It’s a numbers game for men, but women don’t want to be treated like numbers?

CliffPR · 2022-06-17T22:38:25+00:00

Pretty much. Just like every job you interview for wants to be the only place you applied despite how ridiculous it would be to job hunt that way.

neetykeeno · 2022-06-17T22:34:07+00:00

Well...duh. Guys also do not like it when they see the girl they had a first date with on Friday is out with a different guy on Saturday.

What should you do? The thing I always recommend. Widen your social circles. Have a lot of women present in that social space that is not quite a friend but quite well known to each other and on friendly terms. That way the numbers game occurs largely in a context in which it is less likely to cause offence.

WOPR-1983 · 2022-06-17T22:21:15+00:00

One great philosopher said "Everybody wants a box of chocolates and a long stemmed rose..."

We all know women abhor the "netflix and chill" one liner, but do they really expect personalized prose from all 1,000 contenders, 990 of which will be swiped away based on looks alone?

It's only sensible for men to start investing time once he thinks he's passed the swipe test. Wasting time prior to that is kind of senseless - especially if you actually have a life and can't spend 4 hours a day on your phone trying to meet someone.

melody_of_ · 2022-06-17T22:32:43+00:00

The trick is to play the numbers game while still not making the women you talk to feel like numbers 😉.

In a world where the burden of approach was more evenly split between the genders this wouldnt occur. But we live on earth.

2022-06-17T22:16:41+00:00

It's not controversial, get away from pill people, the majority know that exclusivity is confirmed, not assumed.

PlayfulLawyer · 2022-06-17T22:17:45+00:00

What you're supposed to do is not care. Yeah, you'll get labeled a "creep" by some. Others might respect your attempt. There are ~4 billion women on this planet with ~4 billion different minds/opinions/ thoughts.

Aramuis · 2022-06-18T00:57:53+00:00

There's a nuance to "it's a numbers game for men" that I don't see anyone touching on.

The general concept isn't wrong, it's how most of us adapt our behaviour that's wrong and quite frankly, leads to more failure.

I learned in marketing that trying to appeal to everyone is the worst strategy possible. At best, people are lukewarm about your product. The true marketing strategy it to find your niche. The subset of people your product appeals to, that's why companies spend literal millions figuring out their target market.

Cast a wide net on the fish that like your bait. Assuming every fish has the same taste just makes you a shitty fisherman.

ExpressBat45 · 2022-06-17T22:18:27+00:00

Y'all cast a wide net just to be rejected most of the time anyway. When women find that out, they get turned off. It comes off as desperate and like you're unwanted by other women. No wants to be with the guy that asks literally EVERYONE out or flirts with EVERYONE.

I think you'd do better as long as you stay away from groups of women who know or are friends with each other. If you're going to ask out 1 of them, don't go around asking out others. That's like casting out bait just to see who bites.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2022-06-17T22:23:01+00:00

She might be the 50th girl you approached but she’s the first Karen you met tonight that has really pretty eyes and likes to talk anime with you.
She can be the 4th girl you danced with tonight, but she’s the only one that’s got a great rhythm and is a great dancer. She might be the last person you talk to in the way out, but you saw her and her dress is so pretty and she’s so interesting, you are glad you didn’t leave early cause right now she’s might as well be the only person in the room because your attention is all right there.

It doesn’t matter who you approached before or who you might be approaching next. What’s matters is who she is right now, and what drew you to her.
If, in that moment, being in that moment it’s all about just you and her: Then everything should be just fine.

badgersonice · 2022-06-18T00:21:19+00:00

By the problem is, women don’t like this.

Men don’t like this either. See every man who claims he doesn’t want to marry a slut who’s banged half the town. Men want to feel special, like he’s the only (or at least one of the very elite few) man she’s ever fucked.

Women want the same: to feel like she’s not just another slab of meat he’s fucked.

So if women get pissed that we navigate dating in the only way we can, how are we supposed to do it.

