695,868 posts

Men are not happy

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June 5, 2014
1727 upvotes

About once every month or two, there’s a post somewhere on Reddit, by a woman, saying something like, “My boyfriend suddenly started doing Red Pill stuff and now I want out,” followed by 4-6 paragraphs explaining how her boyfriend is now a controlling, abusive asshole who works out and wants sex (because these traits are, of course, very, very unique to The Red Pill, and any guy who exhibits them obviously went online, found us, and we ruined him). These threads get seized upon by our detractors, who eagerly point out: “See? See!? The Red Pill doesn’t ‘work’ ! It just ends relationships and turns guys into assholes!”

Independent of what is and is not actually “Red Pill behavior,” situations like these are based a bad assumption. Simply put, in examples like this, the lamenting woman has presupposed that prior to her man’s “changes”, their relationship was actually good, and he was actually happy. Then he ruined everything by reading some bullshit online that told him how his relationship ought to be, then trying to implement it.

This begs the question: If the relationship was fine before the boyfriend went all Red Pill on his woman, why is he trying to change things? Why did he go on the internet and seek out the manosphere? If he’s happy with his relationship the way it is, why is he trying to find ways to improve his sex life and become more assertive? (All of this, of course, assumes that a) the stories presented on Reddit are true; and b) the man actually sought out The Red Pill and didn’t just stop kissing his girlfriend’s ass for any number of other reasons.)

The Red Pill is here because men aren’t happy. They don’t want to be sweet and sensitive and do things for women all day long and be the “perfect boyfriend,” while having subpar sex once every six weeks, paying out the ass for expensive dates and gifts, sacrificing personal time, and getting bitched at and threatened with a break-up if any of this perfect behavior ever dips slightly. They don’t want to give backrubs and footrubs, stay at home one weekend a month while their women have a night out with the girls, get disrespected and talked about behind their backs, get cheated on (but just harmless, meaningless mistakes that don’t really count!), and get berated when they push back against any of this. They don’t want to let women move in, rent-free, and get pressured to buy a ring for a four-digit number of dollars and tie their finances to someone who makes less than half as much money, just because they’ve been “dating awhile” and “it’s time” and they’re “supposed to.”

Sure, everything’s hunky-dory for these girlfriends, but for the men, everything is NOT happy. Everything is NOT going well. And men are sick of it.

When a 28-year-old man with an entitled bitch of a girlfriend of 5 years stumbles across the Red Pill, he reads stories about men not so much older than he is who don’t have or want girlfriends. They don’t need a girlfriend because they have four or five women fucking their brains out on a regular basis outside of a relationship. They barely spend a cent on dates or activities. They barely lift a finger to impress women. But girls can’t seem to get enough of them.

And what these men do seems so simple. Work out, focus on your career, practice your social skills and get confident, develop useful skills and interesting hobbies – essentially, quit wasting time. Read non-fiction instead of fiction, watch less TV, play less video games, quit jerking off to porn, spend that time doing something that makes you physically, mentally, or socially better. The Red Pill tells men that their time is valuable, and to use it well. Hand in hand with that, The Red Pill tells men that since their time is their most valuable resource, quit wasting it on women when you’re not getting something of equal value in return. If your girlfriend is ugly, sexually ungenerous, lazy, or just an entitled bitch that expects you to do all kinds of crap for her just to maintain the pleasure of having a girlfriend, is it really worth all of the time and energy you expend? When you could be doing something that actually improves your life?

The Red Pill exists because many men aren’t happy. Because these relationships that are allegedly “just fine” are very much NOT just fine. Because men are giving so much to their women and getting so little, with the assumption that merely existing – merely being a presence in the man’s life – is all a woman needs to do to become his highest priority. That men should be falling over themselves getting in line for the right to say “I have a girlfriend,” and nothing more. Men are sick of this.

Guys in the “my man went Red Pill and ruined our relationship” Reddit posts probably aren’t actually going to internet sites to get an instruction manual for how to piss off their girlfriends. They’re just normal guys who know in the pit of their stomach that something is wrong – that they’re wasting their lives, and that they’re not happy. It’s not their girlfriends’ fault, it’s theirs. And they decide one day, for whatever reason, to try to take control of their lives, of their relationships, and build something they’re actually proud of. And steps 1 and 2 of that process involve asserting yourself and living the way you want, and expecting the people with whom you associate (e.g., your woman) to add value to your life equal to the value you’re expending. The rest of the world shorthands that behavior as “being an asshole,” and “ruining relationships.” How sad is that? Honestly and confidently pursuing the life you want, and expecting others to hold up their end of a relationship is the new Hitler.


Post Information
Title Men are not happy
Author Archwinger
Upvotes 1727
Comments 428
Date 05 June 2014 03:28 PM UTC (6 years ago)
Subreddit TheRedPill
Link https://theredarchive.com/post/16315
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/TheRedPill/comments/27dzrm/men_are_not_happy/
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Comments

[–][deleted] 147 points147 points | Copy

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[–]HDThoreauaway26 points27 points  (6 children) | Copy

an LTR is a closer relationship that calls for more compromise, but men are trained by culture to not compromise, just give in.

TRP doesn't talk a whole lot about how to effectively compromise, though. I suspect if you posted a thread entitled, "Effective compromising The Red Pill Way," it'd be chock-full of blue arrows in no time.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (2 children) | Copy

I think members of TRP are aware of its radical element. By this, I mean, TRP members aren't coming here to learn how to "effective communicate". They're learning when and how to stand their ground.

TRP advocates some hardball tactics. Members are supposed to recognize when hardball isn't called for.

It would be like advocating a more liberal use of the impeachment process, or a more restrained and limited use of judicial activism. It's an extreme measure in and of itself, so its avocation is limited to the margins of an existing political equilibrium.

It would be like advising to a management board of a retail company that they host a huge sale, with 50% of retail prices etc. It's understood that the sale wouldn't last long relative to their normal operation.

Extreme measures should be used sparingly.

TRP is a natural reaction to men having lost the right to EVER use hardball tactics. Men are always rewarded for "taking the high road", which used to mean something, but now it just means to take everyone's shit.

TRP advocates how and when to use extreme measures.

When it comes to doing effective compromises, I don't know if I would let on that I'm even in a bartering position with a woman. With men, you state your cases and make your points in a normal conversation, listen to theirs, figure out where the solutions are being pointed towards, and then you start bartering. You both start high, and you edge your way to meeting towards the middle.

I would be hard pressed to attempt this with a woman.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think there is some danger in red pill "going mainstream" for this reason. It does have a fight or flight element to it, and I also think it has an intelligence threshold to it also which means there will be plenty of people attempting to swallow it that won't be able to grasp it. My worry is having a new crop of red pillers that don't understand how to pick battles or compromise and then turn into a bunch of hot heads that start fights over people cutting in line at the grocery store because "I don't take shit, I'm alpha"

[–][deleted] 4 points4 points | Copy

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[–][deleted] 2 points2 points | Copy

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[–]poindeckster1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I just found this sub, and I totally agree. My opinnion may be biased as a 16 y.o. but it has surrounded me and my life. People cant see the manipulation of these dom/sub mentalities where we have to woo and cater. There are such things as egalitarian relationships. And the fucked up part is how brainwashed women are made to switch modes like clockwork. Either they are submissive and leeching on you or they are assholes intent on asserting their independence. This is an extreme example, but the characteristics are there in many women not raised to think implicitly and conscious of these things

[–]AgentSmith274 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

TRP doesn't mean you have to be a complete jerk, just that you have to channel your inner jerk to overcome your programming. Maybe some guys go too far the other way, but mostly it's just guys realizing "Wait a minute, why am I letting her get away with this shit?". Where " this shit" is treatment that would get the ASPCA called, if he were a dog.

The problem is, I think a lot of people here buy into the "being a jerk" BS, and give it back as advice to others. Like every other sub, there are a ton of different opinions... and like other subs, a decent portion of them are from college aged kids (and younger) who have no clue what the hell they are doing, but think they do.

You also have a ton of people who just want to have sex (nothing more) and don't even believe in long term relationships. They give advice to people in long term relationships, and those two worlds simply do not mesh well.

Its a case of too many cooks in the kitchen.

[–]Buchloe1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Good call

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

They give advice to people in long term relationships, and those two worlds simply do not mesh well.

Its a case of too many cooks in the kitchen.

I'd like to figure out who the LTR Red Piller guys are over the constant plate spinning Red Piller guys.

I'm old enough and that's up to where I realize what plate spinning advice is and long-term relationship advice is

But for our newer readers(digesters of TRP) the wisdom is only applicable in certain avenues.

[–]TRP VanguardJP_Whoregan422 points423 points  (177 children) | Copy

Nominate for post of the week.

The "alarming" (as the MSM puts it) drop in the American marriage rate is a sign that men are "waking up" at a rate faster than they're finding /r/theredpill or any other part of the manosphere. Feminism and female entitlement have been kicking men in the crotch for the last 40 years. It was only a matter of time before men started revolting.

I'm just curious how so many women are knowledgeable enough to call it "acting all red pill"; i.e., identifying us by name...it's not like this philosophy gets discussed on daytime talk shows...or does it?

[–]1Mikesapien101 points102 points  (3 children) | Copy

I'm just curious how so many women are knowledgeable enough to call it "acting all red pill"; i.e., identifying us by name...

Reminds me of a story.

In 1755, when Samuel Johnson published his Dictionary of the English Language, a group of ladies approached him, congratulating him for his work, and thanking him for not including dirty words, to which he responded, "What? My dears! Then you have been looking them up!" As the story goes, "The ladies, confused at being thus caught, dropped the subject of the dictionary."

Hill, Norman & Birkbeck, George (Eds).

Johnsonian Miscellanies, Vol. II.

London, UK: James Press, 1897. 390.

[–]LadyLumen8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

The ironic thing is that the Feminists who criticize TRP on their tumblrs are probably the source of TRP's publicity. I found TRP through a Feminist friend who was complaining about it. From what many other people have said, they did the same thing.

[–]ColdEiric2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

We give them something to cry about, and they send new members to convert.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

That's amazing, and the best part is that history always repeats itself!

[–][deleted] 66 points67 points  (2 children) | Copy

I think any woman who uses reddit and has a boyfriend will blame any change that doesn't positively and completely cater to her as redpill.

[–]Endorsed Contributorgekkozorz22 points23 points  (0 children) | Copy

It has to be SOMEONE's fault, because it sure as hell can't be hers.

[–]Sturmgeist78129 points30 points  (0 children) | Copy

Pretty much SRS and AskReddit subscribers in a nutshell.

[–]Endorsed ContributorLastRevision68 points69 points  (11 children) | Copy

Remember also that pursuing marriage post-wall is a fairly new concept for women. Only 20 year ago this may have meant getting married AT THE WALL (26-30), but recently many women have wanted to postpone marriage to exclusively post-wall territory (32-36). This excludes the men who may have been interested when they were 26-30 and only leaves men whom they feel superior to.

[–]AnotherLostCause97 points98 points  (7 children) | Copy

I think this is at the heart of the problem, the desire to be married passes as men age. Women, however, have been sold on the idea that captain save a hoe billionaire adventurer with sixpack abs is just waiting in the wings. Waiting for that moment when the post wall, post carousel damsel needs to slap on a ring during a thirty thousand dollar wedding and then squeeze out a panic child or two. Women are like children of wealth who get a lump sum check at the age of 18. They blow through their inheritence and suddenly in their mid thirties they find out they are broke, but they still want the lifestyle they had when they were rich.

[–]temparooney17 points18 points  (3 children) | Copy

Men's desire to marry doesn't necessarily pass as they get over 30 or whatever. But they don't have a desire to marry a woman who is as old as they are. Not if they're smart anyway, and are planning kids. Their fertility is still fine, but a woman's expires.

[–]formerbptherapist5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

Agreed. Also, what I've observed is that men tend to look at the patterns of a partner's past more than women do, who tend to look more at future potential with greater scrutiny.

[–]teeelo1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Little late reply, but I wanted to show some WOW to your comment. What a fascinating thing to think about.

[–]2johnnight0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

The desire goes away for 20 years and resurfaces past 50. (G. Clooney)

[–]ButterMyBiscuit4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Women are like children of wealth who get a lump sum check at the age of 18. They blow through their inheritence and suddenly in their mid thirties they find out they are broke, but they still want the lifestyle they had when they were rich.

Hot damn. I'll commit this to memory, so accurate.

[–]borderline_sociopath15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy

Women are like children of wealth who get a lump sum check at the age of 18. They blow through their inheritence and suddenly in their mid thirties they find out they are broke, but they still want the lifestyle they had when they were rich.

This is amazing. Perfect analogy. I see many women around town and at work who were probably pretty damn hot, partying their asses off on Spring Break in Ft Lauderdale in the late 80s. Since reading RP material a few years ago, I started paying more attention to how they acted, and I began to see the sliding scale of wall acceptance.

Some of these 38-48 year olds were still dressing like they were 25, and were expecting male attention in the form they used to garner. Others seemed resigned to their place in life and seemed to accept that they were less visible to men every day. There was a real sadness about them, both in those still expecting attention and those who have given up.

[–]dan78881 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

You said it sooo right. I'm from the fucking south, and all them southern belle's.

[–]DanReggins32 points33 points  (2 children) | Copy

only leaves men whom they feel superior to.

... and men who can now get someone younger and hotter, or would rather be alone.

[–][deleted] 28 points29 points  (1 child) | Copy

Which means that the only ones left are the inferior men.

[–]zephyrprime28 points29 points  (6 children) | Copy

I don't even think that's the case. I think the drop in marriage rate is due to the expanding pool of divorcees. Divorces only started happening at high rates starting in the '70s. The divorce rate has been high (~50%) since then. However, although the divorce rate is high and has been high for a few decades now, the older demographic has still retained a low divorce rate. So when the divorce rate reached 50% in the late 70s, this rate only applied to people newly married and not to people who had already been married for many years. Now, people in their thirties in the late 70's and already outside the danger zone for divorce back then are now about 70 years old. They are starting to die off. That is to say, the entire pool of people not infected by the dysfunctional, poisonous bluepill culture is slowly dying off while the pool of high divorce rate demographics (hippie era and beyond) is slowly taking over the population.

It's not really due to the redpill. The red pill is still a tiny movement followed by <1% of the population.

[–][deleted] 32 points33 points  (3 children) | Copy

Every western male since the 70's has been witness to the previous generation getting screwed over. Two of my three sons have said " We don't need a girl friend they're to expensive." The youngest one has a GF and is perpetually broke.

[–]AnotherLostCause22 points23 points  (0 children) | Copy

There was a very old song my grandfather would sing the chorus of all the time. "When I was single my pockets did jingle. I wish I was single again."

[–]manwhy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

How old are your sons?

[–]Endorsed ContributorWe_Are_Legion1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

movement

Please stop calling it that. We're nothing of the sort. Redpill does not try to change society. We have no agenda. Hell, if we were a movement we'd have a PR department and we'd care what people think about us. Which we really don't. We're not in it to change the world. Just to get the best deal individually possible.

[–]teeelo0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

And I sincerely hope it stays that way.

[–]slcjosh178 points179 points  (58 children) | Copy

Anyone who uses reddit knows what people SAY about TRP. They dont know fuckall about TRP, just what someone said in a post.

[–]Ymeynotu96 points97 points  (54 children) | Copy

This times 1000x

Reddit and the mass herding of jackassery is prevalent beyond all imagination. It blows my mind that people think trp is false. Those that think this way don't know trp and lack life experience. It's the only possible explanation. However some people are also probably engaged in a disinformation campaign to discredit trp for their own nefarious agenda.

