Q4W who identify with feminism. Are there any priveleges that mostly benefit women you’re advocating to give up in the name of equality.

No_Teacher_3313 · 2025-03-07T14:44:29+00:00

No.

Child custody should be 50-50 by default. Alimony should be based on income, not gender. Dates should be either paid for by the person asking or split 50-50. Men should get paternity leave. Whoever wants to propose, should propose. If a man wants a gift similar in expense to an engagement ring, he should get it. Use of embryos should require the agreement of both parties.

I’m not in agreement over the accidental pregnancy. Child support goes to the welfare of the child. Too bad that you wanted her to get an abortion. That’s just a biological reality. Stick with oral or anal if you’re not willing to take the risk.

Unique_Mind2033 · 2025-03-07T15:28:05+00:00

I am not advocating for any policies that would not benefit men and women in equal measure. men versus woman is a distraction.

angelbaby933 · 2025-03-07T14:19:49+00:00

A main one I can think of is women who get the upper hand is child custody cases. Not much I can do there since I don’t have or plan to have children, nor do I work in family law.

But I strongly feel that if a child has two competent, loving parents then they should spend time with each of them.

p_fulga · 2025-03-07T14:28:31+00:00

If you're gonna deck someone, expect to be decked in return. Man or woman, a fist is a fist.

Makuta_Servaela · 2025-03-07T14:24:01+00:00

Feminism isn't about "equality", because if it was, it would have a focus on men or consider men the default. Feminism is a rights movement for the freedom of women from oppression based on their sex.

Animal rights advocates aren't required to focus on humans. Homeless advocates aren't required to focus on the housed. Childwelfare advocates aren't required to focus on adults. Blind advocates aren't required to focus on the deaf. Why should feminists be required to focus on men?

Anyway, the majority of so-called privileges that women supposedly have are often patriarchy backfiring on men. Women hitting men are seen as less serious because women are considered weak. Women get free drinks at bars because the bars want to sell "lots of drunk, vulnerable women" to men. Women are trusted to be better with children because men pushed the idea that childcare is a woman's responsibility only. Alimony exists because marriage was created for a man to own his wife and kids: he does better at work and gets paid more because she is expected to give up all possessions and property to her husband, and sacrifice her own career to care for the kids and home. Alimony was initially designed to protect her from him abandoning her after all of the sacrifice she was required to make.

It's a bit obnoxious for men to create a system to benefit themselves, get hit by the backswing, and then demand women fix it for them.

Motherofvampires · 2025-03-07T14:46:36+00:00

As far as I'm aware there are no laws about some of this stuff, so you're arguing about social niceties. I can only speak for myself, but I do and have paid for dates. The last date I went on was a first date. I suggested the venue, arrived early and when he arrived I bought us both drinks. It's fairly common for me to do this. I'm not American, so idk if this is a regional thing.

As far as assault goes, it is illegal in my country to respond with disproportionate force. So a man is fairly likely to be imprisoned if he beats an attacker too violently irrespective of the sex of his assailant. I know a man this happened to. He was attacked by a man and retaliated with his fists and the other man died. He went to prison for manslaughter. So if a woman hits a man and he retaliates with enough force to seriously injure her, then yes he can be in trouble, but this isn't sex specific. For the record I do not condone either sex hitting people.

I've never been proposed to, or proposed to anyone (even though I've been married) so I can't comment on that.

Things get more difficult when we talk about pregnancy. Reproduction is sex based, there is no way around that, you can never legislate that away. The woman takes the majority of the risks, this can never be equal. Therefore I don't think it's unfair to treat it unequally. It looks very much like abortion is under threat in the US in any case, so the issue will no longer arise there, both parties will be locked in on conception. Do men in the US prefer this approach, even though presumably even more of them will become reluctant fathers than at present?

Child custody is another one that men sometimes complain about. But in the UK certainly where men apply for 50/50 or even more residency they are almost always granted it unless there is a very good reason why not (violence to the mother is not a sufficient reason not). What actually happens is that very few men apply. So that's more of a perceived bias than an actual one.

FearlessSea4270 · 2025-03-07T14:42:32+00:00

In America a big one is a genderless draft, which I support. The last piece of legislation on the issue was a feminist bill and conservatives voted it out, fun fact.

Also I think alimony should be a matter of which partner makes more income. I know plenty of women that pay their ex-husbands alimony because they were the higher earner.

