For all the talk about the differences between men and women, men here seem to ignore the gender differences when it comes to the topic of sex.

antariusz · 2026-01-16T18:39:02+00:00

It's not that we don't acknowledge that the difference exists.

The problem is that, if she doesn't have a strong desire for you, then she won't desire you even moreso a few years down the road when attraction starts to wane in every relationship. Don't waste your resources on a woman that doesn't desire you. That's why men give advice the way we do.

Because (again, a difference in the genders) a woman will absolutely use you for your resources even if she has no desire for you romantically.

But protecting men from women is called sexism. Protecting women from men is called "smashing the patriarchy"

Brilliant-Block-8200 · 2026-01-16T19:31:50+00:00

Also, a lot of men don’t acknowledge or refuse to acknowledge that there’s a big difference in being the penetrator vs being the penetrated party. The later is much more vulnerable

Pnina310 · 2026-01-16T19:32:49+00:00

💯

JollyRoger66689 · 2026-01-16T17:26:00+00:00

Ugh Lilith and the strawmen attack again

Men here definitely do talk about how sex is different for women

Men sleeping lower than their league isn't "blamed on women", it's one of the things people point to to try and explain why so many women seem to think that they deserve such a great guy and won't settle for less

Historical-Ear-5666 · 2026-01-16T16:40:19+00:00

Women generally have very reactive arousal.

And visceral (visual trigger like men) attraction is generally rare for women by nature.

Women have no issue being reactively aroused by average men.

They only ever get viscerally aroused by particularly attractive men.

But average men tend to be convinced that if she doesn't have visceral attraction for him, then she doesn't like him. Most women historically have never had visceral attractions to their husband. That doesn't mean a real sexual attraction was absent. It was reactive.

It's biology that they work this way but it's conveniently disregarded to ig save an ego.

Edit:

It's weird that they acknowledge the men are disadvantaged but when like it becomes more biologically direct rather than it being women's overall social tendencies guided by biology there tends to be push back again it. Almost as if saying "it can't be THAT bad" or something.

It gives me the same sort of energy with how men here get really attached to the notion that most younger women don't like men when they get older. Even if a subset of older men(very few statistically speaking) pull younger women.

I don't know if I have the word to describe what I mean but I'll try it.

Also the inverse of gender based moralization happens here.

Outside of this sub men's innate sexual behaviors are moralized. But in this sub it's specifically women.

If you can say it's social tendencies guided by biology, then you can reasonably say they still have a choice to moderate and then you can even moralize them because they have a choice.

But if it's as direct biology to behavior this moralization doesn't track as cleanly, especially with Redpill ideology ("""praxeology""") that believes dating is amoral. They can't actually sit up here and talk about women and how "bad they are" then.

IgorXY · 2026-01-16T16:54:02+00:00

Finding a guy attractive does not mean women are going to immediately act on lust, especially if she’s on the cautious side when it comes to sleeping with a stranger. It’s extremely unrealistic to think most women will become filled with intense lust and immediately hop into a guy‘s bed. Also, women prefer relationships. Relationships are about love, not sex. Love takes time.

Some do, some don't. The problem is when the same women do both and can't even own it like adult and instead come up with weird explanations and blame external forces for their decisions.

This has nothing to do with sex, we are not animals. Every action we take has a reason behind it.

mashedturnip · 2026-01-16T17:27:45+00:00

Entitlement is a helluva drug

FearInoculumTool · 2026-01-16T20:25:08+00:00

Most ideas, both red pill and black pill, have originated from men who were not getting laid or had trouble getting laid.

Many of the early pickup gurus, were also just total nerds in high school who were bottom of the rung. Such people form a specific view of the world that offers only a tiny slice of what is actually happening. As the saying goes, you start with a wide horizon spanning in all directions, and that horizon narrows down more and more until it become a single point. And that, is your point of view!

