Can average men state what they want upfront and get it?

trele_morele · 2021-09-09T17:08:55+00:00

No, only people with leverage get what they want. The mating game mirrors a capitalist system

IHaveSalesQuestions · 2021-09-09T15:17:07+00:00

Even good looking high SMV chads who state upfront they want sex only get turned down often. Some women actually want a relationship. Some women know they will get hurt because they’re attracted to him and don’t want to fuck around because of that. Some women don’t like casual sex. Then you have the ones who like to fuck. The majority of women aren’t really down to fuck with no strings attached. You have to burn through a bunch to find the ones that are.

This idea that chad can walk around dick swinging and females just throw themselves at him is a lie.

PeskyHijinks · 2021-09-09T16:57:04+00:00

In my experience, if you state your intentions upfront and they aren't for a committed relationship, you're done. She's out and it's over. Unless your an exceptionally good looking man, or have enough other qualities to overcome it (obviously wealthy, etc), you're done. Even if a woman is DTF already, if you come out and just state it she will be instantly turned off, even if it's what she wanted as well. Of course there are exceptions. There are always exceptions. But the vast majority of women will not stick around. Which is really a shame too, because if everyone was indeed super up front about it, and if women weren't so weirdly fickle about it, the dating market would be a fundamentally better place for everyone. But that's just my opinion, and what do I know.

NinjaOfTheSouth · 2021-09-09T15:09:39+00:00

No. Since women don’t want or desire the average man, they can’t really state what they want without backlash.

This is why it’s encouraged to either make more money then her or look better then her.

PollaTronante · 2021-09-09T19:48:49+00:00

If he explicitly states this on his online dating profile, he can be banned. There are also examples of men being banned for rejecting women because of her weight in OLD messaging too.

Banned? Really?

I wasn't aware that people could be banned on datings app for politely stating a weight preference, can you please show me specific instances of this?

Playful_Art_5364 · 2021-09-09T16:37:39+00:00

Being subtle is something that’s done to keep manners up. It’s like saying I’m going yo the rest room.

Both sexes do it. If you meet a girl at a club or party and she says “lets go get some coffee tomorrow!”

It’s a date. She’s asking you out. She doesn’t ever actually say “let’s go on a date tomorrow”.

When she invites you to go check out her fancy camera in her room at a party at 2am? You won’t be seeing the camera.

Both sexes do this. It’s part of the daring game. The James Bond Witty banter before sex.

Like I get that some redditor have issues with social stuff. But questions like this and comments like this legit make me ask if some of y’all are really odd or something.

I would assume the type to go on Reddit for dating debate either really like to debate (me) or can’t understand dating at all and checking out all resources.

ToughAnswers · 2021-09-09T15:30:18+00:00

and reject him.

So fuckin what

If incompatible discard immediately

If dry spells are the concern fuck hookers to fill them better than making dumbshit decisions out of thirst

ashpr0ulx · 2021-09-09T15:32:41+00:00

i find it distasteful when anyone puts “must be” or “must not be” statements in their OLD bio. it’s just kinda gross.

i’m an averageish woman, i date and fuck averageish looking guys and in my experience they have no problem asking for what they want. they’re usually quicker than me to come out with “i’m just looking for sex” or “i’m looking for something serious.” men, in my experience, seem to like establishing things very neatly and right away.

nessaea-blue · 2021-09-09T15:14:12+00:00

If you don't want sex with someone because they arent attractive, and they ask for sex, you say no. That's all there is to it.

WarfarinMD · 2021-09-09T16:32:28+00:00

Average men usually have to wine and dine a woman, be charming, be funny, and have all the attributes that attracts a woman and she may sleep with him. Upfront is very unlikely.

Ugly men either are called creeps or told to f*** off. If the woman is feeling it though, she may make him wine and dine her, but 99% give him nothing in return.

Chads will not always get what they want up front, but have the best chance of getting what they want upfront. Sometimes they have to work just a little bit, but usually not much.

My good looking Chad-friend met two different girls in one night and slept with both of them, and he is not much of a sweet talker.

My not so great looking friend usually sleeps with a considerable amount of women, but it is way harder for him; however, he has mastered the charm and he fits the criteria for some women.

Myself, while I'm pretty horrid looking so most of the time (99%), women pass me up, and sometimes are disgusted when they think I'm checking them out, when I'm trying not to look at them at all.

flapperfemmefatale · 2021-09-09T19:35:38+00:00

I think you're really overestimating how many women actually have casual sex. If you only ever approach women who don't, of course nothing whatsoever will work.

