N-Count Megathread | PurplePillDebate

AutoModerator · 2021-01-10T21:00:18+00:00

This sticky is to semi-relevant hot topics that may change from week to week. We have received numerous complaints that there are too many N-count threads, so...

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[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

No one said happily ever after. Lots of people are unhappy these days. And yes, high N people are more likely to cheat, all the copy pasta studies here show the correlation.

All I’m saying is a couple of you guys keep saying that high N men will never commit to high N woman and that is simply not the case. However those men may not have the best RMV. But that’s mostly attributed to high SMV women that are also mentally unstable, affecting their RMV. The point is for myself and any other slut I know we have never had issues getting commitment from high N men. However they may have some issues of their own such as alcoholism or being too alpha and disagreeable that it has hindered some of their options for provider like success.

High N sluts choose for beta bux because they are lazy and don’t want to work, Or made poor financial decisions in life, or maybe straddled down with a couple of kids which cost money to raise. They choose the stable man with less sexual appeal, or are forced into it. High N attractive women w their own money still have plenty of access to sexually appealing men.

Once you get into your 30s Jim, the world changes and there are men who were alpha fux studs in their 20s who never made the bux, and aged out of being able to fuck 20 year olds regularly or wanted a relationship. The prized virgin who plans to be a SAHM mom and values keeping up with the Joneses isn’t going to marry a washed up former musician who now works in retail but is still hot enough and sexually appealing enough to attract women who aren’t looking for that lifestyle or not relationship stable enough to get with the successful alpha bux.

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]moneygang4life 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Willow-girlLivin' the dream! No really, I am ... 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Willow-girlLivin' the dream! No really, I am ... 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Willow-girlLivin' the dream! No really, I am ... 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Kim Kardashian got famous because she had sex on video and her mom leaked it. That’s why she’s called a slut, but it’s honesty way more disturbing and borderline incestuous than your average slutty behavior

As for the rest of them, are you really asking whether young, beautiful, rich young women - filled to the brim with hormones, like all young adults - who are sheltered (by virtue of not only their money and status, but literal teams of people who are tasked with keeping their reputations pristine) from the consequences of promiscuous ... are taking advantage of this and being promiscuous?

Of course they are

This exact same question was asked in the late-90s/early-00s, when that whole virginity ring thing was big. Turns out, every single celeb who had one ended up admitting that they were sexually active

[–]MasterTeacher123 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]MasterTeacher123 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]PickleLineSimp for Low N-Count women -1 points0 points1 point 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

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Lol, because guys in high school have put in “years” of effort. No, they are naturally outgoing and astute enough to disregard blue pill conditioning and know that getting the girls plastered on booze they stole from their parents and pulling their pigtails instead of bowing w their fedora....fucking works. It doesn’t take that much skill unless the guy has a strongly inhibited and timid nature. 50-60% of people are extraño, and men tend to be less inhibited and more disagreeable.

So for those small amount of men who haven’t resigned as incels, how exactly is the work they’ve put in to get laid going to not affect their ability to pair bond? If anything, I’d imagine they’d even be more affected and less able to bond because of the resentment in the amount of work they had to do to get to where they were compared to other more successful men and women.

I personally think that the n count and pair bond correlation is not causative due to count, and weak in general so this is just a thought experiment to ponder on.

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Evolutionarily it’s more advantage if a man sticks around for at least the first seven or so years of a kids life. Human babies are very fragile and need constant care. This is why caveman had such a high mortality rate. Experts say that if you could make it till age 14 or so chances are you would have died in your 60s of old age if you weren’t killed by a sabertooth tiger, murder, or some other type of accident.

For women the ability to not pair bond is also advantageous. Men were way more likely to get killed during the hunt or by other invading men. Hence the concept of war brides. If a woman was too emotionally widowed then her drive to continue to reproduce would be affected. Or if she couldn’t adapt to her new caveman rapist overlord and lose the will to live and care for her children that would also be evolutionarily disadvantage.

It’s evopsych babble but it makes some sense. The war brides concept Is given clearance because I think Rollo wrote about it but the reason for men to stick around and invest to ensure their offspring has the best chance of survival really isn’t. Most guys here assume that the man’s biological imperative his two roam the land spreading his seed far and wide then ducking onto the next woman. That actually makes a lot less sense considering humans are social and form groups for survival. Hence a lone male rapist would always be perceived as a threat and killed or driven out. Even male humans are social but that is forgotten about a these modern day shut ins

[–]ithinkoutloudtooNo Pill 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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Statitistics

[1.1] https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/htfg3o/updated_excerpts_relating_promiscuity/[1.1.2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_promiscuity#Psychology [1.1.3] https://ifstudies.org/blog/counterintuitive-trends-in-the-link-between-premarital-sex-and-marital-stability [1.1.4] https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/i7ns85/do_rp_men_want_marriageltrs_or_ons_pick_one_fellas/g13y9vo/ [1.2.a] https://www.bustle.com/p/millennial-women-are-cheating-more-than-millennial-men-a-new-survey-finds-7873841 [1.2.b] https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jan/11/millennial-women-have-higher-rates-infidelity-mill/ [#] https://archive.is/uTrZd [#]https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4161927/

Stories & all

[a] http://archive.is/WOb4c [b] http://archive.is/pJKMm

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High N woman here.

9in is very rare
Men’s dicks look different based On their build so it’s really hard to gauge size. A short lean guy with a slightly above average dick looks huge compared to a tall guy with a little bit of belly fat and an average size. Women really can’t tell unless it’s significantly smaller than average.
Lots of men Have terrible health due to a bad diet and too much porn and don’t even get enough blood flow to get all the way hard as well. So that also can create the illusion that a penis is smaller
Only an asshole person belittles someone about aspects of their genitals they cannot control. It has nothing to do with N count. I would never tell a man to his face that his dick wasn’t big enough because I know that’s a super low blow.

That being said I love a big dick and also a nice average dick on a lean athletic body.

The absolute best thing that all and any man can do is to lift and do some type of interval training to get as lean and ripped as possible. With a nice body even an average size cock looks good.

[–]mintylove0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago [recovered] (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Slyfer_SevenOne Awesome Man 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]decoy88Men and Women are similar 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Slyfer_SevenOne Awesome Man 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]thelajesticBlue Pill Woman[🍰] 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]PickleLineSimp for Low N-Count women 6 points7 points8 points 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

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[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]ChibsFilipTelforddMen should not date virgins 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MurphysmongooseRP reality checked 7 points8 points9 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]ChibsFilipTelforddMen should not date virgins 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]decoy88Men and Women are similar 3 points4 points5 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ChibsFilipTelforddMen should not date virgins 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]decoy88Men and Women are similar 0 points1 point2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Aldabruzzo 4 points5 points6 points 5 years ago* (20 children) | Copy Link

Goddamn. People are still talking about this....

N matters to men, even if they say it doesnt.

N matters to women only to the extent that he's not a virgin and other women want to fuck him.

N does not affect "pair bonding" in women, it just affects her ability to get attractive men to commit. High N women usually put out slut tells (no i am not going to list them out for you).

N affects women more emotionally and ~~physically~~ mentally than it does men. Not fair, but that's how it works.

The higher a woman's N, the more likely she is to divorce and the less likely she is to be attracted to the guy she eventually marries.

N doesn't seem to matter much at all for a woman's sexual and marriage prospects if she is white, middle class on up, has a 4 year degree, is employed full time, and lives in a major metropolitan area.

Most of the time, a woman's high N is a symptom, not a cause, of her emotional/mental problems.

There. We can close the thread now.....

/s

[–]SmurfESmurfersonStacy’s Post-Wall Mom 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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Not really. In their own words:

Women who’ve only slept with their spouses are, at 65%, most likely to report very happy marriages. Thereafter, there’s a decline that’s statistically-significant but modest in magnitude. The lowest odds of marital happiness, 52% in the baseline model, accord to women who’ve had six-to-10 lifetime sexual partners. Women who’ve had 11 or more lovers are a bit more likely to report happy marriages at 57 percent.

As for women, men who report only one sexual partner in their lifetime are more likely to report very happy marriages. The benefits of one partner are slightly greater for men than for women: according to the baseline results, 71% of men with one partner are very happy in their relationship. This drops to 65% for men who report two or more sex partners. The happiness penalty for additional partners is modest, only a few percentage points.

They say the effects of more partners on both men and women are modest, and suggest the highest benefit is gained by men who have only one lifetime partner.

Men here constantly claim that sleeping around as a man has no effect on them in their future marriages, and that’s not true according to the results from the exact same institute they use to claim women having sex ruins them for marriage.

Either you agree with the IFS’s results, or you don’t, but don’t cherry pick.

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The graph and tables are what I’m looking at, and I’m not the one ignoring the data shown in it, considering you’re the one insisting we should ignore the men’s single-partner data point. You don’t get to throw out data to make claims.

And the best fit slope lines really are nowhere near so different as you suggest— I can see the data too, and no it isn’t men’s flat, women deeply negative. Mostly, the women’s curve is pulled down by the 6-10 partner low-point, which the researchers themselves said they don’t understand.

But anyways, comparing the slopes for men and women don’t matter at all to what I’m saying. The slope is still negative overall for men, and the data very clearly indicates that men are significantly more likely to be happy with their wife as their only partner. This completely contradicts the “men are unaffected by sleeping around with 1000 women, while women are irreparably damaged and worthless if they have more than one partner” narrative so prevalent here.

The graph does speak volumes: it says that men are significantly less happy in marriage if they don’t marry the first woman they fuck, and fucking more and more women after that doesn’t improve their happiness in marriage at all.

[–]SeemedGoodRed Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 5 years ago* (10 children) | Copy Link

I never suggested that there was not a significant change for men from one partner to multiple, there is - though it is still less significant than the drop off for women.

But unlike for women, there doesn’t appear to be much of a relationship after one partner for men, if any. Whereas for women, the best fit line after the one partner drop off shows a clear relationship between n-count and continued declines in marital satisfaction.

The graph does speak volumes: it says that men are significantly less happy in marriage if they don’t marry the first woman they fuck, and fucking more and more women after that doesn’t improve their happiness in marriage at all.

...whereas women are even less satisfied in marriage after n=1 and additional partners seems to make them even less satisfied.

That last bit is an important difference which you are choosing to ignore. The authors ignored it because they have a clear agenda to suggest that neither men nor women should have any premarital sex at all. Why are you?

[–]badgersoniceWoman -cing the Stone 2 points3 points4 points 5 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

I am not ignoring it— I disagree that the slopes after one partner match your description at all. If you insist that ignoring the first point is the important metric of value (which is actually just cherry-picking data, and a poor analysis in general), then both slopes after 1 partner are negative, and their slopes are not actually dramatically different, unless, as you are likely doing, you either ignore the tail 2 points for women or heavily overweight the 6-10 partners point in your eyeball, bias-backed partial linear fit. I’ve drawn a lot of linear fits over my career: your descriptions are just not representing this plot accurately. At most, there is a very mild difference in apparent slopes, but it doesn’t look like enough to claim a dramatic effect for women and no effect for men to me. The fact that female marital satisfaction increases significantly from 6-10 partners to having 11-20 and 21+ changes the overall estimated slope of the early curve to be only mildly negative. You don’t get to underweight those points simply to create a picture of a dramatic drop off in marital satisfaction for women.