[–]Modredpillschool180 points181 points  (34 children) | Copy

Well you've got an interesting effect happening- people take offense to certain things. They see us recommending alpha behaviors as trying to enforce gender roles- which it isn't. It's us saying "hey we found this works better, give it a try.." not "we need more people to do this, let's force this new behavior on unsuspecting people.."

Or when we criticize a woman's sexual strategy (she was a slut in her 20s and now can't find a man), they think that we're over here hating women for having sex, but what we're really doing is pointing out that her strategy was bad if her desire was a long-term partner.

Then they think we're bad for not wanting to date a slut, more hatred, but the reality is, we're only 55,000 people, but that slut who is now husband hunting is realizing that it's not just red pillers, but attractive men in general who aren't that interested in used up goods. Whether we're here to notice it or not is irrelevant, this effect happens.

So people take offense to these observations we make, because they believe we're doing what they do, which is try to change the world to their own ideals.. instead of what we actually do, which is recognize the world and adapt to it.

Even with this point I'm trying to make, the direct response of any postmodern blue piller is "What do you mean 'used up goods?'" Vaginas don't just go bad from having sex. You guys are so misogynistic!" They are so hellbent on getting offended that they don't understand the words we use are to convey an idea- not prove it. Of course you're not actually used up. The point is men prefer non-sluts. No, blue pillers will get so caught up on the language they'll miss the forest for the trees every time.

[–]Endorsed ContributorRedPillDad97 points98 points  (2 children) | Copy

They are so hellbent on getting offended

Some people are too dumb to learn, and some are too smart. The three most dangerous words you can tell yourself are “I know that” because when you’re too smart to learn, you’ll dismiss the power of ideas and fail to implement anything.

One of the traps people fall into is confirmation bias - only seeking validation for what they already know and do. The eyes only see and the ears only hear what the mind is looking for.

blue pillers will get so caught up on the language...

My wife is like this. She's incredibly sensitive to the emotional impact of words. I like going for maximum impact, because the last thing you want to be is boring. But sometimes she responds as if the words jumped off the page and slapped her in the face.

Bluepillers have become ladylike in their sensitivity to language, political correctness and concern over appearing judgmental. Our straight talk sounds hostile to their delicate ears.

[–]TasmanianTigerBlues48 points49 points  (1 child) | Copy

I love this. People are getting so fucking soft. Just to talk straight with someone causes them to think you're a sexist, politically incorrect asshole. It shows how much they've been conditioned to reel back in terror when they hear ideas that don't align with their own. I love getting down to the nitty gritty and talking about real shit with people, but so many can't stand it. They don't realize it's actually because they're afraid to face the truth, all thanks to societal programming.

[–]1RXRob0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

To paraphrase Ricky Gervais, just because you're offended doesn't mean that you're in the right

[–]TRP VanguardJP_Whoregan30 points31 points  (10 children) | Copy

They see us recommending alpha behaviors as trying to enforce gender roles-

That's just it. If women adhered to gender roles, there would be no need for TRP. Things would still be like it was in the old days, where women sought providership as a primary driver in mate selection. They sought a balance in a/b traits. But now, they want pure A-traits, because they can satisfy providership on their own now. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. And TRP is the direct reaction to modern day feminism and egalitarianism.

Feminism changed the playing field, but at the same time is also trying to insist men still play by the old rules. They know that if every man on earth was wise to TRP, there would be a dry supply of thirsty simps waiting to cuckold their alpha babies when they hit the wall.

[–][deleted] 29 points30 points  (4 children) | Copy

I think it's actually a bit the other way around. I believe that any time a society - any society - reaches a certain level of safety and wealth then decadent behavior from anyone who can afford to do it will appear.

Women are of course the leaders in this regard but I highly doubt that women in the 1700s, 1100s or Antiquity would have behaved much differently if given the chance like modern women have. Hypergamy doesn't care, and the sheer amount of largess that the modern West has to throw around means that women face little consequence for their actions.

Traditional society's rules were invented precisely because women's default is unlimited Hypergamy.

[–]TRP VanguardJP_Whoregan27 points28 points  (3 children) | Copy

Traditional society's rules were invented precisely because women's default is unlimited Hypergamy.

Slut shaming. If women in the middle ages behaved like the women today do, they'd be cast out of society and left to starve at best, or executed at worst. Society cannot survive in the throes of unchecked hypergamy, and I think modern western culture today is about where the Roman Empire was in the twilight of its existence. "All roads led to Rome", people were fucking like rabbits, and society got drunk on it's own wealth and success. Wait a minute, that sounds familiar...

[–][deleted] 46 points47 points  (1 child) | Copy

During the decline of the Roman Empire:

"The later Romans complained that, although Rome ruled the world, women ruled Rome." -Sir John Glubb

Taken from p. 15 here: http://people.uncw.edu/kozloffm/glubb.pdf

Much more afterwards. I urge everyone read it.

[–]Modredpillschool6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

"The later Romans complained that, although Rome ruled the world, women ruled Rome." -Sir John Glubb

Taken from p. 15 here: http://people.uncw.edu/kozloffm/glubb.pdf

Much more afterwards. I urge everyone read it.

Good find ♂

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." ~George Santayana

Forgive me for waxing perhaps too philosophical, but one of my biggest frustrations with humans (including myself) is that we refuse to admit our stupid tendencies to fall to the worst we can possibly be. No one gets better by not trying or by embracing who they are: I only become a better person by working my butt off and not liking what I see in the mirror.

[–]through_a_ways23 points24 points  (0 children) | Copy

For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. And TRP is the direct reaction to modern day feminism and egalitarianism.

Value, value, value. Women want value.

Women are more inherently valuable than men, with everything else held constant. A woman as a very limited reproductive potential, PLUS she has to gestate the baby. The male is hitching a free ride when he has kids.

Of course, nothing is without an equal and opposite reaction, and because sexual reproduction advantages males more, the following evolved:

  • high male sex drive (because they have nothing to lose in reproduction)
  • female hypergamy (beacuse they have everything to lose)

Since women are inherently higher value, a man has to be higher value than the woman in order to equalize a relationship. In the past, this was easy: men accumulated the resources. Women couldn't. Thus, the genders were equal.

1st world living comes around, and women can access resources without marrying men. In other words, women have the same status and financial ability as men. They have fewer men to "marry up" to now. Hypergamy is harder for women to accomplish, which makes them shun the bulk of men, which means sex is harder for men to accomplish.

Feminism undermines women's natural drive (hypergamy) which in turn undermines men's (sexual intercourse)

What TRP does is counter this. Devalue women by not validating them (until they validate you). Female devaluation means hypergamy can be achieved again, and both genders are happier to show for it.

[–]the99percent18 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

They know that if every man on earth was wise to TRP, there would be a dry supply of thirsty simps waiting to cuckold their alpha babies when they hit the wall.

QFT.

If every man is well versed in TRP, how would they differentiate the low value men from the high values ones? It will be impossible!

That's what offends them the most. That alpha traits can be assimilated and learnt.That their dream high value man can be taught and mastered.

It offends them that low value men can improve their situation if they swallowed trp.

[–]razor51510 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Can you please explain what this means-"there would be a dry supply of thirsty simps waiting to cuckold their alpha babies when they hit the wall."

[–]TRP VanguardJP_Whoregan1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

That was a typo, I meant to say "wouldn't" be a supply of thirsty simps to cuckold their alpha babies when they hit the wall.

In other words, if every man on the planet got wise to the current female strategy of "fuck alpha men, have their babies, then lock down a beta to care for it later", you'd have more men practicing game, improving themselves, and refusing to be that beta sucker.

This is why they despise TRP so much, and say we're the worst sub on Reddit. If we were just full of shit and didn't know what we were talking about, we wouldn't have almost 80k subs, and have such seething rage directed at us by fems. If we were full of shit, we'd just be laughed at and dismissed, not raged upon.

[–]razor51511 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thanks for explaining. I'm not American, and English isn't my first language, so i didnt get what "simps" meant.

Have a nice day.

[–]vaker43 points44 points  (11 children) | Copy

you're not actually used up

Multiple partners do take a toll on women psychologically. They become less able to function in a monogamous relationship. There is data showing correlation (and likely causation) between high partner count of women and the lack of stability of their (late) marriages.

Physically they also collect various viruses, herpes, whatnot leading to potentially less healthy children.

So yes, they do get used up in a broad sense of the word.

What sane male needs all this?

[–]esco_1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

While it may be true that high partner count may be correlated with instability in marriage, it is going too far to suggest that it is causal (there is no evidence for this)

It is just as likely there is another (or several) variables influencing both. For instance, maybe a <insert personality variable here> woman will have a causal role in her having lots of partners, as well as unstable relationships.

In the end, the correlation is still valuable. We can use it as a predictor - If she's slept with many guys, it is also likely she will be unsuitable as a partner for whatever reason.

The correlation isn't useless as it provides valuable info (including the risk of STDs like u suggest), but causation requires more proof

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

I agree with the idea that a high partner count shows negative things about a woman, but I don't think it caused her to have those problems; a high partner count is probably the effect of the underlying issues, not the cause. As in, a girl with poor judgement, low self esteem and standards will end up with a high partner count; and I bet you could tell even before they started fucking the whole town just what type of girl they would be.

[–]kellykebab0 points1 point  (8 children) | Copy

There is data

Source?

And it doesn't really need to be said, but promiscuous men are similarly at risk for STDs.

[–]through_a_ways3 points4 points  (5 children) | Copy

Source?

google "marriage rate partner count", it's a green graph.

[–]kellykebab0 points1 point  (4 children) | Copy

Fascinating, thanks.

I'd be curious to know how male promiscuity affects marriage stability. And I wonder if there is a more fundamental cause or causes that produce both pre-marriage promiscuity and marriage instability. I suspect there is. [edit: Well actually, maybe it's this: One factor that seems to affect infidelity across cultures is low paternal investment.]

[–]through_a_ways2 points3 points  (3 children) | Copy

I'd be curious to know how male promiscuity affects marriage stability.

I'd be very surprised if it weren't a positive relationship. If a man is promiscuous it means he's desirable, and a woman would be less apt to divorce a desirable partner (something like 80% of divorces are initiated by women). Promiscuous male = successful marriage.

I wonder if there is a more fundamental cause or causes that produce both pre-marriage promiscuity and marriage instability.

Digit ratio

Social status as well, interracial divorce statistics support this.

[–]kellykebab1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy

Digit ratio

Huh?

By social status, I'm guessing that you mean low social status women tend to be more promiscuous and less stable in marriage, correct?

Also, note my edit above. Linked quote goes to an academic paper which investigates the predictors of infidelity.

edit: If it's true that generally 10% of men fuck 90% of women as many around here claim and also that promiscuous men and chaste women are more successful in marriage than their counterparts, then we really have little hope of maintaining the stability of marriage for the vast majority of the population (~90% in fact). In other words, the system seems to be beyond repair.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

No, women have a much greater risk of contracting STDs and the effects are worse for women as well.

[–]temparooney9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

They object to the very idea of avoiding sluts.

They object to the very idea of avoiding single moms.

Saying these things brings out a lot of abuse from them. They can't quite say we don't have a right to our preferences, but they can call them misogynistic.

Hey I like vaginas (i.e. am not misogynistic.) I just like them not-used-up. And I don't want to raise another man's kid.

And if they hate that, they are entitled their hatred. Just as I am entitled to my preferences.

[–]TasmanianTigerBlues8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy

So people take offense to these observations we make, because they believe we're doing what they do, which is try to change the world to their own ideals.. instead of what we actually do, which is recognize the world and adapt to it.

Very well said. Someone once said (paraphrasing) that the things you don't like about someone are the things you don't like about yourself. I think this idea works with what you pointed out. Everything else you said was great too. I'm new to these theories so at first I was very confused and slightly offended by this sub, but the more I hear perspectives like this, the more it actually aligns with my gut feelings about who I am and the world around me. I actually find myself (in the occult saying) "rejoicing in the laughter of wisdom", where I find my being actually more at peace, more aware, and more happy and confident when I stop resisting these ideas that are already inherent in me. I literally start laughing when I think about them because of how true they are, and that helps me disillusion myself from my lifelong conditioning.

I'm planning on writing a post on here about the parallels of occult and metaphysical ideas, red pill concepts, and conspiracy theories regarding feminism, the new world order and the balance of female and male energies. I don't know what the mods will think of that, but my intention is to point out the need to exercise our true masculine energy, and to understand and empathize with what we're up against regarding the oppression of men (and women, which I'll explain in the post) in order to transcend it.

[–]an0n4btc5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

I'd find that interesting, just try to tie in the financial angle as well. How women entering the workforce has shifted employment dynamics and less men are as successful in the workforce than previously.

One of my theories is that when men become so unsuccessful in the workforce (and ultimately in other financial matters, noting the increase in years of work required to pay off the median mortgage) they lose the drive towards success in other areas of their lives, hence the increase in bad relationships and divorce (because they developed a behavior of settling for second best, and the women walking out on them when the men here go deep blue pill) and even more men leaving the reservation (mothers basement dwellers happy with porn, junk food and the latest video game).

It simply became more prevalent because the job market hasn't grown fast enough to accumulate the historically abnormal influx of employee candidates created when women entered the workforce en masse (example 9 jobs for every 10 people turned into the same amount of jobs for 20 people).

Not to discourage those that remain/return to the 'nest' (where possible) since it was traditionally the norm that a home would be shared by multiple generations of the same family. Ultimately the 'shaming' of that is another tool in the financial business arsenal to game more people into debtors slavery (the paycheck lifestyle to pay off the mortgage).

That went longer than I intended but yeah, I think your topics would make an interesting post.

[–]TasmanianTigerBlues1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Thank you for adding that idea, that definitely ties into what I want to convey, and I'll be sure to include that as in depth as I can.

[–]avirdi1231 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Hello mate did you ever end up writing the article? Would be fascinating to read.

[–]TRP VanguardCyralea7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is my experience with women and emotional types. You could convey a bullet-proof response with an analogy thrown in there to make it even easier to understand and they'll respond 90% of the time with "So you think women are dogs???" Way to miss the point.

Feelz before realz. They can't even begin to broach a debate unless they feel warm and good internally. Absolutely maddening to engage them in discussion.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Saving this post to quote/link in the future when I notice people going on tangents about TRP.

[–]Pentdad 39 points39 points [recovered] | Copy

Very true, shown recently by the kid who went on the rampage in LA. I saw numerous posts in other subs about how he was part of a red pill sexist evil clan and whatnot, when in fact he was the very opposite of what red pill is all about. I reiterate- he was the very opposite.

[–]Ymeynotu30 points31 points  (2 children) | Copy

I graduated from ucsb so I am very aware of this tragic event.

The guy even lived on the same cross-streets as me! crazy!

I got 15 down votes in this sub for mentioning how BP he was.

He was total BP. Nothing at all RP about him whatsoever.

[–]sithman2510 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

The reason why he is BP is that instead of realizing his failures as HIS fault he blames the world.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

The last time I was in IV I went into that very damn store to buy cigs.

It's safe to say that quitting smoking is probably the safest thing I ever did.

[–]Endorsed ContributorWe_Are_Legion8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

He was actually a very frequent visitor of PUAHate.com.

I don't see the logic when he's made out to be RP. He hated the guts of people like us. I don't doubt if he knew for sure experienced successful redpillers, they would have been targets for him.

[–]TattedGuyser6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

Well this is exactly it, feminism conditioned him to believe that if he was nice, bought things for girls, treated them like royalty, etc, etc then he would have the woman of his dreams. Seeing as he had money and came from a very wealthy background, he also felt entitled to this, nothing we say here ever gives anyone the idea they are entitled to anything in life. Everyone must earn what they get and it's extremely important to do so.

