Why Don’t Women Defend Men Like Men Defend Women?

Responsible_Mind_259 · 2025-03-02T21:55:43+00:00

I've noticed a a glaring double standard when it comes to how men and women react to criticism against the opposite gender. Men constantly defend women,...

[–]EulenWatcher♀ I like to practice what I preach (Blue) 50 points51 points52 points 1 year ago (22 children) | Copy Link

Women have higher in-group bias than men do. Why it is so is up to a discussion, some of the reasons cited in the studies: importance for survival, gender norms, higher parental investment, "women are wonderful" effect etc.

When you think about it, it makes sense. A lot of women have worse experience with men rather than with other women, so they grow to trust and rely on women more than on men. Not because all men are awful, but because the minority of men who do harass others is very prolific. Men also tend to rely on women more than on other men for emotional support, even though we do have all the talks about women struggling to bear men's vulnerability.

Plus, feminism has done a great job to push women's rights and spread awareness about women's problems. Social norms have changed and become less tolerable towards hatred or discrimination towards women, although, we've got an increase of both recently. We do not have a similar movement for men's issues, and men struggle to voice their concerns both due to their gender role and because of very negative connotation incels and manosphere in general created for themselves.

Having said all of that, there are women defending men. There are female men's rights activists, there are egalitarian women who care for men in their lives, there are women who just want to be consistent. I'm glad to see more spaces dedicated to helping men like r/GuyCry or r/bropill, and both communities have women participating there.

[–]Responsible_Mind_259[S] 13 points14 points15 points 1 year ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]EulenWatcher♀ I like to practice what I preach (Blue) 13 points14 points15 points 1 year ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]RahLytPurple Pill Man 9 points10 points11 points 1 year ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Men also tend to rely on women more than on other men for emotional support, even though we do have all the talks about women struggling to bear men's vulnerability.

Lol how is this true?? Men on average rely more on women for emotional support? Where do you guys get these facts from?

Like how can this be a fact? How can be an epidemic of single men, but somehow this single men rely on women for support?

Women rely way more on men for emotional support in relationships than the other way around lol. It's not even close.

Plus, feminism has done a great job to push women's rights and spread awareness about women's problems.

Feminism has done a great job of starting the gender war. That's it's biggest accomplishment.

Social norms have changed and become less tolerable towards hatred or discrimination towards women, although, we've got an increase of both recently.

Haha yes, hatred for women increased by itself. Hatred for men stayed the same? 🤔

Actually what's even your point?

We do not have a similar movement for men's issues

Hello?? MRM? Oh I forgot, feminism did everything they could to sabotage them.

and men struggle to voice their concerns both due to their gender role and because of very negative connotation incels and manosphere in general created for themselves.

Yes, all men's issues are self imposed women issues are injustices lol

There are female men's rights activists,

So you do know about MRM...

I'm glad to see more spaces dedicated to helping men like r/GuyCry or r/bropill, and both communities have women participating there.

Ofc you are lol. Guy cry? Lol men are being raised as defective women, clearly lol

[–]EulenWatcher♀ I like to practice what I preach (Blue) [score hidden] 1 year ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Just to be clear, I was talking about men who do have women in their close social circle. If we do believe that men rely on women more than on other men for emotional support, it makes sense why single men often feel lonelier than single women.

Here's an interesting stats on the topic.

The same number of men and women said that they rely on their partner for emotional support, but men scored lower in every other category. Considering that most people have more friends of their own gender, I don't think it's a stretch to say that men are more closed off towards their friends than women.

Very small sample, but an interesting study showing that men are more comfortable talking to women they're close to. Men who have more experience with therapy have easier times opening up to their friends too.

I don't think there's any sense in addressing your other points, as it doesn't seem you're open to the discussion.

[–]RahLytPurple Pill Man [score hidden] 1 year ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Just to be clear, I was talking about men who do have women in their close social circle. If we do believe that men rely on women more than on other men for emotional support, it makes sense why single men often feel lonelier than single women.

How is this true lol? Women don't know what to do with male emotions. I've been part of a lot of social circles I've never been in one where guys would reliably get more emotional support from women than the other way around.

Guys obviously emotionally support their guy friends before, women do. Lol how would you know that not to be the case, you're a woman. Of course you won't hear about it, since you were not supposed to know to begin with?!

Again I don't understand how this became true in some women's minds?

Women can barely relate to men.

The same number of men and women said that they rely on their partner for emotional support, but men scored lower in every other category. Considering that most people have more friends of their own gender, I don't think it's a stretch to say that men are more closed off towards their friends than women.

Lol but this doesn't mean that men get more help from women than from other men????

Men are naturally more closed off, for reasons men understand very well. The world is not so nice with your emotions/feelings so what's the point of giving someone else a weapon they can use against you?

Very small sample, but an interesting study showing that men are more comfortable talking to women they're close to. Men who have more experience with therapy have easier times opening up to their friends too.

So men are comfortable speaking to women they are close to, sure. And men who go to therapy are more likely to open up to their friends, sure.

How does that prove your point?

I don't think there's any sense in addressing your other points, as it doesn't seem you're open to the discussion.

Lol you don't have to, if you don't want to, just don't project it onto me. I always address every point someone uses against me.

