Take 1 million single hetero men and 1 million single hetero women in a closed environment. Out the gate no less than 500,000 of those men will try to physically approach or internet-message all 1 million women. Of the 1,000,000 women only 1,000 will approach or message men. Okay no, let's delude ourselves into drugged out fantasyland and say 100,000 women will do this.

So every single woman is being approached or getting messages from 500,000 men. Meanwhile 1/10 men are getting approached or messaged by women.

The law of supply and demand says 100% of all women have too many suitors and will have to weed them out because of time constraints alone. This is before you even get into their preferences in men in terms of looks, height and attitude, etc., which will further distort the supply and demand curve in women's favor.

Now if all men are TRP then they're going for casual sex and no LTRs so they're cycling through those women and each time they do that's multiplying the demand side of the equation so now she's being propositioned in person or online by 500,000 times the number of times each man wants a casual fuck.

This is how TweRP is fucking itself over.

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We were making great progress against misandry right up until the men's rights movement threw in its lot with Trump. Women against feminism was a big and growing thing after Elliot Rodger when the number of Americans who wanted to be called feminists dropped from 20% that year to 18% 2 years later. Then Trump came along and MRAs decided to drink the same haterade that killed the feminism brand and look where we are now, misandry is in vogue again.

It seems (surprise, surprise) when you go with a culture that is based on kicking men in the face you get a backlash against feminism but then when you retaliate by going MAGA and supporting the Pussy Grabber in chief, and support policies that keep women them down, wow, feminism and misandry makes a big fat comeback.

Paul Elam screwed us all. MRAs should have listened to Warren Farrell. Maybe now with Biden in charge leftist men's rights activists can talk with Democrats without the added taint of a war on women's rights.

You want to know how badly MRAs fucked themselves? Hillary Clinton was openly stating she would make Selective Service gender neutral. Democrats had passed a bill to make this happen in the House and Senate. All we had to do was vote for her. But you know how that went, and after Election Day 2016 the Republicans killed the bill. Mind you making Selective Service gender neutral or getting rid of it has been the biggest quest of MRAs for decades and they threw that away because they wanted to get even with women by electing Trump...

[–]Slyfer_Seven2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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Internet misogyny is ubiquitous, far larger, and more violent in number with a much longer history. Why should women tip toe to cuddle male fee fees when men haven't even begun to cut their hateful shit?

Whats good for the goose is good for the gander and thats just me being nice bc I, personally, am all about celebrating awesome men and support making misogynists feel like absolute shit. Good men know they aren't trash and they have a real problem with trash men.

I'll worry about the ONE hashtag yall keep saying is the worst "MenAreTrash" after any one or two of the hot shit with the longer history gets culled. Do something about AMALT, holes, women are children, Feminazi, whores, literally take you pick before you expect us to not call it how we see it. And by the way, these are just the things Reddit has cleared as acceptable towards women online.

I don't understand why we can't say "men are trash" when commenting on yet another philanderer cheating on a pregnant wife or beating her while massive male subs continue to call women whores for posting a dating profile.

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Anytime its an answer they don't like, it must be a "fugly old and fat femcel no one will ever want and will die alone." Insert unorginal spinster cats meme.

I'd LOVE to see a sub where men can keep up with the truth. We tried, the subs got banned even before any real conversations happened. Why? Men being butthurt and literally going out of their way to shut us up.

A few guys here can keep up but for the most part, at least on the manosphere, its men complaining about women, then saying we are evil and lie, then asking us questions, then attacking us and calling us fat and ugly if they don't like the response. And if they really feel inept, they organize to get women muzzled by Admin or mods before reconvening in subs where they announce women are mentally handicapped children or how rape is not that bad.

They can't handle the truth.

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Women's greatest power is making you believe they have none.

Literally all women have to do is show zero sexual interest and let the fractured self esteem of the damaged cannibalize themselves.

Women are extremely machiavellian and underhanded. They had to be in order to subvert the patriarchy and pull the strings in their favor from behind the curtain.

The essense of female power:

"Look like the flower but be the serpent underneath it"

I sometimes feel a little bit impressed when I see a man say this. These powers exist but the kind of men who end up here do not respect it. As such, you're pretty much treated like a frizzy haired preacher shouting on the corner about the end of times. The men will ignore you. So its like hiding in plain sight.

Frankly, the vast majority of women prefer not to go there and hatefulness from the opposite side will sometimes stoke this out of them. Most would rather be wholesome or go unbothered.

Imagine if women abused female powers over the male sex like the male sex abuses it towards us. No matter how many guys cry victim in dank, depressive subs, if the abuse of this was standard like the inverse is, yall would never make it. For as much yall shit on femininity, vulnerability, frailty, and anything to do with women, I hope some have the sense to be grateful that women are not like men.

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Not to mention the fact that the misandry on FDS totally blows out any misogyny TRP or inkwells have to offer

I guess you're just trolling then.

The "misandry" is like a paper cut in comparison to over decade of men showing up strapped up like a mysoginist militia of hate. There are dead female bodies over male rhetoric like this.This is so disingenuous.

Just because yall are super sensitive about well deserved criticism doesn't mean that being refused for a date is somehow worse than that thread by TRP teaching men how to force an abortion when she says no. Men would never make it a day if they received half the hate women do. And for what? We aren't the once abandoning kids, failing everything and blaming, being dangerous, being overbearing.

"Misandry is terrible but also women are the worst because they never tell us how they really feel"

Those women are talking about how they really feel. Why aren't you more upset that so many thousands of women have so much to be upset about

We all had to suck it up. We still do. Men will be fine.

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I wonder what comments are attracting them like flies to **** because the rest of us aren't attracting any sort of responses like this.

And women posting on depression subs are more mentally ill than men who do group fantasies about harming women, taking away their rights, with their occasional loons breaking ranks and actually harming women irl???

K

Of course this is the conclusion that male logic comes to.

Most rational people would disagree but I understand that when some men are being overly sensitive to criticism from the female sex and are out to get them, they use certain tactics. Things like name calling, dehumanizing, and calling them crazy. This all helps justify the extreme, nonsensical bias of the butthurt male mind as it tries to regain its sense of personal control.

Let us get back to framing the act seeking help online as a reason to but women down.

I'll remember to tag you in the next thread where men tell us all once again about how they can't talk about their feelings and about their mental health crisis. You can tell them they are worse than incels yourself.

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FDS is not a femcel sub. The femcel subs which never bothered anybody got banned. You're willfully using the term inappropriately because men on the internet get a kick out of telling women they want to penalize that they are unattractive and tell women who are unattractive that they are delusional. Since I spend copious amounts of time with femcels and since I am a regular participant of FDS, I can assure you the two populations are different. Calling women ugly isn't an argument.

Women being so sick of men's shit that they engage in acts of celebration they find empowering doesn't make them female celibates. Unattractive women suffering obscene loneliness and refuse to play reindeer games with sociopathic men who stick their dicks into anything are femcels.

Now that that is clear, your claim that FDS is as big of an issue as black pill is patently false. 95% of doomer bs vs 5% of women talking back isn't equal. I come here at different times of the day to push back on the loud and wrong male monologues in here and I do it for fun knowing damn well I'll rarely have back up. Why? Because outside of the handful of female regulars here, most women don't bother. It would be amazing if FDS showed up here in equal force and corrected the record but they don't.

If FDS comes up here, it's 9/10 some man bitching about it. Do a quick sub search for the past week or month and do a tally of the comments.

It's always "both sides are the same" with men in a portrait of David and Goliath. It's just not.

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What I always thought Was funny was The women who grow up in shitty neighborhoods with shootings robberies assaults every night are never the ones on social media or writing thinkpieces talking about “Omg being a woman is so scary, I fear for my life every time I go outside, men will never understand the fear.”

It’s the suburban middle class types who the biggest crime in their community the last month was a drunk guy driving into a parked car pushing that nonsense lol.

Stranger danger, especially for women regardless is drastically overstated. Men are more likely to be attacked/killed by strangers at night or any time than women are. When women are hurt or killed it’s overwhelmingly by former or current intimate partners. That’s why you have to pick good partners, people will claim “victim blaming” but it is what it is, adults have to take responsibility for who they choose to date.

Someone said would be cool with women running criminal background checks on potential partners for histories of domestic abuse? Absolutely, I have no problem with that.

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Social Security (i.e. the government pension most workers get) is not split and is considered each party's separate property. All other pensions are considered community property. All community property accumulated during a marriage is basically added up and then split 50/50.

Example: If a divorcing couple has a house worth $350,000 they bought while married, three cars worth a total of $50,000, $100,000 of investments. Those assets are split 50/50. If in addition there are pensions the portion of those accumulated during the marriage are also community property. I was married for 9 years. My ex-wife worked for a California county with a good retirement. I got 4.5 years worth of pension credit (50% of 9 years). The court ordered the pension administrator to basically carve off a portion of her pension and reserve it for me. It's like I'd worked for her county for 4.5 years. How much I actually get per month depends on when I start drawing what is now "my" pension. The longer I wait the more I get. Also, it's based on her highest three years of earnings so when she got promoted last year the value of "my" pension share went up.

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[–]relish5kBlue Pill Woman2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

I watched the Britney Spears documentary and have some thoughts:

It is a very compelling documentary
Poor Britney. #FreeBritney
The FreeBritney protestors are the most altruistic of all protestors. There is no virtue signaling, they have nothing to gain from it. They just really, genuinely, want to help Britney spears - a millionaire pop icon they have never met. It's beautiful.
The media coverage of Britney's sexuality and virginity (or lack thereof) was gross and completely inappropriate. In interviews with legitimate journalists she is asked about directly about her breasts, her sex life, and is attacked for her image. Yes, she was sexy. She was a beautiful teenage girl having a good time and enjoying her success - that shouldn't make her a no-holds-barred target. Watching these clips is what I imagine would happen if some of the guys on this sub were to talk frankly with a beautiful young woman IRL and it is cringey AF.

[–]SmurfESmurfersonVodka Trophy Wife3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I loved that documentary - it was really well done, and really showed the problems with conservatorship

My problem is that we don’t know the whole story. There’s some sort of information missing - she didn’t end up in conservatorship simply because of postpartum depression. Maybe drugs + that. Maybe postpartum psychosis. Maybe something else that isn’t on our radar at all

I know someone who was put in conservatorship (my good friend was the conservator). Listening to him, you wouldn’t think he needed it - but he very, very desperately needed it. If you take every bad stereotype of incels out there (when Sandy Hook happened, I was literally scared it was him), and combine them with the worst mental health-induced lack of self care (he would shit himself because he didn’t want to get up, and I literally saw a tooth fall out of his mouth due to his own negligence) ... That was him

Conservatorship is not something courts grant lightly. There is a massive chunk of information that we’re not privy to

(And to be clear, her dad is very obviously an asshole)

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Yeah but not everyone is equally shitty and someone who knowingly and purposely sets out to spread the cycle of pain for their own amusement would probably be considered by most to be shittier than the average person.

Pain is pain, struggle is struggle. A person who experiences perpetual lonliness could suffer just as much or more than someone who is poor. The lethality has nothing to do with the comparison.

Actually I did fuck up my analogy tho. I should have been more specific by saying its like a kid born to a rich family mocking someone born to a poor family.

The point is when you are blessed in a given trait that is mostly a result of luck, it is wrong to mock someone who was unlucky in that same trait. A trust fund kid didn't earn their wealth nor did the kid born to the poor family do anything to deserve their unfortunate position so it shouldn't be perceived as justified for the rich kid to purposely cause extra pain to the poor one.

Conversely you didn't earn your beauty or the privilege of being born the gender that is the selector. You just got lucky, yet go out of you way to mock those who through no fault of their own weren't born with the same privileges/advantages.

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Most women I’ve encountered in real life don’t even know what Reddit is...

As a 19 y/o who grew up on the Internet (so? normie or maybe not?) with other friends who did too, I knew vaguely of it. The main way I knew of it is Reddit's association (as well as 4chan) with Internet memes and creeps (jk... unless?). ❤️

I only know one man who has it personally (and he doesn't use it frequently) so I don't think it's that popular among young men either, but I'm in this one Discord server for college, and people were asking about professors and whatnot for this semester like 2-3 months ago. Someone suggested to look at the university's Reddit, so I made an account. Then I ended up making a throwaway because I thought it was cool you could make multiple accounts under one email (and each one was anonymous, unlike other social medias).

Decided to stay because I saw that there is literally a sub for everything (like whoa, so much information, and I can just lurk). I'd consider myself a normal person (have friends, can communicate decently/give off a good impression, have a hopeful "future", decent looking, but am conservative in lots of aspects for myself, liberal in my standards for anyone else), but maybe not the American normal because I don't like going out, drinking, having casual sex, etc. and despite being American, hold onto cultural/religious values from the motherland (for ex. in terms of sex), but I thought PPD was cool because there's a lot of different perspectives, especially from older people. Now, there's a burst among young users b/c of the WSB thing.

[–]Workaholiconew3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

CMV: Some men say women have no sex drive, because, from a male perspective, it is so diminutive, a man would not even perceive it as a sex drive, or disregard it as completely insignificant. (which when you consider most women's behavior, it is insignificant in comparison)

Also, men seem to have 2 sexual feelings, a desire for orgasm and a sexual drive. Sexual drive in fact does not stop with masturbation. But gets satisfy the desire for orgasm. Women, seem to have confuse their sexual drive with their desire for orgasm men feel.

What makes me think that way: Lesbian friend said she had high libido all her life, but she never said anything I could identify as a sex drive, just a desire to orgasm. After 5-ish years without any sexual partner at all (she lives in a very conservative part of the nation) she started to talk about what I could recognize as the beginning of a unsatisfied sexual drive. And she said her problems with happiness and productivity stopped almost right after she came back from a ONS she had. i.e. She felt sexual starvation it just took almost ahlf a decade, to get in the levels of what to me would take a week or two.

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I can kind of answer this from experience although it's not quite the same thing as what you're talking about. I'm currently pregnant and I had an operation about a month ago that means I can't have sex for the remaining duration of my pregnancy and for a couple of months after. Altogether about six months. I got this news in my second trimester which if you don't know much about pregnancy is the time when the hormones make a lot of women REALLY horny, which was definitely true for me.

I got this news about a month before I had the operation. During that month, the only reason sex increased was because of the pregnancy hormones making me hornier than my usual baseline, and because my husband was initiating more. The thought that "I won't be having sex for six months after this so I'd better have all the sex I can now" never entered my mind and had no impact on my behavior. If I don't want sex, I don't want sex. The prospect of not being able to have it in the future doesn't make me want it more NOW.

[–]Special-Armadillo-990 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]death_by_1000_cats3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yes I know, but I think I can extrapolate my experience here to what I'd do on a longer timeline. Learning I'd have to go without sex with my husband for six months was no small thing. Moreover, the news did prompt my husband to initiate and ask for sex more, which gives me a clue that men and women see this kind of thing differently.

I definitely wouldn't just "shrug it off," it would be very upsetting knowing I had to go the rest of my life without such a fundamental human experience. But knowing what I know about my sexuality, I don't think it would prompt me to have a ton of sex in the meantime. Because I wouldn't genuinely crave that sex in the moment, and for women sex we don't crave isn't good or satisfying.

I think what you're missing is that women have responsive libidos and there's no getting around that. My understanding of the male libido is that it's kind of a slow, steady hum that's ever-present. The female libido isn't like that. We need to be actively turned on, and if we're not, sex is unpleasant. Women aren't going to have a bunch of unpleasant sex they won't enjoy just because it's the last sex they'll ever have.

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You have to define what "a sex drive" is first.

For me, a sex drive is just that - a drive for sex. It's much like other drives, like the drive for social connection, the drive for hunger, the drive for thirst, etc. It comes from inside, not outside.

To put things into perspective, men have a higher sex drive than women do, much to the point where it looks like women don't have one at all. The average woman has a sex drive similar to a low libido man, which, to me, means that she may or may not experience something like a drive for sex very frequently.

If we describe sex drives like hunger where there's an internal signal in the body saying "I'm hungry. I need food," then a sex drive would be like the body saying "I'm horny. I need sex." This is different from being aroused by someone or seeing something sexual, like porn, and wanting sex because of it.

Some women rarely, if ever, experience the former, but they experience the latter, while a lot of men experience both in varying degrees.

Those women, in my opinion, do not have a sex drive because there is no internal drive for sex being created by their bodies. It's the equivalent of never getting hungry until they see or think about food.

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[–]geyges1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

No clue what you're talking about, so I'm probably just going to say the same thing you said, but in English.

I think its men who confuse the need for companionship with the need for orgasm (or rather don't admit the need for companionship at all, and also probably have lower desire for it).

In women, orgasms are somewhat separate from sex (due to physical constraints of vagina), they value sex as more of an emotional experience than physical pleasure, and is usually the primary reason they (want to) have it.

Sure, women want orgasms, but most of them still enjoy sex without orgasm as long as they feel like they emotionally/intimately bonded with the other person. They often also use it as a tool to get what they want (money/gifts/favors), in which case neither intimacy nor orgasms really matter.

For man, sex without orgasm is a waste of time. And using sex as a tool to achieve some higher goals in life is almost unheard of.

[–]Workaholiconew1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]octocombo0 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

There's a spectrum of sex drives and levels of desire for orgasm. There's also a spectrum of anti-sex drive factors (everything from fear of pregnancy/STDs to fear of slut-shaming to fear of violence), which for most men are fairly minor relative to how high these anti-sex drive factors are in women.

