Men should be able to safely approach women without fear of humiliation or being shamed, and there should be more venues other than bars for meeting women

Good_Result2787 · 2024-02-28T20:46:39+00:00

I don't disagree things are difficult, but I don't think you can do social human interaction without managing your own fears or biases. Or, to perhaps be more specific, the "should" in your title is something I might disagree with. I certainly think it would be good if people didn't humiliate others, but I don't know how men "should be able to" do something like approaching without fear unless they are able to manage their fear.

treadmarks · 2024-02-28T22:27:37+00:00

I don't... what? I have never been deliberately humiliated or shamed for approaching a woman. If you're afraid of this it's a problem on your end. I think you're actually shaming yourself with your own insecurities and then blaming women.

For people with no social skills, here's a cool tip. If someone tries to humiliate you, you can do it back to them. It's called "trash talk" and anyone who does this to you for merely daring to speak to them probably deserves to get shit on.

Azihayya · 2024-02-29T14:27:42+00:00

There's this guy that hangs out around the cafe sometimes. He always has a stupid joke on his mind, and he'll sit there and stop like every third or fourth person who passes by to open with this joke. I've seen so many people sit there patiently and smile and laugh along with the guy, and I decided, if that guy tries this shit on me, I'm not gonna pander to him, appease him, and sit there and laugh and say, "Oh yeah? Haha, that's funny."--it's bullshit, and his personality is bullshit, and it's annoying.

A few days ago I was walking down the street with my headphones in when this delivery driver hails me, and I stop to listen to see if I can help. I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt as he starts telling me, "Hey, you know how people wear T-shirts with words from foreign languages on them that they don't know what it means?"--I started to put my ear bud back in and walk away when I remembered the guy was expecting a response, "Yeah," I said and walked away before hearing the point he was trying to get to, no doubt expecting me to reciprocate whatever dumb thought he had bouncing around in his head.

Instead of framing this idea that women don't want anything to do with you as "being humiliated", you can just accept that you were turned down, and that it's nobody's fault, and there's nothing to be ashamed of. People aren't and shouldn't be obligated to sit there and take care of your feelings and reciprocate whatever is going on in your head.

This is a complete non-issue. Instead of worrying about this, just grow up and learn how to handle your thoughts and feelings.

TheRedPillRipper · 2024-02-28T20:42:33+00:00

without fear

Who controls this ‘fear?’ For naturally shy people, it’s a understandable. That said, overcoming this fear is surmised well by Eric Thomas; ”On the other side of fear; is success.”

Godspeed and good luck!

Safinated · 2024-02-28T21:44:23+00:00

Then women should be able to have sex, exist and show off their fun bits without fear of harassment or retaliation.

We can all be perfect and have absolute virtue together, how about it ? You guys first, though

MidoriEgg · 2024-02-28T20:56:59+00:00

What do you count as humiliation and shame? I agree men should be able to approach women without being made fun of, but some men think rejection in of itself is humiliating and shameful.

BigZaddyZ3 · 2024-02-28T20:46:27+00:00

The problem with that is a lot of guys are more sensitive than they let on. So they take even something as simple as a “no, thanks” as “humiliation and shame”. So it’s not an easy “problem” to fix. Because the “problem” is totally within some guy’s minds more than anything. I’ve seen guys that literally take a woman’s rejection to mean she hates that he even exists. 😂

bluepvtstorm · 2024-02-28T21:10:05+00:00

I am so confused. If you approach a woman and she says no then why are you ashamed or humiliated.

The interaction is short and sweet. What more needs to be done to make it better for you? Should she talk to you so then you can say she led you on?

What do you want out of the interaction to not be ashamed?

demedermidimi · 2024-02-28T20:48:32+00:00

not again

MistyMaisel · 2024-02-28T20:53:12+00:00

Shame is an internal feeling of having done wrong. So...if you don't feel you did wrong, don't be ashamed. If you did do wrong, you're meant to feel ashamed.

Humiliation is something you have to accept. So, if you haven't done anything foolish, wrong, or mockable, don't accept humiliation.

Fear is your own internal issue as well. Don't be afraid or take courage and act through fear.

There are more venues. The men struggling just don't like those either because they require both a greater field of interests outside of a very small comfort zone and a greater social skill and awareness to navigate than even bars or college (which aren't easy).

MongoBobalossus · 2024-02-28T21:02:18+00:00

Someone turning down your advances isn’t shaming or humiliating.

And you can literally meet women anywhere. It doesn’t have to be at a bar.

bzl33 · 2024-02-28T20:53:02+00:00

you're not likely to be humiliated or shamed but you will hear a lot of no's unless you're really attractive. I agree though that you don't really make close friends after college.

