Paper Abortions

learn2earn89 · 2020-04-14T01:51:47+00:00

This is one thing I can agree on with the redpillers/mgtows. If a woman can abort an unborn child, why can’t a man financially abort? As long as it’s done within the timeframes in which women legally have abortions.

Not sure how it would pan out, but I think it’s something to consider.

Though the state would likely play the role of father if the mother decides to keep the baby.

Would the rate of actual abortions increase? Would people have less unprotected sex?

mangolover97 · 2020-04-14T01:35:42+00:00

I’m personally in favor of them but a lot of people are opposed for a couple reasons.

1) Reckless women who don’t want to lose their safety net. If this passes they’ll have to take more responsibility for bringing a child into the world.

2) If the woman has the kid then the financial/societal burden is shifted onto tax payers instead of the father.

3) Once the child is born people are always in favor of the “best Interests of the child” even if it’s at the expense of the father. It’s always best for a child to have to financially stable, healthy minded, loving parents raising them. Kids don’t always get all of the aforementioned, so the state will force it where they can.

Another thing, it probably doesn’t help that a lot of the people against it were kids who grew up fatherless/ semi-fatherless and are probably externalizing that hurt.

Also before anyone tries to come at me I only believe paper abortions should be a thing in places where women are allowed abortions, and men should only get the same amount of time to decide that women get. So if it’s 3 months where she lives, he gets 3 months too, if it’s 6 weeks then he only gets 6 weeks too etc.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2020-04-14T01:27:56+00:00

there is literally no State interest in doing this and there's on reason it would ever happen. the ENTIRE REASON welfare reform was able to be accomplished in the 90s was the beefed-up enforcement of CS on bio dads. WE HAD THIS ALREADY and men HATED IT and wanted WELFARE REFORM. MEN wanted "deadbeat dad" tyrone to pay for his own kids instead of tax moneys

tommydagun · 2020-04-14T03:22:21+00:00

[permanently deleted]

YveisGrey · 2020-04-14T04:53:59+00:00

Dude you answered your own question. Because the fetus isn’t considered a person and a child who is born is. The fact that you don’t agree with that is just a pro life argument not a pro paper abortion argument.

princelydeeds · 2020-04-14T04:08:42+00:00

We agree, women bear all the responsibility, so men should have no rights.

Conversely, where one has no rights, one should also have no responsibility.

WicGoingAnonymous · 2020-04-14T02:19:53+00:00

The difference is that abortion isn't about removing your responsibilies from the child you've conceived. Abortion is about not having to go through pregnancy and labor if you don't want to. Not ending up with a kid is an additional consequence, but not the reason why we allow abortion.

It's not that we want to protect women from the consequences of sex, it's that we don't do corporal punishment anymore.

And btw, paper abortion is called opt-out and I'm immensely in favor of it in Europe, but it's not comparable to an abortion.

wtknight · 2020-04-14T02:48:44+00:00

The counterargument to your first counterargument is that the fetus isn't considered of the same status by some because it's still fully dependent upon the woman's own body, thus her own bodily autonomy would seemingly have greater privilege than that of the unborn fetus. On the other hand, once the child is born, the argument is that the ability of the child to survive while being raised by its own mother is more important than the biological father's financial autonomy.

YveisGrey · 2020-04-14T05:29:09+00:00

So we can assume that OP is willing to pay for the kids since the actual father’s shouldn’t have to?

This opt out suggestion just seems like a way for men to try and pressure women to have abortions when they don’t want to. Like if you have this baby you not only have to deal with raising them alone I won’t give you a penny. Muwaahhaha! It’s all about spiting the woman obviously not about the kid at all!

arcticshqip · 2020-04-14T03:36:04+00:00

It doesn't work that way because the mother can't deny support and custody on behalf of the child. Child support is not paid to the mother, it is paid to the child. Also, people change their minds once the baby is born and want to be part of childs life.

NarniaFox · 2020-04-14T02:29:24+00:00

I'm not against it in a theoretical ideal world. I'm against it in the world where people often lie to each other and where non-consensual condom removal is a thing and not that rare.