The point of view of red and black pill individuals is very limited. They draw vast conclusions out of limited evidence or worse! They make astute observations, but draw completely irrational although seemingly logical conclusions.

Many things are peddled as truth: men are only valued for what they do! Men are born worthless and with no value! A man is only worthwhile if he is 6’+ and has the face of a Greek god, etc. Irrational conclusions passed off as logic.

It’s the same basic model as computers. Garbage in, garbage out. If you only feed your brain garbage information and incorrect data, the outcome will also be garbage and incorrect. If you have never had success with women, what advice can you offer? How can you speak confidently about the nature of women if you are a self admitted kissless virgin?

Yes, men and women are very different. We both make the mistake of projecting our arousal mechanisms and requirements onto the other sex. Men need two things to become aroused: a woman who is attractive enough (which can change based on just how horny they are or how many beers they’ve had) AND that she is willing.

So men apply the same “logic” to women and think: if I was a hot woman, everybody would be willing! So all I would need to do is scream at the top of my lungs “I will fuck anybody who wants me!!!” And at least a portion of the men who will form a queue will be attractive enough for me.

But, this doesn’t really happen, so men (erroneously) conclude that women’s standards must be SOOOOOOO high that only 0.0001% must be able to meet them. And that everyone else is doomed!

But the reality is that women do get aroused and laid by many different men, but their requirements to get aroused and be able to engage in sex are just different. They require a man who is confident in himself and his sexual abilities, who is charming, who is engaging and who can lead her on a journey that she gladly wants to follow. Hey, quite different from attractive AND willing.

Big-Bodybuilder-5035 · 2026-01-16T16:53:46+00:00

They also do the same thing when it comes to hitting women or raping them but don't demonize men or something

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berichorbeburied · 2026-01-16T17:00:09+00:00

I’ve consistently been saying women are asexual

That acknowledges differences

Women base their sexuality on things that have nothing to do with sexuality or appearance

That’s why as a Man U need to focus on obtaining consensual sex from a woman

They don’t look at sex the same way and they aren’t attracted the same way

So it’s pointless to try to have women react the same way as men

Therefore I’ve changed my aim to just obtaining consensual sex

Because a lot of sec is what I want as a man. What she wants is everything outside of sex

OldStatement7037 · 2026-01-16T16:57:03+00:00

37m here.

The whole " She needs to jump on it right away" isnt really a statement of attraction, moreso about not playing games. Unless she is a religious virgin or something.

Most men's experience with this topic is this. She has a body count 20x his. She has been in the dating scene "single" for 5 years. Never had a long term relationship. So her playing the "Shes dating with intention" game is nonsense. And in majority of those situations if she does not sleep with you quickly then she is just wasting your time trying to get him to invest without getting much back.

Here's generally how it goes. Her dating profile says " NO HOOK UPS". ( Most of my hooks had that in their profiles ).
She will expect traditional effort and energy. And she will "wait" for sex. But in reality she is doing the same thing to 7 other guys. Using each guy for whatever purpose she keeps them around for. One guy good for talking, other has a nice car, another for her ego. And during that entire time she is still talking to her ex and calling him over at 2am after the date.
( Ive been that guy she calls over ). And after she strings those men along she either goes back to her ex or finds a new guy who came along, put in no effort and she gives 100% to him.

The "She will sleep with you on the first date" basically means She likes you and things just flow. She isnt putting up a list of demands or playing dumb games.

Women dont seem to see that men have to deal with MANY women just to get a date so we see the SAME behaviors constantly. I cant count the number of women who tried to "slut shame" me as a man while her body count was like 70 and mine was 5 at the time. And the only reason we matched on Tinder was because she was looking for a hookup.