I will also point out that it’s incorrect to try to draw concrete conclusions about relative slopes based on a plot like this, because the slopes are mathematically poorly defined, due to the variable bucket size they’ve plotted. Your entire argument is developed based on claiming the total approximate slope for men (ignoring the first point) is less steep than for women. Okay, well, tell me what those slopes are in real units. You can’t, because their data presented, in tables and in the chart do not allow you to extract the percent change / change in # of partners. Realistically, if you stretched out the # of partners scale to be evenly distributed, the actual slopes would be almost certainly different than shown here.

With the data they’ve shown, you can really only vaguely do very softly qualitative comparison at best (does it go down or go up; is it extremely steep or very shallow). But the slopes I see? There’s nothing dramatically different, and it’s inaccurate to paint the male slope as totally flat: it’s not. The authors claim the male changes are not statistically significant after one partner, and that’s the strongest claim you can make... but then also claim the male and female results are extremely similar. None of this leads to the conclusion you're trying to shape here.

And finally, the comparison of exact details for men vs women was not ever my point at all— I have not once denied that having multiple premarital sex partners is correlated with divorce and decreased likelihood of marital happiness for women. I am merely posting this to contradict the dumb binary narrative that the N-count whiners here make: that N-count only matters for women and never for men.

Not everything has to be about proving “men are better than women” or whatever your schtick here is, you know.

The authors ignored it because they have a clear agenda

... as do all the men here using the IFS studies to claim women are deeply damaged by premarital sex while men are benefitted. This narrative is false, and disproven by their own choice of source. It is intellectually dishonest cherry picking to selectively ignore their data based on their agenda, but proselytize the data points that agree with your views.

[–] SeemedGood Red Pill Man 1 point 2 points 3 points 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

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[–] SeemedGood Red Pill Man 1 point 2 points 3 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–] badgersonice Woman -cing the Stone 1 point 2 points 3 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

so you should stop suggesting that n-count matters the same for women that it does for men based on the one data point (n>1 drop)

That is not what I said-- I asked for quotes, and instead you're being dishonest. Pity. This is not a fair summary of what I have said. At all. I have said that the N=1 point does still matter, and it is wrong of you to throw it out to make the plot fit your narrative. If you can throw out the N=1 point for no reason, then anyone can throw out the N=6-10 point with exactly as much justification... and suddenly, the picture changes quite a bit.

This is why cherry picking data is BAD and you shouldn't do it-- dropping some data because it doesn't suit your narrative is a form of lying.

while ignoring the fact that the data appears to also show that beyond the n>1 drop there appears to be a significantly negative correlation for women and not for men.

This is incredibly disingenuous: I have not ignored it, and I have explained that I disagree with your interpretation. Disagreement isn't "ignoring". As I have already explained to you, and you ignored (of course), you are simply incorrect in your estimation of the slopes of that one graph. The slopes, (yes, when ignoring the N=1 point as you incorrectly insist on doing), are not identical but are very similar, to as well as I can tell... even though, as I also explained, the relative slopes are also still a poor measure of what you're claiming, because the slopes are not well-defined.

It is vastly too strong a statement to claim, as you have, that there is a "significantly negative correlation for women and not for men" based on this graph. At most, you could claim the ill-defined slopes on the bad graph are maybe slightly different when you ignore the first data point. But the dramatic difference you claim, even when ignoring the data point you insist on ignoring? I don't see it at all, unless you systematically are also ignoring additional points to make your fit.

But I am now quite sure you've just got some weird axe to grind here, since you're making up that I've ignored the slopes, when I've discussed it in the comments for anyone to see. At this point, you're just arguing with your own junk, made-up straw-figures and grinding your axe.

Take it up with the IFS themselves next time instead of putting words in my mouth. If someone takes their word as gospel for the divorce study, then it's obviously pretty self-serving to suddenly throw out data, exaggerate partial estimated (and undefinable) slopes, and suddenly worry about IFS's agenda the moment IFS says something that doesn't suit their personal agenda.

[–] SeemedGood Red Pill Man 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–] badgersonice Woman -cing the Stone 1 point 2 points 3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I most certainly understand that you “disagree” based on hand-waving.

SIgh, nothing you’ve said is anything more than handwaving either... and that is the case because the raw data is not presented, and the plots present an ill-defined slopes (because of variable binning) anyways.

Your feelings about what the slopes look like are not the objective facts you think they are. They are simply judgement calls, and only just as valid as mine. However, I have also addressed other issues with your interpretation, which you have failed to answer, instead just lobbing lies about my position and the words I’ve said repeatedly.

I really don’t care about your agenda or whatever you think mine is. You are every bit as free as you want to restrict your marriages to virgins: nobody cares.

It is hilarious to me to watch guys here worry about the IFS agenda only when it suggests something they don’t want to hear about men.

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Why are you people so obsessed with stereotypical looks? I don't feel threatened by women or men who look like models and don't make assumptions about their personalities or how they'd view me based on their looks. Maybe break out of the box a little. Also realise that people can take 1 photo of themselves that makes them look way more extreme than if you were face to face. Twisting, contorting, lighting and taking 206 snaps to get one. She's very pretty but you'd find that she's a lot less curvy in reality and her face could look totally different on the other side or frontal photo. And people are just humans even if they looked "perfect", they're not a different species. It's like people are living in high school forever.

One of my friends is a model. She's an international model. She's on all the big brands, billboards, everything. She's quite insecure about her body because of all the focus on it, and she's quite a "tom boy" and doesn't have any interest in getting dolled up in her spare time. She doesn't want to date other models and is quite a depressed person.

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[–]Grand_DutyMorgan Wallen Memes + Canadian that cried when Trump lost 19 points20 points21 points 5 years ago* (22 children) | Copy Link

If you want a long happy marriage like Jimmy Carter you better avoid high n women. High n women cheat, dead bedroom, and divorce their husbands like crazy. 70% of women cheat and then divorce hubbies.

52% of the 9,000 women surveyed said they began looking to cheat less than 12 months after the big day.

Sexologist Dr Juliette Buffat said the come down after a wedding can strain a relationship: "After the dream of getting married came true, what's left? Memories, photo albums, fatigue and sometimes disappointment."

"Men are not the only ones to get bored in a routine, women can also feel the urge to escape the marital monotony and monogamy."

https://m.independent.ie/style/sex-relationships/newlywed-brides-seek-affairs-within-first-year-of-marriage-to-cope-with-post-wedding-blues-31559892.html

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I haven’t had one partner in my 25 years of fucking who had an STD, gave one to me

This is difficult to believe. I am not asking you to share personal information (nor accusing you of dishonesty, for that matter), but statistically it is very unlikely that a sexually-active woman with multiple partners hasn't received HPV, at least.

It's interesting, one of my proto-redpill experiences took place when I was a medical student on an OBGY rotation. Me and another student were in the colposcopy clinic, and this young (~20), attractive blonde chick came in. Looked unassuming, nothing obviously slutty about her, to my mind at the time.

The nurse opened her vagina with the speculum to reveal a cavernous colony of huge, densely-scattered HPV warts.

I learned something that day.

The funny thing is I couldn't even really share all of what I was thinking with the other med student because he was gay and likely wouldn't have understood.

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All of my paps have come back normal

I do believe you, although strictly speaking you can have had an HPV strain and have had normal Paps.

I don’t lump HPV in with STDs

Indeed, many or most people don't, which is part of my point, as I consider that to be insane.

In fact I was half hoping you would say this so that I could make the point that, when people say "I don't consider HPV to be an STI", they are in my view employing a trick of what I would really consider to be backwards reasoning; viz., the reason they don't consider it an important or serious STI is BECAUSE OF HOW COMMON IT IS, which... strikes me as fundamentally strange.

"It's no NBD, everyone has it bro" - like, weird reasoning.

As with abortion, many times people do not want to think about or acknowledge what it really is because that might mean having to reconsider the whole culture of casual sex.

It's a point of view that irks me, partly because, I have seen men with HPV genital warts who were fairly upset about it and did not know what they were from, and I've thought to myself, there goes another victim of It's just sex, man.

It’s not a shock or a comment on someone’s moral character when they pop up

Hrm.

Isn't a shock, I agree. As for moral character, I think this suffers from the same faulty reasoning as above (that because so common, must be morally acceptable) and I will only point out that, if everyone followed the traditional Christian model of monogamy, would be no widespread HPV.

That’s more of a comment on how common HPV is, not really on her behavior

I admit that I was unclear/incomplete. In fact I agree with you, which is why I said it was more of a "proto" redpill than a redpill properly speaking. My point was simply that it was one of those moments that taught me that women aren't always what they appear.

[–] SmurfESmurferson Stacy’s Post-Wall Mom 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

like, weird reasoning

Agreed. That’s what I mean by “factually false” - I know I’m wrong on this one, I’m not pretending otherwise

the traditional Christian model of monogamy

That model will never be re-visited; our society has decided that it values individual education and career over family. In large part because modern medicine has developed therapeutics and treatments that make sex less deadly, and the results of STDs less horrifying (looking at you, syphilis and you, too, herpes)

The Christian model made sense when STIs could end with madness or your nose falling off. That’s just not the case anymore, so people are prioritizing individual freedom

From a personal level, the Christian model was so rife with hypocrisy that I’d argue it was actually less moral than our model today

“proto” red pill

Ah, I misunderstood

Amusingly, we had a user here named “protopill” a few years ago who LARPed hard, and then was seriously outed as not being what he claimed when his resume was found

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For casual relationships, sure. For committed LTRs and marriage? Nope

Why? High n-count women cheat:

In illustration of this, the odds ratio of 1.13 for lifetime sexual partners obtained with the face-to-face mode of interview indicates that the probability of infidelity increased by 13% for every additional lifetime sexual partner

screenshot

Regarding the correlates of infidelity, results indicated that on the basis of both methods of assessment, the probability of sexual infidelity increased with higher number of lifetime sexual partners

Whisman, Mark A., and Douglas K. Snyder. Sexual infidelity in a national survey of American women: Differences in prevalence and correlates as a function of method of assessment. Journal of family psychology 21.2 (2007): 147.

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/ea41/5bbed4341255f836ec5a218e580a709a369d.pdf

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“They also don't distinguish between pre and post relationship n-counts. Cheating sluts have higher n-counts because their n-counts keep growing once they enter a relationship.”

This study distinguishes between pre and post relationship n-counts.

Same result, high n-count women cheat more:

The high correlation for females (r = .79) between reported numbers of sex partners and EPC partners [extra-pair copulation partners def. sexual partners other than primary partner while in a monogamous relationship] may bear on questions of both paternity and abandonment in the face of infidelity. Throughout recent human history, males have often placed a premium on female virginity for a marital partner (e.g., Ford & Beach, 1951). This is commonly thought to be an expression of a paternal assurance strategy, i.e., sexually inexperienced females are assumed to represent a lower risk of cuckoldry.