Oh & I pay for first dates. You’re shadow-boxing a ghost here hon.

thelajestic · 2025-03-07T16:36:36+00:00

None of the privileges you've listed apply to me particularly so I don't really see them as privileges, and some of them really aren't even privileges they're just random things. I've put specifics down below in relation to your post but added my general thoughts here first.

I can't think of anything that I have that I would need to give up for men to be equal, but a major improvement could be made for men to try and make things more equal:

Men should have equal parental leave to women. It shouldn't be an either/or, they should both be able to take the full amount of leave/pay offered to them. This would help men in several ways: allow them more time to bond with their children, remove some of the stigma and loneliness from men who are the primary caregivers, and allow them time to settle in with the family without splitting focus. It would also help women to not be seen as the default caregiver, would help with the general family relationship, and go some way to removing the breadwinner/career dynamic. It may also help even out wages/pension gaps because men and women would be equally likely to take extended periods of time off work, and therefore their career progression and wages progression would be affected in the same ways.

In terms of the specifics you've raised, my thoughts:

When pussypassdenied was full of videos of women physically assaulting men, and men retaliating the feminist position wasn’t that these are 2 adults, one instigator and one who defended themselves. No, it was that man is using disproportionate force cause he’s too powerful. You wouldn’t hit a child who hit you…

Realistically I think it would be rather better if none of us hit each other, but I do think there needs to be a consideration of "reasonable force" if you're defending yourself against someone smaller and weaker. If a woman who's bigger and stronger hits you, sure, it's fine to go all out to defend yourself. But if a little kid came up and punched me I'm not going to deck them back (using the kid example only because I'm under 5ft and generally very small, they're the only demographic likely to be smaller and weaker than me). Using reasonable restraint etc to try and protect yourself/diffuse the situation is clearly better than just going ham on someone. That's not anything to do with gender, it's just common sense.

Feminists aren’t insisting that since the gender wage gap for the same job and level is nearly identical (.99 to 1.01 for every dollar earned by a man) that maybe women should pay on first dates now.

I am a feminist and I frequently insist women should split the bill on dates! And it's a sentiment I've seen frequently. Unfortunately there are women who disagree. All I can do is call it out when I see it (which I do). There are also a whole host of men who disagree! Which makes it difficult again because really, unless they stop the behaviour and make these women undatable it will never be removed as an expectation.

Feminists aren’t insisting that anyone can and should propose to any other partner (my very feminist friend is very pissed at me cause I asked her boyfriend why not wait for her to propose to him)

Probably because it's extremely low stakes and doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things? I don't care who proposes to who! My husband didn't want me to propose to him (we discussed it) and I was happy for him to do what he preferred because realistically I didn't care either way. I figured since we had discussed and agreed that we would get married then we probably didn't need a proposal at all, but he assured me this was too unromantic. So this should really be whatever is preferred by the couple.

Feminists aren’t proposing that men who communicated that they don’t want children before sex, in a society where abortions are freely accessible, should be able to relinquish their rights and responsibilities before the abortion period in the case of an accidental pregnancy.

This is just a really tricky situation overall. Generally if a living child is produced, the needs of the child outweigh the needs of the parents. I think everyone should take the utmost care to avoid an unwanted pregnancy - under no circumstances should anyone have sex without a condom if they don't want kids, they should double up on contraception if they're able, pull out even while using condom to minimise risk, take the MAP if the condom breaks. Even with all of this unfortunately, pregnancy might occur.

Should there be a way to relinquish parental rights (beforehand, before having sex I think would need to be when it's done)? Yeah possibly. But it should be null and void if you go without a condom and don't take every step possible to avoid that pregnancy. Because you know you don't have the option to abort, so you need to be as careful as you can be. Where abortion is very restrictive then no, neither parent should be able to sign away their responsibilities unless both agree/or the baby is adopted/or one of the parents has become one through rape/SA (as either men or women should be absolved of any responsibility unless they want the child, and the child should be placed in care/adopted out so as not to be raised by a rapist).

There’s a divorce lawyer who says that the purest way to drive feminism out of a woman is have her ordered to pay alimony.

Women do pay alimony and they should if the circumstances point to it. However alimony is rare in either direction, it's not a particularly large issue. Alimony also comes about due to decisions made by that couple. If you don't want to pay alimony then don't marry someone who doesn't work/intends to stop working at any point.

PracticalControl2179 · 2025-03-07T17:56:31+00:00

the purest way to drive feminism out of a woman is have her ordered to pay alimony

What a hateful thing to say. Most women DO HAVE to pay alimony if they out earn their ex husbands by a certain margin. I’m not sure why you’re fixated on punishing women. Was he trying to push women to be housewives so that they can get alimony? Aren’t the men here against paying housewives alimony and don’t they advocate to make them essentially homeless?

