Is there any hope in fixing gender relations?

Legitimate_Type_1324 · 2024-03-23T07:16:01+00:00

Look at Japan, Korea, Italy, Spain...I don't have high hopes

Devilishz3 · 2024-03-23T06:37:15+00:00

I think the way i see it is like racists. They'll never be gone and they'll always be crazy but we do our best to mitigate or ignore and partner up with people who aren't lunatics. That's the real us vs them. Non crazy men and women vs the crazies.

You unsurprisingly run into some pleasant people that way, who woulda thought?

ej_theraider · 2024-03-23T06:14:05+00:00

There is no "fixing" it.

DeJuanBallard · 2024-03-23T05:04:43+00:00

Get off reddit. I'm being serious, this place is like 4chan with a diversity quota.

Love-Is-Selfish · 2024-03-23T03:28:58+00:00

For one, man has free will. There will always be people who choose to evade and end up bitter. But if you want to minimize it then you have to minimize the number of bitter people. That’s means maximizing the number of people achieving their own flourishing. And there’s room for improvement there. The culture could use to better promote what’s necessary for you to flourish, including that your highest moral purpose should be your own flourishing. Also, a better conception of masculinity and femininity that’s more conducive to your own flourishing in the modern world would be helpful as well.

Jaded_Interaction162 · 2024-03-23T02:54:47+00:00

No it doesn't seem like it'll ever get better. Neither side wants to compromise lol.

waffleznstuff30 · 2024-03-23T03:02:57+00:00

Empathy and understanding of each other's struggle.

Men. Have it hard because they don't choose to be single. They feel shitty when they are. It sucks and it brings out a slew of self image and self esteem issues. They face a lot of rejections. And also get laughed at when in actual toxic situations with a woman. It's hard and I can empathize I feel for them. Men don't have a lot of outlets for feelings. Which they should have more. Men have expectations of being a provider but in this economy it feels hopeless. When you can barely scrape by you deserve grace.

Women. Have been taken for granted in romantic relationships and hurt. It's constantly projected that they should "pick better men". When they hold out it's "Not like that have fun dying alone with your cats". "Female delusion calculator". Women have faced violence at the hands of men. Women have taken on a lot of labor and build men's dreams at the expense of their own and get no appreciation or support for doing so it's just you are doing what you are told. Women are objectified. Our bodies are policed by the same men who are so desperate to take from us. And we are finally finding independence that we do deserve better and willing to stay alone if better doesn't come.

I think an honest dialogue. And learning to actually relate with each other as people first. Not team man. Team woman. Just honest conversations from individuals. And their stories and come to a understanding with each other.

Still_Succotash5012 · 2024-03-23T07:04:24+00:00

No. Enjoy society now because it's going to get worse before it gets better. Every statistic is pointing towards population collapse in Western (and Asian) nations and decreased sexual relations.

I hope I'm wrong, I hope something comes along that stops us from reaching a breaking point, but I doubt it.

harmonica2 · 2024-03-23T03:23:54+00:00

Are gender relations actually as bad as amplified on here? It seems to me that most people get along just fine, unless it's me?

Balochim · 2024-03-23T03:06:30+00:00

Personally I think it’s time to finish up the world war trilogy and get it over with

TheRedPillRipper · 2024-03-23T03:10:54+00:00

I know reddit/internet is not a realistic display

The real issue isn’t the technology. Or even the social media. It’s the education, and ultimately building of critical thinking. Gender relations, are simply a subset of this broader issue.

It’s not a matter of what people really think. Or even how. Either a person possesses the critical capacity, to discern what’s realistic; what is objectively true; or they do not. This factor is especially fundamental, to relationships.

IAmDefinitelyNotFBI · 2024-03-23T10:04:26+00:00

This sub is a good example that it won’t. How rare is it to see any post ever upvoted here? Everyone is just pissed off and won’t settle for any less than “Yes, your sex has it worse than the other.” Even some of the most level-headed posts here that are slightly pro men or pro women will still be downvoted by the “other side”.