By being more strategic in who you ask out, instead of just spooging interest all over every woman as if you don’t care who you get. Ask out women who put out feelers or indicators of interest; feel out women who might plausibly be interested through social circles or mutual interests; make genuine connections to people rather than spamming “hey, wanna fuck me” at every female on OLD between ages 18 and 40 within a 50 mile radius; have a type and go for those women; stop acting so totally desperate that you treat any female in the vicinity like she’s a bowl of dog kibble and you haven’t eaten in a year; not bitterly whining that women only date the top 2% Chads when your uncaring generic “hi please date me but I don’t care who you are” attempts don’t turn into hot bitches ripping off your clothes in an alleyway.

It’s like job hunting. If you spray your generic resume at every job on linked in, most of them will throw your resume in the trash. Everyone knows the best way to get a job is to have a connection to the place through people or, if you don’t have that at all, at least have a really solid, tailored application that matches the job closely.

catniagara · 2022-06-18T01:39:36+00:00

Awkward people with no game get no play regardless of gender.

Honestly this pretty much sums up my experiences of trying to teach my friends how to flirt and wondering why they couldn’t “pull” the guys who liked me: https://youtu.be/zMyG-MSlJHU

I can tell you with certainty that “casting a wide net” lowers anyone’s value. Anyone of any gender. The lower your value was to begin with, the stronger this effect. If I’m in a room full of models and a guy is my 4th choice, maybe he’ll forgive me. If I’m in a room full of 50 guys and any guy is my 50th choice, he’ll tell me to fuck right off.

Pretty soon you’re “that weird creep who hits of everybody all the time” or “that crazy desperate girl who constantly begs guys to get with her”

You’re reducing your own worth and complaining that you don’t get any play. Might as well wear a toilet seat for a hat and complain that everyone is shitting on you.

90% of guys aren’t interested in me, and it’s pretty easy to target the ones who are, so I pretty much never get rejected. Is he looking at me or avoiding eye contact? Is he avoiding eye contact in a “praying she doesn’t talk to me” way or a “oh shit did I just look at her boobs? Oh crap I did it again!” Way? Does he have obvious signs of being unavailable or unsuitable, like a swastika neck tattoo (although I did date a guy like that once, long story) or a wedding ring? Is he rude to the other women around me? How does he treat the waitresses?

But I think the most important thing you can do is once you have someone on the hook and you like them for the love of god in heaven shut up. Don’t say anything stupid. Don’t reveal your most intimate personal details. Do not chew your nails or pick your nose or say you need to go soon because your mom is coming to pick you up or talk about your plaid rock collection.

If you are already one foot into someone’s life, try not to talk your way out of it with some really stupid comment. Examples abound but here are examples I’ve heard from my friends..:this week 😭

You’re really hot for your age.

Wow I thought you would be dumb.

Have you heard of (insert random cult-followed media nobody has heard of here, extra points if it turns out to be super hateful and misogynistic)

Honestly I wanted to hit on your friend but I’m glad I gave you a chance.

🤦🏽‍♀️🤡

toasterchild · 2022-06-17T22:43:06+00:00

You get what you look for. Cast a wide net and you might find someone eventually, chances are it will be someone sort of dumb. Some guys are into that, I don't get it.

Barneysparky · 2022-06-17T22:58:01+00:00

Most guys hang out, meet a gal, have a great conversation (this can happen on line), connect with each other then hang out and share bodily fluids.

When you can connect and have mutual attraction build, numbers are meaningless.

Unless your aim in dating is to make your N count higher to impress, yourself?

midwesternMD · 2022-06-17T23:01:09+00:00

Man here. Two solutions.

1) if she’s remotely interesting, have a fairly generic but someone customized initial message. Or in the world of swipe based dating apps, only think about messaging after you’ve matched.

2) be more selective on who you swipe right on. Will your match rate go down? Absolutely. But the matches you do get end up being more compelling and more likely to be worthwhile women to meet.

You can treat dating as a numbers game without making it clear to the other party that you’re treating it as a numbers game. Because at the end of the day, everyone knows that it’s a numbers game. People just fantasize about picking a winning lottery ticket on the first try.

