CMV: Men are frustrated, and potentially giving up, because of wildly differing opinions from women on the core aspects of relationships.

funkyyams · 2023-03-03T02:31:58+00:00

I’m confused as to what you’re confused about. Women are not a monolith, just like men are not a monolith. If that 37 year old lady is happy with her lifestyle, why is the YouTube lady negging her just because she disagrees? Sleeping around in your late 30s might not be for everyone, but neither is getting married at 23 and having kids by 25.

Do you know how to find out if a woman has the same values as you and relationship goals? By talking to her about it. Why are you dating people, without communicating to each other what you want in the relationship, and then get frustrated when she doesn’t magically want the same thing as you do? Do you start “dating” someone after a 5 minute conversation?

I also think this is kind of ironic because men do this too. Like yes would you look at that both men and women are capable of alternative lifestyles. Both men and women are capable of being poor communicators. And emotionally unavailable, often at different times.

Also why are you generalizing men so much? And women too? Why do date women get jerked around and build resentment in silence by going along with things you don’t want to do, and not have healthy communication skills with each other, and not voice your opinion if they’re changing paths about whatever that is? You’re setting yourself up for failure by basing the foundation of your relationship on how physically attractive you think these woman are, no wonder you’re struggling.

I would never be with someone who doesn’t communicate with me, and then resents me for doing things and finally snaps even though they’ve never brought it up before. How am I supposed to know how you feel about something if you don’t tell me? Women can’t read minds. Men can’t read minds.

A good relationship OF ANY KIND, in my experience, has a foundation of mutual respect and trust, and friendship. And it’s maintained through communication and teamwork. Partners. That’s why they’re called partners. It sounds like those haven’t been priorities of yours.

In college I had a fwb and yea most of the time we spent together was when he came over after going out, but the thing about a fwb is that there’s also that friends part. We were friends, we got coffee, we went on hikes, we watched movies, friend stuff with a bonus serving of sex. Not every fwb has the same level of friendship, that’s fine, everyone is different.

That’s my thesis, everyone is different and generalizations get you no where and not communicating especially gets you no where.

Steakman1 · 2023-03-03T01:26:06+00:00

I’m confused. Was there ever a time when women didn’t have different opinions? Why aren’t women giving up on dating due to men having different opinions? I mean there’s the whole body count debate and there’s men on both sides of it. There’s men who won’t talk to you again if you don’t pay half on the date and then there’s men who will feel insulted if you insist on splitting the bill. There’s also men who want a trad housewife and then there’s men who want a college educated woman that works.

The only area really that I see men willing to adjust on is what they are sexually attracted to. Like I prefer blue eyed blonde women. But I also think there’s some gorgeous black women out there. Your examples of accepting blame and not shutting down shit tests just sound like men who are dealing with stuff they don’t like because she’s the only option he has.

HighNSimp500 · 2023-03-03T02:52:41+00:00

Check your premises. There's no contradiction here, nothing for men to be confused about... UNLESS you start with the assumption that AWALT, then get confused how 2 different women could think 2 different things.

Women are not some monolithic entity. Different women think different thinks. Different women have different preferences. One of those women is a married conservative, the other is a sex-positive promiscuous liberal. Why is it confusing that they say different things?

TotalTravesty · 2023-03-03T00:34:22+00:00

Come on, don’t make us look that stupid. Most men understand that people are different around the time we develop object permanence. What do they do on Election Day? When deciding what company to work for? Trying to figure out what movie to watch?

Wait. You mean a thing can exist that is not exactly like this other thing that exists?! Stop the planet I need to get off!

MyLastBestChance · 2023-03-03T02:00:08+00:00

If these men are not bright enough to understand that different people have different preferences and values, it’s probably better that they do give up. 🤷‍♀️

fiftypoundpuppy · 2023-03-03T00:46:16+00:00

So... you're positing that men are mad women aren't a hivemind?

They're frustrated that different women want different things?

So long AWALT. Glad we could get that off the table.

It's also confusing that your title is "wildly differing opinions from women on the core aspects" of relationships, while your links are exclusively talking about women having sex with "bad boys." These are two completely different topics.

One random woman likes sex with "bad boys." Another random woman disproves of getting involved with "bad boys." Having sex with "bad boys" isn't a core aspect of relationships. And it shouldn't be any more confusing or frustrating that two different women have two different opinions than it is for two different men to have two different favorite football teams.

