Daily Community Chat Megathread

AutoModerator · 2022-01-17T02:00:11+00:00

This daily thread is designed to be a place for all the funny discussions on PPD. Feel free to post off-topic questions, information, points-of-view, etc... in...

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The whole “Hit The Wall At 30” mentality never ceases to piss me off just by how stupid it is. It’s mainly a concept pushed by creepy men who don’t well with women to begin with or men who aspire to have a 20 year old housewife.
Here’s some factors that the whole “Hit The Wall At 30” bullshitters don’t bring up:

Men don’t want to settle down super early either. In fact, in most cultures, they settle down later than women.
Most young people aren’t mature in general and they fuck around in their youth (intention or not), regardless of gender.
Speaking from experience, dating older men doesn’t work either because they typically are loser man-children.
While this subreddit likes to bitch and moan about single moms, the subreddit rarely brings up most single moms were young mothers.
I’ve talked with young mothers and older mothers. Both of them have advised not to settle down young. So who am I going to listen to? A bunch of dudes who most likely aren’t even parents, or women who have kids and understand the responsibilities?

[–]WilliamWyattD8 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]gimpgirl5551 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Haha no. What the 'Wall' points to is very real. Women age sexually worse than men do. The difference is not as pronounced as it once was, and getting smaller every year by a bit.

But this isn't about men vs women. It's about old women vs young women.

And as a general rule, old women can't compete. Imagine a 60 year old vs a 20 year old. It's no contest.

But with the smaller gap in the modern world, individual variation and how much you take care of yourself matter a lot more relative to the gender difference.

Yes, but it's a very small number of women who manage to stay relevant as they age.

Most men should never expect to find it easier to get laid than women of their same age, 'cause men having no standards will always be a thing.

But older men don't want older women anyway. So it's irrelevant.

[–]Mark_Freed1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

the 'Wall' is about comparing a gender's sexual attractiveness to itself over time. It isn't supposed to be a direct comparison of male to female SMV.

I could take your quotes and put them on my blog... if only I could openly talk about TRP ideas lol

great as usual. I had this idea that the Wall was about comparing the graphs of the avg male and female SMV and how women get worse age penalties than men...

But with your statement its not about comparing the two graphs and how the penaltities are worse and earlier... it is more about how the SMV of the women changes with respect to the past.

She finds she does not attract men like she used to after say mid 30s? That is an interesting way to look at it.

Do you think there is any truth to the claim that men's SMV peaks later in life, that even in mid 30s it is technically possible to attractive women of all ages from 20 to 40s? Because I hear from some people that assortative mating happens and people marry similar aged people, similar maturity, life goals, etc.

But then TRP says hypergamy, and dating happens with early 20s women dating post 30 men. Is that something only a small fraction of men enjoy? Is that because most men don't really try?

[–]LillthOfBabylon2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheJim663 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Men don’t want to settle down super early either. In fact, in most cultures, they settle down later than women.

What does this have to do with the Wall?

Most young people aren’t mature in general and they fuck around in their youth (intention or not), regardless of gender.

What does this have to do with the Wall?

Speaking from experience, dating older men doesn’t work either because they typically are loser man-children.

Compared to dating young men, who are known to be worldly sages.....

While this subreddit likes to bitch and moan about single moms, the subreddit rarely brings up most single moms were young mothers.

Young mothers who chose very poorly like women tend to do. But again, what does this have to do with the Wall?

A bunch of dudes who most likely aren’t even parents, or women who have kids and understand the responsibilities?

In general, when you have to choose who to listen, listen to men. Women are way too emotionally driven to offer reliable advice.

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[–]gimpgirl5552 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Your whole worldview is based on your kinks and the fact that your mother is willing to provide for you and your whole family. What you preach isn't realistic nor desirable for most people.

Sure it is. Just ask your mom for money. Threaten to cut her off if she refuses. In worst case ghost her for a few years. She'll come around.

Personally I prefer to listen to people with who have achieved things I strive for. Good education, financial independency, monogamous partnership etc. Your lifestyle isn't what I want to do myself, it's something I view as a nightmare.

I've had the best educations that money can buy, it was a waste of time. Education is not for women who want a family.

You're never gonna be financially independent in a major city. I'm sure it's different in the provinces.

Monogamy is out. High value men don't do monogamy.

[–]NarniaFox3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]gimpgirl5551 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

It isn't, because most people's parents aren't that wealthy to start with. They just can't afford providing for a bunch of adults and their kids.

In the Russian provinces? I have a relative in the provinces and she bought apartments for all three of her kids. If you're in your 50s then you should have some money saved up to help your kids. If you can't go to your parents then go to other relatives: aunts, cousins, or even neighbours.

If you can't get a home then you can at least get your rent paid, a car, or your groceries paid for.

Don't fall for the independence meme. Go and bother people.

Why? I'm changing the field, I'll have far better salary in a bigger city when we move.

Cuz big cities in Russia are very expensive. Duh.

Monogamy is in. I have it already. As well as financial independency in some way, I'd just prefer to have far higher income.

Guys don't want monogamy anymore.

A higher income isn't gonna help you when you have a kid.

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[–]gimpgirl5551 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

fair enough. Don't you face any insults? like relatives, peer group, neighbours, friends. Don't they look down on you for mooching off your mom?

I have a friend who lives off her parents too, it's not weird in my social circle. Some of my mom's friends don't like it, but they're losers. One woman is an old gold digger, another is crazy, the third one is into surgeries and travelling to tacky resorts. They have nothing on me. I stay home and raise kids.

