Leftover men are still more useful to society than leftover women

jrjr_analyst · 2023-03-02T17:48:19+00:00

Older men are still more useful and have better and more useful skills than older women. They also save more money manage it better. Men also have many options to work... they can be CEOs or offices [sic], or they can work on construction. Women would rather work in office jobs or not work at all.

As a soon-to-be leftover man, this is BS. Older men are terrible at adapting to new technologies and hierarchies. I'm a business analyst for a SaaS consultancy, and it's incredibly difficult to get buy-in from male users in their 40s, let alone those beyond that. At least older women have the humility to accept their ignorance, and let the trainers (and me, on occasion) coach them up. They also appear more diligent about perfecting mundane tasks ("spreadsheet jobs") than their male contemporaries or even me.

Also, leftover women are waaaay more likely to provide additional social net (ad hoc childcare, cooking, company) to younger familiies *and* older relatives. I worked briefly in a nursing home as a CNA (trying to get practical hours of PA school - fail) and some of the hardest-working, most compassionate CNAs were women (some divorced or single) in their 50s.

I don't see a point in debating about whether leftover men or women are more useful to society. I agree that women's healthcare costs impose a larger social burden, but that's because of pre/post natal care. However, they are more capable of making up for it by contributing more to society in their twilight years as caregivers, helpers, and non mass-shooters. Plus leftover women (wine + cats + light cougaring) don't bear children, so the pre/post-natal care costs are moot.

Subvert_A_Paradigm · 2023-03-02T17:48:33+00:00

I could not give less of a fuck if I’m useful or not to the rat race.

BlackPorcelainDoll · 2023-03-02T19:28:45+00:00

Why are you devaluing feminine and female dominant jobs, work, volunteering, skills and careers - you are just as bad as the feminists you hate, anti-feminists = feminists

Early-Christmas-4742 · 2023-03-02T19:13:09+00:00

Women would rather work in office jobs or not work at all.

I'm guessing you've never been to a hospital, school, nursary or old people's home?

AllStickNoCarrot · 2023-03-02T20:54:11+00:00

What's the purpose of trying to assign arbitrary value to a subset of people? If you reach a conclusion about this, one way or another, what will you do with that information that puts more good into the world?

If you're concern is that you observe men being dehumanized in society, why not ask something more constructive about that instead of framing it as a comparison to the value of women?

Men have value. Women have value. People have value. Nobody should be dehumanized. This comparison mindset seems counterproductive.

Maffioze · 2023-03-02T14:57:10+00:00

I'm just gonna point out that men don't actually manage their money better than women do atleast when it comes to investing.

We need to call out misinformation on both sides.

Mistress-Eve- · 2023-03-02T15:08:31+00:00

I’m going into academia to spend most of my life researching things that aren’t applicable to the growth of industry, and writing texts that won’t be read by the vast majority of people just for the sake of advancing total human knowledge. I’m not useful to capitalist society. Do I give a single fuck? Non.

Also… (paraphrasing) “men have many options for work like being a CEO” … sure buddy, good luck with that.

TotalTravesty · 2023-03-02T14:12:23+00:00

Lemme guess: this thought is formed by a bias that OP is more likely to become a “leftover man” than a “leftover woman.”

Honestly, once you get past a certain age, the differences between old men and old women stop being so significant. Nobody wants an old person working in construction unless it’s in a role that a old man or woman can perform. There’s nothing inherent about being an older man that makes them more likely to save money, especially if they used their youth blowing it on crypto and meme stonks like they are more wont to do. Face it: if you’re “leftover” then nobody gives a damn what’s between your legs anymore.

MistyMaisel · 2023-03-02T17:41:00+00:00

Women participate in the caretaker positions way more than men. And we have an aging population which is unhealthy. We aren't short on skyscrapers or CEOs. We are short on nurses, teachers, elder-care, child-care, etc.

Like, I hate telling men they're obsolete because I really don't believe this, but if we have to go there, aged women are significantly more vital currently. Especially since on the whole we're healthier and the jobs are not as strenuous physically. An aged man can hardly do construction work and is a hazard. An aged woman can easily care for a small child or even older person.