Ppdebatesomental · 2023-03-03T01:23:55+00:00

Omg…I was going to get a boob job, but some guy on ppd said boob jobs were gross and he would never marry a woman with a boob job….and then some other guy said boob jobs were hot and any woman he married needed to get a boob job to prove she loved him and I saved all this money for my boob job and now I have no clue what I should do.

I’m just giving up on men. I wonder what lesbians think about boob jobs…….

Little-grey_boi · 2023-03-03T00:40:58+00:00

Men are frustrated and giving up but I don't think it's because woman have "widely differing opinions".

Soloandthewookiee · 2023-03-03T02:52:20+00:00

As long as a woman meets the low-bar of attractiveness, we'll pretty much adjust ourselves to the relationship (to a limit, but a limit that is far out there).

I have absolutely no idea why so many men in here claim shit like this, because it's clearly false. I didn't date like this and I don't know anybody who did. If this is how you're dating, why would someone want to be with you?

Seyorin · 2023-03-03T01:08:20+00:00

You know what's crazy is women are actually individuals with different ideas about life and relationships and if you don't like their opinion you are fully free to move on to someone else, or no one else, if you prefer

-Shes-A-Carnival · 2023-03-03T01:15:36+00:00

an important thing the article is saying is that MALE ATTITUDES towards sex determine how uninhibited and dirty women are in bed. men who expect "wife material" in some "traditional" sense give off inhibited, judgmental sex negative vibes. bad boys and "lovers" give off sensual unihibited, non judgmental vibes. you cant have it both ways, if youre going to judge female sexuality, your egoign to get women who inhibit their sexuality around you

ROlderbrother · 2023-03-03T00:33:27+00:00

Luckily I'm not dating 4 billion women. I only need to agree with one woman about fundamental relationship issues.

baresquad · 2023-03-03T01:25:00+00:00

So is the solution for all women to think act and operate the same in an effort to make dating easier?

Just find and focus on the ones that fit your mold. Why worry so much about the ones who don’t? They aren’t to blame for dating shortcomings.

badgersonice · 2023-03-03T02:39:15+00:00

But, when we get publicly published media from two women who disagree entirely on even the core tenets of relationships, it is very frustrating, and tends to make us question why we want to even get involved in the first place. It's a bridge too far.

Wait... two different women disagreeing is a bridge too far for you? Sorry, but really? Seriously?

As in, you genuinely expected all women to agree 100% on everything, to never have any public disagreements or arguments? I can't take this seriously at all. Why did you think women are a hive mind incapable of having different opinions? Why did you ever think that was a reasonable belief?

It puts us in a situation where we would probably be better on our own, and maybe a relationship might present itself to us, if we are lucky.

Sorry, you need to change your view that women are supposed to all agree on topics you want them to agree on. Like... even in very traditional societies where women are expected to keep their traps shut and serve her man unquestioningly, most men were at least aware that their wife was a different person from their mother, and that the two women wouldn't be expected to agree on much. It is insane for you to expect all women to agree on any topic whatsoever.

PonderingPeaches · 2023-03-03T00:54:29+00:00

Differing opinions are what make the world go round, chief. Find the people who view the world like you do and leave the rest alone.

Safinated · 2023-03-03T01:30:33+00:00

Lol if you think 18-25 year olds are listening to a word mature adults say.

Or that their brains still aren’t being poisoned by a stew of hormones, boredom, horniness, drugs, alcohol, ignorance and FOMO which precludes the formation of anything resembling a sober, reasonable plan.

I was still doing dumb shit like stealing things, destroying shit, lying to anyone about everything, lighting stuff on fire and passing out on the street until embarrassingly close to my quarter-life crisis

Barneysparky · 2023-03-03T00:42:23+00:00

I think a robot might very well be the solution for some men.

JNRoberts42 · 2023-03-03T03:13:14+00:00

What are your experiences with individual women?

INFPneedshelp · 2023-03-03T03:38:50+00:00

Well yeah, women are different and so are men! Id say woman 1 has a less common view, but she still exists and will state her opinion.

