Do people not date based on their romantic feelings?

NothingOrAllLife · 2024-02-26T18:26:10+00:00

The issue with the dating view in this sub is that it’s based almost exclusively on the early dating phase: because a lot of the men here have never been in a relationship at all that lasted more than a few dates.

At first, you’re looking for physical and social compatibility. Then as the relationship deepens, you get romantic compatibility, but that’s not guaranteed to show up after three dates.

This is where the frustration around “spark” comes in. The guys that can get through the first date gate can’t get through to the romantic feelings. People date based on romantic feelings, but those happen weeks or months down the road.

People that think their partner would leave them for someone “better” don’t understand the romantic and emotional connection you can form by getting to know a person. Sure you could find someone that’s technically richer or smarter - but that person won’t have the individual characteristics that make you emotionally attached to them. That’s why you can’t just go get another person if you really like someone: another person won’t be them.

Toxic_LigmaMale · 2024-02-26T20:34:14+00:00

That only really matters once your foot is in the door. 90% of the complaints come from even getting the first date.

Demasii · 2024-02-26T18:32:38+00:00

If one is able to meet people organically (work, school, etc) than yes typically following just the feels works out.

But OLD has taken over a significant portion of the marketplace. It's forcing people to take a look at their superficial standards and setting filter for those that met them.

odd_cloud · 2024-02-26T19:01:29+00:00

Some people are unable to date based on their romantic feelings. So, they go online to figure out some things about themselves and the opposite sex to become able to date based on their feelings.

DarayRaven · 2024-02-26T18:50:00+00:00

Most of the debates and discussions on this subreddit revolve around analysing dating like it’s a marketplace and making sense of the decisions people make and why they make them

I mean that's exactly what this sub is, to discuss/debate intersexual dynamics between the pills

If you want something different, there's many other dating subs and the reason why it's a marketplace(SMV) is to analyze how human interactions takes place through economics

MistyMaisel · 2024-02-26T20:42:24+00:00

This is a multi-pronged thing

Romantic feelings are kind of a nebulous concept difficult to categorize, break down, or tell people how to "make them happen". A lot of this sub is about debating dating/relationship advice given and if you just say "well what you need to do is find someone who has romantic feelings for you", you kind of leave them out to die in the wasteland because of how ishy squishy and feely weely that is.

This leads to:

When we get in the trenches of things like looks, personality, skills, finances, ambitions, compatibilities, lifestyles, aesthetics, we're essentially trying to sketch out the elephant of what "romantic feelings" or "romance" or "romantic relationships" seems to be about. Yes, it comes off as very inhuman and draconian to anyone who has ever been in love or had a romantic relationship, but it's an attempt to create an image of all the many many many factors that seem to play a roll in building and sustaining these particular kinds of relationships. And yes, all of this does come down to personal preferences and feelings, but, humans aren't that terribly unique (they are still extremely unique and nuanced for the record), but you can paint broadly and say, "most people want someone who is attractive, fun to be around, competent, etc." What that looks like to each person has some variances and quirks, but, not so much as to make it impossible to classify and explain.

This leads to a final prong

It isn't that people are being shallow necessarily to overlook how they feel in a person's company so much so as to adhere to arbitrary standards. It's more like some people will ignore this for survival reasons. Some people are so young that they have to start somewhere when dating, and that usually begins with whatever arbitrary standards their particular section of the world has given them. A lot of people here forget dating is a process, and that a lot of the process is figuring out which parts of those arbitrary standards do apply and which ones don't apply and how much they apply or don't apply.

And as a final comment, also, yes, ultimately, this place is basically people who have seen and hugged an elephant before trying to describe it to people who have only ever theorized about elephants. That's the fun for all involved.

Muskelmaus · 2024-02-26T21:23:19+00:00

Is dating really transactional enough to be considered a marketplace?

Yes.

Case closed. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

Safinated · 2024-02-26T18:58:49+00:00

People here, mostly men, date who they can, not who they want

Icy-Sprinkles-638 · 2024-02-26T18:43:36+00:00

Most people do date based on romantic feelings, and that's a huge part of why today's relationship landscape is such a fucking disaster area. For most of history romance was just a part - and often not even a predominant part - of relationships. People used to understand that a relationship was a partnership and so one needed to consider more than just tingles and sparks.

