Self-Improvement will NOT improve your attractiveness to women

krackedy · 2025-09-17T12:19:00+00:00

Self improvement isn't just "therapy". It's getting in shape, getting in a good place financially, gaining confidence, cultivating friendships, getting involved in different hobbies and becoming an interesting, fun, well rounded person.

Therapy doesn't necessarily have to be part of it.

WanabeInflatable · 2025-09-17T12:26:56+00:00

IDGAF is a part of self improvement outcome.

If your life is good, you enjoy it, you are doing good without that specific woman and can afford losing her. So if she is not interested, pissed, angry - you just block her and go on with little regret.

Head-Language-2977 · 2025-09-17T19:10:13+00:00

In 2025, the “man who attends therapy and opens up about his growth journey” is the new “women love a man with a sense of humor”.

Re-Clue2401 · 2025-09-17T12:31:28+00:00

I don’t mean this as an insult, but I am starting to think this forum is filled with the mentally ill, both men and women. You operate in extremes, presenting black and white logic, which is a sign of delayed development. Then you double down with false dilemma fallacies.

Believe it or not, there are a million different possibilities between the two options you listed. On top of that, the options you gave do not even correlate with your base premise about the cause and effect of self-improvement.

There is zero indication from the two archetypes you described whether they are, or are not, the self-improvement type. I used to be the “I don’t give a fuck” guy running through women, but self-improvement was my entire personality. I lost 150 pounds, gained 30 pounds of muscle, advanced in my career, and expanded my knowledge. I was disgusted by weakness, so if you were around me, it was either level up or level up. I didn't give people a choice.

2xdrgn · 2025-09-17T12:59:58+00:00

OP understands the female perspective of the issue: that women are attracted more to guys who don’t need to ‘work on themselves’ because the guy who just looks good is the guy who has the good genes. It’s more of an illusion though; they want the lean tall guy with muscle on his frame and natural confidence who is just born like that, not the guy who obsessed about gym progress and diet to reach that same level of physical excellence.

The trick is to be the guy who lifts weights and diets but hides that fact and never makes it part of his personality, basically create the illusion that you have the genetics and lifestyle that results in having a nice physique but don’t admit that it’s the obsession with the gym, diet, supplements etc that makes you look like that.

PurplePillDebate-ModTeam · 2025-09-17T12:28:44+00:00

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Solondthewookiee · 2025-09-17T13:11:06+00:00

A) that would depend heavily on the woman

B) why are you assuming the cocky guy hasn't done self improvement too?

C) therapy is not the sole form of self improvement

D) self improvement is done for its own sake, not because you think it will get you laid

GraceOfTheNorth · 2025-09-17T12:51:07+00:00

This kind of mentality ensures you never reach personal growth.

Former_Range_1730 · 2025-09-17T13:08:29+00:00

That's weird because it worked for me.

TheCultOfGrogg · 2025-09-17T14:09:39+00:00

It really won’t. Self-help gurus just needed a problem to solve, to sell you something.

-Breakup or rejection hurts? -Buy my product (watch to my vids for ads, patreon, buy my course, book a call, etc) -Does it work? -Fuck do I care, they bought it.

detransdyke · 2025-09-17T12:43:12+00:00

I've genuinely only ever had any interest in men who fit the former personality type you described. I've both hooked up with and seriously dated them over the years, and I am now married to a wonderful soft-spoken man whose quiet confidence is waaaay sexier than the overblown performative posturing that ~chads~ do. It's honestly embarrassing when wannabe-ass machitos put on the bravado and "swagger" of false confidence, peak cringe.

Lemon_gecko · 2025-09-17T12:19:07+00:00

I don't know, i'd prefer the one who treats me better, sexy, flirting and interesting. Which one of those men is that?

DzejSiDi · 2025-09-17T13:23:36+00:00

Wow, almost everything in this post is incorrect, that's kinda impressive. Including

Women seem to be in love with the idea of liking the "improover"

Women fantasize about natural-born "alpha success man", not about somebody who changed himself or painfully molded himself into his current "me".

You don't even know ANY self-improving tips/possibilities besides therapy, lmao.

attendquoi · 2025-09-17T13:21:50+00:00

I don't understand the examples you're giving. Nothing got me to a position of not giving a fuck faster than therapy.

GrandpaDallas · 2025-09-17T13:44:09+00:00

Huh. It did for me.

I've always been a pretty nice, soft spoken man. Attending therapy helped me get a lot more comfortable in my skin and process my emotions, and I've been very open about my growth journey. I've found that since then, in my dating life, women have been smitten over this quality about me.

The current woman I'm with tells me she is obsessed with hanging out with me because of my positive energy and comfort in my own skin.