This decision should be made in the period when an abortion pill could be taken, as it is the safest variant. So you have around 9-11 weeks to find out that you're pregnant and make your decision. Most women don't know about their pregnancy until it's time for their periods and not everyone has them regularly, so in practice you're lucky if you have a few weeks to make this decision. Some women learn about their pregnancy way after 11th week.
As I've already said non-consensual condom removal. There are different studies with different numbers, there are from 12-32% of women, who experienced this. I guess that paper abortions will increase these numbers.
What about married couples? If a couple plans pregnancy and the husband changes his mind after the pregnancy comes, it's pretty shitty towards the wife.

In general, I'm not strictly against this concept, but I do think that it should be formed really well, so it would protect both parties. But I don't think we'll see it in the action. Not because of "eveil feeeemales", but because most countries have the policy "in the best interests of the child" and this act would compromise children and it would increase pressure on the welfare system.

Don't want to risk, do vasectomy.

nemma88 · 2020-04-14T12:25:27+00:00

I think some suggested systems for paper abortions are problematic in the timing, in so far as there is a limited window for safest abortion (which still carries risk), a further limited window in which the woman knows she is pregnant etc. A system where someone is registered beforehand as 'Child free' or such would be preferable - but probably wouldn't be taken up with the people who have oops pregnancies. It's not feasible to run a legal system start to end in a few weeks, and a few weeks is your window here. There are other complications, If a woman is persuaded to abort because of a paper abortion and suffers medical damage from the procedure can she sue him for damages? In America (as we in the UK only count tangible damage) could she sue for emotional damages? It's a very complex area, again being 'registered' beforehand help with all these things.

I'd much rather see progress on things like reversible vasectomies or other male birth control which serves the same purpose without all the legal faff and complications. BC is the way forward imo to resolve this issue. The issue SHOULD be mens rights to reproduction NOT trying to equalize out abortion, abortion can never be equal.

Bntt89 · 2020-04-14T14:04:26+00:00

[permanently deleted]

RepresentativeSwan1 · 2020-04-14T01:53:01+00:00

(I commented on a post similar to this the other day but the mods removed the post, so I'm reposting my comment here since it applies).

Men and women are both granted the right to withdraw from their respective roles in the reproductive process. It's just that a man's role in the reproductive process ends with him nutting in a vag, whilst a woman's ends in childbirth. If anything, a man is granted even more right than the woman to withdraw from the reproductive process, given that women are only allowed to abort during first few weeks of their role in the reproductive process (depending on where you live), whereas men can withdraw at any moment before nutting in a vag.

Women are not granted the right to financial abortion, so granting men that right would not be equality. Women can either actually abort, or deliver the child and be half financially responsible for the child. They cannot complete their role in the reproductive process and then peace-out of their responsibilities to the child.

Willow-girl · 2020-04-14T04:23:09+00:00

And if the mother can't or won't support the child, who will? Why should society at large get screwed when it didn't get so much as a kiss? The sperm donor at least got a nut out of the deal ... I say, hand him the bill!

lestratege · 2020-04-14T07:01:41+00:00

A very easy system is to make an opt-in system for fatherhood. It's already what exists in many countries (for example France), where a father must willingly declare himself the father by either:

Marry the mother
Go declare himself as the father at city hall (the mother having no say to it)

Problem solved for men: if you don't want to be a father, don't marry, or don't go to the city hall to declare yourself as one.

akaean · 2020-04-14T01:22:02+00:00

As a man I am against this. It allows an individual man to dodge his responsibility and dump it on the taxpayers. The baby has to eat.

If you do away with welfare child support then I support it.

