The primary cause of singleness among men is simple yet overlooked.

No-Rough-7390 · 2023-03-22T18:25:29+00:00

I’ve said it before in other threads, but the evaporation of male spaces is for sure one of the leading causes of mental instability in guys. Having a group of close guy friends you can riff with, joke around and hold each other accountable, and really just have each others backs is the best thing for guys. Whether it’s the gym, sports, fishing, whatever. That tribe is an understated huge net positive for guys.

If you’re in a city, one of the best things I recommend is become a regular somewhere nearby. Make a point to interact with the staff, go to do work, read, watch the game, whatever. This is not only important for getting yourself out there, but if you’re dating and you take a woman to your spot where people know you and take care of you it’s almost unbeatable initial social proof.

Firefight726 · 2023-03-22T18:30:20+00:00

Everything has gotten alot more expensive, going out every weekend runs up costs eventually. Why not save additional 200-300 dollars a month.

NockerJoe · 2023-03-22T18:19:39+00:00

There are a lot of spaces that can kinda-but-not really fill that void. I live in a city with many coffee shops and malls and parks people can just kind of hang out in for free or cheaply. But my city is also famously one where a lot of people are socially closed off and you don't see a lot of casual conversation among strangers. But when I travel a bit I'll usually see people be more open to just starting a conversation with strangers, and a lot of those cultures tend to also be more sexually open.

I think it's not just a lack of third spaces, but a general lack of social trust. Especially given a whole generation that's basically been raised on the belief that men are dangerous by default and you should have your guard up around strangers in general on top of that. Even if you put a bunch of young people in a random room together with couches and light music a lot of them probably wouldn't talk very much or keep their emotional walls up out of pure reflex.

One thing I've been saying a bit is that in an environment where people do online dating or the advice has become to ask someone out quickly, if two people are dating without having known each other for a while the first barrier is that they'll have their guard up and it's basically impossible to develop any kind of chemistry or rapport that way.

Holden_Frame · 2023-03-22T22:03:23+00:00

One thing I forgot. Some say that even women are having less sex than before, though not as much as men.

I hate when this gets thrown out when discussing the rise of male sexual and romantic failures.

It deliberately ignores the real question: Who is having less sex despite trying / wanting to?

It's like the difference between kind of liking parties, but getting invited to 10 over a weekend, but deciding to stay in and watch movies versus never once getting invited to a party despite desperately wanting to go to one.

Then turning around and saying "SEE! We both aren't going to parties, therefore our issues are the same!"

One person is deciding to turn the invites down because and another isn't getting them in the first place.

Thaephon_FolLir · 2023-03-22T18:11:43+00:00

I wouldn't necessarily attribute that to technology nor romanticize the past.

The reasons for social alienation of any kind are the same as ever. Fear of the unknown and awkwardness. Try going alone at a bar searching for male friends. It's not much easier than finding your next date. People will stick to their group and probably ignore you.

Now imagine that you're on a quest to reject most of the people who respond in order to find the best possible friend group you could have in your life. It would be a series of disappointments and exhaustion.

It's not about male singleness. It's about wanting to find your own kind in a sea of fear, awkwardness and silent criticism. Technology only reminds you that you're not dying of thirst in a desert, but an ocean of people.

ARatOnPC · 2023-03-22T19:07:48+00:00

That’s not why so many men are single. I see plenty of normal dudes out downtown it’s just that they aren’t picking up women because it’s almost impossible that you find one that doesn’t have better options already waiting in her tinder.

Loud_Definition6669 · 2023-03-22T21:38:15+00:00

One of the biggest differences I noticed starting about 7 years ago is that young people don't approach each other when out.

At first I thought I was just getting older, but then I went to happy hours with a bunch of 22-25 year old coworkers, young women, and groups of young men didn't even come up to talk to them.

When I was that age, you couldn't go out without less than a 1:1 gender ratio and not get approached by men.

So I would say that even when third spaces exist, they are not necessarily used the way they used to be. And that coincides mostly with the dominance of online dating.

modidlee · 2023-03-22T21:14:46+00:00

I said this years ago. I’m a Gen X’er so I came of age when men had to actually have “game” and be charming to get women. Even guys that weren’t tall or good looking, if they had a killer mouthpiece, were getting women. I don’t think women have really changed. When women say they don’t want guys to talk to them it’s because they’re so used to the guys that do approach them not being good at conversing. But I’ve literally never had a woman respond negatively when I start a conversation. Ever. Everyone has their head buried in their phone and don’t develop conversation skills. I remember I was at a tattoo shop and all of us in the lobby were like 5 feet apart but buried in our phones. So I said fuck it and just started talking to the other people there. Next thing you know we were talking the entire time we were there. Guys are antisocial but don’t even realize it because being antisocial is the norm.

qunamax · 2023-03-22T18:58:25+00:00

The primary cause is that some men prefer doing things other than getting wasted in the clubs. They do manly things where women simply aren't present, so not much opportunity to meet in the first place.

