I don't think I can do this.

frogma · 2012-01-17T13:35:00+00:00

Like BetaMail said, use what works for you and disregard the rest. You haven't been reading enough if you think there's only one way to do things. Instead of asserting dominance or whatever, just focus on giving value. Being assertive isn't bad, it's just the opposite of letting people walk all over you. That's only bad when you're a dick about it. You also don't need to act like you're the center of the universe. The point of a phrase like that is to build your confidence/body language and shit. Disregard the phrase, focus on building confidence in whatever way you can.

And stop making stupid excuses. Saying hi to a girl doesn't require any of the "immoral" shit you mentioned. Carrying on a conversation doesn't require it either. Even having sex doesn't require any of that shit, but being a leader with a lot of confidence can definitely help. Just do it, in your own way, and see what happens. Then do it more, and more, until you get decent at it. Then do it even more. If your mindset isn't good, you'll know, and you can work on improving it.

meltmyface · 2012-01-17T14:00:30+00:00

This has nothing to do with asserting your will over another person. Unless you are naturally a dickhead, most women are going to see right through your fabricated persona, which means you have to be GENUINELY INTERESTED. You have to be the guy, not just play the part, it's a lifestyle, and it emcompasses who you are when you are talking to women, but even moreso it is about who you are when you are not with women. Do you have friends? Hobbies? Are you healthY? Do you groom yourself and practice proper hygeine? Do you eat well? Are you educated, seasoned, ecclectic? Do you have interesting thoughts and ideas? All these things will improve the chances of women enjoying your compay.

Take Bradley Cooper for example. Women fucking love him, and do you think it's because he's a sociopath who manipulates women into doing what he wants all the while he is cackling to himself like an evil villain? Doubtful. He's confident, sweet, calm, interesting and he even speaks french perfectly. Can you imagine how horny a woman would get if you could speak perfect french?

This has nothing to do with faking who you are and everything to do with with improving who you are in every aspect; health, confidence, knowledge and conversational skill. You don't play games with women, you talk to them, ask them questions, respond intelligently and sprinkle some banter in here and there.

Who you are right now is the same person who will be approaching women, you just need to improve that person so that you aren't afraid and the conversation will come naturally. I feel like this whole thing is just you making up excuses so that you don't have to confront your fears.

No, I did not downvote you. I upvoted you so that more people will see this and give you the advice-ass-kicking that you desperately need.

Kozbot · 2012-01-17T14:05:21+00:00

You seem to have a very negative outlook on simply taking the initiative to approach women and ask them out...

Anomalyzero · 2012-01-17T14:43:05+00:00

What you're doing isn't treating everyone equally. What you're doing is placing yourself below everyone else. Being alpha isn't about imposing your will on anyone. It's about standing up for yourself and not being ashamed of who you are.

Watch David DeAngelo's videos on inner game.

If you watch all 12 parts and still think picking up women is all about being a "domineering prick" and you think your best bet is to never talk to women and hope for the best, well, enjoy your life alone.

afcanonymous · 2012-01-17T14:54:56+00:00

Talk about getting the wrong message.

I would like someone to kill this man. Hes always around since hes my roomate's best friend. I simply can't take the advice that you should assert your will over others, assume and act as if you are the center of the universe and be a domineering prick. It is against everything I feel a human being should be. It sickens me when others do it and I can't bring myself to do it to anyone else.

Sounds like you're jealous a lil bit.

Have you heard about giving value?

I was taught by my parents to respect women as complete equals

Respect them as equals! Love them! Embrace them for all their tragic flaws, but don't ever put them on a pedestal. They're not any better or worse than us, but understand that they're different! They have different emotional triggers, and that they are motivated very differently as well.

Hopefully I can meet a woman who isn't attracted to the alpha male nonsense

You want to meet a true alpha male? It's not the "domineering prick" who you hate. An alpha male in college is not the same alpha male elsewhere. You still need to be confident, personable, add value, and self validated, and have high self esteem. NOTHING in your post suggests that you have these qualities. On the other hand this guy has some of these qualities but he's a dick. You can have these qualities without being a dick.

I won't ever assert my will over another human being because I believe it is immoral

It's not immoral, I guarantee that you do this anyway without realizing it. Every time you stick up for yourself, or assert yourself. Ever disagreed with friends over where you should eat? Have you ever gotten your way before while making decisions?

The world is not full of nice people who are subject to reason and logic. People are emotional and selfish. Most of them have poor self esteem and anger and resentment. They're far too interested in getting what they think they need (validation from the wrong people, money, toys, etc.)

Instead of despairing over this (and being incredibly frustrated with someone that you're clearly envious of) why don't you try this:

Learn how to communicate clearly and confidently (i.e. body language/vocal tonality)
Learn how to add value
Make new friends
Learn to be dominant without being a dick (it's not that hard)

Chill out, man. It's not that hard. Any time you feel anxiety in a social situation, just pull out your smartphone and write down what's going through your mind.

otakuman · 2012-01-17T17:12:42+00:00

I won't ever assert my will over another human being because I believe it is immoral.

I've been waiting so long to answer an argument like this.

EVERYONE, every single person in the world is fighting to assert their will over others. Religious leaders assert their will over the faithful - to the point of making them deny scientific laws. Bankers assert their will over the people, and the people try to assert their will over bankers.

In the beginnings of the 20th century, the people in russia fought to assert their will over the ruling class and dethrone them, but then they were fooled by the communists and their own will was crushed.

Everytime you want to do something, either right or wrong, you're asserting your will over others. You cannot live isolated from the world, and pretend to live a happy life, when others are pushing THEIR will over you even when you ignore it.

You think women don't push their will over men? It is women who put themselves in a pedestal because they're confident that men will fight OVER them.

Even by obeying the PUA rules and doing what will get you women, you're still submitted to women's will, because that's what they force you to do. Trust me, we'd all love it if women decided to step off their pedestals and start choosing men without flinging their shit tests on us - as equals, with no barriers. But they don't, and that's the whole point of seduction.

Why does this happen? I have no fucking idea, maybe it's genetic, and maybe it's the women's liberation movement, or maybe it's a side effect of the western society.

Women will be seduced by capable men, and they'll like it, whether you accept it or not. The point is, are you willing to submit yourself to their whims and hope that fate will give you your soulmate like magic? Those who have trusted fate are now gone, or living a miserable life.

Let me quote a phrase from Machiavelli that shocked me when I read it:

"Fate is a woman, and she must be beaten and dominated" (Of course, I'd take away the beating part, if we are to understand the historical context of it).

But it shocked me, wanna know why? Because he painted fate as an active force that is fighting AGAINST YOU. I had always trusted God, and fate, and hoped that my soulmate would arrive as a casual encounter. It never happened.

I'm not saying you should lie about yourself, women can smell lies and anxiousness. Seduction is a game of wits, and women set traps so you could fall on them and then they'll discard you for being unworthy.

"Be yourself" - I believe in this, but I also beleive in "don't be an idiot". Don't bring up your problems and lack of confidence to the table, they're bad cards. Instead, try to make her like you, and little by little let her know you more, if you find HER worthy.

If she wants to have sex with you, it's her choice. Some women want to dominate their men, others want a prince, and others want a master to dominate them. Don't think this is a magical art where you can practically hypnotise women into giving you what they don't want. Just as you want sex, they want it too, but social pressures (and here we come to the battles of wills) have been imposed on them: You'll look like a whore if you do this, you must not do that, what will others think about it, etc.

This isn't an ideal world. Adapt, or die.

EDIT: Also, you have your own moral code and personality. Don't think seduction means cloning a master of seduction. Just like videogames, you have certain abilities, skills and qualities. Seduction is about using them to their full potential. If you're not good at singing, don't try to be a singer. If you're not good at talking, try exploiting your dancing skills. Maybe you're good at reading, you can talk about the things you've read. Maybe your body language is terrible, but your gaze can kill. Use it.

gxslim · 2012-01-17T16:15:33+00:00

I think you are confusing seduction with rape.

There is nothing amoral about being a charismatic leader.