Furthermore, men pay for dates because a woman’s SMV/ RMV is decreased with every new man she goes out with. If a woman dates 100 men, men will assume she slept with them or dated a superior guy in the past who didn’t want to commit. Men see male sexuality as degrading on women, so a woman who has sex with the men she dates is considered degraded. Even if she doesn’t have sex, the implication is there. Paying for dates is a token of appreciation.

And lastly, I have always been against the draft. Instead, I think we should incentivize people joining the military by giving them much stronger and better benefits. All veterans should get free housing no matter what. Anyone who has been in the military for longer than 5 years or something should automatically be a U.S. citizen as well as their spouse and kids.

Suspicious_Glove7365 · 2025-03-07T14:29:58+00:00

Define “equality” and then we can talk.

ChadChasingBReturns · 2025-03-07T16:30:51+00:00

I don’t think there should be selective service for men. Genital mutilation should banned for both sexes until adulthood is reached and it’s the choice of the patient. Men and women should face equal jail time for equal crimes. In order to abolish child support we should have raised taxes to pay for all children. That’s the only way to make relinquished parental duties/rights a thing. Saying that a man can opt out by a woman having a medical procedure is kind of weird. Men can have a medical procedure and avoid children too.

LaFrescaTrumpeta · 2025-03-07T21:22:02+00:00

i’m a lesbian who’s constantly irked by the benevolent sexism people throw at me, it’s obvious when i’m being “treated like a woman” in ways guys wouldn’t treat their guy friends. hold the door for me if you’d do it for anyone, kinda thing. i’m good with ending that and getting a draft card idgaf

toasterchild · 2025-03-07T15:32:16+00:00

Many of us do actually try on some of this shit but it truly just doesn't rank very high in importance. I do believe in insisting to pay for the first or second date just to see if it bothers the guy or not. I'm not wasting my time dating a guy who is easily emasculated because I know that will end badly.

Statistically women who identify as feminist are going to be more likely to agree with most things listed here than women who are trad/ conservative will. Women who are feminist aren't nearly as likely to think women shouldn't propose, they are more likely to think custody should be split, they are more likely to want to pay their own way on the first date. Most of us would give up all this petty shit in a heartbeat if it meant that men would stop going after our personal rights etc. Most of the stuff above is just dumb petty shit that annoys a lot of men and women alike.

So much blame about this shit gets hurled at feminists when it's really the trads who promote most of it harder than anything. The feminists might not be fighting the battle for you because they got their own shit to worry about but they also aren't typically the ones fighting against you either.

leosandlattes · 2025-03-07T14:34:55+00:00

You will have to specify which kind of feminism. There’s “legal equality” feminism. There is also “end male supremacy/oppression and liberate women” feminism. There is also “we should look at how multiple forms of discrimination interacts with being a woman and resolving those issues” feminism. Lots of other kinds of feminisms. “Equality between the sexes” is too simplified.

Also given that I believe in the red pill, I am a sexist and I don’t really believe that men and women are equal in terms of in terms of biology, psychology, and behavior. I’m sorry. There will always be advantages that women have over men, and others that men have over women. Trying to equalize these things is an exercise in futility. Might as well ask everyone to become agender clones that way zero people have advantages over others.

ThatBitchA · 2025-03-07T15:29:39+00:00

Being lusted after by men because I have boobs and a vagina isn't a privilege.

Also, it is spelled p-r-i-v-i-l-e-g-e.

Not sure what other privileges you think women have.

Feminism isn't about "equality". It's about giving women opportunities or choices that are limited by sex or gender.

It seems like some men want Feminism to "save them". Which weird.

Men can only save themselves. Some men are too reliant on women for validation and attention.

since the gender wage gap for the same job and level is nearly identical

No. This is incorrect. There is a wage gap between men and women doing the same job, same level of experience, same hours, same same.

Also, I'm never paying for a first date. Never have and never will.

oppositegeneva · 2025-03-07T15:18:22+00:00

I want to preface by saying I’m not anything close to a modern/third wave feminist.

I simply believe women and men are inherently equal in their value as humans and women should have access and the right to pursue the same opportunities as men.

The first “privilege” that comes to mind is the draft. While I don’t believe there should be ANY draft, there is, and I would be okay if women had to participate in a draft if the US went to war.

Perfect-Resist5478 · 2025-03-07T18:33:23+00:00

I have no problem paying for first dates, and when I was dating I always did.

