Pickmes and Newbies listen up. We don't do 50/50. Read the Handbook, but also consider this:

Phoenix__Rising2018 · 2021-03-08T18:40:57+00:00

Thank you

UnstrirringCoffee · 2021-03-08T14:43:15+00:00

I used to be like this, but also out of politeness / worried about looking like a gold-digger I would pay. It ultimately boils down to low self-esteem, which I was trying to bolster by paying and making it obvious.

fogplum · 2021-03-08T17:21:47+00:00

With a man who's even somewhat decent, you won't feel obligated to have sex under any circumstance. I went on dates with my ex-boyfriends who were not even HVM, they paid, and I never felt pressured to sleep with them. I felt comfortable to take things at my own pace. I went on first/second dates with other men, they paid, and I DID feel the pressure, which was my cue to never see them again because that pressure was not coming from within myself.

OrangeyPanda · 2021-03-08T16:33:17+00:00

A 2020 study on Tinder showed over double the amount of men then women use dates to get free food/drinks. Men are taking advantage fully of the fear they've put into women afraid of being "gold diggers", they're getting women to pay for their meals, give them therapy, use them for sex and moving on to find a woman he actually wants to impress and be with (if he was on a date with Jessical Alba would he ask her to pay her half?)

If men wanted women to pay 50/50 they wouldn't have physically, socially and legally barred women from acquiring their own income and assets for all of history and currently.

Link

souredskittles · 2021-03-08T16:34:41+00:00

Trust when we say even if he doesn’t pay for you, he still would pressure you for sex. You just made it less risky for him to waste your time.

m00n5t0n3 · 2021-03-08T16:46:55+00:00

"He still wants sex, you are paying for your own protection. How is this a date?"

Read it again and again.

Maude2010 · 2021-03-08T15:21:44+00:00

I’ve had every experience imaginable when it comes to the check, from literal dine-and-dash to him obnoxiously announcing that he’s paying the bill for everyone in the restaurant.

Generally, I would make some sort of movement to pay and he’d say he’ll get it and I’d say thanks. But it’s like theatre. He intends to pay but wants to see that I’m willing to; I want him to wave off my gesture and pay, but I don’t want to seem like I’m “entitled” or whatever.

Ultimately, it’s dumb. And it’s usually still kind of awkward, even if you’re both seasoned daters with the “Oh, let me get my—“ / “Oh no, it’s on me” ritual.

Here’s the thing. The right man doesn’t want that awkwardness. He’ll take care of it when one of you goes to the restroom or he’ll make it clear (in a non obnoxious way) when the server comes that he’s getting it, so you’re not sitting there wondering if you should say something or reach into your purse. Everyone knows that shit is awkward.

The men who take part in this check theatre suck. Even if both perform their parts perfectly, with her reaching for her wallet and him brushing off her offer, it’s still awkward and not the best way to end a date.

If you’re a woman doing the purse-reach because you feel embarrassed, it’s because he’s sitting there letting you feel embarrassed instead of just taking care of it.

All of this happens in seconds but it’s very important.

If you’re feeling awkward or worried about it, it’s already too late. Pay half, let him, or pay it all yourself, it doesn’t matter anymore. He’s not the right guy. You should be enjoying the date and not even aware the date has already been paid for, or he’s handed over his card and gone back to you before you even have that “oh no, the check” feeling.

After years of taking part in that check theatre, and thinking it was fine, this is what I’ve learned.

(Also, don’t think that doing this right makes him HV. He can just be suave and/or rich. But not doing it right makes him LV or at least not into you).

taylor232424 · 2021-03-08T13:51:56+00:00

I agree. I went out with a guy and he asked if I believe in picking up the check sometimes. I said no. A friend who also doesn’t do 50/50 said that I shouldn’t overtly say no because it’s sounds tacky, just don’t pay.

What are your thoughts? Should I never overtly say no or simply never pay?