Ok_Cook_3098 · 2026-01-16T16:53:33+00:00

Basically no normal men expects a woman to have sex with him on the first date

This is a typical case of "i date only chad so every man must behave this way"

Former_Range_1730 · 2026-01-16T18:52:12+00:00

When men say,

"“if a woman doesnt fuck you immediately, she doesn't desire you"

they don't mean, women should have sex with every guy she interacts with. They mean, if she really desires you, she will have sex with you very soon. So, when a man meets a woman, and she claims to be interested, but it's been a month and no sex, when she was giving up her body to guys before within a week, it tells you that she was more passionately interested in those other guys, than you. Otherwise, she'd be all over you.

The best kind of woman is one with a really low body count. Say 2 men by 25. That shows that she's serious about the men she chooses. She doesn't just give it up for any guy. So when she meets you, guy number 3, and she knows you desire a long committed relationship, and she's passionately into you, she's having sex with you within a week, and you'll be dating for months until the marriage talk happens, and then you get married.

What guys want to avoid is the woman who pretend to be really into you, when really you're her third choice and she'd rather be with Tom down the street, but can't have him, so she settles for you.

ChewedMyWayOutOfThat · 2026-01-16T19:01:12+00:00

gender differences only “count” when they benefit men’s narrative

Or when they try to equate men's and women's culpability and responsibility with regard to unwanted pregnancies as if the circumstances and outcomes are the same, when they clearly aren't.

Last time l fucking checked: women don't get men pregnant. We don't irresponsibly deposit our eggs into a man and fuck off, like men do constantly. Also, men don't go through pregnancy and childbirth or abortion. Women do and once she gets pregnant, she has no choice but to either go through pregnancy and childbirth or abortion. There is no third fucking option where she gets to run off into the woods and avoid both childbirth or abortion.

If you can't make us cum (and we can prove you don't because men are self-absorbed, irresponsible cunts), the least you could fucking do is wear a condom.

So to recap:

Men are pretty much guaranteed an orgasm when they have sex. if men get someone pregnant and fuck off, men blame the woman for not being clairvoyant and being able to predict and judge the character and responsibility level of the man. It somehow never occurs to the irresponsible cunt man, who knows he's an irresponsible cunt, to assume a bare minimum level of responsibility and wear a condom, because men are entitled to unfettered orgasms.

Men will never hold another man responsible. Why? Because it collectively limits their sexual behavior and men feel entitled to sexual freedom for men only. But somehow, they have the fucking balls to shame and limit women's sexuality via slutshaming.

Whereas women rarely orgasm, even in long term relationships. When they do orgasm with another person, it's usually with other women. Women go thorough pregnancy and childbirth or abortion and deal with all the side effects and complications. Some women even die in childbirth. When the kid is here, men won't even watch their children without complaining. Then the kid gets the man's last name.

So how did we get to such a lopsided tally of responsibility between men and women? Oh, l don't know. A little something called the fucking patriarchy, maybe?

Irresponsible cunt men. May your dicks stay drier than a Fig Newton in the Sahara.

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onetimeuseaccc · 2026-01-16T22:23:55+00:00

Because women find most men unattractive. Although it'll never be as easy quick as most men if they see an attractive woman , I believe most women would have sex with a man quite quickly if he was attractive it's just that most men are extremely unattractive to women.

4444-uuuu · 2026-01-16T23:35:55+00:00

Nothing you said is accurate.

women dont enjoy hook ups that much

hookup culture literally only exists because women want it. It didn't exist before Second Wave Feminism. Many men told women to stop hooking up and were called misogynists. Hookup culture became standard once women got all of the power in dating. Every woman who is hooking up also has men who want a serious relationships. Yes, obviously surveys show that women aren't happy, but they're still the ones choosing it. All you're doing is proving that women who are influenced by feminism make shitty self-destructive decisions which is something any man could have told you. But it's still women who are driving hookup culture, not men.

Also, women prefer relationships.

Obviously false. Again, relationships were the norm BEFORE feminism took over and make casual sex the norm. Once women had all the power, that's when casual sex became common.

Relationships are about love, not sex. Love takes time.

And which sex rejects the other for taking too much time again? Not men. Women are the ones who ditch any man, no matter how hot, if he waits too long to make a move.