I think proposals should be a conversation. How are you gonna start your life as a unit if one person expects to be surprised by something that big. To that end, engagement rings are expensive and should also be a joint decision because again, working as a team.

I don’t think alimony should be based on gender. It should be based on income and only if one party gave up their career to raise children. If a social worker marries a neurosurgeon and then gets divorces, the neurosurgeon shouldn’t pay the social worker alimony to keep them in the lifestyle they were accustom to. If the divorced social worker wants to live like they’re married to a neurosurgeon, they should get a job that pays them enough to live like that.

The issue of course is the hot chicks that dudes generally want can say they won’t pay for dates, they must have a fancy ring, they won’t sign a prenup, etc. And there will always be dudes who will shell out and cough up because, to them, it’s worth it to land that particular woman. All that being said I think more and more women agree with me on some if not all of my points. If you don’t want to pay for dates, don’t pay. If you don’t want to buy a ring or propose, don’t. If you don’t want to pay alimony, sign a prenup. If you don’t want to risk unwanted children, use a condom/get a vasectomy.

fakingandnotmakingit · 2025-03-07T18:00:40+00:00

2 adults, one instigator and one who defended themselves. No, it was that man is using disproportionate force cause he’s too powerful.

The act of self defense and disproportionate response has always been a contentious area of the law in most places.

If a thief stole my stuff and I killed him, isn't that disproportionate? Why is my stuff more important than a human life?

When is the line of self defense when one is being attacked? What if it happened in your own home? Stand your ground laws etc.

Feminists aren’t insisting that since the gender wage gap for the same job and level is nearly identical (.99 to 1.01 for every dollar earned by a man) that maybe women should pay on first dates now.

Some do actually. But also between abortion laws, rape cases where rape kits get lost (and in the US until recent campaigning you had to pay for your own rape kit), and police officers and lawyers going "ok but what were you wearing" and in the UK "oh but see you were wearing pretty underwear that I will parade in the court room. So you must have wanted it" and in spain "oh you were gang raped but because you were grabbed, scared or drunk and you didn't actually say the word no it doesn't count"...

Yeah actually who pays for dates is pretty far down what feminists give a fuck about.

Feminists aren’t insisting that anyone can and should propose to any other partner (my very feminist friend is very pissed at me cause I asked her boyfriend why not wait for her to propose to him)

Most of my friends don't propose the traditional wag anyway. In 99% of the cases marriage was already talked about and discussed. In some of it they designed the engagement rings together. The question wasn't "the man will propose" the question was: "we're getting married are we going to bother with a romantic proposal".

Look anecdote for an anecdote!

But again, don't propose if you don't want to. Same as paying for dates. Anyone can propose. Yes many couples still play out gender roles to a certain extent and many feminists don't believe in gender roles either. It's all part of the same conversation.

Feminists aren’t proposing that men who communicated that they don’t want children before sex, in a society where abortions are freely accessible, should be able to relinquish their rights and responsibilities before the abortion period in the case of an accidental pregnancy.

The problem with pregnancy is that biology isn't equal. Men are physically stronger than women. Women give birth.

This means that on a reproductive level women always has:

more responsibility to prevent or carry a pregnancy. No one cares if any prospective father smokes. Everyone would be up in arms if a pregnant woman did.
more rights to their own body, where often the reproductive process takes place. A man shouldn't have a say in what happens to my body.

Now in theory paper abortions make sense, assuming the state will pay for the child.

But most countries (and a good proportion of tax payers) would oppose that. I personally don't, but lots of people don't even want to help sick people gain healthcare through taxes or help disabled people through taxes. They probably won't take too kindly to the proposal of being responsible for a child.

You could argue then that the women should financially deal with the cost alone. But then you get the thorny issue of "should children suffer from the mistake of their parents" which is another controversy and discussion in and of itself.

Tldr, issue is complicated and isn't just a feminist one. Its a combination of different views on community and capitalism and taxes.

There’s a divorce lawyer who says that the purest way to drive feminism out of a woman is have her ordered to pay alimony.

Alimony is gender neutral and is likely to be non-existent in the current era. Alimony is generally awarded to people who take time off work to raise children (and/or got married to ultra mega rich. Sorry I don't give a shit about the problems of the 1% eat the rich, free Luigi etc).

The easiest way to avoid alimony is to not have a stay at home parent.