When you add the sex drive to the anti-sex drive and look at the net result, the average is definitely higher for men. But for both men and women there's a spectrum, and the male spectrum overlaps with the female spectrum, i.e., some women have a high sex drive while some men can without much hardship go years with just masturbation (similar to how your lesbian friend was able to handle years without sex).

Definitely there are a lot more men with high net sex drives than women, but it's not a binary thing. Similar to how there are a lot more tall men than tall women, but there are still some women who are over 6' tall. And there are some adult men who are shorter than 5'.

So IMO you are correct that sex drive is distinct from the desire to orgasm and correct that men usually have a higher net sex drive than women do, but it sounds like you're over-generalizing a bit in terms of how big the difference is.

And when you mentioned behavior, it also sounded like you were neglecting to account for the fact that behavior is controlled largely by the net sex drive rather than just the positive sex drive, so there are many women who refuse sex even when their positive sex drive is causing sexual starvation because the anti-sex drive is too strong for them to move past. Whereas it's much less common for a man's anti-sex drive to be so strong that he would refuse sex.

[–]Workaholiconew1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

That is the whole point. The levels of "sex drive" seem extremely different, so much so women cannot comprehend how much larger the sex drive of men is. Nor a man can see whatever a woman feels as sex drive. (orgasm desires, I am not so sure).

What you define as "anti sex drive" is not "anti sex drive" at all to me, they are anti orgasm desire and worries at best, but not something which would change one's sex drive on their own.

There is almost nothing which will significantly affect a man's sex drive (Exceptions being, clinical depression, antidepressants, alcoholism, drug abuse, starvation, and other nasty neurological stuff)... if you are not extremely unhealthy, it is almost a constant. And no, it is not a metaphor. Nor is "sex is a need". You don't become less hungry because of social pressure or because of you know a food is poisoned do you? At best, you are distracted, from your hunger right? Same thing, it is so strong as to be considered one of the strongest, even compared to hunger, sleep and thrist (the names "sexual starvation" and "thrist" were not chose willy nilly). Masturbation in the comparison would be drinking water to alleviate hunger.

Disregarding those with depression, substances abuse or just who "power through the pain". I don't think you understand how useless "masturbating" is. The meme about becoming sad after orgasming?, is not just a meme. It is what happens because we become aware that our sex drive is still there... and because of masturbation, only growing stronger.

Believe me, many hours of daily masturbation will at best keep your happiness levels from going critical. Not everyone have time (or blood potassium) for that. That thing about hermit men masturbating for hours, daily? not a metaphor or exaggeration either.

I think you are underplaying way too much about the differences here, Which I mean, it is understandable, we, men, tend to underplay our sexdrives very, very, very much in order to not be seen as deviants or strangers by women, but the truth is, many men are stopping themselves from doing pretty nasty stuff. I don't think you can understand what "being born to be addicted to sex" means here... Those men who behave extremely sexual? normally they are normal sex drive, but with low self control/inhibitions. Only the drive for survival is comparable in strength. Again, no methaphors. consider Everything I said to the letter.

I don't even understand what the concept of a "negative force on sex drive" means. Outside of some harsh shit like losing a loved one, or taking some hard antidepressant. I mean, we are, cognitive of that... But our bodies simply put, are unaffected in any significant manner... we just... control outselves to not show most of it. The high sex drive women see is what spills over.

[–]octocombo3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I think I might not have explained the "anti-sex drive" well. The anti-sex drive does not reduce the sex drive, but it changes how a person behaves.

Your comment about poisoned food is a good analogy. If you are very hungry and there is food you know is poisoned in front of you, the fact that it's poisoned doesn't make you less hungry. But it does make you less likely to grab the food and scarf it down, and it might make you more likely to try eating just a few bites to see if you can strike a balance between eating enough to manage the worst of your hunger and eating so much that the poison kills you.

In the same way, anti sex drive doesn't reduce sex drive; it just means that people with high anti sex drive may reject sex even when they are suffering/depressed due to lack of sex.

Using myself as an example - my positive sex drive is probably on the high end of normal for a woman, slightly low but pretty close to average for men. I start to get distracted and depressed if I am having sex less than ~2x/week, it gets to the point where I feel painfully empty if I'm having sex less than ~2x/month, and if I go longer than a month without sex I start to feel numb and apathetic about everything except sex. Does this description match with what you think of as sex drive?

Still using myself as an example, the anti-sex drive part of that is that I voluntarily have gone stretches of several months (in one case, over a year) without sex in spite of having a sex drive that made this miserable and knowing that I could get sex. Because the thought of having sex with someone I didn't trust was such a strong, nauseating repulsion that even my sex drive couldn't overcome it. The most concrete example of this was that after one year without sex I thought I was desperate enough to beat my anti-sex drive and brought a guy I found physically attractive but didn't know well back to my place. He was right there with me, and I wanted him, and then as he started to touch me I felt nauseated by the level of anxiety I had and told him to stop touching me. Which he did, and then without taking off the rest of my clothes I gave him a handjob to be polite and sent him on his way. And then proceeded to go back to my usual routine during that sexless period of masturbating for several hours to try unsuccessfully to take the edge off. And crying in frustration with myself.

And now my (male) primary partner wants sex no more than once a week, and that is not enough for me to maintain basic happiness levels, which is why we are poly. He has no reason to downplay how often he wants sex; he knows I want sex more often and that I would be content to be monogamous with him if we could have sex twice a week. He still doesn't want sex more than once a week, and when he's stressed he wants it even less than that. Maybe he's unusual, but I don't think he's a huge anomaly. He just doesn't have as high of a sex drive as I do.

And having a sex drive similar to this isn't unique to me. My female partner wants sex at least once a week, but for reasons related to COVID she had to quarantine for several weeks, and she was just a ball of anxiety and depression by the end of that quarantine period. She had a huge lift in productivity at work the day after we celebrated the end of her quarantine with sex.

I would guess that most young men have a sex drive which requires higher levels of sex to satisfy, but I doubt it's such a large discrepancy. I would be surprised if the majority of men want sex more than 3-4x/week, and I would be very surprised if the majority of men have a drive where they need sex more than once per day to be satisfied.

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New England is the most beautiful part of the entire continent.

Until recently, I was an East Coaster. Have spent many years in NE and have loved it. I think VT is especially beautiful and almost settled down there many years ago. Generally NE is very quaint and gorgeous, but...

It’s nowhere near the most beautiful part of the entire continent.

The lower 48 is huge and varied and the Western half of it is so gloriously grand but delicately intimate in your solitude with it that it takes one’s breath away. When I have travelled back to NE on business the scenery feels analogous to popping a VHS tape in the VCR and watching a movie on a 36” 4:3 tube television after having spent the last 5 years watching UHD streams on a state of the art 60” curved widescreen OLED display. There is no comparison.

[–]CanisLupisAutism1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]death_by_1000_cats2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I love how when you say you hate winter all the winter stans crawl out of the woodwork to tell you actually winter is great and warm climates are terrible. Happens every time. Like there can't possibly exist a person who enjoys the heat and hates the cold.

Anyway. I'm a born and raised Texan and would recommend Texas to anyone. Yoir race won't be an issue unless you move to some podunk town in east Texas or something. I'm in Austin, which is the hot place to move these days, but I find it overrated. I think San Antonio is an underrated gem. Houston is also very nice and very affordable. El Paso is a cool town as well, but you're more isolated out there (which might work for you depending on what you want).

Southern Colorado is nice. Colder winters but not as bad as the northeast.

In the southwest, I've heard good things about Tucson, Flagstaff and Reno. In the southeast, I've heard good things about Savannah and Tampa. New Orleans is a popular place right now too. Personally I have always liked Tulsa and Oklahoma City, but again, the winters in OK can get pretty cold and icy so it depends on just how much you want to avoid that.

[–]passepar2t2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]death_by_1000_cats2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm recommending Texas because the person asked for recommendations and said they hate winter, so Texas might fit the bill. Recommending New England to a person who wants to leave New England because they don't like the cold doesn't make a lot of sense.

I just think it's weird to argue with someone about what kind of weather they like lol. If someone was leaving Texas because they were sick of the heat I wouldn't say "But the heat is great and Texas is awesome, why do you want to go somewhere cold?" I wouldn't recommend Florida or Louisiana or another state that's just as hot as Texas. I would just...take them at their word that they hated the heat, because I can understand why someone would, even if I personally like it.

I get sick of it too because when it gets cold in Texas and I complain people tell me I'll be wishing for winter in July when it's 100 degrees and blah blah blah. No, I won't, because I hate the winter and love the heat. Hot weather people seem capable of understanding that not everyone likes the heat, but cold weather people seem incapable of understanding that some people genuinely hate the cold and prefer hot weather.

Also I'm admittedly salty right now because we're about to have our coldest weather in 80 years and the Austin sub is full of smug northeasterners and Minnesotans circlejerking in our threads about preparing for the cold. You people are annoying.

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I read an article that Utah is removing Black History Month from its academia, so I'm not exactly planning on moving somewhere that's going backward.

Not a great measure of “forward and backward.”

I’ve travelled and lived all over, deep south, NE, mid Atlantic, Midwest, Southwest, an West (inclusive of Utah a lot). I’ve lived in extremely urban places and extremely rural as a black man.

In doing so I’ve found that generally, the more urban and “progressive,” the more actually racist a place is and the more the color of my skin matters relative to to content of my character, and the more conservative and rural the less actually racist and the more the content of my character matters relative to the color of my skin.

In all places people use skin color as an heuristic for character determination and for an assessment of the values of others. In more “progressive” places people are more closed and secretive about doing so and do so less consciously, which makes their judgements far more deeply rooted and far less malleable.

In Utah you will find more white people who will criticize the cultural pathologies of black Americans to your face if you engage them in good faith debate than you will in Massachusetts, but they will also be far more likely to invite you into their homes for dinner to have that debate, far more likely to continue it in good faith, far more likely to listen to your story and be affected by it, far more likely to understand and befriend you as a result, and far more likely to find common ground with you if you are also open and honest and engage in good faith.

The man who will criticize the negative cultural behaviors of my ethnic group to my face in a good faith discussion is the man who truly believes me to be his equal for he expects the same of me as he does himself. The man who pities me, acknowledges my “victimhood,” encourages me to see myself that way, and makes excuses for the negative cultural behaviors of my ethnic group is the man who actually thinks that he is better than me for he expects less of me than he does himself.

After more than half a century navigating American race culture I would advise you to be especially wary of MC, UMC, and wealthy white “progressives.” Their ethic is one of “noblesse oblige” because they actually think they are noble and you are not their equal. They can tend to be motivated by a need to signal virtue, and it has been my experience that those who need to signal virtue do so because they have little.

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Two. One was my husband, after we'd been together two years and had lived together for one and talked about getting married and having kids together, so I was comfortable risking pregnancy with him.

The other was my first boyfriend, because we had been having condom sex for a long time and he was a big baby about it and I felt bad and gave in eventually. He said he was going to pull out, he didn't, I had to take plan B, that shit sucked, and I said never again unless I was really serious about marrying and having kids with the guy.

I was always really paranoid about pregnancy and didn't want to risk it unless I'd been with the guy for a while and trusted him. My ex and husband are the only two who fit that bill, and my ex squandered that trust immediately so I went back to condoms with him.

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[–]athrowaway2832221 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I haven't listened to that, but I've watched lots of mini documentaries about it and learned about psychopathy in a psych class. With attention given to children with psychopathy from a young age (it's kind of scary how effectively some can manipulate), they can be "trained" to pass as neurotypical; though, like you said there's no cure or effective treatment. Not every psychopath is "evil", but every one may have the potential to be. Further, it's a pretty small percentage of the population who are psychopaths. Though, I remember reading somewhere that a the business industry attracts a lot of "dark triad" men, so there may be a higher proportion there. I also think that some people in the medical industry develop a God complex given the nature (especially fields like surgery), phenomenal work that they do aside.

[–]geyges2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]athrowaway2832222 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

"psychopathy" is not a disorder at all.

Psychopaths have differently structured brains. They are unable to feel empathy, I'm pretty sure, even if they tried. Lack of empathy is not natural in human beings. It can develop though (sociopathy). I think most humans on Earth can muster up empathy, if at least for certain people. We would be in a very different place today if lack of empathy, callousness, impulsiveness, greed, and cynicism were more common. The issue is that a lot of people in power/a lot of leaders of major industries show these traits, but the rest of us do call people in power out on "evil" behavior.

I personally don't think vast majority of people can even recognize antisocial tendencies in other.

What do you mean?

ambition

Ambition is seen as positive, but not at the expense of others usually.

greed

Greed is not a positive character trait even today.

[–]geyges1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]athrowaway2832221 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I mean 80 million people voted for Donald Trump. And the 80 million people that voted for the other guy are probably aren't any wiser and would line up behind left wing populist in a second.

That speaks more to herd behavior than Dark Triad traits, I think.

It is extremely easy to manipulate some people over others. His supporters actually think there is nothing wrong with him because they think any beneficial decisions he made as a President matter more than any fucked up things he has said and done. Whatever Trump is doing is working since he accrues tons of supporters that have certain demographics in common (I don't mean race necessarily, I think class and education or lack thereof plays a big part).

Which is a substantial cultural shift in the last 100 years or so.

You think so? I thought ambition was always valued. Tons of people aimed to be doctors, lawyers, engineers, businessmen, astronauts, government workers, and similar high earners that keep society running, as kids. We have always been told to dream big, and I thought that was a concept for a long time (the "American Dream", for example).

intense and selfish desire for something, especially wealth, power, or food.

I don't hear too many people reject wealth or power. Or indulgence in food for that matter. It goes hand in hand with ambition too.

But the "intense and selfish desire" part is what is looked down upon, no? I think of "intense and selfish" meaning harming other people, as selfish people only think about themselves and not anyone else.

Greed is akin to too much ambition.

Funnily enough, do you know what's a commonly expressed thought on Gen Z social media? The desire to literally not work at all (for both genders) and the awareness that humans were not meant to work to the bone. Plenty of zoomers are tired the American hustle mentality and the misconception that hard work will guarantee success and comfortable wages today. Yet, a good number of young people are "hustling" and "grinding" (a high number of people in college, a high number of people educating themselves on the stock market, etc.). Most people get up and do it every morning, pursue a degree and work, but "evilness" in favor of wealth and power is not the general goal. That's also why you see more of a "left wing populist" (sorry, I am not very well versed in political terms yet so I had to Google that but I'm using it as "anti-elitist", "anti-Establishment") mindset among younger people, I think, and more empathy towards people in poverty instead of blaming them solely for their situations.

[–]geyges2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

but "evilness" in favor of wealth and power is not the general goal.

It is the entire fucking goal. We just don't think about it as evil anymore. Are people going into careers because they feel passion for the work they do? No, they just feel passion for the $. Nobody wants to do honest work but everyone wants a LOT money. Thus stock market obsession.

You think so? I thought ambition was always valued.

Let me introduce you to a few old friends of mine:

Shakespeare's (1600):

but yet I could accuse me of such things that it

were better my mother had not borne me: I am very

proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offences at

my beck than I have thoughts to put them in,

William Penn (1700)

Of Ambition: The worst of Distempers; always Craving and Thirsty, Restless and Hated: A perfect Delirium in the Mind: Insufferable in Success, and in Disappointments most Revengeful.

Erich Fromm (1955) speaking about Spinoza

"...But factually greediness, ambition, and so forth are forms of insanity, although usually one does not think of them as 'illness."' These words were written a few hundred years ago; they still hold true, although the defects have been culturally patterned to such an extent now that they are not even generally thought any more to be annoying or contemptible.

50 Cent (2014):

I got that animal (animal ambition)

(Urrhh) I got that animal (animal ambition)

[–]athrowaway2832221 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

because they feel passion for the work they do?

Tons of people are working because they love their jobs (when you're good at something I feel like you tend to like it, that's it for me at least), but yes, just as many are doing it for the money.

No, they just feel passion for the $.

everyone wants a LOT money.

Yeah, I agree. That doesn't mean everyone is resorting to shitting on other people and being intensely selfish for it. Though, I think the obsession with money has a lot to do with the state of our economy. We need a lot of money to live even somewhat comfortable. That is not the issue of common folk as it is for the people in charge. Something has gone very wrong (even pre-pandemic) for the cost of living to be unaffordable for most (hence the turn to government assistance for some). Post-pandemic... well, right now we are in a recession and seeing a huge rise in long-term unemployed people, maybe even the biggest in American history. There are a lot of NEETs right now understandably, many who now don't even want to go back to work or literally can't because of the gap in experience. There are reasons behind the $$ obsession, it's not innate human selfishness, and greed (excess ambition) is still not viewed in a positive light. Many people still want to help those in worse places.

Thank you for the examples. I stand corrected, though this says that the perception of the definition of ambition has changed over time. It seems from those quotes that people have historically equated ambition to greed, but they are not one and the same and people nowadays separate the two.

We still view harm to others in favor of our goals as "evil". It is nothing to be respected.

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(TLDR at the bottom)

Q4M:

Flip a coin 3 times after calling heads or tails.

If all of the coin flips land correctly, you instantly take a 7% loss in your yearly income, and become half as respected as you are now, lose 6 inches of your height and become half as physically strong as you are now.

If 2/3 coin flips land correctly, the previous happens, and handful of times a month you become a victim of street harassment (catcalling, insults etc) by gay men much larger and stronger than you. The harassment doesnt just happen on the street, sometimes its at school or work, maybe your boss, could be a guy you thought was your friend.