ChibsFilipTelfordd · 2022-06-17T23:25:49+00:00

Pretty decent observation, it's a numbers game for men but women want to feel special. Hence -- play the God damn game and don't be an idiot. Don't bandy about the fact that you've made out with 3 other girls that night when you get her number. Make her feel special. Then if she IS special then you don't have to be lying bc you'll want to keep seeing her. If she's not, no skin of your back, you can leave

fakingandnotmakingit · 2022-06-17T22:33:14+00:00

You know that you can play the numbers game while treating women like people right?

Swipe/ set up x amount of dates that week. Whatever.

But when you're with her, you're with her. Don't talk about or discuss other women. Talk to her about mutual interests, see if there's a vibe.

Oh look! You've managed both cast a wide net and treated her like a person.

And if you guys agree to a second and third date, then you exclusivity or whatever

IrrungenWirrungen · 2022-06-17T22:57:41+00:00

What a lot of RedPillers don’t get is that while women like men who are wanted by other women, they also want those men to have standards. Else it wouldn’t make any sense.

That’s why their assumption that men who sleep around are like ‘master keys’ is wrong. If you don’t value yourself enough and just take anything you can get it’s very off putting.

Coolio_Street_Racer · 2022-06-17T22:32:41+00:00

The would work. But most not all women like when you treat them as a disposable number. Unfortunate reality.

Ohms2North · 2022-06-17T22:15:48+00:00

[permanently deleted]

TotalTravesty · 2022-06-17T22:20:41+00:00

I really don’t understand how it’s so hard not to treat people like a number.

Think about it: would you accept if a woman you went out with made it known, either directly or indirectly, that you’re just one of several guys she’s seeing that week? No? Of course not. But you are. How do you think she conceals it?

Time_Animaal · 2022-06-17T23:10:25+00:00

Women innately understand that Chad treats them like a number, it's one of their biggest fears, so they desire that he doesn't.

If a non-Chad treats them like a number it's extremely uncomfortable for them because it upsets their understanding of their place in the pecking order.

flapperfemmefatale · 2022-06-17T22:23:15+00:00

Stick with women who are cool with being treated that way...? Either you care about quantity, or quality. That's your choice. But whatever you choose is going to affect what type of woman you attract.

Don't go for quantity and then whine when she does the same.

vanillabeanbby · 2022-06-17T22:24:34+00:00

I think the idea that men “cast a wide net” when it comes to dating is a farce This is done for the purposes of casual sex not actual dating This is why you find it hard not to treat humans like numbers because that’s all you see them as in actuality

Slight_Fig5187 · 2022-06-17T23:05:24+00:00

How you define "success"? If it's finding a meaningful relationship, then both men and women have to go through a process of trial and error, typically in their youth or after divorce or separation. They might be having dates with several people till they find a suitable one.

If you mean accumulating hook ups and casual sex, that's not really a need most women have, so you're trying to obtain something the other part is not willing to give you.

Ohms2North · 2022-06-17T23:08:16+00:00

Why do you care? Just don’t tell everyone what you’re doing and let each woman think she’s the special snowflake

2022-06-18T01:35:41+00:00

It’s an interesting proposition is all I know. Women don’t want to feel like a number, but the fact that my grown ass is in your face means every attempt I’ve made to have a relationship in my life didn’t work out, which has led me to you.

revente · 2022-06-18T06:24:49+00:00

Disagreed.

Women hate men who treat them like they're their only option.

It's much better to act like you're dating around:

Cheap coffee 1st date.

Escalate with idgaf attitude and invite her to your place early.

Act aloof and don't reply immediately.

etc

TermAggravating8043 · 2022-06-18T07:38:01+00:00

Stop thinking of dating as a game you need to win.

TP_Crisis_2020 · 2022-06-19T08:30:39+00:00

So if women get pissed that we navigate dating in the only way we can, how are we supposed to do it.

You just don't do it.

trippingfingers · 2022-06-17T22:23:28+00:00

or the vast majority of men, since we are not wanted enough to be pursued, so we need to cast out a wide net.