Tylikcat · 2025-09-17T12:48:06+00:00

A lot of it also depends on your starting point. Therapy can be a way to work on your confidence and work through your depression and self sabotage. (Whereas most people who want to talk about their work in therapy, especially early on, are pretty cringey. Though like everything, it depends on how it's done.)

Aromatic-Following98 · 2025-09-18T02:45:02+00:00

Blah blah nonsense women speak

Nothing will improve your attractiveness like getting down to 12% body fat and after that nothing will help like getting all muscle groups to a basic level of development. .

Icyfemboy · 2025-09-17T12:22:26+00:00

Self improvement is subjective, getting a hair transplant, lean bulking and being confident/socially savvy will certainly improve your attractiveness to women but as always your mileage varies on your base, the better base you have the more your self improvement will amplify the results, for some folks no amount of improvement will do anything but that’s not the case for the average failure of a normie.

James_M_Croft · 2025-09-17T12:50:50+00:00

Your issue is thinking that a nice soft-spoken man who attends therapy is "self-improvement"

No, that is being a meaningless drone. Just like she is. That is boring

Being actually better is fitting yourself to one's needs. And if you want sex, you want to be interesting.

And what is interesting to a person who is so privileged they can be just a meaningless drone and still succeed in life? being the cocky dude with a don't-give-a-fuck attitude toward life

If you wanna be yourself, be our guest, it is just unlikely to work, unless you are one of those people already.

CreepyVictorianDolls · 2025-09-17T13:15:57+00:00

Part of self improvement is loving yourself and being hung up on whether or not other people like you.

Smart-Mall4110 · 2025-09-17T13:16:53+00:00

Nah, these are both people that are not very self-aware; many people use others to boost their esteem, regulate them, and to avoid the realities of their life. That aloof bad boy cannot tell you why he is upset or angry, but he can tell you that it is someone else's fault.

hungrychick404 · 2025-09-17T13:17:28+00:00

Therapy and forcing myself to go outside when I’m feeling under socialized makes me more confident than when I am a mentally ill shut in

PoeticMoose619 · 2025-09-17T13:28:00+00:00

Respectfully, I would disagree.

Self-improvement encompasses many areas. Therapy is one of them, and I do believe that if a man has some sort of mental health issues or unresolved traumas, going through that may improve a man's long-term desirability. If given the choice between a man who has dealt with issues versus one who hasn't, I'm sure most women will choose the former.

Most men tend to mean self-improvement in the context of regular exercise, which will definitely make men more desirable to women, especially for those who want short-term relationships. Women may not be attracted to huge bodybuilders, but most women like men who have lean muscle mass. I'd say anywhere between 10-15% body fat, as that's somewhat sustainable. Less than that is for male models or competitors.

Money and status can go either way, I think. Some women place a big value on those things, others don't. They can help, certainly, though.

Improving your verbal seduction skills and sexual confidence can be just as, if not more important than looks, money, and status, in my opinion. That works for long-term and short-term desirability. That's where the "bad boys" excel; they have that in spades. If men learn to increase their natural charisma and sexual confidence, they can definitely attract more women, or at least more effectively filter out timewasters.

eyewave · 2025-09-17T13:48:17+00:00

I think you're getting it wrong.

The self-improover does so, so he can have his life together and then be rid of his idiot mental blocks and go for the "don't give a damn attitude". That's how I see it for myself...

I'm at a point of life where if I don't improve my environment, no woman will want to be in it, so 😅 and I also don't need to explain everyone how things used to be, what my effort is and where things are now... When it's well-done, you just exist self-improved as if you never would need self-improvement before.

numerberonecynic · 2025-09-17T13:50:09+00:00

Speak for yourself. You can "self-improve" your way into being a generally more desirable person. All else being equal, the in-shape guy with lots of hobbies, well practiced conversational/flirting skills, and a diverse social circle will do better than the same guy without these things.

FadingHonor · 2025-09-17T14:02:23+00:00

Agreed. I improve myself for myself. Lot 57 lbs since January, reached a healthy weight, hit the gym etc. I feel better. Genuinely, I feel nicer.

I improved myself cuz I didn’t wanna feel like shit and will continue improving myself cuz it feels good to improve myself. Not doing it for women.

I think as a whole, men should be told from a young age to not place their self worth and masculinity in their ability to attract women and “bang chicks bro 🤙”

M3taBuster · 2025-09-17T14:44:10+00:00

Self-improvement does make you more attractive to women, just not that kind of self-improvement.

If you put on just enough muscle to look like you lift, cut to 10-15% BF, get a flattering hair style and facial hair style, and dress well, then you've done all you can do to improve your attractiveness to women.