If 1/3 flips land correctly all of the previous happen but you also get sexually assaulted (think ass/genital grabbed) by very muscular gay men a handful of times in your lifetime and/or experience an attempted rape as well.

If 0/3 land correctly, all of the previous happen and you get brutally raped by a gay man much stronger than you. Possibly even happening as a child.

Now, no matter which outcome happens, you can make a tinder account, and on your first day you get hundreds of likes and at least a dozen every day after indefinitely.

Out of all those like, at any time you can convert them into matches, and have at least a few dozen girls who are around your level of attractiveness up to 50% more attractive.

Out of those say, 50-75 women you constantly have hitting you up:

50% only want a relationship with you, and only after you court them for weeks or months without sex. They will constantantly proposition you for money either explicitly or implicitly throughout the process. At least half of them will bail after taking you a ride and never fucking. Of the "successful" ones, half of those will deadbedroom you after the initial spark wears off.

40% just want you to buy their onlyfans or for you to give them money for nothing. Half of that will be explicit about it in the first message, or lead you on for a bit until they ask. The other half will actually go on a date or 3 with you before asking, making you believe they werent going to the whole time.

9% are DTF on the first meet. A lot of them are probably going to push for a relationship, and some are going to proposition you for money/to buy their onlyfans. But hey you got laid.

1% are decent enough prospects in all regards and more or less give you what you want on your terms.

Out of all of these groups, the vast majority will lie and mislead you about their intentions, a lot of them slip through the cracks. A lot of them get really fucking upset if you turn their offer down and verbally abuse you, and some even go as far as to stalk you, and theres always the chance she might get her big older brother to come beat your ass or rob you, or at absolute worst, albiet extremely rarely, even break into your house and kill you. You hear on the news a lot of guys getting beat up and robbed on dates, and a lot guys you know have been too. About 3000 times a year in america a spurned woman gets her brother to murder a guy because he broke up with her or didnt buy her onlyfans.

You also have avenues to meet women IRL, and the ratios are similar to above, but decently more forgiving. You can definitely get lucky and find what you want eventually wherever you look, but its going to be a massive slog, although you will probably have lucky periods where hot girls come up and straight up offer to fuck.

Also, most of the times you open your phone, you have a handful of gay guys and really ugly girls sending you sexual pictures or demanding you buy their only fans/demanding sex and leaving you creepy messages on social media or threatening you.

Anyways that took a while to write up and hammer out a lot of the nuances, and I know I missed some, but more or less you can see im trying to make an analogous list of pros and cons of having female smp privelege.

TLDR:

AutoModerator · 2021-02-08T21:00:22+00:00

This weekly thread is designed to be a place for all the funny discussions on PPD. Feel free to post off-topic questions, information, points-of-view, etc......

Would you take the risk and put up with the bs of female SMP privelege for the rewards.

Personally I would. I flipped the coins and got 1/3 correct. I think that would be worth it.

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eh she is quite correct there.

Conservatives give near free reign for hardcore capitalists in their ideological camp, but then get shocked and surprised when the said capitalist corporation censors them.

Like... isn't this what you want? You gave near monopoly powers to certain corporations by enabling the rat race to the bottom and they are going to bite your back when the opinion shifts against you.

The free market with little to no regulations have enabled these companies to hoard most of the market share and they call the shots now. Twitter, Facebook and youtube gave LOTS of leeway to conservatives during Trump administration. Because they don't want to make fuss enforcing their rules against their rule breaking activities.

Now democrats are in power, and they are appeasing to Biden administration to get in on their good side.

Its not like conservatives are suddenly going to call for regulations against here even though they pretend they want it.

[–]NeuroplasticSurgery1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Its not like conservatives are suddenly going to call for regulations against here even though they pretend they want it.

I mean, they are. They've been advocating for the repeal of section 230 protections, which basically exempts social media companies from the liabilities of being a publisher.

Of course these companies have been acting like publishers for some time now by making editorial decisions, and the public is finally starting to see how this level of unchecked control could go very badly.

I'm not saying repealing section 230 is the only change that needs to be made, there's obviously plenty of other regulations that would be smart and probably necessary. If all we did was repeal 230, then these companies would likely just become even more repressive and censorious, while still keeping their stranglehold on internet platforms.

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I wrote this reply to someone. I'll copy it in this reply. It highlights the fallacy that the presence of testosterone is the only difference.

I was into advanced calisthenics in the past and I was tempted to try steroids so I did a little research before and I decided not to and that I'd just join a gym after covid. Point being is that I learned that testosterone isn't the only thing that matters. Men have more androgen receptors than women so we make better use of it, some men have less test than others but put on more muscle because they have more receptors. This is why women who take steroids still never get to the size of Dorian Yates. The androgen receptors are also distributed more densly around our necks and shoulders. Then I read about the the thing that Test metabolises into : it's called DHT (dihydrotestoterone, the most powerful naturally occurring steroid). DHT doesn't build muscle but it is the stuff that causes men to go bald and get hairy. It's also binds to receptors in the brain causing aggression and making our nervous systems fire more than women's. This is why men have quicker reaction times and why men are still stronger than women even when we have an equal amount of muscle of an equivalent woman. Our brains formed in the presence of DHT and test so you can't take away the advantages that they brought just by lowering hormone levels, that's like saying people with gigantism will no longer be gigantic when they manage to lower growth hormone levels.

Women are soft and squishy (we like that) and men are sinewy and hard. Just my thoughts.

[–]SmurfESmurfersonVodka Trophy Wife0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

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I fundamentally don’t understand the people who get their panties in a twist over referring to someone by the pronouns they prefer. It’s literally not worth the time to get all upset and take a stand against it. Just fucking roll with it

Because people don't like to be told what to do. Maybe this is a gender difference, women are more compliant and agreeable. We don't like the emotional blackmail of having to call somebody something we don't believe in; especially when it's a recent Leftist fashion trend. It's like when Galileo said the Earth revolved around the Sun and was made into a social outcast and imprisoned. All he had to do was like and pretend he believed something else.

Refuse to use pronouns and you can lose your job, get smeared across social media.. Why are GenZ so okay with being unable to think outside of what they are expected to believe?

[–]SmurfESmurfersonVodka Trophy Wife0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Maybe this is a gender difference, women are more compliant and agreeable

I know plenty of men who have the same philosophy I do - it doesn’t affect their life at all, so why not just make someone else happy? It costs you nothing, not even time. Just use a different pronoun

Why are Gen Z so okay with being unable to think outside of what they are expected to believe?

You could literally say this about any demographic

We don’t like the emotional blackmail of having to call somebody something we don’t believe it

What emotional blackmail? All you do is signal to other people that you’re an asshole, but I presume you’re ok with that

What I don’t understand is if you know that there will be social repercussions for refusing to call someone by their pronouns, why do you think you’re a victim if you do it anyhow? That has always blown my mind

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Shall we bash Gen Z like a pair of old fucks

I’m in. I can be drunk for this, right? I do have a reputation to uphold (see: my flair)

Biden has been pushing hard to get trans into female sports

I missed that memo. But I’m not ok with that - my sister went to school on a soccer scholarship, and while she’s a ridiculously talented athlete, I don’t think she can hold a candle to bio men

lacrosse and NFL

I don’t follow lacrosse (although, my dad went to a D1 school on a lacrosse scholarship, so maybe I should), but I’m not upset about some random kicker being female

As far as refs and coaches, I don’t care so long as she’s not solely a diversity hire. Women can hang in the sports world - look at Erin Andrews, no one can doubt her understanding of what she’s covering. But, I’m a female football fan (go Bills!) so I do a lot of interacting with other female fans online. My perspective might be skewed by that

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Did you notice every bit of it is you enjoying sex in a relationship?

Really liking sex with someone you're mated with, that you've sexually selected and in a marriage with, is just loving sex.

That is not, however a sex drive.

That's assuming anecdotal stories represent some reality of 3+ billion women. Your marriage having lots of sex isn't relevant to ever woman's experience. And just like high IQ, lesbians, and, homosexuals, those are rarities in the population and doesn't change that most people have average intelligence, and aren't gay.

It just means you're more into sex than they are. Sex may be a spectrum, but it's not a drive. And only liking it for one person who you've chosen because of 15 traits that are important to you isn't a drive. That would just be how women act when all their conditions are met. Conditional sex isn't driven sex.

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Yay your found a dictionary that included a colloquial usage of a phrase to describe horniness.

Why didn’t you answer of my actual points? I don’t care what some online dictionary with user edits thinks.

Feminism is about equality in online dictionaries. Doesn’t make it so.

Women do not go out trying to get laid by hot random men because they don’t have a sex drive. They do not pursue them, ask out 500 vaguely cute men, have PUA techniques for men, because there’s no need.

FDS is entirely based on not having sex and pursuing money with sex being a last resort act.

Female incels don’t exist when women look normal.

Men don’t complain about being ruthlessly pursued by women. They don’t sit around making up rape lies to #MeToo there boss for cash and prizes.

Women do not get married for sex. They get married for safety and resources.

Being horny a few days a month and enjoying sex is not a biological sex drive.

Pretending it is doesn’t make it real. Until you can address all of my points which you ladies continue to be unable to do, just deal with the fact that you don’t have anything of a sex drive like men. When you’re not endlessly complaining about some 6 daring to flirt with you, you’re complaining about how men only seem to date you for sex and they’re fuckboys.

Women don’t have sexual drives. Sometimes they’re horny and really love it when a guy gets them in the mood for sex. It’s really hot. But that’s not a biological sex drive supporting evolutionary processes at all.

[–]thelajestic2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Women do not go out trying to get laid by hot random men because they don’t have a sex drive. They do not pursue them, ask out 500 vaguely cute men,

Just because you've never been approached by a woman seeking sex doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I know plenty men that have been actively approached and picked up in bars by women, and I've done the same to guys. Most men also don't ask out 500 vaguely cute women, only desperate men do that.

Men don’t complain about being ruthlessly pursued by women.

I've seen and heard men complain about this plenty. Workplace harassment from women as well as being annoyed they're being pursued by women they don't find attractive.

Women don’t have sexual drives. Sometimes they’re horny and really love it when a guy gets them in the mood for sex. It’s really hot. But that’s not a biological sex drive supporting evolutionary processes at all.

They have a biological sex drive to procreate, as do men.

[–]NarniaFox1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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Men get raped though, by denying it you're doing a disservice for all male rape survivors, who are silent because society treats them as if they don't exist at all.

I'm not denying it ding dong, I was showing it as an example.

Feminists would be the ones denying men get raped.

If women have a sex drive, then how come they don't act like men?

At best you can claim is that you have a sex drive, but it's less than men, because otherwise you'd act like men. Women are not magical creatures that are some how smarter and in control and all that nonsense and men are snips and snails and puppy dog tails.

You apparently seem to think this, or, perhaps, you aren't knowledgeable about mechanisms is biological evolution or how species with males and females work.

Howabout this, because with all due respect, women get silly about words. Women do not have a biological evolutionary purpose to have a quantity mentality to sex as men do, but females have a qualitative view of mate selection.

There. It should make it better because it sounds like women are better than men, and that's all that's important. Now even equal. better. Which always makes feminists happy.

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You understand that almost no adult man have the concept of "not wanting a woman sexually" in their entire lives... right? I mean, he was old, but that much? I don't think so.

I mean, we don't express it all the time, it would be cringey and dangerous, but our default state would be way worse what women call "sexualy starved", and we end up acting in ways we shouldn't because of that.

I mean, when I was in a relationship, I still was compelled to fuck any other women, I found. and thus, treat them way too well compared to if they were a man. But it was a failure of mine. Of not controlling myself. Never I did anything out of my heart to anybody.

I think it is naive to think that this guy was not your average guy who lost control of himself by mentoring a woman but not enough to lose control of his behavior. He was an old guy after all. That is just that.

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Do you think the point of OLD is to be anti-social?

Yes, to some extent it very much is. The idea is to shop for potential mates from your screen rather than actually having to interact with large groups of people in order to do so. That’s anti-social, and a very poor strategy for men given how women develop attraction.

Also, we aren't all trying to live out in East bumblefuck, or wherever you live.

Thank God. But certainly doesn’t feel like it. We already have far too many of you moving out here since your slave states (and countries) have gone completely retarded with the Covid-19 nonsense, the BLM nonsense, etc. I mean, we don’t mind you coming through to ski for long weekends every now and then or MTB, camp, hike, and go fly fishing during the summers, but we prefer it when you take your asses home on Sunday night.

And I can't imagine the casual sex scene is thriving out in the sticks.

Yeah, casual sex scenes are totally dead in ski resort towns. LOL.

[–][deleted]1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SeemedGood1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Your hatred is practically giddy with all of its seething. Glad you won’t be bringing it here, but will instead be confining it to wherever you prefer to stew.

And I’ve only ever been invited to one Aspen Institute event and it was at the Wye River campus. And yes, it was creepy - very much a Coastal Establishment Elite type thing. I was youngish at the time (in grad school) and made a bit of a point about vehemently disagreeing with their preferred narrative of the topic at hand, so was never invited back.

The classic utopia/dystopia is typically urban and socialist in character - for a reason.

I have neither asserted nor implied that I am “roughing” it in any way in any sort of “wilderness.” On the contrary, I have always maintained that I currently live comfortably in a couple of rural ski towns, and I do so neither as a representative of anyone or as an indication of some fact external to my desire to live in rural ski towns in free states.

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I want to have a David Koresh-esque style cult some day. Still trying to work out the details though. Like pretty much me and a commune of like 10+ women (hopefully more) and we raise my (our) kids together. Some of them are just tasked with staying at the compound all day for child care and housekeeping and others have jobs to support our lifestyle together. Optional but wanted, is having them see me as a prophet type figure. My plan is to reel them in would basically to trick women into falling in love with me, impregnate them, have the child then be like, hey well if you wanna stay with me then come live on this compound, if not, then good luck being a single mother. (Dressed up more nicely of course). Im sure some would say yes, especially after I already had a few to agree to it. Preselection and all that. And if they decide to be single mothers on their own, they wouldnt get much from me, because id purposely not have an income as the other women would be supporting me. So theyd be incentivized to join us.

At first glance you many would think no women would fall for this, but I mean look at how many people fell for Mormonism and Joseph Smith's shit. Same with the Jim Jones etc. There exists women who are lost, abandoned and insecure who will cling to someone who claims to have the answers, takes charge and gives them purpose. Of course id treat them nicely though 😃. Maybe we could get a show on TLC.

Thoughts? Im trying to iron out my plan.

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Why are loneliness and sexlessness viewed as inherently a bad thing.

Because as sexual being and living creatures who are very social, being lonely and not having sex is taken as an indicator that there's something wrong with you. If you're physically attractive, then people assume it's a personality issue. If you're not physically attractive, then people assume it's a personality issue.

Maybe this is the way as a species we combat overpopulation. The earth can't sustain too many people.

No. I think you're confusing cause and effect and acting as though it's some intended cause when it isn't. If the earth can't sustain too many people, then the earth can't sustain too many people. That means that if there are too many people, some of them will die until an equilibrium is reached between species and environment. Thinking that there's some kind of intelligent design incorporated into the species is reaching for some divine/mystical argument to explain nature.

I think the less attractive people should accept dying alone,

Whether they do or not is not for anyone else to decide.

But just cause you exist doesn't mean you should be able to reproduce

This applies to everyone, yet everyone feels entitled all the same.

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Like it or not when shit gets real people look to men to fix it.

I generally agree and I think this has a lot more to do with the fact that men are more assertive/way less complacent usually.

I also think that overall, that is more indicative of leadership quality than anything else. Men have been in leadership positions across the globe for quite some time now; there has obviously been tremendous technological progress, thought I wonder what changes we'd see (positive or negative) if more women were in charge. I don't think competence is reliant on gender, or even associated with a certain gender. Although women have been extremely lacking in leadership up until the past century or so (even then, a minority), female activists have historically had a large hand to play in social reform. Conformity may be influential there, but so is education and action (as in getting things done, which women do).

Only smart competent guys can successfully answer that call.

*people

Dumb hacks take everyone down with them (e.g. Donald Trump).

Yeah, perfect example of incompetence and lack of education (yet an abundance of confidence and assertion).

[–]NeuroplasticSurgery2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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I agree that it's a good thing that talented women face fewer barriers to getting into science and technology careers.

But, considering that 57% of bachelor's degrees in the US were earned by women, the gender disparity in STEM is still salient, and open to interpretation.

The most logical conclusion seems to be that, despite making up the majority of upper-echelon educational attainment, women exhibit markedly less interest in STEM fields than men, with only 21% of engineering majors being women.

There are virtually no institutional limitations on which majors men or women can choose in the US, and a plethora of initiatives to encourage women to level the disparity in STEM. But, in all likelihood, the the gap will never be fully equalized, just due to inherent interest. And I think that this is a truth that liberal societies will have to accept.

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Starting to notice more and more how bluepill can be correct in some instances, but in my fucked up mind I come across this with the totally wrong intent.

A few examples

Bluepill: You should treat women like humans and have female friends even if they dont want to have sex with you

Me: Yeah itd be good to have female friends I dont have sex with for social proof, social capital, ability for them to introduce me to more women, and theres also the chance they might want to eventually fuck because women are weird like that and sometimes develop feelings for guys they talk to that arent showing them interest.

Bluepill: focus on yourself first

Me: If I am on my purpose im going to appear as not desperate, and women hate desperation in men.