.

But the question remains: does promiscuity predict infidelity? Our data are consistent with those of Essock-Vitale and McGuire (1985) in suggesting that a substantial proportion of the variance in infidelity can be accounted for in terms of number of sex partners, but this conclusion is compromised by the fact that the number of sex partners is confounded with the number of EPC partners. To correct for this, we subtracted reported EPC partners from total reported sex partners for each respondent to create an estimate of promiscuity apart from EPCs. The resultant number (reported non-EPC sex partners) was still highly correlated with number of EPC partners (females: r = .67, n = 56, P < .01), suggesting that promiscuity is in fact a good predictor of infidelity. Indeed, promiscuity among females accounted for almost twice as much variance in infidelity (r² = .45) as it did for males (r² = .25).

Hughes, S. M. , & Gallup, G. G. (2003). Sex differences in morphological predictors of sexual behavior: Shoulder to hip and waist to hip ratios. Evolution and Human Behavior, 24(3), 173–178. https://doi.org/10.1016/S1090-5138(02)00149-6

[–]tiposkY'all hoes need Jesus! God bless! 5 points6 points7 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Thanks for the clarification, but the first part of my reply still stands. From the same study, there's also a correlation between male promiscuity and infidelity, and from another study, there's evidence that there's significant matching in sexual experience between partners:

Results indicated that, with the exception of cohabitating couples, romantic partners showed a significant level of matching in the prior number of intercourse partners. Further, among the married couples, a higher discrepancy between men’s and women’s number of previous intercourse partners was related to lower levels of love, satisfaction, and commitment in the relationship

Men who run through sluts only for casual relationships are also more likely to marry a slut, or to cheat on any woman they're with. This focus on female promiscuity alone is ridiculous.

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A lot of people seem to miss social cues. I think most people see them but for one reason or another (usually the reason is they're mentally unhealthy themselves) they choose to ignore the red flags.

I do think society is to blame in the sense that a lot of shitty values are encouraged. Solidarity and caring for others have been replaced by individualism and search of personal success. It's everyone for themselves, especially in north America.

Yeah, I think these are all components of our rootless strangerdom. Therein lies the reality...we do not live in an environment in which reliance on common sense or our own perception of cues and red flags is reliable, especially when considering the flood of chemicals in the brain (taking place in a context where even the most gregarious of people often feel atomized or alienated). We're all rubes ripe for each other's cons.

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Men don't like emotionally investing in the town bike. The ones that do , do so because they have no other options

The only way I can see this happening is in a small town where everyone knows everyone else's business. However, modern society is highly mobile so I don't see that as being a problem for too many people. I live 400 miles from where I grew up; no one here knows what I did in high school. By the same token, I have no idea what the people around me now did when they were 17, either ... nor do I care.

Most people are the stars of their own little show and aren't overly interested in other people's personal lives. If you consistently present as something, most people will accept that this is your identity. No one really cares that a middle-aged soccer mom may have done some racy stuff in college! It's even possible to pull off a double life in real time if you are discreet about it. Fifty years ago, there was a bestselling novel, "Looking for Mr. Goodbar," based on the true-life story of an outwardly upstanding young schoolteacher who secretly trawled seedy singles bars for hookups. Her conduct came to light when she was murdered by one of her sex partners. This is not a new thing.

[–] TheJim66 Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 3 points 4 points 5 points 5 years ago (37 children) | Copy Link

I live 400 miles from where I grew up; no one here knows what I did in high school.

And unless you are changing cities everytime you bang a dude, you are gonna leave evidence. Even if you do all that, which very few women actually do, your social media, your stories, your friends, your behaviors etc. etc. can give away your slutty deeds. Who you fuck doesn't happen in a vacuum.

Most people are the stars of their own little show and aren't overly interested in other people's personal lives.

Yes but people are very much interested in the personal lives and history of those they date.

a middle-aged soccer mom may have done some racy stuff in college!

Her husband and her sons very much do care.

Her conduct came to light when she was murdered by one of her sex partners.

Of course it did. Who you fuck doesn't happen in a vacuum.

Most sluts aren't Batman hiding he's Bruce Wayne.

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Lots of men don't care because they assume they're the best she's ever had so she's not going anywhere, and if she does, there are plenty more where she came from.

That's... not how it works. It's not fear of not measuring up or that she will leave. It's that you find her worthless and that investing in something worthless makes you a chump. You think a dude that marries a prostitute feels bad because he doesn't think he will measure up to her past lovers? Or because he is investing in a woman everyone in town got a taste of? That's the feeling men have when investing in sluts and why they avoid it when they can help it.

Not liking sluts is akin to being offered a great gift and saying, "No thanks; I'd rather pay full price for it."

Uhm that's exactly what investing in a slut is. Being offered free-for-all pussy and saying "Nah, I'd rather pay full price for it".

I never said I wouldn't fuck a slut. I just wouldn't invest in one.

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Sure it does.

Nah, it doesn’t. Social groups are much less locality constrained than they used to be and their databases are much more observable.

I have lived in small towns, big cities, small suburbs, and large suburbs.

Those of us with experience with women always know who the sluts are - it’s really not very difficult to tell if we spend more than 15-30 minutes talking to you. Consider that slut factor is an important indicator of probability of getting laid so we become highly attuned to it when looking for casual sex.

It’s just that in small towns we also personally know most of the other guys you slept with, small suburbs a couple of them, large suburbs maybe one, and big cities likely none.

In my current small town new women’s histories (and likelihood of slut factor) are unearthed and fairly widely known within a week or two of their arrivals if they are social.

And yes, it’s a massive LTR and committed relationship negative for men with other options.

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Firstly you need to understand that the role is one which inspires sexual attraction. You are a physically fit male, performing physical acts with significant skill in front of them, teaching and mentoring their children in that physicality, teaching and mentoring them strategically, guiding and leading their children in competition, and (in my case) usually winning. That turns women on innately, and if women tend to find you attractive in the first place, it’s like a giant stew of sexual hormonal action and reaction. The moms’ reactions to me simultaneously titillate and annoy my wife every year, year in and year out. It’s so obvious even she tells me which women I should “look out for” because (in her parlance) “they’re hungry.” That said the slut tells are:

The way they look at you
They frequently flirt (usually subconsciously)
They way in which they interact with you even when not flirting. They are far more open to you, will linger longer, have riskier and more in depth conversations. At base, they are not as on-guard against interacting with you because there is sexual tension.
Because they are not as afraid of the sexual tension and on-guard against displaying it they more frequently send subconscious IOI’s

None of this has any direct relevance to whether or not they have consciously considered, or even thought of actually fucking you. It’s really that they are much more comfortable being sexually attracted to you than the non sluts.

[–] TheJim66 Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 1 point 2 points 3 points 5 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

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They really do

they aren’t being monogamous with these women and they aren’t particularly emotionally invested in them

I know you don’t understand this, but monogamy isn’t something everyone cares that much about. Even I - when questioned on here a couple days ago - admitted that I would have stayed with my ex-h if he had cheated on me, instead of subjecting me to his increasing alcoholism

The men are living with these women, providing for them, raising children together, taking these women to family and work events. Their lives are inextricably entwined - there is literally no way to get more emotionally invested

Tying monogamy to emotional investment is great, in an idealized world. In the real world, some men have their wive’s permission to have side pieces. Some women have their husband’s permission to have side pieces

You think the only way to find out

No, I think that men are as poor judges of character as women. Just like women can’t tell if he’s a bad guy from the get go, men can’t tell if she’s a slut

Any hoping for “bad person radar” is just that - hoping. Abusive people wouldn’t get in relationships, cheaters wouldn’t, etc, if that were an ability humans have

[–] TheJim66 Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 1 point 2 points 3 points 5 years ago * (0 children) | Copy Link

I know you don’t understand this, but monogamy isn’t something everyone cares that much about.

Isn't it?

Anyway, it's fine if they don't care. I'm just saying that this is what they have to choose from, either a man that isnt monogamous with them and isn't really invested in them or a desperate beta they won't be attracted to. If they are fine with these options, great.I just don't think most women are really thrilled with that.

there is literally no way to get more emotionally invested

Did you mention anything about emotional investment that I missed? None of what you mentioned means that they are emotionally invested.

In the real world, some men have their wive’s permission to have side pieces.

And yes, these men can be emotionally invested in their wives. But how many women are open to the idea of a one sided open harem?

Some women have their husband’s permission to have side pieces

And if they do , the men aren't invested in them. Male love is possessive.

Abusive people wouldn’t get in relationships, cheaters wouldn’t, etc, if that were an ability humans have

All these things tend to come up on the surface, which is why these relationships most of the time end up being short lived.

The more experienced a man is (and the higher value he is ,the more experience he will have) the harder it will be for the slut to hide her nature.

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A woman’s worst enemy is her own mouth. Women who know girl game know how to be discreet. Sometimes we learn the hard way by being a little too open when we are younger. I figured it out long ago not to share my debauchery and degenerate behavior with most men until there is an absolute guarantee of what they were on board with.

On top of that, high sociosexual wome to signal as an uptight shrew because We don’t want to attract those kind of men so some of the tells are by design.

And finally, a true “town bike” is pretty rare in a large city unless she makes her way around a broad social group. For example I’m close w the local burner and edm party scene and there are a lot of town bikes But they never have issues getting into a relationship because the men are also town bikes and everyone is attractive and likes to party and do drugs and fuck but also are generally UMC white collar professionals that have a fair amount of overall freedom. In more conservative areas there are likely more consequences but the women that post here tend to come from more libertine mindsets so we cannot relate with the scarlet letter wearing town bike

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I’ve never been sexually intimate with any of the moms but I have certainly been outright propositioned by a few of them and get hit on frequently enough by the single ones and the ones in shite relationships. One mom would constantly chat me up after practice with stories about how she had schemed to get her daughter on my team and how her husband wasn’t sexually interested in her anymore and she wasn’t getting laid enough. Then, when I saw her at a local bar in the off-season she tried to kiss me after having had a couple. Another mom even told my wife that she gets jealous of her when she sees us together.

But generally speaking it’s not hard to tell when a woman would be DTF. Y’all are not the sexual enigmas that the incels and unattractive men on PPD would have you believe that you are.

We can tell when we give you the tingles and make you moist. Sluts tend to be more comfortable interacting with you when you have that effect on them and are more likely to seek out that interaction than to avoid it, even if they have no conscious intention of fucking you. Low-n women are more likely to be uncomfortable with that sexual tension and actively seek to avoid it.

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I agree with you on the first two points, but frankly I’m uncomfortable shaming someone for the decision simply to have sex without a little more context. I also think most people will be inclined to interpret criticizing promiscuity as general sex shaming (people get real defensive and jump to conclusions super quick whenever discussing sexual mores, it’s a hotly loaded issue).

Nevertheless, I do find that generally women with abnormally high n-counts (I wish there was a less high school way to say this) are untrustworthy as relationship material for the same reason as men with very high n-counts. Chances are when you’re thinking with the brains downstairs, you’re a selfish person and that leads you to some reckless decisions.

