Explain to monke

[–]asdf333aza 39 points40 points41 points 4 years ago (47 children) | Copy Link

[–]Real_VentsPurple Pill Man 17 points18 points19 points 4 years ago (34 children) | Copy Link

[–]asdf333aza 35 points36 points37 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lonely_23_1997 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NotinRedpillBubble1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]medlabunicorn1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]pfmarshallx 16 points17 points18 points 4 years ago (27 children) | Copy Link

[–]Real_VentsPurple Pill Man 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NotinRedpillBubble 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

[–]pfmarshallx 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

hahahahaha? How childish. Typical mindset that makes us straight eligible modern men of today give up on our mating pool in the West. There you go (1) assuming I don’t and won’t and don’t advocate that (misandrist minded simpletons always assume that), when in fact that is so much of a default belief that it couldn’t advocate it more without turning into an after school PSA special (2) Condoms are all we have in the way of reversible protection, and they are the least reliable and most able to slip rip break and most likely to be damaged, sabotage-able, etc. In fact condoms are primarily prophylaxis against STI/STD and secondarily/a back up method for disease a contraceptive. You see the refusal to take full or even majority of accountability for anything. And whenever they say it is both sides faults, you know it means it is completely hers but she couldn’t bear to be solely responsible, since accountability is like Kryptonite. And get this through your head, the opposite sex has 100% control of who gets conceived and born in the West, as a whole. They are supposed to have the burden of 100% credit AND BLAME for it too. But like I said about accountability and Kryptonite. We’ve known this since the venerable Tom Leykis in the early 2000s, and fortunately successors like Kevin Samuels are not letting us be fool anymore by this dodge of accountability

[–]NotinRedpillBubble1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You can’t be serious can you? A condom isn’t as safe as the pill, no shit. But it’s basically the male equivalent aka something men have control over. You don’t have to explain That a condom is 97% safe and the pill 99,99%. Don’t tip toe around such things. „I mean both things are important“. Which they are. You got really REALLY mad about my comment. Men have the authority over using a condom, that is factual, it’s not man-hating.

If you want to make a point about me being a man-Hater or what not (lol), maybe you should not point to Kevin Leykis, a dude that has 5 divorces and is known to be abusive.

Talk about double standards and point to Kevin Samuels, also a twice divorced man, who thinks cheating isn’t a big deal when men do it. I quote „all men cheat but women have to be loyal“. Talk about double standards and point to a man with outdated views no sane person that isn’t completely brain dead can take seriously „women need to be submissive“. Dude, you sure you are the logical one and the one with no double standards?

Kevin Leykis also is known to blame women for being cheated on while non stop whining about his girlfriend cheating on him. Double standards are your friends friend.

I already wrote that I rightly believe that men have authority over their actions. That means putting on a condom to reduce the pregnancy risk. There is NOTHING wrong about that statement. It doesn’t matter whether he is forced to parenthood or not, even if he wasn’t, he should avoid getting himself into a situation where he has to decide about caring for a child or not. The same way a woman has to do anything possible to avoid being in the situation. Since you refer to men who also love fucking around outside of a relationship, I guess, that would be just a reasonable thing for them to do, put on a condom.

And I already wrote, angry boi, that I do think ultimately women have more responsibility Bc they ultimately have the right to abortion. Did I wrote that men should be forced to be a parent? No.

You are right, men don’t have authority over what pill a woman takes. Again, that’s NOT what I was referring to.

I couldn’t care less about men who are braindead giving up dating Bc those men don’t realize their own entitlement and double standard, it’s better for them to stay single.

Btw: It’s nice that you advocate men need to use a condom and that they have authority over their choices, so next time, just write this, and we are done. You make assumptions about me, but how dare I make „assumptions“ about you.

[–]pfmarshallx3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]NotinRedpillBubble1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]pfmarshallx1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]pfmarshallx2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

First of all, you’re embarrassing yourself from the start when you can’t get the most basic of facts the actual correct names of TOM Leykis and Kevin Samuels. Second of all, of course you wish to attack both Tom Leykis and Kevin Samuels. Edit: all while gleefully overlooking and turning a blind eye to the hypocrisy and abuses of your side’s personalities that actually resulted in real consequences (with respect to changes in laws and societal biases, against men and unconscionably boys) You can’t have them break us men break out of the fog of the gynocentric narrative, can we? Of course not. And no, you did not write this to me in response to my comment. All you wrote to me were perfect examples of haughty arrogance, probably honed in on so many years of talking down to emasculated men.

[–]NotinRedpillBubble1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]pfmarshallx2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]pfmarshallx1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Firstly Don’t try to PM to help you get away with avoiding public scrutiny when talking about Tom Leykis’ history getting in trouble to try to bolster your so called argument, because I’m sure on some level you know that if you had the onions to post it in public, you may realize that there are countless of example of that men who realize Tom’s value of the VALIDITY of HIS TAUGHT WISDOM and MALE ADVOCACY, NOT as a Moral ROLE MODEL to follow (which Tom NEVER was or claimed to be) just someone who MADE the mistakes we shouldn’t make both in life and trusting the opposite sex BUT TOLD the TRUTH about the unjust imbalance against men, simply by letting women call in to tell on themselves .
And since women have literally gone decades and generations maligning men just like you accuse Tom of maligning women out of bitterness and dominating, but in the entire mainstream narrative at that, the fact that you are so determined to post here and PM me, to attack both of them just further proves your female privilege, that you’d have no standards at all if you didn’t have double standards. And don’t patronize me by dishonestly wishing me a good or nice day. It’s more insulting to, all but most of all to yourself, for you to do that

[–]pfmarshallx1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]pfmarshallx 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]NotinRedpillBubble1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

If you know she isn’t in the pill and don’t use a condom, you are a ducking idiot. The same goes for the woman, she is a fucking idiot too. Just be responsible. That’s what I mean you have AUTHORITY over your own choice, doesn’t matter your gender. I mean you agree with this, right?

Sure I think men shouldn’t be forced to be a parent, just as women shouldn’t be forced to carry the child and have a right to abortion. That’s why I think communication is key, she informs him about the pregnancy and he inform her early enough whether he wants to take care or not. Sounds fair right??

But these are extreme situation and both genders should do their best to avoid this, right? . I’m not a hypocrite. Some women are.

But hey tons of men are the biggest hypocrites when it comes to other things. Not all men, of course.

[–]pfmarshallx1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]NotinRedpillBubble1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]pfmarshallx2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]NotinRedpillBubble0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]pfmarshallx1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]vegville1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]pfmarshallx2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ManliusMannusMaximus1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Jimithyashford1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Bruhmomentusmaximus01 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]pfmarshallx1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Jimithyashford0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]pfmarshallx1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Jimithyashford1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]pfmarshallx1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Jimithyashford1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]pfmarshallx1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Jimithyashford1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]offbrandbarbie1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]GreaterThanOrEqual2U1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]buntyisbestPurple Pill Man 117 points118 points119 points 4 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

[–]asdf333aza 36 points37 points38 points 4 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[–]NotinRedpillBubble1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]asdf333aza5 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

yet would tell the women they slept with to abort it or abandon the baby. This doesn’t make sense.

When a women goes on a date with a man, she is not consenting to sex with him.

When a man has sex with a a woman, he is not consenting to parenthood with her.

Lots of guys get dragged into parenthood against their will. It's like dragging a girl to the bedroom against her will. She didn't consent to sex by simply knowing or dating the guy. And he didn't consent to parenthood by sleeping with her. But society has no issue forcing a man to do things, but if we force a female to do something and that's a big debate.

And if he "agrees" to parenthood then she gets legal documentation of that through a signed birth certificate. Which makes the guy legally liable for child support.

If you are against abortion, you should also be against abandoning the baby.

If you a pro abortion then you should be pro abandoning the baby financially.

[–]NotinRedpillBubble1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]asdf333aza4 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I don’t compare a violent crime like rape or murder with men being forced into parenthood nor do I think these are equally as bad, sorry no.

That is your opinion. Many guys consider having their livelihoods taken from them and being forced to work for the benefit of someone else against their will as a form of slavery. it becomes a "pay me money or go to jail situation". You have to pay money to some one you hate or dislike or go to jail. And this isn't a one time thing, this last for 18 years. 18 years of indentured servitude to someone you likely want nothing to do with. YOU and your anecdotal narratives may not consider it to be that bad, but many dudes do. Many men forced into this Financial rape or slavery are so upset and hurt by the situation that they end up finding the TRP. Our community is partly made by the damage caused by being forced into parenthood and being forced to work for and pay money to someone they may very well hate. Paying for house for a women you hate just so she could fuck her next boyfriend in it. Financial cuckholdry. And it's one of the most damaging things you can do to a man the same way rape is one of the most damaging things you can do to a women. It is essentially modern day slavery for men. Being forced to work for the benefit of someone else who feels entitled to lay claim your body and force you to work for their livelihood or go to jail where you endure another form of modern day slavery. Freedom is one of the most important things for men, and child support, alimony and being forced into parenthood are ways to strip or limit that freedom.

[–]NotinRedpillBubble1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You pay for the CHILD, how can you hate or dislike a freaking child you made? Hating on the mom is one thing, but child? Lmao. Again, this sucks if you didn’t want it, it really sucks a lot, I can understand this. But rape and murder are worse IMO. Sure you can have your own opinion, everyone can feel about those things how they want.

I know young dudes who have unwanted kids and a horrible ex partner that destroys their lives. I know women who were cheated on by their boyfriends or even abused and now have to fucking live as a single parent, all those cases suck and I’m glad I’m not in that situation.

The red pill is pathetic garbage. Just like extreme feminism. It’s full of narcissistic males who blame women, hold women to much higher stands, are proud to manipulate women into sex, lie to women, think cheating is worse when women do it… the lost goes on. Just like feminism mostly blames men, they mostly blame women.

They blame women for choosing „bad men“ and ending up alone after abusing or cheating. But they don’t blame men for choosing bad women, or not to the same extent. That’s just one example why that „community“ is garbage. I’ve seen it, it’s so funny, it’s so toxic. And all that garbage about Hypergamy when this bullshit is already disproven.

Financial cuckoldry is the most harmful thing you can do to men? It sucks for both genders equally, it’s just that I guess men are more often the victims. Same with rape, it’s sucks equally for both genders, but women are more often the victim. Rapists get very short sentences, in my country at least, it’s laughable. They get 6 months on probation or two years prison at worst, raping a child gets you around 5 years (at worst). The legal system sucks, not just for men.