Now this space is overly analytical, but that's also kind of the point. We're taking a step back and doing analysis on what's wrong and how we got here and what needs to change.

Orangematcha · 2024-02-26T19:34:04+00:00

People online don’t really get that far. Rarely can you get personality from an app or anything like that. Usually you base it off looks. Which is why everyone is so obsessed with looks and not romance or other aspects of a relationship. It’s foreign to people and probably a big reason why less people are dating or getting laid.

CraftyCooler · 2024-02-26T20:29:15+00:00

What you present is the typical source of confusion between male and female understanding of dating. For men the first 'hurdle' is the hardest one - that is passing initial screening regarding looks, status and typical superficial criteria. This is where 99% of guys usually end their dating experience. They do not make it to the place where women start 'dating'. For women this screening does not exist - since they are in position of making choice, so once they will reject these 100 guys, they start getting to know their dates better. If some guys are rarely given a chance to present themselves - they can overlook some obvious red flags regarding personality mismatch, simply because they lack experience or they know that another chance may happen in half year.

hearyoume14 · 2024-02-27T00:49:49+00:00

There are a few things going on.

1: Some are looking for a casual NSA type things while others are looking for casual dating or a LTR.

2:There is an over representation of the analytical type here. Formulas and one size fits all works better for them.

3: Age is a big factor as is sex. I think I remember seeing that good chunk of us women here are in some sort of relationship while the men are the opposite.With the ages skewing younger the focus is often less on a LTR.

I’m hitting my mid-30s and don’t use much social media. I only use Facebook, Youtube and Reddit. From my outsider’s perspective social media is a big problem.

There is also that pesky human nature. I’ll argue that relationships are transactional but are often mutually so.

obviousredflag · 2024-02-27T13:41:03+00:00

Key principles of the marketplace theory of human mating include:

Mate Value: Individuals are seen as having a certain "mate value" based on a combination of physical attractiveness, social status, intelligence, and other traits. Just as products have different values in a marketplace, individuals are evaluated based on their perceived desirability as mates.
Mate Preferences: Similar to consumers expressing preferences for specific products, individuals are thought to have specific preferences in their mates. These preferences may be influenced by evolutionary factors, cultural norms, and personal experiences.
Competition: The theory suggests that individuals compete for mates, and this competition can manifest in various forms, such as displays of attractiveness, achievements, or resources. Individuals may engage in behaviors to enhance their perceived mate value and stand out in the mating "market."
Exchange and Bargaining: Like economic transactions, mating is conceptualized as an exchange where individuals bring different qualities to the relationship. Individuals may seek partners who complement their own qualities or provide resources they value.
Short-Term vs. Long-Term Strategies: The marketplace theory recognizes that individuals may adopt different mating strategies depending on their goals. Some may pursue short-term relationships for immediate benefits, while others may seek long-term partnerships for stability and shared resources.

The mate value is differently perceived by differnet people. This includes the personal preferences. You don'T have a fixed mate value for everyone. If you like surfing and van life, your mate value increases dramatically for similar lifestyle people, and reduces dramatically for everyone who is the opposite of that.

wtknight · 2024-02-26T18:18:54+00:00

Anything where there is both supply and demand is going to involve a marketplace.

captainhowdy82 · 2024-02-26T20:17:56+00:00

OP, I feel you. Some of the people here approach dating like robots. Like a woman is a slot machine and if you know the right code, jackpot! You get sex! Most people with normal socialization and empathy do not look at it that way. Just from observing the opinions and thought processes of guys on this forum, I’d have to guess there’s a disproportionate number of red pill men with personality disorders and/or autism. They need therapy, not an online echo chamber.

Silver_Past2313 · 2024-02-26T19:13:16+00:00

I'm not able to date based on my feelings, I'm able to date based on who accepts me, which is fat women.

HappyVer · 2024-02-26T18:30:03+00:00

It's both. Why do you think it's one or the other?

It is a market. In this marketplace, most participants make decisions based on their own personal romantic feelings.

If a lot of attractive people like a specific person (for whatever reason, including personal romantic feelings), that person's value in the market is likely to be higher. That person is very desirable.

If nobody likes that specific person, that person's value in the market is low. That person is not desirable.