I have a hard time with this premise. I have no doubt that some men experience. I have no doubt that in some cultures this may be true, but from personal experience I see more women pursuing men than men pursuing women.

2022-06-18T00:21:40+00:00

Cultivate and maintain a social sphere so you have people to go out and do things with. Women are more comfortable talking to men who have friends than they are the odd loner.

Social proof is a real phenomenon. If others like you, that means you’re likable. And a social circle means people to hold you accountable for your actions.

AelfredRex · 2022-06-17T23:15:48+00:00

Stop being shallow. Stop being desperate. Get a personality. You can do that for free.

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PMmeareasontolive · 2022-06-17T23:26:53+00:00

When is this a problem though? Are you literally going from woman to woman in a bar? (I admire you and I'd like to see that if you do). I have sort of experienced it when I had a long message period before meeting and it started to get heavily flirty, then she asked why my profile was still active when we were talking about intimate stuff. I don't mind waiting, but I can't just not be out there. The person I'm looking for comes along once in a year maybe two years, maybe three. I gotta make sure she sees me. If we actually met in person and got something going, then I'd take the shit down. Girls don't like that. Lesson is it's better to meet at least for coffee early on.

Flintblood · 2022-06-17T23:55:35+00:00

The average woman, assuming average means she doesn’t have a body like Jabba the Hutt, can monkey branch or leave one situation and have another guy on her doorstep a few days later if she is aware and social. Most average guys on the other hand may take months or maybe even a year or so to find someone new unless they are actively pursuing multiple women on OLD.

Returnofthemack3 · 2022-06-18T00:47:35+00:00

Yep and women always say , ' but not all women are like that !', which may be true, but how do you know off the bat? Well you don't, so you treat every gun as loaded. Men can't afford to focus on one person until that person has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt they're real. Don't listen to what women say really

odd_cloud · 2022-06-18T01:55:29+00:00

Quite a catch-22, I agree. I can explain it is that guys fall into two categories for women: relationships guys and entertainment guys. Entertainment guys quickly get casual sex like those athletes you mentioned somewhere. Relationships guys are meant to wait for several months, treat women well and be overall good boys. So, I think you fall into this category but try to behave like an entertainment guy, which of course, contradicts to expectations from you. It’s reserved for you to meet you oneitis, whom you will feel exceptional feelings to.

The only way I can resolve the contradictions like this is by assuming existence of two groups of men. It’s the same with the befriending women before dating: one crowd says friends first, and the second one says be direct. I’d say that if you are attractive, be direct, but if you are not, try to be friends first.

WorldController · 2022-06-18T02:12:07+00:00

I get why they feel this is offensive

It is likewise offensive—and extremely difficult to not take personally—when men are rejected for things including their looks, personality, social tact, occupation, net worth, etc.

M_LaSalle · 2022-06-18T02:26:37+00:00

By the problem is, women don’t like this.

It isn't that they don't like what the guy does. They don't like who he is, an unattractive man. For attractive men it isn't a numbers game. If they pursue more than one woman, then the women may not like it, but it doesn't matter as much because he's attractive.

Bekiala · 2022-06-18T02:41:31+00:00

"It’s a numbers game for men, but women don’t want to be treated like numbers?"

That is a really good way to put the situation.

No_Fan6078 · 2022-06-18T03:23:02+00:00

well that is not like your are going to break a world record lol

RRBeachFG2 · 2022-06-18T03:37:42+00:00

"4 billion different minds/opinions/ thoughts"

all the unique snowflakes out there are totally not a hive mind

richardparadox163 · 2022-06-18T04:54:15+00:00

Yeah it’s one of those “chivalry is dead and women killed it” things. Women fought to deregulate the sexual/dating marketplace during the Sexual Revolution and Third Wave feminism, which is fine, it is what it is, but the necessary consequence of that was the end of courtship and the commodification of dating (just like when you deregulate any marketplace, stock market, labor market, etc. markets become hyperefficient often in dehumanizing ways). Putting effort into courting a woman, buying flowers and chocolates for a first date, writing love songs/poems in the beginning of courtship, make sense when she’s a virgin (or close to it), she’s not seeing anyone else or few other people, and it’s implied that you are seeking her hand in marriage eventually. Furthermore, when you are culturally required to put in that effort to get the time of day much less sex after or right before marriage, as men we do what we have to do. In economic terms the value of 🐱 was artificially held up by rationing/price controls from religion/social norms. Once those were removed, it became a race to the bottom, for all the reasons you listed.

