Women, in order to avoid abusive males, shun the completely opposite demographic.

EulenWatcher · 2025-05-11T17:56:06+00:00

Isn't it the just world fallacy?

Extraverted and pretty men aren't necessarily abusive. Introverted and shy less attractive guys aren't necessary good partners. Men from both groups can be abusive. Men from both groups can be good partners. Most women date men who aren't abusive, so I'd guess most women do avoid abusive men with a relatively high success rate.

Tylikcat · 2025-05-11T19:15:33+00:00

You claim "tall, broad-shouldered, extroverted, tough, aggressive" men are most likely to be abusive. But this is cultural stereotype, not data. The data I've seen shows the risk factors are exposure to domestic violence in childhood, being a victim of domestic abuse in childhood, other trauma, and drug abuse. Which maps not at all to what you state above.

I've had two men I was involved with attempt to abuse me. One was my ex husband - who was a long haired pretty boy of the elven type. He attempted both to rape me and physically assault me in a non sexual manner - both some ten years into our relationship. Neither ended well for him. (Which has more to do with my strength and martial arts training then any lack on his part - we'd trained together for most of our relationship.)

The other was one of the guys who was shorter than me who I've dated. Maybe 5'8"? - I'm 5'11", so it's not like you have to be especially short to be shorter than me. In his case, he told me with a shit eating grin that he no longer minded my sexual boundaries, because after I took the highly sedating medication I took at night for a neck injury, I didn't say no. (This one still just makes me shudder to think of. The whole idea of being unconscious, and having that asshole take advantage...)

Anyhow, he was another nerd - decent enough looking, I guess? But definitely no Chad, nor extroverted, tough or aggressive. He mostly sad panda'd his way into my bed, and I hadn't dumped him largely because I was moving soon, which made for a natural end to things.

(Apparently about one in four men will commit domestic violence during their lives. The number of abusers I've dated is *way* lower than that.)

I think we would do well to think of all of the losers who turn to abuse to feel like they have power over someone, even if they have little success in the rest of their lives. Similarly, rapists are at least as likely, and I think likelier, to be sneak thieves and scavengers - most are known to the victim, and in many cases they take advantage of inebriation.

UpbeatInsurance5358 · 2025-05-11T18:02:50+00:00

You seem to have a weird idea regarding men, women and abusive men.

DGenerationMC · 2025-05-11T21:25:54+00:00

I don't see the issue here.

These women get to feel like they're in control. And the men who aren't abusive, if they have any self-respect, aren't bothered because those women are dropping out to make way for women who don't put those restrictions on themselves. The ~~trash~~ incompatible takes itself out, which makes less work for the "good" men that can focus and have a better chance of being directed toward those who actually want them for who they are rather prejudge/fear them for what they are.

"The most unattractive kind of person is one who doesn't want you in return."

Meanwhile, the abusive men will keep on being abusive. The status quo doesn't really change, so who (out of the three categories I've mentioned) actually loses here?

TheAvocadoSlayer · 2025-05-11T18:03:17+00:00

What is it about being short, shy, and awkward that would automatically make him not abusive or capable of cheating?

2025-05-11T18:57:18+00:00

Can’t you just say “nobody can love anyone else without risk”?

They’re never going to be able to tell, at first glance.

You can’t slice the male population by who is abusive or not.

Even weak men are typically stronger than women. They hate it. They try to protect themselves from it, and understandably so.

The better discussion is - what use is a person’s love if they are too afraid to risk?

Maybe that’s what men these days are most angry with women for.

I can’t prove to you that I’m not a murderer. But you can’t love me if you don’t trust me in turn.

And if you don’t trust men, if you build all the safety walls around yourself, fine.

But it’s pointless and hollow. And impossible besides.

waffleznstuff30 · 2025-05-11T18:13:21+00:00

The unattractive man does not always mean a good guy.

A lot of women have a story about a guy they gave a chance to. And he ended up doing them really dirty. Because your appearance doesn't dictate how nice you will be. Short introverted chubby men can be absolute demons too.