Slyfer_Seven · 2021-09-09T15:18:48+00:00

Yes, you have to realize that when most of the dudes say the average man cannot obtain these things, they think they're average, or close to it. They are not...

The average man can do all those things and get desirable results. Is it with the reliability of a really attractive guy? Of course not, but it still happens consistently enough.

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hamburgur148 · 2021-09-09T15:17:31+00:00

I would say the can safely state it but they don't get it all the time. Sometimes yes, sometimes not. Since they are normal and not completely hideous, people are not disgusted with them, so they don't trigger a primal response in people's brain, therefore they won't get attacked for saying what they want in a woman... of course that is, when what they want in a woman is in range of what requirements are currently acceptable in society - for example if he says he wants a Japanese teen with childish looks he will face a heavy backlash whether he's a normie or a Chad.

purplish_possum · 2021-09-09T16:40:36+00:00

What's with all this talking? Just get down. If it's good for both repeat. After enough repeat engagements it becomes a relationship.

wtknight · 2021-09-09T17:03:10+00:00

I used to be able to find women online who only wanted sex and I'm average looking. They weren't that attractive, though, and things may be different now because of apps that seem to specialize in helping women find casual sex.

But at any rate, if average men are no longer able to be upfront about what they want, it's a recent development and not something that has always been the case.

I don't think that men could ever be upfront with their "looksmatch", though. There has to be some attractiveness mismatch favoring the man for this to be able to occur.

M_LaSalle · 2021-09-09T17:10:35+00:00

In order to "state what they want upfront and get it" the man must be attractive. The average man, by definition, is not. He may make himself acceptable during courtship, but that's going to require some amount of time and a woman willing to settle for him.

TheBookOfSeil · 2021-09-09T17:32:50+00:00

Depends on whether the women in question like him or not. I think anyone can state what they want upfront but whether they get it is the question.

Personally, I think being upfront is the best approach because it provides the best approach to getting what you want instead of beating around the bush and using dodgy tactics.

Allblackallamerican · 2021-09-09T18:01:54+00:00

Other than a date, not frequently.

MGTOWManofMystery · 2021-09-09T19:15:26+00:00

If said man has value to that particular woman, sure -- or his probabilities increase.

flamingoinghome · 2021-09-09T21:20:58+00:00

From whom?

Whom, exactly, is this guy talking to/hitting on/whatever?

(also, LOL if you have been on this sub for more than an hour and haven't seen that many men, presumably members of "polite society" FLIP at women with height preferences. And double LOL if you think there are no men writing physique preferences on their Tinder bios too)

Miserable_Yam4778 · 2021-09-10T01:33:22+00:00

Depends on what the man brings to the table. And on the quality and quantity of women he's asking. Part of the issue is that lots of men go about "asking for what they want" in the most explicit, pornographic fashion imaginable, and the majority of women find that off-putting and downright aggressive.

TotalTravesty · 2021-09-09T15:15:09+00:00

For example, famously, women are socially allowed to specify that they want a man of a certain minimum height

Are they, though? Where I’m from it’s usually considered good dating practice—especially in online dating—to not make crass references to physical demands off the bat. Now I’m not saying everyone follows best practice, but those who don’t are usually mocked or ignored.

Or they get chosen by guys who do meet those crassly stated requirements, in which case, I guess it worked, didn’t it?

All of this is to say, to answer your question, you can do whatever the hell you want. If polite society sneers, do it anyway. Are you going to get the same results as a woman who sneers at dating best practice? Probably not. But you can thank male thirst for the lack of equal results despite equal behaviors.

gimpgirl555 · 2021-09-09T15:15:10+00:00

Which brings me to the ultimate example. That many men would like to find women for casual sex rather than a relationship. Of course, there are plenty of women down for that... but it seems only with Chad. Good luck if a normie states upfront that he is "not looking for anything serious"!

What do you guys think about this?

You're in the wrong market. In the "normie market" there are a lot of rules and expectations on how men are supposed to act. But that's just one market. Go outside of Normieland and the rules are different.

Ofc men are never gonna get any value in the Normie market because it's set up to benefit Becky. That's why the man has to pay for dinner but the woman doesn't have to fuck.

There are other markets where you can take your business: the alt community, P4P, trad market, ethnic market, I'm sure there are others.

In other words:

Alt girls

Hoes

Trad girls

Ethnics

IHaveSalesQuestions · 2021-09-09T15:33:26+00:00

Its not about what you say, its about how you say it

if you have game, you can say anything and get laid

geometersbane · 2021-09-09T15:54:12+00:00

Women want average or below average guys to be upfront so it gives the women an excuse to reject them and swiftly end all future interactions.

