Immediate sex is not needed to prove desire. You just want sex.

DecantsForAll · 2025-01-19T21:40:52+00:00

You don't want things for the reason you say you want things, you actually want them for the reason I've invented.

barry1988 · 2025-01-19T20:25:37+00:00

Iv dated hundreds of women and slept with a lot too. What iv noticed is this : the ones where women would be physical and intimate with me very quickly (1st or 2nd date) they were really into me and wanted to be my gf/lover. The ones that it took a lot of effort and time to sleep with them they were never into me.

These same women made it easy for men they were into. Women will be sexual a lot quicker with men they are attracted to and women know this from the start. Women will sleep with a man on the first date if she into him. So if she makes u wait she isn't as into you as she was with previous men.

Master-Watercress567 · 2025-01-19T21:02:24+00:00

You're correct to a point. Actual PIV sex isn't necessary. However physical closeness (leaning into you, kissing, hugging eye contact etc) is the best indicator of how attracted to you someone is. I personally wouldn't bother pursuing a second date with someone who wasn't physically affectionate with me from the first date.

If she wants to wait a bit to have full sex of course that's fine, I'd probably rather do that as well.

TopShelfSnipes · 2025-01-20T00:22:11+00:00

Immediate sex was not needed. However, there should be clear interest and a buildup of tension, and things should progress at a pace that feels comfortable to both.

If it felt like she was purposefully holding things back due to arbitrary rules (eg giong hot and then cold, then hot again, and always seeming to get cold feet when things would get steamy), that's just weird.

If there's no spark at all, it was usually pretty easy to read that and there was never any expectation on my end...it was more common on a first date for me to not feel anything and her to want to see me again than vice versa. There was only one time I kept going out with someone like that just to see if something could develop, and it never turned into anything more than casual. I didn't lead her on, though, just tried to see if that could spark something because she was down for it, and it really didn't.

It's logical that desire wouldn't be instant unless someone was looking for a quick hookup, and then that's a very different kind of desire that's much more surface level - easy enough to get if you're good looking, but very difficult to turn into anything more than a ONS or fling, and you honestly leave the experience not really knowing whether or not you like her personality enough to girlfriend her, either.

Doesthisevenmatter7 · 2025-01-19T21:14:16+00:00

The more relationships and hookups I’ve had the more my opinion on this has changed. I don’t really care if it means something or not at this point. I expect sex pretty close to the start or I’d find someone else cause that’s just how it goes with most adults atleast that’s been my experience. My current girlfriend had sex with me the second date and we messed around on the first didn’t really do much waiting tbh.

Boniface222 · 2025-01-19T20:15:15+00:00

Not everyone is the same. You will never have 100% of men thinking one way or 100% of men thinking another way.

You are one step removed from just saying "All men think X". You are just saying "Men who think X, think X. Now let's debate" What is there to debate?

If you make a topic like "Some men like feet and I can prove it!" there isn't much to debate about. You found some men who think a certain way. What is there to discuss?

MrsKML · 2025-01-19T23:44:38+00:00

Full agree. Men are just looking for sex when they won’t continue seeing a woman they enjoy the company of if she isn’t putting out. They are probably missing out on some great women. Their loss 🤷‍♀️.

wtknight · 2025-01-19T20:56:13+00:00

Generally, women invest more into a boyfriend than a hookup, but apparently having a woman invest in you doesnt make you feel special, which is the biggest plus in a relationship.

Men want early sex because it then gives them the power to decide whether to invest in a relationship. The resentment towards women who gave other men early sex but not him is because not only does he not feel as attractive as other men, but because he is being denied this power because the woman has decided to keep it for herself.

JustBuildAHouse · 2025-01-19T21:55:55+00:00

Don’t feel desired when she gives you gifts

I always laugh when you mention this specifically. Just shows how out of touch you are

kwikkwikstudy · 2025-01-19T21:33:25+00:00

You're right, Lilith, some men just want to have sex. But something jumped out at me from your post;

Dont feel desired when she partakes in his hobbies she initially never cared about?
Dont feel desired that she takes time out her day to help him out?
Dont feel desired when she gives you gifts?
Dont feel desired when she takes time out her day to spend time with his friends/family in gathering?
Dont feel desired, even when there’s makeup, flirting, and/or compliment on his appearance?