Let people choose who they want to be with. You can't predict the outcome of someone's behavior externally.

SnooCats37 · 2025-05-11T18:09:04+00:00

The guy who abused me for years was none of those things, he was an introverted, awkward gamer who took advantage of the fact i was 15 and vulnerable as I was being abused at home.

Outside_Memory5703 · 2025-05-11T23:44:27+00:00

Nope. Shy/introverted wouldn’t be putting themselves out there; short and awkward is just unattractive

atmos2022 · 2025-05-12T12:07:31+00:00

All these generalizations about women are making me question if I’m actually a woman (/s)

I only had all of 2 boyfriends in my life, my now-husband being the #2 (so grateful to have found my person). Hell, I’m 27 years old and only kissed a total of 7 guys in my life (from age 14-21). Could have been more, but I didn’t want to!

I know tons of people with a very long list of past partners (which is fine in and of itself), many of which were clearly (to me anyway) not the right match.

I know what qualities in a person I like and which qualities to avoid. When I was single and would be chatting with a guy online for a couple days, things would be fun and cool, but it would break down after the first in-person meet.

In short, I’ve been highly selective with the prospective partners that I invest time and effort into, and it was definitely not wasted on guys that didn’t fit my dating criteria. I don’t see why you’re generalizing that women are fawning over the same guys they abhor.

HotOutcome9161 · 2025-05-12T03:56:58+00:00

Abusive men dont have a look. Just because a guy is ugly doesnt mean he will treat you right.

Someone on here once said attractive guys are more likely to be respectful to women because they have good experiences with women. Men who don‘t get female attention are the onces building resentment and being hateful.

Suspicious_Glove7365 · 2025-05-11T17:58:52+00:00

Women don’t “always” go for abusers. You essentially just claimed that every woman in a relationship is in one with an abuser. You also are assuming that all Chads are abusers. I hate to break it to you, but plenty of hot, “high value” guys are really nice, unabusive partners. And plenty of ugly men are abusive assholes. Incels often say the exact things that indicate that they would be abusive if they had the chance. and I’m thankful that a lot of them don’t have the chance.

I bet the idea of a kind, nice, loving man who is also hot makes your blood boil.

hakunaa-matataa · 2025-05-11T18:23:30+00:00

You’re asking us to not judge someone by their appearance… by judging someone for their appearance.

Just because someone is 6’2” doesn’t make them abusive. There is no scientific correlation to height, attractiveness, weight, etc. to being abusive. Anyone can be abusive, and painting one entire subsection of people as abusive/bad based on the way they look is something we’ve been trying to NOT do for the past century or so.

floracalendula · 2025-05-11T19:07:45+00:00

However, they always go for exactly the demographic of guys who do these things: tall, broad-shouldered, extroverted, tough, aggressive, douchebag type guys.

I never have. And I got abused anyway.

So I stopped dating entirely for nine years, got a glow-up, and when I did start dating, went for men who were closer to your "polar opposite".

NoBlacksmith8137 · 2025-05-11T22:01:29+00:00

I think this take overlooks some important realities many women have actually lived through. It’s not that we assume shy or awkward men are dangerous, it’s that some of the most uncomfortable, boundary-crossing behavior we’ve experienced has come from men who present themselves as “nice” or vulnerable.

I pretty recently tried to be kind to a neighbor in a wheelchair who seemed very lonely. I offered to help if he ever needed anything. But soon after, he started watching whether my car was parked to track if I was home, repeatedly asked me to come over and texted about how much he loved hearing my voice. I had only shown empathy, but his behavior became intrusive and unsettling.

This kind of experience isn’t rare. So-called “nice guys” often make us feel guilty for not giving them a chance, as if we owe them something for their niceness. It’s not a real connection, it’s a kind of emotional pressure. Also men who are considered “players” often don’t come across as obsessive or emotionally invasive. Ironically, their detachment can feel safer, because they’re not trying to insert themselves into your life and space in uncomfortable ways.