Professor_Meep · 2023-03-03T04:07:53+00:00

I love how you're looking to two women who are on opposing extremes to gauge your perceptions instead of average women who wouldn't fall into either of these categories - You know, the majority of women who aren't purposely not seeking out bad boys and raving about how good sex is with them or shaming the minority of women who engage in this kind of behavior either.

microphone_commander · 2023-03-03T07:04:34+00:00

Yes women are not a monolith

On to the next one

punapearebane · 2023-03-03T08:36:17+00:00

Wildly differing opinions from women. Almost as if women are all different and have different opinions?

obviousredflag · 2023-03-03T12:31:03+00:00

But, when we get publicly published media from two women who disagree entirely on even the core tenets of relationships, it is very frustrating, and tends to make us question why we want to even get involved in the first place.

WHAT? You must be aware that people are different, have different values and want different things in relationships and their partners. You are not expected to be the right partner for everyone or everyone having your relationship core tenets. Pick a matching/compatible partner and don't care about the others.

What exactly is your problem here?

MistyMaisel · 2023-03-03T16:06:27+00:00

Is this another men can't understand women aren't a monolith post? It is. Gosh darnit. Fellas, we want different things, different men, some of us don't even want men, and we're all different enough that we can provide generalized advice that mostly amounts to: be a mature adult who is attractive because this is your best chance to get and have a healthy relationship.

gate18 · 2023-03-03T16:36:42+00:00

But, when we get publicly published media from two women who disagree entirely on even the core tenets of relationships, it is very frustrating

How many men are you referring to when you say "we"? Do you think you can't find two men that completely disagree with each other? It would be stupid to think you can't/

How many women did Jana Hocking ask? How many women were on that party she was having? Could it be that Jana Hocking (just like you) simply hangs with like minded people?

Why do you give a fuck what one columnist thinks? There are columnists out there are racists, man-hating, and women-hating... yet it doesn't follow that they represent every single human.

Will he call again? Who knows. How exciting. (Yes, I know I know, toxic … but nevertheless … exciting.)

And every other woman that hate when men don't call lying bitches? Jana Hocking is correct and every single woman that hates when men don't call just lying? Really?

Jana Hocking and Jebediah Bila are exactly like you. You pretend you are speaking for all men. They pretend they are speaking for all women. The reason is simple, all you three want your content to be viewed.

If Jana Hocking told the truth, that she and her friends like toxic men, it wouldn't sell. Jana likes toxic men, Bob likes dildos, so what. However, if Bob and Jana pretend to represent humanity, that's newsworthy.

Then, the video is even more pathetic. "if you are 37, alone, brutal" she can't imagine a woman can be happy alone at 37, hence, since she can't imagine it, every 37 year old woman says she's happy must be lying. If you don't know it's a fact, if Jebediah Bila can't imagine something, then that thing does not exist.

ThorLives · 2023-03-04T03:20:58+00:00

You're not wrong, although I think you could've written the post better. Also, people on this subreddit often have trouble with nuance, so they'll assume the worst most strawman version of your argument and then attack you on that basis.

But, yeah, there's wide disagreement among women about dating, and it seems like a lot of women assume every other woman agrees with their opinion (so every adult make should also know it), and also that men are stupid and clueless of they don't see the world the same way as them.

Open a door for one woman and she'll see it as attractive and chivalrous, but another woman will assume that you don't think she's capable of opening her own door. Multiply that by two dozen other situations, and it's a guantlet of unspoken and idiosyncratic expectations that a man has to navigate. I remember going on a date with a woman. It went well, but I never heard back from her and I was surprised. I messaged her asking what happened and she said that I should've messaged her after the date to make sure she got home okay. I thought "WTF?" We don't live in a warzone. Even worse that those women think it's "only obvious" that a post date "did you get home okay" message is expected. Other women might think it's infantilizing or smothering if you sent it to them.

The other thing about these expectations is that they have nothing to do with the quality of a relationship that you could've had with that woman. It's like she's using arbitrary requirements to decide if you're worth dating. She ends up filtering out a lot of good relationship opportunities because of some dumb "did you send a text message at the time she wanted" litmus test that doesn't correlate to whether or not the two of you could have a good relationship or not.

RatchedAngle · 2023-03-03T01:00:23+00:00

This is shown in our going along with shit-tests instead of shutting them down, accepting blame for when a woman picks a fight with us, and being flexible to switch paths when the woman changes her mind.