This is why guys need to be upfront about wanting hook ups if they’re going to whine about women who “withhold sex”.

men aren't exactly hiding it. Women are choosing men who want hookups because you think those men are more manly. Men who want relationships get rejected for not being assertive enough.

seriously are you a teenager? Or just a woman without a social life?

No-Rough-7390 · 2026-01-17T00:26:46+00:00

I mean, I think we talk about hypergamy a lot.

And I’m find treating women individually, but I’d still say their past behavior as individual is super relevant to the behavior they exhibit today.

Also the differences you cite kind of explain themselves. The women you talk about who think they are hot shit for banging a guy out of their league become confused when the guy the can get to commit is a far lower tier.

AwesomeXav · 2026-01-17T00:51:54+00:00

visit r/deadbedrooms for a month, it's not so much about the sex but about being desired.

minorcold · 2026-01-17T10:59:39+00:00

sadly, relationship is the only thing I want, and not a single girl I talked to, is into that aswell

Mikester258 · 2026-01-17T11:21:44+00:00

It's interesting how conversations about sex often overlook the complexities of gender dynamics, as if attraction is a simple equation when it’s really more like a nuanced dance with varying steps for each partner.

mrbonee69 · 2026-01-17T17:29:04+00:00

First of all, women dont enjoy hook ups that much

Another feminist lie. Women will do absolutely degenerate shit just to hook up with Chad.

Studies and surveys have showed women orgasm less with hookups than relationships.

Post a link to one of these "studies".

They’ll complain about “women thinking they’re hot shit just because they can get men out of their league for sex”. Well, if her primary goal is sex too, why wouldn’t she think she’s hot shit?

Those same women lament when the men they hook up with don't commit to them. Women think that they are owed a relationship because they gave up their hole to Chad. It's just like beta men who buy tons of shit for a woman and then bitch because she didn't sleep with him.

Also, why are we acting like it’s women’s fault that hot guys are willing to lower their looks standards for sex?

Because sex has consequences which women try to shift onto men as a whole.

Finding a guy attractive does not mean women are going to immediately act on lust

Yet they still do when given the opportunity.

In other words: gender differences only “count” when they benefit men’s narrative. When they make women’s choices look sensible and men’s demands look entitled, the differences mysteriously disappear.

Pure projection.

Intelligent-Insight · 2026-01-19T08:52:14+00:00

Finding a guy attractive does not mean women are going to immediately act on lust, especially if she’s on the cautious side when it comes to sleeping with a stranger.

That's perfectly fine. The problem begins if she did immediately act on lust with other men. Then it is pretty clear that she was attracted to them more.

Helpful-Walrus242 · 2026-01-20T08:23:22+00:00

I think it comes down to men having low self-esteem. Unfortunately they see women as objects who are meant to fulfill their desires that will help them feel like "the man"

To be honest, when men feel this way toward women (women as players to be used and moved around as the man desires in his game), they are likely habitual 🌽 users. Very common, sadly. They are so used to seeing women they are attracted to in 🌽 that now they believe women they meet with on dates should behave in the same manner and be hot and ready.

I fear for the future of the men in the generations to come. Their minds are getting messed up

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HiraldoCoil · 2026-01-24T07:50:37+00:00

I can't really explain without using RP naming conventions, so forgive me in advance: Most men(betas) see an alpha pickup and sleep with different strange women regularly and want the same thing. Let us remind ourselves that alpha and beta are just placeholders for guys who are good with women and guys who aren't.