[–]EulenWatcher♀ I like to practice what I preach (Blue) [score hidden] 1 year ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]RahLytPurple Pill Man [score hidden] 1 year ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]EulenWatcher♀ I like to practice what I preach (Blue) [score hidden] 1 year ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]RahLytPurple Pill Man [score hidden] 1 year ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Maffioze26M altruistic individualist 1 point2 points3 points 1 year ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Men also tend to rely on women more than on other men for emotional support,

Is there actual proof that this is true? And I'm not just talking about self-reports.

because of very negative connotation incels and manosphere in general created for themselves.

They really didn't just create it for themselves. They would have been demonized no matter what they did.

If public perception was solely/mainly determined by a groups actions/beliefs then feminists would have just as much of a negative connotation to them but they pretty clearly don't.

I'm glad to see more spaces dedicated to helping men like r/GuyCry or r/bropill, and both communities have women participating there.

Those spaces are censored far too much and openly feminist. Also some of the mods on GuyCry have expressed some fucked up opinions before.

[–]RelationshipSalty369 3 points4 points5 points 1 year ago (1 child) | Copy Link

https://theconversation.com/happy-wives-happy-social-lives-men-are-more-emotionally-disconnected-than-women-what-can-be-done-about-it-239194

Is there actual proof that this is true? And I'm not just talking about self-reports.

There's quite a bit out there, in multiple places and written in multiple ways.

They really didn't just create it for themselves. They would have been demonized no matter what they did.

No, they definitely created that one themselves. Plenty of men are happily going their own way without all that shit and nobody cares.

If public perception was solely/mainly determined by a groups actions/beliefs then feminists would have just as much of a negative connotation to them but they pretty clearly don't.

You mean that you don't think feminist is now facing a backlash? Or that it's not required? I'm not quite sure what you mean.

Those spaces are censored far too much and openly feminist. Also some of the mods on GuyCry have expressed some fucked up opinions before.

What's feminist about them? Genuine question, not looking to "gotcha".

A lot of mods on a lot of subs have fucked up opinions. That's the nature of letting people moderate.

[–]Maffioze26M altruistic individualist 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago (0 children) | Copy Link

https://theconversation.com/happy-wives-happy-social-lives-men-are-more-emotionally-disconnected-than-women-what-can-be-done-about-it-239194

This article does not convince me that these claims are "objectively true" rather than a subjective framing of the author.

This kind of hits on a lot of things I'm very skeptical about in social science as someone who works as a scientist in the intersection between exact science and social science.

Just to give some examples:

1)it begins by suggesting we should care about this issue because lonely men are more likely to have negative views of women. Like already from the very beginning, how are we supposed to believe someone like this is approaching this topic from a neutral and unbiased angle when they make it clear they care more about how it effects women?

2)there is no clear definition of the concepts that are used in this article. What does it mean to emotionally support someone? We live in a world where gender roles link emotions to women and rationality to men, which could easily mean that men giving out emotional support is not recognized as being emotional while a woman being rational might be considered emotional instead. I have serious issues with the lack of debate and transparency about conceptual frameworks in the social sciences. Usually someone invents a concept and then it gets widely adopted not because it is necessarily useful, accurate or well defined but because it caters to the biases the researchers themselves already hold.

3)This article suggests that focusing on nuclear family over friends is bad pretty much. Why? Are we going to pretend that men doing this is not a massive benefit to women and children, or that men's competitive nature is not a big reason for why our quality of life has increased this much?

4)This article does not acknowledge the pressures on men well enough. At some point it says "men feel mainly responsible to emotionally and financially supporting their partner and kids, their partner then supports those outside of the nuclear family" but then it immediately jumps to how this is a burden on their female partners and not on themselves. It does not make sense to me how men prioritising their nuclear families would not lead to them processing their emotions internally to not burden those in that family.

Plenty of men are happily going their own way without all that shit and nobody cares.

I'm not talking about going their own way. I'm talking about speaking up about men's issues and injustices men face. People are ready at a tin of a hat to demonize someone who does that. I'm not a redpiller, a manosphere guy or an incel but I receive the exact same treatment as they do when I dare to say anything. Even those who claim to hate gender roles can't get past the gender role of seeing men as having full agency everywhere. If you're demonized immediately its not surprising at all that it encourages radicalism.

You mean that you don't think feminist is now facing a backlash? Or that it's not required? I'm not quite sure what you mean.

They are now, after decades of facing almost none at all, and only in the US pretty much

Even today people are more concerned what manosphere dudes say online than what real feminists are doing in the government. When they change laws so that men receive harsher punishments for being male it's apparently no big deal but when a manosphere dude with no power says something mean about women it's a national terrorist treat.

What's feminist about them? Genuine question, not looking to "gotcha".

They ban any viewpoint that is MRA adjacent which in practice means you cannot think misandry is real, or that feminism is not perfect.

I don't mind feminists existing in those spaces, I just mind the censorship. And every time someone recommends these kinds of subs I just cringe inside because it's so stereotypical. Somehow the good men's subs are those that pander to women (and I like miss Eulenwatcher, so its not personal towards her) each time.

[–]EulenWatcher♀ I like to practice what I preach (Blue) [score hidden] 1 year ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Here's an interesting stats on the topic.

The same number of men and women said that they rely on their partner for emotional support, but men scored lower in every other category. Considering that most people have more friends of their own gender, I don't think it's a stretch to say that men are more closed off towards their friends than women.