[–]asdf333aza3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You pay for the CHILD, how can you hate or dislike a freaking child you made? Hating on the mom is one thing, but child? Lmao. Again, this sucks if you didn’t want it, it really sucks a lot, I can understand this. But rape and murder are worse IMO. Sure you can have your own opinion, everyone can feel about those things how they want.

You are "FORCED" to pay for the child you did not want! Fixed it. And you think sexual rape is worse, but this is Financial rape. Forcing a man to pay for something they never wanted. Garnishing his wages. Sending him to jail if he refuses to comply with his overseers.

I'm from America! Taxation without representation. Having your money taken from you and having decisions made for you with NO SAY IN THE MATTER. That's situation brings up such disgust and resentment within men that our nation was started because of it. We went to war to establish our own independence because we hated the idea of having our hard earned money taken from us without us having any say in the decision. That's is akin to what we having going on with men being forced into parenthood they did not consent to.

The red pill is pathetic garbage. Just like extreme feminism. It’s full of narcissistic males who blame women, hold women to much higher stands, are proud to manipulate women into sex, lie to women, think cheating is worse when women do it… the lost goes on. Just like feminism mostly blames men, they mostly blame women.

And yet, female behavior continues to drive men toward it. The Red Pill is not shrinking. It's growing. And what is driving so many men to it? Female behavior. Feminism. BelieveAllWomen. Forced parenthood. Cuckholdry. Divorce. Paternity fraud. Hook up culture. Sexlessness. Family court system. The women and the system that protects them and allows them to mistreat men is what drives men to TRP. This isn't just an American issue. It's a global issue. Japan has their herbivore men. Africa has is own black manosphere area. These movements aren't shrinking, they are growing. Even just this week Jamie Fox the famous actor, comedian and singer came out and said he will never get married. He has been known for being a smash and dash kind of guy. Dude is rich. And has 2 kids. He is living the redpill lifestyle even without saying it. Leonardo as well. The community is growing.

They blame women for choosing „bad men“ and ending up alone after abusing or cheating. But they don’t blame men for choosing bad women, or not to the same extent. That’s just one example why that „community“ is garbage. I’ve seen it, it’s so funny, it’s so toxic. And all that garbage about Hypergamy when this bullshit is already disproven.

I disagree. They do blame men for choosing bad women. That's why they tell guys not to get married!!! And when they do and get divorced raped and end up crying to the TRP community we tell them they fucked up. Take PJ Washington. Very recent example of a guy who got baby trapped by a praying mantis of a female named Brittney Renner. She received her share of disgust but everyone was definitely calling PJ Washington and idiot for getting with and dating her in the first place. I don't think there is a single video out there that doesn't hold. PJ Washington accountable for stupidly dating a toxic female. Men don't get that "no victim blaming" safety card. Women do. Men can and will be "victim blamed". The same way "body positively" mainly only includes females. Let us not forget the infamous "why curvy women refuse to date fat men" article.

Financial cuckoldry is the most harmful thing you can do to men? It sucks for both genders equally, it’s just that I guess men are more often the victims. Same with rape, it’s sucks equally for both genders, but women are more often the victim.

Sucks for both genders equally? 97% of alimony payments are payed by men to women. There is nothing equal about it. How do we avoid such a thing? By not getting married. Who would be preaching such a msg? TRP.

In American a women can LIE TO YOU and have you raise a child that isn't yours. Have you spend years and hundreds of thousand of dollars raising a kid that isn't yours and society tells you to "man up and suck it up" Aka just deal with. Let someone wrong you the worse way possible by tricking you into investing your time, money and attention into a kid that isn't even yours though fraud. And a second runner up to that would be society forcing you to the same thing for a kid that is yours, but that you never wanted. But in both situations the man's decision making power is stripped from him.

Rapists get very short sentences, in my country at least, it’s laughable. They get 6 months on probation or two years prison at worst, raping a child gets you around 5 years (at worst). The legal system sucks, not just for men.

In America, if you can prove it, guys go to jail for 5 to 20 years. Aka their entire life can be removed for rape. You get a few outliers like Brock Turner who have the privilege thing of being from a rich and socially acceptable white family, but if your a minority or poor your ass is grass. That's the punishment men get for taking a women's decision making power away and forcing her to do something against her will. But say a women forced a man to do something against his will like forcing him to pay for a kid he never wanted or forcing him to raise a kid that isn't his or let's say she raped him sexually she is very likely to do no jail time at all. In America it has been very well established that females do 60% LESS prison time than men for the exact same crimes. The legal system is much harder on men than it ever has been on women. A man could be an upstanding citizen and still lose custody of his kid while a mother has to be nothing short of a drug addicted felon to lose custody.

[–]NotinRedpillBubble1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

No, paying for a child, being forced to pay for a child, is not worse than being raped for many people. As I said, you can feel different, it’s fine.

„And yet female behavior continues to drive men forward it“… Uhm I highly doubt. I mean there are bad women out there. Yes. But also an equal amount of bad men. So that’s not an argument. The men who have watched many YouTube videos and the „BelieveAllWomen“ stuff are generally men who already had some bitterness in them. Reasonable people know both genders „female and male behavior“ can be bad.

The red Pill is a bunch of sexist and bitter men, not all men of course but way too many.

You point to hook up culture and Sexlessness. Do you blame others for not having sex? I don’t feel sorry for you. I don’t feel sorry for anyone, male or female, in that situation. You can’t blame women for the fact a decent amount of people fuck each other. Honestly I also have issues with some men these days, especially those men of the red pill. They don’t seem to have best morals, think cheating is not as bad then they do it and also are braggy about fucking 300 strangers. Those people aren’t people I would consider dating. Grosses me out.

But the solution is easy, don’t date people you don’t like.

I can also count bad things „, sexual harassment, cheating husbands, Double standards, women being hold to different and higher standards, men uploading their exes privacy“ So what now?

Cuckoldry? What does this mean? Both genders are cheated on. The fact bad women exist isn’t new. Cuckoldry isn’t new. There are husband that cheat on their wives and infect those poor wives with STDs, what is your point? Bad women and men exist.

The family court system is unfair in America and I guess there are cases of paternity fraud, but the red pill is not the answer. The red pill uses those things as an excuse for their weird theories and views. Like the debunked bullshit about Hypergamy (I’ve sent you a link) and Women being less loyal despite the fact men are 7 times more likely to leave their sick spouse.

You can’t blame the existence of „bad male behavior“ and „bad female behavior“ for people believing in pathetic shit like the red pill or radical feminism.

That being said, think what you want. I know the red pill is allergic to nuance and facts they don’t approve of. Have a nice day.

[–]asdf333aza3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

No, paying for a child, being forced to pay for a child, is not worse than being raped for many people. As I said, you can feel different, it’s fine.

„And yet female behavior continues to drive men forward it“… Uhm I highly doubt. I mean there are bad women out there. Yes. But also an equal amount of bad men. So that’s not an argument. The men who have watched many YouTube videos and the „BelieveAllWomen“ stuff are generally men who already had some bitterness in them. Reasonable people know both genders „female and male behavior“ can be bad.

The red Pill is a bunch of sexist and bitter men, not all men of course but way too many.

You point to hook up culture and Sexlessness. Do you blame others for not having sex? I don’t feel sorry for you. I don’t feel sorry for anyone, male or female, in that situation. You can’t blame women for the fact a decent amount of people fuck each other. Honestly I also have issues with some men these days, especially those men of the red pill. They don’t seem to have best morals, think cheating is not as bad then they do it and also are braggy about fucking 300 strangers. Those people aren’t people I would consider dating. Grosses me out.

But the solution is easy, don’t date people you don’t like.

I can also count bad things „, sexual harassment, cheating husbands, Double standards, women being hold to different and higher standards, men uploading their exes privacy“ So what now?

Cuckoldry? What does this mean? Both genders are cheated on. The fact bad women exist isn’t new. Cuckoldry isn’t new. There are husband that cheat on their wives and infect those poor wives with STDs, what is your point? Bad women and men exist.

The family court system is unfair in America and I guess there are cases of paternity fraud, but the red pill is not the answer. The red pill uses those things as an excuse for their weird theories and views. Like the debunked bullshit about Hypergamy (I’ve sent you a link) and Women being less loyal despite the fact men are 7 times more likely to leave their sick spouse.

You can’t blame the existence of „bad male behavior“ and „bad female behavior“ for people believing in pathetic shit like the red pill or radical feminism.

That being said, think what you want. I know the red pill is allergic to nuance and facts they don’t approve of. Have a nice day.

This post is too old for me to care about anymore, and you're resulting to the typical insults that people throw when they let their emotions get in the way. It's all a bit too immature for me to deal with, but I'm sure someone else will take the time to read whatever ad hominem filled story your just typed out for yourself, but it won't be me.

[–]NotinRedpillBubble0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]asdf333aza3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

When a man is having sex with a woman with no protection, and abortion being illegal …he is definitely consenting to parenthood.

With your logic, a girl who goes on a date with a guy or comes to his house is definitely consenting to sex with the guy.

One act does not consent to another act. Just cause she hangs out with you does not mean she wants to sleep with you. Just cause he sleeps with you does not mean he wants to have a child with you.

We take the stance that unless a women verbalized consent than sex is not on the table. So take the same stance with parenthood. Unless a man verbalized his desire to be a parent with you, his involvement with the child is not on the table. And she should move accordingly to decide if she wants to be a single mother or if she wants to prevent or terminate a pregnancy. Her body her choice, his wallet his choice. She is an independent women making an unilateral and independent decision. A independent adult should not be Financially responsible for another independent adult's decision. We've all heard of no taxation without representation. Well If he has no say, he should not pay.

And abortion isn't illegal in America. It is readily available for any female within a certain time frame. The most strict of states which are very few in number give women 4 to 6 weeks to find out. And worst case scenario she can drive to another state where the limit is more along 14 weeks. in addition to that women have a variety of birth control options and the plan B pill which is sold over the counter at most pharmacies and can even be ordered online through Amazon with one day shipping. Women have a waterfall of options to prevent and terminate pregnancy, they just choose to be irresponsible with most of them. Give guys the option to prevent pregnancy with a pill or a shot or anything short of invasive surgery and they would gladly take it. To prevent being financially raped over the coals for a a decision they had no say in.

[–]NotinRedpillBubble0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Can you stop comparing CONSENSUAL sex with rape? Are you insane? Have you taken your meds?

„If a woman has to say yes to sex a man has to say yes to being a father“… and a woman has to say yes to be a mother I guess? Meaning abortion can’t possibly be illegal, right?