YveisGrey · 2020-04-14T02:26:01+00:00

[permanently deleted]

AutoModerator · 2020-04-14T01:15:29+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

controlfreakavenger · 2020-04-14T05:48:11+00:00

Another argument is that we are all on notice about makes you responsible for a kid in legal, moral, and economic sense. No one is hiding the ball here. I don't think this is the most compelling argument, but it is the most honest - we been done told you how to avoid this situation. You marry the girl, and she produces children, we are looking at you to "step up." You impregnate her with your semen, and we are looking for you to step up. It is not possible to be socialized in America and not receive this clear warning.

For brevity, I'll call it the "Brittany Griner" Argument.

Brittany Griner is a woman and one of the greatest WNBA players ever. She's also paying child support to ex, who either got pregnant through cheating on Griner with a man or through in vitro fertilization.

As far as I can tell, Griner's situation does not fit into either one of your arguments. Griner cannot impregnate her ex (they are both women) and Griner is being forced to pay, on the basis of her relationship with Johnson. Griner does not appear to have a bio relationship with Johnson's kids.

Now, what sense does it make for the government to say to me or you that you need to pay for Johnson's kids? You could say it does not make sense for Griner to have to pay either. But society tells us from a young age, certain activities make you responsible for children that are produced as a result of those activities. And those activities are very clear: marriage and sex. Its not honest to say you didn't know this was "the deal" or that you were blindsided by this.

901735 · 2020-04-14T05:52:11+00:00

Life and potential of life is not the same. We feel for life because it's self aware nature. There is nothing tragic in dying when you are not self aware. Having those feelings on "potential of life" is projection and more of a metaphysical and therefor theological argument - and therefor arbitrary - unless you are a jainist and treat all life equally.
Both men and women are aware and face the consequence of sex. The difference is we as a culture blindside men, while showing young girls graphic footage about just how wide their vagina gets during birth, how much shit and blood they are to expect. Something we do not do with adults, mind you. I think That's why the red pill is popular, just like feminist is a defense kit for living in a society hostile to women, the red pill is a handbook for men navigating the perils of a anti male society - one of those dangers are the true cost of pregnancy. I think here the feminist argument and the red pill argument overlap - at least identifying the problem - men, most men need to accept the cost of sex, real sex, not condom sex.
Society is not rational. We don't make laws based on what is just, but what feels just. Kids have no recourse, no defense and our whole lizard brain is primed to do anything to protect them - damn the consequences. Personally I would opt for a culture of opt in parenting combined with massive investments into orphanages and merging them into the educational system. Parents, male or female can just drop off kids and be confident that they will have a ok life. I think forced parenting is a guarantee that that kid won't have a good life - but we as a society can not bring ourselfs to actually create a institution that can offer an alternative. Which is fair enough, until you realize the whole education system is a babysitting institution and we prize them as essential.

saladfingers4141 · 2020-04-14T08:24:35+00:00

I agree for normal people but my taxes paying for every rood rats baby is what makes me ok with the enforcement of child support

LadyFerretQueen · 2020-04-14T11:32:18+00:00

I would be for it if anyone came uo with a solution that would not put women in a disadvantage and would just make the situation equal. Because the financial, emotional and physical burden is all on the woman if men can simply opt-out. I can already imagine situations where this would be abused and lead to even more children in bad situations.

niem254 · 2020-04-14T12:03:13+00:00

Men already have almost no responsibilities. They do do shit like whine about wearing condoms, swearing they are healthy, take condoms off in secret, don’t pull out “because it feels good”.

And you want them to have even less? Like being responsible for absolutely nothing?

A woman gets pregnant if a man cums in her vagina. That’s it. If he doesn’t want to pay child support, he shouldn’t cum into her vagina.

Lovecraftian_Daddy · 2020-04-14T13:18:32+00:00

I want to here more arguments against this from people who actually believe in abortions but dont agree with paper abortions because I dont see how you can hold one but not the other.

Don't see or don't want to see?

The burden and risks of pregnancy are disproportionately shouldered by women. The current legal framework doesn't even reverse this, since collecting child support is notoriously difficult, it just shifts some of the burden onto men. The incentive with paper abortions would be to file one with every woman you sleep with, regardless of the circumstance, because you never lose the option to financially support the child, you just lose the obligation to do so.