Very small sample, but an interesting study showing that men are more comfortable talking to women they're close to. Men who have more experience with therapy have easier times opening up to their friends too.

You said you aren't interested in anecdotal data, but it is something I see in my life as well. My husband is the most expressive with me, and a few of my male friends told me that they can talk to me about things they've never talked about with anyone else. Of course, it's a very biased sample.

I don't think there's any sense in denying that worshipping mass-shooters by some incels did all struggling men dirty.

I think feminism has getting worse and worse reputation these days. Western branch of feminism needs some drastic revision imv.

Censorship is needed when your places attract...certain population. Without moderating PPD would be banned already.

[–]Maffioze26M altruistic individualist [score hidden] 1 year ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The same number of men and women said that they rely on their partner for emotional support, but men scored lower in every other category. Considering that most people have more friends of their own gender, I don't think it's a stretch to say that men are more closed off towards their friends than women.

I think I'm mainly struggling with the concept of "relying" on someone. I believe men just rely more on themselves, which is why they score lower in every other category.

showing that men are more comfortable talking to women they're close to. Men who have more experience with therapy have easier times opening up to their friends too.

I'm definitely not completely dismissing it, but this study is using a lot of words/concepts that I'm very sceptical about regarding their validity from a scientific POV. "Constructing masculinities" for example is something that I believe is badly defined and has very little explanatory power. I find it a real shame that there are not more ideologically neutral researchers who focus on these topics because the end result is that I don't know what I'm supposed to believe.

You said you aren't interested in anecdotal data, but it is something I see in my life as well. My husband is the most expressive with me, and a few of my male friends told me that they can talk to me about things they've never talked about with anyone else. Of course, it's a very biased sample.

It's not that I'm not interested in anecdotal data, it's just that my experiences have let me to a very high level of scepticism. Over the years, I have seen so many people make such confident claims about gender issues and especially about how men deal with their emotions. Very often, it feels alienating to me, not relatable at all and like it's off the mark. But then when you ask why they believe that, the evidence is profoundly lacking and the argumentation usually makes no sense. The worst example of this is probably the whole emotional labour conversation. The first time I heard about it I thought people were joking because all anecdotal data I have doesn't just not support it, it supports the exact opposite. For example portraying stoicism as a lazy, unintelligent action is extremely alienating to me because for me it is a conscious act of sacrifice that I do with awareness of what I'm doing and the emotions I'm feeling.

I also think there needs to be more open discussion about semantics and the definition of words. Concepts like "emotional support" can easily become defined in such ways that they become coded in the language of one gender. If I know my male friend is not feeling well, and I offer to go see a sports game with him but without talking about emotions, does that mean I'm not giving emotional support? I think men show their support more by things like this, but usually the emotional component that it has is obscured because its not openly talked about.

But regarding your anecdotal data, I think we both have the issue that we are empathetic individuals. I have been told the same thing by female partners and female friends. From our POV it is hard to see what is going on.

I don't think there's any sense in denying that worshipping mass-shooters by some incels did all struggling men dirty.

I really think this is just what people use as an excuse. Most incels are not mass-shooters and most of them don't worship mass-shooters either. People were always primed to demonize men who struggle with anything thay threatens gender roles. I always struggle to explain this to women, but this is what it is to live as a man. People can not stand it if you complain and especially not when your complaints involve women or what people perceive to be extensions of women such as feminism. I think people constantly have cause and effect reversed. A lot of the extremism in the manosphere is caused by demonisation that pre-existed its rise and not the other way around. We have had decades before the manosphere was a thing, this did not develop out of nowhere.

Censorship is needed when your places attract...certain population. Without moderating PPD would be banned already.

Yeah but censorship can also go too far and make the toxicity worse. Especially when the censorship is not impartially enforced. A few days ago I was banned from the Europe subreddit for saying that both young men and young women are justified in being afraid of misandry and misogyny respectively.

[–]EulenWatcher♀ I like to practice what I preach (Blue) [score hidden] 1 year ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I wish we had more studies on the topic, so we would have more data on how we actually can help men. I do think that men tend to bottle things up more, and looking at addiction and suicide rates it doesn't seem that men are doing well.

Agree with your point about being empathetic and agree that we need to define things better.

Most incels do not have to be mass shooters for them to create a bad reputation for themselves. It's enough to worship mass shooters and post their vile fantasies about women or even girls online for everyone to see. PPD is on a much milder side due to moderation, but allpillsdebate had some nasty examples of what I'm talking about.

Yes. people jump to conclusions, but that's how people work. In a similar way a lot of people believe that feminists are all blue-haired men-hating whales, and...well, I have to just live with the assumption and do my best to correct it I guess.

Sure, the balance is important. I am glad to see more spaces dedicated to positive masculinity and male issues that do not boil down to "remove women's rights" rhetoric though.

[–]Maffioze26M altruistic individualist [score hidden] 1 year ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I wish we had more studies on the topic, so we would have more data on how we actually can help men. I do think that men tend to bottle things up more, and looking at addiction and suicide rates it doesn't seem that men are doing well.

I think that as long we continue to frame everything through the lens of "masculinities" we won't be able to help much. But then again, this is essentially me saying whole domains in academia are useless, and they will never accept it because their income depends on these theories remaining in place. I stand by that belief though.

It's enough to worship mass shooters and post their vile fantasies about women or even girls online for everyone to see. PPD is on a much milder side due to moderation, but allpillsdebate had some nasty examples of what I'm talking about.