Okay then a woman can simply give birth to a child, since abortions are not legal in that scenario , and pace that child somewhere else? She isn’t forced to take care Bc she „didn’t say yes“? My god, this has to be good trolling.

I wrote, if abortion is NOT POSSIBLE and a dude knows that, has unprotected sex with a woman, YES and that case he is consenting to parenthood, I honestly hold men to that standard, it’s not man-hating, the same way it’s not woman-hating to expect a woman to take care of that child and for it abortion. The same way a woman is consenting to parenthood, I make no difference here. She knows she can’t abort it and isn’t using protection.

If abortion IS an option, that would be different of course.

But if it isn’t, a woman is forced to take care for a child, same way a man is.

For you to even bring up rape just tells you you are a vile dude with some serious reasoning problems.

You could ONlY argue like if you think BOTH genders in that scenario can simply not take care, aka morally and legally they shouldn’t be obliged to take care.

Funny as fuck my dude. Comedy pure. That’s it, I can’t deal with people like this. If you feel raped Bc you fuck someone without protection and no option to abort, I don’t feel sorry for you, you don’t deserve the same sympathy like male or female rape victims.

[–]asdf333aza1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Can you stop comparing CONSENSUAL sex with rape? Are you insane? Have you taken your meds?

„If a woman has to say yes to sex a man has to say yes to being a father“… and a woman has to say yes to be a mother I guess? Meaning abortion can’t possibly be illegal, right?

Okay then a woman can simply give birth to a child, since abortions are not legal in that scenario , and pace that child somewhere else? She isn’t forced to take care Bc she „didn’t say yes“? My god, this has to be good trolling.

I wrote, if abortion is NOT POSSIBLE and a dude knows that, has unprotected sex with a woman, YES and that case he is consenting to parenthood, I honestly hold men to that standard, it’s not man-hating, the same way it’s not woman-hating to expect a woman to take care of that child and for it abortion. The same way a woman is consenting to parenthood, I make no difference here. She knows she can’t abort it and isn’t using protection.

If abortion IS an option, that would be different of course.

But if it isn’t, a woman is forced to take care for a child, same way a man is.

For you to even bring up rape just tells you you are a vile dude with some serious reasoning problems.

You could ONlY argue like if you think BOTH genders in that scenario can simply not take care, aka morally and legally they shouldn’t be obliged to take care.

Funny as fuck my dude. Comedy pure. That’s it, I can’t deal with people like this. If you feel raped Bc you fuck someone without protection and no option to abort, I don’t feel sorry for you, you don’t deserve the same sympathy like male or female rape victims.

This post is too old for me to care about anymore, and you're resulting to the typical insults that people throw when they let their emotions get in the way. It's all a bit too immature for me to deal with, but I'm sure someone else will take the time to read whatever ad hominem filled story your just typed out for yourself, but it won't be me.

[–]medlabunicorn1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]asdf333aza1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]medlabunicorn1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]asdf333aza1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]medlabunicorn0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]asdf333aza1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

If only women got to stop paying for the kid after delivery. Women actually pay a higher proportion of their income towards their kid for that full 18 years than men do, and most mothers are working mothers even if their husbands or baby daddies also contribute.

Good thing she has 100% say on if that kid is born or not and if that kid goes into the system or not.

She made the independent decision to have that kid so she shouldn't be paying for "part" of the child care expenses she should be paying for ALL OF IT BY HERSELF.

She, as a strong independent women made a unilateral decision to have a child. She as a strong independent women can pay got her own decision by herself. Not part of her decision, but all of it.

If a men did not consent to being a parent, he should not have to be financially responsible for another independent adults decision.

Women actually pay a higher proportion of their income towards their kid for that full 18 years than men do

Higher proportion does not equal a higher amount. A women earning 10k a year part time working and spending 9k on the child doesn't equate to shit when she is getting 40k a year from child support and alimony.

[–]medlabunicorn1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]NotinRedpillBubble1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]HumanNumber348Soon to be hypergamous divorce rapist cat lady slut 96 points97 points98 points 4 years ago (38 children) | Copy Link

[–]Amr_Yasser 24 points25 points26 points 4 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]hi_and_fuck_you 17 points18 points19 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NotinRedpillBubble 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]pfmarshallx 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]mrcs84usnFatty Fat Neck Beard 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Amr_Yasser 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Reptilian4625Purple Pill Man 12 points13 points14 points 4 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

[–]Notsonewguy7Purple Pill Man/ Ex-hetero 41 points42 points43 points 4 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

[–]razormachine 31 points32 points33 points 4 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]JackmPearson 10 points11 points12 points 4 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]melange_merchant 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]FillingUpSpace 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]xigoi 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]FillingUpSpace 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Acetronaut 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Genetic_Prisoner0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Genetic_Prisoner-1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]silent36 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]jbo99 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]silent36 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]single4yrsncounting 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]jbo99 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Safe_Arachnid_5254 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NotinRedpillBubble 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MajesticMaple25 M 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]-SetsunaFSeiei-Purple Pill Man 13 points14 points15 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]MajesticMaple25 M 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]xigoi 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Notsonewguy7Purple Pill Man/ Ex-hetero 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]redditthrowaway1478💪M/30/Seattle/red/optimistic nihilist 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NotinRedpillBubble1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]unfknblvbe 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AutoModerator[M] 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]purplish_possum 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]KikiYuyuPurple Pill Woman 139 points140 points141 points 4 years ago (187 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 37 points38 points39 points 4 years ago (28 children) | Copy Link

[–]whybotherany 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]pfmarshallx 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]whybotherany 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Bruhmomentusmaximus01 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]hi_and_fuck_you 12 points13 points14 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]CrackerUMustBTripinn 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]antonio_aurelio 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]CrackerUMustBTripinn -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]antonio_aurelio -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]CrackerUMustBTripinn 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

First that is not a common situation.

If that's where you put the line then that's what you are defending.

Second, you should have used the medical emergency situation. Yeah sure as if a 10 year old has the ability to handle professionally after being raped by her brother and has the knowhow within 2 weeks after a missed period to detect a pregnancy and can navigate themselves to get the medical treatment they desperately need at that moment. Get F ing real.

So many women cry rape falsely that it shouldn't be used as
justification for murdering babies (no matter how much American women
love to murder babies).

Citation needed first of all, and second of all women don't owe you or anyone else for that matter an explanation or justification for their medical decisions about THEIR body. Since you don't value bodily autonomy let me leave you with the wisdom of pastor Dave Barnhart:

The unborn are a convenient group of
people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally
uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically
poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not
politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question
patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or
childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural,
and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good
about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining
relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them,
because they cease to be unborn. It’s almost as if, by being born, they
have died to you. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without
substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without
re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to
anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to
claim you love Jesus but actually dislike people who breathe.Prisoners?
Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that
are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the
bus for the unborn.

[–]antonio_aurelio 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]CrackerUMustBTripinn0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Fetuses are not babies, it's not your womb you have no bodily autonomy. Its really easy but you want to force yourself inside a women's vagina so badly. A fetus is not a person, does not have personhood, has no viability on their own, has no neurodevelopment of consciousness, and if you still feel that your religious views of personhood make this a justiviable position then you are gladly invited to f off because you can't enforce your religious views on anyone else, that's a little thing called freedom and is the basis of the first amendment.

'Have you noticed that the people who are against abortions, are people you wouldn't want to fuck in the first place?' G. Carlin

Oh and BTW that citation is one study of a whopping 136 rape accusations at a college which turned out that 2-10 percent where deemed false is in no way some justifications for your statement that rape is used often as a justification for women why they choose to get abortions which is false. Totally moot point anyway.

[–]antonio_aurelio2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Fetuses are not babies, it's not your womb you have no bodily autonomy. Its really easy but you want to force yourself inside a women's vagina so badly. A fetus is not a person, does not have personhood, has no viability on their own, has no neurodevelopment of consciousness, and if you still feel that your religious views of personhood make this a justiviable position then you are gladly invited to f off because you can't enforce your religious views on anyone else,

First, learn how to spell. You sound like an idiot (and your argument doesn't make you sound much better tbh).

Second, I'm not religious at all.

I just don't believe that poor decision-making and a lack of foresight are good justifications for murdering a living being. There should be consequences for these actions in the form of fines and/or jail time.

that's a little thing called freedom and is the basis of the first amendment.

You sound like those QAnon nut jobs when you inaccurately use the first amendment to justify heinous acts.

The first amendment refers to Freedom of Speech, not Freedom to Kill Living Things. Do you understand the difference?

'Have you noticed that the people who are against abortions, are people you wouldn't want to fuck in the first place?' G. Carlin

This is a common and tired trope commonly espoused by feminists when they are losing an argument to a man: call him an incel.

I'm a high N-count man with a history of multiple relationships (including an engagement). So you'll have to throw this deflection elsewhere.

Oh and BTW that citation is one study of a whopping 136 rape accusations at a college which turned out that 2-10 percent where deemed false is in no way some justifications for your statement that rape is used often as a justification for women why they choose to get abortions which is false. Totally moot point anyway.

It isn't a moot point. False rape accusations are common. You asked for a source and I provided one to you. Don't move the goal posts now. It reflects poorly on you and your argument.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Megabyte7637Red Pill Man 10 points11 points12 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]nightman008 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Megabyte7637Red Pill Man 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]nightman008 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]vegville1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]antonio_aurelio 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Megabyte7637Red Pill Man 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Safe_Arachnid_5254 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted]0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Bruhmomentusmaximus01 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]StrengthAndHealth26M 39 points40 points41 points 4 years ago (64 children) | Copy Link

[–]KikiYuyuPurple Pill Woman 56 points57 points58 points 4 years ago (59 children) | Copy Link

[–]Megabyte7637Red Pill Man 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]KikiYuyuPurple Pill Woman 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]toxicdudio 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]meme_lords_unite1 points 4 years ago [recovered] (25 children) | Copy Link

what seems most logical and fair imo.

This is why I love pickmes. They advocate for fairness, but get shit on by other women. Unless you conform to female hive mind of men bad, women will hate you.

[–]tickledpic 13 points14 points15 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]NiceGuyNumber4 10 points11 points12 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]AramisNight 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]crucioda real fake 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]redditthrowaway1478💪M/30/Seattle/red/optimistic nihilist 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]gbreadmum 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]C4yourshelf 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]gbreadmum 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]CentralAdmin 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]meme_lords_unite3 points 4 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

They are grade A wifey material ime.

