Dr Phil under attack for 'misogynist tweet' which merely contained the question "Is it ok to have sex with a drunk woman?"

ruffleshiffle · 2013-08-21T03:03:51+00:00

See also this trending change.org petition and this article in the Herald Sun.

There are many things perplexing about this. Firstly, you have to wonder why Dr. Phil makes this a gendered issue, as if the situation somehow changed if a man is drunk. Secondly, perhaps even more perplexing, why is the mere act of asking the question construed as misogynistic and indicative of rape culture, when Dr Phil nowhere indicates that he accepts or condones rape?

ChrisHernandez · 2013-08-21T03:29:06+00:00

Is it ok to have sex with a drunk man?

giegerwasright · 2013-08-21T03:00:45+00:00

So.... no more drunken sex ever? The birth rate is going to plummet

AbCynthia956 · 2013-08-21T03:53:19+00:00

Sorry to intrude, gentlemen. I'm a heterosexual woman and I'll likely take shit for this - I love drunk sex. Every woman I know loves drunk sex. Seriously. I've asked lots of women. That's probably why it KEEPS HAPPENING. No, I'm not talking about sex with some homeless guy I passed out next to. Here's the thing: I don't get drunk with lots of drunk strangers. I don't pass out or become insanely irresponsible in the company of people I don't know. Because it's a stupid thing to do and I'm a grown up. That policy and statement undoubtedly make me a self-righteous, judgmental bitch instead of a prudent adult. (I just won't click my orangered for a day or two) I'll be moseying along now. Have a good evening ~Prudent Adult Passerby who stands by her Policy of Personal Responsibility

egalitarian_activist · 2013-08-21T03:51:23+00:00

Feminists say that if a drunk man and a drunk woman agree to have sex, the man raped the woman, because drunk women can't consent. But using that logic, the man couldn't consent either, so she raped him as well. So why isn't the woman a rapist? I haven't seen any feminists answer that question.

JakeDDrake · 2013-08-21T05:00:02+00:00

Why are you looking for a greenlight to rape from twitter? (one of the twitter comments)

God these people are dense.

Setting a topic of discussion does NOT mean he wants to perform the actions described in said topic.

darkmuskrat · 2013-08-21T03:58:35+00:00

If he posted "Is abortion OK. Y/N" or any similar controversial subject I'm sure he would be in the same boat. People love to be offended by anything.

What they forget is its okay to be offended. And its okay to be offensive. Move on.

kinggluejar · 2013-08-21T12:27:45+00:00

If there's any feminist out there or anyone out there that can explain this to me I'll be fine. I understand that if she doesn't consent, if she's drugged, or if she passed out then it's rape. But other than that I honestly don't have a clue. This is a serious inquiry don't get mad at me. Here are several questions that I still don't understand:

Is it rape if she consents while she is drunk? If not what if she regrets it afterwards?
What happens when the guy is equally drunk? (assuming you consider #1 rape) is he a rapist? is she a rapist?
What if the guy doesn't know (or understand the extent to which) she is drunk? is it still rape?
Do you think a drunk driver should be held accountable for reckless behavior? Should this same mentality be applied to victims of rape? If not are you suggesting that (assuming you also answered yes for 1,2, or 3) a woman should not be held accountable even the slightest for making decisions that put her in the situation?

Once again, I honestly have no clue.

2013-08-21T06:07:45+00:00

Look at how they so quickly and without empathy cast him aside after 30-40 years of being a mangina for them.

CACKENBOOLS · 2013-08-21T05:51:05+00:00

Salon fucking hates Dr. Phil.

He empowers women to fix the issues in their lives, and Salon considers that victim blaming.

superangelo64 · 2013-08-21T11:33:47+00:00

Dr. Phil is a notorious feminist quack. Forgive me if I don't feel sorry when he gets a taste of his own medicine.

CACKENBOOLS · 2013-08-21T07:01:00+00:00

[permanently deleted]

giegerwasright · 2013-08-21T04:03:54+00:00

I think Dr. Phil is an idiot. I'm not a fan. This question, though, isn't misogynist at all. It's a question. He wasn't inferring his own opinion either way. He was asking the people of the internet what they think. It's a valid question considering that the issue is far from settled. That people are responding with such outrage over the asking of the question is just as worthy of discussion as the question itself, but it isn't going to make those outraged people look very good.

I think that rather than delete the tweet, Dr. Phil should have left it up and engaged the discussion. Deleting the tweet was cowardly. If nothing else, the vehement response that he got proved that it should be discussed.