But what do you think that caused this? In the west we come from a decades long period where most men supported feminism and the manosphere was barely a thing at all. I keep seeing people who blame social media algorithms but this explanation feels lacking to me. And often times its the people who ingage in rather questionable behaviour themselves who are the most vocal about how much of a threat incels are.

In my view, economic conditions have deteriorated, especially for young men and simultaneously, Western Feminism have pushed for unfair advantages for women and in some cases have violated fundamental human rights for men such as due process, equality under the law and anti discrimination laws. But at the same time, if a young man said anything about the economic problems he was told to stop whining and to just work harder and if he said anything about the gender problems he was gaslighted about it not being real or accused of being a terrible person and this went on for decades without much happening initially. I myself started as a feminist and then realized that if I said something they don't like even if it was objectively correct I'd be immediately seen as the bad guy. I don't find it surprising at all that this leads to a gradual build-up of extremism, I had a phase like this myself right after my relationship with my abusive ex ended. I was on a path of radicalisation for months and then luckily snapped myself out of it. But it made me understand how easily someone can radicalise when they are gaslighted and demonised for the pain they suffered.

[–]lovelesslibertine -2 points-1 points0 points 1 year ago (4 children) | Copy Link

"Importance for survival" doesn't make sense. Women need men to survive more than anything, they don't need other women. Of course, our natural social state is harems, so it's natural women have evolved to get along with other females. Although I really wonder how innate this is. And if it is so innate, how in Christ did men "dominate" for practically all of human history?

"When you think about it, it makes sense. A lot of women have worse experience with men rather than with other women, so they grow to trust and rely on women more than on men. Not because all men are awful, but because the minority of men who do harass others is very prolific. Men also tend to rely on women more than on other men for emotional support, even though we do have all the talks about women struggling to bear men's vulnerability."

I couldn't disagree with this more. Women rely on men much more than the inverse. For almost everything. Though modern society has deluded women into believing they don't, because it's more indirect than ever before. While men also rely on men much more than women. "Emotional support"? lol. Not really how men function.

[–]Fast_Stick_1593No Pill 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Idk how anyone could disagree or downvote you?

Who keeps the power on? The water running? Producing energy and maintaining it? Who farms? Who fishes? Who takes the garbage? Who builds, destroys, makes, creates, designs and implements basically all major infrastructure, transport, urban planning. Who does pretty much all of the extremely dangerous and risk taking jobs that make modern society run as smoothly as it does? And the best most productive teams that work together are all male based teams. They organise themselves into a hierarchy without fuss and assign tasks to each individual because that’s what they are wired to do. It results in high productivity and innovation.

And before someone jumps in a says “AGCKUTAUALLY I KNOW SOMEONE” Your anecdotal evidence means nothing.

99.99999999% of those jobs that keep society moving are done by dudes. And you don’t see women pushing themselves into those careers either, even with women’s empowerment movement. Even when encouraged to do so they always go back to jobs that align with their biological wants/needs. Dealing with people in social settings and health/care/nurturing jobs.

How anyone could possibly think Men need Women more than Women need Men? They are kidding themselves. Men created society, women nurtured society. It’s worked forever. That isn’t going to change just because someone’s feelings get hurt. Trying to push men to be more emotional is why they are struggling soo much growing up.

They aren’t learning to be the best guys they can be, they are learning how to be a weird mix of a man and a woman and it causes confusion with purpose and that results in them struggling in school and acting out. Lacking true Male Role Models. Not Tate or Trump or any of those clowns, genuine real fathers who can guide them.

[–]lovelesslibertine 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]EulenWatcher♀ I like to practice what I preach (Blue) [score hidden] 1 year ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]lovelesslibertine [score hidden] 1 year ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Nope. Women rely on men for survival. Men rely on women to be born. It's not less pronounced at all, that's an illusion. Men are still doing at least 95% of essential and hard jobs, building everything, maintaining everything, protecting everything, paying for most things and creating most things.

Look around you. Count the things in your house (built by men) you use/rely on every day, how many of them were provided by women?

If you removed women from the Earth, male productivity would drop off significantly, you're right. Because women are a major motivation for male labour and productivity. Without women, men choose to live much more modestly and much more simply. Men are not materialist or consumerist. The main reason men want to succeed and earn in life is women-- they either want to attract women or provide for women (and children).

Of course you were talking about relationships, people always are. They want to ignore the lion's share of work done in society, and who does it.

[–]alreadydarkPurple Pill Woman 46 points47 points48 points 1 year ago (99 children) | Copy Link

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Your algorithm has to be in absolute shambles

What you should understand is that everyone's algorithm is curated specifically to them. Your feed shows you what they have decided you are most interested in seeing based off of your demographic, and what you are most likely to react to based on your online behaviour. It really has little to do with HOW MUCH you use the platform.

That's why social media is creating more division than ever before. In the past, news sources were of course still biased, but everyone still more or less got the same impression of what's going on in the world because there was still only a handful of common sources of information. Now, every single individual has an impression of reality curated just for them.