I mean you have mentioned before you are surrounded by normies.

The normies think that my man betabuxxes. I tell them that he's a copyright attorney and works from home. It's boring enough that they don't ask questions.

How can you maintain your image when you live like this? don't you face any pressure to be independent, earn, etc?

I have four kids, everyone understands that I can't work.

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Look yourself in the mirror. Compare to average instathot or pornwhore. Then imagine that you were a man.

I am no instathot for sure, but my man seemed to be pretty into me last night, heh!

As long as you're hot and provide good service you'll be fine.

Usually the girls are not discarded by the men; rather, they mature a bit and realize they've cut a bad bargain for themselves. They've picked men who can't support them and the kids and won't help out around the house or with childcare. They become disgusted and resentful, and dump their first baby daddy. Some are content to just stay single and raise their kid(s) while others go off in search of a new baby daddy (sometimes using better judgment this time, but often not).

My extended family is chock-full of these young women and it's a damned shame. If they had had the good sense to put off romantic relationships and motherhood (especially the latter) until they had graduated from college or some other job training program, and could command a living wage, they would be far better off.

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[–]E-2-buteneProfessional Nice Guy 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago* (16 children) | Copy Link

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So, this might shock to you, but things can have multiple contributing factors. Also, the neglect in terms of unequal contributions to the household is absolutely mentioned.

I almost sat down, sperged out and did a bunch of math. But I’m going to hold off until I’m sure you’re actually arguing in good faith and give you the cliff notes first. Infidelity is a bad explanation for a between 2.5:1 and 4:1 divorce differential for two reasons. There are some minor points like the fact women leave relationships less after being cheated on, but I’ll leave those alone for now.

First, the cheating differential isn’t that wide. It’s like 1.4:1 at the absolute worst by population (likely more like 1.2-1.3:1). The gender disparity doesn’t get wide until men are older, but over-60s represent an increasingly smaller portion of the population, diluting their total influence. The rate was still only 1.5:1 in the 60s, and that still quite a bit smaller than the difference in divorce.

More to the point, though, divorce rates by age don’t correlate with the male infidelity advantage. The cohorts of women getting cheated on most are actually not the ones primarily divorcing their husbands. I hope it’s clear this doesn’t really make much sense.

As an aside, imagine characterizing someone as a “single young dude” who is actually in a serious LTR and just likes arguing about gender dynamics simply because you disagree with them. Would it make you feel better if I rattled off the papers I read on other subjects?

This place🤣 🤣 🙄 🙄

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I just mean we need to remember that this is all very complex and we don't understand everything.

But yes, I do not think basic kindness generally tends to stimulate female desire or attraction very much on a primal level. But women can often consciously decide to avoid a guy who is not nice at all, even if attracted. It's much harder to do the reverse and decide to be attracted to someone who would be good for you.

On the other hand, real kindness that displays a truly magnanimous character, especially if it earns respect and status, can trigger female desire. So can a guy having a lot of connections, with his decency and kindness forming the basis for this.

So it is complex. But yeah, teaching guys that being more and more kind, or loving a girl more and more strongly, is the way to win her over is stupid.

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That's an interesting point. Not only do a lot of studies maybe get polluted by attitudes of older women, attitudes quickly becoming irrelevant among the young, but they may also reflect mechanics of dating that are outdated.

I wouldn't necessarily say that personality is irrelevant because there is always someone compatible. There are lots of male personalities that, if exposed, are pretty universally undesirable. But the 'if exposed' is relevant.

Guys today are looking for hook ups, not always LTRs. They also aren't only meeting a couple of opportunities a month. The opportunities are only limited by their appearance. And in a hook up situation, even if you have shit persona, it's hit or miss whether enough time will pass for you to say something stupid that shows who you are and turns a girl off.

So a hot guy with even a weak and spergy persona will just keep getting hook up dates. On many of them, it just won't arise that he reveals a side of himself that cancels her attraction. He just keeps getting options and laid. The not hot guy just never gets an opportunity. Even if his personality might charm a girl and be able to get him laid where his picture does not, he never gets the chance.

So while in theory, a lot more than looks matter, in the actual dynamics of OLD and hook-up culture, up until a (very high) point of diminishing returns, all that matters is looks. At some ages and in some demographics, income/money matter, too. But as you say, same thing applies. If he's good looking he'll still get enough women looking for a hook up that don't care about his money. He just needs to spend a bit more time texting.

So in the young OLD dynamic, aiming for hook ups, it may well be that looks become pretty much 99% of the game, effectively.

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[–]angels-fanWhiny Whiner 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]E-2-buteneProfessional Nice Guy 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]simeneta_twohigh value kween 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]rivetcitymayor 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]LittyKitsuneBesides, I look cute in a tiara 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Standard-LogicNuance 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]LittyKitsuneBesides, I look cute in a tiara 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]boomcheese44 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]simeneta_twohigh value kween 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]simeneta_twohigh value kween 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]ahandtoyourdarknessx 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]angels-fanWhiny Whiner 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]E-2-buteneProfessional Nice Guy 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]angels-fanWhiny Whiner 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]simeneta_twohigh value kween 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]angels-fanWhiny Whiner 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Platinirism2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

They would have to do something that can’t be done by aliens.