Betas, the majority of men, feel disgruntled and insecure about this because they feel that the sex with them is transactional, routine and boring. Especially when the women, who are having the hookups with chad, are attractive and seem virtuous. One night stands are free from dinners, presents, love-languages, dates and "men acting right". “if a woman doesn't fuck you immediately, she doesn't desire you”. This is the sentiment out there in the streets, but more common redpill phrasing goes: "You can't negotiate attraction"

This very topic is at the core of redpill ideology and I'm glad you raised it. Men cannot be upfront about wanting sex, as women also cannot be upfront about the sex they've had, with a prospective love interest. The thinking process is "Why did you hop into chad's bed on the first night but not with me" "I was young foolish and he was attractive at the time" "Ok let me also find someone young foolish and who also thinks I'm attractive to have a one night stand with, we can do the relationship thing once I'm also done hooking up"

The redpill is complete, there are few holes to find except for the people who claim it as their own. Change in virtue also seems to go with age, unlike a desire for chad which remains as women get older. This also angers the beta, who feels like a retirement plan and not truly desired, some are preferring to hold out for younger women who either see them as physically or financially attractive or just want to hook up. What are the main drivers for women, who prefer relationships, to hookup with strangers? If you found the guy attractive and sure of a relationship/marriage would you have sex right away or still hold out?

Personal_Yam1228 · 2026-01-16T19:04:49+00:00

This whole “why is it women’s fault” line seems to be thrown into every single argument from women’s side, and does a lot of heavy lifting.

No, most men don’t think it’s women’s fault. Most men debating this stuff certainly understand the economics of sperm vs egg.

Speaking for myself, I simply aim to oppose a gynocentric society and establish men’s rights as an equal and opposing voice.

TheSkyIsData · 2026-01-16T18:29:52+00:00

Girl just because YOU don't enjoy sex and hookups that much doesn't mean other women don't. Also just so you know, birth control kills your libido and makes you view sex differently. Use condoms and plan b if you need, I just have a hunch it's affecting you.

Debetrius180 · 2026-01-16T17:21:52+00:00

I think a lot of your points are based and true, but I think women love sex just as much as men if not more, and are just as much into hook up culture as men are, if they weren’t, we wouldn’t even have a hook up culture, there are just typically more barriers of entry because of the inherent risk of being a woman in a sexual encounter.

Popeoath · 2026-01-16T20:06:21+00:00

Guys here and in the manosphere will claim “if a woman doesnt fuck you immediately, she doesnt desire you”.

That only applies to women who fucked other guys immediately.

If she's always been a more demisexual person, it's fine.

They’ll complain about “women thinking they’re hot shit just because they can get men out of their league for sex”. Well, if her primary goal is sex too, why wouldn’t she think she’s hot shit?

But you just said women didn't? Can't have it both ways.

If the type of woman who thinks she's "hot shit" for having tons of sex inexplicably doesn't want to have fast sex with you, yes it's fair to assume that she isn't properly attracted to you.

Reasonable_Mouse789 · 2026-01-16T20:20:24+00:00

Guys here and in the manosphere will claim “if a woman doesnt fuck you immediately, she doesnt desire you”. They never see to requested why they’re projecting the stereotypical male sexuality to women

Why would I believe you in spite of all the women who have proven you wrong to me? Am I supposed to rewrite history and be like “Oh, right, women have sex with guys they find disgusting!”. That’s not how it works at all. Young women are almost universally easy to get into bed if they’re physically attracted to you, and if they avoid doing that with you at all, then it probably just means they aren’t that attracted to you, and you should focus on someone else.

This is why guys need to be upfront about wanting hook ups if they’re going to whine about women who “withhold sex

Technically, I don’t have to be upfront at all, because tons of women just sort of hop into bed with guys they find attractive if you’re nice to her for a couple hours. Even when I was an 18 year old boy I would just go through the motions and message a few women for a few hours, get one or two of them enthusiastic with me, and then continue from there. Women are simple if you interact with them in large enough numbers (4+?) at once, and just take the ones who want to hop into bed with you or seem enthusiastic with you. They will likely have completely random personalities, backgrounds, etc., with the only real common denominator being that they’re physically attracted to me, they never ask any real questions about whether I’m searching for a relationship, and I probably need to be more sociable/flexible than they do to get what I want

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