Who is going to buy flowers and chocolates and pay for dinner and write poems back and forth for a month when another girl is willing to give it up after 40 minutes of Netflix and chill and a bowl of Cheetos. Who is going to buy flowers and do the most for a girl who possibly/likely has a rotation of guys she’s talking to and sleeping with, and has slept with guys whose names she doesn’t remember while you’re the chump bringing her flowers Furthermore, even if you wanted to do all that stuff, it now becomes a red flag and a sign of desperation and a lack of social awareness or manipulation since if you had options there wouldn’t be a reason for you to put in all that effort (girls are aware of the state of the dating market), hence why the word “lovebombing” gets thrown around by girls these days. Which should tell you all you need to know about the level of effort expected in the dating market even if women “complain” about the lack of effort.

House-MDMA · 2022-06-18T05:31:18+00:00

Why do you even care what these women think at all think of it in the grand scheme of things in 3 years will it matter at all what a woman your not dating thinks about your approach. No it shouldn't so why would you alter your approach and self handicap yourself by carring what a couple female npcs in your life story thinks about.

daproest1 · 2022-06-18T05:53:29+00:00

They also say they don’t want to be treated like property. But will literally leave and marry another guy if you’re not ready to get married and she is. Fucking real estate. “Better sign this contract or someone else will!”. Whereas a guy will patiently wait if a woman isn’t ready to get married and he is.

So don’t worry about what women wanna be treated as. They make no sense. Worry about what you want. They don’t worry about what men want anyway.

Fragmented79 · 2022-06-18T09:24:34+00:00

And it really sucks when you finally get a date that goes well after not having any dates in a good while, then getting ghosted. If I’m lucky, I might get another match in a few months. And if I’m super lucky, that match was not a bot or accidental right swipe. If I’m even super luckier (almost power ball winning odds), that match might turn into an actual date. Going to meetup groups or adult education classes in hopes of meeting women is frowned upon as is “cold approach”. The average man can’t really use the numbers game using OLD alone (especially with results like mine). Like so many other men, I’ve given up because the competition is just too much and we’re all so disposable to one another. Modern dating is broken beyond repair thanks to hookup culture, social media fueled narcissism, and extreme decadence. I focus on my hobbies and traveling instead.

greyboy_32 · 2022-06-18T09:38:49+00:00

Your problem is caring what these or any women think about your dating strategy. Simply find a way to cast your net wide without making it obvious to each individual woman. Stop trying to get their approval.

Shaiziin · 2022-06-18T11:29:21+00:00

I'm a woman navigating OLD. I cast a wide net myself because people take forever to reply or don't reply at all. Is it not normal for both sexes to do this?

Zevluvxxx · 2022-06-18T11:58:17+00:00

Dude almost zero percent of men are openly pursued by women. Like you have to be so uniquely attractive for that to happen it’s basically unheard of due to societal standards making women less prone to being the pursuer.

2022-06-18T12:27:38+00:00

By the problem is, women don’t like this.

How is this a problem lmao

roguish_rogue · 2022-06-18T13:44:37+00:00

I used to keep it pretty low effort, not because I am lazy but because it seemed to get better results. Guys dont make the rules, we just play the game.

You should not concern yourself with how women generally feel about these things, not your responsibility.

feminologie_ · 2022-06-18T15:34:28+00:00

I think a man should have a rough idea of the kind of woman he is looking for, and focus on pursuing only that particular type of woman. Men who chase after every woman just because she is female and has pulse, are not attractive. They come across as people who have low standards and will settle for anything. No woman wants to be settled for. A woman wants to be chosen for reasons that are unique to her, not because she has a vagina.