Christianity/Islam/Jewish God:
If a truly omnipresent, omnipotent, and omniscient god exists, then it’s not a good or kind god, and I’d have no reason to worship it, this is a very similar concept to an artificial intelligence watching over a simulation of our world. That’s not a “god” in my mind, it’s more like a watcher/keeper.

They would have to preform miracles/magic that science can’t explain, almost like using cheat codes in a game, our world problems fixed with a click of a button. Global warming fixed instantly, radioactive cities cleaned up instantly, plastic in the ocean vanished, baby cancer non-existent, people’s incurable illnesses are cured, etc.

Greek/Viking gods:
Physically and magically powerful people. This is as simple as those people appearing again and showing off their powers. Look at this guy who calls himself Hercules he can pick up 100 tons of steel with no effort. This dude can control the entire ocean to his will.

[–]Chaddamhusein1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]nessaea-bluechrome pill 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]E-2-buteneProfessional Nice Guy 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Zavier221 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ahandtoyourdarknessx 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Bandit174🦝 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]KlashberryHardcore Jaded 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Bandit174🦝 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]KlashberryHardcore Jaded 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mrs_DrgreeWomen Are Right About Islam 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Zavier221 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mrs_DrgreeWomen Are Right About Islam 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]geyges🐇 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]LowCreddittake the infrared pill 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Bandit174🦝 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Zavier221 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mrs_DrgreeWomen Are Right About Islam 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]chilikettlechipsWryYyY 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Slootando 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]E-2-buteneProfessional Nice Guy 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Dulce__CriaturaMy Stacy's Stacy 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]E-2-buteneProfessional Nice Guy 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]chilikettlechipsWryYyY 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ahandtoyourdarknessx 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]LetsDelveIntoIt1Purple Pill Woman 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ahandtoyourdarknessx -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]KlashberryHardcore Jaded 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ahandtoyourdarknessx 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Truth_Sellah_SeekahRadical Black Negus Pill 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]chilikettlechipsWryYyY 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ahandtoyourdarknessx 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]E-2-buteneProfessional Nice Guy 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]angels-fanWhiny Whiner 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]E-2-buteneProfessional Nice Guy 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]xxCrabMasterxx 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]E-2-buteneProfessional Nice Guy 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]purplish_possum 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Slootando 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]AutonateNo Pill 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]E-2-buteneProfessional Nice Guy 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]jacques_laconic2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I agree. But from a music production standpoint I can kind of see both sides.

The simple reality is virtually all recorded music is edited and touched up. From pop to the grimiest most brutal death metal. Whether it's auto-tuned vocals or kick drum sample replacement and quantization to the grid in a metal track. If you're a producer trying to put out the best record you can, you'd be dumb not to use these tools. The issue comes when the artists can't replicate these products in a live setting on even their best days. Then, there's a kind of subterfuge where the recorded product is essentially gaslighting the audience about the artists' level of talent.

The thing is, most audiences can forgive slightly messy performances at times. Everyone has off days. But it's a different story when recorded performances don't represent what the artist is capable of on any level. It's kind of an open secret though that these studio tricks are ubiquitous now, but all in all total deception on the level of like Milli Vanilli is fairly rare. Most recording artists have to be actually talented to even be in that position in the first place.

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[–]WilliamWyattD3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

On OLD, I'd always want pics to be worse than I look in real life.

I fucking hate the idea of that moment where you meet someone and they feel disappointed by how you look.

Like I never understood guys pretending to have bigger dicks than they do. If you are ever gonna use it, she's gonna see it. Do you really want that existentially humiliating moment of seeing disappointment at your size on her face?

I'm a tall (6'3") guy with broad shoulders and big bones, etc. ~20 years ago I hooked up with this fellow teacher at a school in Korea. She was kinda drunk and just kissed me out of nowhere. I'm a serious grower, and when she unzipped she audibly said 'Oh' in a clearly disappointed tone. She expected more given my height and overall size. When she made it grow, there was another audible noise, this time of relief. (She needs to have a bit more self control and class about this.)

But this always stuck with me, imagining how humiliating it would be if the disappointed note had been the only one I heard.

Under promise and over deliver.

[–]SmurfESmurferson2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]KickKathleeenKennedy -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]-passepar2t-I do not think that they will sing to me 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]KlashberryHardcore Jaded -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kaisha001 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]angels-fanWhiny Whiner 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]tiposkBiology made me do it! 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]angels-fanWhiny Whiner 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]tiposkBiology made me do it! 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]firefireburnburn 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]ashpr0ulx 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]CatoftheBanals 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]razormachineBlowjob a day will keep the sidebitch away! 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]neetykeeno 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Sometimes a guy just seems not quite right. I had this discussion with a guy who was thoroughly expecting he was in with a chance after I left my husband. "Why Other Guy and not me?" and I explain dude you're just more intense than I need or want and he's there tilting his head on its side and just not understanding. But hey ..I didn't want that deadly seriousness of his in my life and that's that

My list of guys I know and how suitable they are for me is not strictly based on looks, jobs or status...and never has been. Yeah those things can factor in. But not as much as men think they should. I heavily discouraged some signs of interest from a favoured son of one of the twenty richest families in town who was also a successful lawyer and land developer because there was such a palpable aura of dissolution about him. He hadn't gone off the rails yet he just stank of the potential to Glad I did ..that heroin addiction he developed five years later well I don't want to be round for that sort of thing.

