Do women have their own version of “self improvement”?

northernlights190 · 2022-12-25T17:29:27+00:00

Absolutely. I mean, there are entire industries devoted to this.

It’s largely all the same stuff as you listed: working out, improving nutrition, losing weight if you need to, getting fit, dressing better, getting a better hairstyle and grooming, learning how to do better makeup and hair, improving their mental health, improving their overall lifestyle, learning how to be more social and confident, getting involved in new activities and building healthier social networks. It may also include medical cosmetic improvements.

Personally, just in the last few years I’ve invested a lot in all of those things except weight loss (not relevant for me), with an eye to improving my overall well-being and also to appearing more feminine and attractive. And yes, it’s done wonders in terms of my luck with men.

I’ll be honest, questions like this make me realize many men really don’t understand how women experience life.

Just like you, we grow up surrounded by messaging on how to improve ourselves. When I was a teen, it was the several monthly magazines we religiously read, of which most of the content was “How to dress for your body shape!” “How to get fit in 30 days!” “How to flirt with your crush!”

Now that content has moved mostly online, where it’s constantly marketed to us and pushed to us by social media (a massive segment of the IG influencer phenomenon is basically just selling to women how to be better women), and we also seek it out on the regular.

I mean, most of the reason I’m on Reddit is to keep up with women-majority fitness, hair, makeup, and activity / hobby subreddits to learn how to do all that stuff better.

SwimmingTheme3736 · 2022-12-25T20:06:54+00:00

This can’t be a serious question

There is a whole industry about women improving their looks.

CimZim · 2022-12-25T17:19:01+00:00

Book stores have entire 8 foot long sections of "self improvement" books that focus on primarily women.

Willow-girl · 2022-12-25T23:12:29+00:00

Weight loss, exercise, plastic surgery, implants, shapewear, hairstyling, extensions, makeup, Botox, fake lashes, laser hair removal, mani/pedicures, skin care regimens, perfume, fashion ... the list goes on and on.

Safinated · 2022-12-25T19:12:03+00:00

of course not. Women never do things like use cosmetics, get educations, improve their job situation, seek therapy, buy books, look up advice and instructonal media or have role models

womandatory · 2022-12-25T22:15:42+00:00

Women are told from the time they are children that they aren’t enough. Why do you think the makeup and beauty industries exist??

gate18 · 2022-12-25T23:19:15+00:00

Technically theirs is even more obvious. And even more toxic (but only to themselves) the fact that you have to ask this question means that what women do to "improve" is seen as natural.

good physique - check. Many to the point of unhealthy skinny.
dressing better - check. To the point that even to go to the shops they might dress up.
taking better care of his hygiene - check. To the point that they carry shit with them in their handbags.
getting a haircut - check. To the point that they burn their hair with paints and straighteners.

would she follow a self-improvement routine to increase her chances, just like men do?

Some women and men do, and others don't.

Barneysparky · 2022-12-25T17:12:47+00:00

Go to a bookstore. Ask for the self-help section. Take your pick.

Becoming a person who is content and happy with their life draws others in, instead of repelling them.

social_mule · 2022-12-25T17:42:19+00:00

Yes. It's called "self improvement".

Self improvement isn't a gendered thing.

gagalinabee · 2022-12-26T00:56:25+00:00

I love this sub because reading posts here feels like I’m seeing aliens observe people who haven’t yet found out that both men and women are the same species and have mostly the same human behaviours. Very sci fi

alexxx_starlet · 2022-12-25T17:34:52+00:00

I believe that women are their harshest self critics and are constantly trying to improve themselves. For me personally, I know I need to work out more and try to go out more in order to meet men while not coming across as needy or aggressive.

januaryphilosopher · 2022-12-25T18:00:56+00:00

Of course they do. But they're expected to do it regardless of the attention they're getting. They can always be better. There's just more pressure when they aren't doing well, but in general the pressure is on a level that men almost never feel.

chingness · 2022-12-25T17:23:38+00:00

What a question?! Honestly do you ever engage with the real world at all? There’s so many self help books aimed at women, relationship coaches for women, advice columns, groups etc etc. There’s the old cliché of women getting a drastic makeover post break up (or in teen movies to go from geek to beauty). Beauty magazines and influencers targeting women who are unhappy with themselves.

I am not saying life is easy for men but posts like this make me incredulous that you can’t see the real world at all, specifically when it comes to women.

juicyjuicery · 2022-12-25T22:19:19+00:00

Go to any self help section in any book store. It’s largely advice geared toward women.