And now, kids, it's your favorite show; Story Time With Uncle Gieger!

A while back, I was dating a young lady. She and I were discussing the experience of losing our virginity. Mine was terrible. It was all "Ow ow ow owowowow" and "If it's hurting you we should stop" and "No we have to keep going" and then blood on my dick... it was horrific. I don't ever want to repeat the experience again.

What did my newer paramour think? "You should have gotten her drunk."

"Are you fucking kidding me? Do you know what kind of trouble that shit could lead to for me?"

"Yeah. Well. Whatever, you should have gotten her drunk."

"Wait a minute. Gina. Do you comprehend the kind of trouble that that could get me in? Seriously? Do you?"

Nope. Not an iota of comprehension. Empathy. It's just not something women are taught to have. Nor is perspective.

Canadianelite · 2013-08-21T08:53:59+00:00

Response: "If a man is drunk is it okay to use the money in his wallet?"

Like society doesn't take advantage of drunk men losing their money management skills to alcohol.

Revoran · 2013-08-21T06:16:10+00:00

You know good and goddamn well that “asking” when a girl “deserves” to be raped is a destructive question in itself. #DrPhilQuestions

Lol because if the woman is drunk it's automatically rape right?

Where is /u/Everything_is_rape when you need him?

Lance_lake · 2013-08-21T14:24:00+00:00

Is it okay to have sex with drunk men? Why is this a one way road....

ThatCynicalCynicism · 2013-08-21T17:45:50+00:00

So, even asking a question means you that hate someone nowadays?

2013-08-21T18:12:15+00:00

Ah, Dr. Phil.

He forgot the primary rule, which is you are welcome until you say something that upsets us, then you're just as much a shitlord as all the other men.

Disillusi0n · 2013-08-21T21:49:54+00:00

Doesn't matter how pro-women you are, "Dr." Phil, they will turn on you in a heartbeat for the slightest perceived transgression.

But he'll probably just apologize and prostrate himself profusely. That's how he makes his money.

valenin · 2013-08-21T06:40:09+00:00

I can't decide what impresses me more about the last 'retaliatory' tweet given in the article:

If a guy is drunk, is it OK to use the money in his wallet? Reply yes or no. (Link removed) #RapeCulture #DrPhilQuestions

Is it the failure to acknowledge that the analagous question is (should be) "If a guy is drunk is it okay to have sex with him?" or is it the implicit (but subconscious) acknowledgement of the idea that the woman's sex has value to potential predators, but the man's value is his money/utility.

Edit: Removed link from tweet, sorry about that.

23Red · 2013-08-21T10:43:28+00:00

It's really fucking stupid that people are being taught that having sex with a drunk girl = rape.

It used to be that roofies were used in date rape. Do feminists really think that low of themselves to say that if a woman drinks she has no control over herself?

scanspeak · 2013-08-21T14:08:26+00:00

Get with the program people. Woman are royalty and to question or criticize them is treason deserving of a beheading.

ReverendVerse · 2013-08-21T14:39:13+00:00

So now people who write polling questions can be labeled as sexist and/or racist now.

Edit: phone's auto correct.

HeyZuesHChrist · 2013-08-21T15:11:43+00:00

For those looking for the answer to this questions, it's yes. It's OK to have sex with somebody who is drunk as long as they consent. This goes for men and women.

I'm not even sure why people consider this a debatable topic.

lazlounderhill · 2013-08-21T15:35:30+00:00

No, actually the media has spun it to now mean (despite the actual words that were in the tweet) "Is it ok to have sex with a drunk teen girl?"

Why you ask? Because then every drunk, adult woman who has sex (I would argue that a vast majority of single adult women are more often slightly intoxicated while having sex, than not) would have to reconcile the notion that consent is not possible (according to feminists) while under the influence of drugs or alcohol, with the accepted and commonplace behavior of a vast majority of contemporary single women.

RECONCILE THIS:

A tweet from Dr. Phil McGraw's verified Twitter account soliciting opinions on teen sex was deleted within hours of it being published.

WITH THIS (the actual tweet):

If a girl is drunk, is it OK to have sex with her? Reply Yes or No to @drphil

So we've essentially made the leap from "girl" to "teen girl", and now that we've established that "girl" now means "teen girl" (not child girl, or women - just teen girl) - we know how to appropriately treat adult women who refer to themselves as "girls", and at what emotional/mental maturity level they, in fact, are.