[–]ahandtoyourdarknessx 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]neetykeeno 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]januaryphilosopherBlue Pill Woman 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]gimpgirl555Pick Me -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]throwaway213091345🟪 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]angels-fanWhiny Whiner 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]Willow-girlDairy Queen 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]syxtalyCute Macho Male 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]goneaway2thewind 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]angels-fanWhiny Whiner 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]goneaway2thewind 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]angels-fanWhiny Whiner 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]neetykeeno 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]CatoftheBanals 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]death_by_1000_catsThose aren't for you 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]CatoftheBanals 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]KlashberryHardcore Jaded 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]-passepar2t-I do not think that they will sing to me 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]razormachineBlowjob a day will keep the sidebitch away! 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]sine120Married nerd 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]angels-fanWhiny Whiner 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]sine120Married nerd 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]razormachineBlowjob a day will keep the sidebitch away! 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]sine120Married nerd 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]-passepar2t-I do not think that they will sing to me 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]purplish_possum 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]simeneta_twohigh value kween 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]razormachineBlowjob a day will keep the sidebitch away! 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Slootando 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]angels-fanWhiny Whiner 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]-passepar2t-I do not think that they will sing to me 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]angels-fanWhiny Whiner 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]angels-fanWhiny Whiner 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]E-2-buteneProfessional Nice Guy 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]razormachineBlowjob a day will keep the sidebitch away! 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]angels-fanWhiny Whiner 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Jakes1967 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ahandtoyourdarknessx 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]Bandit174🦝 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]januaryphilosopherBlue Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]ahandtoyourdarknessx 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]januaryphilosopherBlue Pill Woman 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ahandtoyourdarknessx 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]gimpgirl555Pick Me 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]ChadThundagaCockBorderline Personality Wrangler 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (26 children) | Copy Link

[–]angels-fanWhiny Whiner 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]ChadThundagaCockBorderline Personality Wrangler -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]angels-fanWhiny Whiner 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ChadThundagaCockBorderline Personality Wrangler 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Slootando 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]E-2-buteneProfessional Nice Guy 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]simeneta_twohigh value kween 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]343_peaches_and_teaNo Pill 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]IcarusKiki22F 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]343_peaches_and_teaNo Pill 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]simeneta_twohigh value kween 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]angels-fanWhiny Whiner 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ExtraBurdensomeCountWhiteoids bad... m'kay? 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ChadThundagaCockBorderline Personality Wrangler 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ahandtoyourdarknessx 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]KlashberryHardcore Jaded 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]RageAblaze 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]goneaway2thewind 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ChadThundagaCockBorderline Personality Wrangler 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]boomcheese44 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ChadThundagaCockBorderline Personality Wrangler 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Slootando 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ChadThundagaCockBorderline Personality Wrangler 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NotanothrshitthrowNo Pill 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Cant_stop_wont_st0p 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]goneaway2thewind 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NotanothrshitthrowNo Pill 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Slootando -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]throwaway213091345🟪 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]Devourer_of_felines 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]figuringMylife 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]CatoftheBanals 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NotGoingoutofMW 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]KlashberryHardcore Jaded 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]sarkington 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]throwaway213091345🟪 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]sarkington 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]dysonRing 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TooHornyToFap 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]goneaway2thewind 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ChaddamhuseinPost body before calling me an incel 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NotanothrshitthrowNo Pill 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]purplish_possum 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Cant_stop_wont_st0p 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ahandtoyourdarknessx 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]neetykeeno 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ChromaticVengeanceLess Typical Young Millenial 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]goneaway2thewind 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NotanothrshitthrowNo Pill 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]angels-fanWhiny Whiner 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]purplish_possum 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]NotanothrshitthrowNo Pill 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ahandtoyourdarknessx 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]NotanothrshitthrowNo Pill 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]januaryphilosopherBlue Pill Woman 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ahandtoyourdarknessx 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]januaryphilosopherBlue Pill Woman 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]lulll 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ExtraBurdensomeCountWhiteoids bad... m'kay? 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]throwaway213091345🟪 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]-passepar2t-I do not think that they will sing to me 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]sine120Married nerd 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]gimpgirl555Pick Me 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]throwaway213091345🟪 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]geyges🐇 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]OneAngryBlutbadRed For Less Bullshit, Purple Because I’m Still Me 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]chilikettlechipsWryYyY 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]januaryphilosopherBlue Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]razormachineBlowjob a day will keep the sidebitch away! 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]januaryphilosopherBlue Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mrs_DrgreeWomen Are Right About Islam -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]simeneta_twohigh value kween 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]E-2-buteneProfessional Nice Guy 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]chilikettlechipsWryYyY 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]LetsDelveIntoIt1Purple Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]throwaway213091345🟪 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]chilikettlechipsWryYyY -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]throwaway213091345🟪 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]chilikettlechipsWryYyY 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]throwaway213091345🟪 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–][deleted] 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]quabbicooself-identified "hot chick" -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]throwaway213091345🟪 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]razormachineBlowjob a day will keep the sidebitch away! 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]geyges🐇 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]LetsDelveIntoIt1Purple Pill Woman 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]CatchPhrazeMaster Of Memeology 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]LetsDelveIntoIt1Purple Pill Woman 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]E-2-buteneProfessional Nice Guy 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]LetsDelveIntoIt1Purple Pill Woman 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (49 children) | Copy Link

