Why do women expect empathy and a good guy behavior from "undesirable" guys?

Sadgue · 2025-08-05T03:35:26+00:00

Women (even blue pilled ones) scream through the top that most men are unattractive to them and most men looks avg =boring for for them. So if u all exclude...

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In the moment, it depends on the time and place. As an after thought, it certainly is. I am far more likely to be attacked outside, in a rough neighbourhood, than any woman is likely to be.

I have also actually been in a fair few situations, the women were not attacked, they went after the men. The women were ignored, but we still had to stay around and make sure the women were safe. Because if they were not with us, we could have just run away. But women (on average) don't run nearly as fast. So it was painfully slow, and we got out of that park eventually.

In another altercation, my partner was attacked, by another woman of the other group. I was attacked by the man. I again had to make sure we were both getting away safely. My partner caused the issue, then froze, when it escalated.

This woman has never spoken up, when during a casual conversation, something racist, or mean has been said to me. But the minute someone called her a whore for being with a "Paki". She started yelling slurs back at them. Then it caused a fight and I had to get her and me to safety. Which I did.

I genuinly have started to think that women do not actually know a dangerous situation when they are in one, because the have not experienced them so often, or that they usually get out unharmed. The women that have actually experienced harm, are far smarter than the average woman.

I have walked friends back to their place in the middle of the night. Then had to walk home alone through the rough neighbourhood. That is putting myself in danger for far longer, than if I had just gone home directly.

But if I hadn't, that would be socialy ostracising.

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Men are generally less risk-averse than women. Whether it be social conditioning or just biology. It is what it is. The point being made was that it doesn't mean their risk is lower.

Also, men are still conditioned to risk themselves to protect women. Male disposibility is a well researched phenomenon. Men and women consider male lives as less valuable. The whole, male friends, family, and partners, should add risk to themselves, for the sake of making sure women are safe, is a consequence of male disposibility. Because usually they put themselves at greater risk than the woman would be, if left to herself.

This is also something that seems to be very offensive to women when brought up. Usually, if men reject this role, they face social ostracisation.

I am not incel, red pill, or right wing. I am simply making a point of observation. I have taken on this role many times in my life without a second thought.

I have felt scared, anxious, and even pain. In order to protect women. I was never, not scared, walking around at night after dropping a girlfriend/female friend off. I would rather have been home. But social norms expected me to do that, so I did.

But looking back, none of the women in my life would put themselves in any kind of danger in order to protect me in any way. Whether that be social rejection or actual physical danger. Women will do this for other women.

I don't blame them, just pointing out that there is something amiss. Dare I say, even wrong about this dynamic.

And it needs to be pointed out, just like anything in society, that seems to be dated and unequal.

[–]Xeltar1 point 1 year ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Male disposability has not been the historic norm. Many ancient societies valued men greatly because they were the State's greatest assets in warfare and defense. Physical strength was a major competitive advantage. Men dominated society and prevented women from integrating themselves into political power structures or the workforce.

Often boys would preferentially fed getting better and more food than girls were. It was to the extent when ancient societies acted contrary to expectations, it was pointed out. Xenophon, the Greek historian, for example makes the argument that Sparta had much better results in childbirth because they actually fed girls well and encouraged them to be physically active.

You can see this in sieges too, where soldiers get priority for supplies over women and children.

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Male disposability has not been the historic norm. Many ancient societies valued men greatly because they were the State's greatest assets in warfare and defense. Physical strength was a major competitive advantage in labor. Men dominated society and prevented women from integrating themselves into political power structures or the workforce.

We see this effect in many ways, boys would preferentially be fed more and fed better than girls were. It was to the extent when ancient societies acted contrary to expectations, it was pointed out. Xenophon, the Greek historian, for example makes the argument that Sparta had much better results in childbirth because they actually fed boys and girls evenly and encouraged girls to be physically active.

You can see this in sieges too, where soldiers get priority for supplies over women and children.

Today, well in the Western world at least, there is much less demand for wars of conquest and physical strength is no longer a huge advantage in our economies anymore. I wasn't taught to be afraid, I was taught to be smart about potential risks. My brother was taught the same way and he's highly intelligent and achieving. I do agree it's boys being socialized in a way that is not helpful for modern society to be causing them to fail.

[–]One-Camp-1101 point 1 year ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Male disposability has not been the historic norm. Many ancient societies valued men greatly because they were the State's greatest assets in warfare and defense. Physical strength was a major competitive advantage in labor. Men dominated society and prevented women from integrating themselves into political power structures or the workforce.

having your role defied as fighting and dying for your country is not male disposability?

gladthat big dick patriarchy had my back in the old times

oh wait... it's 2025. andthe shit is still here

We see this effect in many ways, boys would preferentially be fed more and fed better than girls were. It was to the extent when ancient societies acted contrary to expectations, it was pointed out. Xenophon, the Greek historian, for example makes the argument that Sparta had much better results in childbirth because they actually fed boys and girls evenly and encouraged girls to be physically active.

that's a side effect of economics power being concentratedamong men. preferentially raising boys was to ensure the sustainanceof wealth in the family.

which has not been the case for more than 40 years

You can see this in sieges too, where soldiers get priority for supplies over women and children.

tats the nature f ideals meeting reality. fact remains that in the ideals women and children are meant to beprotected while men are supposed to oe that ideal a reality with their lies

Today, well in the Western world at least, there is much less demand for wars of conquest and physical strength is no longer a huge advantage in our economies anymore. I wasn't taught to be afraid, I was taught to be smart about potential risks. My brother was taught the same way and he's highly intelligent and achieving. I do agree it's boys being socialized in a way that is not helpful for modern society to be causing them to fail. But RP insists that the way men are is a factor of genetics and not poor socialization which is BS.