You would have a harder time getting a relationship with the person who is very desirable since that person has many other options, and you may not be that person's best option.

Aafan_Barbarro · 2024-02-26T18:20:48+00:00

How people feel about a person's company is influenced by arbitrary standards.

Konoha_Shinobee · 2024-02-26T18:32:26+00:00

If you have eyes you'll notice that hot people are always going on about how in love they are with other hot people. The desirability of the other person compared to their peers is a big part of what makes up "romantic feelings". Don't take for granted the fact that you bother to give another person the time of day at all, you make that choice before you know anything about them.

Barely-moral · 2024-02-26T18:53:13+00:00

I rather date based on the life I want to have and not based on feelings.

Feelings come and go. They are fickle.

Why build your home on top of sand?

Relative_Bee8356 · 2024-02-26T20:02:55+00:00

Most of the guys here have never had a relationship and a lot of them have never even been on a date. Everything they know about the process comes from red pill influencers. That's why so many of them seem to think that dating is essentially a D&D game where everyone has stats and everyone agrees on what those stats mean.

Also, a lot of the men here absolutely despise women and can't really imagine that they might genuinely like a woman. They're so obsessed with weirdo gender wars stuff that I think they struggle with the idea that any heterosexual couple might genuinely like each other. So they assume it's just a game of stats, rather than anything to do with emotional connection.

StopTheIncels · 2024-02-26T21:29:04+00:00

I forgot the actual quote but it went something along the lines of this:

"A romantic relationship is not transactional; a sexual relationship is. When most people reference a romantic relationship, it is usually an euphemism for a sexual relationship".

A romantic relationship is almost always transactional in the early stages.

TRTGymBro · 2024-02-26T19:06:41+00:00

You forget you are dealing with a largely neurodivergent crowd here. Guys who do great in their computer science jobs but who can't put two words together in a social situation.

Zabadoodude · 2024-02-26T18:53:19+00:00

Most people do date based on romantic feelings, but dating is still like a marketplace, because people tend to be attracted to similar things. A man that's handsome, tall, charismatic and rich will have many women that have romantic feelings for him, so he can pick which one he likes the best. A man that doesn't have these things will have to develop some feelings for the one girl that might like him or be alone.

Objective_Ad_6265 · 2024-02-26T19:12:11+00:00

Exactly they see just numbers and totaly ignore romantic feelings and individual people preferences. I just FEEL it, I don't measure who is the best, I don't care for numbers and statistic, I just FEEL.

Emergency-Escape1708 · 2024-02-26T19:43:31+00:00

Most people and that's over half the population if not more are NOT ABLE to date based on their romantic feelings because the reality is not matching up to their feelings. That is why dating and relationships are a disaster in today's era and you hear about so many single women and men etc etc.

Geselshaft · 2024-02-26T20:14:09+00:00

Nintendo the nonsense in the mall matters if you can’t pass the looks/whatever threshold to even get in the door.

Most discussions here aren’t about relationships, but even getting to date one in the first place.

Once you even get a chance at a date, then all that bullcrap comes up, but since many people don’t even get to the beginning of a date before rejection, all that other BS doesn’t matter.

LowFabulous6863 · 2024-03-01T18:04:49+00:00

The issue with this sub is it’s mostly delusional incels with no real world experience

Ok-Dust-4156 · 2024-02-26T18:27:31+00:00

Seeing it as a market is dumb because it isn't a market and so called "SMV" isn't a thing. But romantic feelings need time to grow, so you can date for something else. Out of boredom or just for sex as example.

KayRay1994 · 2024-02-26T18:34:58+00:00

I think it depends on the individuals involved. Ideally, dating is based on romantic feelings - but loads of people do see it as transactional, especially given that the whole “marketplace” idea (which i absolutely hate) for the record actively reenforces the idea of using others as a commodity - ie. dating isn’t based off romantic feelings, excitement or fascination even at times, it becomes a part of one’s image, a way of “displaying value” whether it be to your friends, the opposite sex, social media, your professional life, etc - there are also loads of people who date for their own sense of validation to draw in some kind of self worth.