At that point you're at least not ugly, unless your genetics are 1 in a million terrible. And the rest comes down to getting an active coed social life and at least not being socially inept enough to talk yourself out of a date. Which of course is easier said than done for a lot of people (myself included), but that's where you should be focusing your efforts once you get to that point.

Flimsy_Software8105 · 2025-09-17T14:47:14+00:00

This is so ridiculously black and white. Self improvement doesn’t have to mean therapy. It can mean working out, finding some hobbies so you’re somewhat interesting, getting a better job, being physically healthier etc. So many guys don’t even do these basic things and wonder why they struggle

Perfect_Sir4820 · 2025-09-17T14:58:57+00:00

Therapy? Gtfo

Unique_Mind2033 · 2025-09-17T15:43:59+00:00

Self improvement can be as simple as getting toned/fit, learning a skill, etc

You are operating on some weird dichotomy that you read about on the internet. Be careful with the content that u consume

ctrl_f_sauce · 2025-09-17T15:45:31+00:00

The guy who approaches a woman who shows him warmth and he doesn’t pour a cup of water on the warmth. Both strategies fail without warmth.

Outside_Memory5703 · 2025-09-17T16:34:55+00:00

Of course it will

Then we won’t complain about the things you guys are failing at, like earning money, hygiene, being interesting, being social or dressing like an adult

Starcraft_III · 2025-09-17T17:23:32+00:00

Going to therapy isn’t self improvement it’s paying to dump on someone emotionally, you gotta self improve your attractiveness but of course you’re not supposed to fixate in what you used to be and tell the story of the transformation as if it’s supposed to make you better that you used to suck. Women probably like the self-improver guy more than the doomer because while the self improved guy may be insecure at least he puts effort in and lifts etc. Even if you’re not comfortable in your own skin you should act like it, nobody wants someone with deep insecurities unless they intend to manipulate them. Just become as attractive as you can and people like more attractive people more in dating. If people are acting like the process of self improvement makes you ‘better’ than someone who is naturally successful they’re trying to help you cope or trying to look moral. It’s not a moral game, it’s the definition of survival of the fittest.

Dismal-Alfalfa-7613 · 2025-09-17T17:33:59+00:00

Yeah it will. For one, self improvement will make someone less of a needy miserable unpleasant to be around insecure person.

Playful-Walk-754 · 2025-09-17T17:57:31+00:00

Self improvement shouldn't be the rosy feel good self care types. It should be about being physically, financially and mentally competent. The cocky bad boy has the body, experience and attitude. He is an improved version of a guy from a sexual point of view

MistaCreepz · 2025-09-17T19:27:50+00:00

Self improvement worked for me relationship wise, and even if it didn't I still felt great seeing the improvements in my body and feeling the improvements in my mood. Also forcing myself to socialize was hard at first but became natural after a while.

I don't think its a coincidence I had my first GF at 25 about 6 months after I took concrete steps to improve myself.

LoneElement · 2025-09-17T20:12:48+00:00

And if the self improvement helps the person have a don’t-give-a-fuck attitude…?

catdog8020 · 2025-09-17T21:55:49+00:00

According to red pill (evolutionary psychology/social psychology) the key concept of self-improvement is to become the man women want. The problem is that many woman but not all don’t like most men and men are in denial of that fact. Once you understand that most women really don’t like most of the men (at least in England or America) you can decide either to get a passport, learn Spanish and travel (geomaxing) and ignore low effort women. This is the unfortunate reality for most but not all men in the west. Hypergamy is truth.

MarioWilson122 · 2025-09-17T21:57:21+00:00

Therapy is mostly used to help people who are struggling with mental issues.

Which of course can go a long way into helping to build confidence.

Since it is a roadblock to building that. Which of course goes into helping a man produce the idgaf attitude.

darkesthelp · 2025-09-17T22:53:01+00:00

Agree. I've tried everything - very good job, therapy, gym, having more hobbies, being empathetic but not a people pleaser, socializing more, etc, none of it works because I am both anxious and high empathy and women don't like that, they see it as weakness because they want to feel "safe", which translates to physical safety, not emotional.

SteveSan82 · 2025-09-19T04:35:45+00:00

Working out got more women checking me out and trying to initiate conversations. Dressing better it went up.

Self improvement does well

2025-09-19T08:09:26+00:00

Well. If you think you want therapy be ause women like it.

You might actually need therapy for that need for validation of yours.

IridikronsNo1Fan · 2025-09-17T12:17:22+00:00

Broad definition of self-improvement includes going to the gym, making money and increasing your status. Those things definitely do make you more attractive.

throwaway73737828 · 2025-09-17T14:19:14+00:00

You have the wrong idea of self improvement then. Btw the first guys archetype is loved by a lot of women, we all know that one guy who speaks soft and kind and has so many female friends but never gets laid. That type of attitude will make women love you but they aint gonna want to have sex with you.