I don't belive in the geneticnature of these things but I firmly hold women atleast equally responsible for how fucked up I am and hw fucked up men are

all of you bitching about hw men over here and out in the world freak you t and make you feel unsafe... I am here to tell you that weall deserve this shit

you deserve to live in this scary world and i deserve my isolation.

[–]Xeltar1 point 1 year ago [recovered] | Copy Link

having your role defied as fighting and dying for your country is not male disposability?

I mean, disposability implies not valuable. And that just wasn't true. The State loved having more young men since they were so much more useful than women.

that's a side effect of economics power being concentrated among men. preferentially raising boys was to ensure the sustainanceof wealth in the family.

Yes, because men were not disposable, they drove the economy and provided all the taxes and wealth for the State.

tats the nature f ideals meeting reality. fact remains that in the ideals women and children are meant to beprotected while men are supposed to oe that ideal a reality with their lies

"Benevolent" sexism rarely was to women's benefit either. You hear all the time of "women and children first" but the Titanic was an exception. In reality, the majority male crews had the highest survival rates on sinking ships - simply because they know where the lifeboats are!

all of you bitching about hw men over here and out in the world freak you t and make you feel unsafe... I am here to tell you that weall deserve this shit

Men are not set up for success in our society, but when I point that out, none of them are willing to change. What can I even do beyond that?

"You should care more about your safety and your health".

"You can't make me!"

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Danger for women doesn't mean danger for men.

Really? It's a good thing that the previous commenter supplied you with enough counterexamples. And that only happened to him. Now imagine countless other men and countless other similar situations.

And btw, if a man doesn't follow a woman home or to the nearest cab, he incurs 0 danger to his wellbeing. If he does follow her home or to the cab, the danger isn't 0 anymore. And the danger for her is significantly lessened.

For example in some cities I don't go out late and all my male friends had late night walks without a second thought.

But you can walk without a second thought as well. It's your choice not to go out. Just based on pure stats, every man that you claim "walks late at night without a second thought" is statistically in far more danger than a woman in a similar situation.

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Typical comment from people with no experience of violence on the street. You don't "just get beaten up." Getting your head kicked while down can lead to brain injuries and death. Stabbings are common too if you can fight back.

I have once lived in a country where gun proliferation was common. And getting into fights was even more stupid.

All men are not equal fighters, never will be. I am not going to compare this to rape. Because there is no value in comparing these things. Both are bad, and both are tragic.

At the end of the day, all people have equal value. Saying men should risk their lives, in the modern age, where their chances of actually pulling it off are miniscule, shows that men have less value, so they should put themselves in danger for the safety of women, but never the other way around.

I agree, for example, with the idea of staying in groups, because ots safer. But the minute a guy has to walk a girl, then walk back alone. He is risking his safety for another.

That is not societal equality. That is brainwashing men for the benefit of women.

Women are not doing anything for men that would return that favour. Not that I am asking women to do anything, just stating a fact.

There is a disparity, and in an age where these disparities are considered toxic. So should this one.

I personally did grow up and internalised the idea that my life was less valuable than my female aquintances, friends, family, and lovers. That doesn't mean I can't question those beliefs.

Especially when I have observed those same women never stand up for me, against other women. I have had racial stereotypes thrown at me, and my partners and female friends have never said anything back. Because they don't want to risk their social standing for me. Which I would have expected, in fact, I thought, maybe incorrectly. That was the social contract. Women protect their men against other women when facing social ostracisesation by other women. While I step up to physically protect them from other men.

That was what got me to question the whole narrative.

The social narrative is so intrenched that I would still risk my life. Because I am used to it. Yet questioning it creates so much pushback from women. They start to attack your morals and manhood. I find that fascinating and enlightening.

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[–]fakingandnotmakingitPurple Pill Woman 48 points49 points50 points 1 year ago (37 children) | Copy Link

Define good guy behavior?

I expect common decency from everyone, including myself regardless of whether they're attracted to me or not.

I'm not going to take away the rights of people regardless of whether they're nice to me or not.

Because I believe human rights are human rights. Like I've never met a Palestinian, I still think they deserve human rights and to not be genocided.

Way I see it either men are human beings and should be held to the standards of common decency or men are inherently bad people.

If men are human beings then yes I expect them to not be hurting people, taking away rights or attacking women just because they don't have a relationship

If men are evil by default and will rape, hurt or take away rights because they can't get a girl, then the radical kill all men feminists were right.

So which is it?

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As someone rightly said here

Too many women expect to be supported (on the abortion question) "because its the right thing to do."

...despite the fact that, everywhere you look in politics, when you want to assemble a coalition to work together to achieve a policy aim, you must appeal to the self-interest of every separate faction. And everyone accepts this. Except for one sex, which is condemned for even considering their own interests.

