How can I make this about meeeeeee?

aspankdmonkey · 2012-12-12T19:45:04+00:00

Everyone is a victim in war.

Stratisphear · 2012-12-12T19:12:50+00:00

[permanently deleted]

AugustBurning · 2012-12-12T19:40:08+00:00

I think this dead horse has been beaten quite enough, in all honesty.

geodebug · 2012-12-12T21:33:33+00:00

This makes me laugh every time MR reopens this same can of worms.

You don't judge someone by one turn of phrase out of context. That's Fox Newsy and I don't respect it. It's not intellectually honest.

HRC has positives and negatives as a politician/person, like anybody. Taken into context she's not saying men are worth less than women but she was addressing women at a conference about the costs of war and the toll on women historically: rape, dealing with the hardships of surviving without a husband/breadwinner.

Honestly, dumbing down the issue to a phrase and then raging on it reminds me of the dumbass chain letters I get from the Tea Party members of my family: OMG Obama said we didn't build this!!!!!!

Be smarter than this MR, please?

I'm not saying don't criticize HRC's views/actions (there's plenty to not like). I'm saying do it with intelligence and honesty.

KingN · 2012-12-12T19:20:50+00:00

The rest of the quote: "Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat"

Makes me rage, man

theskepticalidealist · 2012-12-12T18:55:44+00:00

And people defend the quote too, just look it up.

Biggie39 · 2012-12-13T01:21:10+00:00

As someone who has been to war, and not paid the ultimate price, I can say my mother took far more mental and emotional hits than I did. This is a terrible simplification, but yes women, the ones that care and love us take a huge hit during war. It sucked for me to but my mother and sisters and girlfriend seem to have carried the burden farther, it is not always men vs. women, war sucks for everyone. There is no need to trivialize one experience over another.

LucasTrask · 2012-12-12T20:27:17+00:00

Says the woman who voted for Iraq War. Over 4000 American soldiers dead. Over 30,000 wounded.

leesoutherst · 2012-12-12T21:19:48+00:00

In no way do I agree with her, but I will say that my Grandpa thought the war was the best time of his life. He said he never thought about getting killed much because it would be someone else's problem if he was.

Belvyzep · 2012-12-13T02:16:34+00:00

Could we please not use dead soldiers to make political statements?

GltyUntlPrvnInncnt · 2012-12-13T15:14:39+00:00

I didn't go through all the comments, but in my opinion it seems like her thought process goes a little something like this; It's easy to die for your country (you'll probably never even know what happened to you), the harder part is to be left behind and have to mourn for your loved ones.

Which to me is pretty unbelievable to be honest. She doesn't seem to have any touch with reality.

ins_conundrum · 2012-12-12T22:48:23+00:00

Here is the entire speech, to put the quote in context. Please note that at the time the U.S. was not at war, and Clinton was not referring to American soldiers (as is implied in the photo). She was speaking at a domestic violence conference in El Salvador, which had recently experienced more than a decade of civil war.

automatedresponse · 2012-12-12T22:01:15+00:00

I contribute to this subreddit a lot and enjoy it.. but this post and the picture are fairly ignorant.

Yes.. men largely make up the working armies of of nations these days. And yes, when people in those ARMIES (which are volunteer now in our country) die they are men.

The point that the quote is trying to make is that largely, those who die who are not in an army, i-e. civilians, tend to be women and children. This is fairly factual.

We've had upwards of 3000+ troops, some of which were women, die in the "war on terror". Due to our involvement in Iraqi up to 100,000 + people have died. http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

The majority of these would be women and children.

This is mostly true of every major war since the first world war. Invading armies rape and kill the the weak.

At any rate, posting stuff like this isn't very intelligent.

rogue780 · 2012-12-13T01:41:39+00:00

Please do this in another way where you don't show dead service members in their caskets. It is distasteful to use such an image for a political or ideological agenda.

TheDonkeyKongDon · 2012-12-12T20:33:34+00:00

FUCK HILLARY CLINTON. I served in Iraq loading planes. When Hillary came to make her visit, she decided she didn't want any HRs ( human remains) riding along with her little fucking tea party. Luckily my master sgt wasn't about to take that shit as the remains of an american soldier have first priority when returning to the states and put that bitch in her place. Gets my blood boiling to think about that shit again.

KellogedIn · 2012-12-13T01:13:18+00:00

It isn't fair to take this quote and make it a "mens rights" issue. She is drawing attention to the enormous amount of women that are victims of war rape and mutilation. In all the wars, not just the couple America is involved in.

OutstandingWarrant · 2012-12-13T03:20:36+00:00

I've seen this picture and heard the anger from this subreddit a lot over the past week or so and every time I see it i can't shake my own thoughts which I have never shared.