Ideally, dating should be based on budding feelings, or even just interest - but people do it for tons of other reasons, ranging from insecurity with one’s self to unresolved issues to superficial reasons

izoldetales · 2024-02-26T19:34:18+00:00

I mean you can ask women this questions since they are the " romantic " ones, and they pick men based on emotions not like men who are the " shallow " gender !! . Asking this question is basically asking " I know that women being the romantic gender is a lie but I don't want to blame women cause I'm a woman " .

Men already accepted being the shallow ones , so it's up to women to give people a reason to put them above men morally .

Flightlessbirbz · 2024-02-26T23:29:47+00:00

I’ve always just ended up dating whoever was interested in me and I clicked with on both a romantic and friendship level. Of course there has to be a baseline of attraction and no dealbreakers, but never was the most attractive or successful guys I ended up falling for. More about subjective compatibility and who I enjoyed talking with most. We don’t have to have all the same hobbies or anything, but good conversation is so important since you’re going to spend more time talking with the person than anything else. Doesn’t matter how good looking or how much money someone has if you don’t enjoy their company.

So yeah, while I understand the more transactional stuff, that’s never really been my experience and it is a little weird to me.

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WilliamWyattD · 2024-02-26T18:49:45+00:00

It's only meant to be modeled as a marketplace at large scale. And it's an imperfect modeling. You shouldn't be running around looking at your personal dating life primarily through an economic lens.

EricSec · 2024-02-26T18:58:14+00:00

It is good to view valuable subjects through several different lenses, to understand them, so we can be more successful in them.

For example, online dating didn't work for me. Barely anyone showed interest in me by messaging me back, liking my photos, or by initiating a conversation with me. This is largely due to the "Markets" being unequal between men and women on dating sites.

So, I analyzed that information, and concluded that I should stop online dating, and just focus on meeting girls in real life. I expanded my social circle, and eventually met my wife.

BoomTheBear86 · 2024-02-26T19:01:04+00:00

People select dates based on criteria akin to market but maintain dating into relationships based on romantic feelings.

If this was not true you would see almost every person “upgrading” their partner constantly but you don’t. It would be implausible to suggest that all the people who appear to stick with a partner just happened to find the one person they “match” with in market value precisely (and nobody else in their social world is a better fit) or that throngs of people in relationships are conscious that they are “selling short” and unhappy but stick with it for other reasons.

At some point we just have to acknowledge that yes, romance plays a role in why people stick around. Just look at the relationship advice sub. Examples abound of people sticking with partners clearly on an objective level bad for them (both men and women) and below their “value”, why? “But I love them”. Even to the extent of having married men discover their wife is unfaithful and he is debating whether he really wants to leave her or not and it’s not because of fear of asset loss, it’s because “she’s my person” etc.

Love is a hell of a drug. But it takes time to appear so at the screening stage yeah it’s non present, and what’s the alternative? Give everyone a chance on the off chance you love them in time? I think not. Something has to serve as an initial screening process for fundemental differences and the marketplace approach is it.

The issue is people think because it was there at the start it continues to dominate discourse throughout a relationship and this is incorrect.

AcephalicDude · 2024-02-26T19:09:06+00:00

"Romantic feelings" means different things to different people, but I would guess that for most people it's something you build up over time. This makes it hard to date based on those feelings. You don't start with the feelings, you see the potential for them and date to try to see if they can be built up into a proper romance.

That said, I do think people tend to go about spotting the potential for romance based on superficial preferences. It probably helps to be more focused on personality and values, than looks or income.

Independent-Mail-227 · 2024-02-26T19:12:54+00:00

but does a lot of it not boil down to personal preference and feelings?

Well women prefer a lot of diverse bodies... except not. They also like multiples types of personalities... except not. There's no such thing as personal preference don't exist. Feelings also are an useless metric because what cause those feelings to happens in first place are tied to body type and a spefic type of personality.

Is dating really transactional enough to be considered a marketplace?

Yes.

but are people really shallow enough to overlook how they feel about a person’s company to make decisions based on some arbitrary standards?

You're ignoring the fact that those arbitrary standards ARE what make women feels about a person company.

bottleblank · 2024-02-26T19:55:09+00:00

I'm all about personal feelings, that's the entire reason I want a relationship. I don't want to think about these things as transactional.