So no, it’s not that women conflate awkwardness with danger, it’s that many women have experienced obsessive or boundary-crossing behavior from men who seemed harmless at first. These situations are hard to navigate because the man may not be physically intimidating, but the intensity and entitlement can still feel violating. And when we express discomfort, we’re told we’re being “mean to nice guys.”

Ultimately, it’s often the most empathetic women, the ones who try to be kind, who give people the benefit of the doubt, who end up facing obsessive, controlling, or manipulative behavior from all kinds of men. The problem isn’t “alpha males vs beta males” it’s a lack of respect for boundaries and an assumption that women owe affection in return for basic decency.

StaleSushiRolls · 2025-05-11T18:50:03+00:00

Chads, high-value males, alpha males, whatever you want to call them, are the ones who hate women and abuse them

Do they, though? Why are you assuming that?

You know who abuses women? Insecure men. Who tends to be the most insecure men? "Incels and low-value males", who are convinced the world is unfair because they don't get matches on tinder.

Ironically, "chads" are usually confident and chill. They aren't scorned by women. They don't expect to get got by them at every turn.

fiftypoundpuppy · 2025-05-11T19:47:29+00:00

Oh? So we should date most of the men here instead and that'll work out better for us? The guys who think women shouldn't be able to vote? The guys who think we have an obligation to have children? The guys who think we're evil for being sexually attracted to men based on looks, just like they are for women?

There's zero evidence that most abusive men are "above average" in any capacity

FaultySchematic · 2025-05-11T23:57:18+00:00

You’re getting this all wrong. The chads you talk about? Those are the men women will consider when they talk about men. The incels are not people to them- you’re not taking the blame, you don’t even exist.

klaire_bear_ · 2025-05-11T19:29:18+00:00

This is nonsense and not true. Go outside. Get offline.

You are saying that the first type of men are rapists and the second type aren't. This isn't true. How many women have yoy spoken to? Abusers come in all shapes and sizes. This view is toxic af

Impossible-Layer-991 · 2025-05-12T02:01:45+00:00

I don't particularly think women love assholes. I think it's more of a case that most women want the full package, like they want everything, but they don't want everything equally, among the traits they are willing to dispense with (if they can't have it all) in their potential partners, are intelligence, loyalty and kindness. It's not really true that women love assholes. Let's say you can work at two companies, and in one company you could have this really awesome boss, like the boss really cares about you, supports your goals, really invests in helping you advance your career, understands when you want to take time off, values your perspective, I mean this boss has all the best intangibles. That's one possibility. However at the other company, you would have a boss, who quite frankly doesn't give a shit about your dreams and goals, and is really just interested in using you for the labour that you can provide, but he pays you 4 times as much as the 1st company, gives you unlimited time off, and offers you an amazing benefit package. Which of these two companies are you gonna work for? The vast majority of people, are going to be willing to put up with this boss not caring about them.

BobtheArcher2018 · 2025-05-11T18:07:15+00:00

You are missing the point. Due to the conditions women evolved under, there are innate tensions at the heart of their mate choice dynamics, on average. And there is some correlation between the traits women typically find primally attractive in men and the potential for such men to be abusive. How strong that correlation is, at scale, is a complicated discussion.

But even if we stipulate for the sake of this argument that the correlation is very high, this would just mean women should avoid such men. It wouldn't mean women should choose men they do not find attractive. I believe that culture and environment do play a big role, and in the right culture and environment, enough decent men can be found sufficiently attractive for the necessary heterosexual pairing rate a healthy society needs.

BUT, at any given time and place, women are only attracted to whomever they are actually attracted to. You can't ask women to just pair with good guys the women have no desire for because the ones the women do find hot are bad for them. You have to do the cultural work first to somehow get to a state where enough good partners are also desirable sexually.