The only way that this can be thought of as true is if we believe that the man who was killed as already lost everything he can lose.

The women and children effected may never be able to let go of the fact that he is dead and that will effect them much longer than the fact that the man has lost his life, which may have been instantaneous (hopefully).

Of course she leaves out all the sons and fathers who have lost their son or father. Or friends who have lost friends.

The long short of it is that emotional scars outlive physical ones, a bullet wound will heal and PTSD is treatable, but the loss of a husband and father is something that may never heal. Hillary Clinton wasn't wrong when she said that women are extremely effected by war, but she's so far from completely right that it is sickening. She leaves out every Father who has lost his son, Son that has lost his father, or friend who has lost a friend. And that is why she is hated by the MRM.

foomfoomfoom · 2012-12-13T15:45:34+00:00

Spartan mom: Come back carrying your shield or being carried on it.

Spartan soldier: Oh mom, I'm so sorry our culture put you in a position where you had to say that. You're feelings are the real casualty here.

TheRealPariah · 2012-12-13T20:20:05+00:00

Well of course. The men died, but who cares about them, the women had to deal with their men dying!

Crankrune · 2013-02-20T14:05:19+00:00

You know who the real victims are? THE ONES WHO FUCKING DIE!

Grethon · 2012-12-12T20:41:53+00:00

You know, I usually really like what Hilary Clinton says and does. I would have even voted for her if I was just 5 months older in the Democratic primary back in 08. But this quite just makes me cringe and ask "What were you thinking Hilary?"

Kirkayak · 2012-12-12T20:27:49+00:00

War is hell.

heavym · 2012-12-13T00:38:36+00:00

this is NOT a men's rights issue.

martyrdod · 2012-12-12T22:05:45+00:00

As someone on the outside looking in. Women/Mens rights activism doesn't seem to be about working for equality and is more like shitting on people of the opposite sex. Reminds me of fundamentalist christians/militant atheists.

barbadosslim_alt · 2012-12-12T23:58:15+00:00

well they do get bombed while unarmed and unprotected a lot

willmaster123 · 2012-12-13T02:24:21+00:00

While i'm not sure, shes probably referring to the fact that woman are being targeted by the hundreds of thousands in the Congo as rape victims, causing massive morale damage and igniting even more conflict in the region.

It is true however that more men have probably died in war than woman, but she was simply trying to get the world to notice the tragedy of the region.

funnyfaceking · 2012-12-12T22:05:10+00:00

erm, how do you know all those coffins have men inside?

TroutM4n · 2012-12-12T22:10:46+00:00

Incomplete, out of context quote is essentially meaningless. Take your impotent rage elsewhere.

DashFerLev · 2012-12-13T00:14:08+00:00

[permanently deleted]

romulusnr · 2012-12-13T01:20:38+00:00

This is about the most retarded thing I've seen on MR to date.

I'm sorry, is this /r/MensRights or /r/WomenBashing?

I love how OP has some kind of digital X-Ray vision so he knows that none of the bodies in those caskets are female.

I also love how OP has some kind of mental deficiency that he believes that the only people that die in wars are the ones in uniforms.

And I finally love how OP does not believe that you can be a victim of something unless you are dead. In OP's world, we must assume, mugging, assault, and rape are victimless crimes because you don't die.

TLDR: OP lives in fantasy world. Perhaps Gor.

tillicum · 2012-12-12T23:13:48+00:00

Context. What a novel idea.

Women have always been the primary victims of war. Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat. Women often have to flee from the only homes they have ever known. Women are often the refugees from conflict and sometimes, more frequently in today’s warfare, victims. Women are often left with the responsibility, alone, of raising the children.

Conference on domestic violence in San Salvador, El Salvador (17 November 1998)

Or, y'know, you go to back cherry picking quotes to fit your narrative.

electriophile · 2012-12-12T21:33:22+00:00

Meh. Not only is this probably the most reposted image in the history of /r/mensrights, it's important to remember that even people who are normally very smart and reasonable aren't immune to saying stupid shit on occasion. This quote was poorly thought out on her part, but let's not forget that she recently told women who are unhappy with their career or family choices to quit whining and do something about it. She may have a backwards view of war victims but at least she's telling the whiny and self-entitled women out there to take some goddamned responsibility for their actions.

datums · 2012-12-13T00:14:18+00:00

You guys should read a little history, seriously. Then you might understand why someone would say this. She is correct.

ignatiusloyola · 2012-12-12T19:48:09+00:00

Did you know that veteran's wives make up the primary receivers of health and wellbeing benefits and programs, too? They suffer from extreme PTSD, loss of limbs and other injuries.

/s

boddah87 · 2012-12-12T19:32:05+00:00

because women rely on men to do everything for them?