MyFirstSeddit · 2012-01-17T13:28:14+00:00

I agree with BetaMail on this. What is it exactly you find problematic? I would say I am a nice person, similar to yourself. All I've really picked up from seduction is how to be more confident in myself and how to talk to people. It has worked wonders. If there are things you do not need agree with, then don't.

The great thing about seduction is that you have to personalise it for yourself. If you did everything said here to the letter, you would probably be an arrogant arsehole. It is definitely not one size fits all.

chillbrodude · 2012-01-17T16:01:25+00:00

Dude bro man, I don't really buy into most of this shit either - not my style I guess - but I think you're doing it wrong.

I simply can't take the advice that you should assert your will over others, assume and act as if you are the center of the universe and be a domineering prick. It is against everything I feel a human being should be.

There's a big difference between "asserting your will" and strong-arming other people. I once thought more as you do but then I gradually realized that I wasn't getting the things I wanted in life, and took this lesson from it - if I don't look out for my own interests, no one will. Since this realization, I've tried to be better about doing that. I may try and impose my will on others when it's necessary, but they are always free to reject me. Similarly, if I find myself at cross purposes with someone, I may try and brush them aside, but they are free to try and stop me. Furthermore, I expect that they will, because it's what I'd do in their place - if they don't, that's not my problem.

As far as I can tell, this is all PUA dudes are advocating, both with women and elsewhere. It's not "Impose your will forcibly upon women and they will sleep with you," its more like "Don't be afraid to make your will and intentions known to women and pursue it with them, and you'll find they follow along more than you'd think."

I was taught by my parents to respect women as complete equals.

So was I - and I think I do. As a part of this, I expect women, as capable free thinking individuals, to reject me if they find me unappealing. Like with the previous part - it's not about strongarming, its about sticking up for what you want. Women can take care of themselves bro; I suggest you learn to do the same.

BetaMail · 2012-01-17T13:13:38+00:00

So?

Do you want us to stop trying to improve ourselves?

Are there specific techniques you think are 'morally wrong'?

Why don't you keep reading and only use techniques and advice that fits your moral compass?

RedErin · 2012-01-17T14:33:52+00:00

I would like to see some examples of what you find offensive on here?

everything this reddit promotes, alpha, dominant, aggressive

Nope! Seddit's definition of alpha just means confident it doesn't mean that you assert your will over others. Also we promote assertiveness, not aggressiveness. There's a huge difference.

You came in here with some assumptions that just aren't true. Do some more reading and you'll see that. I recommend Tofu's Inner Game Posts

rmbarnes · 2012-01-17T13:34:28+00:00

You don't really have to be domineering to get laid. The need to be alpha is overemphasized on seddit.

Don't focus on getting other people to do what you want them to do. Focus on knowing what you want at all times an going after it. What you have to realize is that many men (and especially women) want and need a leader in many situations.

MetaSnow · 2012-01-17T17:06:51+00:00

Almost all of the advice here, except the non-constructive, is very good. I look forward to your reply to some of it. Here are some of my observations.

-You are 19, and I assume have just finished your first semester of college. You need to chill out, I did not bloom socially until second semester my junior year. You have so much more time to be taking advantage of awesome knowledge I wish I had. There are some on this board who did not hit that realization until late their late 20s. Also, it seems long but 2 months just lurking is pretty short. Seddit will back me on this.

-Awesome on respecting women, the same values were instilled in me. This IS NOT the problem. Women love socializing. Some of them love romanticism. Way more than you would expect love sex. What about this advice do you hate? I'll get to your friend in a bit.

-You perceive this person to be representative of the Seddit community, and I bet you he is not at all. You should not assert yourself OVER others. Just assert yourself and let people think what they will. This is outcome independence. You should only assume centric status to boost your own confidence, not put others down. Define domineering prick. Seddit promotes dominance, and I fucking guarantee the majority of women you talk to will too (in event planning, general socializing, and sex). A year ago (AFC times for me) I was dating an angry feminist who said I did not take enough initiative, I shit you not.

Read on giving value and confidence. You have such a skewed perception off dominance; I feel like you are talking of Nazi propaganda versus being confident with social groups.

-To what degree do you refuse assertiveness over others? History and great successful people of today will tell you there are leaders and followers; if you ain't one, you are the other.

-One final note. Even if you still disagree with every point on assertion, you just need to read more and approach more (which bring sup another question, how much are you implementing seduction?). Seduction is tailored to what you want and believe. You should not compromise yourself. I don't know about others, but I honestly want you to be better. Trust me, I've been "hoping" for a girl for a long ass time. It is not a fun life. Seduction changed my life for the better. I strongly consider you stick with it and keep reading and doing. It is not pretentious douches who think they are kings over everyone else getting women all the time. It is guys who simply assert their own awesomeness and let women know what they want (be it a ONS, LTR, FWB, FZ - whatever!).

Godspeed, my good sir.

JRAlpha · 2012-01-17T15:08:10+00:00

I felt much the same way. When I discovered pickup I thought that a) it probably doesn't work and b) if it does work it is immoral.

But I kept reading, I suspect because I thought that if I'm gonna hate something I should give it the courtesy of understanding it.

What salvaged it, for me, in a moral sense is the fact that you are taught that some women will simply not be into you and that is alright. If this was a foolproof method of getting any woman, even an unwilling one, to be with you I would not use it. But rejection is integral part of pickup and soon you see rejection as a expression of her free will not to like you.

Secondly, if you posit that PUAs are manipulators you might have a case there. But if you posit that I am a manipulator I know you got no case there. I know that I could never hurt a woman or force her to do something she is against. Other PUAs might be misogynists but I know I am not. Therefore, I can trust myself to use this within the bounds of my moral code.

Thirdly, women enjoy a good pickup. Women want their prince of shiny armour to to sweep them off their feet and carry them off into a fairytale. Or if they don't want that they want casual sex. Our aims are compatible. Once you realise women are not tricked into having sex, they want it, you will see the light.

Lolleroni · 2012-01-17T17:33:46+00:00

I started college this past year and found I can't talk to people at all.

That's okay. We're here to try to encourage you.

I have been lurking here for the better part of a month now and I hate the large majority of the advice you give. I know someone who is the embodiment of everything this reddit promotes, alpha, dominant, aggressive etc. etc. Hes incredibly successful socially and with women.

Many people here are looking into just picking up women. I understand that you may dislike this kind of alpha behaviour, but it isn't the only way to "get" women. In fact, if you actually know seddit's purpose, it's not to pick up women. It's to improve yourself to a level where you can be completely confident and an alpha without even trying, because you know that you're so awesome that people are missing out on a chance to get to know you.

...be a domineering prick. It is against everything I feel a human being should be. It sickens me when others do it and I can't bring myself to do it to anyone else.

Sure, you can be a prick. You don't have to be. It's not written anywhere that you have to be a prick. Have you never considered that there are other ways to approach/seduce without being an ass? Seduction isn't about making yourself a prick or learning cheesy approach lines/tactics- it's about realizing what you need to improve about yourself so that you can become better with people as a whole. Just because it is called seduction doesn't mean that this subreddit is specifically meant for whichever sex you're interested, which brings me to

I came here wanting nothing more than to improve my skills with women to the point that I could talk to people and maybe secure a girlfriend if an appropriate candidate ever came along, but what I hear makes me sick.

If you want to do nothing more than improve your skills with women, then you just want to learn pickup. If you want to talk to more people, then that's completely different, but from your seemingly self-righteous statements, you assume that the only way that this community suggests picking up women is to full-on bull rush her with our immoral asshole-ness.

I've already mentioned it twice now, but that's not the purpose of this subreddit. If you just want sex, then you'll do whatever it takes to get into a girl's pants, but if you want the relationship, then you'll do whatever it takes to get to know her. Which one are you? You've already mentioned it yourself that you have trouble talking to people. That's honestly your own problem with anxiety approach. Look around- no one's stopping you from meeting people, and the girls that you want to be in a relationship in will not be attracted to that kind of "immoral" behaviour.