Everyone - of both sexes - is entitled to the following things from others:

Nonaggression and respect of their individual rights, and

Basic civility and decency (contingent upon reciprocation)

But no one is entitled to other people's altruism. And just as men are not owed access to women's bodies, women are not owed the fruits of men's labor. And women certainly are not owed men's absolute abject selflessness or unreciprocated anything. Huge parts of the social contract - any social contract - are built on reciprocity.

[–]fakingandnotmakingitPurple Pill Woman 34 points35 points36 points 1 year ago (21 children) | Copy Link

The question is what people expect by "reciprocity"

I don't expect abject selflessness at all.

We should pay taxes.

We all should all follow the law.

We should all treat each other with respect and decency.

We should all contribute to society (if able bodied) either through through income or through caring for the sick, elderly or children.

Except in online spaces men don't want this reciprocity at all. Men want women's bodies.

Men online claim that the social contract is "men taxes and work, women have relationships and sex with me and have my babies".

If men claim that women should pay taxes as part of the social contract then sure, that's reciprocity

If men claim that women should be required to participate in the draft, then that counts as reciprocity. (Let the military and higher ups figure out the logistics of that )

And yet... The entire debate is "I will hurt you because you won't date me".

That's not reciprocity at all. That's entitlement.

And I'd note for the record that many men also expect women to be completely selfless. That's what they expected for generations. Women aren't women anymore because we aren't waiting on men hand and foot.

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The fact that men earn more on average is a sign of yet another sacrifice that men make for the sake of women or at least of pleasing women

So pick another job. Be a teacher or a social worker.

I'm sorry but your career path, whichever it is that you chose, isn't a sacrifice you make for a woman. That's a choice you made for yourself, probably when you were 18.

It's not just income here though, is is it. Look at bias towards the primary caregiver in terms of how physical custody is handled in a divorce.

And that should change.

Interestingly I rarely see men actively try and change this and make 50/50 the default unless a parent is declared unfit.

Instead it only comes up as a gotcha when women want to have an abortion or when women don't want to have sex or relationships with them.

Why isn't there a stronger focus on fixing this instead of sex, sex, sex, alpha men, sex,sex ,sex 80/20, sex,sex, sex have a relationship with me!, sex,sed,sex, BUT CHAAD?!

[–]username_6916Purple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm sorry but your career path, whichever it is that you chose, isn't a sacrifice you make for a woman. That's a choice you made for yourself, probably when you were 18.

Yes it is. When I was 18 a part of why I studied what I did and a part of why I continued despite the pain and difficulty of getting my degree and a part of why I forced myself to go to work every day even when I was completely miserable. The whole pay off here was to provide for a wife and family.

Instead it only comes up as a gotcha when women want to have an abortion or when women don't want to have sex or relationships with them.

Is there any way to argue this in the context of divorce that would draw this response? Because this is deeply tied to divorce and how it destroys the family unit and many of the mutually beneficial transactions therein.

Why isn't there a stronger focus on fixing this instead of sex, sex, sex, alpha men, sex,sex ,sex 80/20, sex,sex, sex have a relationship with me!, sex,sed,sex, BUT CHAAD?!

Perhaps that has something to do with the subject matter of this specific forum?

Perhaps young men really are struggling that much to find romantic partnership in the first place, and thus are never in the latter situation of having a divorce to begin with?

[–]fakingandnotmakingitPurple Pill Woman 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Yes it is. When I was 18 a part of why I studied what I did and a part of why I continued despite the pain and difficulty of getting my degree and a part of why I forced myself to go to work every day even when I was completely miserable. The whole pay off here was to provide for a wife and family

Then that seems to be a you problem. You made choices in which your entire path is about "winning a woman" at the end.

If a woman went out specifically to just get a man to exclusion of her own happiness, failed, and then threw a fit about it, seems like a her problem not a man problem

Is there any way to argue this in the context of divorce that would draw this response? Because this is deeply tied to divorce and how it destroys the family unit and many of the mutually beneficial transactions therein.

A family unit for transactions seems like a nightmare.

I'm not spending my life with a man who doesn't make me happier in a relationship than I was when I was single because of a "mutual beneficial transaction"

A marriage isn't a transaction. It's a partnership that should make us both happier. And to make me happier in a couple than as a single the man has to be someone who specifically fits my values (no gender roles, not religious, supports LGBT+ rights, not conservative) and who fits into my lifestyle, and who I have emotional connection with.

And that's the minimum. He still has to be compatible in other ways. Like for example, not being a huge spender, having a family that I get along with (either I get along with your parents or they're not involved in your life. I'm not dealing with bad in-laws.)

Perhaps that has something to do with the subject matter of this specific forum?

Most of the manosphere and men's rights subs focus on "I hate wahmen" as opposed to you know actual action on things like equal custody

It's like how male rape is never brought up and I very rarely seen men's rights activists actually try and get female on male rape more criminalised and destigmatized.

But men do love to bring it up when women are scared of rape though.

Perhaps young men really are struggling that much to find romantic partnership in the first place, and thus are never in the latter situation of having a divorce to begin with?

And so they scream about Chad and tell women they should be tradwives and be happy with being under the control of the man.