But as a perpetually single autistic man with a history of being abused and no clear path to resolving the lack of personal and intimate relationships, I can't help but be very aware that people want what they want and don't what they don't. So, if I expect to change that situation, I have to be aware of what those things are.

Which is why the current sociopolitical environment is problematic for men like me. Because we're trying to figure out what it is we're supposed to be in a world of anti-male sentiment and contradicting expectations to be manly but feminist, confident and agentic but hyper-aware and avoidant of causing any and every minor potential upset that a woman might feel from my clumsy and awkward presence.

If we pay no attention then we risk offending, scaring, or pissing off women. If we pay full attention then we'd never be around women ever, just in case we're ever perceived as being misogynistic or committing crimes of harassment, simply for being nervous and unrefined.

Nobody wants their experiences of trying to find romance to be like that. Constantly having to be aware of risks, constantly trying to be somebody else, constantly trying to walk on eggshells. That's why some men turn to statistics; to figure out what the hell is wrong so they can fix it/try to be more targeted in what to work on and/or to prove to others that such a situation exists and why, on a social level, they're having issues. Because they can't afford to be emotional. They need more opportunity before they can get to that point.

warramite · 2024-02-26T20:14:27+00:00

Romantic feelings can be artificially induced and they are, this is why male celebrities never lack dating options

Regardless of what type of person you are as long as you have the right assets, your smv is always high therefore your stock is always in demand on the market.

PM_ME_YOUR_DONGERZ · 2024-02-26T20:34:21+00:00

Yes, dating is the closest thing the world will ever get to a true free market. In a free market the only value of anything is what someone is willing to give up to have it.

sharedordaz · 2024-02-26T21:26:30+00:00

Similar to a market but is not. The difference, is that on a market, the goal is to sell tha biggest amount of your profuct to the public. On the romantic field, your goal is to "sell yourself" just to the person you want.

The problem, is that most PUA and internet gurus, focus on the purpose of having sucess with many women, rather than one. Those are the guys who say "i kissed 20 woman at one night" or stuff like that. If you want to achieve this, yes is a market and you are a product, and to sell yourself you must do what the mayority of people wants, sacrificing on most of times what you like or are, since you become a people pleaser.

On difference, if you look a more meaningful relationships, you should look for people like you, because our spectations are very influenced on what we like.

Horned-Beast · 2024-02-26T21:31:43+00:00

NO, why? Because you can love someone to your core and not be a good match as a couple.

Better to focus on someone that is compatible and you can create a strong bond with where you both compliment each other.

Just focusing on the "feel good" emotions has put us into the toxic dating trend we as a society have become stuck in.

lolthankstinder · 2024-02-26T22:20:55+00:00

If someone doesn’t bring you any value, why do you spend any time/energy on them? Every interpersonal relationship is transactional in some way. Even if you scoff at this and say “only assholes treat all interpersonal relationships as transactional”, well… guess what? You’re an asshole too! Your sense of morality and righteousness is part of the transaction for you.

Dating and love is no exception. You are assessing the value you think someone would bring you as a potential partner against your own self-assessed value, and against being alone. They also have a “price” aka their own self-assessed value that might exceed their perception of your value.

Supply, demand, elasticity, marketing, it’s all very applicable to dating. While the feelings you have for a person are vastly different and more complex than the feelings of a nice warm $3.97 mocha latte, they are still part of your decision in whether or not to “buy” and can be analyzed through the framework of economics. The same principles that can increase sales of your lattes can also be applied to dating. Figure out a way to make people feel better about buying and they buy. Or… there are tons of other economic issues like supply and demand. If you want to sell your normal/average coffee for $3.97 but Tinder for coffee gets invented, lol good luck.

ConsciousFood201 · 2024-02-26T23:54:12+00:00

I think the idea is that the marketplace underpins the emotional part. When you see someone who is a good match for you (not too high of value but not too low of value), you start to “have feelings” or talk yourself into that person.

In a healthy world, if I see a woman who is a straight ten out of ten, I don’t get a crush on her because I know she’s out of my league. I save myself the heartbreak. Now, if she happens to say something to me a certain way… I could get the wrong idea… the feelings get rolling.

For the most part, I think this system of our minds thinking transactionally in our unconscious works really well. This subreddit is an example of a bunch of low value guys that have too high of standards (their brains think they deserve 8 out of 10’s despite being 3’s themselves) coming together to make it women’s fault that they never get laid.