Stop trying to blame your own inhibitions any other circumstance other than yourself. You don't have to be an asshole to talk to anybody, and that's the stupidest thing I read today (thank God it's only 9:28 in the morning). You sound like you have some confidence issues, in which case you have a problem with your self-esteem. If you don't believe that you are a blessing to others and that others deserve a chance to get to know you, then you're not ready yet. If you have no sense of self-worth, then how can you get anybody to talk to you? Work on self-improvement and then, once you're aware that you're awesome, go meet some new people. If you can't carry a conversation at that point, then we'll give you advice on what to say, how to approach, and alpha mind games to play. You don't have to follow any advice shown here- just take what you need. It's just really insulting to everyone in this community when you force your preconceptions on people you don't understand.

EDIT: tl; dr Harden the fuck up.

only_an_egg · 2012-01-17T20:56:59+00:00

The most alpha guy I ever met was at Burning Man.

This guy was a beast - he had dreads down to his hips, a kilt, a cod piece, tattoos, piercings, all sorts of jewelry and TWO custom flasks (for different alcohols, of course). He was well read and well spoken and kind, and Confident. He had the highest standing of his 300 person crew, and gave a fuck about things that mattered. When he spoke, people listened. Women fauned over him.

When my buddy was going to Project Hollywood and taking lessons from Mystery, I felt what you do now.

I came to realize that strategy and social dynamics do not a man make, and also do not an asshole make. There are women who don't respond to this particular style of seduction. There are women who over-respond and turn YOU off.

What seduction and game really advocate is making yourself better so that you can be high value - but what does high value really mean? It means that the people around you truly enjoy your company and advertise you by word of mouth. It means you are a good person and do good works in your life. You are interesting in what you know and what you do. You're passionate about something, anything. You have the social support of people who love you.

This, and life, is partially about trying things to be happy. If having a girlfriend will make you happy, you'll have to meet girls to make it happen; just as if you want friends, you have to meet people to make friends happen. Seduction is a guide. It's up to you how to interpret it and apply it to your life.

averynicehat · 2012-01-17T16:38:02+00:00

Not with that attitude you can't. Your large-scale judgments, holier-than-thou aloofness and widespread generalization of a 40,000+ member subreddit as "sickening" and "immoral" aren't going to help you either. If you think improving your social skills and attractiveness to women is something that automatically correlates with immorality, then have fun stagnating. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Lanko · 2012-01-17T17:21:05+00:00

You don't seem to understand. You've got this idea in your head that it's about dragging the other person down.

You can be alpha without treating people like shit. Really all Alpha is is being a leader and Being confident in your self. Yes some people who play the game can only accomplish this by dragging other people down, but lets face it, girls notice that, and quality girls will stay far away from it.

Don't try to dominate people. Try to be a person people wish to follow.

Edit:

I was taught by my parents to respect women as complete equals.

Also, make sure you're ACTUALLY doing this. Most guys who think they're doing this are actually putting women up on pedestals. You need to make sure you can joke around with them and tease them when they fuck up just like an old friend, but still flirt with them and make them feel desired.

MadmanPoet · 2012-01-17T17:43:12+00:00

I work in sales and have learned to apply some PUA techniques to that. It isn't an assertion of my will over another's. It is a show of value. One of the things our monkey brain is hardwired to do is follow the leader, the Alpha, the most successful. This is biologically expressed as confidence and dominace. I wouldn't have a very long career if I kicked down a client's door, dropped my massive balls on the table, and then told them where to sign.

I am confident and very sure of myself, my company, and my products. I bring value a)with my confidence b) with my product (my ability to save the money on their insurance needs).

True, everything you read here can be used negatively. Sure. But so can hammers. You can build a house or you can crack a skull.

TheAverageRedditUser · 2012-01-17T19:18:01+00:00

OP is troll.

brygphilomena · 2012-01-17T19:47:35+00:00

Have you read the Game by Neil Strauss? It's one of my favorite books and has less to do about seduction than it has about building up who you are.

I personally feel that the whole seduction community is more about learning to be social with anyone and improving on your life. Sure there are parts about sex, but pretty much everything else applies to social interactions of all sorts.

Alpha is just one road to women and life in general. But it is by no means best. None of these tactics are. I see women as equal and that's the type of woman I like. When I talk to someone I try to get them to feel the same way I do. It may sound like I am dominating them, but if they don't feel that way, I don't force them. They are free to make their own choices.

For me, I use this community to become someone that people WANT to be around. Never to become someone that MAKES people spend time with him.

Mystery does a lot of magic and illusions while building social proof and value. He puts out an outwardly persona that makes people like him. Style is a mix of everything, but from what I read in The Game and what I've heard in his lectures is very laid back, but always willing to try something new. He has so many experiences that being who he is gets him friends and women. The end of The Game he wrote about how more than anything in this community, he got friends and enjoyed the idea of people coming together to better themselves.

The seduction community has those that vie for power and those that are out to enjoy life. It all depends on how you frame it in your mind. Your best bet if you want to go down this road is definitely to find the material that matches your morals and personality and develop on that. And remember, part of seeing women as equals is understanding their desires are not so different from men's. They want sex, companionship, and friendship too. You just have to navigate the maze to get to the outcome you want. And if you don't get there, not to get frustrated, but to try again with the next woman.

Mystery said that attraction is not a choice, and I wholeheartedly believe that. I believe that we should be attractive not just to potential mates, but to all women and men. Our friends should find us attractive. Because attraction isn't just about looks, its about personality.

Anomalyzero · 2012-01-18T02:40:12+00:00

[permanently deleted]

2012-01-19T04:07:48+00:00

A toast to OP for seeing through the insipid bullshit on Seddit.

It makes me happy.

2012-01-17T16:02:32+00:00

Might I suggest /r/ForeverAlone ?

wallz · 2012-01-17T19:51:01+00:00

OP is 19.

/thread

adriens · 2012-01-17T15:01:33+00:00

That's the male equivalent of a woman against make-up.

mq2thez · 2012-01-17T15:54:32+00:00

There will always be things in a subreddit that you don't agree with. Personally, I've found the most value in posts about inner "game". Like you, I was raised to treat women like equals -- and I do. However, I spent so long treating women as equals and failing to attract them that I began to believe that they were superior to me, that my personal value was based on their opinions of me. That sort of attitude leads to a downward spiral in just about anyone.

You know what the most valuable thing I've found in this subreddit has been? It hasn't been techniques, or strategies, or ways to make women swoon, or any of that stuff that I could never really see myself using. The most important thing I've found in Seddit is the sort of straight talk that helped me realize that basing my happiness on exterior forces will always make me dependent on them. I may ignore 80% of what I read here, but the posts and threads like this one are what I tend to truly pay attention to. I always knew in an abstract way that I had to value myself first, but the stuff I've read here has helped me regain a personal sense of worth based on internal factors, rather than external. I don't get into "state" because I want girls to be attracted to me; I get into "state", and stay that way, because at the end of the day, life is better when you're smiling.

iznou · 2012-01-17T17:29:44+00:00

I don't want anyone else to assert themselves over me

Well then you had better learn some game because people are gaming you and literally PROGRAMMING YOU every day, so you would do well to learn the art of communication, which is really all this is.

Remember "The meaning of a communication is the response it elicits," good luck and have fun!

chasingthevoid · 2012-01-17T19:30:44+00:00

I'm a woman and I feel a little violated by some of the content on sub-reddit at times . You're a (seemingly) good catch. As a female I do everything I can to avoid the tactics that are passed off a "good" advice around here. I would never want to be with a person who can view relationships as conquests.

2012-01-18T00:59:52+00:00

As a girl, I wanted to say thank you for having enough confidence to write a genuine and honest post that is more relatable than many of the recent posts. I wrote out an awesome reply on my phone but accidently deleted it. I wanted to say that it is in fact a good thing you so highly regard maintaining your values. Although I am not at a point in my life where I am interested in purely hooking up but I still read r/seduction. I find it interesting but also what I find that gets overlooked as it's mainly men looking to hookup is the importance of being a respectable man. Many girls can read into sometime who is true to himself and its an attractive trait. we take note of this and file it away for the future dating, hooking up, or just hanging out. Seduction/flirting are two sided coins. Yes, it can be valuable to be able to say "fuck it, she's just another girl" to help you move on and not get attached and deal with oneitus as we all get buuut its also important to realize girls can pick up on a guys insecurities covered up with "alpha male" douchiness and thus the guy in mind has higher chances of getting written off and loses any prospective chance with the girl.