[–]username_6916Purple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Then that seems to be a you problem. You made choices in which your entire path is about "winning a woman" at the end.

If a woman went out specifically to just get a man to exclusion of her own happiness, failed, and then threw a fit about it, seems like a her problem not a man problem

Does this apply to a woman complaining that her male partner doesn't do enough housework? Or is that somehow a societal issue here?

A family unit for transactions seems like a nightmare.

All relationships are transactional. Even among family. That's human nature. That's just the way it is.

The difference between near and far is the currency transactions are conducted in. When you have a high degree of trust and knowledge of people and genuinely care about their best interests, good feelings and favors become worth every bit as much as physical assets and wealth in a way that's just not true with our relationship with the broader world.

I'm not spending my life with a man who doesn't make me happier in a relationship than I was when I was single because of a "mutual beneficial transaction"

That would imply that the transaction in question isn't beneficial enough for you, not that the alternative isn't a transaction. Is someone making you happy something you value? Is it something you're willing to invest time and effort into? Then, yes it's a transaction.

A marriage isn't a transaction. It's a partnership that should make us both happier.

Nearly all transactions are partnerships that make both people happier. You spending a couple of bucks on ebay for an item you want is a partnership between you, the seller, the shipper, Ebay and the payment processor that makes everyone involved happier. It just only lasts for that single exchange.

Yes, there's differences. because the transaction only lasts a single exchange, we're can't count on future reciprocity. Thus, we need cash upfront when dealing with the broader world. In a marriage or friendship the debt is still there, it's just not necessarily paid in cash. In an ongoing relationship you know that eventually they'll get your back too.

having a family that I get along with (either I get along with your parents or they're not involved in your life. I'm not dealing with bad in-laws.)

He has to cut off his family because you don't like them? I get that you might not want to deal with them and that's fair enough. But demanding he go no contact seems a bit controlling to me.

Most of the manosphere and men's rights subs focus on "I hate wahmen" as opposed to you know actual action on things like equal custody

It's like how male rape is never brought up and I very rarely seen men's rights activists actually try and get female on male rape more criminalised and destigmatized.

And how much feminist discourse is "Men bad" again?

When you're talking about issues with relationships between the genders, of course the talking points related to issues with the relationship between the genders are going to come up.

And so they scream about Chad and tell women they should be tradwives and be happy with being under the control of the man.

And... This would imply what? I'm not sure I follow here.

[–]fakingandnotmakingit1 point 1 year ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Does this apply to a woman complaining that her male partner doesn't do enough housework? Or is that somehow a societal issue here?

If she spent her whole life trying to get a man, choosing her career path specifically for a man then yes

And honestly I am a big advocate for breaking up with a man if he isn't up to snuff on that too.

Would be much easier if women walked away from relationships where thean doesn't pull his weight.

In a marriage or friendship the debt is still there, it's just not necessarily paid in cash. In an ongoing relationship you know that eventually they'll get your back too

Only if they're compatible and willing to grow with you. If he's willing to have you in a permanent state of tolerable unhappiness then divorce is the answer

He has to cut off his family because you don't like them? I get that you might not want to deal with them and that's fair enough. But demanding he go no contact seems a bit controlling to me.

Not controlling. It's a boundary. If your family is overbearing, or toxic, or racist, or sexist I don't want to deal with them. Ever. But unless they live on the other side of the world you will have to deal with them. Birthdays, holidays, etc. so no, I don't want to deal with those.

I'm a woman of colour with an accent. Some friends got with people who have racist in laws and I ain't dealing with that. Some people ended up with other people of our ethnic group who subscribe to traditional stuff like women cleaning and stuff. I refuse to deal with that too

Not to mention if we have kids, they'd be exposed to that and I refuse.

And how much feminist discourse is "Men bad" again?

When you're talking about issues with relationships between the genders, of course the talking points related to issues with the relationship between the genders are going to come up.

And feminist discourse doesn't focus on making men date women they don't want. They talk about decentering men from your life, seeking out only men who don't stress you out, advocating for removing harassment and sexual assault etc

Men seem to only give a shit about relationships.

[–]XeltarBlue Pill Woman 6 points7 points8 points 1 year ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]username_6916Purple Pill Man -2 points-1 points0 points 1 year ago (1 child) | Copy Link

How is this a sacrifice?? I'd gladly volunteer as tribute here to be paid more.

Then what are you doing here? Clearly there's someone that would pay something for the time you're posing on Reddit. Get a second job, work more hours and you'll have more income.

That additional income comes at a cost, be it time, physical danger and discomfort, stability, investment or risk. It's fair enough to say you don't want to bare that cost for the additional income. You're not the one asked to provide a living for your potential romantic partners. I am.

But more often than not the mother is more involved in their child's life so mothers getting custody more often is expected.

This is exactly the bias I'm referring to. Divorce changes the arrangement and we shouldn't assume that because the mother was 'more involved' in some aspects of a child's life before the divorce that she should have primary physical custody.

50/50 child sharing as default is becoming more and more common though so that is progress.

Over the bitter objection of feminists and ever so slowly, kinda.

[–]XeltarBlue Pill Woman 6 points7 points8 points 1 year ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Then what are you doing here? Clearly there's someone that would pay something for the time you're posing on Reddit. Get a second job, work more hours and you'll have more income.