I also don't use Tiktok or twitter. Instagram is the only social media I use (other than reddit and youtube, if that counts). I regularly go weeks and sometimes several months at a time without using social media. I just redownloaded the app 3 days ago and this is what i'm seeing. But I find it really amusing that you assume i'm in the top 500 of chronically online just because my experience is different than yours.

edit: I also think it's worth mentioning that even after going months without any use, I log in and immediately see extremist political content as well as extremely emotionally reactive and triggering content (such as real life SA cases). If you look into why social media is designed the way it is (Jaron Lanier has a good book about this) this isn't shocking at all and it's basically due to the simple fact that all the algorithm cares about is you engaging with the app more

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And how do you think that happened? Women lobbied for them, years after they started actually working in and around these shelters. They're not gifts.

And again men are part of that process.

Funding it, building it, working it, maintaining it, fixing it, running it. I promise you that a man is in there doing one or possibly multiple of these roles.

Which men?

The Salvation Army was founded by William Booth.

Here's some copy and paste:

Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, and Joe Biden. Jimmy Carter:

Jimmy Carter: -Advocated for the homeless and impoverished worldwide -Built affordable housing in New York's East Village

Bill Clinton -Awarded nearly $300 million in grants to help communities address homelessness -The grants funded outreach, job training, and permanent housing

Barack Obama -Awarded nearly $1.6 billion in grants to help local housing and service programs -The American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 provided $1.5 billion for homeless prevention

Joe Biden -The Biden administration has invested billions of dollars to help end homelessness -The American Rescue Plan helped prevent millions of people from losing their homes -The administration has also expanded Medicaid to help people experiencing homelessness pay for housing and services -The administration has helped more than 140,000 people move into permanent housing

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As I’m quite aware of the Rutherford Hayes fiasco which led to the collapse of reconstruction, the spread of Jim Crow, and the such tragedies as the Wilmington NC massacre and coup d’etat don’t even TRY it or claim revisionist history.

Black Men AND women were both lynched - and that’s a fucking sin - but that doesn’t change the fact that:

Men were more willing to give black men the vote than women.

The first black senator - Hiram Revels of Mississippi 1870z

The first female senator? (Elected) Hattie Caraway 1932.

Btw, a lot of Jews were lynched next to those black men and women.

I do not in ONE WAY claim that black people haven’t been treated like shit. They have and continue to be.

But it doesn’t change the fact that when push came to shove, and killing came to killing, the right for men was enshrined first the constitution, not women - neither black nor white.

Ps white suffragettes betrayed their black sisters, and that’s another strike against white women.

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I fully agree that it was not cool that there was a time when men could vote and women couldn't. That was not fair treatment and was sexist against women.

That being said, I just wanna point out that it's not a great argument to use, cause that time was so short, ~50 years unless I'm wrong, and now, it's been twice as long - ~100 years - that women can vote WITHOUT the requirements that men have. Meaning that it's been sexist against men for twice as long. Meaning that women have had a voting privilege over men for just over a century, a privilege that will probably continue indefinitely. (A privilege given to them by men, funny enough. Men talk big against women online, but let's be real - when push actually comes to shove, they're wimps, happy to step on their own feet to please women, even outright killing other men in the process.)

I'd happily take a woman's place where voting is concerned.

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Sure let me see it, that’s a bummer Reddit would have something so blatantly sexist.

I’m just sharing my experience. Men here are sensitive. If a woman is a victim of rape, somehow she is demonizing men which is an odd mindset imo.

I’m just pointing out the difference between “im sharing a story about my rape and how it’s effected me and my relationship with men” versus “fat women are ugly entitled landwhales and women are shallow/evil/spoiled/ungrateful of the unwanted attention they get”.

I hold people to the same standard. Men want different standards. But I don’t award them special treatment. You don’t get to scream land whale!!! In women’s faces and then cry about being lonely, sorry. The same way a woman screaming men ain’t shit and short men should fuck off! Isn’t going to get a good reaction either from me.

But either gender sharing a personal story revolving trauma and recognizing poor or damaged relationship skills or feeling traumatized etc, isn’t something I view as hate.

Most men claim they get banned “just for keeping things equal”. I already know that’s not true and you most likely said something very rude and inflammatory. Most men here forget this is an echo chamber and the nasty things said here are not the norm.

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K so anyway if we get back on topic men are still a bigger threat to womens lives than women are to mens lives.

Is this the metric that we're using? How often we kill each other, even though a Big Mac is more likely to kill you?

You can live in fear of the men around. Doesn't change the fact that in all likelihood they're just going to go about their day. Eat healthy though.

Nope. People in power built society and those included men and women and I doubt they'd appreciate some pleb taking credit for their work

One. It's not just people in power, but everyone who contributed.

Two. It's not taking credit for anything. It's recognizing the fact that people who came before us put a good deal of effort in making sure we all live and that hopefully we pass that on.

Anyway you're Freddy Kruger isn't under your bed. Having a balanced diet will help you live longer though.

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Strawman. You wanted an explanation for why there are more womens shelters and that is the explanation.

I think you meant to reply to someone else. Pretty sure I never asked for an explanation.

In the case you didn't. We give shelters because they were in danger. Which means we took consideration to their safety.

Still doesn't change the fact that in all likelihood, you won't have need of a shelter.

Nope it's people in power. They could easily just enslave you again

Easily? How do you figure that?

You are lol.

....no

Anyway still a strawman and you have no argument lol

See this is what I meant that not eating healthy would impact your health. Your brain is important, it needs proper nutrition.

Anyway the argument still stands that heart failure will get you before some random (or a not so random) man gets you.