Now, I challenge anyone of you to go on r/askwomen and ask them if consent for females (because that's the only sex that this is applicable to, apparently) is possible if they are under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

I did this very thing two months back, and was summarily banned for it. Why? Because the vast majority of "girls" vehemently argued that consent was possible while under the influence of alcohol and drugs, and the feminists mods didn't like the fact that I elicited that response. So banned.

This topic scares the shit out of feminists because it is one of many hallmark issues that would drive a huge wedge between feminist ideology and your average women, who is VERY RELUCTANT to give up the practice of going out, getting pissed and hooking up, or coming home to fuck their boyfriends/fiance's/husbands - which is something that happens millions of times every fucking night, all across the world.

pluvoaz · 2013-08-21T15:59:36+00:00

Wow! They sure were quick to turn on one of their own.

Blemish · 2013-08-21T05:36:37+00:00

Feminists will have their panties in a wad.

MasterKashi · 2013-08-21T05:50:57+00:00

So he can shit on people with mental illness and call them freaks, ON HIS SHOW, and nobody does a god damned thing, but ask this one question on twitter, and OH SHIT. Fuck everything about this whole thing.

LocalMadman · 2013-08-21T13:16:31+00:00

They did it.

kingsmuse · 2013-08-21T08:25:26+00:00

Hysterical.

Probably the only non-moronic question Dr.Phil ever asked gets him heat.

I love it.

Mytecacc · 2013-08-21T11:49:59+00:00

This is a manufactured drama, IMO.

ANBU_Black_0ps · 2013-08-21T13:05:30+00:00

Personally I think a large part of the problem with this discussion is that drunk is a very ambiguous term. If we look at a field like the mental health field, terms like depressed and bipolar mean something clinically. When stated in a clinical setting all the clinicians know exactly what what it means when people use those terms.

Drunk however is very ambiguous. Just look at how many people either here or on twitter automatically went to "drunk = passed out" when that isn't the case. It is possible to be drunk and still be awake, active and responsive.

So then the question becomes well how much alcohol can a person imbibe and still be able to give consent? 1 drink, 2? The answer probably is that it varies from person to person depending on a number of factors such as tolerance, body weight, genetics etc. The problem is that there are those who want to create a single standard in an arena where you really cannot.

intensely_human · 2013-08-21T13:11:36+00:00

If a guy is drunk, is it OK to use the money in his wallet? Reply yes or no. http://t.co/eAZvhc11nn #RapeCulture #DrPhilQuestions

— Chin Lu (@ChinHuaLu) August 21, 2013

anonymous_troll · 2013-08-21T13:12:51+00:00

See, the fact that there's so much anger is evidence of the issues that women face in our country. How dare he ask such a question! He should be in jail. I can't believe that my university's president hasn't come out to make a statement against what he's said! I feel so betrayed.

Code347 · 2013-08-21T16:22:36+00:00

Dr. Phil should be under attack for his choice of Skullet. He should shave it off already and become Mr. Clean.

If people were as outraged about the NSA spying stuff as they were about a tweet from Dr. Phil, this would be a great country indeed.

dublbagn · 2013-08-21T17:17:19+00:00

the quotes in the article take things a bit out of context, as any stable person can read into it, he is opening up a conversation. Not asking when or if its ok to rape a women.

jesus h on a bike people take things a so far...

newmobsforall · 2013-08-21T21:40:11+00:00

The criminal standard with drinking is usually that if you chose to drink, then any decisions you made under the influence are your fault...yes, you may have done things you didn't mean to while drunk, but you made a choice to get drunk and are expected to have a reasonable grasp of consequences. Now if the person passes out, then consent can't be obtained, and if you're somehow gotten drunk against your will, then that should definitely count as non-consensual, regardless of gender.

xDrSchnugglesx · 2013-08-21T22:28:24+00:00

Oh man, apparently taking a poll or finding out the opinions of people on the Internet make you a bad guy.

"Is it okay to be racist?" I now expect to be called out for being a racist, since it seems how this kinda thing goes down now.

scanspeak · 2013-08-21T23:09:42+00:00

Hey Dr Phil. Don't you know as a male, all feminists see you as a potential rapist and woman basher by default?