Men don't have to do that either. But choosing to do things for more income is not a "sacrifice". Unless we're talking about people who can't make ends meet... but at that point it's not a sacrifice since our society often requires you to work to live for everyone. Like you need to pay your mortgage/rent, health insurance, maintain your car even without a family.

I've always made more than my partners, sometimes significantly more so just due to career choice, it really depends on your social circle whether this is an expectation. Trad women certainly do but like don't go for them if your values don't align.

This is exactly the bias I'm referring to. Divorce changes the arrangement and we shouldn't assume that because the mother was 'more involved' in some aspects of a child's life before the divorce that she should have primary physical custody.

I mean how else should it be handled? Courts make their best determination looking at all the facts of the matter. Certainly if one parent has invested a lot more time and effort into the child... then it makes sense to advantage them for custody.

Over the bitter objection of feminists and ever so slowly, kinda.

I've not seen many feminists against this. Feminists are also the ones pushing to include women on selective service so many are consistent with wanting equality.

[–]ASnowfallOfCherry 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]One-Camp-110Purple Pill Man -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

it's the best way in my opinion as a lvm to live.

I am terrified of reaching my end and sobbing in my bed wondering what was so grotesque about me that was never good enough.

To avoid that i choose to be scum. I choose to hate women.

Why would I do that? I don't belive I can be better. No woman in the world is worth the effort thatyou expect me to put into becoming someone worthy of being loved. Especially since I have seen a rapist my social group find sex love and family as if it was nbd.

clearly the rapist is a better man than me who stood against him. him being sucessful despite being a scumbag and me failing despite.... not being a rapist.

By becoming a terrible human being I don't have to besadanymore

I can look at thepace beside me 28 years from now, face my end and chuckle " Ofcourse I was alone. i was such an asshole"

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[–]SadgueAll men are angels pill[S] -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago (30 children) | Copy Link

[–]Realistic-Ad-1023Blue Pill Woman - Purple in Certain Lights 36 points37 points38 points 1 year ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]SadgueAll men are angels pill[S] -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Realistic-Ad-1023Blue Pill Woman - Purple in Certain Lights 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago (0 children) | Copy Link

But you have the same desire for gay men as women have for anyone they’re not attracted to. Women just won’t sleep with someone because “doesn’t matter had sex.” We don’t have that. So the best comparison for “someone you’d turn down with sex, even if they were really nice” is gay men.

You’re trying to equate not getting sex with who you deem your “looks match” to not having rights or personhood. The ability to vote, access to healthcare, jobs, education. They’re not even a little bit comparable. A partner is something you can find. No one is stopping you. There are no systems in place barring you from access to the potential to finding a partner.

A better comparison is someone who never graduated high school crying that they’ll never be hired as an astronaut by nasa. You have access to other jobs. (Women on your level.) You can go to school. (Get fit, charismatic, rich) but without the work, you aren’t going to be hired by one of the most sought after employers in the country. And you can say “but muh genes!!” Yeah. And some people are born with a low iq. They aren’t given a job at nasa just because we feel bad for them.

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[–]SadgueAll men are angels pill[S] 5 points6 points7 points 1 year ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]Organic-Reading-1813Purple Pill Man 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago (24 children) | Copy Link

You took it to the extreme in order to defeat the argument, which is pretty dishonest.

I think OP was saying men won’t treat you BETTER than decent, meaning with privilege. And OP has a point. This is the crux of the entire red pill/blue pill/purple pill divide.

You want to be treated like a human being when it’s convenient, and also with privilege when it’s convenient. You want the best of both worlds.

I don’t owe it to every woman to open their doors. You aren’t owed a job or a career because you’re a woman. I’m not going to throw my life away to save you and children for no reason.

But my wife? My girlfriend? My sister? My mother? They’re owed all of that and more FROM ME by virtue of who they are TO ME.

A lot of men are disenchanted and disenfranchised, but ironically that’s where women’s privilege flowed from in the first place….

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[–]Lemon_geckoWoman, poly, somewhat blue 23 points24 points25 points 1 year ago (9 children) | Copy Link

I never asked men to treat me better than decent, but i do ask men to treat me with basic human decency and manners all the time. I don’t know about you but i also have basic empathy included in my decency. Like i don’t want people to be killed, or raped, or anything. I don’t want them NOT to have access to necessary medical care. I could go on. I don’t think about their attractiveness or what will i get to want it for them. This just basic. I’m not american, i’m not really eager to go there, so chances of me living in the us are really low, i’m straight, and probably will not meet many americans in my life, and yet when some states banned abortion i sympathised with women there. That’s just basic. I read sometimes what people venting about, and I don’t need to know how a guy looks to sympathise for him losing a job or having hard time.

[+]Organic-Reading-1813Purple Pill Man -10 points-9 points-8 points 1 year ago (8 children) | Copy Link

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[+]SadgueAll men are angels pill[S] -10 points-9 points-8 points 1 year ago (35 children) | Copy Link

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[+]YetAnotherCommenterDark Purple Pill Man, Sexual Economics Theory -7 points-6 points-5 points 1 year ago (6 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Soft-Neat8117Autistic Purple Pill Man -1 points0 points1 point 1 year ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Luminous_Face_42No Pill [score hidden] 1 year ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Why do y'all think the only reason to be kind or empathetic is to someone you have sex with?