Irys-likethe-Eye · 2023-03-02T19:10:45+00:00

People aren't saying men themselves are obsolete, but the standards that "men/society" have previously self imposed and maintained on themselves and others are.

Here's a singular example. My brother got sick, really sick, like brain destroying virus sick years ago. My father could not cope. The stoicism left over from his coal mining grandfather would not let him express his fear and feelings of inadequacy as he stared down at his possibly dying son. So he shut down and claimed he had "things of importance" to do and left the burden on my mother and my sister and i. Out of sight out of mind right? He's doing the "important stuff". Fast forward a year, brother is out of the hospital having lived and now out of rehab. But he's different. He's suffered a major brain injury and he's never going to be the same. Dad could not compute. Could not adapt to his only sons new existence. Since dad left us for the town whore years ago because family was boring but she was slutty and exciting, mom and dad are divorced and don't live together. At this point dad owns the business he built from the ground up when he was with mom, and mom, is has climbed her way up despite single motherhood, and is manager in a international multi billion dollar a year company. Who do you think stepped up to care for their son?

Not dad. He just "couldn't" you understand. It's all far too complex a problem. Brother went to visit him and dad just couldn't be bothered to change his life in any way to suit the needs of his son, either in work or play. Left him in alone in a multi level house to go to the lake because my brother didn't want to go. He's blind in one eye, has compromised agility due to atrophied muscles and brain injury, and worse he remembers who he used to be and it's now uncomfortable in public. He called Mom to come get him, he was afraid of being alone. Afraid of having a seizure alone. Mom comes to get him because would never let her kid think she wasn't there for them. But, she couldn't keep up with the strain of her salaried, higher paying job and be present and available for her grand mal seizure having son. Dad was taking weekend pleasure trips on the bikes up to the camp at the lake and mom was taking my brother to the doctor, the neurologist, the cardiologist, spending hours navigating the social services offices, etc. And despite not taking on any responsibility either physically or financially dad always had something to say about her not doing enough or doing it good enough.

Fast forward, mom died this year. Do you know who is caring for my brother now? Me. His sister. Because once again in my father's own words. He can't. His life just isn't set up for that. So he's let me take on all the burden. And it's a lot. You'd think he'd at least throw money at the situation right? Because that is what men do. The important work because they "pay for society to function, subsidizing the inadequacies of greater society ie: women." But no. He did tell me about the trip he just took though. Sounded nice.

So here I am talking to my brother about SSI and making sure we don't get accused of fraud so I've got to let them know the situation. Conversation continues and I'm talking with him about things like finding him a therapist. His immediate response? "I'm not going to talk to some fucking therapist". He's spent the last 17 years not getting to do the emotional or mental "growing" the rest of us has the chance to do so he's got 3 "living memory" generations of the unhealthy mental attitude the men have passed along stuck in his brain. Mean while whenever I feel like it's ok to talk about these things with people they are generally like "why the hell would he not want to talk to a therapist? It's amazing to be able to be honest with a non involved third party about what is really bothering you!" I told him just that and I could see in thinking about that in those terms for apparently the first time.

It's "not all men" that are becoming obsolete. Just some.

funkyyams · 2023-03-03T03:41:55+00:00

Or how about you just don’t think that way. There’s no leftover man vs leftover woman. People are human beings and reducing women to being baby carriers is as dehumanizing as it gets so maybe stop being hypocritical. “Leftover men” don’t not have value just because “leftover women” have even less value. That’s a false dichotomy.

Leftover men and women is just made up. Stop feeding into the ageism and stop perpetuating sexism. And stop making broad sweeping generalizations based on your narrow personal experience

womandatory · 2023-03-03T05:03:56+00:00

I think any man who was alive in Iceland in 1975 would strongly disagree with you.

The reason you don’t value women’s contribution to society is because you’ve never gone without it. I’d love to see some western countries do this, but there’s too many women with internalized misogyny who couldn’t bear to think of the menz struggling for one day. Pity.

Salt_Mathematician24 · 2023-03-02T14:32:48+00:00

It was found during lockdown that over 50% of key workers were women so...