[–]Humankeg13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy

People that ignorantly refute trp usually are one of two things: a bitch that doesn't want her good life to change, or a pussy that has had very little to no experience in a relationship he is actually happy in because he is too desperate to have someone.

Its amazing that so few women believe in the concept that 10% of males sleep with 90% of women (numbers are arbitrary) and that the 10% of guys generally lean towards trip behavior.

[–][deleted] 34 points35 points  (8 children) | Copy

Naw dude were totally all neckbeards who never get laid and who hate women, there's no way in an advance society someone can have a RP like mentality, impossible!

[–]Endorsed Contributorgekkozorz53 points54 points  (1 child) | Copy

I always chuckle when people say "LOL those TRPers are just a bunch of 'nice guys' who are sad that they're in the friendzone and think that being nice means women owe them sex."

If they'd spent 2 seconds in this sub, they'd know that no one laughs at friendzoned nice guys more than us. The only thing Redditors actually know about us is what others have told them to believe, because most Redditors need to have others do their thinking for them.

[–]temparooney13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy

Well we laugh in a way. But we also provide advice, real usable advice on getting out of fz, moving on, getting to a better place.

And that's what some women really hate. The guys are becoming uncontrollable.

[–]FrontTooth21 points22 points  (5 children) | Copy

Dont forget the misogyny!

[–]slcjosh40 points41 points  (2 children) | Copy

I love how being masculine, physically fit, and stoic is considered misogynistic in todays society.

[–]Thzae5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

Self improvement is sexist bro.

[–]slcjosh0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

So sexist.

[–]colovick27 points28 points  (1 child) | Copy

Yes... Holding women accountable for their actions and treating them like they can make their own decisions is totally the same as woman hating

[–]2 Senior Endorsed Contributorvengefully_yours15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy

Expecting women to take responsibility along with the benefits is misogynistic.

[–]duglock2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

It blows my mind that people think trp is false. Those that think this way don't know trp and lack life experience.

Couldn't agree more. I would take a guess that the majority of men here discovered TRP on their own and only later discovered there was a name for it. I think the gap comes between people who regularly criticize themselves - which is the only way to improve yourself as an individual and in society - and those who were fed the self-esteem bullshit and grew up with the inability to see themselves capable of any fault(s).

[–]iStillEatSnakes1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I bet that ist the lack of life experience. It seems that younger men (highschool age up to 23-24) are naturally 'beta' while older men are just alpha as fuck. It definitely is life experience, and a little bit of guidence. Unfortunately, as its stated here we are lackibg this. I know that feminism is the big boogeyman on here but i think this lack of guidence is the result of several generations of latck-key-kids.

Furthermore, on the topic of gender roles, my grandpa and his 3 sons (my father included) spent their summers working in the fields under the hot sun from sun up til sundown. My grandma and the daughter spent that same time in the cool brick house making lunch and bringing drinking water for the men. Patriarchy! Just like in economics the prices of goods go to their natural levels by the rules of supply and demat so too geneder roles develope naturally out of the division of labor. Those that can lift heavy shit, do. Those that cannot, do something else. Its no coincidence that across all continents and all peoples/cultures traditional roles more-or-less hold true.

[–]DannyDemotta5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

I've heard this place mentioned negatively several times in TumblrInAction posts - as if it's OK to mock these Tumblr/Feminazi attitudes, but doing the reverse (inverse?) - being proactive with your life - is somehow shameful.

Subbed to both - no idea how to make my life and relationships better by reading TiA, but getting a much better idea being around these parts.

[–]bitchdantkillmyvibe21 points22 points  (0 children) | Copy

You know what I find fucking HILARIOUS about people who slander TRP? Everytime in a thread linking to us or one of our posts, the top comment is always some faggot going "Wow, I tried to read that, but I couldn't get past the first sentence because I was laughing too much, lolololol". Well, yeah, you just proved your own ignorance right there cunt, you read the first sentence and now you think you're allowed to have a fully-formed opinion of us? Go fuck yourself. As you said, people know JACKSHIT about this place.

[–]CarpeDiem80737 points38 points  (66 children) | Copy

I think that's a sentiment a bit generous to the significance of red pill thinking as a philosophical movement. The value of marriage has dropped collectively in the minds of men for all sorts of reasons.

[–][deleted] 56 points56 points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–]TRP VanguardJP_Whoregan107 points108 points  (30 children) | Copy

Just look at any female online dating profile, and all you'll see are statements like "what I'm looking for" and "I need someone who is like this" or "you must be at least xyz height to pass go" - you'll never see anyone who has anything to offer or give.

I was thinking of starting a list of the platitudes and vapid phrases commonly found on the modern woman's online dating profile. Stuff like:

  • "I like to have fun" - no shit, bitch, who the hell doesn't like to have fun?
  • "I like to travel" - translated, "I like to get laid in strange places with strange men without consequence
  • "I'm tired of the games" - translated "I'm post wall and I want my beta bux"
  • "I'm career oriented" - oh, what a treat. I have to listen to you yammer about your job that I don't give a shit about

and the all-time champion:

  • "I'm a single mother and you have to accept that my child comes FIRST." - actually, no, bitch. I don't have to accept anything, especially your Fuck Trophy from your Alpha Fux days. You can accept something though...spinsterhood.

[–]Jaereth 64 points64 points [recovered] | Copy

I've been using the internet for 15 years, and been a member of various different online communities since day 1.

Never, ever, have I received more harassment from total strangers, then when I put "I don't date girls with kids" in a dating profile a few years ago.

They just couldn't seem to understand why I would immediately disqualify them for that... Society is almost to the point where raising another mans kids is the norm, no the exception. Sad really.

[–]TRP VanguardJP_Whoregan36 points37 points  (1 child) | Copy

I actually have a username on a certain site that basically says "NoSingleMothers"...not that exactly, but close. I do it for comic relief for the sassy-mouth messages I get about it. Pure amusement.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

this is gold. as an aside, i believe we sparred it out in another thread yesterday

[–]enticingasthatmaybe14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy

Even better is to do that while also actively stating that you have a kid. Hamster faints.

[–]1kick627 points28 points  (0 children) | Copy

They just couldn't seem to understand why I would immediately disqualify them for that

Of course they can't understand. They've been cheerleaded to believe that being a single mom is heroic. I mean, what guy WOULDN'T want to be with a heroic woman, right? right? ........guys?

[–][deleted] 64 points65 points  (16 children) | Copy

I was thinking of starting a list of the platitudes and vapid phrases commonly found on the modern woman's online dating profile.

"I'm not looking for sex or a one night stand" - I have had way too much sex with random dudes, so I feel guilty, but I will still have sex or a one night stand if you are attractive/alpha

[–]TRP VanguardJP_Whoregan57 points58 points  (6 children) | Copy

lol I forgot that one. "If you're looking for an easy lay just keep moving".

And then you easily move into her panties. They're all sluts for the right guy.

[–][deleted] 47 points47 points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–]Menadian0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Well - that was some of a guide :D!

[–]1BaltoSquadGuy44 points45 points  (1 child) | Copy

"I don't need a relationship to complete my life right now and I'm looking for someone in a similar situation. " - Translation: "ALL. OF. THE. DICKS. In and around my mouth, vagina, and anus"

Anytime you see the "I don't put out on the first date" or "I'm not into one night stands", you should perk up. It's like a girl saying "you are NOT sleeping with me tonight"

Bitch, why you talking about sex already?

[–]TRP VanguardJP_Whoregan11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

Holy shit that was hilarious.

[–]enticingasthatmaybe10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

I actually actively look for that statement on a decent looking gal's profile. Then I'm like aww yiss

[–]LordOfMurderMountain5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

This exactly.

[–]1kick618 points19 points  (2 children) | Copy

"I'm not looking for sex or a one night stand" - I have had way too much sex with random dudes, so I feel guilty, but I will still have sex or a one night stand if you are attractive/alpha

I hate seeing this on Tinder. In my head I'm all "bitch, this is a fucking hook up app! You are looking for a boyfriend at the damn one night stand store! WTF are you thinking!?

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (1 child) | Copy

Really, I think it's more of a shit test, albeit, an unintentional one. I just agree and amplify like I would to any shit test. "Oh you don't want sex? Good, neither do I, I'm a choir boy and a virgin."

[–]1kick627 points28 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think it's pre-emptive ASD hamsterbation. "Well I said in my hook-up app profile that my special unicorness wasn't looking for a hookup, but we totally fucked on the first date...but I said I wasn't LOOKING for a hookup, 'it just happened'"

Boom magically not a slut.

[–]TRP VanguardJP_Whoregan19 points20 points  (1 child) | Copy

  • "I'm looking for a family-oriented guy." - I popped out a few babies by a few different alpha men and now I'm looking for a provider to raise them and someone for them to call "daddy" because my looks are fading and I can't find a good paying job with my Women's Studies degree.

  • <blank profile, pics only> - I'm an attention whoring slut who hasn't hit the wall yet, and I can still get by on my looks alone. I have nothing intelligent to say because I'm a vapid, mindless, walking pussy. Just look at my tits, tee hee

[–]tsudonimh9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

"I'm looking for a family-oriented guy"

Sweet! I have a family in the Orient!

[–]TRP VanguardJP_Whoregan9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy

  • "I'm a huge animal lover." - I'm already getting accustomed to the idea of buying my first cat.

[–]jcrpta1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

  • "I'm a huge animal lover." - There's laws about that, you know.

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

"Made this as a joke" or "not taking this seriously at all" - I am taking this seriously and if you are attractive, I will still meet up with you. I have low self-esteem and/or I'm worried I will be called out by friends/orbiters if they find out I have this.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

one of the more fun things to do is find a male model on the internet, and make a fake dating profile. I did exactly as you mention with the fake profile with women who didn't want a ONS, but definetely made initiation of contact, and insinuated she wanted exactly that or a FWB.

[–]1BaltoSquadGuy30 points31 points  (3 children) | Copy

"I'm laid back and down to Earth." - I contribute nothing to society other than a rapidly loosening vagina and collapsing nipple line. Also, I would struggle to locate our current city on a map.

[–][deleted] 6 points6 points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–]1BaltoSquadGuy0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Or, in metropolitan whorespeak, "My armpit fat forms at least three folds over my dress that is size: denial."

[–]TRP VanguardJP_Whoregan3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

haha these are great, keep em coming, boys.

[–]10J18R1A21 points22 points  (0 children) | Copy

"Loves to laugh"

Myself, I like to laugh. And laugh I did at "fuck trophy ".

If you'll notice, a lot of online profiles from women read as job postings.

[–][deleted] 41 points42 points  (6 children) | Copy

Yup. I love reading Tinder profiles, just for the serious lulz. The best are the fat chicks who write shit like "Need a REAL man who will wine and dine me. Must be at least 6'1."

Where do these women get off thinking that by merely having a vagina, they are in a position to pick and choose who is worthy of them? Why would a young, good looking, in shape, man even bother with these women? Most women have nothing to offer, expect the world, and bash people like RPers for criticizing their flawed logic.

[–]JohnPeel31 points32 points  (3 children) | Copy

The psychology is a bit more complicated, I'll try to explain.

These women are so unattractive no one would fuck them anyway. They could put "will date anybody" on their profile and still get (figuratively) shafted. Or at the very least the type of person who would want to date them is also hideous.

Instead they hamster away the fact they are hideously unattractive by pretending to have high standards. In both cases they're still not finding a partner but in the latter case the hamster is saved from meltdown.

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points  (2 children) | Copy

The thing is, many very low SMV beta guys are actually so desperate, that they might try to fuck these girls. Problem is, these guys don't fit the description of what is on the fat slob's profile. Therefore, they don't even try.

I always hear women preach about men needing to lower their standards if they want a "real" woman. But what do these "real" women do? Exponentially raise their standards, of course! And that is why ugly beta dudes don't ever get laid. Because even unbelievablely ugly chicks have artificially raised their standards to the point where it doesn't match up with their real SMV.

[–]1whatsazipper13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy

They're taking women by their words, at face-value. Women say all sorts of things that can be safely discarded in the trash.

[–]borderline_sociopath1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

many very low SMV beta guys are actually so desperate, that they might try to fuck these girls. Problem is, these guys don't fit the description of what is on the fat slob's profile. Therefore, they don't even try join forums like PUAHate and plan their killing spree.

This shit will keep happening. You can't forcefully exclude a not-insignificant percentage of guys and expect them to not push back.

[–]CreepAcceptance1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Where do these women get off thinking that by merely having a vagina, they are in a position to pick and choose who is worthy of them?

Everyone gets to choose who is good enough for them, but they have ridiculous standards of "good enough" because they've had slobbering chumps orbiting them for years and catering to their whim. I don't blame them for trying, but fuck being the sucker who is their betabux.

In the case of fatties it's just pre-rejection. By setting their standards so high they can just claim that nobody is good enough instead of facing the reality that nobody wants them.

[–]RedFlagsAreGood4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Just look at any female online dating profile, and all you'll see are statements like "what I'm looking for" and "I need someone who is like this" or "you must be at least xyz height to pass go" - you'll never see anyone who has anything to offer or give.

Actually, I see something to offer or give quite often....on scammer profiles.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Exactly, real women with something to offer don't need online dating profiles to find quality men.

[–]1iluminatiNYC4 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

Simple answer to those fools: subtract, delete. :)

[–]TRP VanguardJP_Whoregan67 points68 points  (21 children) | Copy

at a rate faster than they're finding /r/theredpill or any other part of the manosphere

That's what I meant by this statement. There are plenty of ancillary reasons for the drop in the marriage rate. But I surmise that central among them is guys talking to other guys who are getting divorce raped in court, or are generally miserable in their marriage to entitled wives who are "empowered" with "you go gurrrlllll" bitchy attitudes.

At a wide-angle lens view, the central crumbling of marriage and society as a whole can be attributed to societal demands that men uphold the same end of their bargain that they've been upholding since the 1950's, but giving women passes (like the feminizing of men, skewed family law courts, /r/pussypass, etc) that allow them to diminish the value men present to our society. Men are looking around, literally saying "why the fuck am I doing this?", and checking out in more ways than one.

[–]jacobman19 points20 points  (16 children) | Copy

I wish someone would do a good study on divorce court and family law. One thing that I want answered is about custody. It turns out if you look at the cases, men that pursue custody win equally as often as women. The problem is that men pursue custody at a much much much smaller rate than women. Often they just settle out of court. This leaves three questions in my mind.

1) Do the cases that are pursued have much better evidence for the man than the women, since they are a select few. Aka, should the men that are pursuing actually be winning more than 50%?

2) Are so many men not pursuing custody because of a misguided fear that they can't win, or are men not pursuing custody because they have been informed from people with experience and real knowledge that their chances are slim?

3) Are there other laws that make it more likely that the man won't have a good case such as automatically giving the baby to the women early on or something similar?

[–]1iluminatiNYC16 points17 points  (1 child) | Copy

1) Generally speaking, men will only pursue if they have something rock solid to hold against the woman, such as health, mental illness, substance abuse and abuse of the child. In no fault cases, women generally file if they think in general they'll win custody.

2) It's a bit of both. A lot of it is sheer luck of the draw with judges, and knowing it's a crapshoot between one judge who will listen and another who won't scares a LOT of men. That said, if you luck out with a judge that has a rep of being biased against men having custody, why file?