DevilishRogue · 2024-03-23T17:07:09+00:00

The only thing preventing gender relations is ideologues being unwilling to acknowledge the pro-female bias exhibited innately by both sexes. Activists since the late 60s have been undertaking The Long March Through The Institutions, aimed at ensuring their agenda is still being pushed as mainstream regardless of not being able to get it promoted via the ballot box. As a result they've entrenched systems that only promote those who adhere to goodthink and those systems now operate as successful organisms independently of those who initially established them.

Confronting those who have only ever been exposed to such systems with facts that contradict what those systems present is like attempting to argue with religious zealots, because in effect that is exactly what those who accept at face value without question are. However, increasingly there are women speaking up on men's issues and as a result, despite the disparagement of such individuals as "pick me's" and other derogatory terms, they are being heard by both sexes because of the pro-female bias inherent in both sexes and as a result such views are finally being begun to be taken seriously.

Whilst entire nations effectively try and cancel voices as diverse as Cassie Jaye to Lauren Southern when they point out the emperor isn't wearing any clothes, the Internet is increasingly leaving those arguing otherwise in highly censorious bubbles where their influence is lessened. And whilst cancel culture still exists, the frothing left that espouses it are increasingly recognized for the rabidly insane lunatics they are, pushing more and more people further and further away from their ridiculous beliefs as they see their true colors exposed.

As a result, greater numbers are not just acknowledging the silent majority is in the right, but actively turning against those who polarized the debate through their progressiveness in the first place as the reactionary effect is being felt as the backlash Susan Faludi predicted. Feminism has overplayed its hand too far and has been too often seen to be hurting women rather than merely hurting men. From the Clinton sex trial to the new wives of previously divorced husbands, too many women have been hurt by feminism for it to continue to be able to claim it is a pro-women movement rather than the anti-men movement it has always been in practice. Fewer than ever identify as feminist and more actively reject the label than wear it.

Because of how it affects women and women speaking up about the unfairness in society, we are seeing more and more people support actual equality in the gender wars on issues ranging from gender blind hiring and single-sex scholarships, to lifelong alimony and support and recognition for male victims of domestic violence. Things are moving the right way as the inevitable reactionary response to the initial progressive putsch manifests.

Preme2 · 2024-03-23T03:51:54+00:00

No. Your best bet is that men and women just become more indifferent towards each other. Technology can help with this and speed up the “not needing each other” process. If this is implemented then you could get closer to social-gender relations equality.

At this moment it seems to be more social benefit towards women at the cost of men. Likely leading to more disgruntled men, and worsening gender relations.

I also think society (mainly women and some men) will view social equality among the sexes as a detriment to women. Men not needing women and women not needing men would not be “equal” in society’s eyes. Society has decided that women not needing men, but men needing women is somehow equitable.

KurlyKayla · 2024-03-23T05:13:32+00:00

[permanently deleted]

No-Calligrapher-3630 · 2024-03-23T09:49:28+00:00

Fun fact, most of these posts are actually created by a small proportion of people, who often have multiple accounts. But they make most of these posts, so it seems like it's loads of people but it's really not.

EvilManDevil · 2024-03-23T13:29:34+00:00

Men are willing to compromise. It's women that don't want any compromise.

redditaccountnam · 2024-03-23T03:03:14+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Empact · 2024-03-23T07:33:11+00:00

The only hope is the women who are willing to diregard the feminist slurs, of "pick me," etc. Because those women are the ones who are actually trying to bridge the gap in a way that doesn't disregard our basic inclinations. I certainly hope they can overcome the crab bucket of unhappy women. :P

Wattehfok · 2024-03-23T08:43:39+00:00

Dropping JDAMs on the server farms supporting pretty much every dating app and social media site would go a long way.

Zabadoodude · 2024-03-23T16:17:42+00:00

People go on the internet to vent, so the anger is overrepresented here. Most people I know in real life don't hate the other gender.