Know who more often goes to therapy? Women.

Duh. We were into self improvement long before men started realizing they can no longer purchase brides like their granddad’s did.

LupeDyCazari · 2022-12-25T21:11:59+00:00

....they spend fortunes in make-up and clothes and perfume and on their hair and teeth. You think they are doing that what for? To make grandmother happy?

wanna_fight_bout_it · 2022-12-25T17:46:39+00:00

I didn’t realize self improvement was gendered.

dumbbitchcas · 2022-12-25T18:03:36+00:00

Women get the same advice/ do the same things. They work out, they go to therapy, or often they just quit on dating and focus on their friendships and themselves

RocinanteCoffee · 2022-12-25T18:10:38+00:00

Some definitely do. Particularly after a breakup but not necessarily with any particular firestarter.

Sometimes though it's not about 'getting the attention of more men' so much as self-care.

Changing food habits, working out, trying a new skincare routine, focusing on career, focusing on studies, spending more time with friends, networking, counseling/therapy, finding clothing that flatters their body shape et al.

Assuming they aren’t horrifically ugly or obese, is there anything lonely single women can do to increase their chances of being noticed and approached by men?

A new hairstyle, new shoes, new hobbies, taking initiative more, it looks very similar to what men do, aside from the fact that a much higher percentage of women will play with makeup styles/techniques compared to men.

ass-thetics · 2022-12-25T17:37:29+00:00

Self preservation.

H20man1 · 2022-12-25T19:54:12+00:00

Yes, but it's not actually enforced by other women or anyone for that matter. Sure there are magazines and IGs that show models and such but that's true for men as well. With men, self improvement is harshly enforced. Even within a group of friends a guy who is quite overweight is going to get clowned on quite a bit for his weight in alot of male circles. God help him if he says something along the lines of "I'm beautiful the way I am or I am a perfect 10" lol. This is something that is not present in female circles and a woman will often be comisserated on her struggles and be told men are the problem. Not saying it has to be as harshly communicated as that but something that points to accountability and the only common denominator being her.

2022-12-25T21:34:37+00:00

Weight loss/gain, exercise, fashion, makeup, therapy are all common things women do for "self improvement."

Oli_love90 · 2022-12-25T23:34:52+00:00

I mean of course, we’re humans. But it’s not always lack of success with men that initiates the need for self improvement.

Im working out to look better in clothes because I like to dress well and gained weight over the last few years. I’ve already accepted I’ll never date again and never want to engage with anyone sexually. It’s my own internal need that drives me more than any external factor.

GrizzleGuts30 · 2022-12-26T02:34:11+00:00

The only self-improvement for women is the beauty industry. Things like makeup and clothing.

Women aren’t taught how to improve their basic bitch personality, how to effectively communicate or how to pick good men.

The only barriers to entry for dating and sex as a woman is to be of a somewhat healthy BMI - hell, even chubby women can get laid easily.

Academic_Snow_7680 · 2022-12-26T02:44:46+00:00

Points to beauty industry.

Women are also much more likely to go take a course to learn a new thing.

_demidevil_ · 2022-12-25T19:54:24+00:00

Erm yes, it’s kind of something that’s held us hostage for years… we are quite pissed off about it! I’m surprised you didn’t notice. If you genuinely don’t realise that you might want to do a bit more research on feminism and gender politics.

MDFornia · 2022-12-25T21:38:21+00:00

I think the mainstream, conventional advice given to struggling men is to work on themselves, whereas the conventional advice given to struggling women is...well it's not advice. It's affirmation. That they're beautiful just the way they are, they're the victim and it's others that are wronging them, they shouldn't have to do XY or Z, etc, and it often just ends there.

That said, there is a slice of the woman population that devours self-help media -to the extent that I would say books targeting them dominate the shelves in the self-help section of any bookstore. There's also many gray areas, like Oprah and that ilk. Mostly entertainment but also attempts to sell the potential for a better self. I'd throw many influencers into this gray area category.