I just want to support you and girls will see you are genuine and have a lot to offer. You can still win points with girls from being confident AND true to your values. In fact, likely since you said you were looking for a relationship and not just some tail I'd say you'll win in the long run. Seduction is not as simple as many of these posts seem to boil it down to. Have fun and don't get too caught up in all the steps of winning a girl over with..look for chemistry and you'll also find a genuine girl you can date and hook up with.

so-to-speak · 2012-01-17T13:35:17+00:00

I won't ever assert my will over another human being because I believe it is immoral.

Don't put the pussy on a pedestal. Women want a man who knows what he wants and is willing to take get it. Women like sex too, you're not respecting a woman by denying her a good time.

AFlatCap · 2012-01-17T19:45:53+00:00

[permanently deleted]

puaCurveBall · 2012-01-17T16:53:54+00:00

That's fine, not everyone deserves to reproduce.

Honestly I spend a lot of effort trying to help people on here, if you are unwilling then like im_a_rapist said, GTFO. I'd rather spend my time helping people who actually want it.

afkyle · 2012-01-17T14:57:01+00:00

being good with women does not necessitate being a domineering prick. if that seems like what is being preached here, you haven't read very much.

Krieger9 · 2012-01-17T15:19:22+00:00

How about just act confident, not a prick. Act like you believe in yourself, not better than everybody.

Lots of groups have alphas doesn't mean everybody else is not equal or less than. It's about being singly individual in your thinking and an initiator who takes responsibility for leading when needed.

Did I miss the articles about being a dick and not respecting women?

meowingtonphd · 2012-01-17T16:21:23+00:00

Someone said it before, if you're not cocky-funny, don't try to be. Basically just take from it what you will, even if it's just confidence.

PublicStranger · 2012-01-17T16:59:31+00:00

Take the advice here with a grain of salt. Adopt what will help you and reject the rest.

Just so you know, this is not one-size-fits-all. I'm a straight woman, and I see a lot of advice here that works on me (get hobbies, get some self-esteem, don't smother me, etc.) and I see a lot of advice here that makes me roll my eyes when I see it in the wild (showing attraction to other women, negging, making too many jokes, etc.).

Women are different, and different actions appeal to them. Think about the kind of woman you want to be with—then think about the kind of man such a woman would want to be with, and strive to be that man.

mrbrinks · 2012-01-17T17:12:14+00:00

Your issue is that you don't think of women as sexual beings, and thus feel 'dirty', as if you're tricking them into doing something that they don't want to do.

Go look at r/sex, r/gonewild, r/ladyboners or the numerous sexual fantasy threads on r/askreddit and then really ask yourself if women don't enjoy sex.

Stop feeling wrong about it, man.

SuperNorch · 2012-01-17T17:32:32+00:00

I believe this man deserves many up votes, due to the fact that he actually spoke his mind. I completely agree with him 100% because a person should be able to act themselves while not giving up what makes them unique,just so you can attract the opposite sex.

cowrecked · 2012-01-17T17:47:43+00:00

You've got the wrong mindset, man. None of this is TRICKING anyone into doing anything. The thing is, most girls LOVE IT when a guy takes charge and "asserts their will", e.g. is assertive and confident and not shy about what he wants. When you're making out with someone you've just met, the energy you both share is incredible, and fuels the passion for both people.

Now...if you're using the seduction techniques/mindset but you're telling girls you're interested in a relationship when you're really just looking to fuck, then you're doing it wrong. Being actually dishonest (not PLAYFUL, but dishonest) is a dick move. Plus that's not what seduction teaches anyway.

tl;dr There's nothing wrong with knowing what you want, being honest with yourself and your partner, and taking the steps to get it.

kazagistar · 2012-01-17T18:28:36+00:00

Please tell us exactly what parts up a standard pick up are "evil" and "disrespectful"? Is it walking up to a girl and talking about something? Is touching a girl without her explicit permission wrong for some reason? Is playing a verbal game which she enjoys wrong? Is informing her that you would be available and interested in sex evil? Is it wrong to work out and dress nice? Sure, I can see what the problem is with, say, outright lying about yourself or your intentions, but none of these things are inherently wrong, as far as I can see.

If your problem is with the very idea of pickup though, and don't like the idea of changing the way you act to be more attractive to women, then I am sorry that your cultural upbringing has so crippled your ability to face reality as it is.

2012-01-17T18:34:48+00:00

Tbh, I find some of the things said in here don't apply to where I'm from. The material here is quite Americanised and would not work where I live. Quite simply put, the culture is just not the same. So, it's all about taking what they say here and applying it to yourself. Although, I do find the general consensus of being a leader, taking charge of situations, being more confident and just being an interesting person and not a boring, awkward person quite refreshing and some of the things from this subreddit have really helped me a lot. Just my opinion though, you may agree, you may disagree, whatever. Just my 2 pence.

30vanquish · 2012-01-17T18:40:42+00:00

Assertive does not mean aggressive.
Nice guy/sticking up for oneself is attractive. Nice guy/being a pushover is not attractive.
Find the type of women into more of an equal view of the gender roles. For example, some hipsters don't like alphas because they like feminine aspects in their mates.
For conversations anywhere: say "Hi" and figure out if you two vibe. If not, next girl.

s-kmarti19 · 2012-01-17T19:04:28+00:00

You need to read more fiction, man. I'm serious. It will really help you with your inability to discern what is right, and useful and what is wrong and can be disregarded. Try The Unbearable Lightness of Being. Fiction will help you to understand that almost everyone in this world is far more porous, and flawed than what you perceive. You see, reading fiction improves your personality, and helps you become a better socializer, because it forces you to understand other people. Also, stop being Holden Caulfield. I'm sure you loved the book, but the fact of the matter is that he was a sniveling brat with a martyrdom complex, that inspired the Unabomber.

nycprowl · 2012-01-17T19:54:19+00:00

It's been said already but I'll just emphasize... you're looking at it wrong. My guess is you're NOT looking at women as equals, but as betters. Otherwise you would have NO issue going up to a woman and saying "hi, how are you, let's hang out".

But instead, you're putting these women ahead of you which is why you're having issues.

Everyone is going to have a different view. Personally I don't use any of the routines, negging, etc that I'm guessing you have a negative outlook on. I mostly came here to learn how to flirt again after coming out of a 7 year relationship, and realize... oh hey, women aren't so scary.

theanimalinstinct · 2012-01-17T20:25:42+00:00

I agree with you on some levels. Especially about this subreddit, and the "Alpha Male" myth. People who use archetypal behavioral patterns do so to appear to be a better choice to a 3rd party that doesn't have any intrinsic knowledge of any of the choices they're being presented with. However, using these archetypes as a personality anchor is probably the lowest form of male social interaction. One doesn't have to be domineering to be the "alpha male", and people that try to be domineering out of the need to appear as the alpha, are often the true "beta" (not that I agree with these terms).

However! I completely forget guys altogether, when it comes to dealing with the ladies. They're not who you're interested in, and they have nothing to do with the two of you. I just pick who I want to get to know, and talk to them.

As for treating women the way you want to be treated - wouldn't you like it if an attractive woman walked right up to you, introduced herself, was confident about who she was, was having a good time, held her own conversationally, and was funny, casually complimenting you, and at the right time, revealing what her intentions are with you sexually? I would. So that's how I try to act. I agree with you completely about treating them as equals, but let's face it. We're all horny, and pretending that's not what you're interested in at all is dishonest, and just means you need to get over that fear of rejection. Girls are flattered when you bring up sex, or ask them out, or anything along those lines, because it means they're doing it right. They're attractive. Even if they don't want to get with you, they don't think badly of you. Even if they do... who cares, really? At least you were honest, you boldly tried to get what you want, and you had fun while doing it.