[–]sarkington 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]superincongruent 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]E-2-buteneProfessional Nice Guy 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]Spread-Em-PlzAutistic Kinda Pretty Boy 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]januaryphilosopherBlue Pill Woman 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]E-2-buteneProfessional Nice Guy 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]januaryphilosopherBlue Pill Woman 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]E-2-buteneProfessional Nice Guy 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]januaryphilosopherBlue Pill Woman 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]E-2-buteneProfessional Nice Guy 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]-passepar2t-I do not think that they will sing to me 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]HOLYREGIME 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]E-2-buteneProfessional Nice Guy 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]-passepar2t-I do not think that they will sing to me 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]E-2-buteneProfessional Nice Guy 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]CatchPhrazeMaster Of Memeology 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]E-2-buteneProfessional Nice Guy 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]purplish_possum 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]LetsDelveIntoIt1Purple Pill Woman 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]E-2-buteneProfessional Nice Guy 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Standard-LogicNuance 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Orange_PaisleyNARWHALT 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]rivetcitymayor 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Orange_PaisleyNARWHALT 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]NalkaNalkaGen Z is Gen REEE 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Orange_PaisleyNARWHALT 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]NalkaNalkaGen Z is Gen REEE 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Orange_PaisleyNARWHALT 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]NalkaNalkaGen Z is Gen REEE 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Orange_PaisleyNARWHALT 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Standard-LogicNuance 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]throwaway213091345🟪 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]LetsDelveIntoIt1Purple Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]throwaway213091345🟪 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]LetsDelveIntoIt1Purple Pill Woman -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]throwaway213091345🟪 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]LetsDelveIntoIt1Purple Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]throwaway213091345🟪 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]LetsDelveIntoIt1Purple Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]throwaway213091345🟪 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ruboyuri 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]januaryphilosopherBlue Pill Woman 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]purplish_possum 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]januaryphilosopherBlue Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]LetsDelveIntoIt1Purple Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]LetsDelveIntoIt1Purple Pill Woman -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]redditthrowaway1478💪M/30/Seattle/red/optimistic nihilist 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Novadina 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Would you ask why someone missing arm would wear a t-shirt, but then be offended if people are staring at it?

Women want to look good, but don’t want to be stared at. Cleavage looks good, nothing wrong with wanting to look nice. We shouldn’t have to wear burkas just to keep from getting stared at. Glancing at cleavage is fine, it’s the staring that is uncomfortable, this is just basic social tact. Getting stared at makes most people uncomfortable, it’s not just women who don’t like it.

Also, I know for me men stared at my boobs even if material was covering the cleavage area, so covering it wasn’t even an effective method to stop men staring at it. So my answer would be I show it because it looks good, and not showing skin doesn’t prevent staring anyway so why bother trying to hide it.

[–]superincongruent 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]redditthrowaway1478💪M/30/Seattle/red/optimistic nihilist -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]superincongruent 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThisBoringLife 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]purplish_possum 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]sarkington 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]throwaway213091345🟪 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]purplish_possum 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThisBoringLife 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]purplish_possum 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ThisBoringLife 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]simeneta_twohigh value kween -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]xxCrabMasterxx 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]simeneta_twohigh value kween 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]xxCrabMasterxx 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]KlashberryHardcore Jaded 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]throwaway213091345🟪 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]-passepar2t-I do not think that they will sing to me 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]rivetcitymayor 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Orange_PaisleyNARWHALT 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]simeneta_twohigh value kween 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThisBoringLife 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]LetsDelveIntoIt1Purple Pill Woman 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]simeneta_twohigh value kween 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]LetsDelveIntoIt1Purple Pill Woman 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]simeneta_twohigh value kween 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]-passepar2t-I do not think that they will sing to me 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]E-2-buteneProfessional Nice Guy 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]LetsDelveIntoIt1Purple Pill Woman 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]HOLYREGIME 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (34 children) | Copy Link

[–]januaryphilosopherBlue Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]TooHornyToFap 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]AclopolipseNo Pill 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TooHornyToFap 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]CatchPhrazeMaster Of Memeology 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]redditthrowaway1478💪M/30/Seattle/red/optimistic nihilist 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]CatchPhrazeMaster Of Memeology 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]dysonRing 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AutonateNo Pill 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]CatchPhrazeMaster Of Memeology 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]AutonateNo Pill 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]CatchPhrazeMaster Of Memeology 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]HOLYREGIME 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]KlashberryHardcore Jaded 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]HOLYREGIME 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]redditthrowaway1478💪M/30/Seattle/red/optimistic nihilist 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]KlashberryHardcore Jaded 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]CatchPhrazeMaster Of Memeology -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]sine120Married nerd 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]CatchPhrazeMaster Of Memeology -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]xxCrabMasterxx 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]BrundleKitten -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]xxCrabMasterxx 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]BrundleKitten 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mysterious_Detail_62 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]BrundleKitten 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]KlashberryHardcore Jaded 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]hardfine 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Slootando 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NarniaFox -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThisBoringLife 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]NarniaFox 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThisBoringLife 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]NarniaFox 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Spread-Em-PlzAutistic Kinda Pretty Boy 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]gimpgirl555Pick Me 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]PlatinirismBlackpill 12 points13 points14 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]xxCrabMasterxx 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NotanothrshitthrowNo Pill 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ChaddamhuseinPost body before calling me an incel 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Spread-Em-PlzAutistic Kinda Pretty Boy 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]goneaway2thewind 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NotanothrshitthrowNo Pill 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Spread-Em-PlzAutistic Kinda Pretty Boy 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]lulll 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]nikki1810 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]lulll 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NotanothrshitthrowNo Pill 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]lulll -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThisBoringLife 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NotanothrshitthrowNo Pill 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]lulll 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]NotanothrshitthrowNo Pill 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]lulll 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]NotanothrshitthrowNo Pill 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