I'd say if you're worried about this stuff stick with dating apps and meeting people through the people you already know.

Mayfloweronthewall · 2024-02-28T20:57:37+00:00

Even when those women are polite in their rejection, you'll still feel humiliated. Just admit you're scared of rejection instead of hiding behind this narrative you all like to claim stops men from approaching. It's a cope to make yourselves feel better. There's nothing wrong with fearing rejection.

spanglesandbambi · 2024-02-28T21:31:16+00:00

If you think the word no is humiliation how on earth are you a functioning adult?

-Shes-A-Carnival · 2024-02-28T22:52:25+00:00

and i should be able to eat a whole birthday cake every day and not gain weight

apresonly · 2024-02-28T20:50:39+00:00

why is men's safety more important than women's safety?

Tricky_Dog1465 · 2024-02-28T21:01:14+00:00

How is no humiliation or shaming?

GridReXX · 2024-02-29T00:37:33+00:00

Can you confirm that you mean those women are actively insulting, shaming, and disparaging you? And provide some examples. That's the only way I might be on board with the title.

But right now I can't tell if you mean you feel shamed and humiliated? Because she could be simply rejecting your advances and you might feel shamed or humiliated, but that doesn't mean she actively shamed or humiliated you.

GGMcThroway · 2024-02-29T00:21:51+00:00

Women should be able to politely reject men without having to fear for their safety.

and there should be more venues other than bars for meeting women Debate

I do agree with this tho.

januaryphilosopher · 2024-02-28T21:08:41+00:00

Nobody gets to do anything without the risk of shame. You don't get to be immune to accountability or criticism just because you're asking someone out. That's no bad thing either, obviously you can be rude or hurt people and knowing it can be discussed discourages people from behaving inappropriately. And you can meet people everywhere, you can just say you don't like places other than bars for meeting women.

noafrochamplusamurai · 2024-02-28T21:24:41+00:00

Join a social club, join a group that shares a current hobby of yours, join a group for a hobby you're interested in learning about. Join a coed adult rec league, the real life hack is joining fetlife. Life is a full contact sport, you're gonna get bruised if you play.

BaiKingu · 2024-02-28T20:53:43+00:00

My god, you can’t ever approach a stranger without risks. Just get over it.

Y’all really aren’t masculine at all and then wonder why you’re failing in dating.

Like I think I might be more of a man than y’all and I literally have breasts and weigh 115 lbs because when I see someone I would like to chat to, I just do it.

Grow a pair seriously.

ta06012022 · 2024-02-28T21:28:30+00:00

Online dating is obviously a joke

Online dating is now the most common way for people to meet their spouse. That seems to include platforms like instagram and not just dating apps, but online overall is still the most common way. It’s hard to call it a joke.

HCHDGSH · 2024-02-29T07:59:06+00:00

I go up to meet her, not for her to accept me or validate me, but to screen for compatibility. I know what I want, and I'm there to find out if she's down. Yes or no. Black or white. 1 or 0. Binary.

Everything but a yes is simply a no. Whether she says "I appreciate it but I'm not interested unfortunately" or she spazzes out and gives a disproportionate response, I found out what I wanted to know.

And how can a woman shame and humiliate you exactly? That can only be given if you take it. Yeah I'm a man who wants to meet a woman because I'm sexually interested in her. Nobody on this fucking planet can convince me there is something wrong with that.

Get your ego out of it and don't internalize anything she says if you know you're not doing anything wrong. And you can exit an interaction at any time. If she starts freaking out just turn around mid sentence and leave her where she stands.

commentasaurus1989 · 2024-02-28T22:01:00+00:00

Explain why the world should cater to your feelings?

Legitimate_Type_1324 · 2024-02-29T15:48:15+00:00

No.

You're approaching. You're interrupting someone. You don't know if that someone wants to be interrupted or not.

You aren't entitled to other people's positive reactions when you get in their way.

Sorry dude. That's not the way

MyLastBestChance · 2024-02-28T22:31:38+00:00

Women should be able to go about our everyday lives without feeling obligated to cater to the tender feefees of random men who have decided that we should want to have sex with them and aren’t happy when we disagree…

TRTGymBro · 2024-02-28T22:21:21+00:00

Write your congressman.

Soul_vaccine · 2024-02-28T21:06:25+00:00

You should take a page from ole Boomhauer

bluestjuice · 2024-02-28T22:42:59+00:00

Shame is a really clumsy tool with extremely limited healthy applications. Not only is it a bad feeling, it’s a bad feeling whose focus is the kind of person you are. At its fundamental level it’s about having transgressed against society in a nearly unforgivable way; the kind of transgression that the people around you want you to never, ever do again. It has some utility in relatively simple societies with fairly straightforward social rules. ‘Don’t desecrate corpses; don’t kill people; don’t put your dick in the mashed potatoes.’ In this limited sense it works as a strong disincentive to these transgressive actions.