3) There are efforts to make it so that custody defaults to split so that a woman will be forced to make their case. It's increased the number of split custody cases, but women still win much more often, as these laws slowly spread throughout the states. Also, with women gaining more high profile jobs, it ups the chances for a man. Say if a woman is a high powered lawyer and her husband is a teacher, the husband actually has good odds of winning custody in court ceteris parabis.

Here are a couple of useful links for more reading:

http://www.unc.edu/courses/2010fall/econ/586/001/Readings/Brinig.pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3347912/

[–]the99percent11 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Age of the child is also a key factor. Forget about winning sole custody if the child is < 5 years old.

Even when the mother is serving time in jail for murdering the husband, diagnosed with bi-polar, ADHD, and is such an unstable person, she murdered herself AND the kid.

True story. There's a documentary on YouTube about it. The murdered sons parents were trying to win sole custody of the child whilst the mother served time in jail. Its so sickening what the courts can and will do...

Imagine if this was a man. Fuck.. The judge will award immediately with no contest at all.

The documentary is entitled 'dear Zachary: letter from your father'. Its on youtube and is ,an emotional drainer, you've been warned. It also shows you how NOT to be such a blind, spinless beta that it kills you...

[–]TRP VanguardJP_Whoregan16 points17 points  (7 children) | Copy

I think it's a fear that if they even try to pursue the children, the wife will divorce rape him even harder than she was already planning to do.

i.e., "Don't fight me for the kids, and I'll settle for $500/month alimony. But if you drag this out by suing for custody, I'll make sure my lawyer takes you for all she can."

And the threat is valid, because there are far, far more divorce lawyers that represent women than represent men, at least in my region. And the ones that do represent men don't tend to be as aggressive, presumably because society frowns upon the 'big bad lawyer man' bullying the poor, poor woman. A man crying in court would look ridiculous, but nobody bats an eye as a divorcing wife sobs on the stand about "emotional abuse" and how the man was "distant".

My last LTR was a divorcee, and I would actually listen to the way the female lawyer would talk about her ex-husband. Vicious bitch.

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points  (6 children) | Copy

Yeah, you're close to the mark here, but you're also forgetting a huge reason why men don't go after custody - its very very expensive.

I spent about $50K on my divorce and got my ass handed to me. I could not overcome the false accusations - and my judge is female. The blatant double standards were mind boggling.

I challenged for custody and then chose to withdraw my suit, because my ex threatened to put both my kids on the stand. If I would have gone the distance, the total bill would have easily eclipsed $100K. I can't lie - that was part of the decision to withdraw, but the kids testifying is what did it.

I didn't want my children to grow up with the memory that they had to testify in a divorce case against one of their parents. That was just a line I did not want to cross. Not just that, but my ex called DCF (Department of Children and Families) 3 times with 5 charges - all unfounded - to try to have me put in jail. My attorney told me that if my ex managed to successfully manipulate the children into testifying abuse I would stand a very real chance of going to prison.

My ex is a manipulative sociopath who would do anything to win. I can't trust that there is a line she wouldn't cross - because there is no line with her. There literally is no lie heinous enough that she wouldn't tell - if she perceived a benefit in telling it. In the end it just wasn't worth it. The conflict was doing harm to my kids. I had to withdraw from their lives for their own sake. On top of all this, my kids were getting older and both are now teenagers. They have completely bought into mom's alienation and think I'm the worst person in the world. They were actively disrespecting me, my wife and my parents and there was nothing I could do to discipline them that wouldn't have resulted in another visit from DCF investigators. So I'm estranged from both my kids from wife #1. They aren't going to be able to have a relationship with me until their mother wants them to (while they are still minors).

If a woman has the will, she can make custody a very difficult thing to get.

Don't for an instant ever think "I'll just go for custody" like it's going to be no big deal - and that you actually stand a good chance of winning. If you threaten to take away the gravy train they think they are entitled to - expect them to throw an epic tantrum.

Some women see value in having a father in their children's lives, others don't. If you are about to get divorced and your (soon to be ex) wife is one of the latter, then the conflict itself will become something that hurts the kids. Some women have a heart and a conscience and others don't. When they don't - they can really fuck your life up and the kids lives in pursuit of what they believe they are entitled to - and there is little or nothing in place to prevent them.

So I would say that in the small amount of cases where the man goes for custody it's probably a combination of factors - the man perceives some issue with mom having custody, mom has some life management issues and probably most of all - the guy knows his wife isn't a raging psycho turbo cunt willing to set fire to everyone's lives to get her way.

[–][deleted] 11 points11 points | Copy

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[–]ShowMeYourCat7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy

So true. I lived by my mother until I became 12. She talked shit about him every fucking day. As soon as I was able to think freely I went to my father whom fought for me the past 12 years. Best day of my life. My mother is one of this bitches that noticed in their mid 30. that she has no money anymore. She also got all the money from my father and did not spend even a single coin for me. I sometimes did not even have food while I lifed with her because she spend everything for fucking hollydays. I'm now 23 and met her several times since. (maybe 5 times not more) and every time she started with some bullshit; how it was not her fault but my fathers. She also does not work for much money so she has not to pay a single cent on me. Fucked up person...

I hope I can win at court in 30 years so I have not to pay a single euro for her the day she might need money because she got old.

Sorry for my bad english. I hope you got what I tried to say. :)

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You don't have to pay for your mother when she gets old in any European country. Fear not. You have already won.

[–]ShowMeYourCat0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Nope sorry but that's not true.

BGB 1601: German Civil Code. http://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_bgb/englisch_bgb.html#p5520

As far as I know I only have a chance to not to pay if I can proof that she never payed anything when she had to while I lived by my father. In worst case I have to pay: -4.000 Euro (cost for rest home) + 1.900€ (that I get from health insurance)= 2.100€ every fucking month. Only if I have less than 1.600€ every month I have to pay nothing. So she can still ruin my life. (beside the fact that it is still possible to life with 1600€. But that's not the point) Calculation example from a German news

But on the other hand I can proof that she has beaten me almost every day when I lived with her. I think this also counts. Sick shit happened... In worst case I just look for another way so I have not to pay for her. I will find a way that she will never see a damn CENT from me. Trust me!

[–]TRP VanguardJP_Whoregan15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're not the only one to end up in a DCF office. Long story short, one day I put my GF's daughter in her room for acting out like a wildebeest; arms and legs flailing, screaming, yelling, "you're not my Dad", etc, etc...I carried her into her bedroom, and while flailing, she knocked her leg onto the frame of the bedroom door.

The very next day, she went to the school counselor and told them that I "put a bruise on her leg". The school calls the local sheriff's office, and the next thing I know, I'm being summoned for questioning at the DCF office 5 miles from my house. NEVER AGAIN will I date a woman with kids. NEVER. Guys...don't do it.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Stay strong man, that sounds brutal

[–]ArcadeGoon9 points10 points  (3 children) | Copy

The man has to pay his court costs. (has a job) The woman gets free legal aid. (welfare)

The legal aid should be free for both parties. I have a job, but that doesn't mean I can pay $5000-$50,000 for lawyers.

There also seems to be an unwritten law that females default as better parents than men.

[–]temparooney4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yes I read about a new female judge in family court who was treating men and women equally. She was hispanic, I think, from a culture that doesn't idolize women.

She got talked to by the senior judges and told that they way they did it was to default to the woman. She complied.

I read this in a major newspaper a few years ago.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Just an FYI to anyone reading this, it will depend on your juridiction. I do not believe my Jurisdiction (Queensland) offers free legal aid for women, as far as I'm aware legal aid is only offered in a small number of cases.

I have heard many stories of both men and women getting obliterated in the divorce proceedings, and my tutor knows a senior judge who had her savings wiped out by her ex husband in a pyhrric manner.

[–]1independentmale1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

The woman won't get state money (welfare) for legal expenses in a divorce. What happens in most cases is they'll make you pay for her attorney, too.

[–]jcrpta1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

3) Are there other laws that make it more likely that the man won't have a good case such as automatically giving the baby to the women early on or something similar?

It depends on where you are in the world, but I'm given to understand the way it usually plays out in the UK is:

  • Married couple, living together with kids. Mum works part-time or not at all, dad works full-time.
  • He moves out.
  • One of them files for divorce. At this point, Mum has a very low or no income so she qualifies for legal aid. Dad, however, is still working full-time so he qualifies for no aid at all. He has no choice but to instruct his solicitor to do things as cheaply as possible - even if that means doing a less than thorough job. After all, solicitors charge thousands, and most men are certainly not making enough money to pay their solicitor to do everything possible. Mum, because she's on legal aid, has no such concerns.
  • The best bit is how legal aid is paid for. They put a charge on the house so when it's sold you then have to pay the legal bill. Essentially, your soon-to-be-ex-wife is mortgaging the marital home to pay for the divorce. Of course, if you tried to get a mortgage on the marital home for such a purpose, you'd need to get her to sign for it, which isn't going to happen in a million years. But she doesn't need your consent to get legal aid.

Of course, you could try and sort things out amicably between you. Let's face it, if the marriage is over it makes more sense to split any equity in the house than it does to sign most of it over to a solicitor. But if she gets a whiff of an idea of "I'll just get a solicitor to look this over, a quick half-hour session, check it's okay" or a friend says "Aww, you poor thing. Here, this is the solicitor I used, he was really good". Once that happens, you are a hop and a step from a solicitor saying "I think you could get more than this, you know" and all the work you put in to sort out something amicably is undone.

Men are not just screwed over in the divorce court. The system actively goes out of its way to screw men over before they even step foot in court.

[–]lloopy-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

I finalized my divorce a year ago. I got 1/3 custody of my daughter. This was my choice. I spend 2/3 of my time focusing on me and 1/3 focusing on my daughter.

The CFI (child and family investigator) saw through all the bullshit my ex was spewing forth. I know I could have gotten 100% if I had tried. I didn't at the time, but that might change in the future. But I thought that for my daughter to develop into a good person who makes good decisions, this was the best for her.

[–]uncletom40 12 points12 points [recovered] | Copy

The feminists here in Australia thought up a way to get around the fact that if you don't choose to get married a cunt can't steal half your shit. After 9 months living together you are automatically treated the exact same as a married couple for property division purposes.

You can't even get out of it by signing a contract.

[–]TRP VanguardJP_Whoregan5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy

http://therationalmale.com/2011/10/06/shacking-up/

That's why we don't live with females.

[–]captshady46 points47 points  (6 children) | Copy

I don't know that they're waking up so much as they have just been pushed too far. Somewhat collectively, woman have banded together to shame men for being men. "Be more sensitive," they started with, "share your feelings," and "share in the house work" (which really meant "do more than half"). Doing manly shit is scorned, save sports. The term "muscle head," "gym rat," or "lunk" wasn't coined by men. It was coined by women. They were the first to make fun of the very fit man that spent time in a gym. The whole "rape culture" thing is a result of a real issue, that got pushed and shamed further. All the way to the point of people getting disciplined at their jobs for looking at a female in a way that made her feel "uncomfortable."

Shit, hunting is a dying sport. Every sport with physical contact gets new rules, toning it down with every passing year.

All male clubs are shunned, and sued while there's an increase in female only gyms, clubs, and so on.

Genderless bathrooms are increasing each year. Imagine how much you'll be shamed, once that becomes the norm! They'll be offended by you standing up to take a piss!

They just can't take it anymore, men are tired of being shamed for being men. Men didn't dig this hole, women did.

Off topic, but if you feel like a estrogen filled bitch, you need to lift heavy. Fuck lifting "to get tone", lift to get STRONG. Don't make cardio a main focus on your fitness regimen, make it ancillary. CELEBRATE being a fucking man. Go spear fishing. Kill for your food, at least once in your life. Go build something, restore a car, shave with a straight razor, REFUSE to be forced into being a female with a dick.

[–][deleted] 2 points2 points | Copy

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[–]captshady5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

I live in S. Texas. There are plenty of hunters here, but I'm constantly running into people that say their son doesn't hunt, or "I used to hunt, but my wife hated me doing it, so ... "

We can't get rid of feral pigs here, white tails are all over, albeit small.

[–]thegman842 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm also in Texas and I totally concur......I hear that shit all the time.

Several of my co-workers went camping and they started asking me about hunting. I was horrified when one of them asked his girlfriend if he could go hunting with me this fall. Fucking asked her permission!

There was a guy I went to grad school with who would take a week fishing trip to Canada with his dad, uncle, and grandfather every summer. Anyway started dating this girl and she forbid him to go because she couldn't stand the idea of "him killing fish". Well 5 years later he hasn't gone fishing with his family a single time since he started dating her.

[–][deleted] 28 points29 points  (5 children) | Copy

Women are the socially hooked in sex, far more than men. When men start acting a certain way, women all know and they know fast. I am always amazed how certain buzz words (like 'redpill') spread like wildfire among feminine circles. A good example is the 'where have all the good men gone' idea, you can talk about that with every woman there is, they all know that there are fewer 'good' men out there. They lack specifics on the idea of course, but they all have something to say about how bad it is. Like with Redpill, they might not know what it is exactly, but they'll know to oppose it.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (4 children) | Copy

So women bitch and moan that "there are less good men", but then they attempt to castrate men from becoming alphas, by encouraging beta behavior and shaming places like TRP. Why would they do that? Don't they know any better? Are they afraid of losing their provider and previledges?

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

My understanding is that it's instinctual. Weak men are poor protectors, they might fold in a crisis or run away and leave the (all important) children. A guy with an immovable frame who will not be cowed is irresistible. So it's in their best interest to constantly try to tear every man down all the time, only the best survive. So to me the lesson on an individual level is don't give a shit, be emotionally unassailable. That's much easier to say than it is to do. Some guys can ignore shrill annoyances, and handle their emotions more easily than others but we can all improve ourselves if we work at it, and more importantly know that working at it is something worth doing. In my experience it definitely is.

[–]Villaintine3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Because most of them have extremely poor introspection. They go along with the herd mentality and say what they think they should be looking for based on the standards of other women and talking heads while the very attitudes and behaviors they claim to despise is what really makes the vag tingle.

[–]jcrpta4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

They want everything.

Able to take control, good body, can make them laugh, well-paying job, can find the time to indulge her and their family.

Basically, they want the bloke in the Old Spice adverts but on top of that they want him to be a qualified lawyer with his own thriving practise(!) working 35 hours a week(!!) and taking four weeks holiday a year(!!!). Oh, and he needs to be good with kids. Firm but fair. Able to buy the ice creams when a treat is in order and instil discipline when necessary.

The lie that they've been told is that there are plenty of men just like this. Hence "where have all the good guys gone?" = "so where the hell are they all then?".

Bitching and shaming is a way to try and manipulate the bits of the man they didn't get with a view to getting the man described above. Problem is, no man alive could have that personality, body, job and free time - the four are totally incompatible. She's totally unaware of this, of course - probably hasn't even put the thought into how many hours you'd need in a day to cultivate it all - so what actually happens when he capitulates to any of her demands is something else suffers.

Which is a bit of a shame because it was "something else" that attracted her to him in the first place.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

My sister in-law was on this ''5-year plan''. She wanted to date a guy for 3 years, get married in 4 years, and have a child in 5. Apparently, she isn't the only female to feel this way. That, to me, makes it more pathetic.

Her ''plan'' worked. She married this guy who is good looking and very smart but I guess he's insecure. Her husband is the biggest pussy I think I've ever met. He can't say no, to a woman who still to this day lies to him and may still be cheating. I am pretty sure he should know about it...Her child may or may not be her husband's. Still, he acts, and desperately tries to be, the alpha male that TRP has become. He is so blindsided by her manipulations that are only validated by her female parts, it seems.

[–]Pushnikov2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Direct link to our subreddit Was posted on my Facebook feed the other day by some chick claiming misogyny is rampant after that kid went on his women hating murder spree.