I am selective about men because I don't want just any man. I want someone who I'm attracted to, who is compatible with me, who I respect, who is kind, self disciplined, emotionally intelligent, and respects women. Just having those handful of standards eliminates a huge chunk of men.

For example If I met a promiscuous womanizer type of guy, I wouldn't* date him because I know he is lacking in self discipline (his life is ruled by his sexual urges) and he likely doesn't respect women (due to his long history of pumps and dumps). Similarly, if I met a guy who doesn't have a job and isn't ambitious, I wouldn't date him because I can't respect someone who has no goals in life and one of my requirements is to be able to respect the man I'm in a relationship with. If I met a guy who is mean, selfish or has anger issues, I wouldn't date him because I know he'll probably treat me badly in a relationship.

By narrowing down what kind of man I want, I can avoid starting relationships with men who don't fit my criteria because I would not be happy with them anyway. My end goal is to be in a fulfilling, satisfying relationship with someone I respect and genuinely enjoy being around. I understand that having these standards means I have to be single for extended periods of time, but I'm okay with that. In my opinion being single is preferable than an unfulfilling relationship with a man I don't want/like/respect.

I think men should evaluate what they actually want in a woman (beyond sex) and be selective too. Chasing after every woman is a waste of time because even if you get a random girl, she will likely be incompatible with you because you didn't have any standards to evaluate her by. I think men are doing themselves a disservice by being extremely thirsty. You have to be able to walk away from what you want in the short term, in order to find what you need in the long term. Wasting your time with women who are not right for you out of desperation is keeping you from meeting the woman you would actually want to spend your life with.

Machinecrash · 2022-06-18T16:29:18+00:00

Why do you care whether women like it or not? You can do what you want to do and they can do what they want to do.

2022-06-18T17:14:41+00:00

Women really can’t complain about this stuff - rejecting a male is in effect subtly telling him there is no reason his genetics should survive another generation, it’s harsh but we don’t complain, the burden of approach / rejection / humiliation is on men. The ratio of men versus women who managed to reproduce is like 5:9. Even the reproductive act indicates that we evolved in such a way as men had to scatter as many seeds as possible and women had to be careful to choose the best seed - millions of sperm cells per ejaculation fertilise just one or two female eggs. Women are plenty able to juggle options - their problem is there are too many options and they have to sift out the best ones, it’s interesting they don’t like when men have options but they insist they wait in line for rejection. Men need to take the power back here - most men can’t afford not to avail of all viable options. That’s equality.

decoy88 · 2022-06-18T20:10:22+00:00

We keep playing the numbers.

Women are uncomfortable with that notion? Tough shit. Go out and approach men then, pretty soon that woman will find herself “playing the numbers game”.

ObviouslyAnAltAct · 2022-06-18T20:13:36+00:00

...just do it anyway? You'll never get anywhere waiting for women to make the first move unless you're an absolutely gorgeous man. Who cares if women don't like it. You gotta do what you gotta do to find a partner. If that means you are forced to play the numbers game, then that's what you gotta do. If you think women are waiting around for you, you'll die alone. Live your life in a way that maximizes your benefit, even if it makes other people unhappy. As long as you aren't hurting them and they're just being overly emotional despite your hardships then forget what they want.

MightBeStrangers · 2022-06-18T20:41:12+00:00

They also get upset, especially when in a relationship, if you mention that any pussy will do. They want to feel special. A numbers game implies she isn’t special. Well, the reality is that it doesn’t have to be her pussy. We just need ANY pussy to fuck and cum in. We’d prefer it is was hers, but it doesn’t have to be hers. It’s a similar train of through as to why they get upset when we masturbate and watch porn.

Title	It’s a numbers game for men, but women don’t want to be treated like numbers?
Author	kingifshortkings
Upvotes	138
Comments	328
Date	June 17, 2022 10:07 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/vere48/its_a_numbers_game_for_men_but_women_dont_want_to/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/its-a-numbers-game-for-men-but-women-dont-want-to.1121059 https://theredarchive.com/post/1121059

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