Men already have a 100% fool-proof way of avoiding unwanted pregnancy, abortions, and child support: don't have sex. Women take on a tremendous number of risks dating men, if you remove one of the only risks men have to take, far more women will start going their own way than they already do and avoid men entirely.

You should r/AskFeminists about this for more and more detailed responses if you really want to know why this idea is not popular.

OddButton6 · 2020-04-14T15:13:26+00:00

Aren’t some doing this right now with there kids? We’ve all heard the story of the dead beat dad not financially supporting the kid(s) and the mom is going through the court system to fight this. This isn’t new to me.

Pola_Lita · 2020-04-14T02:19:19+00:00

If the baby carries his DNA, that makes him its father and responsible for monetary and other support. There's no way around it and no amount of objecting about the way biology works, or complaining that women shouldn't be allowed to have more power than men is going to change the fact that kids need their dads.

This isn't a question of punishment. It's a matter of what exists.

2020-04-14T02:02:57+00:00

i only care about and support abortion from a bodily integrity standpoint. "paper abortions" have nothing to do with that so its irrelevant to me

intersIn · 2020-04-14T01:39:57+00:00

What if you made vasectomies mandatory for all men who want to join the red pill community. MGTOW can create a similar rule.

Mimoxs · 2020-04-14T02:33:00+00:00

I can see this being used as a tactic of malice.

You could verbally reassure a woman you'll be there for her, up until the point that it is too late for her to abort - then go through this process. That would be my assumption as to why a lot of men would go through with this. That's just my first thought.

DaphneDK42 · 2020-04-14T03:04:50+00:00

I don't really have any oppinion on "paper abortion" (other that the name which is stupid). However, there isn't really any comparison between abortion and legal abandonment. Real abortion is a physical operation much more invasive than signing a piece of paper. Nobody, outside some fringe crazies, are actually pro-abortion. Some people are pro-choice, but most still see it as a last choice for an unfortunate situation.

germophobe123 · 2020-04-14T04:17:08+00:00

Just for the record, everyone saying ‘get a vasectomy if you don’t like it’ is such a dumb thing to say. They are not comparable. Having a single abortion ,unlike having a vasectomy, doesn’t

1- cost as much

2- make it so you can’t immediately have another child with someone else you think is more fit AKA isn’t as permenant for your future reproductive abilities (altho yes it can harm it)

yasee · 2020-04-14T02:05:50+00:00

what would the process be like for him initiating the paper abortion?

yuckyuck13 · 2020-04-14T05:09:24+00:00

I'm neither for or against abortion. It should be legally available with proper medical representation. My only qualm with it is people who support abortion but not the death penalty. The fetus did nothing wrong to deserve to die but people who commit horrible crimes did, and deserve to die for it. People can't be pro choice and anti death penalty at the same time. The fetus didn't choose, the criminal did.

couple4play24U · 2020-04-14T05:23:21+00:00

Men may relinquished all rights to a child and therefore not be financially responsible, correct? I think this is correct. Regardless, I understand what you are saying.

SmoothPrimal · 2020-04-14T11:41:56+00:00

I think paper abortion should be treated like divorce. If given away willy-nilly this can honestly destroy society because there are many guys out there who would take advantage of the system. If you were to simulate what would happen, this would cause a large number of women ending up unsupported, pregnant and unable to work. The guy on the other hand suffers no repercussion whatsoever. Yes it’s her choice but a lot of women who get accidental pregnancy are young and stupid. One young stupid girl with a child is more likely to end up asking society for help instead of 2 young stupid people who have to support it. What people seem to think is that this is a man vs women situation when in reality this is a civilized vs uncivilized people situation.

Personally speaking, I would be for paper abortion. That being said, part of being a smart guy is knowing how to not get a girl pregnant. It would be a nice to have a safety net, but in my opinion the majority of sane smart men wouldn’t need it unless it’s a niche situation. That’s why paper abortion should be treated like divorce. It should be available, but highly curated.