Bluepill: Dont get upset at women if they reject you

Me: If a woman rejects me and I appear to take it respectfully in stride and dont blow up on her like I instinctually want to, theres a chance she may actually change her mind after she thinks im a good guy, and at worst I won't take as heavy a hit socially as women tend to talk and conspire and pussy blacklist guys for bad behavior.

Anyways, my point being, instead of instantly rejecting bluepill ideaology out of hand, maybe go back and reexamine some of these things, because usually bluepill ideology and platitudes have a nugget of truth in them you can learn from. And it just goes to show, you can absolutely despise women, learn to hide it, and reverse engineer bluepill tactics in your favor. Women want you to authentically be a "good person" only because it benefits them.

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I have a question to ask you. Would you ever be interested in having a female friend just because you genuinely enjoy her company/friendship?

It would be hard for that to be possible for me, I would have to be 100% unattracted to her and feel like I never could be, and would want to have a reasonable feeling that she would feel the same way. She would also have to share the same interests as me and be interesting and actually worth having as a friend. And I think that is extremely unlikely to have all of those qualities, and the chance is so low I basically would not want to expend extra effort trying to cultivate a friendship with a woman and would rather just look for friendships with men, or ones with women that would actively benefit me.

Ive had really bad experiences with having female friends because one way or another they usually end up not being platonic and that ends up ruining them.

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https://jme.bmj.com/content/46/1/3?...ampaign=jme&utm_content=toc&utm_term=15012020

2020 study

Reports often suggest that the cortex and intact thalamocortical tracts are necessary for pain experience. Given that the cortex only becomes functional and the tracts only develop after 24 weeks, many reports rule out fetal pain until the final trimester.

Here, more recent evidence calling into question the necessity of the cortex for pain and demonstrating functional thalamic connectivity into the subplate is used to argue that the neuroscience cannot definitively rule out fetal pain before 24 weeks

Let me highlight that part at the end again:

the neuroscience cannot definitively rule out fetal pain before 24 weeks

The fact that we’re not fucking sure whether or not they can feel pain should be enough reason to outlaw convenience abortions and to dissuade women from even wanting abortions. But alas, women are incredibly selfish creatures and would rather murder their own child because he/she is inconvenient. The only abortion that should be legal is where the pregnancy threatens the mothers life.

Response to u/NarniaFox ‘s study

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It's highly unlikely though, whereas the pregnant person will 100% experience physical pain as well as the potential for other health issues and long term damage to pelvis, abdominal muscles, teeth - not to mention the risk of death - particularly a concern in the US with their atrocious maternal mortality rates. All to bring an unwanted child into the world who will then have a shitty life because their parents don't want them.

If you want to outlaw all abortions except in the cases of health, then you also need to ensure the fathers are 100% liable for custody and/or child support if the couple doesn't stay together. Mandatory 50% physical custody and tracked and traced; they won't be allowed to move more than 30 minutes away for instance as they will need to remain nearby to ensure the child's life isn't impacted.

Mistakes happen. Unless you plan on outlawing sex for all but procreation and keeping people separate until it's time for their conjugal visit, there will always be accidental pregnancy. That doesn't mean people should be forced to live with the potentially devastating consequences of it.

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I mean, there's tons of differences

Certainly, I was just pointing out the most significant one.

A majority of men support the voluntary termination of a pregnancy within the first trimester,

...because men simp for women and this is what women want.

Apparently a majority of people think context matters when it comes to the taking of a human life.

Yes, and the majority of people draw that context line at agresses against me presenting a clear and direct threat to my life.

Many others draw it at has already agressed against others and caused them grievous harm.

Those supporting abortion largely rely on devaluing the life of certain individual human beings as a matter of their basic condition (developmental in his case) to such an extent as to define them as “not human” - similarly to how certain groups of humans always seek to define others whom they wish to kill and oppress en masse as “not human.”

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That only tells us that giving some kind of anesthesia could be a solution to this.

And from your own link:

Overall, the evidence, and a balanced reading of that evidence, points towards an immediate and unreflective pain experience mediated by the developing function of the nervous system from as early as 12 weeks. That moment is not categorical, fetal development is continuous and not an event, and we recognise that some evidence points towards an immediate and unreflective pain not being possible until later.47 Nevertheless, we no longer view fetal pain (as a core, immediate, sensation) in a gestational window of 12–24 weeks as impossible based on the neuroscience.

...

The fetus experiences something that is inherent to a certain level of biological activity, and which emerges at an unknown time often speculated to be after 12 weeks’ gestation.

So it still contradicts your idea that fetuses necessarily feel pain during abortions and, of course, this statement of yours:

Even with the “abortion pill”, they are still feeling pain when it basically melts them inside.

And overall your take on the matter and "knowledge" are hilarious. Nothing "melts" a fetus inside a womb, the first pill stops the rise of progesterone and this hormone is vital for pregnancy to keep developing, so without it pregnancy just...stops. The second pill induces cramps, so a womb would "clean itself". But with a stopped pregnancy a body often induces cramps and bleeding even without the second pill, it's taken as a precaution to make sure that everything would be okay and there wouldn't be heavy bleeding or infection.

In Russia you can get an abortion till 12 weeks, so...everything is okay I guess.

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For some reason I started trying to remember my group of misfits from high school.

There was me, your typical beta/loser bitch. My first year was pretty shitty because of it and in retrospect I deserved all of it. I got a bit better in my final year.
Face. Face wanted to be a normie, but he had a bad case of acne and an average case of fat. I remember he once had an unrequited crush and I said something less than ideal about her and he said he'll hop in (his parents') car and drive to where I live and beat me up. lmao
Donald. A "bad kid" but mostly bad because he lived in a shitty (part of) town. For all his posturing I've never seen/heard him get into a fight or in trouble for his smoking.
Preacher. Looked twice his age, especially in the first year. Hardcore catholic, he could tell you which pope passed which stupid catholic rule, and when. Even used to argue with our religious teacher about it.
Pear. Pear was tall but chubby, hence the name. Face's friend from wherever. Quite into the whole punk thing, self-proclaimed anarchist. He used to say "lol" and "rofl" out loud as if they were regular words(all this takes place in a non-english speaking country)
Legs. Transferred in from somewhere. Good grades, good at sports. When I finally snapped in the last year it was against him, and pretty much due to no fault of his at all. He just laughed it off. Definitely did not deserve to end up with the rest of us, but I guess that's what you get for transferring.

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A crown fell off a back tooth at the beginning of the pandemic and I wasn’t able to see my dentist for months. Once I got in I was told that the tooth had to be pulled, and my lower front teeth were due. I won’t lie: I didn’t take the best care of my teeth when I was younger and chain smoking for 5 years while popping in and out of war zones in the Middle East for 5 years didn’t help either.

Shit happens. I am ok with it but at the same time I realize that certain aspects of my life are pretty much over. I don’t eat with them in which implies that for the most part I don’t eat in public or in front of other people.

Life happens. I will be 51 in March. I always knew I’d hit the wall at this age. I still work out, and I care of myself which is a big reason I can still attract women but at this point it’s the law of diminishing returns.

As the adage goes there’s more important things in life than obsessing over relationships, marriage or the opposite sex. And on the flip side there is something liberating about being on the metaphorical budget rack at the grocery store. There doesn’t seem to be much point beyond brutal honesty with people and as far as women go I tend to engage them with a sense of dispassion.

Needless to say 2020 was a really shitty year. insert hollow laughter here

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Your first mistake was spending so much focus on a group of women who do not relate or represent the views of average women. Life isn't a genders studies class.

Another thing, I see no conflict between supporting women's rights and autonomy, getting wet af for a masculine man, and finding violent apes who can't control themselves 'toxic'. Being violent just to be violent is not a good use of masculinity. Being able to protect my small ass from another larger male IS. I am about my self interests. My self interests include my own survival and the survival of any child I may have one day. I don't ask men to pretend that they don't live and breathe for tits and ass so why should I be tasked to hide my own motivations?

I support this, I have disdain for weakness in men and I consider poor behavioral control as weakness.

I do all this and am team women. I don't expect women to be the same as men in function, I expect them to be the same as one in value. Kind of like how any good CEO understands a very valuable team has different roles and to achieve success, you can't have one without the other.

This isn't confusing. Nothing here is contradictory. I don't understand what the issue is.

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When one dude actually tries to become successful he’s shouted down by everyone else not to try because misery loves company.

It would happen... if they were women.

But men don't care.

A group of men usually don't want know about the love or sex life of one another that much. And it is even less likely to have any consequences of those.

We are not women, we are not as socially oriented. Men are friends with one another because of an activity they do together. That is the glue. Not what we do socially. "Hey guys, I had sex with a woman!" "congrats, anyways, [something about the activity they usually do]". Would be the normal response.

Also, even if a group tried to gang up on a lucky bastard who had a good night, the chances it would affect a mentally healthy grown man is close to none. He would be sad, sure, for some days, but go back and making spicy remarks back to their friend in a few days, if not hours.

We are not women, and I am tired of people who think we are.

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No, not all. You can care for a small child and it has pretty low chances to leave you with some permanent changes. You can care for your elderly parents and it won't give personally you incontinence.

1 in 6 births was affected by gestational diabetes.
Women who had prior GDM have a 36–70% risk of developing type 2 diabetes later in life. Gestational diabetes mellitus (GDM) is a risk factor for the development of endothelial dysfunction and cardiovascular disease.
Preeclampsia is one of the leading causes of maternal morbidity and mortality worldwide. It is a pregnancy-specific multi-organ syndrome that affects 2–8% of pregnancies.
There is a significant risk of preeclampsia recurrence in future pregnancies. There is an increased lifetime risk of chronic hypertension, cardiovascular disease (CVD), and stroke in women who experienced preeclampsia during pregnancy.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5575578/

And there is also incontinence

Four years after the first delivery, prevalence of stress urinary incontinence was 29% (89/307)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2662093/

9 out of 10 women will tear and 1 out of 100 will have 3d (extending away from vaginal wall towards the perineum to the anal sphincter) or 4th (extending into the anal canal as well as the rectum) degree tearing.

And we also have postpartum depression

Postpartum depression (PPD) affects up to 15% of mothers.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3918890/

That also can lead to a bipolar disorder

Approximately 14% of women with first-time psychiatric contacts during the first postpartum month converted to a bipolar diagnosis within the 15-year follow-up period compared with 4% of women with a first psychiatric contact not related to childbirth.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/1151054

And I've listed only few things, there are far more complications that a woman can get and there are complications that can haunt her till death. The risks aren't "extremely" rare at all.

[–]thelajestic2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]thelajestic1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Fair enough. I view this like auld yins who need help to get their messages and with bathing. They'd die if they were left alone but they still deserve to keep on kicking

For me that's more a fetus at post 24 weeks, or new born - they obviously can't survive on their own but they can with assistance, which should be given. Prior to that they can only survive on life support, which is different.

Mainly trannies beating you up. Biden has pushed HARD for trans to move into women's sports.

Has a tranny ever best you up before? They're our henchmen (well, henchladies actually...bigot). Lol.

I don't live in the US, however I'm quite happy for transgender women to compete in women's sports since they are women. If you're on t-blockers you produce less testosterone than a cis woman so I don't really get why people are bothered by it.

[–]EusticeSymington1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I don't live in the US, however I'm quite happy for transgender women to compete in women's sports since they are women. If you're on t-blockers you produce less testosterone than a cis woman so I don't really get why people are bothered by it.

I was into advanced calisthenics in the past and I was tempted to try steroids so I did a little research before and I decided not to and that I'd just join a gym after covid. Point being is that I learned that testosterone isn't the only thing that matters. Men have more androgen receptors than women so we make better use of it, some men have less test than others but put on more muscle because they have more receptors. This is why women who take steroids still never get to the size of Dorian Yates. The androgen receptors are also distributed more densly around our necks and shoulders. Then I read about the the thing that Test metabolises into : it's called DHT. DHT doesn't build muscle but it is the stuff that causes men to go bald and get hairy. It's also binds to receptors in the brain causing aggression and making our nervous systems fire more than women's. This is why men have quicker reaction times and why men are still stronger than women even when we have an equal amount of muscle as an equivalent woman. Our brains formed in the presence of DHT and test so you can't take away the advantages that they brought just by lowering hormone levels, that's like saying people with gigantism will no longer be gigantic when they manage to lower growth hormone levels.

Women are soft and squishy (we like that) and men are sinewy and hard. Just my thoughts.

[–]angels-fan1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]thelajestic2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm not being inconsistent. You're putting words in my mouth that I haven't said. Why are you under the impression that I'm pro abortion up until term?

fetuses don't spring into the womb a magical fully formed baby able to survive immediately upon ejection.
fetuses start as a wee clot of cells that slowly and gradually develop
up until a certain point, they have no viability outside the womb and would not be able to survive
it is perfectly morally acceptable to unplug brain-dead patients from life support as they cannot sustain life on their own.
it is not a woman's responsibility to be a life support machine to a clump of cells she doesn't want to sustain, therefore it is no more morally reprehensible to unplug that little batch of cells from life support
after around 24 weeks, it is now a baby that has the potential to survive outside the womb. Just as it's not the done thing to allow a car crash victim to lie on the side of the road bleeding out without giving medical attention, at this point it is obviously preferable that the host body gives the fetus the support it needs at that point to give it the best chance of survival.
even at this point, even countries with restrictive abortion laws normally allow abortion if the pregnancy will harm the mother. Her life is placed above the fetus as she is a fully formed, living human, and the fetus is only the possibility of one.

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Its because people in this sub blow RP posts out of proportion for argument's sake.

So everybody here ends up totally being autistic about what RP men say.

When I say women hit the wall, that doesn't mean women totally become incels or totally become invisible to men at age 30.. Its just that women who are used to having 90% advantage over men for all their youth, will suddenly face only 40-50% advantage over men in their 30's and even less advantage in their 40's and so on.

Its just that as young men grow up to become middle aged or older men, they too slowly accumulate SMV advantages provided he is a 5 or 6/10 in looks, deletes facebook, hits the gym, and work on his game.

A 20 year old girl can easily choose any men she want from any age range she prefers but a 20 year old man can only have realistic chance with women around 1-3 years older/younger than him.

Hitting the wall for women is a downgrade from the unearned advantage they had for 12+ years. Hitting the wall for women basically means women have to negotiate their worth to their filthy equals.

As the famous saying goes, for someone who's so used to privilege, equality feels like oppression.

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[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Maybe I just misinterpreted your post

I think we clearly established that.

If not how does this disprove that the average man doesn’t want to settle with an older woman or woman with kids?

Again, where do you get that she's older? She's 43, he's 49. And he has kids from a pervious marriage too.

You'll learn this as you get older but when you're in your 40s dating, you're dating people who have kids because everyone has kids. It's the norm.

I see why 20 something men find this so objectionable. In my 20s I would not have dated a man with kids. At my age, if I were single tomorrow, I'd expect Id be dating men with kids. because everyone has kids at my age.

My point (which was hardly unclear) was 1) so called post wall women get married all the time and 2) single moms get married all the time. That bitter men in their 20s want to promote revenge porn fantasies that the women their age who are rejecting them now will "pay" someday doesn't change this.

[–]SnowHatesWomePill Depends on who im Trolling1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I think we clearly established that.

That's cute. I like you

Again, where do you get that she's older?

Older in age, not relative to her partner.

You'll learn this as you get older but when you're in your 40s dating, you're dating people who have kids because everyone has kids.

Please don't assume my age. If a man has the choice between a younger woman with no kids and an older woman with kids, who do you think he will choose? And after you lie and rationalize how it would be the older woman, who do you think he would really choose?

1) so called post wall women get married all the time and

Sure

2) single moms get married all the time.

The sources I found seem to range between 35% and 49.5% never being married, but even if so, this doesn't refute the point that being a younger childless woman is better than being an older (in age) woman with kids

That bitter men in their 20s want to promote revenge porn fantasies that the women their age who are rejecting them now will "pay" someday doesn't change this.

I don't know why women like to pretend it is non-existent. Tune in to Kevin Samuels' show and see how many older women with kids are struggling to find desirable mates.

[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

Presumably he had the choice to date younger and chose a woman close to his age.

It’s not me whose “rationalizing” here.

45% of single mothers ever marry? Are we talking marry, remarry? Whats “never?” Like before they die at 90? I’d like to see a little more sourcing and context to these numbers you’re throwing around.

“Better” for who? What is “better?” Theres that strawman again.

Look I get that you guys have to poo poo every real life example that disproves these internet rules you study and memorize like a Bible. But the real world isn’t ruled by spreadsheets and pill theories.

But I will have to tell them how their engagement so deeply triggered a bunch of kids on Reddit for challenging their worldview. I’m sure they’ll get a kick out of it knowing some kid tied himself into a pretzel trying to argue that they don’t really exist because they don’t line up with a pill theory.

/s

[–]SnowHatesWomePill Depends on who im Trolling1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Alrighty ma’am. So let’s say I was a fatty. So fat it was repulsive and limiting my dating options. Now there are two camps of people. One is saying “hey bro, lose the lard it will help” and there’s another camp who says “I know a fatty who has a super model wife, those who say you need to be in shape to find love are wrong”. Technically as a fatty I can find a super model wife, but I think it would be wise to instead improve myself.

I don’t hate older women, I don’t even check for them so I have no dog in this fight. But when you share these anecdotes it comes off as, more of the latter example in my little analogy.