[–]gbreadmum-1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Sigma19793 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]AvatarReiko 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]JennyConcinnity -4 points-3 points-2 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]_Oh_Be_Nice_ 10 points11 points12 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]bluehorserunning 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]gizzmotech 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]KikiYuyuPurple Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]BioStuNo Pill 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]CrackerUMustBTripinn 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Sigma1979I love feminism AND trp 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]KikiYuyuPurple Pill Woman 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]toxicdudio 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]KikiYuyuPurple Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]redditthrowaway1478💪M/30/Seattle/red/optimistic nihilist 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]KikiYuyuPurple Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]silent36 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]MajesticMaple25 M 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (20 children) | Copy Link

[–]AramisNight 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]MajesticMaple25 M 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago* (8 children) | Copy Link

Are you suggesting that women have continued legal/financial responsibilities towards their aborted fetus?

No

Because that is the only way any of what you said follows.

All I'm saying it's not just a form you sign to surrender your parenthood. It's a procedure or a pill you take to prevent reproduction. It's like wearing a condom or taking a contraceptive, yes it prevents parenthood but it also prevents reproduction.

The equivalent of legal parental surrender for men would be legal parental surrender for women, not abortion. Currently, men and women have the same reproductive and parental rights. If men don't want to reproduce they need to take actions prior to the completion of their role in reproduction in order to stop themselves from completing their role. For women it's the same thing, they just have a different role. If you give men legal parental surrender, you need to give it to women as well. I just don't see why this would be beneficial to society as a whole.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]MajesticMaple25 M 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]MajesticMaple25 M 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted]2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MajesticMaple1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MajesticMaple1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

A woman can unilaterally abdicate her legal responsibility to be a parent at several points throughout pregnancy and becoming a new mother, and if she decides to abort the child that the sexual partner may have wanted to be a father to, well now he’s just shit out of luck and without child without any legal avenues to protect the child from being aborted.

Yeah and during the act of reproduction a man can pull his penis out and go home. The woman may have wanted to be a parent but now is shit out of luck. While you are actively reproducing, you can choose to stop actively reproducing. This is true for both genders. No one should put a gun to a man's head and force him to nut inside her nor should someone put a gun to a woman's head and force her to provide nutrients to a fetus she doesn't want. It's 100% equal.

Likewise, should the sexual partner have not wanted to father children

Likewise if a woman doesn't want to be a mother and completes her role in reproduction she is on the hook for financial responsibilities to a child she didn't want. Here's the thing: we can stop reproducing before we complete are roles in reproduction. Both men and women have that ability. If you chose not to and the result is a child, that's your fault and your responsibility.

[–]KikiYuyuPurple Pill Woman 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]MajesticMaple25 M 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Unless there is some sort of heightened medical risk to the mother

Their might be or maybe the woman just doesn't want to undergo a medical procedure for whatever reason. It's her body her choice. If you're going to give men the ability to sign away their legal parental rights you need to give that to women as well, otherwise it's unfair.

Currently, things are 100% equal, I have the same reproductive and parental rights as any woman. If I don't want to reproduce, I just stop my body from reproducing prior to completing my role in reproduction, whether that's pulling out or wearing a condom is up to me. Women have same ability, they can prevent themselves from completing their role in reproduction through abortion, contraception, etc etc. Their role is just different and has a longer timeline. You're creating new privileges for men when things are currently 100% equal, I also don't understand how these privileges help society at large.

[–]KikiYuyuPurple Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]MajesticMaple0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]KikiYuyu1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MajesticMaple1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

She can't kill a baby, she's aborting a fetus. We can argue about the legality of abortion e.g. where do the rights of the mother end and the rights of the fetus begin but this has nothing to do with legal parental surrender.

Assuming a fetus is not a person, then only the mother should get a say. For example, you can get really attached to my appendix, but just because you care about that part of my body I still don't need to consult you before I get it removed due to appendicitis. "I care about x part of your body" is not an argument to take away bodily autonomy. Every person has the right to have ANY medical procedure without consulting their significant other, this is true regardless of gender, there is no inequality.

If the fetus is a person, then abortion should be illegal. There is no inequality. Legal parental surrender is irrelevant here.

[–]KikiYuyu2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MajesticMaple1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

fetus gets to be considered a person depending on the opinion and basically the pure whim of the woman

No, this is a question for the courts and how the laws are written in a particular jurisdiction. A woman can have her own personal opinion on top of that, but her opinion doesn't matter. If the courts rule that a fetus' rights are being violated due to abortion than the abortion is not permitted regardless of her personal opinion.

If a fetus really had no worth preserving, misarranges wouldn't be traumatic. What's there to grieve?

The people grieving must've had an emotional attachment to the fetus, but that doesn't necessarily mean they think it's a person. Even if they did their opinions are just opinions.

Do people who get their appendix remove grieve?

They might, people grieve when they lose their legs for example. A husband might be upset if his wife elected to get a mastectomy as well.

But this is getting off topic. Again if a fetus is a person, the corrective action would be restricting abortion not legal parental surrender.

[–]Bruhmomentusmaximus01 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]MajesticMaple1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]NotinRedpillBubble 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I don’t think it’s rare. Im a Woman and I think men should be able to financially abort a child, even tho I think it’s immoral to not care about your own flesh and blood, it shouldn’t be illegal.

I also think it’s kinda immoral to abort a child, but I still think a Woman should have the option to do it without being called a murderer.

But I also think you should look at individual situations.

First of all, I dislike men who think the protection is not their responsibility. Only a fucking stupid man would not wear a condom when he sleeps with a stranger or if he know that his girlfriend isn’t on the pill. Why would you risk it? EVEN if you DO have the option to abandon the child, it’s still stupid.

The same way a woman should take the pill, or something else! Just Bc I COULD abort a fetus, doesn’t mean I have to put myself in that situation.

Also: Men should not be able to change their minds. A woman needs to inform a man about the pregnancy and he needs to decide whether he wants it. If he doesn’t, fine. A woman now can keep it or not, it shouldn’t affect the man. BUT if he DOES want it, he needs to be accountable now.

I hope it’s clear that I’m all for fairness.

[–]StrengthAndHealth1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]NotinRedpillBubble2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ErrendeEbecee 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Amazing-Row-5963Purple Pill Man 49 points50 points51 points 4 years ago (51 children) | Copy Link

[–]KikiYuyuPurple Pill Woman 43 points44 points45 points 4 years ago (45 children) | Copy Link

[–]bluehorserunning -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (44 children) | Copy Link

[–]AtaCome7821"Miraculous! Simply the best!" 22 points23 points24 points 4 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]bluehorserunning 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]VastlyVainVanityVirtue Pill 18 points19 points20 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Except the law doesn't (or shouldn't) work like that. "It sucks, but that's the way it is" is a horrible argument for anything when it comes to Law.

Women aren't on average as strong and fit as men. The Army's Fitness Test is different for women because they take into account that. If we used your argument, we'd just forbid most women to join the Army.

Specifically about the Law, we can talk about Femicide being a thing and Androcide not being a thing in modern countries. Because gender violence that results in death has consistently far more female victims.

My point being that Paper Abortion would be a way to level the field. Women still have 100% of the power to choose to abort or keep the baby, but they can't force the father to support the kid for years.

Another example related to both Law and gender difference is paternity tests. Women know a kid is theirs, men don't. So it would be more fair if all children born had a paternity test by default. But we won't see that happening any time soon.

[–][deleted] 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]VastlyVainVanityVirtue Pill 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]bluehorserunning0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

The law accounts for biology in this matter by allowing women, and not men, to get abortions, because pregnancy affects women, and not men.

I'm not actually against what you're proposing, in a limited sense: with a 'paper abortion,' for example, the dude would have to do it in the first trimester (so that the abortion would still be physiologically safe and legal), would have to pay for half of the cost of an abortion (whether she got one or not), and would sign away ALL rights to initiate contact with the offspring permanently, forever, no take-backs, on penalty of being held responsible for back child support for the kid's entire life.

What I see actually happening with male legislators is that a dude could get a 'paper abortion' after promising the woman that he'd be supportive for 8 months, or even after the kid was born (because men already split when it's too hard to take care of a kid), and then try to become dads when the kid's too old to ask for child support, while complaining the entire time that 'their ex won't let them see their own child.' You know that's what would happen, just like it was obvious from the start that the people who sued abortion providers in Texas wouldn't do so because they gaf about 'the unborn.'

Technically, the proper term is 'homicide,' and yes it is definitely a thing, legally speaking.

I also have zero problem with paternity tests being standard, with the option for the parents to opt out if (for example) they know that they have fertility issues and don't want to have the husband's inability to father a child rubbed in their faces. I honestly don't think it's much of a problem - it's between 0.8% and 3% in western nations, from the studies I've seen - but like you said, the woman can tell and the man can't, and that really seems to freak some men out so ok. I honestly think that most of the benefits would accrue to women on that one - none of the 'she's a whore, the kid's not mine!' excuses that men traditionally use whether they have any evidence of infidelity or not.

[–]VastlyVainVanity3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Then we don't really disagree in regards to paper abortion. As it stands, men have no say on whether they will or will not have to support the child, I'd just like to see some way for men to not be forced to pay for a kid they did not want from the start. Your slippery slope argument is something that I don't agree with though. We don't stop people from having certain rights because we "KNOW" that they will end up asking for more.

Homicide is just murder. It's not the equivalent of femicide, no idea how you think it is. Androcide would be the equivalent: gender violence against men that results in murder. That female serial killer, Aileen Wournos, who only targeted men would be an example of someone who committed androcide. "Homo" is for "human", not for man in this case.

And honestly 3% is an insane amount for paternity fraud, no idea how you can think it's not a big deal. Imagine taking a risk for something that has a 3% chance of making you indebted for hundreds of thousands of dollars, I doubt you'd consider that "no big deal". Not taking into account the psychological and emotional trauma of being deceived by a person you loved, and for having bonded with the kids thinking they were yours. It's a horrible crime.

[–]bluehorserunning1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]VastlyVainVanity1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Bruhmomentusmaximus00 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]bluehorserunning1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

So you're ok with a dude stringing a woman along, saying that he's into the whole parenthood thing, and then ditching after it becomes impossible or virtually impossible for her to end the pregnancy. Because we both know that's what will happen.

And 'women aren't financially penalized for giving birth...' ! You must not live in the US. Prenatal care and L&D are tens of thousands of dollars here. Then there's unpaid time off of work as her body recovers. Then there's the hit that her paycheck takes if she decides to keep the kid.