So, I would say that the site is getting spread outside of reddit.

[–]TRP VanguardJP_Whoregan3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Which I find kind of ironic. If that kid could have, he'd have worshipped the ground a woman walked on, which is the complete antithesis of what is preached here. Misogyny!!!!!

[–]Pushnikov1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Agreed. I didn't want to get into it with her, and couldn't find a way to pose a question that was thoughtful enough to make a difference.

[–]1independentmale2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

The "alarming" (as the MSM puts it) drop in the American marriage rate is a sign that men are "waking up" at a rate faster than they're finding /r/theredpill or any other part of the manosphere.

Absolutely. Every single male friend I have talked to in the past year has praised me for refusing to marry and said they would do the same. These are regular, married guys who know nothing of the RP/men's rights movement (as far as I'm aware).

The contractor doing renovations on my home, on his second marriage and has been with her 27 years, says he wishes he had never remarried. "She takes good care of me, but god damnit, 1IM... I'd really rather be single." The guy who does my hair says his wife is "good" but wishes he wasn't married and says he will never do it again. "Most days I just can't handle her bullshit anymore..." Multiple friends and coworkers have expressed disdain for their marriages.

I saw a male psychologist for awhile to discuss co-parenting and properly raising my children post-divorce. I brought up some of my RP beliefs just to get his input and he was immediately on board. Says he loves his wife but, "If anything were to happen, I would choose a life much like the one you're leading."

I'm confident in my decision here. I'm happier single than I ever was married and I'm NOT. GOING. BACK.

[–]comefromspace5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's not so much of a revolution as much as it is a rational response.

[–]boydeer5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

It was only a matter of time before men started revolting

"... and then one day, i woke up and found myself revolting."

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy

Are more men leaving their wives then vice versa?

[–]TRP VanguardJP_Whoregan7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy

55% of all marriages today end in divorce. And depending on the poll/study, women initiate (i.e., first to file/sue for divorce) 70-80% of all divorces in America today. You'd be a masochistic dumbass to roll the dice on your amassed wealth/assets on those odds.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

Oh I understand but are rising divorce rates really because we are "waking up" if women are still initiating divorces?

Edit: I'm dumb. Didn't see you talking about drop in marriage rates.

[–]TRP VanguardJP_Whoregan4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

That's what I was getting at. It's not necessarily that most men know about the 70% stat, but I surmise that many of them are seeing a rise in family, friends, and coworkers getting divorce raped by their wives, and helped by feminist judges. And the ones that haven't yet married are saying fuck that noise.

[–][deleted] 90 points91 points  (7 children) | Copy

reading some bullshit online that told him how his relationship ought to be, then trying to implement it.

Ah, yes, this is the epitome of double standards for women these days.

[–]eccentricrealist66 points67 points  (2 children) | Copy

"BUT COSMO SAYS TO..."

[–]1Mikesapien14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy

Fist him with a jelly-covered avocado?

[–]Sturmgeist78111 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

http://youtu.be/ymNdfdQvdVc?t=1m41s

It's amazing how many women read that trash.

[–]MrEpicwill18 points19 points  (2 children) | Copy

To be fair, that's kinda how TRP works too. Though, our advice isn't bullshit 90% of the time.

[–]homosexualsaipian4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

isn't that why it's called double standard. when they do it, it's completely good. when redpill does it, misogyny omfg.

[–]PlantNutrient0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

They feel exactly the same way.

The only problem is the feminine side of things looks at things as the victim

[–]HDThoreauaway0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's only hypocritical for women who do both. Plenty pick one, or neither.

[–][deleted] 97 points98 points  (19 children) | Copy

Awesome post. I seriously wish I could direct this post to everyone who has decided that I've become an asshole since I swallowed the pill, both men and women alike.

I've lost multiple male "friends" (I put that in quotations because they obviously aren't real friends) over the past 6+ months because I decided to pull my head out of my ass and become a better man. I've no longer become an emotional punching bag for girls I once orbited. Of course, I'm considering an asshole for these "heinous crimes." But I'm thriving. Why? Because for once in my life I've taken control of my situation. And I owe that to TRP

[–]Jaereth 83 points83 points [recovered] | Copy

The men are just the worst. I cringe inside so hard whenever I hear them just following the script society has forced down their throat.

I was at a game store one night talking to some of the guys there. I told my friend when I got home from work, my girlfriend had dinner made and my laundry done, and told me to go have a good time playing cards and to "come to bed" when I got home.

Another one of the guys there chimed in and said "Holy shit dude, you better marry her!" He was just so amazed that I had a girl that would do some work around the house, not be controlling of my time and gladly let me go pursue my hobbies, and still be excited to have sex with me when I come home.

I've found it's useless to try to share red pill truths with guys until they go look for it themselves, so i've given up on that. I just look at them and shrugged and said "Isn't that how relationships are supposed to be?"

[–][deleted] 50 points50 points | Copy

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[–]Jaereth 33 points33 points [recovered] | Copy

Exactly. That's the script that's forced on us in all manner of media. You're lucky if a girl dates you. You're getting lucky if she has sex with you. Then you get married and that's the dream.

Just reading some stuff and analyzing it from the point of "why am I putting women on a pedestal" alone was enough to turn my stomach and decide to do things my own way.

[–][deleted] 29 points30 points  (1 child) | Copy

I have a friend who I hardly ever associate with anymore because he "got lucky" and is dating a pretty attractive girl, who has him absolutely whipped. I just look at his life now and the way he's been conned, and I must admit, I feel good about it, as shitty as that may sound. I can see straight through the bullshit and I know exactly how its going to end. You think this guy will ever listen to a bit of advice from me? Hell no. I hear his GF talk about how so-and-so is "hot" and when so-and-so does something it's "hot." And my buddy never gets these compliments. Yet he still buys her shit, surrenders his independence in favor of her demands, and kisses her ass. Why? Because he is "lucky" to have her

[–]jjshinobi5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

// somewhat of a platitude based response / train of thought

What would you tell him to prove that he is not lucky to have her? You would ask him what justify's him to put her on a pedestal, or what formula he uses to derive her worth. Something like that right? People like your ex-friend buy into the inflated value that their SO's parents install in them. "My daughter deserves a man who can buy her a BMW. (I took her out to various vacation spots, continuously bought her the latest dress, shoes, dines, and instilled a sense of entitlement)."

His answer would be along the lines that he believes in the experiences of people and how that shapes their personality, how it's love / ignorance / bliss /escapism. These things are justifiable and can be goal worthy. Some people just want a dependent person as a spouse; another mother-like micro-manager. The definition of a princess, or a queen. This is also justifiable, as "men should only bow down to their queen". Make sacrifices on a "I give more sometimes and you give more sometimes" kind of scale.

Making him, or anyone, figure out why he's not treating his spouse like an equal should not be your concern. He clearly does not want to be in control of his life, and neither does anyone else who accepts the whims and irrational demands of females. If a person believes the psychological abuse is justifiable, than he must be getting something out of the relationship. The core problem with people accepting RP philosophy, is that they can't accept that some men have a higher sex drive that request not to be micro-managed because of a poorly designed contract, and that men want to improve themselves without being lagged by illogical commitments. They know most people here want to legalize prostitution and restructure the marriage system. The problem is, just like the Occupy movement and such, they see people complain and provide no clear direct, sidebar linked solutions or seriously think that's how relationships are "supposed" to be.

What I like about TRP is that every time I come here, I learn something new in the topic of self-worth and self-entitlement. Which activates my own hypergamous intentions.

[–]Senior Contributorexit_sandman8 points9 points  (2 children) | Copy

I just look at them and shrugged and said "Isn't that how relationships are supposed to be?"

That's the problem. Now I don't condone turning GFs into stepford smilers or fulltime houswives, but we have been so thoroughly indoctrinated that it's totally backward having the female partner doing domestic chores and progressive if the male part does them, that it certainly might appear as odd - or at least odd to mention it in conversation.

[–]vaker8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

we have been so thoroughly indoctrinated that ... progressive if the male part does them

But that's what it is - progressive idiocy. Traditional gender roles (that actually work) are not 'progressive'.

Progressives 'know better' than thousands of years of social evolution that converged on those traditions...

[–]1whatsazipper2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

The best is when the progressive social circles adopt "polyamory", and you get to fuck their women without any obligations, because some other chump is handling payments.

Fuck, you can even end up using his money and resources through her!

I say we promote and encourage this nonsense and reap the rewards.

[–]slcjosh22 points23 points  (0 children) | Copy

See the key words right there? "I've taken control". Everything seems to fall into place once you take control in every aspect of your life.

[–]1whatsazipper25 points26 points  (2 children) | Copy

"Asshole" and "douchebag" seem to be applied to me when I don't comply with someone else's expectations, and instead defer to my own. What a horrible crime, eh?

[–]HDThoreauaway1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

... though, to be fair, assholes and douchebags do that, too. Do you know you're not being one?

[–]1whatsazipper6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

"Am I getting what I want?" "Am I seeing results?" "Is this effective?"

Those are what I'm concerned about. Women levy the labels when they can't manipulate a man. Men when they feel threatened by the competition or to defend their blue pill worldview.

A genuine asshole, douchebag, misanthrope -- people wouldn't readily associate with. If it turns out they, too, do as well, and women readily fuck them, then fine, I can take being a genuine such-and-such since it offers nothing tangibly negative.

Realistically, though, I see the terms used as aforementioned, typically as part of a shame-package.

[–]1iluminatiNYC7 points8 points  (1 child) | Copy

Be glad you got such people out of your life. Unfortunately, controlling types get upset whenever you put up boundaries. :)

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Exactly. It just sucks because these were long time friends who I expected more loyalty from. Wasn't until TRP came along that I realized how true the "crab in a bucket" metaphor is. They see me try to better myself, and instead of trying to do the same, they just find it easier to try and drag me back down.

I'm not perfect and I still have a long way to go, but you're right. There is no need for negativity in your life, especially when it comes from people who are supposed to have your back. My situation has taught me that the "bro code" everyone seems to believe exists is actually just bullshit male hamstering

[–]airyeezy910 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy

Care to elaborate on the reasons these make "friends" have bailed? I can't imagine my mates turning their back on me just cause I wasn't taking any shit and being a bit Red Pill.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

They were the ones holding me back. It makes them jealous, angry, and probably slightly embarrassed to see me actually start changing myself. Keep in mind, this really has nothing to do with the pickup side of TRP. Instead of sitting on the couch playing video games 5 hours a day, I now go lift, make plans with different friends who actually pick up girls, and generally do a lot of really fun stuff. My old friends have this twisted notion that its "uncool" to do these things, or its "uncool" to dress nice before going out to the bar. Instead of saying "good for you, glad you're happy," they are the complete opposite, trying to shoot me down any chance they get (think about the crabs in a bucket metaphor).

All of this has led me to the conclusion that stuff like "bro code" is really just bullshit. People are people and the majority of them will try to manipulate you and hold you back for their own benefit. Thats why its important to find people who are extremely supportive, likeminded, and hopefully successful, from the get go. They won't fear your success, because they've already achieved it. That's why communities like TRP are important, because it gives likeminded people a place to talk, discuss, and support without too much judgement

[–]airyeezy910 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Awesome, thanks for the reply.

Elevating my company is something I need to focus on. I feel like 90% of my friends are holding me back. Surrounding myself with positive, successful people is my top priority at the moment, only problem is where do you find these people.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Definitely a tough problem, but not impossible to solve. My best advice is to be as resourceful and creative as possible. I've gone through so many weird acquaintances to finally get in with my current group. Keep in mind, you'll likely start out at the bottom of the totem poll If you've selected a good group. That's a good sign. Success breeds success

[–]RedEcstasy146 points147 points  (27 children) | Copy

The thing is many men enjoy being sweet, sensitive and many other beta traits, it isn't just the way they were raised. They aren't unhappy because of that, they're unhappy because they are not being rewarded for it. They are unhappy because despite doing and being everything they believe women would want, they're being rejected or cuckolded. They too try to self improve. But after a lifetime of people and media telling them beta traits are what women want, they improve in the wrong direction. Even those who are living the "happy life" (and only because they don't know about the alpha fux his gf is probably getting from the side) do not take long in noticing how their friends and acquaintances are getting divorce-raped. Even the most deluded fool can see that they too thought it could never happen to them.

If they talk about it, they get called shitlords and quite possibly ostracized from their social groups. So they go to only place left where a man can have an opinion without being supressed by political correctness.

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger[S] 148 points149 points  (18 children) | Copy

The thing is many men enjoy being sweet, sensitive and many other beta traits, it isn't just the way they were raised. They aren't unhappy because of that, they're unhappy because they are not being rewarded for it.

I think we're all a little sad that the world doesn't work the logical and sensible way it ought to. It still surprises me. Not a day goes by when I don't "go all Red Pill" on my wife, half-expecting divorce papers the next morning, and end up getting my brains fucked out. It's totally stupid that this shit works. Totally stupid. Unbelievable. I can't believe the world works this way instead of the way that makes sense.

And if you dare to point it out -- if you dare to say, "I went out of my way doing X, Y, and Z for a girl I liked, and she didn't even thank me," you'll be lambasted.

"OMG! If you only did that hoping to be recognized and thanked for it, you aren't nice at all! You're a shitlord! How dare you expect sex and romance from a woman who doesn't owe you anything! She has the right to reject you! You think you can buy sex with niceness! You're a misogynist!!"

Yes, that's right. The nice guys trying to be perfect boyfriend material are the misogynists.

[–]TRP VanguardJP_Whoregan79 points80 points  (2 children) | Copy

Yes, that's right. The nice guys trying to be perfect boyfriend material are the misogynists.

That's what they'll tell you over at /r/feminism or 2X. It's really their way of hamstering away guilt over using their orbiters for emotional and material gain. If their "nice guys" are really assholes in sheep's clothing, they can alleviate feeling like a bitch for letting "Mr. Nice Guy" spend $60 on a sushi dinner for her.

[–][deleted] 62 points63 points  (0 children) | Copy

Oh my god yes... the female capacity to generate disgust for the guy paying for their meals/cars/shoes/travel has no bounds. Every time I think I've reached the limit of how low someone can go, another female 'friend' confides in me her disgust for some guy we know. It doesn't matter how many years he's put in, how many sweet nothings he's whispered, how hard he's worked to keep a job, how many diapers he's changed or vomit he's soaked up... she doesn't give one single shit... not one. Either give her the tingles or she'll find them somewhere else, period.

[–]homosexualsaipian1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Watching my friend do this for some fucking trash whore made me confused when I was 16. Now I know.

[–][deleted] 21 points21 points | Copy

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[–]trying2testhumanity11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's literally like fighting on a day-to-day basis to keep your girl. It makes me think to myself, how the fuck can you even call us anything but animals? We're always out on the hunt, for dollar or bitch.

I would imagine if a woman offered me everything, to always be loyal and true, to always cook me dinner the way I like, I guess I would be disgusted by it (even if she held true to all that she said)? What do you think? Have you had a woman drown you with all of her attention and time? I don't think I'll ever find a woman who'll do for me what I did for mine back in the day.

I think you're brainwashed, like me, budd. My favorite feelings are when I give to someone, when I hold her tight and there's no one else on the Earth, when I can actually let my guard down and tell her all the shit I think about.

It's always a battle... : ( ... maybe our generation was just somehow SO lazy, that we let it get this way? I feel like blaming my parents, but they're so fucked up did I ever even have a chance?

It makes me sick in the way that we all know. The deep pit in my stomach will never go away.