I was looking at various sources and like I said the data ranged from 30-49% so I gave up. If you think women should dry and have as many kids as possible and wait till they’re older to find love whatever have at it and tell ur friends and family and nieces to do so. Idk. I’ve lost interest in this argument

[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I’m 45. I see single parents my age dating and getting married every day. The revenge narrative you all have created for yourselves to lessen the pain of being rejected in your prime has fuck all to do with what is actually happening IRL.

People in their 40s do not care about this shit. Truthfully people in their 20s don’t either. At least ones out there actually living their lives and not spending their prime young years on Reddit obsessing over who strangers are fucking.

But hey. You have the narrative down pat. So tuck yourself in with it tonight and sleep well.

Me, I’m going to take my post wall ass upstairs now and fuck the brains out of my beta bucks middle aged husband who really wants a 15 year old virgin but is stuck with me cause something something divorce rape even though I make almost as much as he does. Don’t forget to remind yourself I’m simultaneously hypergamously branching swinging with men who don’t want me because I’m too old.

Cause circle jerk aside, I’ll be the one waking up tomorrow with a smile.

[–]SnowHatesWomePill Depends on who im Trolling1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm back.

I’m 45. I see single parents my age dating and getting married every day. The revenge narrative you all have created for yourselves to lessen the pain of being rejected in your prime has fuck all to do with what is actually happening IRL.

I think I'm doing alright for myself, but if thinking I'm getting rejected helps you sleep at night I hope it helps.

People in their 40s do not care about this shit. Truthfully people in their 20s don’t either. At least ones out there actually living their lives and not spending their prime young years on Reddit obsessing over who strangers are fucking.

I don't care who other people are fucking. I am a whore, and my wife will probably be one too based on the woman I date. I'm just saying, older and with kids, eh probably not the best. If you genuinely believe this is the route to go, I want you to advise the young women in your life to get knocked up and look for love. Put your money where your mouth is.

Me, I’m going to take my post wall ass upstairs now and fuck the brains out of my beta bucks middle aged husband who really wants a 15 year old virgin but is stuck with me cause something something divorce rape even though I make almost as much as he does.

1) Eww old people sex, I hope your thinking of me though ;)

2) I hope you don't refer to him like that in front of his face, that's kinda fucked

3)That's kinda pedo, but if you're okay with that whatever

Don’t forget to remind yourself I’m simultaneously hypergamously branching swinging with men who don’t want me because I’m too old.

Now, who's strawman lol.

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Its really sad how Valentine's Day has triggered so many men here.

I mean we don't even celerbate it. Never have. It's a fake holiday designed to sell shit, and I don't need someone else to tell my SO when to give me a gift and appreciate me. So if someone wants to trash V Day I dont' really care.

But there's serious negative vibe going on here today. I mean I saw more woe is me I should just kill myself because no one loves me posts today than I've ever seen here.

Please. Get some help. I say this from a place of love because it's really unhealthy. And if you think you're miserable now, you're going to wake up one day and realize you pissed away the best years of your life being angry at people who are out there living their lives and not giving a fuck about you.

Find your happiness before it's too late.

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low N ... much more likely to be low libido

Nah. There’s no correlation between libido and whether or not a woman fucks the whole town. Dont conflate sociosexual attitudes with libido

“Enjoying sex” doesn’t equate to fucking multiple different men.

Fucking multiple different men only means a woman likes strange weiners (hence why they cheat when “monogamous”)

Many women who enjoy sex choose to have LOTS of it with only ONE man in the context of an LTR.

In any case, women who are LTR-oriented and have sex only in LTRs (ie, low n-count women) have more total sex than sluts having ONS and/or seeing a new FWB every few weeks/months.

The low n count woman likes sex more. The slut only likes strange poles.

DB

Nah

A high n woman is more likely to create a dead bedroom because it’s more likely that her past partners were better in bed than her husband (as women shoot upwards in casual sex).

As a result, she’s used to way better sex in the past and her husband doesn’t measure up. So she’ll only be having sex out of obligation which leads to a DB more quickly

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Would like to point out that it is more likely for a man to be paternity fraud-ed than it is for a woman to be raped

“where are all the rapes coming from?” 140,000 / 167,500,000 = .084% (8.4 hundtreths of 1%)

That’s not a very many in perspective, and that’s inclusive of a broad definition of rape and presumes all US rape is male on female (and a significant proportion of it is not).

For context, there is about as much much annual paternity fraud in the US as there is rape of females even though there are roughly 50 times fewer births in which paternity fraud could be committed than there are females who could be raped. This (of course) suggests that women are roughly 50 times more likely to commit paternity fraud than men are to rape.

I used the example of paternity fraud as an example of the relative infrequency of rape.

Well, as it turns out, men who would commit rape are roughly 50 times more rare than women who would commit paternity fraud.

u/SeemedGood

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World class math right there.

That aside, I assume you’re in favor of mandatory paternity testing.

Which in theory I don’t have much of a problem with. The issue is how do you do to logistically?

Hospitals shouldn’t not have to take on this burden. It exposes them to unnecessary legal liability that takes away from their purpose which is to provide medical care. Their job is to deliver the baby safely not to be in the dad verification business.
So maybe you have a state oversee it the testing. The question then is how you do it. Do you have caseworker go out and administer the test? Do you require that the father go to a lab or send in samples? How will you assure he actually does it and how will you verify the integrity of those test samples? And most importantly who will pay for that? People don’t even want their tax dollars raised to pay for schools let alone paternity tests.
You can’t test was doesn’t exist. This only works when a father has been identified. What if the mother doesn’t name a father? There is no one to test. Unless you’re saying that she has to name a father at the time of birth or forfeit the right later to claim paternity, this doesn’t actually solve for the issue you’re concerned about.

So if you can come up with a way to solve for these issues, you’ll have my vote.

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You can’t test was doesn’t exist. This only works when a father has been identified. What if the mother doesn’t name a father? There is no one to test.

Mandatory paternity testing would be for the benefit of the man, not the woman.

A test would only be done when the woman “accuses” a particular man of being the father , whether at birth, or weeks/months/years after birth.

The paternity test isn’t to track down a man in some database if she doesn’t know his name (LOL!). It’s not for the benefit of women, it’s for the benefit of men.

this doesn’t actually solve for the issue you’re concerned about.

Yes it does. No man is on the hook for child support unless and until a paternity test confirms that he is the father. That’s what we’re concerned about. We’re not concerned about women finding the identity of some rando dude that knocked her up

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I don't think you're understanding what I am saying. How do you even know who to test if a father is not named?

I don’t think you’re understanding what I am saying

If there’s no man to name, then there’s no paternity test occurring at all, so there’s no man named on the birth certificate, and the woman foots the entire 18 year bill for the child on her own

If the woman chooses to name a man to be the father , then there’s a specific DNA test to be done to see whether that particular man is the father. If the test is positive, then his name goes on the birth certificate. If the test is negative, his name doesn’t go on it and the woman is on her own footing the 18 year cost of the child

Not sure I understand what you mean. So paternity testing is only done in the case of when the man disputes being the father?

No. It’s done in all cases where there is a birth where the woman has a man to name and believes that either her husband, boyfriend or friend is the father. And only when there is a positive DNA result will he be placed on the birth certificate

If she has no clue who, then there is no paternity test, and no man’s name goes on the birth certificate. She is on her own to financially care for the child

Like I said, mandatory paternity testing is solely for the benefit and peace of mind for the man being named, it’s not to find men in a database for them to foot the bill of their child; it’s solely to prevent women from committing paternity fraud

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What you’re describing already exists. A man who is not married to the mother has to sign an acknowledgement beore his name can be put on the birth certificate as the father.

Nope.

Women can just add any name they want

Moreover, it should be that a positive DNA test is needed before he can acknowledge and sign the birth certificate, as plenty of clueless duped men are signing for children that aren’t theirs because mommy said “it’s yours” .. hence the point of mandatory testing, to save simps from themselves and stop conniving women

If he agrees to it but later becomes suspicous, he goes to court with a DNA test that proves he isn't the father, contests her claim and does not have to pay child support.

Nope. There are plenty of cases where men were proven not to be the father after a DNA test and the judge ruled that he still had to pay child support

Example: https://www.aol.com/article/news/2019/10/21/man-forced-to-pay-child-support-even-though-dna-test-proves-child-is-not-his/23844201/

I wish ~~men~~ women on PPD who get on their soapboxes would research the issues before opening their mouths.

[–]poppy_blubeware the knee scars1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

No they can not, LMAO.

Yes I know this is like manosphere myth #101. "He wasn't the father and still had to pay." Ok did the testing not follow state regulations for establishing paternity? Was it not filed with in the required time window?

Now I agree that type of red tape is problematic and needs to go. But lets also not be disingenous about what we're claiming went down.

OK you keep deleting and reposting the comment - stop.

it should be that a positive DNA test is needed before he can acknowledge and sign the birth certificate,

I agree. Which brings us back to MY original point that you've been dismissing for the last hour.

Calm down, take a breath, remove the knee jerk emotional reactions and concentrate on what I am saying here.

If testing needs to be done BEFORE a mans name goes on the BC, uncluding the man who is married to her, that means mandatory paternity testing.

smh

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CMV: male entitlement helps men get laid more than hinders them, ergo its better for men to be entitled than to not.

Demonstration:

One guy feels entitled to women's time and attention and so goes and approches any woman he feels attracted to regardless of how it might potentially make her feel. The other guy "respect women" and therefore doesnt bother them with his sexuality and leaves all strange women alone because women cried online about how "to be a woman is to live life on the defense". Ceteris paribus, who will get laid more? Obviously the former.

There also are many women in the niche of wanting a guy to be completely DGAF and steamroll her shit tests leading up to him manhandling her in bed and making her his bitch. Over enough approaches, the entitled guy who doesnt give a shit about women or care about inconveniencing them is going to end up encountering more of them and thus getting laid more. The niche for being a meek little neurotic bitch boy is virtually nonexistent.

So, in closing. Pro tip for men: be entitled. Itll help you get more pussy.

If youre gunna cry about thinking youre going to go to jail or some shit for talking to a woman, youre letting the feminists win by believing the fear mongering. This is exactly what they want you to believe, because it is in team woman's best interest for the majority of men to not "bother" them. Theyre full of shit. Call their bluff.

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RP hot takes and observations;

RP like to say that women live on easy mode, because "women get treated well", and negate the fact that women are only "treated well" if the men they are interacting with are attracted to them. And even then they are still subject to belittling and infantilisation instead of being respected as an equal human being. This being "treated well" is often just harrassment and manipulation to obtain sex. It's fickle and deghumanising.
RP like to complain about said "easy mode", and negate the fact that women had to organise, and fight for social and economic equality. If men want to get treated better they should also organise in order to raise awareness about mens issues (looking at you Suicide Rates) instead of trying to revert society back to traditionalist ideologies that are going extinct. Bonus: if men really cared about mens issues they would join feminist movements in fighting for equal paternity leave and pay, which would lead to fairer custody/ alimony agreements.
How you treat women socially is how you should be treated everyone. If you only treat people well if you want something from them it shows how devoid of principles and character you are.
RP need to stop acting like not getting sex is legitimate oppression. Conversations about poor mental health, and the subpar way we raise boys that contributes to maladaptive personality traits and social skills is legitmate. But as soon as you start feeling entitled to sex, you give women the ammunition to demand a man with 8 inches and a welfare benefit for penis reconstruction. We all have our preferences.
RP likes to complain about women being attention seekers. But the fact is, if a woman casually flirts with a guy, and partakes in other behaviours that illicit attention, from people she actually has no interest in long term, she has simply recognised a need within herself and taken the neccessary steps to satisfy that need. Thats just being goal oriented. Maybe the manosphere should do the same instead of retreating to misogynistic forums where they are guaranteed to not get their needs fulfilled.
Another thing about attention seekers; men are huge attention seekers; they are always trying to one-up each other and show off (driving really fast in cars with tacky body kits, talking endless about how amazing they are, trying to lift the heaviest weights in the gym, daring each other to do stupid shit, being arrogant, derading others to make themselves look good etc). Why don't you spend your time learning good communication skills and empathy, because drinking 8 shots in a row and vomitting on yourself at the end of the night isn't impressive.
RP would be less desperate for sex and female attention if male communities were actually mutually supportive, and cared about the welfare of other men instead of bonding over self-depreciation and blaming women. The best thing about being a woman is not how we get treated by men, but the solidarity and emotional connection we have with other women. (;This is my opinion shut up). Your really missing out.
RP are angry about 80/20, yet women have had to dwal with not being the beauty standard for aeons. Its a fact of life, get a shape up and gym and deal with it like the rest of us do. Or try and do an body positivity campaign on social media that promotes varying beauty norms.
Im glad RP exists. Most of the people attracted to these types of communities have had neglectful upbringings, and are maladjusted and toxic It's better you stay in your forums and fester in your own toxicity that expose that to the rest of society. That sounds harsh, but its true.
Most of you need a therapist.

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And even then they are still subject to belittling and infantilisation instead of being respected as an equal human being. This being "treated well" is often just harrassment and manipulation to obtain sex. It's fickle and deghumanising.

You don’t want to be treated as an equal, you don't want to give up women's privileges while taking away men’s.

RP like to complain about said "easy mode", and negate the fact that women had to organise, and fight for social and economic equality. If men want to get treated better they should also organise in order to raise awareness about mens issues (looking at you Suicide Rates) instead of trying to revert society back to traditionalist ideologies that are going extinct.

That's why MRAs and Pillosphere exist.

Bonus: if men really cared about mens issues they would join feminist movements in fighting for equal paternity leave and pay, which would lead to fairer custody/ alimony agreements.

You cannot bring men’s issues on any feminist platform, you will get instantly banned, cancelled, etc.

And no feminism is not about equality, it's about empowering women and only women.

How you treat women socially is how you should be treated everyone. If you only treat people well if you want something from them it shows how devoid of principles and character you are.

Tell me if you treat well those who bring no value in your life.

RP need to stop acting like not getting sex is legitimate oppression.

It is. You just don’t care at all.

Conversations about poor mental health, and the subpar way we raise boys that contributes to maladaptive personality traits and social skills is legitmate. But as soon as you start feeling entitled to sex, you give women the ammunition to demand a man with 8 inches and a welfare benefit for penis reconstruction. We all have our preferences.

Sure, but don’t get mad when people point at your eugenics.

RP likes to complain about women being attention seekers. But the fact is, if a woman casually flirts with a guy, and partakes in other behaviours that illicit attention, from people she actually has no interest in long term, she has simply recognised a need within herself and taken the neccessary steps to satisfy that need. Thats just being goal oriented. Maybe the manosphere should do the same instead of retreating to misogynistic forums where they are guaranteed to not get their needs fulfilled.

Nope, men don't work that way.

Another thing about attention seekers; men are huge attention seekers; they are always trying to one-up each other and show off (driving really fast in cars with tacky body kits, talking endless about how amazing they are, trying to lift the heaviest weights in the gym, daring each other to do stupid shit, being arrogant, derading others to make themselves look good etc).

Men do these because women reward these behaviours.

Why don't you spend your time learning good communication skills and empathy, because drinking 8 shots in a row and vomitting on yourself at the end of the night isn't impressive.

Men don't do these because these are not rewarded behaviour by women.

RP would be less desperate for sex and female attention if male communities were actually mutually supportive, and cared about the welfare of other men instead of bonding over self-depreciation and blaming women. The best thing about being a woman is not how we get treated by men, but the solidarity and emotional connection we have with other women. (;This is my opinion shut up). Your really missing out.

Men would go extinct if they become undependable weak individuals who cannot stand on their own over a night.

RP are angry about 80/20, yet women have had to dwal with not being the beauty standard for aeons. Its a fact of life, get a shape up and gym and deal with it like the rest of us do. Or try and do an body positivity campaign on social media that promotes varying beauty norms.

Men have wider attraction range compared to women, you cannot bring that up as a retaliation. Also eugenics.

Im glad RP exists. Most of the people attracted to these types of communities have had neglectful upbringings, and are maladjusted and toxic It's better you stay in your forums and fester in your own toxicity that expose that to the rest of society. That sounds harsh, but its true.

You are quite innocent one. You may not know who's red pilled or not in your circle.

Most of you need a therapist.

Lol.

[–]Zippo-Cat1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

If you only treat people well if you want something from them it shows how devoid of principles and character you are.

But

• RP likes to complain about women being attention seekers. But the fact is, if a woman casually flirts with a guy, and partakes in other behaviours that illicit attention, from people she actually has no interest in long term, she has simply recognised a need within herself and taken the neccessary steps to satisfy that need. Thats just being goal oriented.

???

Do people who say these contradictory things actively know what rotten hypocrites they are, or is it all just a smarmy toxic miasma of "for me but not for thee" that silently festers because no one ever bothers calling them out on their illiteracy??

Many of your points could be distilled as "women self-interested behavior good, man self-interested behavior bad", for which there is zero justification

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If you only treat people well if you want something from them it shows how devoid of principles and character you are.

But

• RP likes to complain about women being attention seekers. But the fact is, if a woman casually flirts with a guy, and partakes in other behaviours that illicit attention, from people she actually has no interest in long term, she has simply recognised a need within herself and taken the neccessary steps to satisfy that need. Thats just being goal oriented.

These two points aren't mutually exclusive; a person being flirtatious in one instance does not mean the entirety of their social interactions are transactional.

Many people are capable of valuing human connection, to a point that a gesture such as opening a door for someone, or striking up a conversation with someone, or complimenting someone on their shoes is reward enough.

Thinking that these things ought to result in some kind of indebtedness is misguided.