Finally, I hold the common opinion that dudes are generally expected to be providers, and are assessed as such. Men want to be great providers, so the self-help that lands with them encourages aggressive improvement in the domains of finance, physical strength, education, resilience, and also generally encourages stoicism in one form or another. Men are supposed to be straightforward and unpretentious, so the self-help tends to use such a tone. Women otoh are generally expected to be caring, emotionally attuned, and harmless. They want to be different things from men, so their self-help differs from men's pretty greatly. As others have pointed out, it tends to be more upbeat, cutesy, cheerleadery in tone, and focuses more on wellness, mindfulness, and some element of spirituality or another. Indeed, I think an answer that has been overlooked is all the mystic shit that is so popular among women. Stuff like astrology, tarot, wicca, crystals, manifesting, etc. These are outlets that women pursue for understanding, affirmation, "awareness"/attenuation of some sort, and a gentle suggestion of working a thing or two about themselves.

suj1290 · 2022-12-25T17:23:16+00:00

There isn't lack of male attention for women.There is lack of male attention from guys which she finds attractive and so do other women find attractive which creates competition amongst women.Most time single lonely women is a choice by women themselves not because of lack of attention just because she doesn't even count guys whom she doesn't find attractive as people

LowerPatience207 · 2022-12-25T19:20:08+00:00

Well... yeah. Self-improvement isn't gendered.

I did the 75 Hard fitness challenge with my friend a few months after she and I had broke-up with our exes. I also went to therapy. My self-esteem improved, and I quit a job that I hated and got a job in my desired field. I also naturally weeded out friends who only wanted to hang out with me when we were drinking.

Towards the end of the challenge, I felt confident enough to start dating again, but I had stricter boundaries than before, and if I wasn't feeling 110% about a person by the second date, I ditched them. The thought of settling for someone I wasn't head-over-heels for became scarier than the thought of dying alone.

What was interesting was: I noticed that I was getting checked out more, but the number of men who walked up and started a conversation with me actually DECREASED... however, the men who did approach me were more put-together, socially intelligent and emotionally stable than the men I attracted before. I think I became more off-putting to men who were obviously just looking for a hook-up.

I was also so invested in my self-improvement journey that I literally did not have the time to entertain people who weren't looking for anything serious, or who were poor in character. Showing mixed signals? More than 5 minutes late to a first date? Great, you just wasted time that I could have spent getting that second workout or extra pages of reading in.

I met my wonderful partner towards the end of the challenge. He said that he was drawn to me because I "looked like the happiest girl in the room"... that and my rock solid glutes lol. I don't think I would have met someone so compatible for me if I hadn't gone on my self-improvement journey. My friend who participated in the 75 Hard challenge also met her partner around the same time that I met mine. So to answer your question - yes. There is a lot that a woman can do to increase her chances of being noticed by men, and to increase her chances of being approached by emotionally available men who want to be in a relationship. I now 100 percent believe that if you respect yourself, you attract people who also respect themselves to you.

gymbro718nyc2 · 2022-12-25T17:53:03+00:00

Only in the delusional minds of incels who haven't touched grass do average frumpy Plain Janes manage to land a 7' tall Chad by casually swiping on a dating app.

AmericanCows · 2022-12-25T19:35:51+00:00

From what I’ve seen, implying anything may be wrong with the woman is a faux pas.

Fat guy can’t get a woman? No excuse bro, hit the gym.

Fat girl can’t find a man? Men are shallow and intimidated by a “real” woman

The best is when objectively good looking women in their 30s complain hysterically on Tik Tok about men they think they’re better looking than not wanting to commit to them. ANY and I mean ANY insinuation that it could be because she’s incredibly annoying/narcissistic/delusional will get you called an Incel

gopher_glitz · 2022-12-25T20:47:18+00:00

I'd bet money so many wives in low sex marriages where she's packed it on, if they got divorced she'd drop weight so fast and be fucking like a banshee with some random she just met real quick.

Mobile-Aioli-454 · 2022-12-25T22:39:31+00:00

Sure, I’ve been thinking a lot about how approachable I’m perceived and tried to improve that part. I’ve also improved how I take care of my body by going to the gym more as well as paying more attention to skincare and bodycare. Everything together have improved my confidence a lot and it also made me realize that was probably the problem all along.

Laurely4u · 2022-12-25T22:45:13+00:00

Manicure Haircut Gym membership Nutritionist

Watcher2 · 2022-12-26T01:11:19+00:00

yes of course. I know so many women that spend literally 2-3 hours a night in the gym doing squats trying to get, “more sexy.” They also spend hours watching YouTube videos about how to put on makeup.

All of these women don’t need to do any of this, they are pretty but ironically they don’t have any hobby’s or interests that would make them interesting personality wise to men… and spending all of their free-time trying to improve their looks does not help them develop more interesting or fun to be around personalities. I feel sad for them tbh.

Some people will try to “improve” themselves regardless of gender. Some people are lazy and expect everything to be handed to them regardless of gender. Tbh not really sure where you are going with this? Whether or not other people try to improve themselves doesn’t really have anything to do with you trying to improve yourself for yourself friend.