Some of these things only happen months into a relationship. Don't get me wrong, those are all really great things for a couple to do for each other and stuff I really value. but a man doesn't have to be sex addicted to wonder when sex will happen if they've exchanged gifts, met family and friends, shared hobbies, and become each other's emotional support before having sex. And it's not like you don't hear or read a woman saying it's been X amount of time and he still hasn't made a move, I'm beginning to wonder...."

So immediate sex is a silly and self defeating standard. But men or women are perfectly reasonable for wondering whether the other person is into them or anyone if after X amount of time, dates, times alone at her place or his they haven't had sex. No amount of gift giving or hobby sharing is going to ease my concern that at least we're a mismatch.

shockingly_bored · 2025-01-20T01:53:39+00:00

So men dont feel desired when a woman cares about what he has to say?

So we're friends then.

Dont feel desired when she partakes in his hobbies she initially never cared about? Dont feel desired that she takes time out her day to help him out? Dont feel desired when she gives you gifts? Dont feel desired when she takes time out her day to spend time with his friends/family in gathering? Dont feel desired, even when there’s makeup, flirting, and/or compliment on his appearance?

None of this happens for men unless you are far into a relationship.

BobtheArcher2018 · 2025-01-20T04:49:19+00:00

OP is missing the point. There is a manosphere argument on the table that women are frequently settling for guys they are not very attracted to and then faking it. Or that they often felt more desire for past hookups than the guy they can land for longterm.

Those need addressing before you start analyzing men's reactions to those beliefs. If the assertions are true, it is one world we live in. If they are not, then we live in another.

Equal_Connect · 2025-01-19T22:05:39+00:00

Me personally i think a lot of dudes feel shame for hook up culture because of how hypocritical they look when they want to sleep around all day but want virgin pure wives. I dont attempt to participate in hook up culture because i want a gf more than meaningless sex.

qwertyuduyu321 · 2025-01-19T20:10:31+00:00

Immediate sex is not needed to prove desire. You just want sex.

You’re right with that assumption of yours most of the time I guess.

There are more subtle ways to make sure that a woman is desiring you physically. Doesn’t have to be her legs behind her ears within the first or second date.

I feel that a minority of men, due to a mixture of insecurity and cluelessness, insist on sex very early on.

Most, however, just want to get in your pants and know what they’re doing.

Lingeringlooney · 2025-01-19T21:59:13+00:00

It’s very simple. When a woman is very attracted to a guy she sleeps with him fast unless she forced herself not to (which is rare.) When she’s NOT attracted to the man and she’s trying to convince herself to be with him is when she waits and tries to look at his other character traits.

Friendly_Candy_9454 · 2025-01-20T00:41:52+00:00

How would you define immediate?

lonely-flower37 · 2025-01-20T05:25:38+00:00

As a man I can easily admit that I want to have sex with attractive women I barely know.

The reason I don't really care if she likes what I have to say or what she thinks of me "as a person" is that someone who just met you simply doesn't know who you are. It takes time to get to know someone on this level.

But you know right away if someone is physically attracted to you. You might call it shallow but I think that after knowing each other for only 2 days it's the only honest type of attraction there is.

That said I do think the point about women acting like they are from the victorian era and making men wait so they can vet him is pathetic. Some women just don't want to engage in casual sex for whatever reasons they may have and that's okay (and very understandable imo).

HazyMemory7 · 2025-01-19T22:19:14+00:00

Women ushered in an era in which commitment is not a requirement for intimacy. This is one of the results of that. Outside of a few exceptions (i.e. virgin, or waiting until marriage), if a woman isn't getting intimate with you within like 4-5 dates, she's not attracted to you.

Outside_Memory5703 · 2025-01-19T20:09:09+00:00

Not desire

Maximal desire

The most

The best

Because that’s what’s not-best men deserve and expect

All men should be treated as equally attractive and desirable, because sex is about equality and fairness, not desire

One-Ability-6403 · 2025-01-19T20:13:56+00:00

Men have to push for sex right away because it's what women want. Men that don't go for sex right away are put in the backup bin or seen as friends.