Now for the love of god, inb4 anyone with high n-counts gets pissed at me: I do not know you, I am not talking about you specifically, save your ire for someone else and spare your blood pressure. What I am saying though is that if they clearly have a pattern of behaviors that dictates how they approach sex, you might want to keep that in mind and proceed with caution. Do not be surprised when someone who’s an avowed slut dumps you out of nowhere even if you’ve made it clear that you value sex as a means of bonding and connection, and don’t be surprised if you thought you were exclusive with a guy who’s known to be a manwhore but he sleeps with one of your friends at a drunk house party. Sex doesn’t mean bonding for these people, it means validation. If you know this about someone and have a different approach and value to sex, it wouldn’t be unwise to proceed with caution, despite how judgmental that comes off.

[–] poppy_blu 4 points 5 points 6 points 5 years ago * (5 children) | Copy Link

[–] ConsciousGuidance5 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–] poppy_blu 1 point 2 points 3 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Disagree 100%. The nuance here is what is seen as promiscuous. Sure, if you say in a room full of non religious western men with some dating experience that a woman with 4 past partners is a ho and only a Virgin is acceptable to you, yeah you’re going to get laughed at. Most men agree you should probably proceed with caution with an actual ho and will join with you in the ribbing and jokes. But repressive sexist tradcon standards from 100 years ago just don’t fly in the west anymore. If that’s your cup of tea, you have every right to your preferences. But you also need to understand cultural and social context and would do well to find social spaces where like minded people congregate and you’ll find more men and women who share your views.

You also have accept that people who don’t share your views aren’t going to change what they’re doing because of your personal preferences. Any more than you should have to change yours. Fair enough?

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Slut shaming is present in literally any teen show to ever exist. The "slut" is an outcast none of the girls want to be around, and don't want their boyfriends to be around. The main heroine of any given YA media is more likely to be a virgin who loses it with her oneitis at some point during the show than a slut. At best she's a side character with family issues and a drug problem who actually isn't that bad once you get to know her, she's the resident psychotic bitch at worst.

If anything the reality (people really don't care that much) is less harsh than media. The media comes across as being written by old people from an era where people actually might have cared more. People go off to college and realize that hooking up is actually the norm and doesn't necessarily get you labeled the way it does on Freeform or whatever.

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Oftentimes when people are that powerful, it’s not even about a specific goal so much as just “do what I say.” She lived a certain way and it got her there. She runs Silicon Valley and absolutely thinks she has the right to lord over you, that’s how the ultra-powerful think. It’s just in her nature to tell you what to do with your life.

Speaking of opportunism, of course encouraging “slutty” mores benefits them. It turns sex into a consumer commodity that can easily be gamed to sell products and cultural values that benefit them.

“I am an immensely wealthy and powerful woman. I am telling you this is how you get laid and reach success like me. People who fuck think like this. What’s the matter, don’t you want to get laid? Think like this and you’ll be a part of our side, the right side.”

“While you’re at it, keep subscribing to my platform. Don’t you want in on the latest trends and ideas we’re pushing out there? Come on, give in! Sex is nice, people who get laid think like this! You want what we have.”

One of the grand ironies of the counterculture is how much of a boon rampant, unchecked sexuality was for managerial capitalism. When you even turn sex into a consumer good that plays on impulsive/addictive behaviors, it keeps people confused and easier to control. The family unit is something people can be more loyal to than the state, so it must be destroyed. Keep them in disarray and wanting more. This is incredibly convenient for them.

[–] badgersonice Woman -cing the Stone 1 point 2 points 3 points 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Speaking of opportunism, of course encouraging “slutty” mores benefits them. It turns sex into a consumer commodity that can easily be gamed to sell products and cultural values that benefit them.

Men have always viewed sex as a commodity, and men have always patronized prostitutes and brothels. It is the world's oldest profession. The men on this sub whining that they can't get a virgin view sex as a commodity too, they just don't want to buy a used sex dispenser.

They don't give a shit about the woman herself or having a loving family if their first concern about a woman is whether or not she's fresh out of the box. But Instagram doesn't really sell sex-- in fact, it would sell more digital sex and more clicks if women never had sex outside of marriage, because many more men would pay more money to desperately clicks to see photos of women showing their ankles or whatever.

I'm not a fan of casual sex myself, and I think Sandberg is a powerful greedy lady trying to get women to work their asses off to serve her corporate ass. But Sheryl Sandberg saying "have sex because it's fun" instead of "never have any sex for fun so you can sell your virginity to the highest bidder" is hardly their business model. At most, it would be beneficial to her for women to work for her and never settle down to have kids... but she also tells women to get married later.

The family unit is something people can be more loyal to than the state, so it must be destroyed.

Nobody is "loyal" to Facebook as an entity. And besides, ask the men here: they view marriage as an exchange of sex for the man's money. Many men have viewed it that way well before the digital era as well. All without the influence of Sandberg.

[–] Brainless-Wonder 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I think you’re getting hung up on some finer details and missing the greater point.

I’m not making this about a “men versus women” thing. If it seemed that way because I used the word “slutty,” I meant men as well, I was just framing it the way you had. This screws both sexes.

The notion that Instagram doesn’t sell sex is just naive. I’m really trying to give you the benefit here so maybe that’s just wrong phrasing but, Jesus, Instagram doesn’t sell sex?? Have you been on there? Also no, your model there doesn’t make sense. They sell sex now more than ever before because it’s been normalized, and because it sells hotter than potato chips.

It’s not about being loyal to Facebook per se, this is what I mean by getting hung up on specifics. By having it, you’re already giving into receiving the advertising and messaging that whole conglomerate of Silicon Valley and their lackeys put out there.

There are quite a few people who get married out of romantic concepts of love and commitment, not just money. I’d wager most people probably still get married for that.

Your second to last point makes it seem like you agree with me quite a bit (since that’s really what I’m getting at), but are fighting over nitpicks. I guess that’s the “D” of PPD though.

[–] badgersonice Woman -cing the Stone 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

The notion that Instagram doesn’t sell sex is just naive.

It sells advertising space to advertisers who want people to see their ads. Women having sexually appealing pictures of themselves draws men to see more eyes. Sexually appealing pictures are not SEX: nobody got laid. I agree that Instagram uses sexual imagery to make money, but it isn't actually a pimping service, no.

There are quite a few people who get married out of romantic concepts of love and commitment, not just money.

Yes there are. I'm one of them, as is my husband. But the normal people getting married aren't the ones treating women like interchangeable commodities where a virgin, any virgin, is a better "deal" than a compatible partner.

By having it, you’re already giving into receiving the advertising and messaging that whole conglomerate of Silicon Valley and their lackeys put out there.

I'm... not really into FB or Insta... but don't forget that reddit is also social media, so you're also doing the same as me here. Honestly, I think the world would be a better place if all social media were dismantled, reddit included. But that's not gonna happen.

Your second to last point makes it seem like you agree with me quite a bit (since that’s really what I’m getting at), but are fighting over nitpicks. I guess that’s the “D” of PPD though.

I don't think we do agree, though? Like... her advice still says to settle down if they want. The fact that weirdo virgin chasers who commodify women based on their age or "purity" won't want them isn't really a concern-- virgins don't want to be treated like a thing to be consumed by these men based on their virginity either.

[–] Brainless-Wonder 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Nitpicking yet again. Of course Instagram doesn’t very literally prostitute young women or produce porn, but you are aware of the expression “sex sells,” right? People who conform to sexually appealing standards who may or may not be clothed appearing on consumer goods to boost sales? This is what I’m referring to. Figure of speech. Instagram influencers do this constantly, they aren’t using ugly people to sell clothes.

Well at this point I’m pretty sure we’re talking past each other, because I hardly give a shit about the weirdo virgin chasers and my argument wasn’t concerning them. They’re an exceedingly rare minority aside from some parts of Reddit I’ve noticed; I’ll wager that most men in first world countries at this point know that women have had sex with others before them and understand that this isn’t abnormal.

I won’t say most of the world doesn’t believe this (there are entire major religions after all that idolize virginity), but chances are if you’re a Westerner in a developed country you aren’t religious in the theological sense and thereby hardly give a fuck about your woman not being a virgin. If they do, then they’ve got another thing coming.

[–] badgersonice Woman -cing the Stone 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

you are aware of the expression “sex sells,” right? People who conform to sexually appealing standards who may or may not be clothed appearing on consumer goods to boost sales

I am aware of the phrase, and it doesn’t fit your original complaint that women are being taught to fuck too many men. Clothing isn’t fucking, clothing doesn’t make someone a slut, and clothing doesn’t control or measure N-count.

So again, I don’t know why you’re complaining about Sandberg supposedly pushing young women to not be virgins: clothing doesn’t determine virginity and it doesn’t determine sluttiness or ncount or anything else you were worried about SS pushing on women.

It’s not nit-picking, because your original complaint was that SS or society or whoever is teaching girls to fuck lots of men and that men will not want to marry them later. Heck, it’s not nitpicking because N-counts is the topic of the entire stickied megathread here— you’ve just changed the goalposts to clothing instead of actual sex to claim the topic of actual sex is “nitpicking”.

I still do not see how Instagram is doing what you say it is doing, nor do I see how encouraging women to have many sexual partners benefits Zuck’s bottom line.

If your complaint is also that women aren’t dressing modestly enough anymore, well, there are also still modest women around, they’re just not the ones you picked for your Instagram feed. My Instagram, for what little I use it, doesn’t have any bikini-clad bimbos. It’s mostly dog and kid pics from close friends and family.

I’ll wager that most men in first world countries at this point know that women have had sex with others before them and understand that this isn’t abnormal.

Yes, this is what is generally normal in the west. And likewise, most women aren’t fucking dozens or hundreds of men either, anyways— they mostly have like 1-5 LTRs that didn’t work out before finding one that does, and another group also have casual sex a few times but don’t like it much. It does go both ways. Most normal western women are not turbo-sluts who have fucked 20+ men, and most normal men do not demand 17 year old virgins who cover every inch of skin in fabric.

[–] Brainless-Wonder 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

If you don’t see a relationship between the hypersexualized women that are frequently featured on social media and a change in sexual norms, then I really don’t know what to tell you.

Again, taking my claims out of context. I’m not saying that it’s bad that someone is saying young women shouldn’t be virgins. I’m unsure if you’re trying to be snarky or are projecting an argument you had with someone else onto me, because that is a common stance here but it’s not something I’m particularly worried about.

To outline my position: My worry comes from the fact that it’s yet another person in a high position of power preaching some progressive myth that fucking around is empowering. I think we’ve got a lot of disarray in how young people date nowadays due to the emphasis on casual sex with as many partners as possible at the expense of good communication and building something together. Turning something as emotionally loaded and physically intense as sex into recreation for one’s own ego has fostered distrust and fear towards one another, I think it’s hard to not notice that.

Regarding “Zuck’s final goal” (not how I’d put it, but to use your phrasing) and how this all ties in, read some books or papers on managerial capitalism. It’ll come up eventually. I get the feeling you and I have differing levels of skepticism/disdain towards those in power so I dunno how convinced you’d be, but hey, it’s a nice read.