"Therapist" looks too much like "the rapist".

headless_bourgeoisie · 2013-08-21T07:44:22+00:00

"Only if you are in a monogamous relationship with her and you're both drunk, able, and willing"

She must be fun at parties.

sulfura3 · 2013-08-21T08:29:16+00:00

I'm sad that it's not even allowed to ask such a question because the answer is very grey and handled poorly in courts.

In my personal opinion, it depends on "how drunk" we are talking about. Is it merely slightly drunk, which just causes the woman to be overly euphoric? Or are we talking about black-out drunk, where the woman doesn't even know what's happening around and/or to her?

Both cases are VERY different from each other but still fall under the "sex with a drunk woman" umbrella. Also, how does the situation change if the man is also drunk? What if only the man is drunk? Those things should be discussed and not shunned.

nghhnng · 2013-08-21T16:54:15+00:00

It's like "feminists" are ignoring the fact that a lot of women go out to clubs and get drunk with the intent on getting laid. I view feminism as true equality between men and women. It is completely natural for a man to go out and drink to pick up chicks, but when women go and exhibit the same behavior we're being raped? Rape is not consent, period. Drunk girls wanting to fuck and then regretting it, I would not consider to be rape. Thats just my own opinion, the line is too thin to really say whether its okay or not to have sex with a drunk woman. In my opinion, yes it is okay to sleep with a drunk woman that wants to sleep with you. No, its not okay, ever, to sleep with a drunk woman who does not want to sleep with you.

levelate · 2013-08-21T12:19:18+00:00

ha.

another pitiful mangina fallen on the feminist sword.

as i've always said, the moment an ally of the feminists speaks/acts out of turn, they are quick to throw them under the bus.

powerdeamon · 2013-08-21T13:15:05+00:00

Don't like him but that's bullshit.

Feminism, where you get called a woman hater for asking questions.

5th_Law_of_Robotics · 2013-08-21T15:41:21+00:00

I think this stems from the rigid feminist view of scientific inquiry (not that this counts but bear with me).

When they ask a question in some study it's to give them an opportunity to write up their own feelings on the subject. The conclusion is predetermined. No real attempt to gather data objectively is made. So the questions they ask are basically their conclusions.

Therefore when they see someone else ask a question they assume they are doing it in the same way. Dr. Phil wasn't asking to get responses, he was asking so he could segue in to his personal rants on why raping drunk women is ok.

It's not possible to objectively examine the subject. Because to them examining anything means you have already come up with a conclusion based on ideology and that cannot change.

Raudskeggr · 2013-08-21T09:08:07+00:00

Hi, just noticed that this links to a Salon article. Therefore this is nothing but moronic troll bait, and the only people getting sucked in are also moronic trolls.

Don't be a moronic troll...just let this one go.

FuriousMouse · 2013-08-21T12:19:39+00:00

As someone not from the USA and that don't (can't) watch Dr. Phil.

What is wrong with this question, other than in implies it could somehow be wrong to have sex with a drunk girl?

peachesgp · 2013-08-21T14:32:17+00:00

I think it's very situational for if it's ok.

Strangers - If the two parties are similar levels of drunk and want to bone, go for it. If one is sober and the other is drunk, not cool.

In a relationship - as long as you've had sex before all bets are off. I should say that I don't drink and my fiancee does but I'm not really interested when she's been drinking, just doesn't appeal to me.

Sharou · 2013-08-21T14:44:47+00:00

Why would that be misogynistic? If anything it's misandrist because he only cares about the situation with a woman as opposed to just "person".

LifterofThings · 2013-08-21T15:02:03+00:00

Meh, Dr. Phil is a "traditional" southern man, and that he treats men and women very differently is neither new nor shocking. I used to watch his show with my mother, but we had to stop cause we were getting sick of his inability to hold dem pretty lil' wimmins accountable for their bullshit.

There was one episode where a girl ran off to the Gaza strip to be with a man she'd met online. Her family thought she'd been kidnapped... begin shitstorm. She was playing everyone for attention and it was painfully obvious. Instead of "wtf, why the shit would you do this irresponsible crap and put your family through this?!", all Dr. Phil wanted to know about the young woman is that she'd found a "proper American boy". Facepalm.

That being said, if I have sons, I'll counsel them strongly against having sex with drunk women, knowing that there could be a rape charge around the corner even if she consented. Fuck that shit.

ForsakkenMerc · 2013-08-21T15:40:05+00:00

Could someone clarify on this? I mean i can see it is ok to have drunk sex if the woman is willing to but not take advantage of her if she is drunk. Which one did he mean?