Mrs_Drgree · 2023-03-02T15:20:21+00:00

[permanently deleted]

bluestjuice · 2023-03-02T14:24:34+00:00

Oh gods. I swear, we all need to close this sub down for a day and go run around in the sunshine with each other experiencing some actual joy.

Financial_Leave4411 · 2023-03-02T14:14:31+00:00

Life is not a competition to see who is the most useful to society. For the vast majority of people no one is going to remember how useful you were to the economy or to your job when you’re dead and gone. Your employer is going to have you replaced before your body finishes cooling let alone is buried or cremated. So enjoy the life you have while you can enjoy it.

HighestTierMaslow · 2023-03-02T17:42:21+00:00

What blatant sexism. Everything you listed about "older men" I know so many never married older women that are skilled in those areas. Office jobs are valuable too you know. Older men dont really provide manual labor anyway.

badgersonice · 2023-03-02T19:10:19+00:00

However, if you look deeper, older men are still more useful and have better and more useful skills than older women.

You seem to not understand how capitalism works.

People who get paid for jobs are doing jobs that other people will pay for. It doesn’t matter how “leftover” or worthless you think those jobs are, if a woman is getting paid money, it’s because her job is considered valuable to someone who has money to pay her.

You wanting to get paid more or praised more for being a man doesn’t change the state of the market: people get paid for jobs that are valued somehow.

I'd say that only thing that makes women more valuable was pregnancy

In our current economic system, women giving birth has negative value. Women are punished with the costs of pregnancy and childrearing, with little to no compensation, depending on her economic status.

You can claim women’s greatest value is pregnancy all you want: it isn’t rewarded or even respected in society. How much hard work do you pay to do so you can benefit society at your own expense? Would you risk your life to do hard work that costs you money and opportunities?

januaryphilosopher · 2023-03-02T14:30:52+00:00

This is a complete caricature. Single men and women are all working and contributing to society which they need to survive. Women are far from just working in offices and there are many useful skills that are more common in women than men. I don't know why you're mentioning CEOs at all as a ridiculously small percentage of people.

gofigure62 · 2023-03-02T17:56:58+00:00

Women provide more free social labor than men. Meaning that women are more likely to provide free child care, free elderly care, free ailing relative care, as well as volunteer compared to men.

Women provide social safety net support that would cause society to collapse if they didn't. Most of the invisible labor that women provide, is necessary for society to function.

Some-Web-1213 · 2023-03-02T18:37:37+00:00

If older men accumulate money and do well in life why are they “leftover” in your scenario? Those are two completely different things. Financially successful men are MGTOW, maybe, which is probably not true either. Why are CEOs mentioned in the post about leftover men? You realize many individual leftover men don’t just elect to work in construction when they could have taken an office job?

What a word vomit. OP, sort out your thoughts and come back with something more coherent than this. We believe in you.

AstronautLoveShack · 2023-03-02T14:55:03+00:00

Women can also be CEOs. Or doctors. Or engineers. Or politicians. Or raise cattle. Perhaps you should widen your view of women's capabilities.

MyLastBestChance · 2023-03-02T14:43:39+00:00

If some men (or women) want to fall behind in education and employment, that is their choice and their right 🤷‍♀️.

Productive people, both men and women, will gladly fill in any gaps. Frankly, the loss of contribution by ambitionless people isn’t likely to result in any sort of crisis.

The data suggests that women (young and old) who remain single are still working, supporting themselves and contributing to society so I’m not sure what equivalency you’re trying to draw.

Sensitive-Creme1627 · 2023-03-02T14:22:54+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Goyeyo565 · 2023-03-02T18:34:19+00:00

Not if men keep falling into depression and opting out of society. In order to be useful you need to provide something; a "leftover" woman who has a job is leagues above more useful than a "leftover" guy who does nothing but rot away in his room.

sadbitch55 · 2023-03-03T00:21:36+00:00

Okay, but anyway, I think you don't need to be "useful" everytime. God created us all and everyone has the right to live, no matter their usefulness.

ashpr0ulx · 2023-03-02T15:20:44+00:00

i’ve worked in trades/stereotypically masculine jobs for the past ~12 years, and women trade workers have really skyrocketed in that time. so many women driving semis these days is something i’ve noticed too. not sure if that interest will level off or keep going, but seems women are more than capable of those types of jobs.

nurses, pharmacists, teachers, childcare workers are all overwhelmingly female. i’d argue those careers are quite beneficial to society. and even office workers- administrators free up the time and resources of skilled professionals such as doctors and lawyers. that’s not a bad thing at all.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2023-03-02T14:22:53+00:00

Ok what the hell is a leftover man?