Hi-Road · 2024-03-23T17:47:24+00:00

The world will just have to experience growing pains on the way to gender equality. People are adapting very slowly, and everyone's trying to dictate how the other gender should act. There's a lot of good conversations going on but negative ones are more provocative and pick up steam quicker on social media.

Westernation · 2024-03-23T19:19:22+00:00

I’m advocating for the ‘Logan’s Run’ solution.

Everybody dies at 28.

just_a_place · 2024-03-24T05:50:56+00:00

I really don't think so.

Toxic_LigmaMale · 2024-03-23T03:01:49+00:00

wolfloveyes · 2024-03-23T03:16:41+00:00

Ultimately you'll find just there are too many men around who are doing infrastructure maintenance, paying taxes, keep the market lit and stable.

What we need is a large scale war which whips off 50% of male population.

Smart people know it, Russia is doing it. China ramping up their war measures - this equal popular of men and women always results in men being emotionally destroyed, Alive but not living. Deing everyday.

Once countries burned into ground, the forest restored -we are forced to cooperate or we die off without community.

Too much peace and stability and everything delivered to home - we no longer need each other. We aren't willing to tolerate one another, asking people online if something is toxic - yes it's cut off this person. You wouldn't cut off someone if you needed them for survival.

Than the natural order will be restored - long term peace creates, psychological chaos. Alive but not living.

Lot of us will prefer to just die instead.

Only large scale War can fix this terrible situation. Till the house is on the ground, people fight for who controls the house. Once house is burned into ground, they start cooperating to build a new one from ground up.

But once it's up, same struggle over the house starts.

Ogdocon · 2024-03-23T03:52:20+00:00

No, i imagine it’ll only get worse though. More people will likely just check out. it’s just way too much energy and the return isn’t really worth it.

-snickerss- · 2024-03-23T05:25:00+00:00

Men become lonely, men start hating women, women start hating them back

antariusz · 2024-03-23T07:18:15+00:00

It's all cyclical. Gender relations sound pretty fucked up during the greek and roman empires also.

But this civilization, shall too pass.

(do you think things were better when persian kings had harems of hundreds of women) (do you think things were better when greek men were advocating for using young boys for sex and women only for procreation) (do you think things are currently better in Iran or Afghanistan?)

reddit_is_geh · 2024-03-23T07:46:30+00:00

Yes, gender relations are fixed. The solution is grass. Go touch it.

Y'all chronically online zoomers are falling apart because of the internet.

Suspicious_Glove7365 · 2024-03-23T03:27:45+00:00

I mean, embattled relations between genders is a tale as old as time. It’s not a new phenomenon. Men and women didn’t just start hating each other in the advent of online dating. We’re still here. Humanity continues despite these issues because many, many men and women have figured out how to cohabitate peacefully on this planet. You could argue that things are actually better now than in the past because of greater gender equality from a legal perspective.

HomeworkFew2187 · 2024-03-23T04:10:18+00:00

people shouldn't tie their self worth to relationships.

Men should learn to take rejection better.instead of taking it so emotionally.

for some guys politeness or even giving eye contact is enough to make them think a women is interested.The stereotype of the lustful abuserer is not so far out of reality.Most guys aren't like this.But enough are.

most people do not posses the traits required to make relationships work. Regardless of gender. To fix the "gender war" less people need to be in romantic relationships until they are worthy to be partners.

wolfloveyes · 2024-03-23T03:47:56+00:00

If you interview random women and ask them

"Our society is collapsing, do you understand we borrow from future? And not having enough taxpayers and service workers means, we cannot payout pensions and cannot satisfy welfare requirement of the state"

The answer you willl receive:

" I don't care about society, my body my rules I am not a birthing machine "

Then you need to look cold and hard and figure out why men care about society when majority of women don't?

Might as well run it into ground, as a man, you stand higher chance of surviving without "society" than average woman.

So average man should be actively working to burn and run the society into ground.

This produces maximum return for males who do not yet have family.

wtknight · 2024-03-23T04:18:58+00:00

People who can compromise meet other people who are able to compromise. Those who can't compromise stay single and bitter.