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what it really counts is what do you do for a complete stranger

And shelters and food banks are places where everyone knows everyone and not the place to help random strangers who most desperately need it.

And your other examples are not directed specifically to women.

And today we learned because men also get help in a shelter, it doesn't count in helping women even though they got help from that same shelter.

So... you do nothing?

Shelters and food banks. Helping my mom and sister.

And you cant give one example, and just by seeing how you talk about women.. I highly doubt that you do, no need to act

Shelters and food banks. Helping my mom and sister.

But just proved the point that men nowadays dont protect much at all.

Fire, police, construction, engineers, scientists, doctors, medics....the list is long.

Otherwise we wouldn't have a global epidemic of violence against women

Heart disease is the number one killer worldwide. Then cancer, then strokes, then a whole lot of things before you get to homicide.

Assuming you live in the first world and barring health issues you'll live 70-80.

Now. Question.

Why must it be solely for women? Why must aid directly impact and specify only women to say your helping women? Especially when women directly benefit along men? In what world does it make sense to say because aid was given to people and not solely women, it suddenly means you're not helping women when women have been directly or indirectly impacted?

Are they just not women because men exist?

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[–]Mr-OhLordHaveMercy [score hidden] 1 year ago (6 children) | Copy Link

You put yourself the medal, so what do you do to HELP WOMEN.

One. It's not some medal to be worn. It's the right thing to do.

Two. I'm still confused at the blatant disregard of the effort that men have put forth when people (to include women) have benefited. Why would you disregard this?

So ill ask again, what do you do personally to help women??

Worked at shelters and food banks. Helped my mother and sister.

I'll keep giving the same answer. Because it answers the question. Have women been helped due to those actions? Yes? Alright then, question answered.

You keep going around in circles but im still waiting for the answer

You don't need to wait we've already arrived at the answer.

If there's anything to wait on. It's your explanation as to why the only way you can say women have been helped is if aid has solely been given to only them. Why is it that if someone else has received help, it somehow negates the aid that's been given to women? Make it make sense.

Until you answer that question. You're gonna be chasing your own tail.

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There's a... reason for so few women firefighters and police officers, and it ain't because they don't want to be firefighters and police officers.

Also, Maternity Leave is kinda a weird thing to bring up to imply people are favouring women. Like... she just went through major surgery or shoved a watermelon out of her pelvis. However it got out, the thing needs to eat every to-three hours for the first few months of its life (with feedings sometimes taking an hour), and she makes its food out of her breasts. Maternity leave isn't "favouring" anything, it's just acknowledging nature and basic logic.

And to answer a thing you brought up elsewhere, most shelters are female shelters because women run them. Women ran the first domestic abuse shelters out of their own homes. Literally the only reason men don't have more shelters is because men don't support themselves.

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“ You live longer.” And we get better insurance because we are less reckless. So how is that about men protecting women? We go to the doctors more. How is that men protecting women?

Did you know that drugs are never tested on women, leaving us suffering severe side effects? Let’s talk about all the biases against women in medical care:

https://physicians.dukehealth.org/articles/recognizing-addressing-unintended-gender-bias-patient-care

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8812498/

“ You don't die or kill yourselves as much.”

Because we build social networks and seek help. And you don’t.

“I understand you're ungrateful, but let's not pretend men have never cared.”

I understand you aren’t capable of analytical thought or research, but let’s not pretend men have always cared.

[–]Mr-OhLordHaveMercy -2 points-1 points0 points 1 year ago (2 children) | Copy Link

You live longer.” And we get better insurance because we are less reckless.So how is that about men protecting women?

I know this is flippant, but guess who created insurance in the event that even if you make safe decisions, you still have a backup. Technically it's not specifically men specifically protecting women but government policies protecting everyone, but the safety is there for you. The fact that you pay less for it is a nice bonus.

We go to the doctors more. How is that men protecting women?

The majority of medical research since its existence was done by men. The contraceptive pill? Created by Gregory Pincus.

The majority of biological studies that were done for the benefit of women are done by men.

Did you know that drugs are never tested on women, leaving us suffering severe side effects? Let’s talk about all the biases against women in medical care:

Yes. And that same medical care has helped you live longer. It's not perfect, but modern medicine works pretty well.

I forget where I found the article. But they are addressing this. A long way from where I would say it's acceptable, but it's a start.

Because we build social networks and seek help. And you don’t.

Those social networks are part of a community at large that men actively participate in.

Assuming you have a good relationship with your father, he's part of your network that helps keep you alive.

I understand you aren’t capable of analytical thought or research, but let’s not pretend men have always cared.

Neither of us would be here if that were the case. I'd appreciate it in advance if your next response had a coherent argument and didn't boil down to me not Googling enough for you.

Anyway, question. An olive branch if you will.

Why are you dismissing the work and effort of all the people (specifically the men) that have made the effort to make sure you have the opportunity to live longer than anyone else ever has at any point in history?

[–]SnowySummerDreaming -2 points-1 points0 points 1 year ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I know this is flippant, but guess who created insurance in the event that even if you make safe decisions, you still have a backup. Technically it's not specifically men specifically protecting women but government policies protecting everyone, but the safety is there for you. The fact that you pay less for it is a nice bonus.

(Men created insurance for MEN. And in fact BARRED women from accessing it independently from a man, so sorry I won’t be on my knees thanking you for your nobility when you used the power of the law to exclude me.