My complaint isn’t that “women aren’t dressing modestly.” I don’t expect a bunch of Catholic nuns, but aping the Instagram butt model look is a bit much. Whether they’re on my Instagram or not (I don’t even have one), this shit is everywhere and definitely sets a certain standard for where people get their value from. It happens to be an incredibly warped standard thanks to Photoshop and filters, and it really fucks with people once they hit the age where they can’t get by on looks anymore. I think it sets a shitty precedent for how people value themselves. Social media butchering peoples’ self-esteem is neither a radical nor new concept.

Your last point’s exactly along the lines of what I’ve been saying about that, I agree fully. In a developed Western country, no, not every woman is a turbo slut (lol) and not every guy expects virgins.

[–] badgersonice Woman -cing the Stone 1 point 2 points 3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I’m unsure if you’re trying to be snarky or are projecting an argument you had with someone else onto me, because that is a common stance here but it’s not something I’m particularly worried about.

Then I didn’t read your intended point correctly. But also... i mean, look what thread you’re on. This is actually the “women are evil for having too many partners” thread, after all.

My worry comes from the fact that it’s yet another person in a high position of power preaching some progressive myth that fucking around is empowering.

Eh, I’ll actually somewhat softly agree with you on that. I don’t think Sheryl Sandburg specifically is listened to by younger women (many of whom despise corporate feminism). But as an overall trend, it’s a bit more off-putting. If fucking around is something you genuinely, in your heart of hearts, want to do, then it doesn’t really bother me. But it’s not “empowering”, or something that needs to be encouraged.

Young people who want sex will always seek out sex, as they always have... ditching the slut shaming is great, but I’m also definitely not a fan of people pushing others to have sex they may not want. A lot of people aren’t really the kind of people who fundamentally want lots of anonymous or casual sex, and shouldn’t be pressured into it just to satisfy some weird “empowerment” fantasy... and that goes for men too. Some young men also think they need to fuck a bunch of women to be considered “real men”, or to be validated or feel attractive or something, and I wish they didn’t feel that pressure.

[–] Brainless-Wonder 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Honestly I didn’t really read many of the other comments here. I figured it’d be an array of either virtue signaling how much they hate someone with a high n-count, or vice signaling how awesome they are for having a high n-count. Still the same old speculations of worth based on sex.

No, I barely even knew who Sheryl Sandberg even was until recently. I also can’t really vouch as to whether or not young women actually hate corporate feminism because it benefits so many of them, they may roll their eyes at it in private (even then, only some) but it benefits them immensely. Most young people aren’t really going to bite the hand, especially in the corporate/white collar/academic fields where your job depends on how much people like you.

Yeah, it’s funny how much of the rhetoric is usually about how you shouldn’t shame anyone for their sexuality, and yet conversely on the other side of that is people being pressured and pushed into having sex they may not even want to be considered an empowered, well-functioning example of their gender. There’s this narrative that life isn’t fulfilling til you’ve fucked around, it practically determines your worth during your 20’s. Men really fall into this for exactly why you’ve said, and I think that winds up being bad for women as well when you’ve just got men who have no idea how to see anything in a woman beyond sex. I’m not a prude, sex is great, but with this in mind I get why high n is off-putting for so many.

[–] lepetitdaddydupeuple Bi polyamorist dude AKA confused slutbag 4 points 5 points 6 points 5 years ago (48 children) | Copy Link

[–] Willow-girl Livin' the dream! No really, I am ... 2 points 3 points 4 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–] lepetitdaddydupeuple Bi polyamorist dude AKA confused slutbag 2 points 3 points 4 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] Willow-girl Livin' the dream! No really, I am ... 2 points 3 points 4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] Think4Yoself -1 points 0 points 1 point 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–] lepetitdaddydupeuple Bi polyamorist dude AKA confused slutbag 1 point 2 points 3 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–] Think4Yoself -2 points -1 points 0 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–] lepetitdaddydupeuple Bi polyamorist dude AKA confused slutbag 2 points 3 points 4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Because that’s how male and female sexual strategies work. There’s millions of years of evolutionary biology behind it.

The usual "redpillers are evopsych experts" when in reality most (not all but most) conclusions I read from those "experts" are pure nonsense or at least dramatically interpreted as they like.

I can show you a bunch of studies that go the opposite way from the one you like and if you're like the other redpillers here you'll just tell me my studies happen to be wrong.

Then you’re the exception that proves the rule (or more likely you’re lying in hopes of getting scraps of female attention from the sluts).

The usual "you disagree therefore you must be white knighting virtue signaling for sex". Sorry I'm not so pathetic that I would betray my opinions for sex.

And I'm no exception to the rule. Men who had enough sex in their life know the value of a good slut Vs a prude in bed. Seems like common sense to me.

[–] AnActualPerson Girthy 2 points 3 points 4 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–] AnActualPerson Girthy 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] Barely-moral Red leaning purple-seal. Diagnosed ASPD ( Man ) 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (27 children) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 2 points 3 points 4 points 5 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–] Barely-moral Red leaning purple-seal. Diagnosed ASPD ( Man ) 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

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[–] Barely-moral Red leaning purple-seal. Diagnosed ASPD ( Man ) 2 points 3 points 4 points 5 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–] Barely-moral Red leaning purple-seal. Diagnosed ASPD ( Man ) 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Most young people don’t make it long term

Because they don't build incentive structures that lead to long term success in the relationship.

The vast majority of people are not looking for a homeless partner with no options.

They should consider the idea if they want a stable relationship. If they don't well then there is no issue.

Again her “best” seems to be her lack of opportunity and options

Her best was her youth. And I got it.

What would you do if she suddenly decided to go to nursing school?

She is free to do it. I would help her. Nothing she can do will change the fact that I am the best she can get in every single aspect.

Lets say that in some way she gets surgery to improve her looks, learns how to talk and act in a way that does not show her original socio-economic status, get enough of an education and a job that not only pays for the lifestyle she has with me but also puts her in the social circles in which she can meet and know people on my level or even better than me...

Most of those guys will have no interest in her because she was born low-class. Most of those guys will have no interest in her because she is no longer young and then even if she finds a man that does not have those issues that man does not have what I showed her during the last 8 years... an obsession with telling the truth and making sure that she is happy. 8 years, 0 lies and 0 circumstances in which I put myself or my comfort/well being over her.

If she can find someone better than me and get him/keep him then I will do nothing to stop her. Her happiness comes first. If my best is not enough to be the best she can get then I don't deserve her.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–] Barely-moral Red leaning purple-seal. Diagnosed ASPD ( Man ) 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago * (5 children) | Copy Link

[–] Barely-moral Red leaning purple-seal. Diagnosed ASPD ( Man ) 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

You missed my point. My point is that doesn’t mean if she could support herself she would still stay.

She can leave me at any time and I will make sure she gets a job that she will be able to keep and will pay more than enough for her to live comfortably. She knows that option is on the table since day one.

I assume she won't leave because she has no better option than staying with me.

“From your perspective “ doesn’t predict how anyone else feels. You have a bizarre incapacity to see this situation from anything other than your perspective, which is why you fail to see this relationship as potentially less than optimal for her.

It is optimal for her because I know the kind of life she wanted for herself. She wants a life of leisure and abundance without working. She grew up wanting to be the one that stays at home making a home out of a house having someone that takes care of the world for her because of their affection for her.

She can't get that without a man of means and no man of means would pick her over a better option that he is able to get.

I am her best option. I picked her because that is the case.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–] Barely-moral Red leaning purple-seal. Diagnosed ASPD ( Man ) 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–] Barely-moral Red leaning purple-seal. Diagnosed ASPD ( Man ) 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–] lepetitdaddydupeuple Bi polyamorist dude AKA confused slutbag 3 points 4 points 5 points 5 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

How does giving your youth to the guys that are not worth it

Maybe stop thinking that women having sex is "giving" something to someone?

Sex and relationships is something that two people participate in. It's not a gift or a prize. You're not worth less after having sex with someone.

As long as you were careful (no unwanted pregnancy or STD) you did not lose anything after having sex.

and not to the guy who is actually worth it reserving the really good stuff for the latter

If you find the perfect partner early, of course you should lasso him right away. This seldom happen. You might also be too young to know what you want, like, or need.

Also, sex with girls is nice, but sharing your life with a fully developed intellectually mature person is where the real happiness is.

Ideally you get both (that's the reason I'm poly).

[–] Barely-moral Red leaning purple-seal. Diagnosed ASPD ( Man ) 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

Maybe stop thinking that women having sex is "giving" something to someone?

I am open to arguments.

Sex and relationships is something that two people participate in

Sex and relationships are also something you either have or you don't.

It's not a gift or a prize.

It is a positive thing that you can't get without another human deciding you should.

You're not worth less after having sex with someone.

I agree. That was not my point. My point is that a woman's yout is part of her best and if she is not giving said youth to the guy that is actually worth it then she is not reserving the really good stuff for him, she is giving the really good stuff to other guys, the one that are not actually worth it.

As long as you were careful (no unwanted pregnancy or STD) you did not lose anything after having sex.

Not about sex. About youth.

Also, sex with girls is nice, but sharing your life with a fully developed intellectually mature person is where the real happiness is.

As someone that values seeing my partner grow/mature and sharing first experiences I can say that everything a "fully developed intellectually mature person" can give me, a young person will be able to give me eventually. On the other hand the "fully developed intellectually mature person" will never be able to give me what a young person can.

[–] lepetitdaddydupeuple Bi polyamorist dude AKA confused slutbag 1 point 2 points 3 points 5 years ago * (9 children) | Copy Link

I was agreeing up to:

My point is that a woman's yout is part of her best

Meh. Looks can be better when she's young and that's pretty much it. It's not even always the case, a lot of people get insanely hotter with time (at least up to 40, I'm 33 years old so I don't really date over 40, maybe I'll change my mind again when I'll be older)

My point is that a woman's yout is part of her best and if she is not giving said youth to the guy that is actually worth it then she is not reserving the really good stuff for him, she is giving the really good stuff to other guys, the one that are not actually worth it.

You're repeating your first comment here. My point is that I don't agree on what you're saying is the best, and I don't agree on "giving". When you say:

It is a positive thing that you can't get without another human deciding you should.

Yes indeed, but that's not "giving". That's a woman deciding she'll get some pleasure out of this.

As someone that values seeing my partner grow/mature and sharing first experiences I can say that everything a "fully developed intellectually mature person" can give me, a young person will be able to give me eventually.

You just need to wait 10 years that they become a more developed person and hope you're still compatible by then. Doesn't seem like a great plan to me!

On the other hand the "fully developed intellectually mature person" will never be able to give me what a young person can.

If you value the kind of beauty you can only find in youth, well, that's your right. The question is, why are you not out there having sex with young women then?

If you can't because you're not proposing anything that they would like, then this is not really a woman's concern. They don't care, which is quite normal.