SecondEldenLord · 2024-02-27T00:45:21+00:00

Nowadays most people date out of need or boredom or horniness, but never out of actual love.

Natural-Tear-2899 · 2024-02-27T05:59:24+00:00

People are dating based off body counts, looks, & money. Not feelings anymore

Purple_Kangaroo8549 · 2024-02-27T06:51:42+00:00

How you feel about a person's company is mostly defined by how you fit into the prevailing culture and play to what ever uninhibited desires are ruling them. Anyway feelings are frankly too unstable to maintain a long-term relationship, there needs to be something beyond that the holds things together.

Freevoulous · 2024-02-27T10:25:31+00:00

it can be both. at the incredible population numbers we talk about, individual preferences, which would be unpredictable on their own, morph into sort of Brownian Motion of the dating world.

Consider also, that for a large percent of the population (Id say bottom 30% of men, and bottom 5% of women) romantic feelings and preferences do not matter as much, as they do not have any options to chose from. Their options are 1-absolutely nothing, or 2- whatever partner wants you, even in the slightest way.

Beggars can't be choosers, and only the preferences of choosers matter.

xxTheMagicBulleT · 2024-02-27T10:29:13+00:00

People do date on feelings. But for most people are not willing to endlessly give and never expect something in return.

So value is always a thing people look at in almost any part of life. And when set value is not there. Jumping true all the hoops is not worth it.

People often do a effort and value calculation in there head. And if it does not see the worth in it. People dont do it.

Thats not weird. Even if you go by feelings by love. Those will fade in time. And duties and getting and giving value. To the relationship and haveing a type of duty to take care for and of and serve your partner but your partner also has a duty to serve your needs. Thats whats necessary for a relationship to last.

And after the butterflies. Your duty to serve and keep putting value in to the relationship. And the partner also keep giveing you value.

Is a necessary. No one wants a useless partner that just take take take. And act like there for ever on vacation and your a slave for there needs.

So value is always gonna be a big part of why people stay past the short term and the skin deep lust the might have for you

YetAnotherCommenter · 2024-02-27T11:45:47+00:00

Most of the debates and discussions on this subreddit revolve around analysing dating like it’s a marketplace and making sense of the decisions people make and why they make them, but does a lot of it not boil down to personal preference and feelings?

Marketplaces boil down to personal preference and feelings expressed through interactions. Economic value is subjective.

Is dating really transactional enough to be considered a marketplace?

Yes. All interactions between people can be modelled economically - you're spending time with a person instead of doing something else, for example.

are people really shallow enough to overlook how they feel about a person’s company to make decisions based on some arbitrary standards?

Yes. And this is true even if they're looking for (whatever you'd consider) "inner beauty." They still want to be with a person who meets a certain set of standards (arbitrary or otherwise).

Pathosgrim · 2024-02-27T12:36:14+00:00

Women are the sellers, and men are the buyers. It can't get any simpler than that.

FateMeetsLuck · 2024-02-27T16:29:49+00:00

I think most people in and outside this sub may be victims of some sort of narcissistic abuse, often by adults in their formative years, and this has completely warped their ability to comprehend others as persons rather than property. A lot of this abuse is reinforced by organized religion and the cult of Western individualism, greed, and patriarchy.

Gold_Supermarket1956 · 2024-02-27T18:48:42+00:00

People do the problem is women have so many options they can get rid of you for the smallest thing... Most men just have the illusion of choice.... Also the first phase of dating for most women is a series of tests and the final exam is sex... Women tend to go after taken men etc because he's already been vetted both for safety and sexually... People are so scared of dead bedrooms now days

Brazil_doesnt_exist · 2024-02-27T19:30:26+00:00

No they don't.

Romantic falling in love and finding the one is just a privilege for a few lucky ones.

The rest of us are forced to navigate this market and settle for the least bad options.

Title	Do people not date based on their romantic feelings?
Author	arsynlol
Upvotes	67
Comments	224
Date	February 26, 2024 6:17 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1b0ogmq/do_people_not_date_based_on_their_romantic/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/do-people-not-date-based-on-their-romantic.1246504 https://theredarchive.com/post/1246504

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