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Remarkable_Rough_89 · 2024-03-23T06:58:01+00:00

No, like some one said, woman are being taught to be men, while sitting in AC unit, men need peace

Classic-Economy2273 · 2024-03-23T09:24:58+00:00

I've got a bit of a different take on this, that it's a symptom of a cultural shift caused by the greed of the record industry in the internet age.

Up until the late 90's/2000's subcultures built around genres were a significant structural part of society, easily identifiable and representing differing politics/attitudes in large enough communities that it was common to have pubs or venues catering for that specific group.

Subculture differences were the dividing lines in society rather than gender, useful not just for finding "your" people, but knowing who to avoid too.

Streaming platforms don't require the user to commit to a genre or artist and don't compensate smaller artists fairly choking the development of non mainstream artists. Rather than music being a sense of identity and a way of connecting with like minded people, algorithms provide an individualistic, solitary experience.

Where people would associate with one or more subcultures, they were in control of their identity and to an extent other peoples perceptions of them. The current emphasis on gender, subjects us all to absurd caricatures, can't accurately represent either gender and just serves as a convenient villain.

Ayaka_Simp_ · 2024-03-23T15:49:47+00:00

Agile-Explanation263 · 2024-03-23T16:06:35+00:00

Most people aren't actually struggling, its just when things suck they suck.

ElkInteresting2418 · 2024-03-23T17:05:54+00:00

Not unless we go full 3 and God picks a better wife

userhasleftchat · 2024-03-23T17:36:29+00:00

I feel like there's no fixing the dumpster fire at this point. As long as there are two extreme sides and no one is willing to find middle ground, the fire will just keep burning on and on. Same thing with politics. Peoples' differences push them farther apart than their similarities bring them together. We focus on differences rather than similarities. And people tend to double down defensively instead of trying to understand and consider anything outside of their own beliefs/perspective. No one from either opposing end is willing to budge even slightly.

Is it sad and shitty? Yes. Does it benefit humanity ultimately? No. I think people have become so hyper independent that they have forgotten how important human relationships are. I think the problem lies with how people relate to other humans in general. It starts with how people are raised. Look at how many people have "mommy" or "daddy" issues. That's where it starts. And each negative/painful experience with the opposite sex just reinforces this pattern.

KurlyKayla · 2024-03-23T17:44:00+00:00

It’s clear to me who are the failures when it comes to this, but they’re never going to take personal accountability, so no, I don’t see it getting better, at least not online. There are plenty of people irl who don’t struggle with this though, which is why I see internet conversations about relationships as entertainment more than anything

Teleportingtoast284 · 2024-03-23T20:10:01+00:00

Because rage sells, and so people make rage baited content.

Honestly about 80 % of the content i see on instagram is rage bait.

AlmostKindaGreat · 2024-03-23T20:52:41+00:00

The internet is not great for this. In real life people are more reasonable and willing to give you a fair chance. I see good will from women and respond in kind.

On here I'm not immune to seeing lots of hot takes about how men suck and women are superior and it affects me emotionally and makes me want to respond negatively. The same thing probably happened to them originally, where they were reading a bunch of garbage about how women suck and men are superior. It's just the nature of the thing that the most negative takes get amplified.

While real life is better, some of this negativity does carry over and color our perceptions of each other. It also affects voting and political alignment, which is scary to me.

Own-Artichoke653 · 2024-03-23T21:56:44+00:00

Getting offline, quitting porn, getting married and staying married (which has a strong positive influence on your children. Children of divorced parents have much higher divorce rates than children of parents who stayed married.) Having children after you are married helps as well, as these children are much more likely to be in successful relationships than children born out of wedlock, who make up the vast majority of kids living in single parent homes.

These would help alleviate tensions, but without a common moral framework, which was once predominantly Protestant Christianity for the U.S, it will be hard to find common ground, especially on issues such as abortion, alternative sexual lifestyles, etc.

eli_ashe · 2024-03-23T23:07:18+00:00

I've been leaning pretty heavily towards the irrational fears as being the main motivating factors for these issues.

