.

[–]Flintblood1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]mangolover97-1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Flintblood0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't think real butterfaces are as common as memes suggest. Maybe when women hit middle age and beyond but I rarely see it in real life or on OLD. I dated one woman that was sort of like that 'but her' face was just a nice average most of the time but pleasant when she relaxed and things were heating up. Her body on the other hand was easily an 8 or maybe a 9. So she wasn't really a 'but her' face - her body was just on another level from her face which is not that uncommon.

My comment however was about many women I see on OLD and IRL who have really nice faces but are really overweight. I don't mean just thicc like a Kardashian or Cardi B, but more. Same goes with men I suppose but I see less cultural tropes about men learning to accept their pot bellied no ab having bodies. Men know and many of us struggling to just land an overall 6 on a consistent basis, actually put work into working out and all of our appearance which tells me that SMV men around 6 have to work harder to get there while a female 6 just is a regular non-fat body with a slightly above normal face.

[–][deleted] 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]deeredman1991No Pill1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

I doubt you put as much work into yourself as a Chad. A Chad is in the top 20% of men. Are you in the top 20% of women? Statistically speaking; it's not likely. If so GREAT! Go bag a Chad. If not; the Chad may fuck you, but he's never going to commit and he shouldn't.

Taste is a factor but there is a HUGE difference between a bologna sandwich and filet mignon.

Fillet mignon may not be everyone's taste but if someone is paying upwards of $100 for a meal; they may sample the bologna sandwich or chili cheese dog but they are probably going to at least order the lobster.

"You're perfect just the way you are!" culture and simps have got most women running around thinking they are fillet mingon or lobster when they are actually bologna sandwiches and if you try to give accurate feedback, instead of taking it and doing something about it; misandrists, simps, and white knights will come crawling out of the woodwork to undo all the feedback you just gave and defend m'lady's honor and possibly destroy both of our lives in the process. So the only accurate feedback you're ever going to get is whether or not Chad is willing to put a ring on it and be loyal which can take a lot of time to get unfortunately.

At a certain point you have to ask yourself; what EXACTLY is it going to take to be a 20%er and is it worth it? Most women start asking this around 30 which is when you get the "epiphany phase" and the "beta bucks" scenario. Just make sure that you either work your ass off and bag that Chad or if you fail (and 80% of women do); don't resent the guy who you choose to be your beta bucks because you didn't make the cut. Don't beat yourself up about it, but don't beat your beta husband up for not being the alpha that you wanted either. Based on your comments; you seem like you've got a fuck ton of resentment aimed at men in general already.

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[–]MaxarcThere is nothing outside the text29 points30 points31 points 5 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

If you see enough posts like this it will seriously fry your brain. It's incel propaganda, dude. Beautiful people are more attractive. I know, I know, it sucks, but is it really that big of a deal and really that surprising? Look around you. Take a step out your door. Stop hyper focussing on aesthetics like the mainstream media wants you to and see how people actually behave and what they actually find attractive.

You are the main character of your own movie, stop caring about these side characters. Sure, these men probably have tons of girls that goosh over them, but who the fuck cares. This post says more about toxic, unrealistic beauty standards perpetuated by the media than anything else.

Stop perpetuating this beauty standard. Wake the fuck up. Unplug yourself. People aren't like this. The less we project our insecurities on these people, the less of a grip these standards will have on our lives.

[–]hallucinatronic9 points10 points11 points 5 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

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[–]MaxarcThere is nothing outside the text-1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago* (11 children) | Copy Link

The reason is because beauty standards are partly a social construct, and by pointing it out you add to the solidification of said standard. In today's day and age it's even more the case because of the hyper virality of social standards.

In the 1700's high heels and a more narrow jawline was the beauty standard for men, as depicted in this picture: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5f/Louis_XIV_of_France.jpg/300px-Louis_XIV_of_France.jpg

In the 1700's chubby and a more eccentric face was the beauty standard for women: https://assets.atlasobscura.com/article_images/29299/image.jpg

Right now, the beauty standard for women is to have fair, white skin and be skinny. For men it is the body construct of the Greek statue. The only thing that seems to be constant is the want for bodily and facial symmetry. The reason these standards are here - especially white skin - is due to the cultural hegemony of the west.