And custody favors the primary caretaker, not the mother. It just so happens that many dads don't give an actual fuck about their kids, except to avoid paying child care (as evidenced by this thread, and by all of the dads who just flat-out abandon their kids after divorce), and many more do only the bare minimum of child care that their exes harass them into doing. Where dads are the primary caretaker, they're the ones who get custody. I know a couple of lady docs whose husbands got custody because the docs were at the hospital 50-80 hours a week, and since that's unlikely to change after a divorce, it's in the kids' best interest to be placed with the parent who will actually be there.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]bluehorserunning 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]RemindMeBot 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I will be messaging you in 5 years on 2026-10-02 00:00:00 UTC to remind you of this link

CLICK THIS LINK to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.

^{Parent commenter can} ^{delete this message to hide from others.}

^Info	^Custom	^{Your Reminders}	^Feedback

[–]bluehorserunning 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]CentralAdmin 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If a man beats his wife to death, should we simply claim it's biology and it sucks but that's the way it is?

Should companies refuse to hire women because they get pregnant and need maternity leave because it's biology and it sucks but that's the way it is?

Should we exclude women from certain jobs because it's biology and it sucks but that's the way it is?

Because that's the kind of logic people used to exclude women from certain roles before. They treated women as inferior due to biology. But men and women found this unfair and made ways for women to be included in roles despite the physical disadvantages they had (emergency and rescue staff) and their apparent lack of interest (STEM).

We cannot consider ourselves progressive by any means if we exclude someone from an important life choice based on biology. Otherwise all that hard work we did to include people of different belief systems, races, and levels of ability would be for nothing.

The law can be changed to allow men an equal choice. We did it for women, why can we not offer men a choice? One of the biggest problems with not offering men a choice is that an adult woman can rape a minor, get pregnant and then sue the minor for child support and win!

This means a teacher could rape your son and he would be thousands in debt when he turns 18 if she decides to keep the child. Shouldn't that boy at least be given the chance to opt out after being victimised? What about grown men who were raped? Why do they not get a choice either? And in cases where he consented to sex, it should not be assumed it is consent to being a parent, especially if women do not consent to being moms simply for sleeping with their boyfriends.

[–]bluehorserunning 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Are you suggesting that men are biologically programmed to beat their wives to death? That's a bit misandrist of you. I personally think that men are better than that. Companies do make hiring decisions based on perceived fertility; they just don't do so legally. They legally make promotion and advancement decisions based on maternity leave or lack thereof. Women are absolutely precluded from jobs that they are not physically capable of performing. More women were always interested in STEM than were allowed into STEM. Women now get into STEM at near-parity for some fields, but fall out (the 'leaky pipeline') because of sexism within academia and because they don't have wives to take care of everything at home when they spend 14/7 at the lab.

I agree that any rapist getting custody, much less suing the rape victim for support, is grotesque.

I also agree that it sucks when people don't have choices about their future, regardless of why that is.

[–]princelydeeds 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]bluehorserunning -4 points-3 points-2 points 4 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]princelydeeds 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]bluehorserunning-1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]princelydeeds3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]bluehorserunning1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]bluehorserunning 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]bluehorserunning 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted]2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]princelydeeds 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]bluehorserunning 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]princelydeeds1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]medlabunicorn1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Bruhmomentusmaximus01 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]bluehorserunning1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]KikiYuyuPurple Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]bluehorserunning0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]KikiYuyu1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]bluehorserunning0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]KikiYuyu1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]bluehorserunning0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]KikiYuyu1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]bluehorserunning1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]gopher_glitz 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]single4yrsncounting 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]mrcs84usnFatty Fat Neck Beard 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]CrackerUMustBTripinn0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Malice_Alice_ 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]KikiYuyuPurple Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ayeayefitlikeBlueish-Purple Pill Woman 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]purplish_possum 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]hi_and_fuck_you 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]purplish_possum 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]CentralAdmin 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Reptilian4625Purple Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]SpartasBest 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]g0juice 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]CrackerUMustBTripinn 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]NotinRedpillBubble1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]KikiYuyu1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]healththrow3451 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]vegville1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]KikiYuyu1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[+]gbreadmum -6 points-5 points-4 points 4 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

[–]Whale_Song_Genres 10 points11 points12 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]gbreadmum-2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ex_red_black_piller10 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]gbreadmum0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]CentralAdmin1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]voltran1987 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]gbreadmum 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]voltran1987 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]gbreadmum 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]voltran1987 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]gbreadmum 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]voltran1987 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]gbreadmum 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]voltran19872 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]gbreadmum0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]voltran19870 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I forgot it was purge!!!

It’s bad when anyone does it. We should want everyone to live better and happier lives.

I’m sure they do, but people like are whiny little bitches who can’t take even the slightest criticism. You’re a pathetic waste of space, and all the little piece of shit people in your life should be ashamed for knowing you. You’re pathetic, and your parents are ten times more pathetic for raising a piece of shit like you. The only way someone could raise such a disgusting person, is by being bigger pieces of shit (just in case you weren’t understanding me).

Ultimately, I’m done talking to you. You’re too dumb to understand something that doesn’t line up with what your little brain is programmed to see. Enjoy your miserable life you piece of trash. I’m so glad there’s a block butting on here so I don’t have to read hate filled pathetic ramblings from a literal idiot.

[–]gbreadmum0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]voltran19872 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]cxmahogany 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DjangoUBlackBastard 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]gbreadmum0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DjangoUBlackBastard2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]KikiYuyuPurple Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]lingualistic 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]XpHAHAman 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]lingualistic 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]XpHAHAman 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]lingualistic 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]XpHAHAman 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]lingualistic 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Complete_Character_3 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]jimjam696969 18 points19 points20 points 4 years ago (35 children) | Copy Link

[+]PsychologicalPlay235 -6 points-5 points-4 points 4 years ago (34 children) | Copy Link

[–]silent36 13 points14 points15 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheSmallerGambler 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]jimjam696969 15 points16 points17 points 4 years ago (31 children) | Copy Link

[–]PsychologicalPlay235-11 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]jimjam69696915 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]PsychologicalPlay235-7 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]jimjam69696912 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]PsychologicalPlay2352 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Chonker_1115 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]PsychologicalPlay2351 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]fuck_this_place__1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]PsychologicalPlay2351 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]fuck_this_place__1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]PsychologicalPlay2351 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]fuck_this_place__1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]PsychologicalPlay2351 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]fuck_this_place__0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]PsychologicalPlay2351 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]fuck_this_place__1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]PsychologicalPlay2351 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]fuck_this_place__1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]PsychologicalPlay2351 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]fuck_this_place__0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]PsychologicalPlay2351 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]fuck_this_place__1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]PsychologicalPlay2351 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]fuck_this_place__1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]PsychologicalPlay2351 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]fuck_this_place__1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]PsychologicalPlay2351 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]fuck_this_place__2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]PsychologicalPlay2351 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]fuck_this_place__2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]PsychologicalPlay2351 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Sufficient_Screen776 59 points60 points61 points 4 years ago (31 children) | Copy Link

The idea that men don’t get a say in this really bothers me.

I’ll start by saying: I don’t care if other women have abortions. Does the concept of abortion bother me? Yes, quite a lot. But do I feel like it’s my place to prevent other people from doing it? No. It also does not affect me. I just have to be honest.

But if you’re a man and you helped create that baby, it’s 50% yours too, and it does affect you. So should women be allowed to just take 100% of the decision making? I don’t know that I agree with that. I have known men to whom this happened and they were devastated by it. Some of them were unable to get over it.

Men deserve to be treated a lot better in this debate, in my opinion. I don’t think it’s right or fair to exclude them. They have a right to be heard too. Fathers are not disposable.

I am a woman.

[–][deleted] 30 points31 points32 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]manfrom-nantucket 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]silent36 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Sufficient_Screen776 15 points16 points17 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Whale_Song_Genres 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Sufficient_Screen776 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]CentralAdmin 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ARX7 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Sufficient_Screen776 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]ARX7 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Warchief_Ripnugget 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kaisha001 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]CrackerUMustBTripinn 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That's some both sideism. And you are right one side is puritanical and wants to enforce their religious beliefs on society while the other side is evidence based and wants to reduce unwanted pregnancies.

Want to reduce abortions? Want to reduce unwanted pregnancies? 2 simple and ultra cheap methods: Evidence based age appropriate sex ed and easy and free access to birth control especially for teens.

But thats exactly what the puritans hate and block, because it's not about abortions but about abolishing indivual sexual autonomy, they hate freedom and want to see as much punishment for women that in their eyes deviate from their puritanical sexual authoritarianism.

But I can't say it any better then Methodist Pastor Dave Barnhart:

The unborn” are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never
make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the
incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don’t resent your
condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike
widows, they don’t ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they
don’t need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t
bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike;
they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating
or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget
about them, because they cease to be unborn. It’s almost as if, by being
born, they have died to you. You can love the unborn and advocate for
them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or
privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or
making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to
love if you want to claim you love Jesus but actually dislike people who
breathe.

Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn.

And if you really want to go down the rabbit hole how f ed up the whole movement really is.

[–]Kaisha0010 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Mark_Freednah nah nah c'mon 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Sufficient_Screen776 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]CentralAdmin 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mark_Freednah nah nah c'mon 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]CentralAdmin 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I think blacks asked rights and their movement gained acceptance when people outside their race starting fighting with them.

Sure but we didn't JUST listen because white people had sympathy. In many countries they had to use the threat of a civil war to be heard. But even so the issue is whether we believe in any principles of fairness when it comes at cost to us. It's easy to care about fairness from a distance, but when someone has to pay it becomes harder to convince them that equality is good.

For example, how many women would be okay with men having the choice of a "financial" abortion where they can give up their parental rights? Because women may have to pay here (or receive nothing from men) they are against it even if it is in the spirit of fairness. In this case they seek privilege. Not equality.

As men we are biased so it lends legitimacy to our movement when people who are not men see the validity of our demands.

Everyone is biased, sure. But why can the argument not stand in and of itself? All this does is tell men that society and most women cannot be trusted to care for their issues and they may have to take matters into their own hands.

Rather than people listening to women, I think more women advocating on men's issues is a side-effect of the movement as it goes mainstream.

Perhaps. I think it has more to do with women realising their sons and other male family members are being hurt rather than any empathy from the issues men in general face. But progress is progress.