A huge chunk of low value exploitative men tend to just fuck everything that moves and not give a fuck what happens after. I don’t think legally enabling these types of individuals will lead to a better society.

That’s why with anything, it needs to be idiot-proof. Unregulated paper abortion is not idiot-proof. Regulated paper abortion is the key.

HoneyNJ2000 · 2020-04-14T12:14:13+00:00

Men know that they DON'T have the ability to abort a child if they get someone pregnant.

THEREFORE, they know the exact risk they're taking every single time they unzip their pants. But their selfish need to get laid supersedes any sensibility and they throw caution to the wind.

And this is the price they sometimes PAY for it.

Men: if you don't want a kid and all the financial responsibility that comes with it, then keep your damned zipper closed! You have no one to blame but YOURSELF.

Silverpixelmate · 2020-04-14T12:29:15+00:00

Which is why non necessary abortions (which account for over 80% of abortions) should not be allowed to begin with. You wouldn’t have to sit here and try to figure out bs like this because it’s not possible. Allowing abortions already has serious logic issues. Of course more logic issues are going to follow when that is your foundation. So good luck figuring it all out. You’ll go in a circle.

WizardSenpai · 2020-04-14T12:29:44+00:00

the thing to focus on when it comes to whether or not something has moral value is sentience. does that life have personal experiences? then its immoral to rob them of their agency. this is why you wouldnt step on a dog but you would step on grass. dogs feel. fetus' brains don't develop to sentience until several months in, so if you snuff out the life before then its equivelant to picking a flower as far as morals are concerned. if the type of person who gets distracted by the semi-human-like shape and the fact that its growing in a human was morally consistant at all then theyd also be upset when people delete photographs. theyre both just objects until one of them has a perspective, it doesnt matter what the other details are.

Moving on from that, while I agree with you that paper abortions should be an option, unfortunately women wont stand up for mens rights to do this because it would disadvantage them and more men will simp and side with the women then will stand up for what ought to be their right. so really nothing could change unless we end womens suffrage, which wont happen because of the same reason.

Silverpixelmate · 2020-04-14T12:34:58+00:00

As I already stated, unnecessary abortions are illogical to begin with. So it’s impossible to now create laws on top of illogical ones. But whatever.

What about the women who do not believe in abortion? Do not believe it should be legal? Down right see it for the stupidity it is? Now simply because a bunch of people believe it’s ok, the father can skip out on what he created because this woman has the “ability” to have an abortion but of course would never do so? Again, you can’t create logical laws when the foundation is illogical.

2020-04-14T12:43:41+00:00

Paper abortions will only become a thing once women need them. Once artificial wombs become a thing there's no justifyable reason for murdering the child. Women will still want to shirk responsability for their choices. Boom paper abortions.

Masakan00 · 2020-04-14T16:36:00+00:00

Honestly stuff like this is why men need to be more picky when it comes to women so they dont get stuck with an entitled mini Karen who thinks the world owes her something.

Paranoidexboyfriend · 2020-04-14T16:38:16+00:00

I'm only ok with paper abortions if it includes an 18 year exclusion from social assistance for the mother. Dad shouldn't have to pay if mom has the kid without his consent, but me as a taxpayer sure as hell shouldn't pay either. That's all on mom. I'd be ok with allowing the kid to get social assistance while mom is in prison for neglect if she can't afford him. No prison for dad unless he told her to have the baby and then changed his mind after the kid was born.

2020-04-14T17:24:18+00:00

Ideologically, I agree that if women should be able to terminate a pregnancy, men should be able to do the same. Practically, I just don't see it as feasible. I should note that I'm neither team woman or team man -- what's "fair" to them is irrelevant. I'm more interested in the kid's wellbeing, since it doesn't have any choices in any of these matters.

The abortion doesn't create a person that needs to be provided for until it is able to become self-sufficient. All of those needs go away.

A financial abortion creates a person that's just starting at a disadvantage. Getting some money certainly doesn't guarantee the kid gets a fighting chance, but living in poverty as well as with an idiot mother is worse imo.