2012-12-13T02:51:38+00:00

is that all she said, or will you just present it without context for karma?

BoringCode · 2012-12-13T03:09:36+00:00

Source?

2012-12-13T03:49:31+00:00

Wow. Amazing title there.

uberrogo · 2012-12-13T04:01:04+00:00

They are the ones left after a soldier dies. The wives I mean. Now guys too with the repeal of dadt.

rodvanmechelen · 2012-12-13T04:26:31+00:00

I about barfed when I read Vince Emanuele's article in which he claimed, "We also know that since World War I, the vast majority of those killed in armed conflict have been women and children." source: Pornography and Gender Politics Within Neoliberalism at http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/12/07/pornography-and-gender-politics-within-neoliberalism/

MrJMaxted0291 · 2012-12-13T10:42:47+00:00

I thought it was children that suffered the most during war time, what with all the heartbroken orphans and mutilated kids running around in the aftermath crying for mummy and daddy?

JeremyKean · 2012-12-13T10:59:52+00:00

Now, when I worry about dying, I don't think, "Oh that'll suck, I'll miss out on this, and that, and blahblahblah" because I'll be dead, and will be unable to give a fuck. What I worry about is my family/friends who have to mourn my death. One of my biggest fears is dying in the shower, or while taking a shit or something, because I know that someone I love is going to have to find my dead ass, which would probably be traumatizing. More so than if I died peacefully or with warning.

So I would say others are victims of my death; I've got friends, siblings, parents, one day a wife, then kids, then grandkids, etc. They all would be suffering. It's not all about the fucking female ones. Fucking gynocentric horseshit.

KrishanuAR · 2012-12-13T11:08:55+00:00

Really you're bring up the comment that Hillary Clinton made in 1998... AGAIN?

There are more current issues relating to gender equality. Instead you lot want to rabble about a fucking 15 year old comment that has been brought up over and over since then?

Surfing_magic_carpet · 2012-12-13T13:25:08+00:00

I can understand what she's saying though. She's saying that survivors bear the burden of grief, loss, and whatnot. As far as I'm concerned, if I died in a war, I'd be too dead to think myself a victim. Those surviving me, however, would suffer the loss. Now, she should have worded this as "Friends and family have ..." because that's more fair.

joedie · 2012-12-13T14:47:00+00:00

Are you saying the US soldiers that enlisted and went to another country were the victims? Also how do you know the bodies in those coffins you used to sensationalize you political point are all contain male remains?

HoundDogs · 2012-12-12T19:40:25+00:00

Because the death of men doesn't matter to feminists that don't give a shit about men. EVERYTHING in feminism is about the woman. What happens to the man in secondary in every case.

AtomicSamuraiCyborg · 2012-12-12T22:56:44+00:00

Victim implies that you had nothing to do with it and didn't deserve to get killed by it. Soldiers are not "victims" of war, they are it's belligerents. Like cars stuck in traffic; they aren't stuck in traffic, they ARE traffic.

Soldiers aren't war's victims; they ARE the war.

There is, of course, shades of grey to this. Conscripts and child soldiers have no choice in whether they are going to serve or not. They face death or worse if they attempt to desert. They are victims of war, who all too often in turn victimize others. War is a horrible atrocity that we inflict on ourselves and each other. That war is a noble combat between warriors only is a chivalric fiction. War is the destruction of all that is good, and productive and innocent. Women suffer terribly in war, without even a man's ability and duty to join in the fight and defend themselves. Again, shades of grey; there are many women soldiers and fighters in the world, but most cultures do not prepare or expect women to be fighters.

Men take up arms and fight, and are killed. No one wants to die, but it's a fair cop. If you didn't want to die you shouldn't have been on the battlefield.

ThawahCawwey · 2012-12-12T21:39:17+00:00

My god, what an embarrassment to women for her to say that...

2012-12-12T21:21:22+00:00

Hilary Clinton said it so I'm not that surprised.

Reedfrost · 2012-12-12T22:14:19+00:00

And you disrespect the memory of the fallen soldiers by associating their image with this quote. If you understand the truth, stop beating the dead horse and honor these men by not taking what they fought for for granted.

Samccx19 · 2012-12-13T01:13:12+00:00

Everyone suffers in wars, why the fuck should ANYONE make war gender related?

quaxon · 2012-12-12T19:24:59+00:00

lol, reminds me of this:

http://i.imgur.com/S2Qbi.jpg

MinimaL_SC · 2012-12-12T22:21:18+00:00

The bravery of the circlejerk in this thread is astonishing. Maybe we can take some other quotes completely out of context and use it to further our agenda of being AGAINST WOMEN instead of FOR MEN.