[–]Mark_Freednah nah nah c'mon 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]JennyConcinnity 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Sufficient_Screen776 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]silent36 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]princelydeeds 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]bluehorserunning 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Sufficient_Screen776 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]bluehorserunning 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]vegville 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Sufficient_Screen7761 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]vegville1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]CrackerUMustBTripinn 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]roktoman 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]CrackerUMustBTripinn 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Genetic_PrisonerNo Pill 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AvatarReiko 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]OG_walrusSpace Chad[S] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]AvatarReiko 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]medlabunicorn1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]OG_walrus0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]medlabunicorn1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]XGBM 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Abortion can only not be murder if the zygote/fetus is not a person. IE, personhood doesn't begin at conception, but rather begins at some point after conception and before birth.

Since personhood occurs in the womb months down the line, then by aborting, a woman is choosing to stop the creation of a person before it occurs. Essentially, the choice to abort is the choice to NOT create a person. Conversely, choosing not to abort is choosing to create a person.

Ergo, the choice to create a person is solely the woman's , and not the mans.

It seems to me that people arguing against paper abortion, while championing the morality of abortion, are simultaneously claiming two contradictory things. That abortion is not murder because a fetus is not a person; Yet, a man is also responsible for creation of a person by partaking in conception. This seems logically contradictory.

Their argument would be consistent if they believed personhood began at conception, since then both man and woman would be equally responsible for conception and therefore the creation of a person. It follows then that abortion would be murder.

Can someone point out where I'm going wrong here ?

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Whale_Song_Genres 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]pubgmisc 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Wildhouse83 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mark_Freednah nah nah c'mon 11 points12 points13 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]silent36 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mark_Freednah nah nah c'mon 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Responsibility is a social construct, we can negotiate and decide where we keep it. I think choosing 50 50 because it sounds "fair" is retarded. This is the kinda of shit feminists say.

When war comes men and women who can take risk, be ruthless and kill should step up and fight, they have more responsibility. The idea of draft is just that we don't know who these people are so we pick everyone and train you. But ideally, responsibility should be given to people who have the capacity to wield the freedom that comes with it.

So when it comes to raising a kid, both parents need to be given responsibility. We cannot allow people to make kids and just be like oops. Then they become criminals and lead horrible lives. Taxpayers need to set up orphanages, support them, mental issues whatnot.

So I think either make early abortion easy and accessible or make casual sex taboo. sex should only be within the confines of marriage, with a person you don't mind raising a kid with. This is why the abortion debate is also a debate on casual sex.

So now people want casual sex and they don't want an abortion. Then kids are born to unstable unions. Or there is no stigma to divorce and people pick poor partners. Anyway whose responsibility is the kid? it is complicated but comes down to the same idea of "give the person who made the choice, who has the freedom more responsibility" and "give the person who has the capacity to carry the responsibility, more responsibility". The first one ensures people are incentivized to pick wisely since they have to take care of the consequences and the second one is there to ensure people who have skills and ability get to use it.

Men can be loving parents, mom's can have no empathy, mom's might earn a shit loads, this is why after minimizing such cases we need a fair family court system to decide on a case by case basis.

[–]silent36 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ruRIP 25 points26 points27 points 4 years ago (81 children) | Copy Link

Why is no one speaking about the physical aspects of either an abortion or pregnancy on women? Abortion isn't an easy thing and has a huge mental and physical toll. It isn't birth control. One does not simply decide to get an abortion wtf. It's usually a very thought out decision made after many factors considered. That's one of the main reasons why men don't get to have a say in it. Both of it, pregnancy or abortion affect only the woman and her body.

A man gets to make the decisions about his own, get a vasectomy if he really doesn't want kids that bad or put a damn condom on. But he really can not expect to DICTATE if a woman has to go through either abortion or pregnancy. His freedom of choice ended while he chose to ejaculate inside. What happens after is a woman's body that she has exclusive rights over. If it was a simple procedure it'd be a different story but abortion is never that simple and the toll it takes is huge, so stop being an entitled prick and be responsible with where you stick your dick in.

[–]drewcer 21 points22 points23 points 4 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]ruRIP 10 points11 points12 points 4 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

I am 100% for signing away paternal & maternal rights if both parties consent without duress, just as I am for women signing away their maternal rights if the man insists in wanting a child. However, ofc something like compensation for duress and all the changes a woman's body and mind has to go through carrying a pregnancy she would've otherwise chosen to terminate.

However, this isn't much feasible (in a man's pov at least tho I am all for it), let me give you an example: I believe abortion is health care, so more or less it is free (not from US) however if you do want to terminate the pregnancy whilst the woman doesn't, compensate her for her mental health and all that she has to endure during that time. Pay for her therapy. And if she doesn't want the pregnancy and the man does, let her waive her entire maternal rights including child support and then idk pay for her whole mommy make over if she wants it (since it is the man's decision to not abort) to get her back to an equal footing. Men's body's go through no change after all 🤷‍♀️ Pay for her PPD therapy sessions after care until she's recovered from birth and ofc all the extra food cravings and all she might want more than what her normal consumption would be as well. If her beliefs do not allow for abortion, then convince her to sign away your paternal rights, Inc child support. Best of luck with it though! After all it is the BOTH of your decision to raw dog or even ejaculate inside, wtv, so it has to be from BOTH of you. And if YOU decide 5 seconds of hammer drilling gives you equal rights to a womans body to have her either continue or terminate it, grow up and own it. That's responsibility.

He had the chance to not ejaculate that is as far as his bodily anatomy allows without infringing on another's bodily autonomy in this scenario. However he is 50% responsible for it thus the financial aspect of it. Women are at so much risk of permanent bodily damage during pregnancy, her body changes to a drastic extent, she's more at risk for blindness, bladder problems, teeth falling out and even risk of death. A man simply cannot in any way expect to be on an even footing for decision making as this as he will NEVER be in that position and he cannot decide FOR her body.

[–]drewcer 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I mean ideally the man and woman are on the same page, and she WANTS to hear his input and take it into account, and he WANTS to support her decisions as well. The best result is when both voluntarily want to hear each other out and base their own decisions on what they can expect from the other person.

Part of being a mature human means understanding compromise might have to happen if they disagree. That's the healthiest way to go about it.

But the law should not force anyone to do anything against their will. Period.

It should not force women to carry a pregnancy and give birth if she does not want the child. And it should not force a man to pay for anything he disagrees to.

Especially in the absence of a DNA test where he doesn't even know if the child is his. Which happens allll the time, some men say they've never even had sex with a woman who roped him into 18 years of child support for some other guy's kid.

In some parts of the US, you do not need a DNA test to take a guy to court and force him to pay child support. It's a huge problem. Opportunistic women take advantage of it all the time.

If a guy does not want to pay for an abortion because that's not what he wants, then there's a conflict of beliefs.

The woman is of equal responsibility that he is for not talking to him about his views before she spread her legs for him and let him bust a nut inside her.

If the man doesn't want the woman to get an abortion but the woman wants one, it still boils down to HER choice to get the abortion. She has full control over whether she does that.

But she can NOT legally force him to pay for it if he doesn't want to.

Does that suck for her?

Yeah, probably. It's a shitty situation from both views.

But there are plenty of other ways of coming up with four hundred bucks if she wants to get rid of the kid. She'll have to figure out how to empower herself to pay for her own abortion which was 100% her decision and not his.

About this:

And if YOU decide 5 seconds of hammer drilling gives you equal rights to a womans body to have her either continue or terminate it, grow up and own it. That's responsibility.

First of all, no one here ever said that would give men equal rights to a woman's body.

The issue is whether the man should be forced to pay for whatever the woman wants to happen without any say in it at all. Which is frankly a childish view in itself.

It views the man like a doormat, like all he is is an ATM machine and he's good for no other purpose. When in fact, half of the baby's DNA is his.

And it views the whole situation like the man has nothing to lose from an accidental pregnancy. When in fact, he still does have quite a lot to lose, although not as much as the woman does.

It's true that the woman has a lot more to lose body-wise from an accidental pregnancy than the man does. But a baby isn't like a demon that always turns a woman into a heaping mess who will never be the same again. I've known a lot of women who got pregnant. Some were harder on their bodies than others. Some pregnancies are relatively simple. It depends.

But to act like a man has absolutely nothing to lose from an accidental pregnancy so he has to shut up and pay for whatever the woman wants ... is a liiiiittttle manipulative.

He's still losing a fair amount of time and resources. Even though the woman is losing more body-wise by carrying the kid. Ideally they're both in it together and they're both willing to compromise on what they want because that's what you effing do in a healthy relationship, and it's a hard decision anyway.

But a man should be able to say, "I'm not going to pay child support without a DNA test" and the woman should respect that and get a DNA test for the kid.

He should also be able to say "You can do whatever you want, but I won't pay for this, this, and this. I WILL pay for this, this, and this. Because some things go against my belief system. Here are my boundaries. Please respect them."

And if a man wishes to convince a woman to keep a baby when she doesn't want to, of course, the LEAST he can do is pay for everything. It's not going to be convincing to a woman otherwise, and she'll be more likely to go through with the abortion. So he has an obvious incentive to pay for everything if he wants her to keep it. To make it more worth it for her to keep it. That's just proper negotiation.

If a woman wants to keep a baby and the man doesn't, he should be able to say, "You can keep the baby, but I don't want to be part of its life, and I don't want to be financially responsible for the kid. But I will pay for an abortion. So make sure you factor that into your decision."

And she's STILL free to make whatever decision she wants. No man owns her body. All he does is tell her his terms. And she can make her own decisions.

If she still wants to keep the baby knowing where he stands on it - perfect. If she decides that since he doesn't want to be involved at all, and she doesn't want to go it all alone and has no one else to help raise the kid - then let's hope she found out early so she can terminate the pregnancy as soon as possible.

[–]IHaveSalesQuestions12 points 4 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

I’m sorry, did you just say women should be compensated for duress during pregnancy? You think a man should pay a woman for carrying a child? Y’all and your victim mentality. 2021 just gets weirder and weirder.

[–]ruRIP 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]bluehorserunning -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]CentralAdmin 11 points12 points13 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]bluehorserunning 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]drewcer 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]bluehorserunning 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]drewcer 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]bluehorserunning 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]bluehorserunning 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AtomicMGTOW 10 points11 points12 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

A woman having an abortion or being pregnant is her choice.

Telling men to get a vasectomy requires surgery and is very expensive to undo and isn't always reliable. Further to that, no doctor is going to give her vasectomy to any male that's under 30, especially if he doesn't have children yet. Are you really suggesting that a boy entering puberty should go and get a vasectomy before he starts having sex at what like 13 14 15?