Downtown_Cat_1745 · 2025-05-11T20:01:05+00:00

Most of the guys who embrace the manosphere aren’t nice. Also, when we do go for nice guys, you call them white knight beta simps

MiddleZealousideal89 · 2025-05-11T20:03:18+00:00

Totally anecdotal, but of the people I've dated, most of the conventionally attractive guys were great, only one of them was a giant turd. Of the less conventionally attractive guys, I'd say it was an even split between decent dudes and shitheads. Neither group was physically abusive, but gaslighty and manipulative? You had both hot and mid dudes doing that shit.

There's nothing that makes a hot person an inherently shitty person, and there's nothing that makes a mid dude an inherently good person. Assholes come in all shapes and sizes, so do good, decent people.

ScruffleKun · 2025-05-11T18:20:34+00:00

However, they always go for exactly the demographic of guys who do these things: tall, broad-shouldered, extroverted, tough, aggressive, douchebag type guys.

On the other hand, women assume that the polar opposite demographic of guys: short, shy, awkward, introverted, hopeless romantics, are actually the ones who hate women and who intend to abuse them.

That’s a nice argument, why don’t you back it up with a source?

Also, do you think male Kpop stars are "tall, broad-shouldered, extroverted, tough, aggressive, douchebag type guys?" Was Justin Bieber that? Bill Kaulitz? Jacko? Prince? David Bowie?

BobtheArcher2018 · 2025-05-11T18:08:32+00:00

[permanently deleted]

PurplePillDebate-ModTeam · 2025-05-11T18:25:20+00:00

[permanently deleted]

aslfingerspell · 2025-05-11T18:05:51+00:00

I don't see a trend in what kinds of men abuse victims fall for. It's not about attractiveness or even "being a provider" in the traditional sense.

My understanding is that a lot of "relationships" below a certain income level are survival sex/duty sex situations where it's less about how tall he is than the fact that a jobless "boyfriend" who stays home to watch the kids is cheaper than daycare. Middle class people who get zero matches after paying for Tinder look at something like that and say "How does such an ugly guy pull above his league?" but for the vast majority of people in human history "relationships" were for economics and security while "romance" was, well, a romantic ideal.

Poverty seems "stupid" at times but the constraints and trauma of it create lots of situations that middle class people find unfathomable.

Women, at a certain level of desperation in life, have grave tradeoffs to "decide". Do I stay with my abusive partner or do I leave and become homeless?

KayRay1994 · 2025-05-11T18:03:23+00:00

No…. Women don’t assume a ‘nice guy’ will abuse them because you’re a creep, women are put off by you because you’re a creep. A harmless, slithering worm like person is still creepy and can be perverted even if technically harmless.

Also…. Tall, broad shouldered, extroverted, tough, etc =/= abusive. This sounds like envy talking on your end.

Abusers can be tall handsome men or ugly weirdos. Difference is the tall handsome abusers get a chance to actually be abusive because in order to actually be manipulative you have to play at something people want…. The incel type has nothing to offer outside of emotional entitlement.

So cut it with the “we’re the good guys! The hot guys you want, they’re the bad guys!” Cause frankly if you were actually truly good, you wouldn’t have such a mindset

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ShelterOk4035 · 2025-05-11T21:47:21+00:00

nice guys are not masculine

Acrobatic-Writer7734 · 2025-05-11T23:03:27+00:00

I want a nice guy. But he also must be really hot.

Heres the thing. Testosterone drives fearless behaviour and also physical size. That's just what test does and how it works fellas. I don't write the rules of biochem and nature, wish I did.

The girls go for aggressive giga Chad for some reason in today's age, thinking he can provide for her when it's the smaller male who instead is resourceful and maintains peace and social order that gets ahead instead.

If women believed in small ans skinny guys more, these small and skinny guys build courage to fight: for size, for women, for power and place and authority.

Women can lose weight. Little guys can gain size.

Humans change.

Invest in the mind, not the body. The body needs to have potential, but you can't work with a faulty mind.