DoinIt989 · 2023-03-02T16:04:25+00:00

No,they aren't. Leftover women are usually good worker bees. Leftover men are literally a threat to society's stability, unless they are all old or you neuter them (in which case, what's the point, they aren't the beasts of burden you need?)

propyl21 · 2023-03-02T14:48:33+00:00

It's not a zero sum game. We're all suffering in different ways.

Maffioze · 2023-03-03T14:15:44+00:00

Why is this post removed?

INFPneedshelp · 2023-03-02T15:22:25+00:00

Stunning misogyny there!

Women do more volunteer work with those less fortunate and the elderly and children. They're care for aging parents more than sons do (and not because they're "predisposed" to it.) Are you saying that isn't valuable? Should women not bother? Men could easily pick up the slack it seems. They're just so capable.

And the spreadsheet comment is very weird an uninformed; not much more to say there.

I'll close by saying I don't think anyone should be called names for how they choose to live.

CimZim · 2023-03-02T15:45:45+00:00

However, if you look deeper, older men are still more useful and have better and more useful skills than older women.

What better and more useful skills does the average man have that the average woman does not?

They also save more money manage it better.

Do you have any statistics to support this claim, or are you just going based on personal anecdotes?

Men also have many options to work... they can be CEOs or offices, or they can work on construction.

And women can do this as well. There's many, many other jobs that you didn't mention that both sexes are in too.

Women would rather work in office jobs or not work at all.

I seriously doubt this, as the pandemic showed how absolutely stir crazy most men and women alike become when they have nothing to do all day but remain at home. It's also weird how you think the standard dichotomy is Office Job vs No Job. Like I mentioned above, there are hundreds of jobs other than sitting in an office cubicle, that women and men do everyday.

For example, my FWB is an elementary school teacher...that's neither a CEO or construction worker or office worker. Would you still say his job is "more useful"? I have 2 jobs, one involves me working outside doing measurements and assisting with property surveys/permitting for people who want to buy tiny houses. My other job is a game store I opened last June and am the sole owner of. Neither of these are office jobs...how useful are they in your mind? My other employed guyfriends are a high school physics teacher, a college admin/guidance counselor, a daycare worker, a psychiatrist, a florist, a landscaper, a computer engineer, three are retail workers at big box stores, and a graphic designer. You'll notice that most of them work indoors and some have office jobs. Which of these men would you consider to have useful skills?

I'd say that only thing that makes women more valuable was pregnancy, but many of those women are now too old for children or rather prefer spreadsheet jobs rather than a family, which is their decision, but they will be just as disposable as men... except less useful, for the reasons I exposed.

You didn't actually show this, just gave your opinion about what you think women do with our lives.

nonplussedminus · 2023-03-02T14:06:09+00:00

Nobody needs to be "useful" and life isn't a competition of "who is more useful". This mindset leads to so many old guys killing themselves after retirement. Even if you want to entertain the mindset, it doesn't really hold on a human level. It would be a sad world if we didn't have grandmas.

richard_golbes · 2023-03-02T15:18:30+00:00

Women would rather work in office jobs or not work at all

Obviously false.

JNRoberts42 · 2023-03-02T15:44:14+00:00

Any links to the trend you claim? I found an op-Ed with a click bait title from 2014, but the author explains men aren’t actually obsolete, but that women are more competitive in the workplace.

anjovis150 · 2023-03-02T16:08:53+00:00

If you consider Cheeto consumption as useful then yeah.

gate18 · 2023-03-02T15:00:13+00:00

Leftover men are still more useful to society than leftover women

Even if that's the case. So?

However, this judgment is only based on the assumption government as more important than the individual.

That doesn't make sense. You do not think the individual is import. If you did, how does what you wrote makes sense? If the individual is important from what ass did you pull "leftover" from? If the individual is important why are you refering to men and women as a herd of sheep?