Electronic-Poet-1328 · 2022-12-26T02:26:49+00:00

Yes, I can’t remember a time when I wasn’t conscious of my appearance. I remember being 7 and analysing my body in the mirror at dance class.

Chemical-Ad3703 · 2022-12-26T05:36:07+00:00

Yes- it’s the good ol “focus on yourself” - “glow up” n “self care” all while not looking for it cause that’s when it comes- it’s when you least expected it of course 😆

AstronautLoveShack · 2022-12-26T11:41:02+00:00

Of course. Lose weight, hit the gym, get a makeover, all that stuff.

lifeisasoupiamafork · 2022-12-26T13:44:19+00:00

Women's improvement is called puting make up and dressing well, that is what all women are already doing without mentioning it ! Women improvement is already included in a normal women's behaviour. No need to mention it specifically.

We talk about men's improvement a lot becauss it is not yet natural for men to question themselves. When they don't have seductive success they tend to blame other people/society rather to improve themselves. That is why we tend to remind them: did you think about self improving? Because it is not automatic to them!

Moneydamjan · 2022-12-25T21:45:07+00:00

most women that are attractive don't self improve, they just are and demand, self development is for femcels

propyl21 · 2022-12-25T17:29:36+00:00

Women self help is just telling themselves they are perfect and independent and they don't need no man.

SoldierExcelsior · 2022-12-25T21:45:42+00:00

Women get attention they just don't like the guys they get attention from.

80/20 rule 80% of women are going for 20% of men it's actually 90/10 now hence Nick Canon, Future and other men with 10+ baby mommas

So there's only so much improvement you can do maybe a point or two on looks and that's mostly going to consist of loosing weight for women..and over weight 5 isn't going to be an 8 if she looses weight she might be a 6 now. Either way she won't be as attractive as a naturally thin woman.

Men know when they see an attractive woman she could be in rags homeless she could smell like trash if she's a 10 guys would get her cleaned up and out her in a house..

Woman's problem is they only find a small percentage of men attractive one study I read put it at 1-2% of men...they will make exceptions if he's wealthy and has enough status but it still doesn't mean they find him attractive.

So what can a 5 woman do she's uninterested in other 5s even 6s. She's lost all the weight she can loose facial reconstruction surgery and it looks horrible most of the time...so these women are just sol... they usually end up settling for man they don't like ... r/deadbedrooms, they cheat with Chad's that won't marry them or become dog and cat moms.

Now what they could do is humble themselves and choose a guy in their league but they can't because they all think they're a 10 and the prize.

TheDustLord · 2022-12-25T21:15:19+00:00

If women want to be approached by men, they need to tell other women to stop vilifying men who respectfully approach women. Not every approach is harassment.

propyl21 · 2022-12-25T17:23:27+00:00

I don't think physically there's anything a woman can do to change herself in my eyes. Someone can say get those surgeries of fake lips, breasts or hips. But I don't like that either as I appreciate natural beauty much more.

Now under the assumption that you have mentioned that the woman is not horrificaly ugly or obese, she can impress me with her exceptional personality. Innocent but fierce, a little shy but proud, witty but silly. But then again, if I don't find her physically attractive, I'll always be thinking if I'm doing fair to her and that she should be someone who finds her attractive.

despisedlove2 · 2022-12-25T17:13:37+00:00

Not really, beyond improving her looks.

Men are valued for what they accomplish. Women are valued for who they are.

Men have an incentive to improve. Women mostly don't.

If she treats a partner poorly, she doesn't have to worry about him leaving. In a marriage, she can divorce rape him. Even otherwise, there is an endless supply of men who will happily drink the koolaid of "my ex was so abusive" and become her next mark.

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animorph_fan34 · 2022-12-25T17:26:03+00:00

Women self improve just not for men

doggiedoc2004 · 2022-12-25T18:19:57+00:00

Absolutely. I was very overweight my teen and young adult life. 249 at my heaviest (5’1) I was awkward, nerdy and let myself be taken advantage of by low quality men who just wanted to use me because my self esteem was so low.

Well after finishing graduate school, losing weight over the course of two years, and becoming a more confident person, dressing better, being forced in my career to become personable, I dated higher and higher quality men until I met my husband at 29, be best looking, best quality, best career best personality male I had ever been with.

Still together 17 years later

I am on this sub because I like evolutionary biology and understand my leveling up mating behavior through that lens.

andrejusilva123 · 2022-12-25T18:37:28+00:00

Yes it's called putting on a makeup.