TheCaptainPlanet · 2013-08-21T15:49:52+00:00

Can we not call him Dr. He erodes the prestigious honor of hard work and respect that comes with such a title of Dr. Yes I know he has a doctorate but...

scramtek · 2013-08-21T16:33:27+00:00

Give the guy a break. He wasn't proposing a rhetorical question.
He was presented with an inebriated female gagging for some Philarmonic dick.
He was simply looking for confirmation before delving into her pie.

2013-08-21T16:37:50+00:00

The answer is .. it better bloody well should be. Never mind him asking the question.. that's irrelevant.

2013-08-21T21:54:35+00:00

No. It is not. Never do it for your own protection.

GenderEqualityKing · 2013-08-22T02:09:01+00:00

What vile garbage. This is what happens when you have a news organization that has the privilege (yes, I said it) of not having to worry about making a profit.

notimeforname · 2013-08-21T08:23:03+00:00

What was exactly the twit? I couldn't find it for some reason. I mean I don't think you should have sex with someone who is drunk. But if you are drunk as well then you can't be blamed. So it really depends on what he said. And even if he said something that you don't agree he doesn't deserve the twitter rage.

LAMFF · 2013-08-21T10:03:19+00:00

Under "attack" from Salon.com? Come on that's like saying Iran is pissed about Baywatch.

insanemetal187 · 2013-08-21T10:31:15+00:00

I can't believe I'm on Dr. Phil's side on anything. Fuck.

First, he should be allowed to say whatever he wants. If there's even a chance of him being fired over this everyone should be ashamed.

Secondly, wtf is the big deal? He didn't say "is it ok to fuck a girl while she's on propofol." He asked an obvious leading question. He KNOWS the answer is no but he asked it anyways to try and get a buzz going.

This is beyond dumb. Usually these special interest groups go after things they don't enjoy though. Kind of surprised to see them attack one of their own.

DangerDick26 · 2013-08-21T11:29:10+00:00

I used to like dr Phil but he has been really making me mad lately. I just noticed how he takes the woman's side ALL the time no matter what. He belittles men that say they were abused and tells them they are the abuser.

PowerWisdomCourage · 2013-08-21T12:16:26+00:00

Oh how quickly they turn on one of their own as long as he has a penis.

jokes_on_you90 · 2013-08-21T13:55:29+00:00

How is his question any different than asking "Who likes going to the movies on a Friday night?" He wanted the public opinion on the matter. I don't see anything in that tweet that condones the answer of yes.

bocalou · 2013-08-21T15:41:49+00:00

Fair to assume a women would not drink alone? How drunk? Legally drunk as one drink past driving drunk? That's not very drunk so my answer is she knows what she's doing.

If both are very drunk, as several drinks past the legal driving limit, my answer most guys couldn't get wood in that condition.

Dr. Phil, from many angles, this was an extremely un-doctor like question.

JudDredd · 2013-08-22T07:10:43+00:00

Is it actually legally defined anywhere as rape if a woman is drunk?

Invalid_Target · 2013-08-21T08:31:38+00:00

Good, that turn-coat piece of shit, I hope they eat him alive.

edit: you guys understand that DP said masturbating is as bad as cheating, right?

you understand that his pussylips are as big as mothras wings, right?

ThePigman · 2013-08-21T05:54:40+00:00

Ha, serves the gynocentric pinhead right!

IHaveALargePenis · 2013-08-21T03:19:26+00:00

Only if you wear a rubber. I hear those rape kits can be a pain in the ass these days. But honestly, he seemed to be running a poll or just trying to get responses/ideas from his fanbase. If that's misogyny then we're truly doomed. Hey feminists, should we try to fix <insert feminist problem>? Oh, I hate women for asking that question? Really?

2013-08-21T14:46:44+00:00

In what world do these women live where they don't realize nearly EVERY person in the world loves drunk sex? Why do they even have a voice? Are they speaking out of regret or anger at never having been hit on or something?

BrutalTruth101 · 2013-08-22T22:01:30+00:00

To feminist this is equivalent to asking is OK to rape a woman. For my generation getting drunk or at least buzzed and having sex was part of the mating ritual. Many of these easily offended, hyper sensitive snots would not be here if it were not for a bottle of booze.

See Jimmy Buffet's "Why don't we get drunk and screw?"

tony_danzig · 2013-08-21T12:34:55+00:00

how the hell would 70 % of redditors could possibly have sex if not with a drunk woman?

Comments