You don't need to be a "bad boy". Women are not attracted to assholes (actually a very small minority is but you dont want to interact with those). They want someone attractive as fuck. Which in real life often comes with real or fake confidence and the guy being kinda dickish. But the dickish part is not the interesting part. The attractive part is the interesting part.

If all you value is sex with young girls, well, they're having sex right now, so you're in luck. Go be attractive and catch them'all.

Women and men alike don't value the same thing for an LTR and for a quickie penis-in-vagina. Which is normal, isn't it?

You don't get to say it's unfair because they should morally choose instead to pity-fuck less attractive people. Everyone is entitled to have (consensual) sex with who they please.

[–] Barely-moral Red leaning purple-seal. Diagnosed ASPD ( Man ) 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Yes indeed, but that's not "giving". That's a woman deciding she'll get some pleasure out of this.

The way she thinks about it does not change the fact that the end result of the situation is that without her decision, the man gets nothing. That is giving.

You just need to wait 10 years that they become a more developed person and hope you're still compatible by then. Doesn't seem like a great plan to me!

It seems like a good plan to me. I am patient and know how to vet.

If you value the kind of beauty you can only find in youth, well, that's your right.

I never said anything about beauty. I said that I vaue seeing my partner grow/mature and sharing first experiences.

The question is, why are you not out there having sex with young women then?

Because I don't have interest in having casual sex or STRs. Also, because I met miss moral 8 years ago. While she had youth to give of course.

If you can't because you're not proposing anything that they would like, then this is not really a woman's concern. They don't care, which is quite normal.

I can. I have no interest because I have miss moral. If I couldn't you would have a point.

You don't need to be a "bad boy". Women are not attracted to assholes (actually a very small minority is but you dont want to interact with those)

I could argue against it but it is not necessary. My point still stands even if this sentence is right.

You don't get to say it's unfair because they should morally choose instead to pity-fuck less attractive people.

That was not my point. My point is that if a woman is not giving her youth to the guy that is actually worth it then she is not reserving the really good stuff for him, she is giving the really good stuff to other guys, the ones that are not actually worth it.

Everyone is entitled to have sex with who they please.

I would not say anyone is entitled to have sex with who they please. I think they have the right to decide with whom they are willing to have sex and to refuse to have sex with anyone for any or no reason.

[–] lepetitdaddydupeuple Bi polyamorist dude AKA confused slutbag 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–] Barely-moral Red leaning purple-seal. Diagnosed ASPD ( Man ) 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Do you mean first sexual experiences or just first experiences in general?

First experiences in general. That includes first sexual experiences but those are not more important than other first experiences.

If you really don't care about the beauty part, would you be okay dating a 30 year old woman if you're 30, as long as she stayed home all this time?

I wouldn't mind. I am still getting her best since there was no one in her past and she still has a lot of first experiences to live. That being said she is 30 so there is a serious posibility that she has already done her way of maturing but since she lacks a lot of world experiences I would be quite open to date said woman.

This apart, why do you give value to first experiences?

I don't know? That questions sounds like "Why do you like salty food over sweet food" or "why do you like the color blue?" I just value those things.

Don't you think you can still see someone grow/mature if you met them at 30 or 40 rather than 20?

It is theorethically possible but I wouldn't bet on it. I rather be with someone in their 20s. But hey, present me with the perfect lab case scenario and I would have no problem with someone older as long as I believe that I can still see them grow/mature with me and get their best.

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But guys aren’t going to openly admit (same with women) a high n-count. You should date, it’s human to want to connect with someone and bond. Don’t be judgemental, if he’s a good person give him a chance.

My only problem with females and high n counts is that they have so many options. They can open up some dating app, see they have 500 thirsty men. They’ll scroll through, see some douche with a six pack and ‘status’ and think he’s a better deal. Relationships take work, there’s ups and plenty of downs. Learn to settle, love their flaws and grow with them. Keep your hypergamy in check and he’ll offer loyalty and commitment if you value him and know that it’s hard work pleasing a woman. Your needs are endless, and your emotions fluctuate so wildly it’s hard for us to please every nuance of what you want.

[–] pre-DrChad 2 points 3 points 4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–] lepetitdaddydupeuple Bi polyamorist dude AKA confused slutbag 1 point 2 points 3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"low" means you did not experience enough bodies or fantasies or just sex in general to have a good idea of what you enjoy in sex and how to be good at it.

Need to take into account the number of times you had sex too, don't know why people here don't care about this (actually I know but it's too long to explain here). Having sex 30 times total with 5 people gives you more experience than 10 times total with 10.

For me I'd say:

you stop being "low" after 50 times total, N-count of 5 people.
"medium" 100 times 10 people
"advanced" 250 times 20 people
"master" 500+ 30+ people

Which really is not so much. One new person every month for 2 years and a half.

Of course having sex a lot / with a lot of people doesnt mean you're good at it, but just that you have the experience to maybe be good at it. I encourage people to read about how to get better at sex. It's a skill.

But imagine thinking you're good at tennis after playing 15 times only 2 or 3 opponents and never reading anything about tennis. Some people are naturals but most aren't.

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No you're not. Sure many women don't lie about their n count. But if you aren't a virgin how am I supposed to know if you've had 9999 partners or 1? It's not that women will or won't. The problem is that women can lie and there is no way to know this.

And if you were a woman who found a good man and you suspected he cares about the n count, and that you will probably find no other man nearly as good as him that would want to be serious with you, won't you tell a "white lie" just this time to make him "feel better"?

If your n count was 80 wouldn't you say only 3 because you knew "men have fragile egos" and n count "shouldn't matter anyway" and "he will never know"? Maybe you wouldn't, but many will.

A pussy doesn't have a counter like how you can count the rings of a tree trunk to know how many years it has.

[–] Marsmar2000 1 point 2 points 3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] QuenchlessGato 6 points 7 points 8 points 5 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link

People should have LTRs with people who have similar n-count.
People with very high n-count won't be happy in an LTR.

In regards to (2.) I believe that these people crave novelty and just want to experience new things. LTR is a complete opposite of this in the long run. While in the beginning such person may be happy to do for the first time all the stuff with their SO, after some time they will realize that the novelty wears off and they are stuck with the same person. The mindset and the moral values that made them rack up n-count are not compatible with a stable relationship unless you have some degenerate form of relationship, e.g. open relationships.

As for (1.) I believe that people with similar n-count hold similar view on sexuality and as such they are compatible with each other. I'm not a fan of the lock-key analogy that the Reds often employ, because it tries to push the idea that high n-count man = good, but it doesn't take morality into account at all. Of course you can't blame just men on this, since women actively state their preference for high-n men. And it's not just high-n women who have this preference, as low-n women also support this idea. But the preference of a high-n man by a low-n woman is a sign of wanting an inequality in a relationship. She wants to be led by her man, being taken care of instead of being an equal partner. Well, you can say that men and women want different thing from a relationship and this conflict will never stop and many people will just end up miserable, getting into relationships with people who don't fit their expectations, simply due to lack of suitable candidates. To me, a high-n man wanting a virgin for a relationship is sort of dishonest (?, can't find rn a better word to describe it), but people are free to want in their partners vastly different qualities than they themselves represent, just like a poor girl may wish to get into a relationship with a much wealthier guy.

[–] thelajestic Blue Pill Woman [ 🍰 ] -1 points 0 points 1 point 5 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

People with very high n-count won't be happy in an LTR.

In regards to (2.) I believe that these people crave novelty and just want to experience new things. LTR is a complete opposite of this in the long run. While in the beginning such person may be happy to do for the first time all the stuff with their SO, after some time they will realize that the novelty wears off and they are stuck with the same person. The mindset and the moral values that made them rack up n-count are not compatible with a stable relationship unless you have some degenerate form of relationship, e.g. open relationships.

How long, in your opinion, does this take for the novelty to wear off? 10 years? 15? 40? Cos I know plenty high n people in happy LTRs (myself included) ranging from around 5 years to 20 years length and I'm interested to know when exactly you think it will wear off?

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They're no more likely to be happy - in fact I know a lot of people who are with their "first" who are deeply unhappy but struggle on because they think they have to;

Wrong. Women with low n-counts report the happiest marriages

See below:

The surprisingly large number of Americans reporting one lifetime sex partner have the happiest marriages.

The difference between having one and more than one lifetime sex partner is most consequential in predicting marital quality.

https://ifstudies.org/blog/does-sexual-history-affect-marital-happiness

u/QuenchlessGato

whereas people with more experience are generally more comfortable leaving a shit relationship and can then stay in a good, happy relationship.

They leave because the current partner doesnt measure up to the long list of past partners

The more partners one racks up is the more likely that some past partner will be better than the current one. That’s why they’re perpetually unhappy and have such high rates of divorce and infidelity.

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Being ~~slightly~~ a lot more likely to leave or cheat than a low n person ~~doesn't~~ does mean that applies to the majority of people.

Proof below:

Female Infidelity Based on Number of Premarital Sex Partners -- Statistics Brain

Number of pre-marital partners: percent who cheated once married

2: 10.4%
3: 14.9%
4: 17.7%
5: 21.6%
6-10: 26.0%
11-20: 36.7%
21+: 46.8%

———————————-

[T]here was a correlation between female pre-marital promiscuity and higher rates of divorce. The research, conducted by Jay Teachman, found that women with 16 or more sexual partners prior to marriage had an 80% rate of subsequent divorce.

Wikipedia contributors. (2020, June 20). Female promiscuity. In Wikipedia, The Free Encyclopedia. Retrieved 12:06, July 27, 2020, from https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Female_promiscuity&oldid=963578370

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All men, whether his n-count is high or low, should only wife low n-count women.

Why? Only men can be tricked into raising offspring that aren’t theirs after being a victim of infidelity.

And... High n women are far more likely to cheat:

In illustration of this, the odds ratio of 1.13 for lifetime sexual partners obtained with the face-to-face mode of interview indicates that the probability of infidelity increased by 13% for every additional lifetime sexual partner

screenshot

Regarding the correlates of infidelity, results indicated that on the basis of both methods of assessment, the probability of sexual infidelity increased with higher number of lifetime sexual partners

Whisman, Mark A., and Douglas K. Snyder. Sexual infidelity in a national survey of American women: Differences in prevalence and correlates as a function of method of assessment. Journal of family psychology 21.2 (2007): 147.

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/ea41/5bbed4341255f836ec5a218e580a709a369d.pdf

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Do you know of any studies on homogamy in premarital sexual partner count? I don't think NSFG has data on number of premarital sexual partners for men, but I could be wrong.

Intuitively it seems like this kind of thing seems to be "taboo" in dating conversations between liberal people so I would expect a lot of people to not know how many their partner has had, thus lowering the correlation.

On the other hand conservative Christians would probably want someone who is like themselves. That would be a selection effect, and not a breakup mechanism.

I guess a breakup mechanism would be resenting your partner for having had more sexual partners than you had, even in the cases where you "tolerate" your partner initially. I can imagine that in some cases a virgin might delude him or herself into thinking that they're going to get over it but later on (after marriage) find out that they can't get over it after all.