Trust me when I say this: women can sniff out the “fakeness” in all of these actions. I can tell the difference between a real apology and an apology that’s only given to pacify me. I can tell when a man is acting a certain way outwardly while maintaining his own internal monologue that completely ignores or invalidates everything I’m trying to say.

If this is how you view women and relationships…that’s the source of your frustration.

You don’t see women as fellow human beings. You don’t see them as people you can talk to and genuinely compromise with. Saying “I’m going to just smile and nod” is not a legitimate compromise. You’re placating her the same way you would by handing a lollipop to a kid who just fell. You’re treating her like an idiot.

A woman tries to express frustration because you forgot her birthday? She’s “picking a fight.” It can’t be that she’s genuinely hurt, right? She’s not being vulnerable in expressing her hurt to you. No, of course not. She’s not looking for comfort and care…no, she’s “picking a fight.” And instead of taking her hurt seriously and genuinely trying to make amends, you spit out a robotic apology and tell yourself “eh I’ll say ‘sorry’ because she has nice big tits and I want her to stop yapping.”

Trust me, women aren’t stupid. We can tell when you’re doing that. The thing is - even “good” men do that stuff. You think you’re a good guy because you always shove your head in the sand and apologize, but let’s be honest - none of your apologies are real. You’re just trying to shut her up.

A woman can’t have any emotion besides “yes, honey, here’s your dinner” or “sure honey I’ll get on my knees” without you calling it a shit test or picking a fight. You think you’re compromising but the problem is that you don’t actually listen and try to see things from her perspective.

So if both good men and bad boys are going to do that to me…I might as well get the sexual thrill of a bad boy to go along with my “getting treated like an idiot who has zero valid grievances about anything ever.”

EulenWatcher · 2023-03-03T02:04:01+00:00

I think we're going though a transitioning period and lots of people can't adjust to a lack of fool-proof rules or ways to navigate in dating. You can't go to her parents and ask her hand, having sex doesn't mean you're exclusive, paying for a date or going Dutch, egalitarian or traditional etc. Combined with a growing social isolation and some people having a lack of social skills and more positive things like a less stigma of staying single and having more options to choose besides the clear pathroad to marriage.

So to sum it up, dating is rather confusing to navigate, almost impossible if you have low social skills and there's less pressure to date or marry. So it's no wonder that there are more people resigning from dating than there used to be and it isn't just the results of different opinions.

ReferenceImpossible2 · 2023-03-03T04:36:08+00:00

We gotta step our game up bros, our arguments have been straight up WEAK today 😔

Ok-Supermarket-6747 · 2023-03-03T04:36:46+00:00

Obviously these are two very different women so what they say ‘feels good’ is going to be different in their opinions.

Doing something ‘taboo’ etc can be an aphrodisiac for people which is what the woman in the first article describes: it’s sexual. The second women in the video saying ‘this doesn’t feel good for women’ is coming from the emotional argument and longterm aspect of it.

The women are different. Some women honestly don’t want kids and maybe just want a string of partners or friends or just pets.

But it doesn’t have to be at odds with what you described because you describe the ideal method. Even woman is different so every man has to ‘learn the ropes all over again’ and as long as you can use indicators like asking if she does casual etc then you should be able to discern which type of women you are more likely dealing with. And remember that can change also. Might start casual and end in a relationship or vice versa

SwimmingTheme3736 · 2023-03-03T09:37:38+00:00

Over the years men have told me completely different things that men want in women

According to most men on here my husband should want me, and he really does

Mkg102216 · 2023-03-03T15:56:21+00:00

Damn it's almost like women are individuals and therefore have individual wants and needs. You'd think it'd be common sense that everyone has to go through the trouble of finding people who have the same relationship ideals/goals as you.

beckabunss · 2023-03-03T19:14:50+00:00

Wow stop the presses! Women have differing opinions on dating! And woah! Shocker! They have an interest in challenging men to date, ‘bad boys’ uwu I guess that’s equal to you getting a girl to talk to you and falling in love with her on the spot, since women find it so endearing to easily win over a man by just existing /s. Men complain about not being able to date attractive women and then lambast women for wanting not to date a guy who is easy? Would you date an ugly woman who was easy? Both genders would like a nice person to date who interests them. Don’t shame women for having an interest in something for a temporary time. We’ve all been into someone‘ interesting’ and dated for the sake of the excitement instead of a solid footing of mutual love and respect.