I am once again as a former skinny guy who found my sweetheart, advocating for girls to look our way. We are just late bloomers. We have lots to offer you.

toad-wrangler · 2025-05-12T14:57:56+00:00

For what it's worth, the only time I've been in danger in the company of a guy was random stanger "beta males". I know there isn't one look for all bad guys, but, in my experience, the more desparate/sexless the guy, the more boundaries they try to cross.

Powerful_Monitor3659 · 2025-05-12T18:50:40+00:00

tall, broad-shouldered, extroverted, tough,

Can you provide studies that show these traits correlate witg abusive behaviour?

Zestyclose_Sugar4573 · 2025-05-14T02:26:31+00:00

I was rejected by someone who was intimidated by my muscular legs. She ended up with a guy who often breaks her arm.

Zestyclose_Sugar4573 · 2025-05-14T02:49:11+00:00

It may appear this way on the surface since in order for these men to abuse them, these abused women must have initially liked these men in order to have been with them somehow. Whereas, those men who do not like women may not like them because they feel that women don't like them. I don't favor either group of men because of their bad behavior towards women.

Schleudergang1400 · 2025-05-14T14:35:41+00:00

However, they always go for exactly the demographic of guys who do these things: tall, broad-shouldered, extroverted, tough, aggressive, douchebag type guys.

No, "they" don't. It takes a special kind of childhood experience to be drawn to aggressive douchebags. What is more likely, is that women are drawn to attractive/desirable men, despite them being aggressive douchebags.

On the other hand, women assume

No, you assume what women assume.

: short, shy, awkward, introverted, hopeless romantics, are actually the ones who hate women and who intend to abuse them.

You are intentionally mixing irrelevant traits into this description. The relevant traits are: Aggressive douchebag vs calm/non-aggressive respectful man.

Short/tall, broad, shy, awkward, introverted/extraverted, hopeless romantic, tough have nothing to do with if someone is aggressive, a douchebag or an abuser.

Women derogatorily call them terms like "Nice Guy", "creep" etc and scapegoat them for the actions of the first category of men.

No, nice guys can also be tall, broad, shy, extraverted, ... niceguy is a spineless people pleaser who is deeply insecure and tries to manipulate people with inauthentic niceness. A creep is someone who doesn't understand/follow social norms, seems unpredictable while showing sexual interest. Those types are unattractive for their own reasons and do not require to punished for what attractive aggressive/douchebag men did.

Chads, high-value males, alpha males, whatever you want to call them, are the ones who hate women and abuse them, and incels, low-value males, beta males etc get all the blame for it and are shunned by women and society in general as a result, while the actual perpetrators get away scot-free and continue doing what they do.

Every day on this sub, i see incels and low value males, who state that they hate women, or who show by their views and behaviors that they treat women bad. The men, who are desired by women, who post/comment on this sub, haven't shown even close to the same toxic and unattractive behavior and views towards women.

I don't know if you realize it, but your post here is not reflective of a kind person. You stereotype men with attractive traits as abusers and men who have unattractive traits as saints, incapable of being abusers. Your frustration with your own (probably) situation makes you mistreat others, reject accountability and be delusional to the true issues.

Niceguys, incels, etc. are viewed as abusers because of their ideology/views/behavior, not because they actually punch women in the face. Of course, that's a heuristic and not true for every incel or niceguy, but with threads like this, you keep solidifying the stereotype.

No_senses · 2025-05-14T20:37:46+00:00

People are really entertaining this incel/nice guy post?

Zestyclose_Sugar4573 · 2025-05-15T03:04:19+00:00

It would appear that women who are more economically dependent on men usually end up more vulnerable to being abused because their economic options are more limited. Also, abusers come in all shapes and sizes so there is no way in telling who is an abuser and who is not until they start to abuse or have a history of prior abuse.

Alert_Many_1196 · 2025-05-15T18:49:35+00:00

Except I've experienced the opposite in reality as someone who was into nerd culture before it became mainstream.