[–]sctechie10 points11 points  (1 child) | Copy

Awww man, I feel like you wrote that at me dude. My last relationship ending fucked with my head and I said all that lame shit.

I did this and this and this and I was there for you and I helped with this and remember that time you felt bad and I was there for you and I always supported you...

Barf man. Never again.

[–]Endorsed ContributorWe_Are_Legion0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You know what makes it more logical? Is women eat that shit up at movie theaters, music they listen to, books they read.

They want it from attractive men though. Not you. Pay attention to the movies, music and books. How many of those men is a smiling bald short guy or similarly disadvantaged?

If it makes you feel better, men are like this too. The large woman with a lazy eye who runs the orphanage cafeteria may just have a heart of gold too, but men would never notice her.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

100% correct. Just today as my wife was sitting across from me in the yard I just told her to show me that hot pussy of hers. She pretended to be embarrassed and shy. But once she flashed it, she couldn't stop. I just ended up putting her on my lap, playing with her, then telling her to go into the bedroom. TRP is an eye opener-as are the links in the sidebar (and other parts of the manosphere). My father and grandfather both put the pussy on a pedestal-and never had any solid advice for myself or my brother regarding women.

[–]ImRelaxedJax0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

What do you mean exactly when you say "go all Red Pill" on your wife? Don't take any bullshit, make sure she knows her role in the family, making sure she holds up her end of the bargain as far as cooking, cleaning, and chores go? Give me some examples.

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Being married with a kid, I tread a little lighter than the easy-cheesy "asshole" approach a lot of the younger guys take. For me, it's mostly rebuking shit tests and remaining immensely amused in the face of disrespectful behavior.


"Why are you acting like X?"

"I'm tired! You wake me up at 5 every morning so you can go work out like a selfish asshole! I work all day, too!"

"Too? I sit on my ass all day and take naps in my office. Waking up early to hit the gym wears me out."


"You left water on the counter from when you washed the dishes!"

"I also left the towel right next to the water."


"How many beers have you had tonight?"

"Don't know. We can afford it. This is why you have a job, too."


"Why the hell can't you handle [daughter] better? She's always so bad around you!"

"I just can't seem to assert myself around powerful women. You should learn from her."


"I don't feel like having sex tonight."

"You sound like my girlfriend."


"We dipped into our savings last month."

"Yeah, you should get a second job."

"I'm really worried about money."

"If you have time to sit around counting our money, you have time to work a second job."


Obvious, little conversational snippits aren't all that useful themselves, but they illustrate the larger concept of redirecting things every time the wife tries to have a confrontation. See the subtext:

"I don't like that you selfishly wake up early to work out!" "I'm dismissing your complaint by agreeing and amplifying: I'm lackadaisical at work, too!"

"You're a slob." "I'm dismissing your complaint by pointing out that you need to clean more."

"You drink too much." "I'm dismissing your complaint by changing the subject and indirectly pointing out that you worry too much about money."

"You suck with our kid." "I"m dismissing your complaint by agreeing and amplifying by indicating the power she has over me and pointing out that you lack such power."

"You're not getting any tonight." "I'm dismissing your comment by casually and jokingly (you hope) noting that I have options."

"You don't earn enough money." "I'm dismissing your complaint by indirectly pointing out which one of us is the breadwinner and which one is the small chunk of extra spending money."

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy

Not a day goes by when I don't "go all Red Pill" on my wife, half-expecting divorce papers the next morning, and end up getting my brains fucked out. It's totally stupid that this shit works.

I don't buy this. Granted, I'm not a TRPer, but even within the context of TRP, I'd suspect a longing for the halycon conceptions of romance one harbored during youth is pretty blue pill.

Women want a leader -- someone strong, confident, take-charge, a rock to lean on, someone who doesn't pedestalize a woman but instead places her in a set role within the context of the family. You don't have to treat a woman like shit to get amazing sex and maintain a healthy relationship; you just need to throw off the shackles of political correctness and embrace traditional gender roles. This makes plenty of sense. Feminism, despite its insistence to the contrary, hasn't managed to overcome tens of thousands of years of biologically hard-wired attraction.

So if a guy tells me he wishes the world ought to work in a "logical and sensible way," I scratch my head. No, you can't excessively fawn over your woman. No, you can't be sentimental and emotionally vulnerable. No, you can't let your social value deteriorate and not expect your woman to look elsewhere. And as a man, you shouldn't want it any other way.

[–]Endorsed ContributorWe_Are_Legion5 points6 points  (2 children) | Copy

TRPer

TRPer? That's a funny name.

you shouldn't want it any other way.

Well said. But the path of least resistance seems to be the sensible, docile beta, which is what men have been taught all their lives. Give it time, they'll learn. Besides, venting has become part of this place's purpose. And its better vented here than towards a woman.

You don't have to treat a woman like shit to get amazing sex and maintain a healthy relationship

Nah, I'll disagree. You need more experience. Outrageous game can work really well. The key is really excitement. There's no set map for that, but sometimes it can go into asshole territory if you're sensitive.

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy

Nah, I'll disagree. You need more experience.

Stop projecting. This is one of the most annoying habits I see on this subreddit. People who brag about how experienced they are with women to strangers on the internet, as a rule of thumb, generally embellish.

[–]Endorsed ContributorWe_Are_Legion2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Okay, but I'll still stick to what I said anyway; I disagree. In fact, depending on setting, it could even be necessary if you want to set yourself apart from the herd following her. Hell, I think its necessary periodically. Its just something women don't respond negatively to given there's attraction. And it works great at keeping her guessing. Like a neg, you know?

I wasn't trying to embellish, I was simply keeping more with the standard RP piece of advice after "lift", which is "approach more". You shouldn't really care if its rejection. It all counts as practice.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

You are a feminist, and yet you enforce gender roles on men. Why should men follow strict gender roles for a woman such as yourself when you hold absolutely no responsibility on your part? If I went on /r/feminism, or /r/TwoXChromosomes/ and said the same shit you did except about females what do you think would happen?

I know why females like you desire an alpha male, but it still makes you, and every other feminist a hypocritical hamster bitch.

Seriously, get the fuck out of this sub, we don't need your poison.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

You are a feminist

Sort of. I'm a difference feminist, which is a far cry from third wave feminism.

a woman such as yourself

  1. I'm a guy.

  2. I think both genders should uphold traditional gender roles.

[–]Senior Contributorexit_sandman28 points29 points  (0 children) | Copy

The thing is many men enjoy being sweet, sensitive and many other beta traits, it isn't just the way they were raised.

That's pretty much it. I recall the mantra repeated over and over again.

"Women were unhappy in the past, they deserve happiness. Women are communicative, men much less so. Talk to her, listen to her complaining, bring her gifts, show her how much you love her yadda yadda yadda."

Of course people think that's the way to do it, because that's the New Man (TM) who is supposed to make women happy. Unfortunately it doesn't really work.

[–]HDThoreauaway28 points29 points  (3 children) | Copy

Thing is, you can be sweet, sensitive, and emotionally present, AND ALSO confident, assertive, and in possession of tremendous self-control and agency. I really wish TRP would focus on that fact more often, instead of saying you can either be emotionally available or be "alpha."

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

[deleted]

What is this?

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

This doesn't mean you can't be sweet, sensitive or emotional: You just can't be MORE sweet, sensitive, or emotional than her.

[–][deleted] 4 points4 points | Copy

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[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points  (0 children) | Copy

My name is reek it rhymes with freak

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Ding Ding Ding!!! We have a winner!! Exactly my feelings and thoughts about this, put in much better words than I could.

I still am a "nice guy" with my male friends, because they respect that sort of thing. I've learned the hard way what woman respond too. Thankfully, I am a quick learner.

Besides weird how woman blame the red pill, I've had thoughts similar to red pill concepts way before this sub even existed. Such as never being a cuckold for a single mom. Nothing would revolt me more, even in my hardcore blue pill days.

[–]TheOpposingView 62 points62 points [recovered] | Copy

I really love this post.

Its borderline sidebar worthy for capturing so many RP concepts within the context of a very real, very relatable example.

Honestly, this is an excellently crafted post.

Edit: Consider sidebarring this post.

[–]TooMuchToDoo24 points25 points  (0 children) | Copy

Sidebar worthy? Hell, I'd like to see it as our "welcome banner". This should be the very first post that new men of this sub need to see.

[–]ButterMyBiscuit16 points17 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'd also like to see this on the sidebar.

[–]bitchdantkillmyvibe9 points10 points  (0 children) | Copy

Absolutely sidebar material. Very grounded and level-headed. Rational and logical. Also notice it is one of the few posts TBP hasn't satirized - cos there is nothing to poke fun at here. You'd be stupid to even try, and they know it.

[–]Zeroe7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

This has got to be one of the most convincing arguments for TRP I've read since subscribing. Please keep this around for new subscribers to read for a long, long time!

[–]Senior Contributorexit_sandman8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

I second that.

[–]TheIslander8291 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Sidebar this post for sure.

I agree.

[–]Sturmgeist78178 points79 points  (17 children) | Copy

A few months after discovering TRP I ended my LTR. Archwinger is 100% correct. I wasn't happy.

I wasn't happy with boring vanilla sex. I wasn't happy getting 50% out of the relationship when I was putting 100% in. I wasn't happy with snarky nagging and bullshit drama. I wasn't happy not being a priority in the life of my woman. I wasn't happy feeling like shit.

Three months ago, I broke up with my LTR. In 3 months I've dropped nearly 50lbs. I'm finishing up Week 8 of Couch to 5K. I've had sex with 8 women in the last three months. I have a regular FWB who enjoys sex with me so much she invites me over nearly every day.

I wasn't happy in my LTR, but I wasn't happy with myself mostly. I let myself gain a shit load of weight. I put up with being in a long distance boring LTR. I was responsible and am responsible for my own happiness.

Am I 100% happy? Fuck no, but I'm getting there. The Red Pill has helped me realize that I'm number one in my life. I used to be priority #1 in my life long before TRP, but I let myself get settled into being fat, out of shape, boring and unhappy.

TRP fixes men, it doesn't ruin relationships.

[–]CreepAcceptance5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Your friends have surely noticed your improvements and maybe some of them will be positively influenced. TRP is a fucking force multiplier.

[–]dan78882 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

watch out for that everyday girl! she'll get you hooked.

[–]Sturmgeist7812 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm relocating to Las Vegas in a few months and have stated that to each woman I talk to. My interests trump all else.

[–]The_KoNP1 point2 points  (9 children) | Copy

how fat are you that you dropped 50 pounds in 3 months? You must be like 400 pounds

[–]Sturmgeist78116 points17 points  (7 children) | Copy

285 down to 240 this morning. Nearly 50lbs.

You can make jokes, but keto, c25k, lifting and an ECA stack are a great combination.

[–][deleted]  (3 children) | Copy

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[–]Sturmgeist7814 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy

I have plenty of experience and ramp it slowly. 3 weeks on, 2 weeks off. Keep my receptors fresh.

Currently on Week 2 OFF using Caffeine/Yohimbe in the mean time. Never mixing Yohimbe and Ephedrine at the same time.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy

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[–]Sturmgeist7814 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

The ephedrine and caffeine seem to effect the mood a bit more. When you come off (I was on 600C/75E) it does bring a bit of depression or loss of that feeling of well-being.

I'm going to stick with 3 on, 2 off until September and then take a month off to prevent burn out.

[–]abutterfly2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

Would love to fucking FIND some E for my ECA.

[–]Sturmgeist7812 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

Bronkaid at Walmart or CVS. Behind the pharmacy counter. You need to ask for it and show your ID

[–]abutterfly0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Duly noted. Thanks.

[–]enticingasthatmaybe-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

Committing to running will melt a good fraction away with the first few months.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Where do you live, dude?

[–]Sturmgeist7810 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Boston.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Ah. Must be nice.

[–]1Zanford27 points28 points  (2 children) | Copy

Funny part is, 'working out, demanding sex, acting flippant' is exactly what turns women on.

But when a recovering beta does it, a woman's alarm bells go off, b/c she's already mentally classified him as beta bux. It's like the RSDTyler videos about double standards and how women try to keep the betas in line, give backwards advice, shame their sexuality (the things they are addicted to in more attractive, confident men), and call them 'controlling' for asserting their rights to their own private property and time (kicking her out of a place you pay for if you're not happy).

[–]Fokillew1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Great analysis.

[–]16 TRP VanguardTRPsubmitter43 points44 points  (3 children) | Copy

While many men are waking up, the great con in all of this is that so society has made it that so many weak men actually find "happiness" in serving (and being validated) by women.

For these men, they actually have hamstered so hard that "escorting" some drunk girl home so another guy can booty call her 15 min later for a fuck has become more "manly".

To be clear, redefining manhood as "refraining", "holding back" or telling yourself "you didn't really want that girl anyway" is the first step to bluepillhood. cue Yoda warning here

[–]1Mikesapien22 points23 points  (0 children) | Copy

A happy slave is a slave indeed.

[–]HDThoreauaway2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy

To be clear, redefining manhood as "refraining", "holding back" or telling yourself "you didn't really want that girl anyway" is the first step to bluepillhood.

Who's redefining manhood that way?

[–]16 TRP VanguardTRPsubmitter4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I've even seen guys here try that when the topic of plate-spinning comes up in an effort to justify their "unicorn gf".

Every few days there's some lame post on "Stop chasing girls! Only focus on yourself and stop talking to other humans!"

[–]Dreamtrain7 points8 points  (2 children) | Copy

Goes hand in hand with another recent excellent thread. There's never gonna be true perfect disney harmony in relationships because hypergamy exists, and that exists due to natural selection. And we have natural selection so our species can evolve. This is a generalization, I don't doubt there's harmonious relationships out there, but as a whole and as a society the balance in relationships tips in favor towards females in our decade, and men will try to tip it for them, and once it tips in favor for men over balance women will tip it for them and so on.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy

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[–]homosexualsaipian1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

baby rabies.

[–]tigolbittiez7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

You're absolutely right. I'll tell you what's insane, is how many people just deny deny deny everything positive about TRP. They insist everyone here is just pathetic and women-haters. I honestly don't get it.

I can understand most women are upset at this change in social dynamic and of course the white knights take arms to defend anything the women want. But if you see a post defending TRP, outside TRP, it gets downvoted to hell.

It's incredible what the ratio of blue pilled-folk are to red pill-folk. Typical hivemind behavior.

[–]1kick618 points19 points  (2 children) | Copy

They don’t want to be sweet and sensitive and do things for women all day long and be the “perfect boyfriend,” while having subpar sex once every six weeks, paying out the ass for expensive dates and gifts, sacrificing personal time, and getting bitched at and threatened with a break-up if any of this perfect behavior ever dips slightly. They don’t want to give backrubs and footrubs, stay at home one weekend a month while their women have a night out with the girls, get disrespected and talked about behind their backs, get cheated on (but just harmless, meaningless mistakes that don’t really count!), and get berated when they push back against any of this. They don’t want to let women move in, rent-free, and get pressured to buy a ring for a four-digit number of dollars and tie their finances to someone who makes less than half as much money, just because they’ve been “dating awhile” and “it’s time” and they’re “supposed to.”

Honestly, I think most men DO want this. They just want it to be recognized as making a better bitch, and be rewarded for it with respect and sex. However, somewhere along the line, all these things have become construed as "just what you're supposed to do" as some kind of hilarious bare minimum to get the tiniest morsels of female attention. From a female's prospective (my man does everything and all I have to do is show up...and sometimes not even show up) this truly IS a perfect relationship. 100% take, 0% give.

So when a dude suddenly realizes "You know what, I do a fuckload for my bitch and she takes it all for granted," and then tries to get some kind of payback, he's suddenly an asshole.