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[–]chilikettlechipsWryYyY 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NotanothrshitthrowNo Pill 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]CatoftheBanals 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]BrundleKitten 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]NotanothrshitthrowNo Pill 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]CatchPhrazeMaster Of Memeology 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]CatoftheBanals 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NotanothrshitthrowNo Pill 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]BrundleKitten 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MasterTeacher123 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]ChromaticVengeanceLess Typical Young Millenial 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Orange_PaisleyNARWHALT 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ThisBoringLife 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]philomexaTHE HEART OF MAN IS THE CRUSHED HORSE'S TAIL 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]purplish_possum 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]sine120Married nerd 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AtaCome7821"Miraculous! Simply the best!" 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]KlashberryHardcore Jaded 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ChromaticVengeanceLess Typical Young Millenial 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]goneaway2thewind 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ashpr0ulx 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]sine120Married nerd 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NotanothrshitthrowNo Pill -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ashpr0ulx 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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It's behind a paywall right now:

https://www.dagensjuridik.se/nyheter/processratt/hd-provar-mal-om-oaktsam-valdtakt-underinstanserna-oense/

Here's a summary of the case:

During Valborg last year, a young woman contacted her 23-year-old boyfriend and asked him to come to her home. The couple then had voluntary sex, and the man was convicted of unintentionally negligent rape, writes Dagens Juridik. Now HD will try the case.

After the voluntary intercourse, the woman gave her boyfriend oral sex. However, she did it so as not to make him "angry or sad" and not because she really wanted to, which is why she was actually raped when there was no formal consent before each new episode. The "new moment" was that she gave her boyfriend oral sex.

In the district court, the woman stated that she "played along" to get the intercourse over.

A month later, the woman met the man at a new sex date and was then raped again. That time, the boyfriend tried to "penetrate her vaginally" when they had sex. According to the prosecutor, this also constituted a "new element" which should rightly have been preceded by a formal consent.

The district court acquitted the man, but the court of appeal, which in the absence of evidence assumed that the woman's description of the course of events was the correct one, convicted the man of negligent rape.

Admittedly, the boyfriend did not understand that he was negligent, the Court of Appeal reasoned, but when he took the initiative for oral sex, "the lack of response from the plaintiff has given him reason to think" about whether there was a genuinely grounded consent.

The guy gets a rape conviction and has to pay the woman €9k.

Here's a similar case:

The woman brought sex toys to a sex date with a man. The next morning they had sex without the woman explicitly saying yes. The woman's friend got her to report the incident to the police and now the woman receives SEK 85,000 in damages from the man, who is convicted of "negligent rape" for the voluntary intercourse.

According to the new so-called consent law, a man must be convicted of rape if, for example, he has sex with his wife or girlfriend without first explicitly declaring that she wants sex.

The now convicted 29-year-old had gotten to know the woman via the dating app Badoo and they had previously met and had sex several times. On July 7, 2019, she visited the man in Uppsala after it was decided that she would sleep over with him and that they would have sex.

The woman had a bag with sex toys with her and they had sex several times.

The next morning they had sex again. Both agree that they then watched train and bus times together before the woman's return, that "the atmosphere was as before" and that they did not disagree.

The next day, the woman told a friend about the sex date, who explained to her that it was all "not okay" and urged her to report the man to the police for rape. Then the police struck.

She was just as usual after intercourse. I was therefore very shocked when the police came and knocked on the door in the middle of the night, the 29-year-old told in interrogation.

However, the prosecutor considered that the whole thing was a rape because the woman "due to sleep / newly awakened condition did not have the opportunity to freely take a position on participation in the sexual act".

The woman states that the night before she went to bed, she took a tablet of melatonin, which helps her fall asleep and sleep. She woke up in the morning and felt the man pull on her hip so that she ended up, from a side position facing the wall, to lying on her back in bed. He took off her clothes and they then had intercourse for 5-10 minutes. The woman explained that she did not tell the man that she did not want sex again because she was in a "state of frozen fright".

And this is why everyone who's not stupid goes to Germany and pays for it.

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The vast majority of female homicide is due to DV. When it comes to domestic violence:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1854883/

Results. Almost 24% of all relationships had some violence, and half (49.7%) of those were reciprocally violent. In nonreciprocally violent relationships, women were the perpetrators in more than 70% of the cases. Reciprocity was associated with more frequent violence among women (adjusted odds ratio [AOR]=2.3; 95% confidence interval [CI]=1.9, 2.8), but not men (AOR=1.26; 95% CI=0.9, 1.7). Regarding injury, men were more likely to inflict injury than were women (AOR=1.3; 95% CI=1.1, 1.5), and reciprocal intimate partner violence was associated with greater injury than was nonreciprocal intimate partner violence regardless of the gender of the perpetrator (AOR=4.4; 95% CI=3.6, 5.5).

It's mostly abusers abusing other abusers. The women are hardly innocent in all this. Sometimes things go too far and the women kill the men, or vice versa. Pregnancy just exacerbates this phenomenon due to hormones and added stress (of both parties).

Bottom line is that none of this is random. It's not like getting in a car accident or having a stroke at 20. Don't stay with abusive partners and you won't get killed by one.

[–]SmurfESmurferson2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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I'm so sorry to hear that. Your life clearly hasn't been all roses.