We also have a tendency to culturally stretch out the natural differences of our gender binary. What I mean by this is that because men have, on average, broader shoulders and a different facial structure we have a tendency to warp that to an extreme to let it stray further from the female body. We have this tendency to underpin small differences between male and female, and make it bigger by accentuating these differences.

Today we have entered a culture of a hyper version of this stretched out binary (e.g. K-pop, Male models), due to the virality of social media. So it follows that the less we pay attention to these standards, or to celebrities, these standards will open up and less people will be miserable.

It's very interesting to me to have these conversations on this sub, because most people approach this subject from a nature over nurture angle. But often, we intuitively seem to have a hard time grasping that a lot of social constructs aren't part of said nature. This goes for both the specific standards of women, as well as men. It's a world view that creates a lot of resentment and feelings of powerlessness, because it makes you believe that you are fixed in place, that your body is a hand that is dealt to you with a fixed value. But I believe this is far from the case. By changing awareness and behaviour, we can collectively build on an environment with less toxic standards.

[–]hallucinatronic2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]MaxarcThere is nothing outside the text0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Maxarc1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

That's the reason women are so comfortable with imagining that men approaching them in public are predatory. They don't need extra attention because they get to select whatever they want online for free.

What if we flip this hypothesis on it's head for a moment? A 2018 study showed that there is a serious gender disparity in male to female ratio's on pretty much every dating app, Tinder being the worst with a 9 to 1 ratio (source on the bottom of the article - Note that this study is being conducted in the UK.).

With this being said, we can still safely make the claim that men easily outnumber women on dating apps, even if we take studies that are being conducted in a broader pool of participants from different nationalities.

This skews the dating market on apps. There is too much supply of men, and too little supply on women. This gives women market leverage, and thus their value is elevated. It doesn't matter that 50% of people use these apps. The question is if they are functional as compared to finding partners in real life. And the answer to me, is a resounding no. Dating apps are not an accurate portrayal of the real life dating pool.

I can also give you an hypothesis as to why men outnumber women on these apps. It's not because women need it less, or because they easily find people outside of these apps. This wouldn't explain the enormous amounts of thirsty men on these apps. It's because women feel more unsafe meeting up with strangers on the internet.

[–]hallucinatronic1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Maxarc1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You said we can change beauty standards like they are something independent of biology when they are just emergent phenomena of our biological make up.

I never claimed that beauty standards are completely dislodged from biology. If you read my post I even specifically stated that things like symmetry and binary gender characteristics are a biological phenomena. What I claimed was that this binary tends to warp and be stretched out by social constructs. Nobody is denying biology here.

Btw I am East Asian (Hong Konger) and I agree Asian men are just less attractive then Western (Anglo-Saxon, Nordic, German etc) men. Many SJWs will ironically try to deny this fact.

Okay so, this is a taste where a lot of people around the world tend to agree with and I believe you if you say this. But now we need to ask ourselves: is this a social construct? I know it's a scary word for people on this sub, but we have to ask ourselves this question none the less without switching to this "muh SJWs" gut response. Because just like biology, social constructs absolutely exist. Denying them is to deny entire branches of scientific literature.

I definitely recommend reading up on cultural hegemony and neocolonialism to figure out why white people are seen as more attractive all over the world. This isn't inherently a biological thing, but absolutely without a shadow of a doubt, a cultural phenomena. And this is what "SJWs" claim. Not that it isn't true, but that it is constructed and can therefore be changed. There is a ton of peer reviewed papers written about this subject, you can find them on Google scholar if you're interested.

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Title	Truth
Author	YoMamas_azz
Upvotes	445
Comments	457
Date	January 4, 2021 3:59 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/kqbhlw/truth/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/truth.350731 https://theredarchive.com/post/350731

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