Anyway, when we talk about self improvement, it means to make money, make muscles, lower body fat, copy the traits of bad boy, increase your confidence, speak better, eliminate your mistakes, increase your IG followers, make a good network etc. Going to theraphy isnt self improvement other things I mentioned is, when you do the other things, you dont want to even go to theraphy. A good life will always be the best mental health improvement more than anything.

growframe · 2025-09-17T13:28:00+00:00

Why can't self-improvement include becoming more cocky, aloof and confident?

If you fake it well enough women won't notice and will psyop themselves into thinking it's effortless anyway

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maxmillius_chaddicus · 2025-09-17T13:18:50+00:00

I went from 0 dates over 10 years to 8 first dates with 8 different women within a two weeks period after updating my photos. And I lost my virginity. And women were throwing themselves at me.

You are wrong dude

AlmostKindaGreat · 2025-09-17T17:49:03+00:00

on a lizard brain level the idgaf dude wins as he is the one who comes across as being comfortable in his own skin rather than someone stressing over becoming a better version of himself

What if a man is not comfortable in his own skin? Should he just accept it and be unattractive for the rest of his life?

I say no. Fuck that. He should do whatever it takes to figure out why he lacks confidence and why he cares so much what others think, deconstruct that, and develop more healthy and attractive mental habits, patterns, and instincts.

This could involve therapy or it could just involve solitary reading and reflecting. Either way it requires hard work but you can change yourself. I did. I am much more confident and care a lot less about the random opinions of others than I used to. I am much more attractive due to the work I put in.

Being yourself just beats becoming yourself lol.

Well, yes. A "natural" is a man who has attractive attitude, mindset, and behaviors without ever consciously trying. He has it all right from the beginning and doesn't need to do any work. This is ideal but most of us are not lucky enough to be naturals. Just Be Yourself only applies to men who are already attractive. The rest of us have to work for it. And that's fine. We can get there.

-Pixxell- · 2025-09-17T22:58:52+00:00

Do you think all confident dudes were just born confident or did they work to become a person they are confident to be?

I’m not a guy but in my personal experience the time I felt the most happy & confident within myself when I was actively working on being the best version of myself as possible (focused on health, exercise, fashion, skincare, sleep, being social, building skills, my career and hobbies) and when I was at my most confident other people even commented on how I glowed up and was more attractive. Alternatively, the times where I was depressed, socially withdrawn, not working towards any goals, etc. I was the least confident in myself and less enjoyable to be around.

In both scenarios I was ‘being myself’ but in one I was at least the best version of myself, and that was the one where I was the happiest and the one people admired more.

Visual_Jellyfish8074 · 2025-09-17T23:55:40+00:00

Self-improvement in the form of maximizing your physical attractiveness can improve your initial chances with women. Real, material changes like that help. Anything else is mostly useless drivel, particularly in our current moment where most people meet in some form of online medium.

Social ties, mindset and “personality” matter less than they ever have, but still matter somewhat.

The same way you can increase your income by getting a degree and making yourself a competitive applicant. You will not dig yourself out of poverty by waking up at 4AM, reciting self affirmations, taking cold showers and believing in metaphysical nonsense.

happyfunball5 · 2025-09-18T01:53:20+00:00

If you have areas where you can significantly improve, of course it helps. You want to be able to say, "The bad news is it's my fault. That's also the good news".

CancerMoon2Caprising · 2025-09-18T03:14:18+00:00

When a person is attractive sex is easy to get, but it won't guarantee them a relationship.

Self-improvement is 20% looks, 80% mental health. A lover cant "see" most of your gains. The proof is in securing and maintaining a healthy relationship. A hot lover with trash mental health.....may cycle through a lot of people but lack the stamina or intelligence for something lasting.

Sure, work on the weight, consult a stylist. But without vulnerability, compatibility, and healthy standards, it won't ever last longer than a year.

musicissoulfood · 2025-09-18T15:07:19+00:00

Self-improvement will definitely help attract women.

I never had trouble getting women, but I also wasn't what I would consider a Chad. Untill I spent a year or 3 working out like an animal. Suddenly women were coming up to me and were making it very easy for me. It was like someone unlocked the Chad cheat codes.

Women not liking muscles? Yeah, that's another myth I saw evaporate with my own eyes.

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Title	Self-Improvement will NOT improve your attractiveness to women
Author	Crazy_Kray
Upvotes	75
Comments	162
Date	September 17, 2025 12:15 PM UTC (10 months ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1njbgz1/selfimprovement_will_not_improve_your/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/self-improvement-will-not-improve-your.1562178 https://theredarchive.com/post/1562178

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