KayRay1994 · 2023-03-03T19:57:14+00:00

moral of the story: stop treating women as monoliths, do what feels right for you and for the love of god establish some level of actual individuality rather than following the advice of (insert generic bro-ee dating advice giver here) like it was the word of god

DeepHouseDJ007 · 2023-03-03T09:09:45+00:00

Bro why do you care that different people have opinions? It’s not even just women, everyone’s like that.

And please don’t try to pretend to talk for all men because most of us don’t see things like you do with the whole mgotw / incel approach of saying things like “men are waking away” and being mad women want “Chad” / bad boys.
Most of us don’t see things that way.

jxjkskkk · 2023-03-03T15:35:37+00:00

Women shouldn’t give men dating advice to men, and men shouldn’t take dating advice from women, period. How is this not common sense?

If I’m a fisherman looking to catch a fish, why would I ask a fish the best way to be caught?

Women aren’t going to tell you how to succeed in a relationship. They are going to tell you how to fit their specific version of an ideal man who fits every checkbox of their Preferences™️

Even more ironically, usually just conforming to what your partner says they prefer in every way washes you down to the point where you’re not the same person they started dating. In other words, don’t listen to every little quip about what she prefers, only hear big overarching issues. Most of it is nonsense garbage.

HighestTierMaslow · 2023-03-03T16:14:54+00:00

"Men have different preferences in women as far as size and shape. As long as a woman meets the low-bar of attractiveness, we'll pretty much adjust ourselves to the relationship (to a limit, but a limit that is far out there)."

Im laughing- I dated alot, probably more than you and this is absolutely not true. Men usually act like this during the honeymoon phase. Once that is over, they have a list of personality and character traits you must meet, sometimes while they themselves dont meet these requirements. Also, a large portion of men are very picky about what they prefer with looks.

Men are just as particular and picky as women. Only desperate men arent like this.

I have had every aspect of my personality and looks nitpicked in opposite ways by different men so that shows they vary in what they like. (I've been called too quiet/not quiet enough, too smart/not smart enough, too independent/too clingy, average-looking/ugly/too-hot, etc)

And before anyone comes at me, none of these men were the elusive "top 20%" as described on here, lol.

DrinkItInMan11 · 2023-03-03T00:54:18+00:00

I disagree, they're giving up because the risk isn't work the reward.

Relationships don't really add much to your life.

Some-Web-1213 · 2023-03-03T16:40:27+00:00

Employer John wants you to be socially smart and people oriented, wants you to be an excellent problem solver.

Employer Steve puts emphasis on your hard work, technical skills and punctuality.

What are you gonna do, go to therapy?

Separate-Practice171 · 2023-03-03T18:11:28+00:00

Women gave up a long time ago. The entire idea of relationships was never meant to last. What we call relationships today just doesn’t work, this isn’t Disney

NockerJoe · 2023-03-03T01:15:49+00:00

I think its fine for women to all want different things but large portions of them will act like their personal preferences are the baseline and anything outside that is an anomaly. Hence why literally every location has been made "don't approach women here" territory and you just need to pop over to basically any ask sub to find women wondering why men won't talk to them in the gym/library/at work.

Men can have wildly differing preferences but the whole boobs vs ass thing has become a meme simply because of the discourse around it and theres a greater understanding that if a dude prefers something thats his preference and he isn't speaking for all men, and that other men will disagree and cause a back and forth reasonably often.

I think that a big part of it is if a woman makes a declaration about men its much more rare for another woman to give it any kind of pushback. But that just kind of means an observer will often assume the statement speaks for women in general since few other women will directly say anything contrary.

No_Reflection_798 · 2023-03-03T00:32:40+00:00

For what it's worth, I would always go for Jebediah over Jana. Jebediah, to me, is what a strong woman looks like. Jana is a trainwreck that I would avoid (if I was even able to pick up any clues beforehand).

Furthermore, Jebediah, in my opinion, far more exudes the properties of femininity than Jana. Jana is an excellent example of how Feminism is destroying relationships.

wtknight · 2023-03-03T01:04:25+00:00

Gross. I’d never date a woman like the first one. If these women can eventually find future men who want to date them seriously when they decide that they no longer want to "have fun", then good for them. That guy would never be me, and I’d rather be single if every woman were like this.

statsfodder · 2023-03-03T03:26:58+00:00

Requirements for a relationship vs fucking are 2 different things ...