It's one of those problems that has no good solution. Maybe the availability of financial abortion would result in some women choosing to abort rather than bring a child that's unwanted by its father into the world, but I suspect that... mostly WOULDN'T happen and then the extra suffering gets passed onto the kids. idk. it sucks. I wish humans could reliably make good decisions :p

teibe · 2020-04-15T06:09:06+00:00

For the consequences of unprotected sex we have...

pregnancy OR requiring a medical procedure to terminate
monetary child care costs.
labor, time, and loss of resources while caring for the child.

The man only has to worry about one of these if he chooses to have unprotected sex. The woman is the default caretaker of the child, and obviously the only one who can get pregnant. In comparison to the other consequences, especially raising the child, writing a check is a very mild consequence.

So by allowing women to get abortions, she is removing the "be pregnant" consequence which was never a consequence for the man anyway. As a result of this choice, the man is freed of his responsibilities as well. It's a win win. The man financially aborting is just a win for him and a loss for everyone else, including the innocent taxpayers and child. The only person who benefits is the person who was half responsible for the child, and that's not fair.

Additionally, there is no equivalent option for the women. She can't ever get away scott free like the man. At the very least she has to undergo a medical procedure and deal with the societal shame that comes with that.

SolarTortality · 2020-04-14T03:53:02+00:00

If you can kill it, the least we can do is abandon it

Ordinate1 · 2020-04-14T02:01:55+00:00

The law has a vested interest in the child, not the parents, so the judge is only going to terminate parental rights if it is a benefit to the child.

They don’t care about fairness or how the father is angry he couldn’t force the mother to abort the child. They just care about the kid and getting as much money and attention as possible for the child.

901735 · 2020-04-14T02:44:13+00:00

That's an interesting idea. I am so=ure that sooner or later, somewhere in the world, it's going to be implemented. But not in the US, not in our lifetime.

If you think it through, it has some benefit for the woman too, and here's how.

2 people procreate. The woman is the first one to find out that she's pregnant (usually, as in 99.99% of the time). She notifies the co-procreator who then has a certain amount of time to state whether his intentions involving the kid involving:

level of involvement with the kid (being a father)
level of financial involvement with the kid ($)
stance on DNA testing

then the woman would have the final decision on whether to terminate or continue the pregnancy, having a thorough and complete picture of what the co-progenerator role would be in the future; instead of making assumptions that might not be met, leading to disastrous consequences for everyone.

Note: There's always vasectomy.

Rahim556 · 2020-04-14T04:37:27+00:00

I agree. If it makes sense in the woman's situation it should also be like this for the man. The fact that it's not is hypocrisy to me.

EspyPsyche · 2020-04-14T05:21:46+00:00

The thing is this: I gain a competitive advantage over dudes who have a bunch of child support obligations. Even if "welfare reform didn't increase the share of my money that I get to keep", child support reduces the share of my competitors' money that they get to keep.

Let's say I work at the same place for the same pay as Chad. Chad has advantages over me when it comes to attracting women -- he's significantly taller than me, trains at the gym for entertainment, and has the facial features women find attractive.

But he has three child support obligations to his three baby mamas. By the time the state is done claiming the child support, he's flat broke and can barely afford rent. I, on the other hand, have zero child support obligations because I used protection. I get to keep the majority of my check (the gov't still takes some in taxes, but all together I get to keep about 5/6 of my check). In some states child support is a fixed amount and isn't based on income so he can't even claim undue hardship here -- the child has to be supported no matter what.

He rides the bus to work while I drive a car. I get to eat at nice restaurants while he has Maruchan ramen and food from the food bank. I get to dress in the latest fashions while he wears clothes from the thrift store. I get to attend concerts and plays and sporting events while he stays home and watches them on TV (if he can even afford that). I can have a couple months of savings and make do on unemployment for a while until I find a new job should I lose my job -- if he loses his job he's behind on child support obligations in two weeks and faces jail time (which removes him from the pool entirely -- there's enough men in jail at any given time for child support violations that it affects the dating pool).