A female however can go and get birth control pills or one of a dozen easy/cheap (if not free) options Of course you make a fair point about condoms. But men basically have three choices for birth control... Vasectomy, abstinence, condoms. Abstinence isn't going to happen, we've already covered vasectomies, and Men hate condoms, plenty of women do also. And women's birth control options are much more reliable than condoms provided that she takes the pill on time. Then there's the shot, IUD, diaphragms and spermicide and more.

The argument that men and women have relatively equal access to easy cheap reliable birth control is bullshit. And if a woman is so concerned about pregnancies or abortion because of the physical toll that they take on the body, it certainly seems easier to avail herself of one or more of the options she has it her disposal. None of which are permanent, none of which require cutting open your body.

I can't wait for the day that men have access to easy cheap effective birth control. Especially if it came in the form of a shot or a pill. I'm sure you and others like you are nodding their heads right now thinking that would be a great idea. But folks like you don't pay attention to the long-term effects of men being able to fully control their part in reproduction.

Maybe young women will think it's a good idea. There's less responsibility and therefore accountability for her which they love. But when women hit that Epiphany phase and the baby rabies start to kick in, they're going to lose their minds.

The attempts to shame and guilt men will amplify "men are so immature they don't want to grow up and have babies they just want to keep having sex like they're teenagers without any responsibilities"

Women will do everything in their power to limit men's access to birth control. And if he lies to her and tells her that he's not taking birth control, I can see some accusations of r@pe based around the idea that she consented on the condition that she had the chance to get pregnant. That she didn't consent to having sex that couldn't produce a baby. For real. This will happen.

In Arthur schopenhauer essay 'On Women' he states:

"She pays the debt of life not by what she does but by what she suffers—by the pains of child-bearing, care for the child, and by subjection to man, to whom she should be a patient and cheerful companion."

Full text here: http://www.theabsolute.net/misogyny/onwomen.html

This is exactly what you're doing... Complaining about how you suffer and expecting to be compensated for it in some way even though you're in full control of it in the modern era. Back in schopenhauer's time there was no birth control pills.

Although your argument is valid it is of little value. Whining about the suffering you go through based on a choice that you were heavily involved in is not something most reasonable people consider.

If a man gets drunk and rides his bike home and crashes and breaks a rib, no one cares. He did it to himself right? He made an active choice to get drunk and ride his bike.

You're making an active choice to NOT doing something.. ie: take full control and autonomy over your own birth control. Don't depend on somebody else if you're so worried about what you might go through/suffer because you chose not to protect yourself.

The hypocrisy of the strong and independent woman playing damsel and holding somebody else responsible when things don't go her way is so outrageous I can't help but laugh.

[–]vegville 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]LiLZ9061 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]ruRIP -3 points-2 points-1 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Okay so we have established here that men and women have access to birth controls right? Good.

Are you really suggesting that a boy entering puberty should go and get a vasectomy before he starts having sex at what like 13 14 15?

Not at all. However, the boy should know better than to engage in sexual activities without condoms on. Let's not excuse poor decision making on a guys part and expect a woman to be "in full control" as you put it, which is another factor I shall be addressing.

A female however can go and get birth control pills or one of a dozen easy/cheap (if not free) options

You have an extremely limited view of female birth control so let me educate you on this. Yes, she can but let's talk about the health aspects of the morning after pills. It fucks up a woman's entire period cycle. It's why it's recommended to never take them more than once over the course of 2-3 months. Morning after is NOT birth control it is for mistakes that might've happened. Birth control has the same issues, a woman's body might quite literally reject a BC and have quite negative effects such as rapid weight gain or loss, pre disposition to certain medical conditions etc.

Besides, you're taking things out of context. This is not shifting responsibility onto men but encouraging BOTH to take adequate measures and speaking facts of its how and why. And if a boy/teen/man whoever tf, wants to have unprotected sex it is absolutely unfair to put the burden onto women to alter her entire bodily cycles and health for his 5 minutes of pleasure. Again, I iterate, BOTH need to take adequate measures and most women do in comparison to men, BC fails, condoms fail, fuck even IUDs fail and comes at the risk of ectopic pregnancies which is massively risky. The only surefire way a man can ensure it not happening is getting snipped or of course not engaging in unprotected sex and even if they do least pulling out.

it certainly seems easier to avail herself of one or more of the options she has it her disposal. None of which are permanent, none of which require cutting open your body.

Considering my personal experience and 90% of women around me, NO. We do not owe our physical health, mental health, bodily changes that might make us gravely unhealthy (rapid weight changes were observed majorly during BC pills and worsening mental health is definitely a side effect esp when someone may already display even mild symptoms of anxiety, depression) just for a man to ejaculate inside. Given, it isn't ideal for a man to get snipped either. I'd say I'm more of an advocate for safe sex. After all, if you're a man and you're set at avoiding becoming a parent you'd take all efforts to avoid it no?

Whining about the suffering you go through based on a choice that you were heavily involved in is not something most reasonable people consider.

LOLOLOL. I'd suggest you go back up and re read everything. I must laugh at the suggestion of "whining" women when this whole thread is essentially men whining over avoiding responsibility for the pregnancy they BOTH cause and not having control over what a woman does with HER body afterwards.

[–]mackenzie013_02 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]AtomicMGTOW 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

We understand that there can be side effects. I'm sure there are other birth control options for you besides the pill. The copper IUD, for example, is not hormonal birth control

You and the person you are replying to are relying on a bunch of these outlier situations. Most people don't have these problems. It's unfortunate that you do... But just because something could cause a problem it doesn't mean it will.

This is yet another demonstration of how poor women are at risk assessment. Condoms are up to 88% reliable. Most of the birth control available to women is up to 99%. So you talk to your doctor and you figure out which one to try first. you monitor for any problems. You might have to change.

I think it's hilarious how a woman will go to a psychiatrist and try this drug and that drug and this drug and that drug trying to find the right one and they all have side effects. But when it comes to birth control apparently all that effort just goes out the f****** window. Or is it just that it when it comes to the need to be right all of that s*** goes out the window and you focus on the potential side effects. I'll say it again: potential.

Do you know what a potential side effect is of not taking control of your reproductive faculties: BABIES!

Seems to me that a lot of women complain about how difficult it is and hard on their bodies for 9 months and then raising a baby that men are just so f****** stupid and that we shouldn't be included in the conversation.

It's a lot easier to look into some birth control. My god... It's like talking to block of wood.

What about the risks of someone cutting a hole in your scrotum and hacking away at your vas deference and then cauterizing it. Apparently there's no risk there??? You people are a joke. I have no idea why I keep coming back here. Most of you are either stupid or disingenuous or a real good blend of both.

All you use is sign language. Shame insults guilt and the need to be right.

[–]mackenzie013_02 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

..never claimed that there’s no other options than hormonal brith control pills. We use condoms as we’re ok with the % effectiveness.

Women having birth control related side effects aren’t outliers as the % is quite a bit higher than what would be the definition of an outlier. Yes - every medicine comes with side effects. The fact that other drugs have side effects doesn’t make birth-control pill suddenly not have side effects or that is not worth talking about. The pills are actually given out fairly liberally, not assessing risks that follow down the line after decades of consuming them. Most women will go through multiple different ones (according to my doctors), before finding an adequate fit.

I don’t know how fucked up the country you’re in is, but where I’m from it’s incredibly difficult to go see a psychiatrist and try any medication for mental health. So no, women (or men) aren’t just going and trying out meds for gigs.. Taking medicine for your brain to function properly comes with a much higher benefit (hence allowing for more risk) vs taking pills to be able to fuck someone without a condom.

[–]StrengthAndHealth26M 15 points16 points17 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]CentralAdmin 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Why is no one speaking about the physical aspects of either an abortion or pregnancy on women?

Everyone does. There are features and profiles on this shit everywhere else. The issue is including men in the discussion. Why is it okay to take their money while telling them they have no choice? They go to jail if they cannot even afford to pay.

See, no one talks about the violation of his bodily rights. A woman can rape a boy, get pregnant and still force him to pay child support. If anyone forced a woman to give birth and made her pay it would be seen as inhumane. But boys and men? Who cares!

That's one of the main reasons why men don't get to have a say in it. Both of it, pregnancy or abortion affect only the woman and her body.

No one is saying she should or shouldn't get the abortion. Do not strawman the argument. They are saying offer men a "paper" abortion. This does not affect a woman's decision to abort or be a parent. She is welcome to be a mom! But he may choose not to be a dad and they can go their separate ways. If a woman can kill her unborn child or even abandon her child under safe haven laws, why can a man not financially abort or refuse to get involved?

A man gets to make the decisions about his own, get a vasectomy if he really doesn't want kids that bad or put a damn condom on.

True. But the same could be said of women.

The core of the issue is not that she may or may not be a mom. It is that she is forcing someone else to bank roll her choices. She has the power to decide if he has to be a parent or not beyond contraception. She has so many ways to avoid pregnancy and motherhood including abortions and legal abandonment. He does not have those choices. He is at her mercy.

But he really can not expect to DICTATE if a woman has to go through either abortion or pregnancy.

No one is saying he should stop her from having an abortion. They are saying he should have a choice about whether he wants to be a dad or not.

His freedom of choice ended while he chose to ejaculate inside.

This is the problem. He could be raped and have that freedom taken from him and he would still have to pay for it. If we are okay with women getting child support from the minors they raped, something is wrong. Women have a ridiculous amount of power when they can make their victims pay.

But let's say he chose to cum in her. Should we apply your principle then a woman should have no choice in whether she gets to be a mom or not the second she chose to have a man ejaculate in her. How would women feel if their only choices were hysterectomies, condoms and abstinence? Imagine they were forced to carry to term because abortions were outlawed and men got to make them pay for having children. It would be barbaric right?

and be responsible with where you stick your dick in.

Women have so many ways to avoid pregnancy and even have the power to force men to pay for children they may not want.

But when a man cums inside of a woman it is not her fault? How can someone who has so many choices be held less accountable than someone who has far more limited choices?

I mean, a boy can decide to abstain from sex and it just takes one asshole teacher or family friend to take that from him. Surely we need to change the laws if this is what is happening.