Commonalities though are being hot, tall and have money.

No-Rough-7390 · 2023-03-03T10:35:40+00:00

OP, my suggestion would be to do the following:

Observe the differing behaviors of women (you’re in essence highlighting the AFBB difference here). Then look at their ages. Things will make a whole lot more sense.

gucciwillis · 2023-03-03T15:47:30+00:00

Firstly, men aren't giving up. Maybe you and your friends are, but based on your statement I imagine you don't have a large sample size there. And secondly, stop watching videos on youtube to get your opinion on what's happening in the world. Go outside

FlyV89 · 2023-03-03T17:13:51+00:00

The trad woman is just coping. I mean, she clearly has traditional views, but those views are fading in the modern dating world.

She said like 30 times "men out there, women are NOT like this".

She sounds deeply invested.

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harmonica2 · 2023-03-03T01:34:01+00:00

Well as far as guys not agree with women views on dating, if a lot of guys want a woman who is less 'feminist' and more old fashioned, then why don't they just go for that type since they are still out there?

SDinAsia · 2023-03-03T03:16:05+00:00

You need to look into the red pill, brother. It has the answers to all of your questions.

RedBullPittsburgh · 2023-03-03T03:30:48+00:00

Blue pilled and the hamfisted hamstering response from women in here just denying the fact that men are giving up and moving on.

Good luck to you. Enjoy the decline.

BigBrainChick · 2023-03-03T14:55:00+00:00

You just found someone trash. Look more

eye_of_gnon · 2023-03-03T17:30:25+00:00

"bad boys" are usually more masculine, the testosterone is what causes them to rebel against societal norms in the first place

Yoyo4games · 2023-03-03T17:48:12+00:00

I've never had a "bar" for dating, at least consciously. The people I've been attracted to is usually due to my regular proximity to them, my eventual confession of feelings, and the request of knowing/spending time with one another. I'm typically highly unconcerned with what they consider normal within their lives, as in who've they dated before, who they're friends with now, and what sort of things they're into.

Rather, that is to say I'm unconcerned with how I fit into all that; I certainly want to know their friends and hobbies, not so much previous romances, but what I mean is attraction is obvious. They're going to make time to have me involved in those things regardless, so my relationships have always just fallen into place, usually in a way that doesn't significantly effect each other's lives, outside of how we're now spending our time.

That isn't to say I don't have standards for attraction, but I've dated women with different styles, sizes, and temperaments all throughout my life. Trying to 100% pin each and every preference down is esoteric and evasive at best. The one's I'm the most familiar with are attention and availability; is it clear they want to talk to and interact with me very often and do they make themselves receptive to that same desire when it's present in me? When I am separate from them, do they make effort for me in the form of occasional surprises and highly enthusiastic reception upon our reunion? How do they respond to my occasionally surprising them and being highly enthused about their presence?

I think mostly all writing on romantic relationships now is just schlock tbh. If love or attraction feel hard for you, not to sound cliche, but you're just looking for things in people who aren't interested in offering them to you.

Kobe_curry24 · 2023-03-03T18:30:17+00:00

Really this convo is simple and then new generation got rid of all the traditions of what relationships were ,you can debate if that was good or not , but you can’t get rid of tradition rules in relationships and replace them with nothing , and as you look around the dating spectrum you have the people who have found traditional ways are somewhat happy and everyone else is struggling plus thinking that they can find a top tier partner in their 50s

despisedlove2 · 2023-03-04T01:34:06+00:00

Nonsense.

Women's opinions are like water - here today and gone tomorrow. What is making men wake up is the end result of the so called relationships. Smart ones switch to RP MGTOW on their own after a look at the state of affairs unclouded by the main male weakness - desire.

Others have to learn the lesson painfully.

Title	CMV: Men are frustrated, and potentially giving up, because of wildly differing opinions from women on the core aspects of relationships.
Author	No_Reflection_798
Upvotes	88
Comments	293
Date	March 3, 2023 12:29 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/11glxe5/cmv_men_are_frustrated_and_potentially_giving_up/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-men-are-frustrated-and-potentially-giving-up.1154685 https://theredarchive.com/post/1154685

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