However, if you find yourself at a club, and a beautiful woman is flirting with you, you are well within your rights to hault her on her tracks and tell her your attentiom requires payment in pussy. :)

[–]octocombo1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]octocombo1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Did she ever say that goal-oriented behavior was wrong in general? My interpretation was that she said it's only wrong if you treat someone poorly when you have no goal with them and well when you have a goal with them.

But obviously there are plenty of goal-oriented behaviors where they're neutral with respect to treating people well/poorly. For example, if I want something that a person is selling, I will approach them, give them my attention, and have a conversation about the purchase, whereas if I walk past a stranger who isn't selling something I want, I usually won't initiate a conversation.

I would say that flirting and seeking attention are in that category of neutral behaviors with respect to treating people well/poorly. If you're looking for attention by dressing well, that's probably neutral or positive from the perspective of your audience. If you're looking for attention by telling a scandalous lie about someone, that's negative. So the activity of seeking attention is something that can be done in a way that involves treating others poorly or well.

If you still think she was saying that goal-oriented behavior is always wrong (even when it's neutral with respect to treating others well/poorly), can you explain why that's a better interpretation of what she wrote than my interpretation?

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You're a girl. You didn't save yourself. Don't take credit for something you didn't earn. You got free handouts from society.

That you were lonely to begin with just means you were very weird and incompetent. Being a lonely woman is very abnormal.

Women can go join any site, meetup, group or chat group and get automatically included just for being a woman. If a woman tries to make friends online, shes get inundated with people trying to chat with her and her job is to just filter people out. A woman who posts on any and all types of online social networks gets many more likes and comments than men.

It's contrasted with the male experience of always having to prove himself, be interesting and providing value just to make friends and be included while getting constantly rejected and having few opportunities to work.

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A lot depends on the skill of the clinician. I had an old doc up in Canada who did the second one, back in the days of the Dalkon Shield scare where they weren't selling them in the U.S. for awhile. (Yes, I actually went outside the country to get birth control.) That doc was such a smooth hand that I never felt a thing! I tried to book an appointment with him the next time I needed to re-up, but sadly he had passed away in the interim. That time, I had a U.S. doc who supposedly trained other docs in the procedure so I felt I was in good hands, but ... OUCH! I kept that IUD for 18 years because the insertion hurt so bad that I was terrified of ever going through it again.

Finally, when I went to get the IUD I have now, the clinician at PP tried but was unsuccessful. She said, "Your cervix is like a brick wall." I told her I inseminate cows for a living so I knew EXACTLY what she meant, and don't sweat it! PP referred me to another clinic with some super-skilled doc who got the job done but billed my insurance (when I still had insurance, lol) $2,000.

I will die with this IUD in me, lol.

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PPD needs to ban talk of ugly women not being able to get laid or married the way they ban anything that is even tangentially related to incel talk.

Why? The Red Pill and MGTOW has largely become incel talk. Since when are "kings of personal development", TRP, complaining about what ugly women are doing, why no one will fuck them, the top 20%, etc. There is less talk about getting the girl and more about why women don't ask men out like a bunch of ***s. I can quote right here but I'm following sub rules.

The conversation has become just about identical with a lot of classic Braincels ire - just way less funny and very little sparkle of dark insight. If anything, mods are essentially just scanning for keywords. Meaningful removal of incel talk would get majority of the male posts on here removed.

But of course, energy is only projected towards ugly women, the very least of the conversation on PPD. As always, when there is only a little energy left, this is where it will still come. lol.

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“men consistently report greater enjoyment of it, while women experience more negative reactions. After having casual sex, women are more likely to self-report depression, regret, and feeling “used.”

Campbell, A. (2008). The morning after the night before: Affective reactions to one-night stands among mated and unmated women and men. Human Nature, 19, 157–173.

women were twice as likely to reach orgasm from intercourse or oral sex in serious relationships, compared to hookups. The findings were presented at the annual meeting of the International Academy of Sex Research and at the Annual Convention for Psychological Science this year, The New York Times reported.

https://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/news/20131112/women-sex-orgasm#:~:text=Women%20are%20less%20likely%20to,serious%20relationships%2C%20compared%20to%20hookups.

experience with a particular partner, and commitment all predict women’s orgasm and sexual enjoyment.

Much of the growing body of research on hooking up expresses concern for women’s well-being and suggests that hookups benefit men at the expense of women (Bogle 2008; Bradshaw, Kahn, and Saville 2010; Eshbaugh and Gute 2008; Glenn and Marquardt 2001; Grello, Welsh, and Harper 2006; Regnerus and Uecker 2011).

This concern is based in part on the assumption that a committed relationship is the most likely context for pleasurable sex, especially for women. Research supports the claim that sex in committed relationships is better

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0003122412445802

Why do women do it? First of all most of them don't. The ones that do are usually depressed, lonely, or stupid.

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In that sense, if you mean less promiscuity, and women basically not having freedom, then yes, I would say there's little to no trad women/men.

I just meant couple dynamics like the trad-wife and trad-husband (provider/the one who keeps the home), since we were talking about money and independent women and whatnot.

I do agree it seems to have more to do with the economy than anything, and maybe more men would like to go traditional if it was easier to make a lot of money, because there would be more benefits for them; on the other hand, less women, though they have the skills and abilities, would want to "reduce" themselves to staying at home and etc. so yeah, most aren't trad-minded.

There are a lot of women who want to be provided for and want to be SAHMs and etc. though and some who proudly practice traditional values and hypergamy. Just not the majority, and it's not easy for them to be able to find a man who can provide (actually, these women get shitted on by men and get called golddiggers -- men do like independent women; it doesn't make sense why they'd want a woman to leech onto them in this day and age).

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So fucking disingenous

The article/study is speaking about paternity fraud, and you fucking know it too

Well, no, I don't, because it's behind a paywall so I can only read the headline and I'm not going to take your word for it.

I do know that a person can be mistaken about the identity of their father without the father being mistaken about the paternity of the child. The former does not necessarily suggest the latter and it's illogical to extrapolate one from the other.

I'm not the one being disingenuous. There are a lot of ways where a man could be raising a child he knows isn't his without the child's knowledge.

I'm not going to take your word for it that the article didn't say "10% of fathers are mistaken about the paternity of their children" to avoid "political incorrectness" unless you can show me that's the case. Seems like a lot of speculation on your part. I think they didn't say it because they didn't mean it, because that's not what the statistic shows. Any journalist with a brain would know that those stats aren't interchangeable.

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Women tend to re-write in their head what a “HVM” is when they get rejected by women they couldn’t get. The men who wife them up after the got rejected by the men they truly want become the new “HVM”

To tell you the truth, I'm not pursuing "HVM" because I literally don't care; have never been rejected by one, and in fact, I never do the pursuing. If he's attractive to me (already hard enough to find and something a lot of "HVM" don't have b/c many lose appeal when they open their mouths or do something that makes me go "ick", even though they're more objectively good looking), has some type of job, is chill, and shares the same interests/future plans-- that's my version of high value. But! I still know who you mean when you say "HVM". Good looking celebrities/athletes, for example. Plenty of them wife up women with high n counts.

LMAO I'm perfectly aware of "she belongs to the streets". Future is the biggest manwhore out there, he shouldn't even be talking 😭plus he was in a short term relationship with Lori Harvey (basically his female version atp) which ended on a really quiet, non-dramatic tone. Speaking of Lori she is kinda "monkey branching" in the public eye rn (and I am watching this a little impressed tbh; again, I'm a volcel), and ended up with Michael B. Jordan. Clearly fits your definition of a HVM, clearly doesn't care about her n count, clearly doing the cute relationship thing and are the envy of a lot of people on social media apparently.

The men marrying sluts are desperate betas who don’t have the option to be picky and have to take what they can get

This is quite literally a fantasy. Many times you can't even tell a promiscuous woman from a low n count woman, and many times people lie.

HVM know first hand why it’s a bad idea. Dumb betas don’t know any better

Men who categorize themselves and use "HVM" and "alpha"/"beta" terms are already not "HVM" to me.

[–][deleted]1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Many times you can't even tell a promiscuous woman from a low n count woman, and many times people lie.

That’s the belief you are most comfortable with. It’s very easy to determine an estimate of her count. We won’t know the exact number, but we’ll know if it’s low (wife material) or high (streets)

Experienced men know what signs to look for and how to suss it out, ie, Feign being a non judgemental cuck when you’re drunk with her alone OR with her and her friends playing drinking games... and begin to share your own stories. Then she will start to share hers.

Then do the math in your head of all the degenerate things she’s done, then make a mental note to fuckzone her if she ever asks for an upgrade, and just giving her a politically correct reason so she is none the wiser.

[–]athrowaway2832221 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

We won’t know the exact number, but we’ll know if it’s low (wife material) or high (streets)

I stand corrected. I guess this:

Feign being a non judgemental cuck when you’re drunk with her alone OR with her and her friends playing drinking games... and begin to share your own stories. Then she will start to share hers.

...could work. If she drinks herself to a certain point, yeah, she'll reveal anything. If she's smart enough not to or is aware of this game that men play (because whyyy, if you have a past, would it ever be smart to talk about it with your current partner?), then no. But I'm guessing most women trust that most men are "non judgmental cucks" nowadays so it works, and I'm glad that more men are. Tbh, I get that you yourself have a preference for a low n count woman. I have a preference for a low n count man (I'd date/marry a virgin too), that's my ideal for a partner and men are more open with these things, though they usually exaggerate for some reason -- I won't rule someone out immediately based on n count, but like >15 concerns me at around my age, >20 if I go a bit above my age. I just want someone with less experience like me, or someone who isn't obsessed with sex and wants a wholesome relationship where sex is an addition rather than the focus.

But that doesn't mean that all promiscuous men are bad partners or more likely to cheat, for example (doesn't matter b/c I don't do sex before commitment anyways so I mostly won't be around promiscuous men in that sort of setting). I wouldn't judge a man nor a woman on n count solely.

[–][deleted]1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–][deleted]1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

it's safe to assume a high one for most celebrities/IG models, woman or man.

No it’s not. For men yes, but not for women.

Quite the opposite actually. The more attractive the woman, the lower the n-count. It’s average and below average women racking up high n-counts

In women, increased physical attractiveness decreases their mean sexual partner count. A decreasing BMI decreases mean sexual partner count. Thinness is a dimension of attractiveness in women so this pattern is consistent with the pattern seen in physical attractiveness. The wealthier their parents, the more sexual partners they had. For women, more attractive and thinner women were less likely to report having sexual intercourse within a week of meeting their partner, were less likely to classify their relationships as only having sex, and more likely to classify their relationships as exclusive.

In men, increased physical attractiveness increases their mean sexual partner count. Being of normal weight to overweight increased partner count relative to being underweight/overweight. Normal to heavy weight is considered to be the ideal weight in men, so this pattern is consistent with the pattern seen in physical attractiveness. The wealthier their parents, the less sexual partners they had. The most attractive men were most likely to report having sex within the first week, with no clear difference being shown between unattractive, average, and attractive men. Physically attractive men were most likely to report their relationships being just sex, while unattractive men were most likely to report their relationships being exclusive.

source

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Less severe sentencing for breaking the law. Reproductive rights men aren't allowed to name a few actual rights.

But when we speak of privilege it's not necessarily in the form of rights, but advantages. The women are wonderful effect is well documented. To deny it exists is nonsense.

In the same sense of the term white privilege there is woman privilege in every facet of society. Hiring quotas resulting in preferential treatment. The ability to use their natural sexual advantage over men when men aren't allowed to use their natural biological advantage for the good of society.

I can't even believe I had to explain that to you.

For every other class that is underprivileged there are movements and campaigns designed to even out the playing field. But in some sick perverse twist, even with all their advantages women insist they are the victims and men have privilege.

Imagine arguing that homosexuals are more privileged than straight people, that is the equivalent of what women are doing now

[–]NarniaFox1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Special-Armadillo-991 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Women have "inherent value" because men want sex more than them because of a hormone men are naturally born with. Therefore they have a natural advantage, they leverage that advantage to get what they want.

Men are naturally stronger, that's their natural advantage, but men aren't allowed to use their strength to get what they want.

Why? Because society would break down, so men agreed they would not use their natural advantage. The flipside if this was, to make things fair, women had to sacrifice their sexual advantage and get married young and stay married instead of shutting about as women do now.

Then women called this "oppression" even though it was equality because both sexes were denied their natural advantages, and fought to free themselves to behave like animals, but made sure to keep men from doing the same.

This is not equality. Violence will break down society quickly, so it's easy to say it's wrong. It's less easy to realize that women behaving like animals (slutting for hot men who wouldn't spit on them if they were on fire, resulting in the explosion of single motherhood rates) will also result in the destruction of society, just slower.

Why do women feel men must behave in order to maintain society but they do not think they need to do the same?

Oh the patriarchy!? It doesn't matter WHY women are privileged it just matters that they ARE.

The heterosexual people that say those things are mocked and laughed at nearly universally, and treated as pariahs canceled from all forms of social media and fired.

The women who say this are celebrated.

[–]NarniaFox1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Men aren't stopped from using their natural advantage as long as it's legal. They can do sport, work using their physical strength, protect themselves and people they care about.

Women are free to use their natural advantage as long as they legal too. And arguably it's men who are interested in legalizing more ways women could use men's higher libido.

We also should look at some Scandinavian countries, that are deeply into women's rights and egalitarianism and that do far far better socially than countries where women suffer from discrimination and are forced into a strict totally depended on a man gender role. It really doesn't seem that Norway is going to collapse due to women having casual sex.

Plus, I'm still not convinced that women should feel bad for men's problems as most of them have nothing to do with women's "privilege" in dating.

[–]Special-Armadillo-991 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Men aren't stopped from using their natural advantage as long as it's legal. They can do sport, work using their physical strength, protect themselves and people they care about.

That's the point it's illegal. And that's for the best for everyone just like limiting women's sexual advantages would be and was.

Women are free to use their natural advantage as long as they legal too. And arguably it's men who are interested in legalizing more ways women could use men's higher libido.

Why should women's advantage be legal if men's aren't.

We also should look at some Scandinavian countries, that are deeply into women's rights and egalitarianism and that do far far better socially than countries where women suffer from discrimination and are forced into a strict totally depended on a man gender role. It really doesn't seem that Norway is going to collapse due to women having casual sex.

Actually the birth rates are falling everywhere where women aren't kept in check. That will inevitably lead to collapse.

Plus, I'm still not convinced that women should feel bad for men's problems as most of them have nothing to do with women's "privilege" in dating.

Yes actually they do though how do they not?

[–]NarniaFox1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Special-Armadillo-991 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

First of all, it's illegal for everyone to physically force others to do what they don't want to do.

I never argued otherwise, women couldn't force 99% of men to do anything by force anyways so it's the equivalent of abortion being legal for males

Because as a society we value human rights and safety. Or at least because we should value this things.

Yes I agree, that's my point. We made force illegal because it causes harm. So does single motherhood, cause harm I mean. Just because it's not instantaneous doesn't mean it's not harm.

Low birth rates are a good thing. There are too many people already and we have limited resources and space.

False, without replacement rates the population grows old and relies on things like social security which requires people to pay into to exist, without enough people paying in to those social programs well have old people starving and the economy will collapse.

That's what I mean by harm. The overpopulated areas are not the areas with low birth rates, or even replacement birth rates.

I already pointed out why Norway is a bad example and an aging population is a disaster. Dunno why you felt the need to quote yourself again.

[–]NarniaFox1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Special-Armadillo-991 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

There are women who rape, physically hurt and kill other people though.

I said 99% for a reason.

Lots of things can possibly cause harm, but we usually prohibit only the ones that do it directly.

But it's not a maybe, the harm IS occurring its not even up for debate.

And this leads us to the conclusion that our whole economy and societies aren't made for a long run.

Because women refuse to be civilized?

We can't keep reproducing at constantly growing rates and sooner or later the question of overpopulation and a lack of resources will become drastic enough to reconsider the whole structure of our communities.

We need REPLACEMENT rates not growing.

Ecologically-wise it's already happening.

In third world countries maybe.

Because in that paragraph I wrote that examples like Norway show that the cause of most of men's problems isn't in women not being discriminated.

I'm not saying to discriminate. Only women would view not being able to be recklessly slutty discrimination.

[–]NarniaFox1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Dude, you aren't right about 99%. Men do commit most of the crimes, but not 99%.

the harm IS occurring its not even up for debate.

It is to debate as long as you haven't convinced enough people in it. For now you can't convince even me and I'm somewhat interested in debating it, most people outside of this place would just dismiss you and your claims.

Because women refuse to be civilized?

Because they need growing population, not even a stable replacement levels of it.

In third world countries maybe.

We live on one planet, you know. It affects all of us whether we want to admit it or not.

I'm not saying to discriminate.

You think that the way things were before women's movements are okay and this was equality. Equality with women not being able to vote, to get proper education, to take most jobs, have their own property etc.

And, well, yes, I do call it's discrimination. People should be able to decide for themselves whether they even want to get married or not. I got married in my early 20s, my husband is my first partner. I don't think that it would work for a majority of people and I don't want our kids (if we have any) to be pressed into marriage they don't want.

[–]Special-Armadillo-991 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Very funny. You're ignoring what I'm responding to. I said 99% of women couldn't overpower men. You said women assault rape and murder. My response was that I said 99% for a reason.

It is to debate as long as you haven't convinced enough people in it.

The amount of people who she isn't evidence of anything being factually correct. That's a logical fallacy, Argumentum ad populum.