[–]LaPrimaVeraWITCH 12 points13 points14 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]ruRIP 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]LaPrimaVeraWITCH 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ruRIP 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]kharris333 -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]LaPrimaVeraWITCH 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]kharris333 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]PINKFLOYD24 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]healththrow345 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ErrendeEbecee 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link

[–]PsychologicalPlay235 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (20 children) | Copy Link

[–]ErrendeEbecee 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[–]PsychologicalPlay235 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]ErrendeEbecee 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]PsychologicalPlay235 10 points11 points12 points 4 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]ErrendeEbecee 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]PsychologicalPlay235 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]ErrendeEbecee 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]PsychologicalPlay2355 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Moolg860 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]PsychologicalPlay2353 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Moolg860 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]PsychologicalPlay2353 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Moolg862 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]PsychologicalPlay2352 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Moolg860 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]PsychologicalPlay2352 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Moolg862 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]PsychologicalPlay2351 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]bluehorserunning 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ruRIP 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Let's "ASSUME" for argument's sake, you are right though am pretty sure you're pulling this out your incel arse. Anyways, let's talk. Maybe a woman may not give af about their fetuses. Maybe they do. Even so, the process of abortion does have huge toll on the female physique. Never had to go through this personally but I've taken care of friends who were going through abortions. One of them, with pills. The physical toll on it was enormous. Her hormones being whack cause of it sent her into depressive spirals. Not to mention the physical PAIN. The constant bleeding out. Fainting spells due to the pain. As for other invasive procedures of abortions? Well, how'd you fancy having a vacuum suck your entire uterus out? The trauma that comes out of it. LOL, go back to incel forums and come here when you have facts to argue with kiddo.

[–]ErrendeEbecee 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ruRIP 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]HKPiax 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]upalse0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Beneneb -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]Beneneb 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Beneneb 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]CentralAdmin 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Beneneb 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]M155_50ph13 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Razzmatazz_1751 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (63 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheSmallerGambler 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (30 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Razzmatazz_17510 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheSmallerGambler3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Razzmatazz_17511 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheSmallerGambler2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Razzmatazz_17511 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheSmallerGambler2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Razzmatazz_17511 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Well ya cause the embryo is in her body developing into a human . However once it's born it's both individuals responsibility that helped create it .

Sex at it's core is about reproduction . Yes it's a bonding experience too . However if you are not using every form of birth control , meaning pills , condom. Pull out method etc , you then technically are doing everything you can to get pregnant or get someone pregnant . Millions plus soldiers you release at the end and the woman accepts them , you give them willingly . So yea the end result , procreating . No matter the decisions , the end result is a human that must be cared for if born. And the discussion you can take it and wrap it up in any little red ribbon you want but if that human being is born and breathing on this Earth it has financial needs and if it carries half your chromosomes you are going to be responsible for it because it's not up to us taxpayers to take care of your situation.

[–]TheSmallerGambler2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Razzmatazz_17511 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheSmallerGambler1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Razzmatazz_17511 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheSmallerGambler1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Razzmatazz_17511 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheSmallerGambler1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Razzmatazz_17511 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheSmallerGambler1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Razzmatazz_17511 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheSmallerGambler1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Razzmatazz_17511 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheSmallerGambler1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Razzmatazz_17511 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheSmallerGambler1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Razzmatazz_17511 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheSmallerGambler1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Razzmatazz_17511 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheSmallerGambler1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Razzmatazz_17511 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheSmallerGambler1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Razzmatazz_17511 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheSmallerGambler1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 26 points27 points28 points 4 years ago (31 children) | Copy Link

[–]PINKFLOYD24 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (30 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 21 points22 points23 points 4 years ago* (29 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Razzmatazz_1751 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]manfrom-nantucket 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Razzmatazz_1751 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Warchief_Ripnugget 10 points11 points12 points 4 years ago (19 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Razzmatazz_1751 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Warchief_Ripnugget 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]AvatarReiko 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Warchief_Ripnugget 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Razzmatazz_1751 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]manfrom-nantucket 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Ok_Razzmatazz_17511 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]UrFoodMolestedMyNoserainbow pills- a full course meal. 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]manfrom-nantucket 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]UrFoodMolestedMyNoserainbow pills- a full course meal. 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Warchief_Ripnugget 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]UrFoodMolestedMyNoserainbow pills- a full course meal. 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Warchief_Ripnugget 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]UrFoodMolestedMyNose2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Warchief_Ripnugget3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I mean, the scenario we are talking about is man and woman have sex. Woman gets pregnant. Woman wants to keep it, man doesn't. Woman keeps it anyway and has the state force man to pay child support.

She knows that he doesn't want the kid and thus won't be present in their life.

Just because people intentionally make a decision and wanted to do so, it doesn't mean that it isn't a mistake. I could decide to eat an entire cake and like it, still a mistake.

Yes, it is possible that they didn't know each other before having sex, but if so, then it is automatically a mistake on both of their parts. Casual sex is always a mistake because of the possibility of stds and pregnancy...

The woman intentionally bringing a child into this world with one parent present has always been and will always be a mistake regardless of intent. If she understands the consequences it will have on the child, then she is not only irresponsible and short-sided, but incredibly selfish and honestly quite evil.

[–]UrFoodMolestedMyNose0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Warchief_Ripnugget2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]manfrom-nantucket2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]PINKFLOYD24 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]PINKFLOYD24-1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheJim665 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]AvatarReiko2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]antonio_aurelio 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Diamond-BreathPastilla Rosa💋 9 points10 points11 points 4 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]drweenis 15 points16 points17 points 4 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

If your argument is that the man could have avoided pregnancy by using better birth control or getting a vasectomy, that is also true for the woman. It’s not a good argument, because nobody in their right mind is going to tell a woman to get her tubes tied simply to avoid accidental pregnancy. Why? Because we cannot reasonably expect people (men or women) to live their lives prepared for the worst by surgically altering their bodies, especially if they would like to have a child one day when they are ready.

A child is half of each parent, and so the decision to raise a child emotionally and financially should also be equal. Because the woman has the freedom of choice to keep or abort the child, she should also have the freedom of consequences for those actions if the father does not agree.

What if the dad wants the child but the mom wants to abort? He gets no say, which people rarely discuss. What if the dad doesn’t want the child but the mom does? Still no say. It is the woman’s body, so it is ultimately the woman’s choice. We accept this as a society, and so we should also be willing to accept that if the man’s choice is removed from the process, he should at least get the choice to remove himself from the process as well.

[–]VastlyVainVanityVirtue Pill 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]zyramain69 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]IHaveSalesQuestions1 points 4 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

It’s a real circle jerk in here. Misandrists unite!!! You vasectomies aren’t always reversible right?

Would you tell your son to get a vasectomy at 18?

[–]silent36 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]silent36 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]GreaterThanOrEqual2U1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]GreaterThanOrEqual2U1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]GreaterThanOrEqual2U1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]radicalmeasure 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]totes-not-angels-fan 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]IntolerantSoul573 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago* (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]upalse 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mark_Freednah nah nah c'mon 11 points12 points13 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]IntolerantSoul573 -3 points-2 points-1 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]bluehorserunning -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AquaChipChad Catcher -5 points-4 points-3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]AntiHypergamist 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Beneneb 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Scarypaperplates 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lonely_23_19971 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Anonymous44_441 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]wigsnatcher421 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Jimithyashford1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]AnaAnonsDiary1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Dry-Finance1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Here's what I think about this. (I ended up talking as if to a man who got a woman pregnant, I don't know why I did it)

First of all, it's not 100% your responsibility. By taking actual care of the child the woman is taking much more responsibility than you giving a paycheck once a month.

Furthermore, there's two sides.

Either you had sex with a woman who is against abortion. In that case, while she didn't want to be a mother, you made her one anyway and need to take responsibility. And like I said, it's not 100% your responsibility, because she's actually taking care of the child which is more of a burden than an alimony check.

Unless she's giving it up for adoption, in which case you don't owe her anything. And if you want to be its father, you can adopt it. I think.

Or you had sex with a woman who is not against abortion, that doesn't believe the fetus has right to live, or at least that it's right to live doesn't override her right to bodily autonomy. In this case, if she doesn't want this burden that she didn't ask for, you can't reasonably expect her to deal with it for 9 months completely derailing her life just because you want it. A horrible analogy would be planting a tree in your neighbour's backyard and expecting him to protect it until you can gather its fruit. He doesn't need to care. He can either demand you pay for whatever the tree needs to grow, or he can just cut it out.

[–]OG_walrus1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]WomenHavItHarder1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]LadyM2 -4 points-3 points-2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AvatarReiko 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]WhoAmIEven2 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Think_Climate_1303 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]houstongradengineer -3 points-2 points-1 points 4 years ago (119 children) | Copy Link

[–]OG_walrusSpace Chad[S] 10 points11 points12 points 4 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]UrFoodMolestedMyNoserainbow pills- a full course meal. -5 points-4 points-3 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]UrFoodMolestedMyNoserainbow pills- a full course meal. 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]UrFoodMolestedMyNoserainbow pills- a full course meal. 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 16 points17 points18 points 4 years ago (108 children) | Copy Link

[–]PINKFLOYD24 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]PINKFLOYD24-1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]6 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Beneneb0 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Beneneb1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Beneneb1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]CatchPhrazeMaster Of Memeology -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (93 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 13 points14 points15 points 4 years ago (84 children) | Copy Link

[–]CatchPhrazeMaster Of Memeology 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (33 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (32 children) | Copy Link

[–]CatchPhrazeMaster Of Memeology 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 10 points11 points12 points 4 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]CatchPhrazeMaster Of Memeology 5 points6 points7 points 4 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]CatchPhraze1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]CatchPhraze3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]5 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]CatchPhraze1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]4 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]CatchPhraze1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]6 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]CatchPhraze1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]4 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]CatchPhraze1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]CatchPhraze1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheWolfGirl231 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]UrFoodMolestedMyNoserainbow pills- a full course meal. 0 points1 point2 points 4 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]UrFoodMolestedMyNoserainbow pills- a full course meal. -1 points0 points1 point 4 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 4 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]UrFoodMolestedMyNose2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]UrFoodMolestedMyNose2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]UrFoodMolestedMyNose3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]UrFoodMolestedMyNose2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]3 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]UrFoodMolestedMyNose2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]GreaterThanOrEqual2U1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DreamsOfWishesNo Pill -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (25 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 8 points9 points10 points 4 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]DreamsOfWishesNo Pill 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 7 points8 points9 points 4 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]DreamsOfWishesNo Pill 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]TheJim66Red God-Emperor of Slut Country 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]DreamsOfWishes1 point 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]TheJim662 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 4 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]StrengthAndHealth26M 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 4 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DreamsOfWishesNo Pill -2 points-1 points0 points 4 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]DreamsOfWishesNo Pill 3 points4 points5 points 4 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 4 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]DreamsOfWishes2 points 4 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link