If you want to meet women you have to force yourself to go parting and doing other stuff you are not interested in, cause sure as hell girls won't go ahead of themselves to meet you at car races (or similar places).

kvakerok · 2023-03-23T05:34:48+00:00

Some say that even women are having less sex than before

An immediate follow up question to that should be "In what age bracket?" And I bet the answer is going to be 30+. Basically they get kicked off the carousel and correctly self-report the lowest amount of dick in their entire adult lives, while the young ones who are just getting on the carousel or riding it, don't bother with these nonsense polls.

Cardinal_and_Plum · 2023-03-22T18:37:29+00:00

I don't know if it wasn't this way in years past, but I could probably count on one hand how many strangers I've spoken to in a bar that weren't actively serving me something, and I used to go weekly. I don't go alone, I go to hangout with friends (though nowadays I pretty much don't go at all because it's so expensive), and in that scenario I have no desire to talk to anyone else. I'll talk to strangers if they talk to me, but I pretty much never talk to someone else first.

Royal-Tip4585 · 2023-03-22T22:31:34+00:00

Gym was a third space. Then women made a no talking rule.

AloneOnTheStrange · 2023-03-23T03:00:30+00:00

There was a r/bestof thread about "third places" not long ago. And it's hard to disagree.

In our modern world, we're all short on time. Work hours are long and stressful. Study hours are long. Even worse if you're doing both.

We have less money. Work pays less, the cost of living rises, a huge chunk of our pay check disappears to our landlord's pockets.

We don't have time to go places and just chill. We don't have time to try new activities. We don't want to spend too much money doing things.

Business profits are tight, if existent at all. And largely for the same reason; that a huge chunk of those profits go straight to rent. So businesses are built to get you to come in, spend lots of money, and leave. Niche activities that don't bring in lots of money are fewer.

People just socialise less in general. People are guarded against making friends at work. They're with these people for 40+ hours a week, but they don't want to be friends with them? People don't make friends at bars, because talking to strangers is weird and dangerous. People don't make friends at classes, because you've got to run home at the end to take care of all the things you don't have time for.

When people are lonely, bored, and time and money poor, they retreat into games and social media. Don't have to leave the house, they appear to cost less money, and they don't require awkward face to face interaction. But this exacerbates the problem. These things are bigger time and energy sinks than most of the social activities people avoid. They deprive you of learning proper social skills, or teach worse ones. That easy out makes you less motivated to socialise in person. This was bad enough before smartphones, but now you can take your anti-social distractions with you.

The solution is to fix all of these problems. Lower property costs, lower cost of living compared to wages. Businesses being less greedy and more willing to spend more on staff to keep staff stress low. Less tight profit margins so businesses can afford to do things besides constantly selling at a high mark up.

And then of course, less dependence on online spaces. Apps that are less greedy for your time and ad revenue. Less Skinner box games to keep you addicted. Perhaps a system for people that are addicted to these spaces to ween them off of it, and get back to real world activities and socialising.

But at the end of the day, these things exist because they make certain people money. Those people aren't going to stop doing that for the good of our mental health. So that's the first thing that needs to change.

Thekurdishprince · 2023-03-22T18:46:33+00:00

This all talk is irrelevant because society will not try to do anything until it is too late. In 20 years a huge part of these single men will opt out completely while another part will be wifing up single moms/sluts.

They do not care ! In fact in their eyes it is a good thing because cis het man is the devil. They are the cause of all evil in society. Guess what usually happens in societies where the population thinks they have identified the root of all problems? I do not want to say what happens to that group because it will be banned.

In 20 years all you will hear in the media will be these poor gen z women who are now single and childless. They will become the new incels but by that time it is too late to fix and a lot of people will be on meds among other things. It is a waste of time trying to fix it so instead make money off of these people's misery! Invest in things single childless women and men spend money on or better start a whole company in those industries. Pet products , wine , " mental health " drugs and video games is a good start.

DoinIt989 · 2023-03-22T20:32:44+00:00

No, it's a simple math problem. There are too many men, and not enough women.

NittyGrittyDiscutant · 2023-03-22T20:13:55+00:00

most subs here are examples of third spaces, however, in spite of being able to initiate discussions on various topics it's harder to get responses from/reach single individuals

most people initiating such conv with me are not into casual talk and do this to get something, when i initiate things there is hardly energy level matched

RealAmericanWeasel · 2023-03-22T20:47:54+00:00

It says third place not third space. Do you people actually talk in this way? A lot of guys don’t care that much about having more than one or two friends. It might hurt the feelings of some but I don’t think most.

eyewave · 2023-03-23T06:23:08+00:00

For example, even at places like bars, one example of a third space

sorry but wrong example, nowadays bars blast loud music and no one can hear each other, I have been witnessing this in Canadian bars.

thisreallyisnotok · 2023-03-23T19:17:45+00:00

This is a bigger problem than dating and it’s sad that people only care about this issue because it relates to dating.