I don't think that's the point. I think the point is for incel men that they feel a lack of social connection to society and in return they refuse to offer empathy and goodness.

Imagine there's a big party everyone is having and you were never invited to but desperately (by your very biology) wish to be at. You live next door. You can hear the laughter and cheering. Smell the good food. At times even feel the music pumping in the air.

A party-goer asks you if they can park in your driveway because it's close by and the other spots are taken. Why would you let them? Besides, you read in the paper last week that some of the party-goers made fun of the people like you who couldn't get into the party. They called you bitter and insulted aspects of yourself you can never change. You put on the radio and most of the songs are about the party. You flip on the TV and the news is talking about a new study that says there's this thing related to the party -- that always involves going to the party at least -- but is the height of human experience (love). But you gotta get into the party first. You decide to take a walk in the woods on the path your city built and you see so many couples in their party clothes, experiencing that thing, which all good art and literature and music seems to be about, that involves being at the party sometimes. They're glowing.

Anyway, you snap out of it. Back on your porch. The music is bumping louder. You tell the car in your driveway they gotta leave. They call you a loser and peel out.

Makes sense to me!

The greatest irony of all this is empathy is being discussed but literally nobody gives a single fuck about a growing contingent of men who never experience sex or love. Not a single fuck given. Even Contrapoints pointed this out in her Incel video.

[–]ThatBitchAPromiscuous Woman 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago (3 children) | Copy Link

they feel a lack of social connection to society

That doesn't come from sex though. It comes from being involved with society.

Imagine there's a big party everyone is having and you were never invited to but desperately (by your very biology) wish to be at. You live next door. You can hear the laughter and cheering. Smell the good food. At times even feel the music pumping in the air.

Biology makes one desperate to attend a party? That's a new one.

Why not make plans with your friends?

you read in the paper last week that some of the party-goers made fun of the people like you who couldn't get into the party

Where do you live? What kind of town or party is this?

Idk man. Go make your own party. Or maybe make friends with the neighbors before they have a party and you'll be invited.

[–]Luminous_Face_42 1 year ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

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Too many women expect to be supported "because its the right thing to do."

...despite the fact that, everywhere you look in politics, when you want to assemble a coalition to work together to achieve a policy aim, you must appeal to the self-interest of every separate faction. And everyone accepts this. Except for one sex, which is condemned for even considering their own interests.

Everyone - of both sexes - is entitled to the following things from others:

Nonaggression and respect of their individual rights, and

Basic civility and decency (contingent upon reciprocation)

But no one is entitled to other people's altruism. And just as men are not owed access to women's bodies, women are not owed the fruits of men's labor. And women certainly are not owed men's absolute abject selflessness or unreciprocated anything. Huge parts of the social contract - any social contract - are built on reciprocity.

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Women expect men to just treat them as humans instead of prey or a candy bar.

How is it so difficult for the guys around here to see women as people instead of gratification objects? I dont go out of my way to harass, threaten, assault people. I think everyone deserves the right to a peaceful life and pursue their own happiness. But my own happiness doesn't come at the sacrifice of other people's. We live in a society where we do our jobs to earn money and pay rent and have food. We work for what we want. I dont just get rewarded for wanting something. If I want something I have to take action. That action doesn't come with the threat of "if you dont give me what I want i won't treat you like a human and I will take away your right to autonomy and safety". I dont just go around and pester men to give me what I want.

How is it so difficult for you guys to have human empathy without having to be rewarded for it with sex from women?

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Again. You can vote whoever you want. Nobody is stopping you. That doesn't mean you get a reward or that others will like you for who you vote. You have a right to exercise your voting rights. You don't have a right to be liked for it. Same with like abortions. I want to have the right to exercise control over my own body. You dont have to like me for it but it doesn't affect you.

The whole "men are the defenders" is mostly said by men and they are doing that to scare women because men are also the thing women need protection from. If men would leave women alone nobody would have to defend anyone. The dropping someone off is weird - I do that for men too. Thats again just human decency. Im currently driving my landlady to physical therapy twice a week. I dont expect anything in return for that. Im just being a good person.

If you dont want to have female friends nobody is forcing you to. You can just leave women alone if you dont want to be a friend without expecting to be rewarded by sex.

If the only reason you are kind to someone is because you want sex as a reward you arent kind.

My friends receive the same treatment I receive from them. I listen to them. I talk. I do things for them. They don't get sex just because they are my friends.

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Jfc…talk about sociopathy. Why should people expect empathy without reward? You never extend a simple kindness to another human being unless they suck you off on the regular?

Should we have empathy for billionaires? Well did something horrible happen to them? Of course, losing 10m isn’t that horrible when you have 400m, but if their kid has cancer, or even if they are wrongly accused of a crime? Yes, I definitely have empathy because I’m not a sociopath. And being a billionaire doesn’t preclude having horrible things happen in your life.

You don’t have to empathize with Stacy because Chad didn’t call. That’s like feeling sorry for a billionaire losing a few million. If Stacy is getting stalked by some weirdo or forced to give birth,then yes…empathy is still expected by society in general.