TL;DR Have fun, and be honest about your intentions.

Cavedrew · 2012-01-17T20:25:46+00:00

I have a similar mentality. I've never wanted to manipulate others or be manipulated by others but the reality is simply this. Everyone, no matter how they think they act, is manipulating the world to their own worldview. Although I would agree with you ideally you are, in your own way, still trying to change the worldview of people that read your post. It's a weird fact, but it's true.

rpcrazy · 2012-01-17T20:55:45+00:00

You've definitely never watched David DeAngelo's stuff...If you think he's some sort of alpha male pig, you need to reevaluate what that word/phrase means to you. Good luck, keep learning, keep growing. Also, stop with the mightier-than-thou BS too

puapsyche · 2012-01-17T22:05:29+00:00

OP, I have a suggestion for you. Forget Mystery, forget all the terminology, forget acting like you are the center of the universe, forget being an alpha male. TRYING to act like all this is what gives the 'pick-up' community a bad name- the douchebags out there who wait to 'execute the technique of giving a compliment' etc. etc.

A lot of sleazy assholes give the 'pick-up artist' name the negative name that society sees it as. That's why a lot of men who are good with women keep on saying "you're not a pick-up artist, don't associate with being a pick-up artist." Real-life Hitch inspiration David Wygant says "there is no such thing as picking up women". You're basically looking at it the wrong way, you're getting the wrong messages. It's like someone below said, if it violates your moral compass, then don't do it! Standing up for yourself is good! Kicking that asshole out when he has put you down is good! So what if he has incredible social standing? My roommate freshman year had great social standing and he was an absolute prick, female friends of ours that I was talking to at the end of the year said that there was probably no one else they disliked more than him. So if he starts putting people down, people will SEE that shit happen, and you don't have to be that person! Not one bit!

You don't have to 'fake it til you make it'. You don't have to do routines that are made up that you'd never say anyway. There are LOADS of ways to bring out aspects of YOUR PERSONALITY THAT WERE THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE that will make you a more attractive person. All without being the douchebag you've been trying to avoid.

2012-01-17T23:28:45+00:00

Don't mistake a nice guy for a man without claws!

cptncrnch · 2012-01-17T23:51:22+00:00

(Everyone else is already defending pickup, so here's some advice on your next few years remaining at school.)

I remember when I started college; I was in the east coast surrounded by New England types in a bubble of a campus where dorm life was the only life. Being from LA and somewhat of an ethical stickler like yourself, my guard was up and I found myself really trying hard to classify things as right and wrong, surrounding myself with friends that I felt comfortable with. I feel that's natural. You're away from home for the first time and you strongly value your identity as a person over all the "bullshit" personalities you may encounter in college. I thought I was being a strong person by not wavering in a world of shenanigans.

That being said, don't waste your time in college changing yourself by comparing yourself against others' standards. You can lose the opportunity for great things if you're being naive about something you haven't really experienced yet. You're not going to be compatible with everyone and that's just fine. But don't go around thinking your shit don't stink. At the end of the day, everyone's shit stinks just the same.

Become someone that gives value. Love yourself (in a real, non-arrogant way) that you don't care if "Mike" is a doucher; you've got more interesting things to do. Talk to girls, don't get played, fuck one-itis.

ihahp · 2012-01-18T00:47:20+00:00

I've found that most guys who think they're treating women as equals actually aren't. that guys who were raised that way actually treat girls differently than they do their male friends. like "locker room talk".

I was taught to teach women as equals, but also that there's a time and place for "locker room talk" and so I ended up not cursing in front of girls, not telling dirty jokes etc. I thought I was treating women like equals, but I was treating them differently.

the biggest breakthrough I ever had with women is when I actually started treating girls the same way I treat my best male friends. I'd joke with them, cuss in front of them, tell the same stories, and act the same way. I wasn't being alpha, or a douche. I was just being the same person my guy friends liked in front of girls. and it worked.

worthwhilethrowaway · 2012-01-18T02:01:41+00:00

I can't even bring myself to say them, even when they flit through my head during conversation and are particularly witty.

I think it's rude to withhold witty quips. What, am I not good enough for your wit? Well then fuck you.

I'm not sure why you bothered posting this wall-o-text. Do you want us to try and convince you otherwise or something? Yes, a lot of seduction inadvertently pushes you to be a self imposing ass, but there's a reason for it. Most people on this site and sub are the type of people who are used as a welcome matt. In order to fix that extreme, they go to the other extreme. They try that for a little until they find a balance where they are happy usually that balance is in the middle. The problem is, those people who have found that balance no longer need this subreddit, so most posts and contributions here are from one extreme or the other.

So harness the good energy, block out the bad.

Most importantly... fucking relax. I have more to say about some of the specific things you mentioned but... whatever.

theubernoob · 2012-01-18T02:15:56+00:00

I come from the same train of thought. I don't really study seduction, but I like sharing my thoughts on how to get women.

You don't need to be alpha male or a douche bag to pick up chicks. All you have to do is be a good guy. There is certainly a difference between a good guy and a bitch and I believe most people don't understand the difference so they think they have to be an asshole to get women. Being an asshole will get you random women for a night. Being a good guy will get you any woman throughout your life.

wtjones · 2012-01-18T02:20:54+00:00

Go out and talk to everyone. Don't worry about being alpha. Pay attention to what people are doing and converse with them about something relevant. WATCH the response you get. You're going to see you're adding value to people's lives, making them better. If this is all you do you'll see increased action from people.

You may come to find that if you don't spend so much time trying to treat women as 'equals' you'll add value to their lives as well.

drbr0wn · 2012-01-18T02:32:44+00:00

Our values are the same, but you sound like a wimp, bro. There's a balance for all men.

cENTgetEnough · 2012-01-18T03:08:11+00:00

Hey, I'm not on r/seduction very much, just once in a while. But the main thing I take from it is confidence. Not necessarily the alpha, dominating type of confidence, but just confident in who you are, and knowing you have something to give, which you do. You sound awesome by the way. I really like that you don't want to assert your will on anyone, and that you respect girls! I don't know what you are like with people, but as long as you aren't afraid to approach women, and show them you respect them etc, I think that's all the "game" (for lack of a better word) you need. You have everything to back it up from the sounds of it. So just put yourself in situations where girls can see it :) Good luck sir! And I wish more men would have your ideals :)

IceBlue · 2012-01-17T17:57:07+00:00

You can be alpha without all the negative parts that you describe. You're cherry picking some ideas you hate but ignoring the message.

Being more confident isn't a bad thing. Asserting your will isn't a bad thing either. Being decisive is a good thing. That doesn't mean you force people to do what you want, it just means you're just better at convincing people to do what you want, which many people prefer rather than the decisions being on them. Hell you can even give them options and still be a leader/alpha. But the point is to avoid situations like "what do you feel like doing/eating?" "I don't know. What do you feel like doing/eating?" which is all too common and leads people to think you're boring.

As a side note, is anyone tired of people posting dissenting opinions and then saying shit like "bring on the downvotes". What's the point of bringing it up? Bringing attention to yourself like that isn't classy at all.

robotfoodab · 2012-01-17T20:42:04+00:00

Good for you, mate. Don't take women advice from men on the Internet, especially Reddit. I thought that would go without saying...

abadgaem · 2012-01-17T14:19:29+00:00

respect women as complete equals

probably more than any other people I can think of, this community respects women as true equals. We like meeting women. We want to make women like meeting us. It's not about some kind of 'alpha male' thing, it's about being a more interesting person than everyone else.

It sounds like you have some serious issues man.

Anomalyzero · 2012-01-17T15:21:06+00:00

Cool story bro.