There is a whole social world and cultures now that aren’t going to exist because we have changed our habits.

reeko12c · 2023-03-22T22:17:56+00:00

Women don't want to get picked up in public. Simple as.

Not the gym, store, coffee shops, no nothing. Bars, Clubs, and Music Festivals are too loud and it's a money pit for men. It's an American thing because everything there is so spaced out that socializing is hardly ever spontaneous.

So Instagram or bust. Maybe Tinder but most women who have IG don't need Tinder. IG is the 'third place' for women. It blows my mind how bad men are with IG but that's the honeypot. You're not gonna get laid on Reddit, or any other male space lmao.

bison5595 · 2023-03-23T01:23:54+00:00

This seems like a chronically online take. The fact is, women don’t need men for provision or protection and that knocks a lot of guys out of the mating selection. Add in dating apps, social media and the fact most men are physically unattractive to most women, a lot of guys are simply not suitable for most women. Creating third spaces doesn’t fix any of that.

SolidusMonkey · 2023-03-23T00:01:32+00:00

There are still plenty of real-life third spaces. Guys just opt not to use them, addicted to devices instead.

Your parents' and grandparents' tax dollars went towards creating public parks, libraries, and recreational facilities to create third spaces to foster socialization and community. Then you guys just hide in their basements to go on Reddit and play video games. The average guys who do use those spaces are doing fine.

AcanthocephalaNew947 · 2023-03-22T18:59:21+00:00

What really bothers me about this stance is it’s just so defeatist. It’s abundantly clear it’s a stance of “why try”

Recently going out with my boyfriend we laughed that we have the worst taste in picking places to go cause every time it’s over crowded with young people ( we old 😂) people are out doing things.

Has online dating had an impact? Yes!

Has social media had an impact? Yes!

But don’t act like malls on Saturday afternoons aren’t packed with young people, clubs, bars, beaches, hell theme parks.

Anyone sitting here claiming these places are empty does not go out. Full stop. I said what I said, there no way anyone actually going to these places can sit there and claim they’re empty, because they aren’t, first had experience of multiple weekends, they aren’t empty.

You pointed out the real issue - no friends.

Dig deeper though - why are people making it to adulthood without making friends?

Cause it’s not happening to everyone, it’s not happening to all men so what’s the disconnect?

We gotta stop making this shit an all or nothing. You can’t fix things by acting like everybody’s experiencing it, that’s how these arguments get dismissed, can we name it what it is and fix it based on WHOS experiencing this? It’s not society as a whole, it’s not men as a whole. It’s a specific subset, let’s explore why this subset is struggling what they need what’s lacking.

Soloandthewookiee · 2023-03-22T19:20:30+00:00

social atomization

I don't think I've ever seen this phrase outside of dating/red pill/incel discussions. Is this some manosphere guru buzzword?

puddingbike · 2023-03-22T21:30:25+00:00

In contrast, before the Internet, people didn't had that choice so they were more "forced" to engage with each other IRL.

This is true. There's no getting around it. I remember the before times, and they were a lot different. Even now...look at how we're communicating here. I'll never know SoWhatKnowGenius. Interesting name, by the way.

BUT, the primary cause isn't atomization. It's that standards of women are too tough for the majority to meet! You see these discussions on here all the time, and it's accurate. Women have gotten choosier! That's the primary reason.

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Deshaun-Kobe · 2023-03-22T18:14:22+00:00

Yea and it's only gonna get worse

Pornography becoming more extreme

Social media creating more delusional women

I mean covid really did have an impact on guys being social

lostnumber08 · 2023-03-22T18:43:57+00:00

Probably true.

Windmill_flowers · 2023-03-22T20:50:24+00:00

I would just like to thank you for using the word a social instead of antisocial. That's all

rootsnyder · 2023-03-23T02:00:24+00:00

100% agree with you

Gundam_net · 2023-03-23T06:58:42+00:00

xD I love how this whole post assumes a guy has a normal life with a job and his own address. In my experience, the primary cause is women rejecting men for being low income or unemployed regardless of any other factors. If he's low income throughout all his 20's, then he gets rejected for aging in his 30s.

Women bring it upon themselves by rejecting low income men for no reason. It's their own fault for passing by good, innocent, young people who are perfectly normal, well meaning kind people. In doing so, they cause them to become bitter and ruin their lives by sacrificing their youth through rejection for something superficial and socially constrained.

I think it's pretty stupid to reject a guy on his income and waste his youth for nothing.