[–]FlightlessbirbzPurple Pill Woman 4 points5 points6 points 1 year ago (4 children) | Copy Link

First we have to define what you think “empathy” and “good guy behavior” is. I expect basic decency from every person regardless of gender. I also expect people to care in a general sense about the rights of strangers who aren’t going have sex with them, because I do. Gay men are not going to have sex with me by definition, yet I still am going to support their rights to marry and adopt because that’s a matter of morality. As someone else mentioned, don’t even know any Palestinian people, still care about their human rights because they are people.

But if you’re speaking of empathy and “good guy behavior” in the sense of deeply caring about someone’s personal problems (not their human rights issues), no, I only expect that from my partner, family, and friends. And I’ve noticed it tends to be men here, not women, who want internet strangers to show “empathy” in the sense of caring about their personal problems. Women only tend to ask for empathy from strange men in the sense of “if you don’t like us, leave us alone.”

[–]username_6916Purple Pill Man 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago (3 children) | Copy Link

This has a tendency to turn into "All of your problems are personal problems and all of mine are human rights issues". For example, feminists going on about how "Manspreading" gets called a human rights issue while men wanting to castrate themselves because they're so terrified of talking to women out of sexual desire because of feminist vilification gets called a personal issue.

Women only tend to ask for empathy from strange men in the sense of “if you don’t like us, leave us alone.”

I don't think that's actually the case though. The "leave us alone" usually includes maintaining some degree of female privilege. "Leave us alone" means cross to the other side of the street so as to not make us feel afraid at night. It means be willing to work harder and pay more in taxes to pay for social welfare programs that primarily benefit women. It means being denied due process rights and the presumption of innocence so that women can feel more comfortable. It involves a demand good deal of sacrifice, up to and including my life to protect women from physical danger.

[–]FlightlessbirbzPurple Pill Woman 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I’m not talking about things like “manspreading” here. It’s perhaps a mildly interesting cultural discussion, but it’s not a human rights issue (to me at least, can’t speak for all feminists here). I also do not mean “leave us alone” in the sense of “oh no it’s a woman, gotta cross the street so she isn’t afraid.” I mean don’t harass women, don’t date or “befriend” women if you can’t show basic decency and respect, and don’t try to legislate away other people’s rights just because you may not have access to their bodies. Because as I mentioned before, I support the rights of people whose bodies I do not have access to… this is not even a consideration for me when considering such issues.

The only time I expect a man to work harder than a woman (outside the home) is if he wants a woman to do most of the parenting and/or household responsibilities. Due process and presumption of innocence is a cornerstone of our legal system, and I don’t think that should depend on gender. I don’t think that men should be expected to physically protect strange women in a way that might endanger them, unless they have chosen the job of a first responder. (However, it’s worth noting that women often will do this for each other.)

[–]username_6916Purple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I also do not mean “leave us alone” in the sense of “oh no it’s a woman, gotta cross the street so she isn’t afraid.” I mean don’t harass women, don’t date or “befriend” women if you can’t show basic decency and respect,

Why the scare quotes around 'befriend'?

What is your definition of 'basic decency and respect'? Is it the same when directed at both men and women?

don’t try to legislate away other people’s rights just because you may not have access to their bodies.

Is anyone actually doing this? Beyond some internet trolls and shock jocks, I mean.

Because as I mentioned before, I support the rights of people whose bodies I do not have access to… this is not even a consideration for me when considering such issues.

If we're talking about the same kind of rights I have, sure. Life, liberty, property, that kind of thing. But a have a suspicion that the rights in question extend beyond that.

Due process and presumption of innocence is a cornerstone of our legal system, and I don’t think that should depend on gender.

I think it goes deeper than that, these are cultural values not just aspects of the legal system. The idea that the accuser has to prove the accused's guilt is in conflict the #meToo people shouting "Believe women".

[–]FlightlessbirbzPurple Pill Woman 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Why the scare quotes around ‘befriend’?

Because some men will try to befriend women they’re hoping to date, wait forever/never make a move, and be upset when they only see them as a friend. Lots of men have female friends they just see as friends, but these aren’t the men I’m talking about here.

Is it the same when directed at both men and women?

Yes.

Is anyone actually trying to do this?

There is a growing sentiment, including this post and others like it here, that men shouldn’t care about women’s rights if they aren’t getting laid. Or even that women’s rights are the reason men aren’t getting laid and therefore we need legislation to change that. The blame for everything from low birth rates, to male loneliness, to unemployment always has to fall on feminism for giving women the option not to be a baby machine. Women’s rights aren’t framed as fundamental and inalienable, but an optional privilege dependent on “societal benefit.” Of course one cannot always tell when someone’s trolling if it’s subtle, but this isn’t isolated.

Life, liberty, property

These are exactly the rights I’m talking about. In the past, women could not own property, which effectively also takes away one’s liberty. There is no way to “restructure” society in a way that punishes women for not marrying men they don’t want or popping out babies that doesn’t infringe on liberty. The one thing that can’t be the same for men and women is reproductive rights since men cannot get pregnant, but no doubt if they could, there’d be as many abortion clinics as convenience stores.

these are cultural values

There is no cultural presumption of innocence, for men or women, right or wrong. People are going to think what they think. If a child dies, people will grab the pitchforks and blame the mom whether she was responsible or not. Due process exists to prevent innocent people from going to prison, but it cannot and has never controlled public opinion.