Its digusting.

[–][deleted] 59 points59 points | Copy

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[–][deleted]  (4 children) | Copy

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[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger[S] 6 points7 points  (2 children) | Copy

Who are the others? I don't usually have a lot of time to screw around on Reddit during the day, and I could use a short list.

[–]smalltrout5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

“My boyfriend suddenly started doing Red Pill stuff and now I want out,”

Check their actions not their talks.

If she were serious about quitting her bf, she would be gone by now. She is just in awe about how her bf is gaining value in other girl's eyes so it poses a dilemna to her: dumping him and risking starting a new relation with a new bluepill (and give his rp man to an other woman) or embrassing his man's new rp personality. She will chose the latter.

[–]Kloohorn6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

If the relationship was fine before the boyfriend went all Red Pill on his woman, why is he trying to change things?

Perfect

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

Great post.

Even the notion that a woman has the right to dictate how a man acts simply because doing otherwise is "upsetting" to the woman is absurd. Someone needs to tell those assholes that the world does not revolve around them and people can act however they wish.

The entitlement of these broads is insane. They literally go around enforcing their wishes and standards of others without realizing that their feelings are meaningless. Rustles my fucking jimmies!

[–]Dr_Acu1a13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is absolutely fucking awesome!

Them saying that the relationship is ruined is just feeling that shift in power. They no longer have "their" man wrapped around their fingers. Of course they are going to say that everything is ruined since they are completely oblivious to the satisfaction of others, or at least they are oblivious to other's satisfaction when they get everything they want.

Women are only worth what they can offer, and as soon as they stop offering they effectively become worthless. Guys spending time on themselves gets rid of the illusion. Self-improvement makes them aware that you are in demand, therefore no time can be spent on a worthless waste of space.

[–]Algermas22 points23 points  (1 child) | Copy

Bravo OP, outstanding observation.

[–]Endorsed ContributorBluepillProfessor18 points19 points  (8 children) | Copy

In contrast to this dynamic of hating TRP and thinking it leads to domineering behavior and non-compliant men (hopefully) are the HORDES of married women DEMANDING, IMPLORING, BEGGING...their men to "man up."

Methinks more women are noticing how they lose attraction when their man is a supplicating, beta-pussy than are claiming TRP leads to unpleasant and domineering behavior. One day these two groups of hamsters will meet in an epic battle.

The winner gets to save- or destroy- civilization.

[–]Endorsed Contributorbicepsblastingstud32 points33 points  (5 children) | Copy

One day these two groups of hamsters will meet in an epic battle.

There aren't two groups -- it's the same people.

It's the doublethink again. These women will happily say "man up" and then turn and complain about how they are being oppressed.

[–]eugene_goldfarb14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yep, most of them don't believe the feminist rhetoric. They can't speak out against it though, because to be non-feminist (not even anti-feminist) is to be a bad person. So the reason they're only feminist when it suits them, and not feminist all of the time, is because they don't really believe in feminism. You see the same thing in many "religious" people who are only Christian when it suits them. The true believers are few and far between.

EDIT: Well, there's that and also the fact that no one seems to know or agree on what the fuck feminism actually is, making it easy to hamster any choice as being truly feminist after all.

[–]Senior Contributorexit_sandman10 points11 points  (0 children) | Copy

And say "be more romantic, take care of me, worship me" but be disenchanted when he actually does.

Fun fact: The female friend of a friend of mine goes exactly through this phase right now. For years she tried to shape her on-and-off-boyfriend into someone more romantic and attentive, and now that she finally succeeded for some reason she doesn't like what she got. I wonder...

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's the doublethink again. These women will happily say "man up" and then turn and complain about how they are being oppressed.

THIS!

[–]HDThoreauaway0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Can you give me an example of someone like that, who clearly falls into both groups?

Also, what do they think the difference is between their partner "manning up" and their being "oppressed"?

[–]enticingasthatmaybe21 points22 points  (0 children) | Copy

They do desperately want their dude to be a macho cowboy, but they haven't the slightest fucking clue how to create a macho cowboy. So, they use the only tools they know - shame and nagging. The which do not create macho cowboys.

[–]TheD_11 points12 points  (1 child) | Copy

Setting boundaries where there were previously none, tends to anger people.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I think this is the most important takeaway from this situation. I was reading up on how a circle of friends might aggressively try to maintain the status quo when one friend starts changing, even if its for the better. Its rooted in nature, in how our brains function. Most relationships are not balanced, and people tend to react viscerally when someone upsets that harmony. Think of the "well, fuck me" reaction you had the last time you saw a loser friend get a girlfriend or stand up for himself.

[–]Osiris1111115 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy

This really struck a chord. Concise, well written and addressing an important issue. I think it should have a place on the side bar.

[–]eccentricrealist13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's like watching American Beauty in real life. Hopefully these guys don't get killed by a closet gay military man, of course.

[–]Senior Contributorexit_sandman8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Kudos.

[–]1Mikesapien8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Being fundamentally dissatisfied is central to self-improvement.

“Man cannot remake himself without suffering, for he is both the marble and the sculptor.” -Alexis Carrel

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'm brand new to The Red Pill. After hearing years of feminist theory seeing my friends have their lives fundamentally change because their partners demanded it, I felt like I needed to think in fundamentally different ways. And yes, I've heard all these criticisms of TRP. So this was a great introduction to what ACTUALLY goes on here.

[–]Femme_Murican5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

Those women have their boyfriends pussywhipped badly, of course the relationship was going fine for the women never putting any work in and sex only when they want. The men were changed by he women

[–]cdlawton074 points5 points  (1 child) | Copy

That men should be falling over themselves getting in line for the right to say “I have a girlfriend,” and nothing more. Men are sick of this. U This just happened to my brother last week. He took an old friend from high school who is in grad school now out for a day on the lake because all he wanted was some eye candy to look at. After that, she had a conversation with him that consisted of her telling him he may have a chance with her if he plays his cards right. We both got a kick out of that.

[–]opencover2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Girls are easy to deal with if you don't try with them. Give no more than you promise. A day on the lake is ... a day on the lake.

[–][deleted] 14 points15 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is quite an amazing post. It's probably a good bet that women who have a man turn Redpill on them are too inundated with solipsism to even consider that the reason for his conversion was intimately tied to her poor behavior.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Great post, OP. Hope it wakes up those lurkers that might be going through what you've described.

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (1 child) | Copy

applause SO thankful i discovered this at the tender age of 22

[–][deleted] 15 points16 points  (0 children) | Copy

Amazing post. Well put. Of course pushing women out of relationship fairy land where we do everything for them and they do very little for us is traumatic for them, and it should be. They'll get over it and if they don't, we'll get over them.

[–]1neveragoodtime12 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy

Great post. It's like these TRP haters are missing the entire point. He's not turning to TRP to fix the relationship, he's looking to attract a better girl.

[–][deleted] 11 points12 points  (0 children) | Copy

What these stories show, more than anything else, is that females typically fail to actually understand a partner's feelings. In a LTR with a beta, she measures his happiness by how many gifts, how much commitment, how much he gives up for her. She sees this as a sign that he likes he way things are going. The real reason for these sacrifices, however, is the desperate need for their partner to put out.

So what they fail to understand is that they aren't detecting their partner's happiness in the relationship : quite the opposite, they are detecting their partner's desperation. As such, they try to promote the behaviors that result in more desperation (they see this as happiness) and, without even realizing it, torture their partners with an unfulfilled relationship.

[–][deleted]  (5 children) | Copy

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[–]Doctor_Mayhem1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Good news, as you start gaining more and more muscle, your posture and walk will be forced into a change. It's like the muscle gets in your way and you have no choice but to walk and sit like a man.

[–]RedPillJohnny0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

While driving around during my lunch break I realized that I'm actually happy again.

I was doing this yesterday too...and I am finally comfortable enough with myself to accept it (the happiness) and not go into my own self sustained self generated BS.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy

Try doing body weight squats. Joe Rogan recommends them and I've found them to be quite effective.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy

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[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Bad ass! I'd recommend investing in a 35 lb kettlebell as well. I do a workout in my trailer on the rig: 10 body weight squats/10 kettlebell swings/10 push ups/30 seconds plank. Repeat that for as many rounds as you can. Every little bit counts on your journey from fat ass to fit person!

[–]Newwby12 points13 points  (3 children) | Copy

Rest of the post was great but why are you implying fiction is a waste of time? You might as well throw in all forms of art with that statement because fiction is typically an exploration of culture presented in a different fashion. Fiction is worthwhile for what it can tell us about the real world. Any kind of reading (and consequently learning) is worthwhile.

[–]bat_mayn17 points18 points  (1 child) | Copy

I think it was just a misguided statement. When I think about how he says it, I believe he actually means to not get too involved in escapism. Don't try to live in a video game, don't binge on make-believe worlds all the time, etc. The prime directive in your life should be to focus on yourself and be a better man, and that's hard to do when you're always returning to your escapist habits.

[–]Newwby3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

I don't see video gaming or reading (particularly the latter) as escapism for the reasons I stated above.

That said I'm a game/app developer (and aspiring novelist in my spare time) so perhaps I put a lot more weight into those hobbies because studying either is beneficial to my career.

[–]2johnnight2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Because fiction is a waste of your finite time. It is entertainment. We need a little entertainment, but not much.

I say this as a guy who has read too much fiction.

[–]lawlqq12 points13 points  (1 child) | Copy

I am 23 years old and can honestly say I am truly happy and hopeful for the first time in years. I no longer have to project my happiness because it just happens. The information on this site and in the books that are recommended reading are invaluable. Never again will I put a women on a pedestal. Never again will I have to be a puppet. I will forever be thankful for trp. So far it has been the single most pivotal point in my life. And for that, I am forever grateful

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

Guys in the “my man went Red Pill and ruined our relationship” Reddit posts probably aren’t actually going to internet sites to get an instruction manual for how to piss off their girlfriends.

Since women always think it is only about them this idea makes sense if you view it from the position of that woman. The conclusion is totally irrantional from any other point of view though.

[–]foxthechicken6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy

I am dealing with a major crossroads in my life with my live-in girlfriend whom I moved in along with her three-year-old daughter and am raising as my own. This post definitely opened my eyes.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

The Red Pill exists because many men aren’t happy. Because these relationships that are allegedly “just fine” are very much NOT just fine. Because men are giving so much to their women and getting so little, with the assumption that merely existing – merely being a presence in the man’s life – is all a woman needs to do to become his highest priority. That men should be falling over themselves getting in line for the right to say “I have a girlfriend,” and nothing more. Men are sick of this.

Merely being there, saying "I love you," doesn't cut it. We're men. We don't take things at face-value.

You want to something from me? Work for it, show me you deserve my affection.

If you act like a bitch, and at the same time, want me to "love" you, tough shit, bitch. If my motorcycle has a bad part, I don't get attached to it, I replace it. Just like that, if something, or someone in my life is acting out, giving me shit, I don't spend too much time around them after figuring out they're not going to change. I replace them.

No one is going to fall over themselves for you because you got a pussy. Over here, men and women are valued for what they bring to the table. And you have nothing.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Women don't like the idea of men reclaiming/rediscovering their masculinity because it would diminish the amount of control they have over sex and relationships...it would mean an end to their free ride...that is why they want to suppress masculinity, because it would liberate men from their passive subjugation to women and permit men to regain control. Everyone with power ALWAYS fears losing it along with the privileges it accords them. Its not these women are afraid these men are using and abusing women...quite the contrary...they are afraid that men will stop letting women use and abuse them. Males are the only one still forced to adhere to traditional roles while women are allowed free reign to anything they want...the reason for this is that men have allowed women to consistently raise the price of sex...rather men should learn to DEPRECIATE its value and to show women that their sexual assets have less worth than they ascribe to it. Only then can a fair exchange transpire. Why is it that men are seen as taking advantage of women when women CHOOSE to enter relationships with them? Are they admitting that they are consistently outsmarted by men and require males to "hold back". Why don't they take responsibility for LETTING themselves be used...besides if its wrong for men to pursue and use women for sex, why isn't wrong for women to do so to men, but for their money. You see its OKAY for men to be mistreated and enslaved to women for an unfair wage of infrequent sex...because it serves the interests of women. And furthermore, any man who attempts to utilize rationality when trying to crack the "complex" mind of a woman is doomed to failure...why? Because unlike what men are accustomed to, the mind of a woman does not adhere to the principles of reality, rationality and logic. It is designed by nature to instinctively respond to its baser primitive emotions...you can't make sense of women not because they are intricate and deep but because women live in a fantasy world with their own made up precepts and rules. Most of the time even THEY don't know what they want because they're just going with the flow so to speak...nature intended women to have the attention span of a fly to incentivize reproduction with as many wlphas as possible. However women also feel threatened by the very alphas they are attracted to...because they would compromise their interests concerning reproductive supeririority...women need men to remain betas in order to control them.

[–]homosexualsaipian5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

These women are bitching because they can no longer rely on beta cunt who lives for the one but instead live for themselves. They feel threatened because their men could float any moment if they do not submit to their male partners. Delicious irony. TRP is truly a powerful ideology for men.

[–]1raceAround1264 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

TRP would have saved my relationship had I found it sooner. The changes I went through prior to finding this sub certainly reignited her interest. Sadly it was too late for me. I was well out of love with her at that point. But had it been sooner, then I would say TRP would have saved it.

Proof: she still tries to contact me

[–]watersign12 points13 points  (2 children) | Copy

What I appreciate most about The Red Pill is the self-improvement factor that is more or less shunned in Marxist America.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

It may just be the american spirit is reinvigorating. I am happy for this for more reasons than just red pill.

[–]1rape_is_bad_mkay7 points8 points  (10 children) | Copy

Well said, but I have a concern.

I've heard similar stories before, with the difference that it was feminism that made the woman turn into some hateful self-important cunt. She got all amped up by that girl-power stuff and decided she wanted some of that, but only turned into someone who everyone except feminists hated.

How can we make sure we're not making the same mistake feminists make?

[–]slideforlife10 points11 points  (2 children) | Copy

the difference between feminists and red pill'ers is that RPs seem to want to damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead and feminists want to gum up the ocean so that no ships can sail -just in case.

[–]HDThoreauaway0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

Can you explain what you mean by that? That went right over my head.

[–]slideforlife5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy

you must really like reading my shit.. ok,

feminism requires greater social controls and mandates to insure that no inconvenience interferes with its goals.

RPs seek to overcome their own personal adversity, failures and challenges by confronting them and learning from them.

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger[S] 25 points26 points  (3 children) | Copy

How can we make sure we're not making the same mistake feminists make?

What's it matter?

If you become the greatest man you can be, you're physically fit, professionally successful, socially apt and well-connected, and full of useful skills and interesting hobbies, sexual success just falls into place. Not only does your life rock on its own, but women want to fuck you and be a part of the awesome ride that is your life.

Who cares if she "likes" you or "hates" you the same way we like or hate feminists? Your life is awesome and women fuck you for it. What more do you want? Public opinion to side with you? Phhht.

[–]1rape_is_bad_mkay2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy

If you become the greatest man you can be

No problem there, if that's the result.

My definition of a better man is someone who is better in the eyes of people who know him. If his woman starts hating him instead of getting more attracted instead, then he may just be changing himself for the worse.

Some people get greed in their eyes and forget the true purpose. I'm not so sure if applauding every guy that goes to change because he heard something about us is a good thing. The results and his reasons matter too.

I'm not just speaking for myself. The first seduction teacher I met had high standards for the kind people he wanted to teach things to. I now realize he may have had had a good point.