GTFO?

green_marshmallow · 2012-01-17T15:53:35+00:00

If asserting your will over another is wrong, what do you do when someone wants to harm you? Do you let them, to keep your morality? Where do you draw the line? Not everyone has your values, how would you convince them they should treat you with respect, if your morality doesn't allow you to tell them what to do? This sounds like a troll post, you don't even bother to respond to the constructive comments

crossover817 · 2012-01-17T20:18:53+00:00

Well looks like Tim Tebow found his way to Seddit

dope_monkey · 2012-01-17T20:21:54+00:00

tired of hearing this anxiety about unthinking immorality

Anomalyzero · 2012-01-17T16:03:21+00:00

Seduction has nothing to do with your morals, whether you respect women or not, that's irrelevant.

Being alpha, dominant, aggressive, and attractive has nothing to do with equality. It has to do with going for what you want and being fearless. Someone has to take action and take risk, someone has to "assert their will over the other" as you said, and it's never going to be the women. You taking action, being a leader, is what is required of you as a man, the women needs to know you can take action and be dominant, it's a sign of being healthy, and it's a sign of survival, she's too busy taking care of your children while you protect the tribe, how will she know you can protect the tribe if you're too scared to be assertive?

You can do it, it's in your genes to do it, your ancestors did it, your parents did it. It's evolution, read the book No More Mr Nice Guy to change your perspective, and understand why being dominant is important. If you don't agree with something in particular, don't do it, I don't agree with negs, and palm reading magic tricks, I don't do it, and it makes no difference, but the part doesn't equal the whole. Just because I don't like one thing or style, doesn't mean I won't like the rest.

Take what works, discard the rest.

ngroot · 2012-01-17T15:05:51+00:00

Being a domineering prick doesn't work out well, in my observation, for getting laid or making friends. If this guy you hate has lots of people who like to hang around him...maybe he's actually an interesting guy.

Learning how to make yourself attractive has nothing to do with whether or not you view women as equals. I'm not even sure what that means when stated so broadly, beyond simply acknowledging that they're human too.

Be an interesting person. Be confident. Learn to socialize well in a group. Bring value to the groups that you enter. That's a lot of it.

IaMaFreshman · 2012-01-17T16:29:00+00:00

You are wrong, and if you actually took the time to understand the message that this community is sharing you will understand why I say this. Your issue is with your roommate's friend, not with this subreddit.

blue_moose · 2012-01-17T17:20:38+00:00

Hey man, you got everything wrong. Seduction is not about being a dick, it is about being confident in yourself. I mean, acting douchey attracts douchey girls, whereas acting like a confident gentleman can get you absolutely decent chicks which you will enjoy spending time with and dating. So please keep on being nice, nothing surpasses a confident and convincing bloke with good manners, all you need to do is stop being shy and silent.

captshady · 2012-01-17T17:23:47+00:00

There are levels of alpha. You don't have to be THAT alpha, but you do have to be a leader in the relationship, or forever be cuckolded.

theplastictramp · 2012-01-17T18:03:19+00:00

Be attractive. Don't be unattractive.

anonymous_hero · 2012-01-17T18:18:11+00:00

I know how you feel. Just try to find the "good parts" and benefit from those. Besides, if you're 19 years old, you have nothing to complain or worry about.

You've got your whole damn life ahead of you, and there's plenty of time for your outlook on dating to change, maybe even several times.

larry_ · 2012-01-17T18:23:20+00:00

I haven't really checked out the art of pickup that much but even I know that it's not about demeaning women. You have to be confident and confidence radiates through the room and you seem so scared of trying to be confident and trying to break out of your mindset that restricts you... This is not "scientifical" pickup, but just imagine you walk up to a girl, chat her up , be friendly and joke around. How is that demeaning? And a neg is something , if I understood correctly, that's not supposed to insult them so that they feel hurt but it should build trust and give the girl the feeling she knows you better. it's amazing how well this stuff works and if you're not halfbad as a dude, meaning you're kinda funny and smart, girls will love you if you talk to them and don't get intimidated!

TL;DR : Go out, talk to women, don't cockblock yourself by looking for excuses. Be friendly, be nice but be confident.

Hansmuh · 2012-01-17T18:23:32+00:00

Dont think too much of an alpha. Think more of a gentleman.

Do this and accept and understand, that woman have sexual needs. This is enough to start making progress with girls.

I dont sacrifice my morals neither, i will take home absolutly drunken girls to get laid etc.

kazagistar · 2012-01-17T18:33:08+00:00

Could it be that you just don't like the guy who is telling you pick up stuff, and that taints the message in your eyes? Just cause the sith use the force does not make it inherently evil.

2012-01-17T18:37:53+00:00

"Asserting your will over another human being" is pretty much every interaction in life that requires convincing, debating, heck, any life choice at all. You assert your will over people all the time, and they do it to you. Maybe it's subconscious, but it happens.

Stythe · 2012-01-17T19:09:28+00:00

It's not about being a self centered prick. It's about understanding that the mentality you accuse everyone here of having is the same issue that causes you issues with women. You're too worried about your own opinions. Some woman want to be treated as less than equals. Does that mean you should do it? I dunno, that's up to you.

The idea of "game" is to overcome your insecurities. To be the person you wan't to be. it's about learning to be comfortable with yourself. That's what women see. The confidence and comfort. Not the arrogance and self centeredness.

Also, when you do start getting better, you WILL find yourself adopting new mentalities. Why? Because women ARE equals. They are just as self centered, just as arrogant, just as rude, and just and dumb as men are. Don't get this twisted. Everyone is imperfect and that's what makes people beautiful. What you suggest here is not equality towards woman, it's arrogance from your own mind in the guise of compassion.

Anomalyzero · 2012-01-17T19:37:36+00:00

As long as you don't feel you can do this, you won't be able to.

Its your choice.

eskachig · 2012-01-17T21:09:07+00:00

Try not to get lost in the PUA lingo and a lot of the mysoginistic bent that's flying around sites like these. There is a lot of good advice here, for real - because being able to connect with women is about inner confidence and being able to navigate social settings effectively. Just filter out the douchier parts and the smarmy sales tactics.

angry_fapper · 2012-01-17T21:27:43+00:00

Personally, I respect your train of thought, because I once too thought like you. I used to think men an women are equal. Great! That's fine. Believe what you want you're entitled to your own opinions, but at the end of the day you still want a girl, and this requires you to build attraction. Get buff, learn fashion, and frequent places where being a meek beta candy-assgot man can be to your advantage in getting females. Now, I don't have any places in mind that would accommodate these personality traits. Perhaps you could think of some? I'm just trying to encourage some strategical thoughts for you during this seemingly hard time for you.

About the Shit test answers. They may not be your style, but it's an undeniable fact that these responses will likely provoke a fun atmosphere when interacting with girls. So just modify them to your liking. Eat the prune and spit out the seeds, kiddo. Good luck + disregard my name...

Anomalyzero · 2012-01-17T22:04:54+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Anomalyzero · 2012-01-17T22:12:27+00:00

[permanently deleted]

PLplotsOTS · 2012-01-17T22:26:28+00:00

The response to this post makes me so proud of this community. I have nothing more to add.

AlephBaTa · 2012-01-17T22:31:52+00:00

TC hiding behind excuses. Nobody said you need to be a "domineering prick," you just need to have boundaries and not let people take advantage of you.

You're disregarding the mountains of advice and experience on this subreddit because it's pushing you outside of your comfort zone and you're not willing to take the leap outside into the cold.

I like how you claim that you were oh-so-successful with women with your "few relationships" and a long-term, yet you nonetheless lurked on this board for two years.

montesleight · 2012-01-17T22:54:45+00:00

Who told you to be an asshole?

Your parents told you to respect women and treat them as equals. Thats what seduction is. It's a game that goes both ways. Treating women as equals is attractive, challenging a woman to show you a game after playing one with her, not taking shit from her, and not paying for everythng she wants is treating a woman equally. Respect is something that you should have for every person exclusive from pick up.

Relearn this stuff with the hopes of not being an asshole and you'll have a better understanding of it. Granted, you can abuse the skills of attracting women for selfish purposes. When you attract a woman/girl/hb/whatever it's supposed to be fun for both of you. Shes there because she wants to be not because you know some magic mind control trick. Good luck. Don't give up. "Never give up! Never surrender!"

gdank · 2012-01-17T22:54:47+00:00

you gotta stop and realize all of us is hos, were manipulative men hooking up with manipulative women because we both want our junk sucked

space17 · 2012-01-17T23:08:02+00:00

from what I read, you have a problem with both (most of) the ways described here to pick up women, and with dating girls. While I won't blame or condone you for the first part, I might have another point of view for the second.