Men might want to date a different way where you can get to know the girl and she will appreciate your wit, intelligence, and personality but women are in charge of the dating market now. So we have to push for sex right away whether we like it or not.

The good news is after you start having sex then, over time, those other things will matter. But if you start with those things then you will not be seen as a sexual being to her.

This of course changes once the woman hits the epiphany at roughly 30. Unfortunately women in the epiphany phase are completely undatable unless you enjoy going out for a job interview.

You are ascribing women's changing behavior, from wanting sexy players to demanding a comforting providers as now she is looking for a relationship. This isn't the change though. Plenty of young girls want a relationship as well, you just can't start it with them unless you start it with sex. The change you are trying to describe is just women hitting the epiphany and running out of time. So they want to skip right to the end. Men don't run out of time so we don't want to do that.

Update; tldr

https://imgflip.com/i/9h8wwq

FrodoCraggins · 2025-01-19T21:31:47+00:00

"I'm totally not perpetuating the Madonna/whore complex. I just believe anyone who wants sex in a relationship is a dirty whore who's only driven by lust and anyone who wants a real commitment would get their parents to arrange a marriage for them before ever touching each other. Anyone who wants to date is a filthy degenerate who only wants sex and nothing more"

PiePie66 · 2025-01-19T21:36:21+00:00

So much to choose from in OP, but the list is remarkable!

“Why stay with a woman that shows no instant desire?” So men dont feel desired when a woman cares about what he has to say?

No.

Dont feel desired when she partakes in his hobbies she initially never cared about?

No.

Dont feel desired that she takes time out her day to help him out?

No.

Dont feel desired when she gives you gifts?

No.

Dont feel desired when she takes time out her day to spend time with his friends/family in gathering?

No.

Dont feel desired, even when there’s makeup, flirting,

No.

and/or compliment on his appearance?

Finally! Yes. This is an indication of desire. Albeit, a meager one, but one few men experience ever.

The entirety of the rest of this list is precisely what a woman who wanted resources from a man would do to entice said man into a relationship with them. If a woman didn't do these things, why would I want to stick around? At best, they are an indication that she can bear to be around me. At worst, they are pure artifice and manipulation.

triple_skyfall · 2025-01-19T21:56:05+00:00

You've been posting multiple times a day on this subreddit for years. Maybe touch grass, Lilith.

giveuporfindaway · 2025-01-19T23:42:59+00:00

Arguments like this are always faith based arguments. They never use any objective metric and are anti-comparison because this would obviously show the emperor has no clothes.

Why don't you start with admitting that this argument is no different than "you should believe in God and you deserve to live a shittier life because God actually says it's a better life".

I'll translate to the above for you: "you should believe in getting less sex and you deserve to live with less sex in life because because I'm actually saying I love you more".

Proudvow · 2025-01-20T01:53:50+00:00

It's necessary if she's put out immediately for another guy.

If not then she clearly needs time to get to know a guy before sex, and that's fine.

Don't get what's so hard to understand about this.

centaurus_a11 · 2025-01-19T20:11:53+00:00

I’ve just read the title and agree with you. But honest question- at what point in the relationship should the woman be willing to have sex?

I’m asking because I’ve been in such a relationship where I was used badly and denied the most basic respect that a partner should be given in a relationship.

I was basically a rebound and even got cheated on. Sex was a very far fetched idea in that toxic relationship.

OkSun6251 · 2025-01-19T20:33:06+00:00

Agreed. Million ways to prove desire and show you are not asexual or not attracted to someone. Coming from a background where waiting for marriage was encouraged(even if you had a past)- so easy. Just the fact it’s a struggle to wait together shows there is desire.

Or that occasionally you do go farther than you want to with kissing or cuddling because you have the hots for each other and wish you could be all over each other. I was so attracted to my husband at first, he’d drive me to our dates and occasionally would stroke my arm in the car while driving and I’d like… make sounds because 🥵. He thought it was cute and hot. He was slow to make any moves because he wanted to respect me and I can tell you… it made me get more hot for him lol. And we did end up trying to wait for marriage. Can’t tell you how many times I voiced to him how much I wanted him and wanted to be married already.