We don’t live in a simple society with straightforward social rules, and shame is increasingly maladaptive for us. It doesn’t encourage learning and growth, both because it challenges the internal sense of self-worth and because it only shows what must not be done, not what should be done instead.

All of which is to say, as much as cold approaches are tiresome and annoying, shame is really the wrong way for people to go about discouraging them.

5dddviking25 · 2024-02-29T04:18:29+00:00

where do people even meet people these days?

i literally have no idea how couples meet. i have almost zero opportunites yet i go outside and most people are in couples. it makes no sense to me at all like im in the twilight zone or something

ConanTheCybrarian · 2024-02-29T05:27:58+00:00

Humiliation and shame suck and ideally they wouldn't be such large parts of the dating experience. But there is nothing "UNSAFE" about them. Having your feelings hurt or being embarrassed are not risks to your life.

Women being approached by men have to worry about actual physical safety. Turning down men can literally lead to assault or even more.

plantsadnshit · 2024-02-29T01:29:41+00:00

Imagine being an attractive woman.

You go to a cafe to have a lunch with your friends. Throughout your meal you are interrupted by 6 different men who all want to ask you out, and you have to politely decline all of them since you aren't interested.

This is what will happen if you normalise approaching women in public spaces. It would be horrible for some people.

Just don't do it.

Searchtheanswer · 2024-02-29T03:31:02+00:00

Fear is your own personal anxiety and feelings. That is something YOU need to work on. You can approach whoever you want once you have the right mindset.

KayRay1994 · 2024-02-29T01:39:11+00:00

I mean…. what’s stopping you? unless someone is being creepy or the person being hit on is particularity mean, nobody is being shamed or humiliated. Hell, the vast majority of times the worst that’ll happen is she’ll ignore or you tell you to leave her alone.

Shaming or humiliating a normal, friendly approach is rare and the people who do that are a minority, and if you feel shamed or humiliated by the idea of being rejected, that’s something for you to figure out.

Conscious_Run2722 · 2024-02-29T03:52:06+00:00

Who are you reporting tothe principal of dates?

You are lacking in initiative to go out to other places?

ColbyXXXX · 2024-02-29T11:12:41+00:00

Bro wants everyone to be happy for him talking to girls who don’t want to be talked to. You gotta encourage yourself because that is not the job of other people.

Also why don’t you guys use social media to date like everyone else. You can send all the dms you want with zero shame and you get to only show the good parts and she can’t tell how short you are. I never approach women in real life lol.

SyllabubSure5715 · 2024-02-28T21:07:09+00:00

It’s a lie men can’t approach. The truth is we don’t approach when women desperately want us to.

TarJen96 · 2024-02-28T20:49:18+00:00

You can already do this if you're hot enough. When women complain about men hitting on them, they're only talking about unattractive men.

Prudent-Conflict-557 · 2024-02-29T11:42:35+00:00

They can and they are.

Ok-Expression7575 · 2024-02-28T21:00:08+00:00

Yup, it's harder to be a man than a woman for relationships. That's life, deal with it or rant about it on the internet. Your choice.

obviousredflag · 2024-02-29T10:43:03+00:00

So you are unable to deal with reality and conform to social norms, maybe because you have never been socialized or you are autistic, so you ask for the world to be your little safe space where you can be as unadapted and awkward as you want without people telling or showing you that you don't fit in and are not what they want? Not going to happen. You adapt to us. And if you don't we have the tools of shame and humiliation to make you.

Shame is a good thing. Look up shame on wikipedia. It has an important function in human communities to enforce social norms, so living with each other works. Shaming people and feeling shame is necessary. When i feel ashamed, i know i did something wrong and i have a motivation to change my behavior so i both don't feel ashamed anymore and other people do not need to shame me so i behave in a way that is in accordance with community values. Shaming others is a tool to tell them "you should self-evaluate, your behavior is not adapted to social norms and is hurting social cohesion or how you are seen and treated by others. It's in your interest to not violate our social norms".

With humiliation, it's the same thing: "It can be brought about [...]by embarrassment if a person is revealed to have committed a socially or legally unacceptable act." You need to realize when you violate social norms.

Yet outside of these two abysmal options, people are essentially limited to their immediate social network or workplace for meeting women.

Except you are missing everything you do in your spare time that involves other people, including women. It's your choice to spend your time with stuff that doesn't include meeting and talking to women. If you don't like all the options that bring you into contact with women that other people use, maybe you are the problem and not the world. If people needed other options, they would create them. Something you should do yourself, instead of asking for others to create the options you want.