IllTill3859 · 2021-03-08T19:59:39+00:00

I have never paid on a date. Never. You ask me out, you pay. In fact I leave my wallet in my car. I have a backup credit card inside my phone case just in case a man decides to play games. But I know what I bring to the table, and I am not going to sit across from a man while he gets my time, energy, and attention only for me to pay half. I had a bf who asked me to pay for dinner “since it is my birthday” despite me buying him gifts. I still didn’t pay because, “I left my wallet at home.”I never looked at him the same way. I lost respect for him and that ultimately led to our breakup. Now, If we are in an established relationship and are sitting at home I can order pizza no problem. But the men I date typically don’t even want me to come out of pocket. But to dress up, show up looking good, smelling nice, have a waiter take my order, then pay half, lmao. Hell would have to freeze over twice before I do that. I am attracted to financially generous and financially stable men. A man with a 50:50 mindset does not meet the minimum requirements for me to entertain him. He cannot provide me with the lifestyle I desire and therefore he is useless to me.

MrsJohnMarston__ · 2021-03-08T16:40:45+00:00

When I eventually went on a date with my now fiancé (I was too busy focusing on my MA when he first asked), I was pretty skint.

I’m sure I said that I was a bit broke. He honestly did not care.

We went out and had a meal followed by a drink before I went and chilled with a friend.

The fact a man pays for a date, is firstly, show that they respect the effort you’ve gone to get ready and secondly, if this man sees himself as a potential husband, then it shows you that he’s willing to invest in you.

Men who get cagey about money early on is a red flag for later financial coercion and other controlling behaviours.

Rowbloks · 2021-03-08T19:01:15+00:00

Here is a relevant post I have made in response to someone in another thread about paying. It got burried pretty quickly, so I'm allowing myself to repost it here:

Im i the only FDS user that doesn't like when they pay for both? It always makes me very uncomfortable. I see it as a power play where they assert their dominance by being the one paying and i hate that. Also i don't want to feel like i owe them anything.

Even if a date pays for you as a woman, you still owe him nothing other than respect and basic decency. In my opinion, the moment when you realize that is the moments when FDS teachings have really, truly been absorbed in your mind.

You're a woman and, as a class, you do labor that men don't. All the emotional labor that goes into not losing your mind in a world that constantly tries to diminish you and objectify you from the second that you're born, who pays you for that? A world where misogynistic slurs are used on the daily with total societal approval, who pays you for that? When you deal with people discriminating you because they view your biology as a liability in the workforce (but they're also very glad to profit off of your biology when it's time to have their own kids or make demeaning jokes), who pays you for that emotional work? The stress of putting your safety at risk by spending so much time with someone (a man) way stronger than you who could use sexual violence against you, who pays you for that? You pay all of this out of pocket your whole life, and despite all of that, you're still getting out of bed every day and doing what you can to be a pleasant person to be around. You do all this work yet the people who don't have to deal with all that discrimination (men) demand access to the result of your very hard emotional labor, you, for free, and they say that it's "fair and equal".

What is fair and equal about that, exactly? When you think it through, you notice that the only reason why you think that's "equal" is because you've been told that it is over and over again. That's it. It's classic brainwashing.

It's not a power play because paying for the date means paying for your company, not for sex. He's paying for the time and energy you've given him despite the fact that your energy and time is also taken by all the obstacles that only you have to face as a woman.

Think of it like buying bread at the baker's. Buying that bread is not a power play because it's a fair exchange. Your bread that he buys is your company, so as long as you don't do weird things like encouraging him to buy a vacation for the both of you and then standing him up at the airport when he can't get his money back anymore, you're good sis, for real.

inlovewithaloser · 2021-03-08T18:48:28+00:00

The thing about 50/50 is how innocuous it is about its real intentions. Sounds like a good deal, right? At a glance it seems fair. But think about situations where we are going out to brunch or eating with friends or family— the people we love, it’s not hard for us to pick up the whole tab there right? Because we care about those people, want them to feel our generosity for being in our lives. Yet, a man who wants to pursue us, shouldn’t do the same? If he thinks we are of any real importance to him it shouldn’t be a problem for him to say he’ll pay for it all, the way it isn’t hard for us to do so with friends and family.