For now you can't convince even me and I'm somewhat interested in debating it, most people outside of this place would just dismiss you and your claims.

Why not explain what you think I said was wrong and why?

Because you don't want an honest debate.

Because they need growing population, not even a stable replacement levels of it.

Yes they DO need just replacement we need enough young to pay for the old.

We live on one planet, you know. It affects all of us whether we want to admit it or not.

But only certain places are overpopulated what's your saying makes no sense.

[You think that the way things were before women's movements are okay and this was equality.

I've explained WHY.

Equality with women not being able to vote, to get proper education, to take most jobs, have their own property etc.

I never suggested those rights be removed.

And, well, yes, I do call it's discrimination.

Call what discrimination? Your strawman?

People should be able to decide for themselves whether they even want to get married or not.

I never said they shouldn't I'm saying INCENTIVIZE not force.

I got married in my early 20s, my husband is my first partner. I don't think that it would work for a majority of people and I don't want our kids (if we have any) to be pressed into marriage they don't want.

I don't give a fuck about your anecdotes

[–]NarniaFox1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

And I'm telling you that women do rape, physically hurt and kill men. Most women probably couldn't overpower men one to one, but one can hurt another human being pretty badly even if they are much weaker.

Plus, men suffer from other men's violence even more that women do, so it's not that men are restricted from harming women specifically. It's forbidden for all people to use physical force to make any other human being do what they don't want to do.

The problem is that for any social changes you have to convince people in their necessity. It's not a logical fallacy, it's how our society works.

As I've said, you assume that men are restricted and women are not. But, in fact, everyone is restricted from using physical force to harm others.

Our economies are built on an assumption that they will grow. But for it to grow populations also need to grow and we can't afford it in a long run.

Ah, I've thought you were talking about environmental problems. Overpopulation will become a problem for everyone if our overall population growth doesn't stop. Massive emigration is a thing even now.

I've explained WHY. I never suggested those rights be removed. Call what discrimination? Your strawman?

You've stated that how things were "before" is a good and fair way. Well, it includes women not having major human rights.

I never said they shouldn't I'm saying INCENTIVIZE not force.

How?

I don't give a fuck about your anecdotes

All I'm saying is that although I got lucky and it works for me, I believe that early marriages aren't a good option for most people.

[–]Special-Armadillo-991 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Plus, men suffer from other men's violence even more that women do, so it's not that men are restricted from harming women specifically.

Women specifically had much more to fear than men. Specifically. The law against use of force disproportionately benefits them.

It's forbidden for all people to use physical force to make any other human being do what they don't want to do.

Yes because men decided they wanted to do what's best for society.

How?

I've already explained this. Tax single women at increasingly high rates for every year they are single. Give increasingly high tax cuts for couples who have young children that get higher every year till the kid is 18 where they level off. Stop alimony. Stop no fault divorce. Stop welfare and stop child support.

If you can't support your child then it is taken from you, no welfare. Abortion prices would also be raised to about 10k, so you can't just frivolously abort because of inconvenience.

You've stated that how things were "before" is a good and fair way. Well, it includes women not having major human rights.

Fucking chad isn't a human right. Since gaining the vote women had all the rights men did. I'm not suggesting the removal of any rights.

And it WAS fair in the 50s. Both sexes had to sacrifice their biological advantage for the good of society. Now only men have to sacrifice their advantage and that is not fair by its very definition.

The problem is that for any social changes you have to convince people in their necessity. It's not a logical fallacy, it's how our society works.

It's a logical fallacy to say a plan is wrong or doesn't work because many peeps wouldn't agree. This plan WOULD work to solve the issue of low birth rates.

More married people having sex would mean more children.

As I've said, you assume that men are restricted and women are not. But, in fact, everyone is restricted from using physical force to harm others.

What part of natural advantages don't you understand?

Early marriages might not be the best for every individual but it IS what's best for the society.

[–]NarniaFox1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

The law against use of force disproportionately benefits them.

Taking into account actual statistics, men benefit from these laws more. Plus, violence against others were illegal before women got any rights, so it's not that they always protected them and were created specifically for them.

Yes because men decided they wanted to do what's best for society.

Not "men" as a group, but men with power. It's also partially a result of morals that were forming under religious control and by talented people pushing for changes.

I've already explained this.

So force people economically and not just by physical force.

And it WAS fair in the 50s.

Women couldn't freely choose a career path in 50s because they were seen as worse workers and as future wives and mothers specifically.

And no, being a subservient to your spouse isn't a fair deal at all.

More married people having sex would mean more children.

And that's a bad thing.

What part of natural advantages don't you understand?

A person doesn't have to be stronger than the other in order to inflict physical harm on them. Can you understand this?

Early marriages might not be the best for every individual but it IS what's best for the society.

I really doubt you'd like to move to a country where early marriages area thing.

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So I was watching the belle delphine interview with phillip defranco and belle was talking about her experience as a young teen(like 13-15) hooking up with dudes who were in their 20s and 30s. She said that it was super common for this to happen in the emo/scene culture. Im assuming that a lot of people drawn to that culture have a lot of home issues like being neglected or abused and so it makes them really susceptible to being taken advantage of by an adult because a lot of them are isolated and outcasted.

It was kind of chilling to hear her say words equating to "It was so flattering that cool older guys were into me"

It definitely seems like post-me too though that this is becoming more and more socially unacceptable for adult men to be dating highschool girls. Like to the point of where its not uncommon for people to implicitly or explicitly assert there is not a meaningful difference between an adult being with a 17 year old or a 10 year old. There are many people alive now who in their time it would hardly raise an eyebrow for a 20ish year old guy to be with a 16 year old.

Anyways. How much do you think this has shifted in say the last 10ish years? I know as far as like overal culturally it is wayyyy less acceptable, but I wonder what the actual numbers are.

What do you guys think the percent of 13-17 year old girls dating 22+ year olds in 2010 was compared to in 2021?

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[–]badgersonice1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

"The past" is a lot of time and a lot of space. What's your point?

Mine is that it's not like there's some sad injustice that men today don't get to marry 16 year olds-- they usually didn't "get" to marry them in the past either in European cultures. In Western Europe for most of history, the usual age of marriage for women varied a lot over time, but usually sat somewhere in the range of 17-27 (yes it really was as high as 25-27 in some parts of Europe at some times). But they typically weren't marrying girls off at 13-16 in the West. I suspect it wasn't approved of, but sure, yeah, I don't have any peasant's diaries from the 1700s using the words "creepy" or "gross".

But as a specific example, in the 1600s in England, women were usually at least 19 at marriage, and Elizabethan England viewed marriage and pregnancy before age 16 to be dangerous (which is medically true). They viewed 20 as the earliest reasonable age for first motherhood, and the church set 21 as the youngest age someone could marry without parental permission.

Of course, you can also easily find some fundamentalist Mormon cults who are glad to marry 8 year old girls to 60 year old men. But again, I'm not saying EVERYONE in history always disapproved of young marriage, only that it was clearly not universally approved in "the past" the way so many guys here seem to wish.

[–][deleted]4 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]athrowaway2832222 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]athrowaway2832223 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

She said that it was super common for this to happen in the emo/scene culture. Im assuming that a lot of people drawn to that culture have a lot of home issues like being neglected or abused and so it makes them really susceptible to being taken advantage of by an adult because a lot of them are isolated and outcasted.

This is 100% true.

It was kind of chilling to hear her say words equating to "It was so flattering that cool older guys were into me"

She was groomed and perhaps still holds that harmful mentality. Anyways, that also explains a lot of her questionable content (like... those kidnapping kink pictures... wtf) and desire for social media validation from a certain crowd.

She doesn't realize that it's because those men had something wrong with them to be going for young teens in the first place, and that they probably repelled women their age for good reason (they had to resort to manipulation and power tactics over children/young people who don't know better). For her, it was just about age. I would bet they weren't even good looking, it was the false maturity equivalence with age (but clearly she was a child and not mature) that lured her in. She's not the only one that was fooled but...

Comparatively, kids now are way more educated. Young girls and boys may flirt w/ older ones online at most (especially in the TikTok era lmao where both girls and boys simultaneously look their age and yearsss older), but unless they have terrible influences & home life, the majority know that adults, especially older adults, who are into kids/younger people are creeps.

It definitely seems like post-me too though that this is becoming more and more socially unacceptable for adult men to be dating highschool girls. Like to the point of where its not uncommon for people to implicitly or explicitly assert there is not a meaningful difference between an adult being with a 17 year old or a 10 year old.

You are entirely right. I was in high school this time last year (whoa! crazy to think about), girls weren't dating older men like that. Most high school girls who were dating, were dating high school boys, maybe a grade up or a grade down (there were boys cute enough to pull older) and adults who approached high schoolers are seen as creeps. There was a whole sexual assault assembly organized by our student government my junior year and a few people came out about this one creepy Spanish teacher who explicitly hits on girls. He got fired. I remember lying about my age my senior year the few times I'd get approached by audacious older men by saying I was 17 instead of 18 when they asked because I kind of hated and still hate the fact that at 18 you get "protections" lifted off of you. It still creeps me out when older men (yes, even attractive or "high value" ones) flirt with me or peers.

[–]geyges2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]athrowaway2832221 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

And it will continue to happen despite how culturally progressive we get.

It's becoming a smaller minority, though of course they'll always exist. Just like boys who lose their virginities at 12 because of societal pressure will always exist, and all those stories we hear of female teachers even going after male students (and going to jail usually). Predatory behavior will always exist. Victims will always exist. It's just that if the kids are aware of it and there's emphasis put on the importance of protecting themselves, they'll know to stay away and that the grown people pursuing them are losers. Plus, as a teen or someone who was a teen a year ago, teenagers these days are all really pretty/know how to style themselves and I'd say Gen Z/younger millennials possess nicer appearances generally/care more about their image. At my high school there was plenty of dating... within the high school.

I had chicks in my middle school BRAG about having older boyfriends. Especially the ugly ones that couldn't get a boy their age to pay attention to them.

This is how low self esteem manifests. I heard boys brag about getting attention from older women as well. It's a validation thing.

Now we disposed of that idea, and blame men for being pedophiles instead.

Yes. Adult responsibility on adults.

[–]geyges1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]athrowaway2832222 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I get a feeling claims of victimhood for your own mistakes aren't cool anymore.

I agree. There's a difference between an adult actually harassing/grooming a minor (which is the type of shit that's not okay) and a person complaining/playing victim about something that doesn't actively harm them and that could be stopped, and the fact that they let it go further is kinda their own fault.

That statement actually reminds me of these 2 pretty popular TikToks I saw in the past few days, which both basically went something like this:

Girl A: *complains about a creepy man on social media*

Girl B: "Block him/stop talking to him."

Girl A: "Omg nooo, I don't want to be mean!"

Girl B: *face that looks extremely done with her shit*

And plenty of the comments if not the majority were agreeing. Some were saying they genuinely feel bad blocking, very few were playing "victim", but most were agreeing in this scenario.

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[–]SmurfESmurferson2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I literally said in the post this that it was not

I meant the judging, but fair enough

are you projecting your own dating preferences on them? What it comes across is as “They shouldn’t hang with them, because I wouldn’t”

No. The first thing adult women look at are the girls - their childishness is literally all we see. We don’t see the neonatanous features and slim bodies you like, we see children. We don’t see young adults, we literally see children. And we have a visceral reaction to children being sexualized

What if they were good looking, desirable to you personally, and could get women their age.

I have literally never seen this be the case. At best, they’re good looking guys caught in a “failure to launch” situation who can’t get women their age to take them seriously

More commonly, they’re men who have something wrong with them, which is why they click better with teens than people their own age

They are never fully adjusted attractive-to-adult-women men

Not only that, as they age older and older, more men start to have an issue with their preferences. Especially when you get around my age, and about half the men have teenage daughters

[–]geyges6 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurferson1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

We go from “I seduced him, nobody forced me to do this” to “I’m a victim of abuse by nasty men, that I wouldn’t otherwise fuck in a million years”. It’s revisionist history

Come on, geyges, you understand that idea that people - even grown adults with fully developed brains (which teenagers do not possess) find themselves in situations they later regret. Or can look back on with 20/20 vision and see that there were things going on that they just couldn’t see at the time

Asking teenagers - male or female - to fully understand the differences in psychology, literal brain development, and things like adult responsibilities/concerns isn’t reasonable. These are teens who don’t appreciate what adult life is like, and why teenagers and adults shouldn’t be together

This is the whole point of statutory rape laws - the idea that a teenager can be fully consenting in the moment, but not understand/appreciate the entire situation in the moment

This is also why it should be applied to male and female adults in those situation

women always come up smelling like a rose somehow

No, when you actually have an honest conversation with these women, they don’t think they smell like roses. Many adult women continue to be embarrassed, ashamed, mad at the adult who was involved, etc.

There are exceptions to that, of course, but that seems to be the theme I’ve seen in talking to women who were involved in those relationships as teens

[–]geyges1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurferson1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

EDIT because I think I know where you’re taking this - I do NOT believe adults should be involved in the experimentation phase of teenagers. The adults have had their time to do that with their peers, and they’ve figured things out. That alone is why it’s likely to be exploitative and not ok

Teenagers with teenagers? Yes, groups of teenagers push boundaries. Together. They figure out was is inappropriate and what is appropriate while amongst their peers

would you think it’s a completely normal part of growing up that everyone does and should experience?

Do I think it’s normal? I don’t think it’s abnormal, but I don’t think it’s so normal that everyone is doing it. I actually didn’t experiment with drugs until adulthood, outside of the odd puff of a joint here and there

So, no, not everyone does it

Should everyone experience it? Also no. Teenager can, do, and should push boundaries. But that doesn’t mean drugs for all - it’s going to be a minority that parties like that

Some kids will push boundaries with drugs or alcohol. Others with stealing money from mom’s purse. Others with pushing themselves to study too much

Teenage years are about learning how to keep things in check

Would you be ok with a full grown adult handing out heroin to 15 year olds?

[–]geyges2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]athrowaway2832221 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

a minority

Still a minority, but an even smaller minority.

And these guys generally cannot get women their own age/are losers

This entirely, and this is actually the sentiment I read among one of the more hardcore incel forums online. Some men who are "losers" or sexually unsuccessful flip the switch and become manipulators, but not all of them -- not everyone can stomach dating a kid. Sure, a 15 year old shows up on my feed nowadays because they're feeding these boys something and he looks my age, but I know he's 15. That puts me off, it should put any regular person off whether they're sexually successful or not. I'd date younger men, but they have to not be KIDS, obviously.

Also, it reads creepy to a lot of teenagers nowadays. In fact, there's this one popular TikTok sound lmao where someone says "you a victim" and teenagers put all sorts of situations behind it, like one TikTok was like "when a man tells you he lost his virginity at 12", "when your mom met your dad when she was 16 and he was ____", etc. etc. like kids are super aware.

[–]badgersonice3 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]geyges2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Our legal system

Laws are kind of arbitrary. They're shortcuts to things we can't really define clearly. Such as age of consent. For example I think that age should be closer to 30 for some people rather than 18 or 16, this would be especially useful for women. Their lives are stories of abuse and manipulation at the hands of men. I think we should protect them until they're wise enough.

Why are you so eager to blame a dumb child

We blame dumb children for all kinds of shit, don't we? They get yelled at, and punished all the time for things they do wrong. And btw its was never controversial until very recently to admonish girls for their behavior around older men if that behavior crossed the line. So what I'm saying is that being stupid and making bad choices does not mean being a victim.

In general, yes it is the responsibility of adult to say no. And they do go to jail if they don't.

[–]badgersonice2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

We blame dumb children for all kinds of shit, don't we?

How about quoting the whole sentence for an actual honest argument? I didn't say we shouldn't blame dumb children at all ever for anything ever, now did I? I said "Why are you so eager to blame a dumb child more than a bunch of skeezy adults breaking the law?" Keyword = "more".

Because yeah, we do blame children for being dumb and exercising bad judgment, and we should to a reasonable extent (it's how they learn to do better, for one). But we do not (and should not) hold them more culpable than the adults in the situation. And we certainly should not follow your advice and blame kids instead of the adults present. You specifically asked why she didn't blame herself "INSTEAD OF" calling the guys creeps:

Now you go back and over-analyze shit from 30 years ago, and instead of blaming yourself for being a horny teen, you blame men for being creepy losers? Explain it to me.

So again, why do you think a couple of children hold ALL the responsibility, and adult men have none? Why is applying the word "creep" to a bunch of skeezy guys providing drugs and alcohol to kids such a heinous injustice?

And btw its was never controversial until very recently to admonish girls for their behavior around older men if that behavior crossed the line.

It isn't controversial now either. Parents correct their kids all the time, and kids should be disciplined not to make stupid, reckless life choices, and they should 100% be taught not to hang around with gross creeps.

But you should read more carefully: I didn't say teenagers they shouldn't be admonished or corrected for poor choices or behavior... they should be, in an age appropriate manner. Read better.

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Yea, cuz why was she hanging out with them if they were creepy?

Is it perhaps possible you aren't interpreting her comment exactly correctly? I'm fairly sure (although yeah, I could be wrong also) what she's saying is that she knows now, as a mature adult with adult experiences, that a bunch of adult men hanging out with 13 year olds and plying them with alcohol and drugs is creepy. It is also likely that she didn't have the experience and maturity to recognize their behavior as creepy and looserly as a child.

Why not associate yourself with very pleasant individuals that provide you with drugs and alcohol.