I'd like to know the average age and level of education of the 55k redditors here.

fsckerdot1q · 2012-12-12T23:55:42+00:00

dead people dont care that they are dead. their families are those who suffer. she's absolutely right.

Arxl · 2012-12-13T01:41:34+00:00

Maybe they would be closer to being real victims if they were required to sign up for the draft as well.

2012-12-13T05:33:17+00:00

Man I laughed my ass off at this picture, because it's so damned clever.

Women really need to get overthemselves. They'd be more sexy if they did (hint hin feminists).

Chase1126 · 2012-12-12T22:45:32+00:00

I believe she was discussing the overwhelming number of civilian women who have been raped historically in the process of war. I'd say your post is taken out of context, and I don't think you truly disagree with the point she is trying to make. She isn't trying to make it about her self, she is bringing up the point that "Women lose their husbands, their fathers, their sons in combat", families are torn apart by the deaths of loved ones. Yes she is stereotyping that women are less likely to fight in combat, but this is none the less true. Maybe poorly worded, but it was an attempt to draw attention to the broken families left behind by unnecessary human casualty... not to take away from the value of the , probably male, soldiers life, but his family at home suffers as well, and due to circumstances they weren't allowed to decide.

The posts that litter this thread are... upsetting. Clearly many people here suffer from the same simple-minded quality they seem to hate so much in stereotyped feminists. Seems a bit ironic.

mcellucci · 2012-12-12T20:19:52+00:00

When you are dead you are no longer a victim. The victims are those left behind to morn your death. Your death is not about you. You have no choice but to feel nothing. Your loved ones are the real victims because of your absence.

KOWguy · 2012-12-12T23:10:50+00:00

Men make the decisions leading to war... Just sayin'.

I truly can't grasp this subreddit. More of a circlejerk in my eyes.

EDIT: I'll go all in and say it's a definite circlejerk and I'm just missing the jokes.

SCCROW · 2012-12-12T21:42:03+00:00

PLEASE!!! Everybody STOP!!!

Can't you see what Hillary Clinton is doing to us!?

Can't you see that this is what she wants?!

All of us bickering and arguing - just at the mere image of Hillary Clinton.

Put some Garlic on your fries, and stop looking at Hillary Clinton. Her mere appearance has the effect of spreading madness and despair...

AVERT YOUR EYES!!!

CapnSalty · 2012-12-12T21:14:02+00:00

She meant about the mothers who lost their sons on either side.

advicevice · 2012-12-13T03:10:25+00:00

The dead feel no pain.

slavetothevoices · 2012-12-13T15:43:40+00:00

I still find it difficult to think of anyone who volunteers for military service as the victims of war.

If conscripted fine. But if you volunteer to any of the armed services you have to know you are signing up for potentially kill or be killed in an armed conflict.
Isn't that the whole reason behind being proud of one's country's service members? Honouring their informed and considered sacrifice?

The victims of war are the people who are not involved with the fighting who get murdered anyway, the collateral damage, regardless of race, sex, or creed.

intensely_human · 2012-12-13T22:33:02+00:00

We all know 50% of those caskets have dead women in them.

kupfernikel · 2012-12-12T19:22:47+00:00

Just because the majority of our armed forces is men does not mean women aren't affected by war. First of all, we are not the only country that has ever fought a war. Our country is only a bit over 200 years old. Second of all, women DO carry a burden in war. The amount of women that have been raped in war is countless throughout history. The quote can't really be defended but it also can't really be debunked unless you have statistics for all fighting throughout history.

I do know that almost all war has been STARTED by men so by that logic women are the primary victims. I agree there is a lot of unfair laws directed at men in our modern society but using this as a part of that is just ridiculous and stupid. It takes away from the real heart of the argument that we should be arguing.

firebadmattgood · 2012-12-12T20:58:39+00:00

Your headline is hilarious, considering that a huge portion of the men's rights movement is about recharacterizing the fallout of anti-feminist social policies to make men the primary victims of them.

Grymnir · 2012-12-12T21:44:24+00:00

Because women prosecute and fight in so many wars. And you know what? She is right. Men are the ones starting and fighting wars, so until that shit ends and the ladies get a few under their belts, you cant post shit like this and be taken seriously. The US military is all volunteer, now, so those boys are hardly victims.

2012-12-13T02:54:08+00:00

I just realized: you're doing what you're accusing her of doing and you're clearly not a victim on the level of those soldiers but you're exploiting their death for attention.

Title	How can I make this about meeeeeee?
Author	DashFerLev
Upvotes	1484
Comments	475
Date	December 12, 2012 6:10 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/14qi3i/how_can_i_make_this_about_meeeeeee/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/how-can-i-make-this-about-meeeeeee.1006800 https://theredarchive.com/post/1006800

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