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I am talking in a monogamous relationship though. I said "more men" because I assumed you meant your post as "for a majority of relationships" therefore "for a majority of men". My comment is really not about reasonable risks of having casual sex a lot as a woman (which with an IUD is like... only STDs, which men also get, so it doesn't make sense to be more scared), and frankly benefiting from benevolent patriarchy just makes me feel guilty/useless and I want to get as far away from it as possible. It's just about my relationship to my body. Somehow, even with my man, even with the garantee that there's not going to be a conception out of it, doing anything with that hole especially sex just makes my brain shortcircuit and say NO. I would be funny. Even penetrative masturbation is off limits for my brain somehow. I don't know why my body so wants to forget a whole body part's existence, since you'd THINK it would actually cherish that body part no ?

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I don't really know ? With all the anti-feminist discourse going on, it always seemed to me as if men are more happy when women don't try so hard to be useful and just stay in their place. As if trying to be helpful just made you a nuisance, so not trying is best. It's stupid to think this way, I know, and I know there's also an underlying sense of "feminism is just women wanting to bury men in the dirt" thing, but I always kinda just attributed the man-hating sentiment to Tiktok feminism. When I look at what real life feminism actually enables me to do for others and to become in practice, I don't think I'd ever be able to live as more than a selfish prick without its existence. So it makes me ultra-confused on this whole thing, and generally when I try to get answers as to what people even mean by feminism and what do they like/hate about it, I'm either taken as a man-abuser or a mysogynist. Honestly I've kinda accepted the "evil feminist" role, I just wanna know why it's so evil.

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[–]YetAnotherCommenterDark Purple Pill Man, Sexual Economics Theory 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I was absolutely going to make a thread like this, albeit as a debate.

Some women absolutely feel truly entitled to men's altruism (i.e. prosocial conduct that benefits them at the expense of the man providing the conduct.. or at least without the man experiencing or hoping for any consequential benefit from the conduct).

I'm currently having a discussion in another thread where the abortion question comes up. And again, far too many women are just hostile in principle to providing a reason to men for why they, as men, would benefit from keeping abortion legal. Too many women expect to be supported (on the abortion question) "because its the right thing to do."

...despite the fact that, everywhere you look in politics, when you want to assemble a coalition to work together to achieve a policy aim, you must appeal to the self-interest of every separate faction. And everyone accepts this. Except for one sex, which is condemned for even considering their own interests.

Everyone - of both sexes - is entitled to the following things from others:

Nonaggression and respect of their individual rights, and
Basic civility and decency (contingent upon reciprocation)

But no one is entitled to other people's altruism. And just as men are not owed access to women's bodies, women are not owed the fruits of men's labor. And women certainly are not owed men's absolute abject selflessness or unreciprocated anything. Huge parts of the social contract - any social contract - are built on reciprocity.

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[–]YetAnotherCommenterDark Purple Pill Man, Sexual Economics Theory -4 points-3 points-2 points 1 year ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Should you only support gay rights if it benefits you?

As a bisexual, yes, I would argue that it is in the interests of heterosexuals to support the rights of sexual minorities. Sexual liberation benefits straight people, getting the government out of the bedroom benefits everyone's civil liberties (including straight people into BDSM etc), and since straight people often have sexual minority family members, the interests of your family members are part of your own interests.

I'm against religious people being persecuted because of their religion. I'm not religious, it doesn't benefit me.

I'm in the same boat. However, it does benefit you by fostering important legal and cultural norms of state religious neutrality and the state avoiding viewpoint discrimination. Investing in the maintenance of classically liberal institutions protects your rights, too.

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As a man, yes we should all expect everyone to be good. This is a basic human trait and you should not expect to be rewarded with sex or love.

Marcus Aurelius wrote the following in his Meditations:

"And what is there that is evil or strange about an obscene man doing what is just such a man's? Rather, you should reproach yourself for not having expected him to do so. Your reason gives you reason enough to think that it is probable that he will transgress in this way, and now, because you do not listen to what it tells you, you are surprised that he has transgressed! So every time you accuse someone of unfaithfulness or ingratitude, look inside yourself. For it is obviously your fault if you put your trust in a person of such a character or if you do him a favor with all kinds of secondary intentions and without seeking the reward of your actions only in the actions themselves.

What more do you want when you have done good to a man? Is it not enough that you have acted according to your nature? Do you strive for a special reward? As if the eye demanded payment for seeing, and the feet for walking! And just as the eye and the foot are created to do their part in the fulfillment of their natural functions, so man, created to do good, whenever he has done a good work and somehow helped others outwardly, has only done what he was meant to do and receives his part in it"

The key here is to be good not just as a performance but in your heart as well. You need to be authentically kind and understanding at a very deep level and this takes a lot of self development and learning and pain.

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Title	Why do women expect empathy and a good guy behavior from "undesirable" guys?
Author	Sadgue
Upvotes	82
Comments	412
Date	August 5, 2025 3:35 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1mhynoe/why_do_women_expect_empathy_and_a_good_guy/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-do-women-expect-empathy-and-a-good-guy.1558905 https://theredarchive.com/post/1558905

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