And yeah, men are dangerous. This is part of why a casual hook up culture where sexual attraction becomes the increasingly most important criterion for pairing up is problematic. Especially as everything becomes more individualized. There is something to be said to having friends and family involved in vetting mating decisions. Of course, the friends and family also have to be configured right for this to work. But these days, everything seems fucked up.

But my general advice for anyone who thinks they are serious about a person is to introduce them to friends and family quickly. And then take the advice of friends and family seriously.

As for creepy, I totally get that. The manosphere has some decent points about 'creepy' being overused, but they don't really get it either. Besides, women are people and you can't expect perfection. So it makes sense that they'd use creepy a bit too liberally.

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What is your definition if a mail order bride? My plan is to go to another country and live there, not necessarily bring them back to the USA, especially since I'm fine with visiting my family 1 time per year just during the holidays.

The point of going to another country is to go somewhere that I would do better at dating people I want to date, so why would another western country be better? Europe is also similarly expensive so there's really no point going there if I can remote work in a cheap country and get payed with a good wage. Only western country I'd consider is Portugal because they have a digital nomad program.

Exploit has a connotation that I'm giving nothing in return and unfairly treating them, when obviously that's not the case since I'm providing stability and dating as I would like to in the west with a more relationship-minded culture

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[–]Standard-Logic2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I just used your initial source. You should recognize that. And you're still gerrymandering the data. Conservatism has always trended with family values, as marriage is a conservative institution. You can reject and cherrypick all the data you want, it's of little import to me.

And my worldview? Look back at all my comments. I'm merely rejecting the use of your data and you incorrectly defining conservative states as more welfare-dependent and higher in single motherhood. I never said conservative states were better than liberal states. To infer my position as biased when you're asserting that liberal states are better and that certain liberal states are conservative when you don't even live in America gives me a hearty chuckle.

And regarding your argument on methamphetamine salts, the entirety was incorrect. You were asserting that people more largely used such substances before, when prescriptions are higher today.

Further, I didn't elicit a position on abortions, how could you disagree with me? You were disagreeing with the possibility that someone could define a fetus as a life and be appalled at their daughter killing said life. That isn't disagreeing with the view they have on abortion. That is an inability to even entertain that view as a possibility. I personally guarantee I could argue the pro-choice position better than you.

[–]NarniaFox1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Standard-Logic2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I can argue that your data doesn't show the full picture, which it doesn't and what I have been doing. Abortions are higher in liberal states. Divorces are higher in conservative states. Family support is higher in conservative states. The situation isn't a binary. Do an analysis on percent conservatism by the demographics voting tendency and actually get some meaningful data. Asserting top x are conservative or bottom x are conservative means nothing because it's, as mentioned, gerrymandering. It's is a bad faith way of asserting a position.

My issue is that all of your arguments take a sliver of information out of context to frame the issue in a way that supports your ideology. I've seen this occur numerous time with feminism, with single-motherhood, with promiscuity, with liberalism. When the data does not support your argument, you appeal to emotion and freedom of choice. When some amount of data does support your argument, you argue the data, but only on data that supports your position and refuse to acknowledge that your data isn't holistic, which is what you're doing here. I find this bad faith technique to be manipulative and basically lying.

[–]NarniaFox1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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What are you even saying? I'm not arguing about the number of kids, merely about the states and where they rank, just as you are.

As an example, looking at the states with the lowest percent single mothers, you'll find they are mostly conservative. You could say "It seems that there are fewer single mothers in more conservative states."

That would still be incorrect, just as your assertion is. These statements both imply if you take a state, and, only knowing its relative conservatism, you could guess that there would be more single mothers (in your case) or fewer single mothers (in the other case) as a percent of mothers. Both are untrue, conservatism clearly is non-predictive as both the highest and the lowest states in single motherhood are conservative. Frankly, I can't tell if this is a language issue at this point or you're being obstinate.

[–]NarniaFox1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Mark_Freed1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

The reason I comment so often on your posts is because 9/10 times they are specious claims that are bad faith and ideologically slanted.

damn that is harsh... I never thought Narnia was like that. I liked your comments and her comments.

It just goes to show how easy it is to sound authoritative. Someone links studies, quotes stats and sounds intelligent you take it for granted that they looked into it. You don't have enough time to go and really dig deep into their claims. We take so much on faith.

Not saying I support you or Narnia here but just this exhange made me think of all these "facts" I read here and there and blindly believed. It would take a lot of effort to track down the original survey, if it is outdates, if the interpretations are biased, incorrect.

People who do bad science face a lot of anger from me, damaging the credibility of studies themselves.

[–]Standard-Logic2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yes, we're all biased. I'm biased, for sure. And yes I'm harsh.

To be clear, I'm not really annoyed so much at the use of data that supports the position, but really the ability to, on a dime, pivot away from data and appeal to emotion.

Take promiscuity, for example. In the past, I've asserted that sex before marriage is one of the most controllable and largest predictor of infidelity. 1.13 odds ratio per sexual partner. 10% chance with 2 partners, 50% chance with 20. Virgin marriages have the greatest happiness, lowest divorce, lowest infidelity. Easy decision, right?

When presented with this data, instead of data refuting my point, I'll get an argument of "well people should be allowed to do what they want." Even though all data suggests it's a bad choice.

I just don't appreciate ideological arguments that alternate between data (or snapshots of certain data) and emotions depending on what supports that ideology.