1) He can't afford the bar scene which hampers his ability to compete for casual sex.

2) He will eventually serve at least some jail time which removes him from the SMP for the duration.

3) My RMV easily eclipses his thanks to the state taking most of his paycheck.

Lack of paper abortion is basically an affirmative action policy that benefits less attractive men at the expense of more attractive men. Any guy who doesn't get casual sex easily and is smart enough to use protection should be against paper abortions as well as in favor of physical abortions (physical abortions allow more women to stay in the SMP/RMP who might leave it otherwise, and raise the average desirability of women in the SMP and RMP).

Pola_Lita · 2020-04-14T01:26:49+00:00

[permanently deleted]

princelydeeds · 2020-04-14T02:22:57+00:00

Men should have 30-60 days, post notification that they are the father of the child and after receiving the results of a blood test, to file for termination of parental rights. The man should be responsible for paying the mother the cost of an abortion in whatever state they reside and the man should be able to walk away legally after that point.

Ordinate1 · 2020-04-14T02:13:25+00:00

It is flat-out pandering to women and tradcons - a deadly overlap of the right and half the left.

asdf333aza · 2020-04-14T03:57:28+00:00

"If you can kill this muthafuckers, I can at least abandon him" - Dave Chappelle, 2019

But in reality, it's never going to happen. The government and mainstream media do not care about men's issues or men's rights. Every father opting out of financial responsibility for a child they don't want is most likely going to be another child and mother heading toward the welfare line. 60% of food stamps/snap benefits go to single mother households.1/3 of all single mothers are the textbook definition of poverty and 26% of single mothers are unemployed. If dads could opt out of financial responsibility, all those number would be even higher. The government is not concerned about what's beneficial or even fair to men.

Its would be fair to ladies to make a decision about what to do with their own bodies. If a modern day, educated, strong and independent woman makes her own decisions to have the baby, than a man shouldn't not be financially responsible for her independent decision. That's would be fair to guys. Her body her choice. His money his choice. That's what would be fair to both sexes. Agreeing to sex is not agreeing to have a child together, the same way agreeing to go on a date is not agreeing to have sex.

If women ever want abortion to be solely their choice with men and society shutting the fuck up and letting them do what they want with their bodies, than they should support and fight for this. However, we don't see mainstream feminism in the media even addressing it. However it's nice to see some of men and women agreeing on this here. Cause as long as men are expected to pay for it, they're going to fight tooth and nail to have a say in it and to avoid it. They'll probably lose that fight, but they will stress you out, irritate you and having you chasing them down for missed payments for years to come. And you can definitely expect to be looking stupid one or two times where you catch yourself being financially dependent on an unstable man's money and he decided not to pay it or suddenly moves away without telling you. Shit like that happens all the time.

ThisIsMyAccount135 · 2020-04-14T02:25:46+00:00

Yes please goddam

I want the least amount of responsibility as possible.

I want her to abort it and I want to financially abort it as well.

Luci716 · 2020-04-14T13:31:08+00:00

The part where you say men know the consequences about sex, wouldn’t women also know? And as such be equally responsible? It takes two to tango after all

americahope · 2020-04-15T05:55:10+00:00

Paper abortion is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Sorry dude, but you made that kid. So you have to deal with the consequences if the woman has to as well. 😑🤷‍♀️

pixelatedlizard · 2020-04-14T03:11:59+00:00

Both parties have to be held responsible for the child they helped create. Accidents happen, time to put on your adult pants and own up.

People regret car crashes, they cant opt outta those.

Abortion should be made illegal in most cases except if the child has a high chance of being born with severe deformities. If its form are the rapist or his family should be held financially responsible for the child and have to pay 50% or more of the kids college fund.

Title	Paper Abortions
Author	Bntt89
Upvotes	97
Comments	757
Date	April 14, 2020 1:15 AM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/g0vys6/paper_abortions/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/paper-abortions.653740 https://theredarchive.com/post/653740

Comments