"Creepy" does not mean simply "unpleasant", it means causing an unpleasant feeling of fear or unease-- this is likely what an adult woman is describing now at the recognition that the situation was much creepier than she thought it was as a child. 13 year old girls typically don't fully grasp (or haven't been taught yet) how risky it is to hang out with older men. And they likely haven't fully internalized that lots of men will gladly act nice to her if it means he can fuck her body, regardless of how much it hurts her. 13 year olds are barely done with being little children, and many are naive about men. Shouldn't be surprising.

In addition... please tell me all about the "pleasant" and non-loser adult men you know who spend time with and provide drugs to 13 year old girls? Normal adult men do not think 13 year old girls are interesting, cool, or fun to hang out with, ever-- these guys are either very very strange, or possibly have an ulterior sexual interest in them.

Like, I'm actually really struggling to see how you can envision adult men hanging out with and giving drugs and alcohol to barely pubescent girls as non-creepy, but are eager to claim that all 13 year olds should be able to accurately assess which much older men have their best interests at heart.

[–]geyges1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]badgersonice1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

What's relevant, and what's scary is the age gap. And that's a cultural shift that occurred in the last 20 years or so, and I'm just pointing it out.

I disagree. People in general did not approve of 13 year old girls hanging out with 20+ men in the 90s either. The 90s was the conservative revival, if anything, and it was normal for people to clamp down on teenagers having any potential sexual contact with men-- but even before the 90s, men in their 20s were never believed to be hanging out with 13 year olds, drugs, and alcohol platonically. This kind of interaction was always viewed with deep suspicion by other adults-- it's nothing new.

And parents did not EVER want their daughters hanging out unsupervised with older men, not ever in all of history. Responsible adults have never approved of young women and girls hanging out unsupervised with men who might potentially get them pregnant-- that has always always always been "scary" to adults that men would prey on these young women, even though the kids themselves didn't always get that.

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[–]geyges1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

shame the good judgment of young girls who avoid creepy older guys and suddenly call it “paranoia” now.

You're reading both too much and not enough into what I'm saying.

For one, the context there are older women that blame men for their choice to hang out with them.

Second, whether or not girls have a "good judgement" depends on the circumstances. For instance there's nothing inherently wrong about young girls having crushes on older men; or even hanging out with them... just so long as there's no abuse or manipulation going on.

Now once things like sex, drugs, and alcohol get introduced into the situation, that's the type of situations you want to avoid, but as is manifestly demonstrated, those are exactly the type of situations young women prefer to find themselves in over and over again due to bad judgement.

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Anyone else think women should only swear in the bedroom?

No, I think that women should never swear, anywhere, under any circumstance.

Whenever im talking to a prospect and she says fuck casually im just like

One of the things that has always attracted me to my wife is her habit of using endearing, old-fashioned terms like "darn it". By contrast, I notice that it's been fashionable over the past number of years for educated women of a certain class to use the s-word in particular. I have never figured out exactly what the deal is with this, but it appears that they think employment of the s-word is "sophisticated", "empowering", or something similar.

As far as I'm concerned, when a woman lets the occasional "shit!" escape from her lips, she might as well cover herself in shit, because that's how attractive she's just made herself.

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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1440624/

The neural circuitry for pain in fetuses is immature. More importantly, the developmental processes necessary for the mindful experience of pain are not yet developed. An absence of pain in the fetus does not resolve the question of whether abortion is morally acceptable or should be legal. Nevertheless, proposals to inform women seeking abortions of the potential for pain in fetuses are not supported by evidence. Legal or clinical mandates for interventions to prevent such pain are scientifically unsound and may expose women to inappropriate interventions, risks, and distress. Avoiding a discussion of fetal pain with women requesting abortions is not misguided paternalism21 but a sound policy based on good evidence that fetuses cannot experience pain.

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A fetus very much is the child of his/her parent because the word child describes a relational state, not solely a developmental state. Similarly, you are the child of your parents even though you are (presumably) in an adult developmental state.

Also, a fetus is a live individual human being (member of Homo sapiens sapiens) just as a fertilized chicken egg is a live individual member of Gallus gallus domesticus. Technically (and scientifically), an “egg” ceases to actually be an ovum once it combines with sperm (is fertilized) and gains it’s own full unique genetic code.

In the case of a chicken we still call it an egg (ovum) colloquially because it we cannot tell by looking at it that it’s technically no longer an ovum. In the case of a human being, we call an egg which has been fertilized a zygote because it ceases to be an ovum on conception. The zygote is the first developmental stage of a live individual human being. That live individual human being then develops into a blastocyst (after cell division), then an embryo (after he/she attaches to the uterine wall), and so on.

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You're being obtuse here because it IS a gendered thing. There's an underlying assumption that more women than men know what consent looks like and men are the ones who have a problem with consent.

There's also a problem with women in these situations where they don't speak up because they don't know what to do. There's literal advice that tells women to "take the rape" and not resist in any way, so when a woman gets uncomfortable over a guy being a little too aggressive with his approach, she does nothing except comply and he takes that as consent because she's willingly going along with it.

I'm just not sure why it's on the guy to say "Is this what you want? Are you really wanting to do this?" rather than women speaking up for themselves if they don't want something. Guys can't just be expected to know what women want but also ask women what they want too. Women have some responsibility in this as well, but that's not the general opinion when it comes to consent.

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No it isn't. As stated, I have previously earned far more than my partner and I still ensured equal contribution to household tasks.

The only way to measure equality of two different things is by an objective third party unit of measurement (say dollar value).

If one partner contributes $250,000 of value to a relationship the other could do all the housework and childcare and still be contributing far less to the relationship.

As a I said, your issue isn’t about equality of contribution, it’s about not wanting to have to measure things fairly to ensure equality.

Watching your partner clean is not "spending time together".

Of course it is, unless you are watching over video monitoring of some sort.

I really hope you're single if that's your attitude. What an appalling lack of respect for a partner.

I am married and have contributed high 8 figures worth of value to our relationship over the years. My wife is not actually sweating my relative contribution - though like all women, she has done so irrationally.

When she has done so, I have simply offered to swap roles without complaint and she checks herself before she wrecks herself. I do that because I respect her as my equal.

[–]thelajestic1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]SeemedGood1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It doesn't need to be dollar value - that's a terrible way to value things.

It’s the best way as it objectively counts the value difference between the things on which the time is spent.

Time spent, effort made etc is a far better way to view it.

Is two hours spent folding socks objectively worth more than 15 minutes spent earning $150 that will be used to put a roof over the family’s head and food in the family’s belly? Absolutely not.

How does one then accurately account for the difference in value of the activities undertaken?

Best way is dollar value of the contributions.

If she doesn't already earn a bloated salary for nothing then she's not going to be able to go out and get one tomorrow, so you offering to swap roles is just a way to push her face in the dirt and show how you automatically think you're better than her.

My wife was an investment banker before she stopped working to have children.

But even if she weren’t that has no bearing on the objective value of the comparative efforts.

I get that women are often terrified by the prospect of the objective comparison of their labor efforts because it would often mean that they have no rational basis for complaint. But that doesn’t change the math.

All it changes is that you’d have to recognize that most men dont actually care that you generally put in less objectively measured effort into relationships (we just get tired of your bitching about the effort you do put in) and you’d have to recognize that for the most part your complaints are childish. But I also get that that sort of introspection, objective self observation, and self critique is anathema to most women. Fortunately, my wife was smart enough to get over herself and be rational about things.

[–]thelajestic1 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Is two hours spent folding socks objectively worth more than 15 minutes spent earning $150 that will be used to put a roof over the family’s head and food in the family’s belly? Absolutely not.

Obviously not, because if it takes you two hours to gold socks you need to take a look at yourself.

But if someone in 15 mins starts a load of washing, comforts a crying child, puts a meal on the table - that's worth infinitely more than getting $150 for sitting at a desk for 15 mins.

Your argument keeps coming round to "women don't want to admit to the low value of what they do wah wah wah" completely ignoring the fact that I do not earn less than my partner. I am not coming at this from a perspective of wanting to me more valued for what I do. I am coming from the position of knowing exactly the effort it takes to earn money and the effort it takes to keeps house clean, and I know they are not comparable.

If your wife stopped working to have kids it would be incredibly hard for her to immediately pick that work back up again. Besides which - if she's looking after kids her contribution in terms of time and effort is worth loads more than your dollar value.

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I think its far more likely with rape, because the difference between some rapes and consensual sex can be merely a difference in perception. As in the same set of behaviors could happen and the only difference is the opinion of one person.

People do not routinely engage in behaviors that mimick armed robbery. No one is really out there putting a gun up to someone's head and the other person allows them to snatch their wallet for kicks. Whereas people do routinely engage in consensual sex, which can exactly mimick the behaviors of some """rapes"".

Another factor is that, armed robberies tend to happen between strangers, whereas rape and ""rape"" have a much higher likelyhood of happening between someone you already know, and theres a good chance you will interact with this person even after the alleged events happen. So for example, you could have a relationship or hookup with someone, afterwards find out theyre a douchebag and hate them, and now look back at the relationship in a different light and because of that start retroactively revoking consent to something you actually did consent to. This does not happen with armed robbery or most other crimes I can think of.

There are also many shades of grey inbetween rape and sex. For example, someone may not be enthusiastically into sex that they did infact consent to. Maybe they decided to do it because they felt it was their duty to, or to make the other person happy, or that they just didnt know how to say no. But they didnt say no. And they didnt give any indication that they didnt want it to continue. Maybe she even explicitly said yes. And now she "feels" raped, even though she wasnt. Like if I gave a annoying and pestering homeless man the dollar he was asking for just so he would leave me alone or because I didnt know how to say no. I wasnt robbed.

Theres a difference between "Hey man, can I get a dolla, can I get a dolla? Im homeless man I need to eat bro. Can I get a dolla? Can I get a dolla? You wouldnt leave a homeless man to starve would ya?" And me giving it to him out of convenience

And

"Give me your fucking money or Ill hurt you".

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How much differently do you think, societally, rape would be treated, if no woman had ever been raped, and the amount of male rapes had remained constant?

It seems as though historically, rape as a crime spawned mostly from the idea that it was actually a man who had been damaged, whether it was a man's wife who was raped, or a man's daughter. Because the man either now had a wife who had sex with another man while married to him, and now risked being cucked by this, or now may have a daughter who is pregnant out of wedlock or at the very least not a virgin, heavily reducing her marriage options.

Women and feminists, building upon this foundation, now have elevated rape to "one of the most henious crimes imaginable" some of them arguing even worse than murder.

I believe that without these aformentioned factors, if no woman had ever been raped, societally, rape would likely be seen as not much worse than non-sexual physical battery, especially when you consider the vast majority of men are not raped, and that a large amount of diaologue around rape post feminism had been spearheaded by women, and so I doubt it would be talked much about or acknowledged much at all. Especially when you consider, even despite over 100 years of feminism, and women being raped as much as they are, women would say "we still have so much farther to go". And that is in the context of women being raped. Even to this day, despite all the dialogues, rapes against males are rarely taken seriously, if not openly ridiculed.

Thoughts?

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Or perhaps we don't believe either of them till proof is given. The problem with rape accusations is that women have an inherit bias. They naturally believe women more than men, all other things equal. This makes it very easy for a few unscrupulous women to manipulate and destroy men, because they know the 'sisterhood' will blindly back them up.

This is problematic threefold.

1st is that you're potentially destroying innocent men's lives. Women (as a whole) couldn't give two shits about men so this concern will always fall on deaf ears. Feminists will even go as far as saying that 'all men are complicit' due to patriarchy, rape culture, or other dumb shit. The only time you'll ever see women 'break rank' when it comes to this is when a son or brother is accused...

2nd crying wolf only helps the actual wolves. So women who are actually victimized will find it harder for them. Harder to be believed, harder to find justice, harder to get help, etc...

3rd is that it erodes the justice system. Rape 'shield' laws and all sorts of other nonsense are essentially trying to replace the current judicial system with one that is ideologically biased. All it takes is a cursory glance of history to see how catastrophically bad that idea is.

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Because biologically it is the downhill. Technically, it is downhill from 18-24. (depending on various factors like nutrition, stress, difficulties and whatnot)... but the fact is, after your 20s, you are just aging.

It just takes the age of 30 (or the death of loved ones) to remember that yes, you, I and everyone is slowly dying. And to most of us, it will be a slowly painful and agonizing experience.

Humanity , like our cousins the chimps, has evolved to live to arond 40 at best (39 to chimps in the wild).

Yes technology doubled our life expectancy and a bit more, but our bodies were not made for that. It screams and pains after that. It is wise to be mindful of your mortality at any point. But after 30... well... it is almost inevitably to be any different.

Why would you think anything else, that makes me wonder, what the heck is in your head.

[–][deleted]2 points 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Except a lot of athletes peak in their 30s https://www.theactivetimes.com/why-middle-age-isn-t-past-your-prime it seems ppl who use the biological excuse don’t rly exercise that often.

“The same Swiss team also compared the age-performance curve for males competing in Triple Iron (7-mile swim, 335-mile bike ride, 79-mile run) and Deca Iron (24-mile swim, 1,100-plus-mile bike ride, 262-mile run) ultra-triathlons. The average age of the finishers—since merely finishing these events is performance enough!—was 38 for the Triple and 41 for the Deca.”

Powerlifting peak age is around low 30s: https://students.velocity-pt.co.uk/whats-the-best-age-to-dominate-strength-sports-2/

Google average marathon runner age.

You have 40 year olds completing Triathlons and decathlons. You have 30 year olds hang cleaning 200+ kg. Our bodies are capable of amazing things. Thinking that everything goes downhill after 24 is a complete myth.

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Why do women irrationally complain about housework so much?

Housework is so much easier and relaxing than corporate/professional work. You just put on music or podcast and mindlessly move physical objects. Hours doing housework is not equivalent to hours worked in the workforce.

The only time housework is stressful is when someone is grading your performance e.g. if your spouse is telling you to do the job, she will be nitpicky and critical. But this usually only affects men because men don't complain about women's quality of housework, so women aren't being graded on their housework performance or judged like men are.

It's true that men do less housework. But it's because the men find the house to be clean and satisfactory to their standard. Women have a different standard and complain about it not looking the way they wanted it to look and try to force the men to change their standards to the women's standards.

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Were you ever hurt?

Has anyone ever not been hurt?

You're a bright girl but very cold.

I'm less cold to people that know me. My partner likes putting sweet messages in cards because he thinks it's adorable how easily I cry at them. I would agree with nihilism though - life is meaningless. I was raised by a militant atheist though so that's probs where that came from. Regardless of how meaningless life in general is though, I have love for the people in my life. My own life has meaning to me, and the people I know have meaning to me. I don't want anyone to have a bad life; I want everyone to have the luxury of choosing their purpose.

I want mythos, an origin story, a moral compass, a culture, a human existence outside the materialism of Capitalism or Marxism...I want to love a woman enough that I would gladly give her my jacket, pick her up bride-style and carry her over the puddle (and feel her bum in the process). I want to express human emotion without people requiring me to prove it even exists with some scientific study. Everyone has turned into Ben fucking Shapiro.

Well, I don't see why you can't have that (aside from the capitalist bit as I don't think there's any escaping that for the time being).

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I waited tables for about five years before I started working retail. My customer service for my waitressing customers was 100x better than for my retail customers precisely because I knew better service=better tips. If I'm gonna make $8/hr either way I'm going to do the bare minimum to not get fired. I'm not going to go above and beyond like I would when waiting tables.

That said, I do agree you're not entitled to it. But I guess what I'm saying is I'm not sure people realize how bad restaurant service would be if that incentive wasn't there.

There were times as a server where I didn't get a tip and thought "Yeah, that's fair" or times when I comped a table's food and paid for it myself voluntarily because I felt bad about the service I gave them. There are also times when I was tipped generously for subpar service. So it mostly evens out. The times I got mad were when I did bust my ass for a table and they didn't leave me anything, or when a huge table took up my section for hours (meaning I couldn't serve any other customers during that time) and they waived the gratuity and then left me a paltry tip. Or the times when I was explicitly not tipped because the customer didn't like the food, which I as a server have no control over. Like yeah, I'm not entitled to it, I'm not going to sue, but you can't help but be grumpy if you work hard and do an objectively good job and don't get compensated for it, or get docked for someone else's mistake.

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Yeah I don't really get this. If my section seats 25, that's 25 customers. Doesn't matter the number of tables or how many are sitting at which table. One six top isn't inherently more difficult than three two tops. The reason they're charged gratuity isn't because they make you work harder, it's because they're taking up multiple tables that could have seated other customers. So if a 10 top only tips me 10 bucks that's screwing me out of a lot of money I could have made turning over smaller tables.

How hard I work a table depends on how difficult that particular table is, not how many customers are seated there. Honestly my favorite and easiest nights serving were nights where I got to work a big table of 20ish people all night long.

Ultimately I think servers have different tastes. I always liked building rapport with a big rowdy table and I found it easier to keep up with than a bunch of little tables. I would often trade with other servers who preferred to turn over little tables all night instead.

I do think big tables are harder for cooks and bartenders, but not necessarily for servers.

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Weekly Community Chat Megathread

Comments

TLDR:

Title	Weekly Community Chat Megathread
Author	AutoModerator
Upvotes	13
Comments	3470
Date	February 8, 2021 9:00 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/lflpna/weekly_community_chat_megathread/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/weekly-community-chat-megathread.740347 https://theredarchive.com/post/740347