Tho in my writings I tend to focus on women's irrational fears of men, when I'm in more 'red pilled' spaces I oft tear them apart for their own irrational fears.

Dealing with irrationality is difficult, but not impossible. I think for instance getting folks to recognize that their fears are irrational is a good, positive and even significant first step.

Notsonewguy7 · 2024-03-24T02:37:20+00:00

I think in all likelihood it will get worse and then eventually we'll all become very apathetic to the differences between the genders. Some people will go traditional to try to solve the problem through that method. But ultimately, I think we're gonna go our separate ways

Which I think is for the best?

Substantial_Video560 · 2024-03-24T09:46:38+00:00

No, the only real options for most average men nowadays is being a passport bro, getting a regular escort or investing in buying a high quality sex doll.

Since giving up pursuing dating and relationships ten years ago I've since embraced the single lifestyle and now focus all my energies on myself, work, hobbies and interests.

A life free of social norms and expectations is a liberating one.

shadowrangerfs · 2024-03-24T10:40:14+00:00

When both men and women can accept that it requires give and take. You're not always gonna get your way and you have to be ok with that.

kittycatclaws15 · 2024-03-27T18:29:12+00:00

It just seems like people are meaner online (maybe in general these days?). The internet is anonymous, so people can just kind of lash out for whatever reason with little to no consequences. And it’s not always male versus female, I’ve seen plenty of women shitting on other women for whatever reason- copying their style, being seen as a “pick me”, etc. Even though it can be hard, I think trying to come at people with empathy and curiosity instead of defensively can at least lead to a meaningful discussion where this huge decide can start to close a bit, hopefully.

femiodhater · 2024-03-27T18:38:56+00:00

Unless women budge then probably not

Safinated · 2024-03-23T03:00:39+00:00

Most people compromise. That’s why society continues to function

Sutanrei · 2024-03-23T02:55:21+00:00

You kinda answered your own question. The simple fact is for the people who spend lots of time online, unless you’re making money these people generally are the losers.

Shoddy-Cherry-490 · 2024-03-23T04:00:50+00:00

I couldn't agree more. It really seems the gender wars have reached another level in recent years.

I subscribe to the idea that the poor gender relations are not necessarily a result of the break down of old gender roles, but that we haven't been able to replace them with anything particularly good. There is an interesting line of argument that birth control and the sexual revolution (among a whole host of developments) have fundamentally altered the dynamics between men and women - not necessarily (but also) power dynamics between the gender but that it has undermined the significance and usefulness of the family as the foundational building block of our society. Without going into much detail, the problem seems to be that the complimentary and synergetic character of male/female relationships has largely disappeared and been replaced by...well, nothing of substance.

So how can we fix it?

Well, I think only open dialogue about gender roles can resolve the impasse we are facing. That and acceptance that the biological dimorphism of human beings also means that our experience of our sexuality should invariably be quite different.

In practice, it would be advisable for men to stop looking at women purely as objects of lust and for physical conquest. In turn, women would be well advised to not dismiss men's very direct and enduringly physical sexuality as simply a sign of lack of maturity. In essence, let's be open to our needs and let's not be ashamed about what we really need...be it physical touch, release, but also emotional security and social acceptance.

redditaccountnam · 2024-03-23T03:19:00+00:00

[permanently deleted]

facelikethunder22 · 2024-03-23T07:25:35+00:00

“Gaslight. Gatekeep. Girl boss.” This is what we’re dealing with…

MistyMaisel · 2024-03-23T14:56:28+00:00

I'm not convinced they're really that broken if I'm totally honest. I think most people are doing just fine and if you wanted to fix things for that majority, you're talking about intense therapy, breaking generational curses, healing trauma, and giving them even more healthy communication patterns. Which I'm not saying can't or shouldn't be done on an individual basis, but, I recognize isn't super likely to happen all at once.

MikeArrow · 2024-03-23T03:02:15+00:00

My hope is that the next generation of men will understand the importance of physical fitness and not let themselves get fat so that they won't be excluded from dating for being too unattractive.