And the BONUS is an EARNED benefit on the backs of women being safer than men. Nice try buddy but if you pay a penalty, that’s all men’s fault)

We go to the doctors more. How is that men protecting women? The majority of medical research since its existence was done by men. The contraceptive pill? Created by Gregory Pincus.

…

Yes. And that same medical care has helped you live longer. It's not perfect, but modern medicine works

(Lol - “look women, I know we kept you locked out of higher learning and barred from all the labs and universities where modern medicine was developed until the fucking 50s and 60s, but why are you GRATEFUL for what we’ve given you!!!

When men invaded the area of midwifery, death rates went up.

You can thank women for Crspr gene editing, for the development of antifungals, immunosuppressant drugs, and cloning of the HIV virus. Shit when a woman snuck into medical school as a man, she served as Dr Barry for forty years with renown. Amazing what would have happened had men not locked women out of universities, but we are starting to see.)

Those social networks are part of a community at large that men actively participate in.

Assuming you have a good relationship with your father, he's part of your network that helps keep you alive.

(Completely irrelevant and immaterial. Women live longer because we develop networks. Most men don’t. The fault, dear Mercy lies in men, not women. In fact any men have even more limited social networks without women, so my dad should be thanking his wife for being included in the social network she maintains)

….

Neither of us would be here if that were the case. I'd appreciate it in advance if your next response had a coherent argument and didn't boil down to me not Googling enough for you.

(Sorry, dear, next time you should actually THINK about the facile arguments you make - the one over insurance was quite a laugh. As if cold hearted actuaries give a shit about “favoring women.” I understand it’s far easier for you to simply regurgitate your opinions, but if you were as educated in the scientific method as Pincus, you’d know you need to challenge your opinions).

Anyway, question. An olive branch if you will.

Why are you dismissing the work and effort of all the people (specifically the men) that have made the effort to make sure you have the opportunity to live longer than anyone else ever has at any point in history? (How very disingenuous you are - you are offering an olive branch by … insisting I kowtow and praise men? Do you know what an olive branch is? Why don’t you acknowledge it is ridiculous to criticize women for failing to advance medical science while simultaneously barring them from universities? I’ll even give you a parable - a Google assignment no less - why wasn’t Benjamin Banneker teaching one of the US’s founding universities. Why isn’t his name on a DC park or building? Why don’t you know his name?)

[–]Mr-OhLordHaveMercy 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Men created insurance for MEN. And in fact BARRED women from accessing it independently from a man, so sorry I won’t be on my knees thanking you for your nobility when you used the power of the law to exclude me.

You don't have to thank me. You can thank the Affordable Care Act for largely making that no longer the case. The fact that things have changed and progressed shows that people (to include men) care about the people living in the society they created.

Why are we ignoring the context of progress? It's not perfect, but why are we ignoring that overall, we (specifically women in this context) live longer.

And the BONUS is an EARNED benefit on the backs of women being safer than men. Nice try buddy but if you pay a penalty, that’s all men’s fault

A benefit based upon presumption isn't earned, it's a prejudice.

Well it's a lot more nuanced than that. Mainly insurance trying to take advantage of statistics in order to fleece demographics of their money, as they tend to do.

You'd be pissed if you lived your life safely and got charged higher just solely based on your gender.

look women, I know we kept you locked out of higher learning and barred from all the labs and universities where modern medicine was developed until the fucking 50s and 60s, but why are you GRATEFUL for what we’ve given you!

The wrongs don't negate the benefits of progress.

Yes, you should be grateful something was discovered that improved the quality of your life. Even if in context things were unfair for women in education.

You can be grateful and still point out that women were historically disenfranchised.

When men invaded the area of midwifery, death rates went up

And then medicine improved and it went down.

It's not the Renaissance anymore. We no longer use leeches.

You can thank women for Crspr gene editing, for the development of antifungals, immunosuppressant drugs, and cloning of the HIV virus. Shit when a woman snuck into medical school as a man, she served as Dr Barry for forty years with renown.

I am grateful. To not be would make me like you. Ungrateful for no other reason than to be misanthropic.

Completely irrelevant and immaterial. Women live longer because we develop networks. Most men don’t. The fault, dear Mercy lies in men, not women. In fact any men have even more limited social networks without women, so my dad should be thanking his wife for being included in the social network she maintains)

Ignoring the part the men in your community play and calling it immaterial is just ungrateful. If your father doesn't love you, then yeah that sucks, doesn't change the fact that overall men in their community have improved lives.

Assuming your father is in a healthy marriage. His wife is just as grateful to him for being in her life as he is to her.

Sorry, dear, next time you should actually THINK about the facile arguments you make - the one over insurance was quite a laugh. As if cold hearted actuaries give a shit about “favoring women.” I understand it’s far easier for you to simply regurgitate your opinions, but if you were as educated in the scientific method as Pincus, you’d know you need to challenge your opinions

I'm still waiting on a coherent point that doesn't ignore the context and effort of the culmination of human civilization.

In terms of challenging. I'll wager the fact that we all live longer over your misanthropy.

How very disingenuous you are - you are offering an olive branch by … insisting I kowtow and praise men

No. That you explain your reasoning as to why you shouldn't have to be grateful over the fact you live longer and safer than at any point in history and as time goes on civilization will only get better at this.