I, too, consider myself as someone respectuous of women. But you can pick up girls, have sex (or not, for it matter) and still be respectuous of them. A really great way to pick up women is to make them laugh. You don't have to be an alpha, to be conquerant, to brag or whatever to do so. You just have to take life as lightly as you can. And then joke about things, and laugh yourself at whatever goes by. just don't care a shit about the alpha males, possibly have fun of them with the girls, and just enjoy your night. If a girl sees that you're having fun, smiling, and yet are not an asshole, she may be interested.

That's all I do. I love my life, it's not a star's one, I'm no better than the average guy, but damn do I laugh and enjoy it! And am I blunt and blind sometimes!

2012-01-17T23:34:30+00:00

" I've had a few relationships, and one long term one which isn't bad for 19"

How is that good?

Anomalyzero · 2012-01-18T00:18:59+00:00

I won't ever assert my will over another human being because I believe it is immoral.

And yet you'll wish death upon another human being simply because they're apparently rude to you. This isn't morality we're talking about, you're just using moral language as an excuse. I did the same thing when I was a teenager regarding pacifism: I decided that all violence was "immoral", completely arbitrarily, simply because I was afraid to fight. You're doing the same thing regarding the expression of your will. What's immoral is using physical force to inflict your will upon others; merely being confident, out-going and adept at conversation is perfectly moral behaviour.

lolwhatsausername · 2012-01-18T00:22:27+00:00

Not all people that are good with women are a "domineering prick". If you respect women as equals and can't bring yourself to be the "domineering prick" then that's your angle. You can still be successful with women, but you're just making up excuses.

justinw05 · 2012-01-18T00:37:39+00:00

Here's the deal. I do well with women, I'm not the most attractive guy around but I've been fucking well above my pay grade for years. You're not asserting your will over anyone. People don't do anything that they don't want to. If a girl sleeps with you its not because you exerted your wizard will powers over her to make her sleep with you. It's because she actually wanted to!

Like I said, I do alright with the ladies and within my social circle. I don't act like an arrogant ass but I also don't back down when my opinions are challenged. I playfully interact with others around me but I live by a saying that says: Build people up, don't tear them down. Some guys have the same results I do by tearing people down and acting like douchebags. This sounds like your bud Mike. You don't have to be like that.

You can compliment people, talk to them about their interests, be genuinely interested, make clever, but not rude remarks to things people say and my personal favorite response to the 'shit-test' over all others: Agree and amplify. Nothing disarms someone better than the agree and amplify. You're not being an asshole at all, it's not rude, in fact, you're living up their joke and enjoying it! For example one of the common ones you'll encounter is "I have a boyfriend." to which I'd respond "Yeah, I do too. He's around here somewhere - shh don't let him see us talking, he's the jealous type!" That's not rude, that's funny!

To be honest with you, I think you're suffering from some self esteem problems. I commend your willingness to be a gentleman because that's how you were raised. That's a good way to be, but that's an excuse to be a woman's doormat. If you want to be a gentleman, then BE ONE, think Sean Connery or Clint Eastwood. Being a gentleman does not mean letting women walk all over you. And if you say you were raised to treat them as equals... then treat them as equals in knowing that they want to fuck just as much as you do!

So when you take a girl home from a bar and proceed to bang her brains out, don't be thinking in the back of your head "I made her do this" - that would be rape, and that's not what we do here. You're both two consenting adults with the ability to consent to sex or even a relationship if that's what you're looking for. And believe me, women want it just as much as we do, if not more.

/endrant

Anomalyzero · 2012-01-18T00:46:15+00:00

"I'm not out to dominate people" - if you aren't out to dominate people, then why did you write a post telling us how egotistical and immoral we are? That's you trying to impose your will on us.

The first part of pickup we all learn, is that it's OK to be who we are. It's OK to hit on women. It's OK to approach women. The reason we learn this is because most of us had a similar experience to you. We all had friends at one point who were good with women that we were slightly jealous of. We rationalized that jealousy through hatred by saying he is being immoral or egotistical. We were all in your shoes at one point.

Trust me, we have heard this shit 100 times before. You're still a student and have yet to enter the real world, but one day when you make it here, you will see things a lot differently.

Also, you're over generalizing the situation. Not every PUA out there is an asshole. In my book I specifically mention that there is a trap many men fall into and never escape from, and that is the asshole trap. If you're aware that this is not what you wish to become then you have an easy road ahead. You can take the positive aspects of pickup mindsets and advice while leaving the bad at the door, that's all your choice. Just don't force your choice on other people, otherwise you're being nothing more than a hypocrite.

2012-01-18T00:46:48+00:00

Why so serious? Lighten up, it's called game for a reason. All the world's a stage and the egos, big and small are just playing their parts.

You may like the concept of warm alpha versus cold alpha. The warm alpha is the benevolent leader of the pack, the one with the unshakeable mentality of abundance. The Mufasa. The cold alpha is the challenger, the one lacking, the one scheming and maneuvering for power, ie. Scar.

When you're comfortable in the world, you become the host for everyone and of every occasion; everyone are literally visiting your reality, and your task, being supremely comfortable in your own home and your role as host, is to help everyone feel welcome. Does that sound like you should be acting like a dick and play power games? No, power games are for the weak, the Scars. Just be Mufasa.

(ninjaedit: needed more corny, added Lion King references)

iznou · 2012-01-18T01:38:23+00:00

I don't like egotistical replies, or stupid quips about how awesome you are. I find it incredibly arrogant, and its the main thing I was talking about in this post. I'm not out to dominate people, that would violate my own ideas of what being an equal is.

Nobody likes that! Game is much more subtle than that, after all it's a game! It's supposed to be the kind of thing you want to engage in and you want other people to join in. Sometimes you're playing the game and you get the feeling someone "broke the rules". As you admitted you have enforced the rules of the game on other people which prevented you from "getting played". Nice work, you've got game, bro!

Now, just realize we are here to learn better game. But if you're satisfied with how your game is now, then all the more power to you.

ColumW · 2012-01-18T01:49:57+00:00

[permanently deleted]

rafcinaction · 2012-01-18T02:56:32+00:00

I feel like Draigen10's post on misconceptions on being an alpha male is relevant to you.

http://www.reddit.com/r/highseddit/comments/oh81u/misconceptions_on_being_an_alpha_male_and_how_it/

Level_75_Zapdos · 2012-01-18T06:28:35+00:00

So tempted to go 4chan on this guy ...

I'll take the high road and recommend the OP watch some AFC Adam videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/AFCAdamLondon/videos

ominous_anonymous · 2012-01-19T16:05:11+00:00

The way I took the shit-test stuff was "Ask a shitty question, and I'll give you a shitty answer" comebacks.

Most of those situations are the women being rude and attempting to make you uncomfortable/unnerved around them.

Check this post out:

what you are saying underneath the surface is, "Don't ask me stupid probing questions. I will not dignify them with a real response."

roxxe · 2012-01-17T15:44:34+00:00

Z_a_u_b_e_r · 2012-01-18T01:05:57+00:00

You sound like a whiny little bitch.

My diagnosis is you're too scared to speak to women, so you've created a load of bullshit reasons in your head to support your current situation and degrade the alternative route, which involves taking a dose of vitamin sack the fuck up and getting out of your comfort zone.

Confidence does not equal arrogance. Women are equal, but they are also different. Prime example? They shit out human beings. Men do not do this.

Stop ignoring everything we say here, read the information without being judgemental and see it for what it is. It's a set of skills that will help you improve and advance in every aspect of life.

If this is too much for you to handle, by all means continue with what you currently think. Quite frankly, I don't give a shit.

espanabarca · 2012-01-18T01:53:35+00:00

I'll be blunt here. You're a little whiney bitch.