Electrical-Task-6820 · 2024-03-23T04:23:45+00:00

The hope I’ve found is in religion. The divide has definitely encouraged me to embrace my childhood faith even more. It’s given me a purpose, direction, and a framework that helps me solidify my own identity as well as how to interact with the opposite sex. It’s currently working well for me.

The_Forgotten001 · 2024-03-23T03:33:29+00:00

nope, I think the only solution is more interaction with the genders in real life. People only voice their complaints online so you'll hear the loudest voices.

It's considered rude to brag, so happy people aren't going to talk about how great their life is.

Friedrich_Friedson · 2024-03-23T11:15:46+00:00

I know reddit/internet is not a realistic display of real world gender relations but still the fact I can go 5 seconds without seeing something of a sexist nature online says something.

Yeah,that you have to press "non interested" in wack stuff or the algorithm will keep recommending them to you

People go online to share what they really believe or think, and im sure most of these assholes probably would never behave like this in real life, but this angry bitter attitude is bubbling underneath just waiting to come out. I got drunk with a buddy of mine who was fresh out of the military and as the beers went by he got more and more bitter about this girl who rejected him. He raved and screamed for a solid hour about how horrible she was.

Apparently drunk dude raving about rejection with a friend=bitter incel?

Stop taking things to the extremes dude

Express-Fig-5168 · 2024-03-23T14:56:32+00:00

Once again, I am reminded that many people here do not read news in other countries or understand relations outside of their class and neighbourhoods. The ideas never die with them, things won't get better and that is not me saying that from religious PoV that is me saying from an atheistic PoV. An evolutionist will argue that we will evolve past it or whatever but I am no evolutionist even from an atheist PoV.

BandemicBuffering · 2024-03-23T18:21:15+00:00

No. There would have to be a concession that feminism in (Anglo-)Western society has made an overcorrection, or the cultural current that it has created would have to completely push forward and the "where are the real men" question vanishes with the expectation for contemporary men to act in a early/mid 20th century manner being set aside.

Now which one of these is likely to happen?

CentaurSpearman · 2024-03-23T03:25:30+00:00

Pretty simple really:

Lets say a third of the young people around these days don't reproduce, another third only makes 1 kid ever, and the other third produces 2+ kids.
Those that reproduced were able to do so by being attractive, sociable, funny, rich, whatever.
The next generation is more of those things.

Traits that improve reproduction will be increased in upcoming generations, such as:

Being active Being attractive Being cool Being educated Being fit Being from wealth Being funny Being hard working Being smart Being smart with money Being sociable Being street-smart Being well-dressed Choosing family over career Not being too picky Wanting to have kids

Traits that reduce reproduction will be reduced in upcoming generations, such as:

Being anti-social Being autistic Being depressed Being dumb Being gay Being lazy Being obese Being short Being single for too long Being too picky Being wasteful Choosing career over kids Choosing poorly Demanding luxury Mental health issues Not wanting to have kids Physical health issues Riding the carousel too long

Think about people you know who are having kids.

The future generations will look more like them.

Think about people you know who are not having kids.

The future generations will look less like them.

We're in a very cool transition period where people who don't want kids are longer being pressured into making them.

What that leaves us with is people who do want kids outcompeting everyone in terms of raw numbers.

People who aren't drawn towards the opposite sex and aren't seeking children will become rarer.

People who are in a bad way - finances, health, etc. - will become rarer.

Anti-reproductive forces are strongly culling the weak genes from our herd.

We're already seeing nowadays that peoples' heights and IQ's are increasing due to better nutrition.

A hundred years from now, people will be fitter, more beautiful, smarter, and happily procreating due to better genes.

I might live long enough to see some of that come to fruition.

Title	Is there any hope in fixing gender relations?
Author	redditaccountnam
Upvotes	64
Comments	264
Date	March 23, 2024 2:49 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1blhsc8/is_there_any_hope_in_fixing_gender_relations/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/is-there-any-hope-in-fixing-gender-relations.1513113 https://theredarchive.com/post/1513113

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