If even not low income guys who have their very own addresses are still getting rejected in spite of that and the guy is under 30, then that's just... RIP.

However, I agree that handheld technology has ruined things further. Hand held tech should have halted with the Gameboy. The Gameboy was already borderline addictive and isolating, but the lack of internet access made it eventually get boring to the point that you turn it off and go physically walk somewhere else and do something else. Adding interneg access makes it possible to just open a browser instead to achieve that same effect. Hand held tech of any kind never should have had internet access. Porn and dating apps made this worse, as now people have unlimited access to inequalities of quality of people and people are objectified. Making things far, far, worse than mere addiction to mindless web surfing.

TL;DR

It's women's own fault for rejecting young guys who aren't bad people for some superficial reasons, thereby wasting the guy's youth for nothing.

hodlbtcxrp · 2023-03-23T08:24:08+00:00

With people working from home now as well as education happening remotely as well as ordering products and food online and having it delivered to you, it is possible to go about your entire life in total isolation.

obviousredflag · 2023-03-23T10:30:43+00:00

The primary cause of singleness among men is simple yet overlooked.

individuals can easily choose to

As you pointed it out: It's choice.

People choose to live a life that results in loneliness. People choose to live a life that results in overweight.

You can force yourself to not overeat just as you can force yourself to leave your phone at home when going to a bar. You also choose to not go to a bar in the first place, and rather put on a netflix show or argue on the internet.

CombinationUsed7938 · 2023-03-23T11:42:31+00:00

That's why I say men have to make their own rules in the game.

Why do so many young men stick to dating apps and bars/clubs like it is a rule?

In general you are free to talk to people, and thus you are free to create your own setting. If you're at least interesting people, in this case women, will at least listen to you.

whitehack · 2023-03-23T13:39:49+00:00

Well see it's interesting what you're saying and it seems like a VERY individual thing. I'm not single. And I get sex whenever I want (even if not with my partner?) BUT... I do have literally zero social life and THAT is the part where I agree with this theory of yours of "social atomisation" and people just overall being more... insular.

As it is, I'm currently working security for events (at night) and so I'm working at the exactly same time as anyone with a social life is normally... socialising and having fun. That's definitely one factor that "should" make me more LIKELY to be single but I was already in a relationship long before this immediately current job situation.

When I want to find casual sex, I find it easy (but I'm bisexual and maybe that's an unfair comparison? or maybe not? from what I've read... there is such thing as "gaycels", gay people who "can't" get sex without paying for it). On Grindr, it's very looks based (nudes based 🙄) so basically if you have a young looking, healthy looking body, then... you'll get more offers than you want.

Maybe this is a straight guy problem? 🤔

ColdLightGeneration5 · 2023-03-23T16:28:37+00:00

Hmm. There were heaps of lonely men before the advent of the internet. No online social interactions = fewer dating options. Personally, I find strangers relatively affable nowadays compared to, say, back in the '90s, when (in my experience growing up) folks tended to be a little standoffish, with an attitude of "I don't know this person – why are they talking to me?" Phones are immaterial in these scenarios, I think – talk to anyone today using their mobile and, typically, they'll look up and interact. "Men with more friends get laid more" – where did you get that notion? More friends, more competition – it sort of evens out. Interesting post/topic; just don't agree with any of it, haha.

Suavedaddy5000 · 2023-03-23T17:44:25+00:00

If loitering wasn't discouraged I'm sure people would be outside more often.

StaticNocturne · 2023-03-24T05:45:20+00:00

This is a symptom not the sickness itself (atomization, hyperreality, decline of social skills, less need for networking offline)

SoldierExcelsior · 2023-03-25T01:24:16+00:00

It's not over looked CGA has been saying the game changed in 2013 when Instagram dropped.

Maine stream just wants to Blame men cause it gets ratings...and women lap it up...

Truth is men aren't evolved to compete with the entire world for women we compete locally abd enact laws abd customs to keep hypergamy in check in many places adulterers and 304s are burned at the stake still.

In this era of social media and feminism girlpower and unshackled female nature many men will be left on the sidelines as women follow their baseline instincts that where kept in check in the past.

Women are fornicating left and right with pookies convicts felons psychopaths drug dealers etc if he's sexy fck him generation...have any ninja baby generation it's Kool the gov will support me if he's dead in jail or dips out.

Men need to adapt stop looking for wives stop gettin 304s and gold diggers pregnant and get your passport

Ok-Opposite-9955 · 2023-03-28T22:14:36+00:00

100% a significant factor

Title	The primary cause of singleness among men is simple yet overlooked.
Author	SoWhatKnowGenius
Upvotes	177
Comments	279
Date	March 22, 2023 6:03 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/11yr61m/the_primary_cause_of_singleness_among_men_is/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-primary-cause-of-singleness-among-men-is.1186700 https://theredarchive.com/post/1186700

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