After college, if you even go, most people have formed their social circles and branch off from there. Any additional friends they make are through work. That is extremely limiting, and the odds are heavily stacked against us.

You can add people to your social network at any time in your life. You choose to not talk to people, you choose to not go where people are, you choose to have hobbies that don't involve real life people or women, you choose to be home alone.

The world is not going to change so you can have friends or a girlfriend. You have to change.

SyllabubSure5715 · 2024-02-28T21:12:02+00:00

I don’t give two fucks about being “afraid”. I’m 6 feet 200lbs, like Dr Dre said you chances of jacking me are slim. I could clean up. I don’t approach because women aren’t worth approaching. They all play the same exact game. What’s the point?

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wtknight · 2024-02-28T20:43:51+00:00

[permanently deleted]

HumpsyDumpsy · 2024-02-29T13:09:38+00:00

Fear of humiliation and shame, due to the fear of rejection? Rejection isn't exclusive to the male experience, people in general must confront those same fears, but that's what adulthood is about- taking risks, and accepting what we can control and what we cannot.

There are tons of women everywhere, outside of bars and dating apps. Focus on your hobbies and interests, then go to those types of social places. Just enjoy your time there, and if you happen to meet a lady, you fancy, then bonus.

CommieRedEyes · 2024-02-29T15:08:40+00:00

Wish in one hand, shit in the other. How many subs have you posted this dipshit question to already OP?

Sadsad0088 · 2024-02-29T17:31:08+00:00

What do you mean by humiliation or shame?

Comms · 2024-02-29T18:53:05+00:00

Men should be able to safely approach women without fear of humiliation or being shamed

What does that look like? If you were to create an ideal scenario what are you envisioning?

Magnito-was-right · 2024-02-29T21:25:56+00:00

Men often don't take polite rejections seriously and will try to convince women. When I was married I showed them my ring and said sorry I'm already married and a guy insisted it was fake and wouldn't leave me alone until I gave him two hugs and agreed to meet him at the same coffee shop for a date the next day. I've never been back to that coffee shop and I was a regular before then. I'm still polite when I turn men down but sometimes men push boundaries if they think the woman is nice and they can get her to cave.

Mentathiel · 2024-03-01T16:42:32+00:00

You can go volunteer, all volunteer spaces are overwhelmingly women-dominated, so you'd probably be popular.

You can sign up for some hobby classes that are women-dominated or mixed gender where there are opportunities for interaction.

You can also go to hobby clubs, like board game clubs and similar, where you can meet people.

There are conferences and conventions both professional and hobby-related where people often cold approach others for networking, so you have a context where it's very acceptable.

You can take in foreign exchange students if you have the space for them at your home, they often have a lot of activities where they meet other exchange students and locals that you as their host would be invited to as well.

Some cities have meetup events over Facebook or city/state subreddits here where people can meet.

Oh, and owning a dog can be great for meeting people in your neighborhood! A lot of people will approach to pet it, strike up a convo. You'll meet other dog owners because your dogs will play. You may start seeing them regularly if you walk dogs at the same time and maybe even start deliberately going at the same time so your dogs could play and you have time to slowly build up rapport. It's probably better to go for friendships here unless you guys are seriously hitting it off from the get go, as these people can then introduce you to their entire social circles instead of possibly fucking it up with neighbors and losing doggie playmates lol.

Idk what else, but there must be other things. A lot of these things might not be a part of your routine currently and require modifying it to fit them into it, but unfortunately things don't come for free. It's kind of toxic how we're taught growing up that relationships are kind of free. You don't have to put effort in, you see each other every day in class regardless, you're exposed to new people by design, your parents take you to see family, etc. As you age, these things stop being true. You have to reach out, you have to do the boring logistics of organizing a meetup, you have to call your family every once in a while, you have to actively sign up and go places where you can meet new people, and you have to do all this on a drastically shortened schedule from what it used to be when you were young and didn't have fulltime work and all chores being your responsibility etc. And nobody informs you that you now have to do all this, they just sort of quietly slide into the mode of engaging with an adult now and you have to notice it, accept it, and work on it, and most people won't acknowledge the effort.

Ectoplasmic1984 · 2024-03-01T23:37:42+00:00

and of course, people and society will always expect men to have natural instinctive innate common sense for knowing what is creepy behavior and what is not when interacting with women

Title	Men should be able to safely approach women without fear of humiliation or being shamed, and there should be more venues other than bars for meeting women
Author	The-Loop
Upvotes	38
Comments	295
Date	February 28, 2024 8:38 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1b2gq01/men_should_be_able_to_safely_approach_women/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/men-should-be-able-to-safely-approach-women.1246692 https://theredarchive.com/post/1246692

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