Before you try to convince us about the importance of the individual, try to convice yourself. Are leftover women cows, dogs, rats? If they are individual humans and if human individuals are important, why are you calling them leftovers and why are you grouping them and why are you deciding one of those groups is more important?

They also save more money manage it better.

If the individual is more important than government so what? Are those with poor money management skills cows, dogs, rats or individuals? (not that you proved that men are better at it)

Women would rather work in office jobs or not work at all.

So what. If an individual needs work, they find work. If the individual is important (which you do not believe) who the fuck are you to say you, yourself, and your father, and your uncles are worthless leftovers because they aren't CEOs or construction workers?

You do not care about the individual, you just want robots. And, FYI, woman can be CEOs and work in construction, just as men can be artists that are shit at money management, but yo don't care about the individual.

You think of humans as leftover robots

MoreSanitizerPls · 2023-03-02T15:17:36+00:00

“A car with a four flat tires is more useful than a car with a broken axel.” As one of the “leftover women” I’d like to say: Lol who the fuck cares. They’re both beat up mostly useless cars.

Miserable people trying to get a 1 up on other miserable people are usually the MOST miserable.

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wtknight · 2023-03-02T18:26:23+00:00

There are plenty of useful jobs for older women. Nurses and teachers, for instance, are jobs commonly done by women and both are very useful for society.

nemma88 · 2023-03-02T21:02:48+00:00

Spending money is better for the economy than saving it.

It's also primarily women in teaching, nursing, charity and other people orientated jobs, jobs there are always vacancies for. Construction takes a terrible toll on the human body. Our electrician has had two back surgeries already and he's in his 30s.....

Paranoidexboyfriend · 2023-03-02T15:03:31+00:00

Men are only useful to society if they have a job. The ones that don't have zero value to society (though their life still has value because they are still human). Women will always have at minimum SOME value to society, because they can reproduce, and men value having sex with them regardless of their job status. (obviouslly I'm not saing a womans only value is her vagina, I'm saying that even if they lacked any other redeeming qualities, at a minimum they'll still always have that)

UpbeatInsurance5358 · 2023-03-02T15:11:27+00:00

Nobody is leftover if they choose not to be.

bison5595 · 2023-03-02T15:38:37+00:00

Sorry buddy, but your rant is a massive cope. Leftover men may add value to society, but in the mating game, women have determined they aren’t worthy of sex and reproducing with. Basically you’re good enough to be used to make money for rich people and your taxes will go to helping the future generation of kids that women decided you weren’t worthy of having.

Safinated · 2023-03-02T15:16:47+00:00

Plenty of us are non essential. Both to run society or perpetuate the human race

lolthankstinder · 2023-03-02T15:56:39+00:00

Fortunately, the value of older adults isn’t based on the percentage of old CEOs in their demographic. Even with “traditional” gender roles older women were still extremely useful. Nurses, teachers, caretakers.

More CEOs are male because of the ACTUAL reason for the pay gap: more stressful, inflexible, demanding jobs pay more. People that want families and more flexible work hours have to compromise their careers and accept lower-paying positions with more flexibility and less vertical mobility. Since the expectation of childcare more often falls on women, they must make more career sacrifices.

Rampant misandry, including the belief that men are useless and obsolete, is an entirely separate issue. It’s like feminism’s demonic bastard child. It’s running around throwing a tantrum but feminists aren’t too eager to put a stop to it because it’s a smart child and knows how to disguise its hatred of men into feminist beliefs. Feminists need to be a bit more strict with their child or they risk undermining their credibility and validity. More and more educated, liberal men like me are being born into a more gender-equal postfeminist westernized society and grow up being culturally shit on left and right just for being male and blamed and shamed for a history I took no part in. To me, feminists kind of seem like the oppressors, not men, which is not a good look for feminism.

Title	Leftover men are still more useful to society than leftover women
Author	Sensitive-Creme1627
Upvotes	21
Comments	264
Date	March 2, 2023 1:27 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/11g2r81/leftover_men_are_still_more_useful_to_society/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/leftover-men-are-still-more-useful-to-society-than.1154756 https://theredarchive.com/post/1154756

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