[–]1independentmale2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

My definition of a better man is someone who is better in the eyes of people who know him.

No. Fuck what others think. I strive to make myself a better man for ME.

The only reason any man cares what others think is because he still needs their validation. He needs them to tell him who he is, and he will change himself to suit their ideals in order to get that validation. Unfortunately there is no way to win this game. Everyone has a different opinion. One friend may give you validation for losing weight while another will shame you for the same. As long as you seek validation from others, you can never be truly happy.

Do what you want. Live for yourself. Your opinion of yourself is the only one that matters.

If his woman starts hating him instead of getting more attracted instead, then he may just be changing himself for the worse.

Or she's trying to hold him down, to keep him from realizing his true potential. People do this to others all the time, especially women. They're notorious for it.

[–]1Mikesapien6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

It doesn't matter that we're liked or hated. What matters is why we're liked or hated. Remember, they hated Socrates for speaking the truth, too.

[–]Endless_Summer3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Because feminism isn't about self improvement like RP

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy

Beautiful. Could not have said better.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

The reason for this one sidedness in relationships and why women freak out when men defy established norms comes down to simple principles of economics and power. Women currently have an illusion of power because they believe themselves to be the holders of one of the worlds most valuable resources...sex...sadly though men have allowed themselves to lose their bartering leverage over this particular good and given it to women through decades of devaluing their own role as a gender while elevating women to an undeserved position of reverence and respect. Women today like to treat their I masculine male counterparts as little puppies there to lick their hands at their behest and to stand gaurd...but ultimately in service to them...women have become so privileged and seem to mistakenly believe that they hold the reigns to sex...and thusly feel that they control men by proxy. A fact of nature is that there will ALWAYS be a dominant and submissive force...the question then is which force is TRULY dominant and which is truly naturally intended to be submissive? It is the fault of men that women have become so spoiled and entitled. That is why women feel so threatened when they witness men reclaiming control...because then reality begins to show them that their fairytale is just that...a fairytale...an unnatural deviation...like any spoiled child they fear the firmness of a disciplinary parental figure. They believe that they are OWED respect and privilege as if it were some God given right and not simply the result of men coddling them. Women are like children...undeserving of the respect they are given...unless a woman shows me that she has more value than sex than she is nothing to me. True equality scares the hell out of women. They would be trounced if that were truly the case...instead they like to play pretend...they prefer the illusion of equality with safety nets that ensure them privileges to fall back on if they fail. Men need to show women that they are not special princesses and more valuable than gold merely because they were born with boobs and a pussy...

[–]NotReallyEthicalLOL2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Seriously, TRP is more about seizing your life. A side effect is that you become more desirable to women.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

You hit the nail on the fucking head. It's almost as if you read my mind.

[–]ont_anon7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

I read that as if it was a motivational speech from coach before the big game! Loved it!

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Well said. Agreed on sidebar material.

[–]87GNX6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy

This is the best post I've read on here in a fucking month.

This is like, seriously, when I first found TRP, I had a few posts set as my firefox home tabs so I would read and re-read them whenever I opened the browser.

I'm not at that point anymore but this is definitely browser home tab worthy shit.

[–]groudhogday3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

See, what I never understood about the need for TRP is that the relationship you described, where the woman takes advantage of the man for his money, is completely unrealistic with every relationship I've witnessed. Most of my female friends go dutch on dates and do (non-sexual) things for their boyfriends. We also enjoy sex.

Maybe the problem is not with women, but with the women who are selfish, manipulative assholes. Much like the men who are selfish, manipulative assholes.

[–]bertstare101 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

I can think of one friend who is unhappy but won't admit it or lead on to it. I can see it in the way he talks about her or the stories he tells and trying to rationalize her behavior to me (but really himself). For example, we are out to get a slice of pizza the other day, she calls, and wanted him to talk on the phone to her the whole time we were there. She hung up on him when he explained he was eating pizza with me. What the fuck?

[–]reiduh1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

Placing this holder here for me and a few others to read. Wake Up, boys.

The Red Pill tells men that since their time is their most valuable resource, quit wasting it on women when you’re not getting something of equal value in return.

[–]LadyLumen1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's when you piss people off that you know something is working. Change the social order, and you will unleash a swarm of wasps no matter how good your intentions are.

[–]HDThoreauaway6 points7 points  (3 children) | Copy

I think OP is right on the money: The Red Pill would not exist if men were not unhappy. I'd say it goes even further than that: men are downright angry. My concern is that, despite the self-improvement tenets of this sub, that anger is what is ultimately driving things, far more than the mission of making Red Pill men into better, more effective people.

As an exercise, let's look at the top ten highest-voted posts on TRP. You can do this exercise with any random handful, but as the highest-voted, they're indisputably representative of the community.

  • How many are primarily about victimhood at the hands of women?
  • How many are primarily about getting revenge?
  • How many are primarily about the shortcomings of women?
  • How many are about the deplorable domination by women of the male?
  • And how many are actually about the things you can do to improve yourself as a person, separate from simply using bravado to hurt other people?

My count is 4, 3, 3, 4, and 2, respectively. Your count may vary, but you see my point. Incidentally, the top three articles -- gold, silver, and bronze -- are all stories of victimhood and revenge.

I'm counting #5, which is an argument for why you should be an "asshole," as the sole article in the self-improvement category. I'll throw in #8, too, which claims to be a run-down of TRP philosophy, as a self-improvement article too. But when you read it you'll see that the majority of it is just more generic woman-bashing. From the bulleted list, here are the first sentences of the first three bullets:

  • Feminists claim they want equality but what they really want is power without responsibility.
  • Women are irrational and inconsistent, they have a capacity for logic but it is not their modus operandi, that is to say that they must exert effort to be logical as it is not their factory setting.
  • Women are machiavellian in nature, this means they are comparatively proficient at being manipulative versus the typical male.

This is the eighth-most popular article on this sub, and is the highest-ranked article claiming to speak for the tenets of the community. And it is completely full of generic, misogynistic assertions like the ones above. Is the DNA of this sub truly that negative?

It's true: this sub is about self-improvement, in that the people here do want to improve themselves. And it's about confidence and self-assertion, in that everyone here agrees that those are good things. And yes, you can point to submissions that link to self-help resources -- there's a decent one in the #12 spot, for instance, that even avoids taking any swings at women.

But the real glue that holds this sub together is anger. It's anger at women who wouldn't sleep with them, and at feminists who make them feel defensive for simply wanting to fuck beautiful women. It's anger at the marriage that they're stuck in, or that they can't stay in, or that failed to be anything like what they'd been sold. It's anger at women who hurt them, who betrayed them, or who thought they were "creepy," and even made them feel that way. And it's anger at who they were, and who they are, and the men whose miserable stories remind them so much of their own.

I wrote this comment for a different thread, and was going to suggest another experiment where you expand all the comments on a random article, minimize those that are primarily about being angry, or betrayed, or about how some group of people are inferior, and then see what you have left. But then I saw this post, currently #1 on TRP, entitled simply, "Men are not happy." It's been gilded three times, and is entirely about how The Red Pill only exists because men are upset, angry, depressed, and unhappy.

That's what this entire sub is really all about.

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points  (0 children) | Copy

Men should be angry. If you arent angry you arent paying attention.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy

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[–]user_none4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy

I'll just leave this powerful quote here that's been with me for a long time.

Bitterness is like cancer. It eats upon the host. But anger is like fire. It burns it all clean.

-Maya Angelou

[–]cowboyhaze3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Great fucking post.

[–]d3gu2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy

Red pill behaviour =/=asshole behaviour.

Although of course some redpillers are assholes, not every asshole is a redpiller. I suppose anyone who is fundamentalist anything (christian, feminist, religious, left-winger, right-winger) is offputting, and not fun to be around. I don't like really overzealous people of any persuasion; I think it's great to subscribe to a theory or lifestyle - but I find it scary when peoples' personalities get taken over.

I personally find passive-agressiveness and wimpyness/whining/bitching/tantrums much harder to deal with. Give me a guy who speaks his mind and knows what he wants any day.

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy

Its like in /r/seduction (bless their hearts) every so often a women will post " a guy tried to use PUA stuff on me, you guys are stupid, it doesn't work "

How do you know he was doing that?

[–]COVERartistLOL3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy

This is why I love Red pill. Not because I'm unhappy in my relationship. But cause I enjoy hearing about other peoples experiences when it comes to dealing with relationships.

They don’t want to be sweet and sensitive and do things for women all day long and be the “perfect boyfriend,” while having subpar sex once every six weeks, paying out the ass for expensive dates and gifts, sacrificing personal time, and getting bitched at and threatened with a break-up if any of this perfect behavior ever dips slightly. They don’t want to give backrubs and footrubs, stay at home one weekend a month while their women have a night out with the girls, get disrespected and talked about behind their backs, get cheated on (but just harmless, meaningless mistakes that don’t really count!), and get berated when they push back against any of this. They don’t want to let women move in, rent-free, and get pressured to buy a ring for a four-digit number of dollars and tie their finances to someone who makes less than half as much money, just because they’ve been “dating awhile” and “it’s time” and they’re “supposed to.”"

If this is true. Than I feel bad for all my straight fellows. Getting sex once every 6 weeks. That's f**king crazing. My boyfriend and I masturbate at least 4 times a week(We're in a long distance relationship, so it's all video chat). And I never expect him to buy men expensive gifts or take me on costly dates. I'm actually just fine with us cuddling, eating pizza while watching netflix. And I respect my boyfriends personal time, as he does mine. So if he wanted a guys night out, I wouldn't care and would be all for it(As long as hes safe and not screwing other people). And cheating is out of the question. I never consider that a mistake and neither does he. And I guess since we're a gay couple, we don't gotta deal with society or families pressuring us to get married.

But it seems like most of these qualities you mentioned aren't really about women or girlfriends. And more about being selfish, narcissistic, controlling, uncaring, and bias. which is something that can happen in both genders. But other than that, I agree with the rest of the post. Red Pill doesn't turn men abusive, and controlling. Anymore than violent video games turn people into serial killers. People are responsible for their own actions.

[–][deleted] 2 points2 points | Copy

[permanently deleted]

[–]conv3rsion-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Its extremely self selecting.

[–]slideforlife-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

ab-so-fucking-lutely

[–]EscortSportage0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy

i dont think ill ever be happy with 1 woman, iam struggling with my current relationship.

[–]Geocan0011 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

If you're not happy, leave. Red Pill Up and go get some lay.

Source: Had this problem. Now ex is sniffing around of her own accord. It's nitce to hold the balance of power.

[–]dan78880 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Well wrote, gunslinger.

[–]LadyLumen0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Good point. The red pill wouldn't exist if men were happy. It also wouldn't be so popular - I mean, there are 55,000 subscribers and climbing.

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy

[deleted]

[–]HDThoreauaway-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Yeah, I think TRP gives a lot of emotionally lazy people a justification to be even lazier, the same way Atkins gave dietarily lazy people a justification to triple their cheeseburger intake because they took the top bun off. You can do some damn fool things screwing around with tools you don't plan to use properly.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

well said!

[–]Hardparty0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Quality post, great read.

[–]amerryunbirthday0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Has to be one of the best posts I've read on TRP. Golden

[–]JGH87630 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

be sweet and sensitive...be the “perfect boyfriend,”...give backrubs and footrubs

I actually kind of like doing those things. The other stuff is right out, though.

[–]9me1230 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

Read non-fiction instead of fiction

Why? Fiction isn't always bad, and non-fiction isn't always good.

[–]Monobrow02-2 points-1 points  (2 children) | Copy

"Read non-fiction instead of fiction". Please don't write things like that. It makes TRP look like a bunch of neanderthals/frat boys. Reading the complete works of Shakespeare is surely more valuable than thumbing through another self help manual.

[–]TRP VanguardArchwinger[S] 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy

Reading the complete works of Shakespeare is surely more valuable than thumbing through another self help manual.

Learning how your car works and how to change your own oil and tires, how to grill a steak, how to file your own trademark application, how to start your own LLC, common theories of management and leadership, how to communicate more effectively and deliver public speeches, how to excel at your profession, better workout routines and ways to avoid injury, better nutrition, or just about any other skill or hobby under the sun is far more useful than reading the Game of Thrones books.

There's more to self-improvement than books on game, female psychology, and the MMSL primer.

[–]Monobrow02-1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

Everything you've written above is irrelevant because in the OP you simply wrote "Read non-fiction instead of fiction". If in the OP you'd written:"read useful non-fiction books rather than lowbrow trash like Game of Thrones" then I would have had no complaints.... (By the way, I agreed with everything else in your first post so this is really just a small complaint).

[–]purplepill110-3 points-2 points  (2 children) | Copy

I agree that the red pill doesn't make people in to assholes.

Assholes find that the red pill supports their assholeness.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

It's awesome like that, amirite???

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy

lol... reading comprehension much?

[–]Riadyt-2 points-1 points  (2 children) | Copy

I'm a man and I am happy.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy

I am also happy. I also took the Red Pill a long time ago.

[–]3Gf93bMtX3-4 points-3 points  (0 children) | Copy

And what these men do seems so simple. Work out, focus on your career, practice your social skills and get confident, develop useful skills and interesting hobbies – essentially, quit wasting time. Read non-fiction instead of fiction, watch less TV, play less video games, quit jerking off to porn, spend that time doing something that makes you physically, mentally, or socially better.

This^

[–]EscortSportage-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

:)

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy

makes me thankful to have a gf who doesn't want any of money and is happy to have sex 10 times a week.

[–]McDoner-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

Excellent post, but I missed the memo on jerking off to porn. Well, I'm just gonna go over here and ughhhh.... Take a nap... And don't disturb me...

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

The only way the title of this posts could be better is if it read: "Men are not haaaaaaaaaaapy"

just to play off the women who've patented that drawn out A in all sorts of words...

[–]WTF7777777-2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy

Paragraph 1. Relationships have a finite life anyway. Relationships fizzle. Why ? (from dictionary.com) FAMILIARITY BREEDS CONTEMPT The better we know people, the more likely we are to find fault with them. Long experience of someone or something can make one so aware of the faults as to be scornful. For example, Ten years at the same job and now he hates it familiarity breeds contempt . The idea is much older, but the first recorded use of this expression was in Chaucer's Tale of Melibee (c. 1386). So divorce happens.

Paragraph 2. I don't know, what is TRP saying a relationship ought to be besides a man groveling to get sex?

Paragraph 3. Exactly.

Paragraph 4. And isn't that exactly what most men end up doing? Betting half their income and assets that she'll love him forever or that he'll want her to?

Paragraph 6. You must be referring to the tall alpha male. It's a fact. 20% of men are making it with 80% of the women. Oh sure after they get fed up they might take a 10 year break to marry a safe bet beta male who'll they'll divorce and take to the financial cleaners, but they'll ultimately become again one of the 80% making it with the 20% alpha males.

Paragraph 7. Good advice. Please emphasize Don't get married next time! ! See /r/killmarriage for must read books and documentaries an the scam that is marriage.

Paragraph 8. It's the I want to feel normal and complete phenomena that is perhaps in our DNA. I totally get it and am trying to break away from it myself. Read the book Men on Strike by Dr. Helen Smith.

Paragraph 9. Just wait till you're 50, divorced 3 times, broke and working 2 jobs to pay your child support. That's 50% of us and you're right, we're not happy!! Don't get married and don't have children in the US. It's a waste of your life.

[–][deleted] -5 points-4 points  (0 children) | Copy

The answer to the Universe. tyty

[–][deleted]  (1 child) | Copy

[deleted]

[–]TooMuchToDoo1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy

It's a figure of speech man.



You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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