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It doesn't apply here bc that would be implying I'm picking a few out of a mixed group of the general populace - that there are unattractive women in both crowds of sluts and non sluts, but that's not the case.

The world of private education rich people is its own closed off community, they don't usually interact with people outside of their class, so it essentially forms it's own mini society.

The boys of the rich elite community here have their pick of the girls here who are all attractive. They are not picking out of a crowd among the general populace - they are picking from the crowd of rich-parents, private education girls, who are all very attractive, both the promiscuous and non-promiscuous.

When given the choice between equally attractive girls, they choose the promiscuous women - that's my entire point.

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But the n-count compared to the hot women do not have a statistically significant difference. The uglier girl who’s getting pumped and dumped isn’t immediately replacing the last dick with a new one. Either she got her relationship but it just took a little longer or if she goes without dick in between. There is No strong evidence that the less attractive girl is jumping from dick to dick to dick racking up counts because she can’t get a commitment compared to the more attractive girl. This is wishful thinking that women are like men. Even I went spent most of my college years celibate, it’s a weird time, and that’s who the study is measuring. I had one bf at the beginning and one at the end, and and STR and 1 ONS in the middle. we can go long times without having sex at all if we are not finding what we want.

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HV to RP men but not to women

High value men are men whom women are viscerally attracted to. Those are women’s first choice mates who they choose during their prime years, the men who give them actual gina tingles. The men who they can’t stop thinking about. The men who they get intense butterflies in their stomach when they are on their way to their dick appointment during their prime years.

These feelings/ visceral emotional reactions aren’t present with the beta men that women marry when they are nearing 30

Though when women get old, they lie to themselves and start gaslighting themselves into believing the beta men they are settling for, who they didn’t fuck during their youth, are “high value “ and the “best they ever had”

AFBB requires self deception for it to work. Women gaslight so much that they even gaslight themselves.

[–] thelajestic Blue Pill Woman [ 🍰 ] 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

the men who give them actual gina tingles. The men who they can’t stop thinking about. The men who they get intense butterflies in their stomach when they are on their way to their dick appointment during their prime years.

Yeah as a high n woman this is exactly the man I'm in an LTR with now. We started out with dick appointments and now we're getting married.

Though when women get old, they lie to themselves and start gaslighting themselves into believing the beta men they are settling for, who they didn’t fuck during their youth, are “high value “ and the “best they ever had”

No, this is you lying to yourself trying to make yourself feel better because for some reason you don't want to believe that actually women who have sex actually can and do have happy lives. I don't understand why you have such a problem with it since it doesn't impact your life at all. If you don't want to date a high n woman then don't; I'm sure you won't miss each other.

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Not every quality low n count woman is a church marm

And the women here accuse men of being incapable of nuanced thinking

“Church marm” and “slut” aren’t the only two types of women

They are wifing up hot sluts.

Sure Jan. They’re definitely wifing up women who they describe as “belonging to the streets”

No high value man wants to wife high n women. Though, women delude themselves into believing otherwise

Sluts are the female equivalent of male betas, both bottom of the barrel in the eyes of the opposite sex.

Both are exploited and used by the opposite sex for what they are good for though, sluts for free sex, and betas for money/attention/free meals — but neither are respected by the opposite sex

Each surrenders what the opposite sex desires too freely and easily. Men desire sex the most; the slut gives this away too easily. Sluts effectively surrender their trump card too freely to the opposite sex which leads to less respect.

Women desire attention, commitment, and resources the most; the beta male gives this away too easily. Betas effectively surrender their trump card too freely to the opposite sex which leads to less respect

The slut is sexually easy, the beta is emotionally easy. They are analogous equivalents.

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rack up effortlessly by being w dumb adult

Do you not know what lack of self control is? Being dumb while being an adult shows a lack of self control.

the fact that men dedicate so much time is what makes it really disgusting to me.

Thats fine to think it’s disgusting, I would too if I were a girl. But the difference is that in the effort to have sex a woman has to... do nothing, whereas a man has to learn at least somewhat of a skill or just be extremely handsome. Not just for a random hookup but more importantly to find a nice wife. Putting in the effort vs. just existing is probably the 2nd biggest reason I would always want to be a man over a woman. At least on the journey to get sex we pick up a few skills on the way

Men who have high n-counts didn’t have to try

I cant tell if this is a troll or not lmao. The first thing people who are successful in anything tell you is that you don’t see the struggle to the top, from an outside perspective it just looks overnight. That guy who you think didn’t have to try probably spent months in the gym that you didn’t see.

[–] PrincessFKNPeach Manlet Lover 1 point 2 points 3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Do you not know what lack of self control is? Being dumb while being an adult shows a lack of self control.

Having a high n-count shows a lack of self-control, period.

Thats fine to think it’s disgusting, I would too if I were a girl. But the difference is that in the effort to have sex a woman has to... do nothing, whereas a man has to learn at least somewhat of a skill or just be extremely handsome.

To put that skill towards something vapid like notching your bedpost shows shitty priorities.

I cant tell if this is a troll or not lmao. The first thing people who are successful in anything tell you is that you don’t see the struggle to the top, from an outside perspective it just looks overnight. That guy who you think didn’t have to try probably spent months in the gym that you didn’t see.

Nope, I know some pudgy-ass lady killers. By the way, does going to the gym count as effort for women?

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With my last ex I just asked if she was a virgin, she said yes and I asked if that meant her hymen wasn’t broken and she said it wasn’t. When we eventually had sex there was blood everywhere. Most girls won’t lie about something so easily provable it would be like lying about being circumcised.

Wow, this sounds like awful, miserable sex for her.

Most girls won’t lie about something so easily provable it would be like lying about being circumcised.

Also dude, not all women bleed like a stuck pig the first time, especially if you don’t go in dry with the goal of hurting her. I didn’t bleed at all my first time.

And just FYI, you can also rip and tear a woman internally even if she isn’t a virgin and cause significant bleeding.

Also, everyone here take note:

With my last ex

So she was a virgin, and yet didn’t get your commitment. Sounds like staying a virgin is worthless for getting commitment and women shouldn’t bother.

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It's a survey from a sex toy manufacturer.. not exactly peer-reviewed.

A study of 2,000 Americans who’ve had sex found that 32 per cent have fibbed about how many past partners they have, with more men than women admitting to lying.

Emphasis mine. So of those 32% liars, >16% were men.

Of those respondents currently in a relationship (75 per cent) two in five have not shared their 'number' with their partner.

So 3/5 of the ones in a relationship shared their number, a majority

Results found 61 per cent of men were losing sleep over their partner’s possible reaction to their number

🤔

But... if she did have an intact hymen I could say pretty confidently that she didn’t get banged by an entire football team. Thats my whole point lol.

If she barely has hymen tissue, and the football team has small enough dicks to not stretch/tear any of it, doesn't she still have an intact hymen? What if she was born without a hymen, is she still a virgin? Nothing teared after all. Schrödingers whore?

Point is, the hymen is bullshit. It doesn't prove or disprove sexual activity.

[–] Marsmar2000 1 point 2 points 3 points 5 years ago * (4 children) | Copy Link

its a sex toy manufacturer

Its still a study...

if she barely has tissue yada yada yada

I wouldn’t date a girl who didn’t bleed, if she somehow (by your unbelievably unlikely scenario) fucked an entire football team, (11 players) who all just so happened to have micropenises, (0.015% of men in the U.S. have this condition) and she just so happened to be born with little or no tissue, (0.05% to be born without a hymen completely) and then had sex with me and it somehow tore, then sure. I wouldn’t know so I would date her.

I don’t think I even need to calculate how unlikely it is, that 11 men who all coincidentally have a condition that affects 0.015% of the population, come together completely by chance, and fuck a girl who has a condition that affects 0.05 of the population at the least. This scenario is ridiculous.

what if she was born without a hymen

again if she didn’t bleed I wouldn’t date her. If she was born without a hymen (again, literally 0.05% of women have this condition) then I would not date her.

point is, the hymen is bullshit

LMAO. You literally just gave this nearly impossible scenario that has likely never happened, and used that as your proof that “the hymen is bullshit” this is conspiratorial levels of cope and denial. If a girl has an intact hymen, she is likely a virgin. Thats it. I dont care about “what if she was actually a mutant with a healing factor and it grew back hmmm?”

[–] funlightmandarin 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] funlightmandarin 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

How credible is your scenario of the girl fucking the whole football team? Not very likely, innit. What is it women report? An average of 7 sexual partners? Small football team..

I wouldn’t date a girl who didn’t bleed

So you require to take her virginity to date her? Or do you take non-virgins, as long as they assurr you they bled when they "lost their hymen"? Lmaoo.

Let's try an actual study:

For the distribution of number of lifetime vaginal sex partners, we found similarities across age groups for male and female respondents, with a few minor exceptions.

Among 15- to 24-year-olds, sexual activity group 1 (0–1 lifetime sex partners) was the most frequently reported sexual activity group for male (32.2%–70.5%) and female (34.7%–72.0%) respondents. For all age groups, sexual activity group 5 (40+ lifetime sex partners) was the least frequently reported sexual activity group for all male and female respondents. However, among women aged 25 to 44 years, sexual activity group 2 (2–4 lifetime sex partners) was the most frequently reported sexual activity group (30.3%–30.9%), whereas for men aged 25 to 44 years, sexual activity group 4 (10–39 lifetime sex partners) was the most frequently reported (27.8%–34.2%).

If a girl has an intact hymen, she is likely a virgin.

I said it was not guaranteed, and so how would you know if she lied about being a virgin or not? So that makes me assume you're just uncommonly obsessed with a piece of tissue that has only religious value.

The hymen is bullshit as a virginity indicator.

[–] Marsmar2000 -1 points 0 points 1 point 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

what is it women report? Average of 7 partners?

HAHAAHAHHAHAHAHA. You honestly believe that? Really? Jesus Christ you must be new here.

so you require to take her virginity when you date her?

Yes. Did it with my current gf and hopefully we get married so I dont run into this lightning in a bottle scenario you came up with.

Among 15-24 year olds 1 life partner.

How in the world does a 15 year old report 1 life partner? What? They’re 15. Please explain how a young teen-young adult has a life partner. Also, believe it or not people lie about their n-counts. Do you really believe most women have only had sex 2-4 times by age 40? Really?

not guaranteed

Yes in that infinitesimal scenario its not guaranteed. Lets play a game, guess which one is more likely a virgin:

The girl with an intact hymen

The girl who has a rare medical condition and fucks 11 guys with an even more rare medical condition and she coincidentally has a broken hymen. Hmmmmmm I wonder which one ill choose.

[–] funlightmandarin 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Also, believe it or not people lie about their n-counts.

According to you, 32%. Most of them men.

How in the world does a 15 year old report 1 life partner? What? They’re 15. Please explain how a young teen-young adult has a life partner.

If you have a problem with the definitions in the study, take it up with the researchers that coined it. It's supposed to mean sexual partners that you've had vaginal sex with.

Being 15 doesn't exclude you from having sex, and it's an age range.