Men improve by going to the gym, women improve by painting their faces.

MistyMaisel · 2022-12-26T03:43:50+00:00

This can't be a real question.

Women are patient zero of the self improvement for dating industry. Frankly, most of the advice men are receiving is like how to be a woman 101 tier advice. Most women were doing what we tell men in their 20s and 30s to do in their middle school, tween, and teenage years.

Yes, we invented it and then we perfected it so we could not be defeated on the field of battle. If being a woman 101 doesn't work, a lot of women then seek therapy, start to go out more, change dating profiles, throw themselves into their hobbies or social circles, work out even more, and in some cases seek cosmetic surgery. There's also some crazy tech involving pheromones some ladies been fuckin with lately. And of course different psychological tricks on how to make someone fall in love with you.

Visible-Ad8105 · 2022-12-26T05:25:02+00:00

Fuck no lol. She would complain on social media about how all men are trash and take no accountability.

PatrickAizen · 2022-12-25T17:28:31+00:00

Absolutely not, Women don't live in a fact-based World where they are told self improvement is a thing. Some think they are already enough and need no self improvement other than their looks and what happens is they end up getting sexually used because of that

Why on Earth would women need self improvement if simps and Betas exist ?

Secure_Archer_191 · 2022-12-25T18:19:16+00:00

Get run thru by a bunch of guys. Gain weight become a fat bitch and be depressed about it. ☕️

nfldrako25 · 2022-12-25T17:22:54+00:00

Yeah it's getting fucked by every dude then call it self improvement

Accomplished-Eye2009 · 2022-12-25T18:52:54+00:00

Yes its called using a man for his income and trying to take a masculine role and turining him into a cuckold 🤣

RegTextoffender · 2022-12-25T19:02:46+00:00

Diet, squats, learning how to be forward.

Kobe_curry24 · 2022-12-25T21:51:13+00:00

Women don’t have self improvement if they did relationships might be fixed Lmfaoooo women self improvement is their SMV if a women knows she is fuck able to her she is not doing anything wrong it’s why a women will do some dumb Shit and will not phase her to her if guys want to fck her nothing is wrong . The only time women improved is when they get fucked over , or they whore era is over then they start to rebrand as a good girl Lmfaoooo, Pat stedman talks about women with this a lot

KayRay1994 · 2022-12-25T18:06:19+00:00

nah self improvement is a very gendered concept and males are the only ones who are capable of it. Women are who they will always be for the rest of their lives, and that will never change

boomboxspence · 2022-12-25T20:01:53+00:00

They don't have to

anon-sucks · 2022-12-25T21:53:59+00:00

Does astrology count? =)

DiamondLilyD · 2022-12-26T00:15:28+00:00

This has to be a troll

Ohms2North · 2022-12-26T05:43:20+00:00

Botox and fillers

fizeekfriday · 2022-12-26T10:27:56+00:00

Everyones talking about purely looks when real self improvement for a woman is not being a narcissist and being able to converse with a man intimately without being flirty. Older women can pull this off cause they had to develop other skills to captivate men but younger women who may have been ugly ducklings could also have this skill but they usually can't help but be flirty.

LillthOfBabylon · 2022-12-26T15:01:20+00:00

When a man isn’t getting laid or having success with women, he’s usually told he needs to self-improve. This generally involves working out and getting a good physique, dressing better, taking better care of his hygiene, getting a haircut, being more extroverted and confident etc.

I do that shit too, difference is I don’t do it for the opposite gender. I do it for myself.

2022-12-26T15:54:06+00:00

What do you think the beauty industry is?

Unlike us who feel like shit sometimes and thus grind sometimes. They constantly dab makeup on to even go to the mailbox

odd_cloud · 2022-12-26T17:34:57+00:00

I wouldn't call it self improvement, becuase it's mainly concerned with appearance.

2022-12-26T18:25:58+00:00

the self-help industry is predominantly female.

Flightlessbirbz · 2022-12-27T12:51:47+00:00

Most women already do a lot to improve their looks. The fact that “self improvement” is almost a new “thing” for men while most women have been doing this stuff since were were not even teens yet, is a stark illustration that we do not live in the same world. Not all women grow up knowing how to do this stuff though, or some might decide to do more like get surgery. It really depends.

Title	Do women have their own version of “self improvement”?
Author	Glass_Bucket
Upvotes	96
Comments	341
Date	December 25, 2022 5:07 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/zv1z9r/do_women_have_their_own_version_of_self/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/do-women-have-their-own-version-of-self.1145783 https://theredarchive.com/post/1145783

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