With a top guy, women would rather have him not say anything because they know he will just pump and dump them. They’re clinging onto that ambiguity in hopes of advancing it to the commitment stage.

Bandit174 · 2021-09-09T15:32:01+00:00

Probably not. I think there was a study that measured receptivity to sexual advancements by gender and attractiveness and the results were something along the lines of women were much more likely to say yes to the offer if the guy was very attractive and even then they said yess less often while men were more or less equally as likely to say yes even if she isn't exceptionally attractive.

edit: found the study

Significantly more men than women consented to a sexual invitation. Specifically, significantly more men than women consented to the “come to my place” and “go to bed with me” conditions. For female subjects, higher ratings of confederate attractiveness were found to significantly increase the odds of consenting to a sexual invitation, whereas for men, confederate attractiveness was found not to significantly influence consent rates

Aldabruzzo · 2021-09-09T15:17:44+00:00

No. The only men who can be that upfront about sex are top 20% men.

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hesipullupjimbo445 · 2021-09-09T15:46:10+00:00

Theoretically yes it is possible however it isn’t realistic.

MrShakedown1 · 2021-09-09T16:16:25+00:00

Nope.

aerial_coitus · 2021-09-09T16:45:10+00:00

cmvmania · 2021-09-09T17:08:01+00:00

Simple 3 which I believe is the gold standard

- Not Obese
- Not Ugly (Grotesque Looking)
- Not promiscuous (Risk to father another mans kids or getting divorce raped)

YveisGrey · 2021-09-09T17:19:13+00:00

Um no. Wanting casual sex is going to be labeled as creepy especially if you are the type of dude who women aren’t attracted to right off the bat. Like you want me to risk pregnancy and STDs for what?? Lol casual sex in general has a negative connotation vs wanting a relationship for men and women. With that said I think when it comes to relationships its fine for an average man to voice his preferences so long as they are reasonable like if he is average, no kids, decent job him wanting a woman who is on a similar level (no kids, decent job, not hideous etc) I think it’s fine

Opposite-Scar7575 · 2021-09-09T17:24:13+00:00

No, even chads need to some basic skills on female sexuality lol.

'hey Ide like casual sex' is socially Inept, unsexy and 'robotic".

He should flirt, get good feedback and frame it like 'Im not after anything serious".

I've booked up with plenty of guys who stated this.

iamthemovie1992 · 2021-09-09T17:39:05+00:00

It depends on a few things.

What does the man exactly want? Does he want a ONS, a FWB, a relationship, a simp relationship? A relationship he could probably come out and be uprfront with and get it, but for ONS or any other casual sex he’s not going to be able to.

Then think of the women in the situation? How attractive is she? How many options does she have? Is he the best option she has? It makes a huge difference when it comes to how she takes being upfront.

BumblingBeta · 2021-09-09T17:41:43+00:00

Men don't have any power in the dating market. Women are the selectors. That's why they can demand things but men can't.

heyitsjeape · 2021-09-09T18:01:47+00:00

Evidently no. I am an average guy.

moldovan0731 · 2021-09-09T18:29:09+00:00

Hell no, I'm pretty sure not even every chad, or even most chads can be so direct.

pubgmisc · 2021-09-09T18:40:51+00:00

No because they know their value is not high enough.

PurpleManufacturer94 · 2021-09-09T18:50:39+00:00

Hahhaa no

AggroWeasel · 2021-09-09T19:07:11+00:00

Sure. I’m average in looks and below average in height. But I’ve still only fucked and dated the women I really want to fuck and date. I won’t date women over about 130-140 pounds. I won’t date women who look old. I won’t date women who are bitchy or don’t take care of themselves.

I think most people, with effort, can get a lot of what they want; they’re just not going to get everything they want, all the time.

chilikettlechips · 2021-09-09T20:10:52+00:00

On the whole, no. Most men, especially non-Chads are not allowed to have standards or requirements. Women on the other hand can freely put in their bio, height, dick, income, marital requirements. They don't realize they're all competing for the same caliber of men of course.

Meanwhile women are usually defensive and when men reveal anything they want it is met with suspicion. And doubt and suspicion are gonna lead to denial. Contrast doubt/suspicion with mystery and you got a better recipe. Plausible deniability goes a long way.

When income and sex are both tied for the #1 reason of divorce when a man voices anything related to sex, especially early on, it will get him axed by women. But because of thirst and supply women can freely ask about what they want. So it's a shame that conversation can't happen. OKCupid has some sexual questions but OKCupid is now pay2win.

And that's what it comes down to. When men have the upper hand they get to ask, they get to have preferences or requirements. When with women that's a given.