2025-05-17T19:13:20+00:00

even as a redpill leaning guy, this is a bit of a stretch, abusers come in all shapes and sizes.

though I do agree that women are drawn to people who show abusive or aggressive tendencies and overlook their problematic behaviour because they do find them attractive

SSSllmJiimmm · 2025-05-20T08:36:08+00:00

I think your assertion/premise about the burden of abusiveness is unfair. An assumption implicit in your argument is that the physical attributes of the "high-value" males correlate with abusiveness (big guy = abusive, small guy = not abusive).

As many have brought up, this is an inaccurate assumption. (it's a false equivalence. Short men can still be abusive.) The whole "nice guy" trope mentioned is based on emotionally unhealthy and abusive men acting a certain way to manipulate/coerce an outcome.

Personally, I don't think any of the parties mentioned hate women. I think more accurate would be to say, clear from both those who treat women poorly and those who complain about not having the opportunity (whether they take it or not), many fail to see women as whole human beings.

Edit: I think I should mention, the idea that abusers could be/are more attractive is an interesting sociological/psychological question (though possibly just a statistical one).

RayAP19 · 2025-05-11T20:47:08+00:00

The real way to avoid abusive partners is to prioritize non-abusive qualities and disregard superficial ones (looks, resources, status).

So 10/10 Tim isn't emotionally available, doesn't know how to communicate consistently, doesn't show signs of actually being interested in you. He doesn't try to get to know you for you and having a good conversation with him is like pulling teeth.

7/10 Sam sends you a good morning text every day, gives you space when you ask for it, doesn't make inappropriate jokes, doesn't talk about sex, doesn't pressure you to do things like drink or spend time behind closed doors, etc.

Give Sam more of your time and attention. Don't put up with Tim and prioritize him just because he's so hot.

I'm not saying it'll always be that black and white, but that is my perspective, and I feel like a lot of guys would agree that's how we perceive the general situation.

Could I/we be wrong? Definitely. That's the point of communities like this. For people to educate themselves and no longer be misinformed when they happen to be.

wtknight · 2025-05-11T22:30:27+00:00

[permanently deleted]

KamuiObito · 2025-05-11T20:13:09+00:00

Women live in the present. The moment. So nothing matters until it does. This is why they don’t care to date/ marry highly promiscuous men while still highly expecting commitment. They have no ability to like look much further ahead they go off what they are feeling now and not how they might feel later on.

So any mf who can just lie,manipulate,be charismatic ..etc is always gonna have a women around. As they are susceptible. Very very.

Sb more humble and generally socially aware won’t have as much success.

Basically women respond to the loudest and best Lair/manipulator in the room most of the time. If you can do that bs you can have almost any girl.

Narcissistic men aren’t the incels, Chad dude bros who took down their whole friend group aren’t being avoided like incels..none of the men who are easily ya know traversing women will struggle. It’s the guys who are socially aware and care and understanding ya know normal PEOPLE. that will be ignored for sb literally harassing her on the street. But if she likes it enough it works..

But Ive notice most of it in this environment is mainly resources bro only has a wife because he’s willing and in position to take care of another adults which would be ideal for any human. Men are just socially the ones put in this position while that same woman refuses to buy you a burger.

I personally will not allow anyone to love me based on resource or what I could provide. If society collapsed you’ll just leave me for some big bulky dude. That’s not love it’s survival.. if you are doing it im gonna exploit it to the highest degree. I’ll date you but..ya im finna get extremely narcissistic. I’m basically the adult.

SherbertDense1415 · 2025-05-11T19:30:02+00:00

You bunched a bunch of different qualities together. A short man can still physically dominate a woman for example.

Also cheating vs abuse. Completely different things.

Title	Women, in order to avoid abusive males, shun the completely opposite demographic.
Author	serventofgaben
Upvotes	102
Comments	386
Date	May 11, 2025 10:59 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1kjyeg1/women_in_order_to_avoid_abusive_males_shun_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/women-in-order-to-avoid-abusive-males-shun-the.1551932 https://theredarchive.com/post/1551932

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