[–]Mark_Freed2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

emotions depending on what supports that ideology

I think it is all emotion. It just seems like people are alternating. Often people already know what conclusion they want to hear or support. Now it is just a matter of how to argue, you can appeal to emotions, authority, data, whatever works.

It is a form of directed reasoning. The goal is set with emotions and logic is only used to decide how best to achieve the goal. I think most people do this and are unaware. Only in issues that we genuinely don't care about the outcome can we go searching with curiosity for the true answer maintaining clinical detachment.

Hmmm, I guess it also helps if the goal is the right one. If people genuinely cared about outcomes - less crime, healthier happier relationships then they would be open to the way that worked. Any way that worked best.

But we humans have to balance multiple goals, we have so many tradeoffs to consider. Even if virgin marriages help with infidelity, to what extent? can we deal with it in some other way? what are the consequences of not having any experience before marriage on partner choice. We end up trying to oversimplify these things because our language is limited.

Every event has so many causes and consequences... it is crazy how complicated life is.

[–]figuringMylife1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Standard-Logic2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]figuringMylife1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

The first study:

“Although many of the predictor variables replicated results from previous studies (e.g., demographic variables, religiosity, sexual experience), findings also indicated that childhood sexual abuse (i.e., forced sex) predicted greater probability of infidelity.”

It also is more of a study surrounding the likelihood of women lying between a face to face vs computer interview.

Also, the second study doesn’t have any sources? But when I delved deeper I found there wasn’t a strong correlation that n count is the main driver. Other things such as trauma, religion, etc play a bigger part.

I’m not saying you’re wrong, but I think the research behind this is typically flawed and up to hoping humans are being honest. I think people with higher n counts are typically also more likely to be honest about things like infidelity. Especially since there’s a running joke of pedophilia and cheating within religious society, I think there are a lot of things just kept under wraps. Like even think of the age old joke of religious women taking it up the butt instead of losing their virginity PIV

I grew up casually going to church and the things my religious friends vs my socially open friends are ok with talking about vs what they’ve done are honestly surprising even to me.

https://gss.norc.org/Documents/reports/methodological-reports/MR065%20A%20Methodological%20Analysis%20of%20the%20Sexual%20Behavior%20Questions%20on%20the%20GSS.pdf

[–]Standard-Logic2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

The first study utilized two different methodologies of collecting data for the reasons you mentioned: to see if there's a tendency to lie in either, so that the researchers could be more assured of their data. The fact that there was a stronger infidelity correlation, but still existent, using the face-to-face amongst data compared to recordings refutes any claim that the sole reason is due to more honesty from more sociosexual women.

The study was for finding infidelity risks. Here's the excerpt for infidelity.

In illustration of this, the odds ratio of 1.13 for lifetime sexual partners obtained with the face-to-face mode of interview indicates that the probability of infidelity increased by 13% for every additional lifetime sexual partner, whereas the odds ratio of 5.16 for premarital cohabitation obtained with the face-to-face mode of interview indicates that the probability of infidelity was 5.16 times more likely for those who cohabited relative to those who did not cohabit.

As you can see, cohabitation is also a cofactor. I don't have the other survey.

To be clear, one of the main underlying influences is sociosexuality. It is an innate tendency of someone to be more comfortable engaging in non-monogamous sex. We're just using past partners as an indicator of sociosexuality. There are obvious exceptions, but individuals that are more geared towards monogamy will avoid casual sex, while those not geared towards monogamy will have more casual sex. The genetic link is pretty well established.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociosexual_orientation

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10743879/

http://dx.doi.org/10.1177/0265407505052440

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmid/21675178/citedby/?tool=pubmed

Regardless, it's very clear that if one is willing to impulsively engage in sex with more people (have more casual sex), it'll be harder for them to maintain exclusivity throughout a marriage. It's practically common sense. There's a reason many guys have a visceral disgust towards committing to promiscuous women. It's a biological reaction for men to avoid risking paternity fraud.

[–]figuringMylife1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Standard-Logic3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

why do you think things are the way they are in our current western society?

A few reasons.

Impatience. Life is getting easier and easier, and, as such, humans are not only searching for a way to feel alive but also becoming increasingly unable to delay gratification. And, sex is pleasurable.
Technology. The invention of the birth control pill and more widespread abortion made sex easier and less costly to give and attain.
Competition. In order to secure a relationship, women can undercut the market by offering sex earlier to secure a higher quality man. When every woman starts doing this, women who desire to wait until marriage or a relationship get outcompeted and remain single. Only a higher quality women can say "I'm not having sex until marriage", because they're the ones who can do so without the man leaving and saying "I'll find someone who will have sex with me."
Lack of religion. Whether or not it is valid, religion teaches young people a moral code to follow before they have the maturity to contemplate the repercussions. Without religion, what greater power is stopping young people from having sex?
Validation. Teenagers are insecure. Sex shows that other people like you. Only the most attractive men and women can afford to not pursue sex, but then again, why would they?

In the end, sex is biologically driven and marriage is a societal invention. It's impossible to expect humans to place a societal crafted benefit over a biological benefit without serious efforts in socialization, and our society is trying its hardest to promote a new breed of socialization: sexual liberation.

[–]Mark_Freed1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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Title	Daily Community Chat Megathread
Author	AutoModerator
Upvotes	13
Comments	961
Date	January 17, 2022 2:00 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/s5ry95/daily_community_chat_megathread/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/daily-community-chat-megathread.1097132 https://theredarchive.com/post/1097132

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