2021-03-08T16:29:40+00:00

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Mind-Objective · 2021-03-08T16:21:24+00:00

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sherbearie · 2021-03-08T20:07:57+00:00

Not to mention the money & time spent on nice clothings, make up, nails, perfume, skin care, when dudes will basically show up in plain shirts and jeans, and not even bother to compliment the efforts on your part, spends most of the date talking about himself and completely waste your time & efforts. How is that 50/50?

Men who says they want 50/50 are liars, they do not want 50/50. What they want is actually for you to do all the work and their part, get minimum inconvenience and reap the maximum benefits.

I used to be that Cool Girl who would even pay for the whole date because I WaS Strong EmpoWeRed WomEn wHo DiDn'T No MeN to PaY and it never ever got me anywhere. Every time I did that I got ghosted by the guys, not even thank you text, nope, nothing.

BananaSlugGhost · 2021-03-08T17:20:12+00:00

Every school of etiquette dictates that whoever initiated the date should pay the tab.

And since HVW don't ask men on dates, it's clear who should pay. If you asked a man out, etiquette dictates you should pay, so you're doing this dating thing wrong. You're giving away your time, or worse, compensating him for his when he's not truly interested in you.

If a man asked you out for the pleasure of your company and getting to know you, he'd insist on paying the tab. It's the LEAST he can do to compensate you for the favor of your time and attention.

Phoenix__Rising2018 · 2021-03-08T18:48:59+00:00

As a queen, your job on the date is to be respected, treated, and admired.

You have already done your half by accepting his offer for a date.

Furthermore most of us put serious effort into getting ready for a date showering, exfoliating, styling our hair, donning makeup, jewelry and nice clothing.

In addition, you are giving him the gift of your presence and your attendance at this date. You are fun, you are pleasant, you are respectful etc. You bring your A game.

You have already completed your job. The absolute LEAST he can do is pay for your entree and a cocktail for the pleasure of your presence. The very least he must do is treat you with the utmost respect and consideration.

You are bringing the femininity, the womanhood, the pleasure and the joy.

I have had men that I never slept with take me out for years, dancing, dinning, cocktails, concerts; solely for the pleasure of my feminine company. Just to be near The Feminine Energy I carry.

petitpoupee · 2021-03-08T21:00:57+00:00

I honestly love being called a gold digger. I mean, yes baby, glad you noticed that I don’t fuck with broke men 💕

pretty_kill · 2021-03-08T18:39:45+00:00

I am an FDS noob. I was struggling with this for awhile, because I had been so brainwashed by libfem and “equality”. Even now I am still struggling tbh. However I think I figured it out (for myself at least).

The way I have been thinking about it lately is like this... a man who considers me valuable and a potential “dreamgirl” is not going to risk it with any of this crap about going Dutch being equality. He’s going to do everything in his power to ensure I go on another date with him. He won’t hesitate to jump on the check because he doesn’t want to risk anything being something that will potentially turn me off of him, especially something as trivial as a check. Added onto that, he wants to take care of me, if he sees me as dreamgirl potential.

So if he doesn’t attempt to pay for me, I’m not his dreamgirl, and he’s gonna be still looking for her. Therefore he’s not worth my time. This example of him not paying then “finding someone else” is already in the comments.

Maybe later down the line I would be okay going half, mainly if I’m the one asking him out for food, AND we are already in an established relationship. It really depends on each of our finances. I would love a boyfriend who could take care of me that way the entire duration of our relationship, but I understand if that’s not possible because it’s pretty normal for people to eat out every day. As long as he adds value to my life in other ways, and he values me as a partner, I am fine being flexible and doing 50/50 later on if we are eating out all the time. If it’s like a date night, and he is inviting, yeah I’d still like him to pay.