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Outside_Memory5703 · 2025-03-07T15:28:23+00:00

The ones I have an issue with are biases, not privileges

greedyleopard42 · 2025-03-09T19:55:59+00:00

Of course. everything i can think of- in terms of physical assault for example, i don’t think women should get leeway. if two people are fighting i do think if one is much weaker and smaller, maybe they should get some sympathy if the other person full on decks them, and yeah that’ll often be women, but if a woman and man of about equal fighting capacity are having a brawl there’s no reason we should just protect the “poor woman”

Sophiatab · 2025-03-07T16:38:39+00:00

Women don't have any actually privileges in current society. We are slightly less abused, but that's about it.

SwimmingTheme3736 · 2025-03-07T16:16:52+00:00

As a feminist I believe in equality Women should be treated well, as should men.

Young girls should be protected as should young boys.

Children should have the chance to have a good relationship with both parents. 50/50 should be a starting point. This also cuts down on child maintance.

Maternity and paternity leave needs to be a decent length, dads need to not but shut out when it comes to babies and young children.

Stop judging men and pedos for working with children.

Stop sociaity assuming mum will do everything.

Raise all our children to be self sufficient.

Stop judging girls by what clothes they are wearing.

Better mental health services for all, and tailored to the need of the person.

I could go on but I’m working

Redalico · 2025-03-07T19:08:29+00:00

Though men benefit from patriarchy, patriarchy has also long list of negative effects on men. These effects range widely, from poor mental health, over representation of dangerous jobs, stigmatization of emotion, alienation, murder, the under reporting of sexual assault, the draft (these are only a few examples). This cumulates in the fact the most men in most places in the world have a significantly lower life expectancy than women. Many of these forms of oppression that men experience also need to be viewed through an intersectional lens, thinking about race, class, disability status, sexuality etc. The feminism that I am interested and work towards recognizes that patriarchy negatively affects both men and women, though men also experience some benefits from patriarchy, those benefits are not equally distributed and like most systems of oppression concentrates the majority of the benefits to a small minority of the population. It also recognizes the role that women play in perpetuating patriarchal systems that harm both men and women. Every time a mother tells her son “boys don’t cry” or a gf tells her bf to “that’s gay” when he expresses interest in a traditionally “feminine” pastime, that woman is building the very same structure of power that oppresses her. Many feminists advocate for getting rid of the draft, increased access to mental health services, protections in the work place etc. Working together to tear down patriarchal power structures will result in a better, healthier, happier, more peaceful world for all of us

SayuriKitsune · 2025-03-08T07:28:25+00:00

When pussypassdenied was full of videos of women physically assaulting men, and men retaliating the feminist position wasn’t that these are 2 adults, one instigator and one who defended themselves. No, it was that man is using disproportionate force cause he’s too powerful. You wouldn’t hit a child who hit you…

No one should hit each other, regardless of gender. Violence is never the answer

Feminists aren’t insisting that since the gender wage gap for the same job and level is nearly identical (.99 to 1.01 for every dollar earned by a man) that maybe women should pay on first dates now.

Sometimes they paid for dates, sometimes I paid, sometimes we did 50/50. I don't expect anyone to pay, is just a nice gesture if it happens. I like to pay If I had a nice date, why not treat them? Its a nice thing to do, why is such a big problem??

Feminists aren’t insisting that anyone can and should propose to any other partner (my very feminist friend is very pissed at me cause I asked her boyfriend why not wait for her to propose to him)

Whoever wants to propose , should propose

There’s a divorce lawyer who says that the purest way to drive feminism out of a woman is have her ordered to pay alimony.

bigger salary, is the one who pays if necessary

False-Purple3882 · 2025-03-08T11:27:14+00:00

feminism is defined by feminists as equality of the sexes

It’s very frustrating that men forget there’s different subsets of feminists whenever it’s convenient for them to do so. Many feminists don’t define feminism this way. Radical feminists explicitly don’t. This is a watered down definition that simply enables males to derail feminist discussions.

feminists don’t believe in equality

No, feminists simply aren’t concerned with issues impacting men. Because feminism is for women.

women have some privileges for being women

Name them.

attendquoi · 2025-03-07T19:26:55+00:00

Do you have any examples of privilege that have nothing to do with dating or sex?

Title	Q4W who identify with feminism. Are there any priveleges that mostly benefit women you’re advocating to give up in the name of equality.
Author	Odd_Book_9024
Upvotes	18
Comments	231
Date	March 7, 2025 2:01 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1j5ojzf/q4w_who_identify_with_feminism_are_there_any/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/q4w-who-identify-with-feminism-are-there-any.1545861 https://theredarchive.com/post/1545861

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