I assume something happened for you to ignore that the world around you helps you live longer. I wanted to know what the context of what that ideal was.

Why don’t you acknowledge it is ridiculous to criticize women for failing to advance medical science while simultaneously barring them from universities?

I'm not criticizing them. They deserve an opportunity. I'm asking why you would ignore the benefits of modern medicine.

I’ll even give you a parable - a Google assignment no less - why wasn’t Benjamin Banneker teaching one of the US’s founding universities. Why isn’t his name on a DC park or building? Why don’t you know his name?

I don't know what random historical figures have to do with this conversation, but I already know who he is.

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That's just because feminists see any woman who does not tow the party-line as a pick-me. If that's your definition of pick-me, then obviously you're gonna see them everywhere, but that does not mean all of those women are denigrating women and defending men. They might just have their own complex opinion on life that doesn't fit in a more simplistic feminist framework.

Also, feminists are an example of the type of women who should be called out but only rarely are. A lot of feminists are sexist and make up things they can't prove but are almost never called out for it. People tolerate it because calling it out for what it is can get you in trouble.

The example you gave is a good example. What is your proof that women defend men against small dick jokes while men don't defend women against loose pussy jokes? I mean the assumption that these two things are done/said in similar rates is already questionable. I have personally never seen a man make a loose pussy joke before, whether online or irl, so it's not like I even had an opportunity to call it out, the only thing I have seen is men using "loose pussy" as an insult on PPD, after which it usually gets reported and removed. I have seen multiple small dick jokes by both men and women in contrast.

[–]Makuta_ServaelaPurple Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 1 year ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Maffioze26M altruistic individualist 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Pick-Me refers to women who commit self-harm actions for men, and judge other women for not doing the same. Basically, anyone who uses the "not like the other girls" kind of mindset.

I know it refers to that. The issue is that you can stretch the meaning of "self-harm" however broad you want. Many feminists think that a woman not being a feminist constitutes self-harm. Actual pick-me's like justpearlythings are pathetic, but women who simply hold different opinions are often accused for pick-me's for no good reason.

The only version of "feminism" people tolerate is humanism (the "make the sexes equal, patriarchy hurts men too" kind).

They tolerate the perception of that. An actual "make the sexes equal" or "patriarchy harms men too" version of Feminism barely exists at all. It's just that many peopoe perceive inequality in favor of women as equality.

Tbf, it's not something you would notice if you had seen it, since it doesn't affect you.

I mean, I have noticed many cases of men saying sexist things about women. I either call them out or refuse to still associate with them. I have just never heard any man talk about the aesthetics of a pussy, that's literally not a conversation most men have. People of both genders talk about dicks far more often. Granted I'm in Western Europe, it could be different in other places.

You can't call something out that barely happens at all imo.

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How old are you?

Easier than ever to learn anything that interests you?

My Grandfather left school with zero qualifications, walked into a local job in a rural area where he worked less than 30 hours a week and was able to buy a beautiful cottage in the countryside with a few years of wages in his early 20's, he got a promotion where he worked his entire life and was able to provide for an entire family with enough money leftover for luxury items like boats, fancy cars, golf, holiday homes and he still to this day has money left over during his retirement. He also got company benefits and free healthcare.

Meanwhile my eldest brother has a law degree yet he's stuck working retail for over 50 hours a week, he's in a house share with three other men because he can't afford to rent out a mouldy shitbox with no heating despite working his ass off. He doesn't have a social life because 1. it's too expensive and 2. he's always in work. He can't afford to insure or maintain a car, he can't even afford driving lessons or take the damn test which is hundreds of times more difficult than it was for my Grandfather. He's in serious debt due to his education which alone took 4-5x the hours to study for compared to a few decades ago and costed multiple times more. Our healthcare system is completely ruined, crime rates are increasing and there's areas where Women can't even go out at night anymore, Divorce rates are higher, cheating statistics are higher, singleness statistics are higher, self deletion rates are MULTIPLE times higher.

The working class don't have time to learn things to interest them, we're in survival mode all we do is work and sleep!

[–]DumbWordsmithSolo Dolo Pill Man 2 points3 points4 points 1 year ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm 33.

I have instant access to any information I want. I can watch endless online tutorials, and I can order pretty much any book and have it delivered within the next few days.

My great grandparents weren't going on fancy vacations or riding in boats all day on a blue collar salary. That's Western boomer shit. The ride was nice while it lasted, but that type of lifestyle has never been normal for any other average man throughout human history.

Accept it and move on. Life is short for everyone and challenging for anyone who's not born into a filthy rich family, but being envious of another person's freebies is a waste of time.

Maybe the fact that I was born in a shithole makes me appreciate what I have infinitely more. Nowadays, the vast majority of my life consists of working, cooking, exercising, studying, and camping — and I love it. Where I live, I have the right to protect myself, and it's insanely easy for me to lead a healthy lifestyle. Overall, my life is peaceful.

Our culture is garbage because we abandoned pretty much everything that got us here, and I guess we're all going to learn that the hard way.

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Title	Why Don’t Women Defend Men Like Men Defend Women?
Author	Responsible_Mind_259
Upvotes	116
Comments	366
Date	March 2, 2025 9:55 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1j22m2a/why_dont_women_defend_men_like_men_defend_women/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-dont-women-defend-men-like-men-defend-women.1545439 https://theredarchive.com/post/1545439

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