Yes in that infinitesimal scenario its not guaranteed. Lets play a game, guess which one is more likely a virgin:

The girl with an intact hymen

The girl who has a rare medical condition and fucks 11 guys with an even more rare medical condition and she coincidentally has a broken hymen. Hmmmmmm I wonder which one ill choose.

Now you're just arguing in bad faith.

Let's play a game: who's a virgin, the girl with the intact hymen, the girl who wasn't born with one or the girl that didn't have a hymen at the time of this game due to reasons (sports/masturbation/tampon use)?

The answer is: *it's not possible to know, because she might not even bleed during penile penetration, then how will you know she was even a virgin in the first place?

Because you say your girl bled: she could've just had her period. If I put the shower head inbetween my legs and rinse out, I have a 10 min window, longer if I'm fast and get horizontal. 10 min for foreplay, stick it in and presto! So much blood! Guess my 🍒 got popped, huh!

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ethical concerns involved in examining young girls hymens

You don’t have to do that. Just do a study asking adult women when they broke their hymens, before or after they had sex for the first time. Though if you ask this in somewhere like California vs somewhere extremely conservative you will definitely get skewed results. Best bet would to have a sample size from all 50 states.

the study

Yea im aware that it happens before sex, but I still wouldn’t do it because there’s no way to know if they’re lying. If a woman has a broken hymen then maybe she had sex (most likely) or maybe she played sports (which isn’t guaranteed to break it). The most likely option is that she had sex and is lying so I wouldn’t do it. Add to this that a third of Americans lie to their partners about their n-count, i think I have good reasons to be a little paranoid.

I lost mine doing the splits at age 8

This is purely anecdotal and holds little to no weight. Im sure that my ex is going to say something similar to the next guy she meets, given that we live in a pretty religious part of Michigan. I could just as easily say “This girl was a cheerleader and did the splits a thousand times and her hymen never broke.”

This is a recognized thing

Saying “this is recognized” doesn’t mean anything. Saying “all that matters when finding love is whats in your heart” is a pretty recognized thing, though if you browse this sub you probably know that this isn’t true, because (as the article above shows) people tend to lie quite a bit.

and the reason virginity tests are condemned

I would argue that it could equally be because anyone who disagrees with this is called a slut-shamer or a womanhater in most places of the Internet. Just because something is said a lot doesn’t make it true.

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most women don’t know

Include the full thing I said, “ask when they broke their hymens, before or after they had sex for the first time” most people remember their first time, and I’m sure you would remember if you bled or not. Im not saying pinpoint the exact moment, but whether or not you bled your first time.

plastic procedures

Come on lol. Hardly anyone is doing that in America. These kinds of procedures aren’t common outside places like the middle-east, Egypt, and India, where virginity has far greater importance (based). The average American woman is not going to pay $9,000 for a hymenoplasty because there’s no reason to. High n-count women usually go for men who are ok with it (which they should) and virginity has no where near enough mainstream importance anywhere in the U.S. to require a $9,000 surgery. But to answer this unlikely question, I would consider this rape by deceit and sue her for everything she owns if I ever found out😎.

splits are pretty effective at breaking hymens.

Again, purely anecdotal.

Internationally recognized

Did WHO put out a statement? Or does “internationally recognized” mean that a bunch of women from different countries who realized they had less quality people to choose from due to their promiscuous past started just saying this in hopes that people will just go with it? And I would say the hymen is a pretty good mark of virginity, even if a woman can have a broken hymen before sex, I doubt even 1% can have an intact one after sex. So its a pretty good marker of virginity.

Agree to disagree.

[–] [deleted] 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Hymens don’t have to violently tear. And there what it is, a tear, it doesn’t “break” into pieces on the floor like glass.

Actually this feminist conspiracy of yours is here to refuse bad science and bad women’s anatomy going on for Thousands of years. Before you say that they did it for thousands of years it must’ve worked they also use bloodletting and leeches for that long and didn’t believe in washing their hands or the existence of bacteria until the last few hundred years.

They used to marry of women when they were very young and not fully sexually developed. On the wedding night they had to have proof that she was a virgin so without bothering to get her aroused the new husband would usually push through and increase the likelihood of a violent tear and blood. Women close to the bride knew that wouldn’t always happen so it was common to give the bride something to mimic blood just in case so she would not be dishonored. So women propagated this lie because they Also didn’t understand anatomy.

The hymen begins to wear down during and after puberty as secondary sex characteristics come in. They are a few women that can tell you the exact date that their breast came in. It was just a gradual thing in one day OMG you realize they have changed rapidly in the course of a year or so. The hymen break with blood at sex and nothing else is a complete mess and I for one am happy that women are not being murdered anymore for not bleeding on their wedding night.

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but then it becomes a self reporting study

Better than nothing

I know a surgeon

Anecdotal

WHO

You got me that im surprised they made a statement, but this study is for whether or not one can conclusively say whether or not someone has had sex based on their hymen being broken, which I agree you can’t. Everything you’ve shown me is “what if it broke before” not “what if it didn’t break after.” If a woman has her hymen intact, she is almost certainly a virgin vaginally at least. As we’ve established, the hymen is fragile, and a penis will almost certainly break it

So, to be clear, if a girl has a broken hymen, then she may or may not be a virgin, but due to things Ive seen (women lying about their virginity) im going to stick to the safe side and not date them. If a woman has an intact hymen, then im going to assume that they are a virgin, because a penis in their vagina likely would have ruptured it.

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Holy shit, not sleeping well last night has gotten the best of me. I thought you were someone different lol

Anyways, the preference I got raked over the coals for is financial - I’ll only date guys who are my economic equivalent or above. I drive some of the guys on here a little batty because (in their estimation), I’m a 40 year old divorcee from a WC background who class hopped (via my ex-husband). I still have very high standards for men, and it bugs them that I don’t have a problem getting them met. They think these guys I have been (or currently am) involved with should be with 18 year old models, not me

Or, alternatively, my opinion as a woman doesn’t count because “you’ve always been very attractive, your opinion isn’t that of more average women”

So trust me when I say, I understand having high standards other people think are silly. But if you don’t have a problem getting partners who meet these standards, I don’t see any issue with them

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I don't necessarily think it's litterally 80/20 but I agree with the underlying concept i.e. the distribution of sexual encounters is more skewed towards the most desirable men getting a disproportionate amount while for women it's much more evenly spread out in that the average girl can get laid about as easily as a hotter girl can.

And I do think what you said is plausible at least logically. To follow your breakdown imagine a hypothetical scenario where there are only 10 guy and 10 girls and all but the 2 ugliest girls take a turn fucking the two most attractive guys and the rest get nothing. The tallies would be: Guys:[8,8,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0] Girls:[2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,0,0]

In this scenario whichever girls end up with the two promiscuous guys will have less than him, but in every other pairing the girl will have more than the guy. Also worth noting is the averages will be exactly the same (1.6) . It is mathematically impossible for them to be different for heterosexuals because whenever a man and a woman have sex both teams get a point. The medians can be different tho.

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[–] [deleted] 3 points 4 points 5 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–] Marsmar2000 1 point 2 points 3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] Deranged_Loner Wizard(Male) 1 point 2 points 3 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–] djblackmith 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] Laytheblameonluck 3 points 4 points 5 points 5 years ago * (3 children) | Copy Link

[–] Bandit174 Red Pill Man 2 points 3 points 4 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–] Laytheblameonluck 2 points 3 points 4 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] Bandit174 Red Pill Man 2 points 3 points 4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 2 points 3 points 4 points 5 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–] Laytheblameonluck 2 points 3 points 4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] PrincessFKNPeach Manlet Lover 4 points 5 points 6 points 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–] OG_walrus Space Chad 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] Bandit174 Red Pill Man 6 points 7 points 8 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 1 point 2 points 3 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–] PrincessFKNPeach Manlet Lover 4 points 5 points 6 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 1 point 2 points 3 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–] PrincessFKNPeach Manlet Lover 1 point 2 points 3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] Ecocavalry Short bald janitor 2 points 3 points 4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] PrincessFKNPeach Manlet Lover 6 points 7 points 8 points 5 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

[–] pre-DrChad 2 points 3 points 4 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] PrincessFKNPeach Manlet Lover 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] Bandit174 Red Pill Man 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–] PrincessFKNPeach Manlet Lover 1 point 2 points 3 points 5 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]PaleontologistNo83951 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–] PrincessFKNPeach Manlet Lover 1 point 2 points 3 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]PaleontologistNo83951 point 5 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–] PrincessFKNPeach Manlet Lover 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] Chaddamhusein Post body before calling me an incel 2 points 3 points 4 points 5 years ago * (2 children) | Copy Link

[–] PrincessFKNPeach Manlet Lover 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] Chaddamhusein Post body before calling me an incel 1 point 2 points 3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] Laytheblameonluck 3 points 4 points 5 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–] PrincessFKNPeach Manlet Lover 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] SuperSaiyanAssHair 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–] PrincessFKNPeach Manlet Lover 2 points 3 points 4 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 2 points 3 points 4 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] PrincessFKNPeach Manlet Lover 2 points 3 points 4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–] PrincessFKNPeach Manlet Lover 2 points 3 points 4 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] PrincessFKNPeach Manlet Lover 1 point 2 points 3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] MasterTeacher123 32 points 33 points 34 points 5 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–] Feminsmkildredtt 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] beigesun 1 point 2 points 3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 4 points 5 points 6 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] Bandit174 Red Pill Man 10 points 11 points 12 points 5 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–] MasterTeacher123 6 points 7 points 8 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] Bandit174 Red Pill Man 1 point 2 points 3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 5 years ago * (2 children) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 1 point 2 points 3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] JohnDoe9564 Blue Pill Man 8 points 9 points 10 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 5 points 6 points 7 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 6 points 7 points 8 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] JohnDoe9564 Blue Pill Man 6 points 7 points 8 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] 7SovarN 5 points 6 points 7 points 5 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–] PAThrowaway59 2 points 3 points 4 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 3 points 4 points 5 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–] 7SovarN 4 points 5 points 6 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 4 points 5 points 6 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–] 7SovarN 1 point 2 points 3 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 7 points 8 points 9 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] 7SovarN 1 point 2 points 3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] Bandit174 Red Pill Man 5 points 6 points 7 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] 7SovarN 1 point 2 points 3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 3 points 4 points 5 points 5 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 1 point 2 points 3 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 1 point 2 points 3 points 5 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 2 points 3 points 4 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] [deleted] 0 points 1 point 2 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] drok007 Not white enough to be blue pill ♂ 10 points 11 points 12 points 5 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–] Marsmar2000 1 point 2 points 3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] SmurfESmurferson Stacy’s Post-Wall Mom 4 points 5 points 6 points 5 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–] drok007 Not white enough to be blue pill ♂ 1 point 2 points 3 points 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–] AutoModerator [ S , M ] -1 points 0 points 1 point 5 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	N-Count Megathread
Author	AutoModerator
Upvotes	25
Comments	1244
Date	January 10, 2021 9:00 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/kumvm5/ncount_megathread/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/n-count-megathread.729233 https://theredarchive.com/post/729233

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