Do you watch sports? Let's take soccer for example. You have teams that play absolutely radically different soccer. You have teams like Barca that keep the ball, you have counter attacking teams like United, you have teams like Inter that only defend and try to keep the ball with the opponent rather than taking posession. All these three teams have won the most prestigious cup in the last four years.

Why am I telling you this? Because you need to realize that 'game' isn't some kind of fucked up ten commandments that you need to follow in order to get laid or to get a girlfriend. All of these three teams, despite having radically different strategies, have won the biggest prize of it all. Same goes for pick up and seduction - each has his own game, and it doesn't mean that one is better than the other, they're just different.

No one is forcing you to be arrogant, aggresive, dominant or alpha. It's up to you who you are in the bar. Personally, despite reading quite a lot of seddit, I'm still myself when I go to a bar. Will I score way more if I adopt these traits of being imposing and dominant? Perhaps, but I choose not to because that's I don't want to sell something that isn't what I'm pretending it is.

In the end, the bottom line of seddit is to be confident. You can be the nicest guy ever, but if you ain't got the balls to approach a woman, you ain't going anywhere.

edit - and personally, I think your definitions of some words might be skewed. I interpret being an alpha as being someone who gives more than he takes and who stands his ground, which is in no way negative. Dominance for me is another way to refer to the frame you have, think of it as charisma. And aggressiveness is bascially having the cajones to escalate, build kino and eventually build the kind of relationship you want, be it a friendship or something more romantic.

Whisper · 2012-01-18T03:46:06+00:00

I would like someone to kill this man.

You are not the nice person you think you are.

You are not the nice person you congratulate yourself on being.

Not only are you wishing death on someone who has never harmed you or (to your knowledge) anyone, you are passing judgement on everyone around you, including all of us, as if someone had died and made you god.

That, I suspect, is why you hate these techniques so much. Because to try them, you would have to give up your self-image of moral superiority, and admit that you are made of the same selfish goo as the rest of the human race. That's a hell of a thing to have to give up, especially if you have based your identity on it.

But I'll tell you a secret. Women are made out of the same selfish goo, also. Using seduction techniques on them is treating them as equals, because they do the same sorts of things... and are entirely justified in doing so. You, on the other hand, seem to want to have your way without having to get your hands dirty, or face the risk of looking like the bad guy.

Why do you think women like Mike better than they like you? Answer is, because he is actually treating them better than you do. He leaves it to them to decide what what they want and why, and acts how he chooses to act. You give women what you have decided they should want, and to hell with their actual autonomy.

Alot of you guys have assumed that I am a weak sensitive nice guy.

I don't know if you're sensitive. I've explained that you aren't actually nice.

But no matter who you stand up to, Mike or anyone else, you will still be weak until you can face yourself, admit your own motivations, and face your own shortcomings.

So far you haven't even admitted the possibility that you might be wrong.

Of course women aren't going to be attracted to that. What woman is going to want someone who can't accept her as she is? Who tries to "protect" her from what she wants? Who says he "respects" her, but uses that as an excuse not to listen to her? Women are not dolls for you to idealize. They are people, and they don't need to burden of living up to your made-up ideals.

abadgaem · 2012-01-17T19:42:40+00:00

Regarding approaching women with the expectation of failure, the technique itself is sound once you separate it from the bullshit. The forever alone type has a ton of baggage about social interaction in general and women in particular; usually a long buildup of negative interactions that have left them increasingly isolated and unfamiliar with social norms. An effective way to overcome it is practice and learning from the inevitable failures to communicate.

I just wish there was a less destructive and misogynistic community to provide the tools they need to resocialize.

Just separate the good bits from the chaff and you'll be okay.

luciiz · 2012-01-17T16:43:09+00:00

OP please listen to this post.

r/NoFap and r/PornFree

www.yourbrainonporn.com

That is all. Over and out.

2012-01-17T15:26:57+00:00

[permanently deleted]

getthefuckoutofhere · 2012-01-18T08:14:10+00:00

I have threatened to kick him out of my room when he has said particularly nasty and immoral things about me

watch out we got a badass over here

2012-01-19T06:14:33+00:00

This is like going onto a cooking subreddit and saying "I refuse to cook!" Good for you...no one asked you to. But that happens to be the point of that subreddit.

Supervert · 2012-01-17T15:40:48+00:00

I used to think just like you. After a few failed relationships were you're the doormat, you'll start to question why you aren't happy with your life.

And then you'll start looking for answers. Some of them, you'll find here. Others, well... I don't want to spoil it for you.

Anomalyzero · 2012-01-17T19:47:31+00:00

I'm afraid what you call 'immoral' is often the key to social success.

2012-01-17T20:42:42+00:00

I'll catch this man for ya. $10,000 for me by myself. For that you get the head, the tail, the whole damn thing.

PS, real talk: I agree with you completely about alpha-males being fake, hollow shitheaded douchebags. What these kids say be damned. I only lurk around here to slip in the occasional Jaws reference. I agree with you and I hate people like that. You'll find a lovely girl to spend your life with, they'll still be trolling the bar. Your plan b, should that fail, can be drugs and art.

Edgar_Allan_Rich · 2012-01-17T21:12:09+00:00

Don't hate the game, hate the player.

Thizzlebot · 2012-01-17T23:27:19+00:00

This kid is the very definition of beta.

Anomalyzero · 2012-01-18T00:24:40+00:00

[permanently deleted]

bitches_be · 2012-01-18T03:27:23+00:00

Who hurt you?

greenelise · 2012-01-18T03:54:28+00:00

I'm a girl, and let me tell you, I would pick you over any other ass. You're doing great in my book :)

stooner · 2012-01-18T05:37:44+00:00

To be quite honest, I was in a similar boat as you at one point. I had always been in a relationship since 16, but then I found myself no longer in one and I kept doubting myself. One day, I decided, eff it. I'm not going to change who I am to a lady, but I can't just 'sit around' waiting for something to happen. So, I just started talking. Simple as that. I picked up on cues, and the more approachable the cue, the deeper the conversation I got. Same for the rejections as well, the first few were rough, but eventually it became more, 'Psshh, whatever, you're not good enough for my attention anyways...' Things do get better, but you gotta practice at it first.

jesusrambo · 2012-01-18T01:45:30+00:00

You are a moron.

mugu22 · 2012-01-17T21:09:26+00:00

I was linked to this post from a forum thread about how stupid reddit can be. I just want to say that you've got the right idea. The people in this subreddit prey on emotionally stunted, insecure women. Half their conquests are date-rapes, and the personality traits they try to foster in men are of the basest, nastiest, and most brutish sort. Be a man - a real man - and recognize this ridiculous dehumanizing nonsense for what it is.

And don't fall for the trite "evolutionary psychology" they push here - there's no such thing as alphas and betas, because we are not lions in a pack on the Serengeti. We are human beings, with more nuance to our character than can be summed up in worldviews peddled by morons in fuzzy tophats like Mystery (because peacocking works!), or bozos like Neil Strauss. Don't assign a numerical value to women: they are not HB7s or HB8s, they are people like me and you. Treat them as such, and you will break through the walls of defense they've erected in order to fend off the losers that post in this subreddit. That accomplishment alone will be worth more to you than casual sex, because you will at least see the girls for who they are, not how they look. That's something the sedditors here will never really understand, because to them women are just a means to feel better about themselves.

You seem like a nice man, and I hope you find whatever it is you're looking for from the fairer sex. The fact that you won't contribute to the ridiculous culture these people are trying to sell earns you a tip from my hat, sir. Best of luck.

Zangief89 · 2022-05-03T16:56:02+00:00

Bro I got you. Go on Amazon and checkout a game called Chickenshit. Go out with a buddy and play that game until you inevitably get laid then repeat. You’re welcome

Title	I don't think I can do this.
Author	Anomalyzero
Upvotes	358
Comments	369
Date	January 17, 2012 12:41 PM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/okrtn/i_dont_think_i_can_do_this/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/i-dont-think-i-can-do-this.1327097 https://theredarchive.com/post/1327097

Comments