You'll never see, hip waist ratio requirements, titty, nipple or labia requirements, orgasm requirements, weight requirements on men's profiles to the same degree women get to do that. In fact there's nothing close of what men want to the same degree of what women demand. I'd love to see those filters on my dating app.

Rockbottom503 · 2021-09-09T20:24:44+00:00

It really depends on the confidence of the guy, his own standards, and how much of a fig he gives about rejection. Everything is a numbers game - even if the guy wants something so obscure that only 1 in a thousand women would entertain it, if he is confident enough to approach and be rejected by 9990 women then odds are at least 1 of the remaining ten will oblige.

ingenjor · 2021-09-09T20:33:54+00:00

Supply and demand. If the product you're selling is worth a lot, people will pay more for it (overlook crass dating profile requirements). Goes for both women and chads.

ShinobiKrow · 2021-09-09T20:54:28+00:00

I always do that. Never had any major problem.

Lateralanouncer · 2021-09-09T22:12:36+00:00

Red pill created the word gynocentric. We live in a Gynocentric society. Basically female emotions dictate what is good and what is bad. With say a dating profile you can’t put what you want as you risk offending and potential Me too.

Plausible deniability is also about woman protecting them selfs. I had a tinder match that was dtf. I was keen but didn’t end up going as wanting to at least meet in public first.

HumanSockPuppet · 2021-09-09T22:24:07+00:00

Not only can men get what they want by stating it up front, it is their best strategy for having successful sexual and romantic relationships.

In TRP, we call it "control game".

Physiologist21 · 2021-09-09T23:35:52+00:00

Usually not, sometimes but it's still the best choice. I mean you can be straight up about it without walking up to someone saying "wanna fuck". Social calibration is still required.

Historical-Agency335 · 2021-09-10T01:50:51+00:00

I'd say im about average and yes I have

2021-09-10T05:37:15+00:00

It's not good practice to tell your date about your high standards, but yes keep them in mind and uphold them if they're important to you. It's definitely not easy getting exactly what you want. Tell them the necessary standards and your ideals if they're reachable. It's perfectly fine to want a good woman.

I don't think women should express unrealistic standards either at least not to the date. It serves no purpose but makes the other person feel bad.

PM_ME_UR_GRUNDLE · 2021-09-10T06:17:45+00:00

It depends on how both people value and what they expect from one another in a LTR >long-term relationship

Unmet expectations lead to disappointment on both ends

sootlord · 2021-09-10T14:27:31+00:00

No. Everytime I stated what I want honestly and openly 9/10 times immediately shut down.

Being ambigious and agreeing with whatever the woman wants yielded signigicantly better results.

SaBahRub · 2021-09-10T17:00:26+00:00

Nope. Because we have to find out if you’re a shitty person first

Holler4Heller · 2021-09-14T22:54:10+00:00

No. Nor can drastically above average men.

Big_Illustrious_Vag · 2021-09-15T02:27:53+00:00

Eastuss · 2021-09-09T15:26:07+00:00

3 or 4/10 man here.

No, men cannot state anything. They need to just do. But for beta men it's hard to do anything without hints. That's why TRP exists, to teach men they need to just be assertive.

Talking is bad. Do not ask, do not voice your intentions, you need to make them feel your intention. Because women are going to be repulsed at you saying you want sex, but they're not going to be repulsed when they start feeling desired.

Example: I had this lesbian friend, I had a crush on her, I voiced several times I had a crush on her, and she was always like "I don't like boys it's never going to happen". Until I just made out with her and touched her. And I stopped there because I was too dumb and thought that wouldn't lead anywhere, the next day she was HURT that I was acting like we weren't together, and HURT that I didn't push any further than just making out.

Prior to that girl, I was perpetually rejected and friendzoned, after that girl, never was rejected. Indicators of interests are all plausibly deniable and that's why men need to ignore them, what women answer to your words do not translate how they'd feel in the moment and that's why men need to shut up and do.

PlayfulLawyer · 2021-09-09T15:28:55+00:00

I mean probably more often than you would think, at the very least you got to respect the honesty lol

TodTheRod01 · 2021-09-09T19:24:04+00:00

9 out of 10 times no.

Also normie to MANY women = ugly, lame, below them.

And lets not forget often times when men have standards or preferences if they are not in accordance with womens belief...they are shamed for them

Title	Can average men state what they want upfront and get it?
Author	GNP_Aficionado
Upvotes	50
Comments	357
Date	September 9, 2021 2:06 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/pkyhz9/can_average_men_state_what_they_want_upfront_and/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/can-average-men-state-what-they-want-upfront-and.1069592 https://theredarchive.com/post/1069592

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