So if we aren’t in a relationship yet and he starts trying to go Dutch, I’m gonna assume he’s not interested anymore because he wouldn’t do that with his dreamgirl. Therefore I am not his dreamgirl.

But I am still just learning and have yet to even put this in action (not doing OLD rn), so if you disagree please let me know why in a respectful matter.

sleepykittn · 2021-03-09T03:26:05+00:00

Ultimately what helped me understand being against 50/50 is that cheap dates are so they can afford constant dates with more women. So a man thats actually into you will try to impress you and i can vouch from experience. A guy i wasnt even technically on a date with spent $200 on me hanging out with no kiss or entitlement. He was a gentleman and said he wouldve spent more with no expectations. He wasnt rich, he was a junior bartender but thats where he invested his minimum wage.

Romance is a luxury and thats what we deserve if were investing any time with men. And we've seen men teaching eachother how to trick women to pay 100%.

sweet_birthday_babyy · 2021-03-08T18:53:23+00:00

I only ever want to date somebody who is generous and loves to pay and spoil me. Refusing 50/50 means weeding all others out.

DifferentBar6 · 2021-03-09T03:52:52+00:00

Went on a couple of dates with a guy. He paid.

After a dinner, he hinted at me paying.

He was the one who was inviting me out.

If an inexpensive dinner is too much, then I’m out.

It was a big turn off.

And that was the end of that.

shewasnumber0ne · 2021-03-08T17:27:22+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Sewud · 2021-03-08T16:07:16+00:00

I think paying is also an ego thing. We don't want to have someone else pay for us. But men don't like it when women have an ego. They would much rather date the naive girl who is happy to have stuff paid for her and who doesn't even think she could pay. They don't like strong independent women. They want weak women without agency. They love that stuff when a woman is useless and needs them in a way that's easy. I'm not sure where I'm going with this, but paying might be useless.

2021-03-09T01:34:43+00:00

I also think that its poor form for someone to invite\ask you out on a date and then not pay for it. 'Like this whole thing was your idea.' Whoever asks should pay and since I never ask (sperm chases the egg) I don't think I should ever have to pay.

UncharismaticHuman · 2021-03-08T23:04:10+00:00

I used to do the 50/50 with my ex not because i hate feeling like owe something to men especially. But thinking back, I have always mistrusted men in general because of past experiences, and this one used emotional pressure to get any sexual favor he wanted. Thank god i got out of that relationship.

bravebeautyx · 2021-03-08T23:32:17+00:00

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

denverkris · 2021-03-09T02:41:10+00:00

I just wanted to make clear that I do NOT believe in 50/50. I posted that clip from twitter cause she owned it :D

shadowlillium · 2021-03-09T05:57:21+00:00

Way I heard it: “You are paying for my time, presence, my presentation(makeup/clothes/hair products/perfume), and opportunity to interview for potential husband. Paying for the date is the least he can offer.”

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smol_kitty · 2021-03-09T00:41:22+00:00

Does anyone have any take on more relaxed dates? Say drinking at a pub / bar. Or is the M.O. to never go somewhere casual?

fancy_tetrahedron · 2021-03-08T15:38:55+00:00

Can someone link me the part of the Handbook that explains why men should always pay? I searched but couldn't find it. I've always been a 50/50 person, a man paying for my stuff makes me feel like a gold digger.

dulcinea87 · 2021-03-08T17:58:40+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Summerisle7 · 2021-03-09T00:37:55+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	Pickmes and Newbies listen up. We don't do 50/50. Read the Handbook, but also consider this:
Author	penelopekitty
Upvotes	1823
Comments	193
Date	March 8, 2021 1:40 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/FemaleDatingStrategy
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/m0fvxw/pickmes_and_newbies_listen_up_we_dont_do_5050/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/pickmes-and-newbies-listen-up-we-dont-do-5050-read.1191056 https://theredarchive.com/post/1191056

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