PPD_DailyPoster · 2025-01-19T23:54:07+00:00

Wrong.

Immediate sex = incredibly strong desire.

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just_a_place · 2025-01-20T07:08:40+00:00

Sex is the litmus test to know whether or not a woman is truly interested or just fucking around and wasting our time.

This has nothing to do with hookups. It's just a fact and men know this, even when they fool themselves (blue pill) into simping for a woman that doesn't want them.

'Youre sending a signal that you dont really care about her."

That is exactly the signal a woman is sending when she green flagged the previous battalion of dudes between her legs and then puts the brakes on that one guy because "he is SpEshIAL." Why do women always feel the need to spin bullshit? Just tell the fucking guy that she ain't really attracted to him instead of insulting him.

This may come as a shock to you but our sexuality is not the same as yours. When we know what we want we have no need to draw it out. We also have no qualms about using deception in our favor, because women use it to their own advantage all the time and in every context. You are just mad that we learned women's best deceptive and manipulative tricks and are now shamelessly using your own methods against you to get pussy without love. Women see fit to screw over men for their own gains, we see fit to do the same for our own ends. 😈

When Love is War, all is fair.

Mountain_Sand3135 · 2025-01-19T20:26:41+00:00

"With a hookup, she knows you dont give a damn, so not seeing each other again after the first fuck is expected." --really ...women are OKAY with this and this is their expectation ! I just want to be clear ...that women who have one night stands are OKAY with men ghosting them afterwards?

"Getting an attitude because a woman is trying to get to know you before sex shows you’re not really interested in the long term. You just want to fuck a stranger."

The issue is its not congruent with a man expectation ...YES he wants to fuck a stranger and the biggest question here is the way women flip from "Victorian " and "random penis" at a whim.

One costs a man almost NOTHING in time and money and perhaps he even makes money on the deal and get the cookie all day and night and the other costs men lots of money and time with no guarantee of getting the cookie.

See the dilemma for men?

KissMyAsthma-99 · 2025-01-19T22:06:25+00:00

So men dont feel desired when a woman cares about what he has to say?

Correct.

Dont feel desired when she partakes in his hobbies she initially never cared about?

Correct.

Dont feel desired that she takes time out her day to help him out?

Correct.

Dont feel desired when she gives you gifts?

Correct.

Dont feel desired when she takes time out her day to spend time with his friends/family in gathering?

Correct.

Dont feel desired, even when there’s makeup, flirting, and/or compliment on his appearance?

Correct.

So he ONLY feels desire when his dick is wet?

Incorrect. He will feel desired so long as she's wet for him. It has little/nothing to do with him and everything to do with her.

addings0 · 2025-01-19T22:01:29+00:00

So he ONLY feels desire when his dick is wet? Yeah, he just wants sex.

No. That's a drive. Once it passes, he'll worry about her as a person, regardless if it does right by her or not.

AidsVictim · 2025-01-19T23:06:19+00:00

A high salary starting a job is not a requirement, but if you can get it always means that company wants you more and is the opportunity you should be pursuing.

The concept is almost always the same. The better the "deal" is up front the more you're genuinely desired, the better the outcome is for you.

Shadowcat1606 · 2025-01-19T23:15:17+00:00

It seems you're making too much out of it and overcomplicate things. I think it comes down to one very simple thing - for a lot of men, the sexual part is a more vital part of the "getting to know each other"-phase than it seems to be for women.

For a lot of men, sexual attraction if often quite easily achieved with immediate chemistry and things like optical stimuli, whereas for a lot of women, sexual attraction is more easily achieved through trust and a deeper connection on an emotional level. So in many cases, men will far easier get to a point in a relationship where they are willing to turn things sexual.

It has nothing to do with a lack of interest and unwillingness to commit on either side. Attraction and the progression of a relationship/development of a connection just hinges on different things for men and women.

For women, sexual attraction and chemistry are an eventual end result of forming a deep connection and things falling into the right place. For men, sexual attraction and chemistry are catalysts and motivation for forming deeper connections.

Zed-juuls · 2025-01-20T03:09:25+00:00

I’ve been the side dude, I’ve been the main dude. Most women like to sleep around I’ve seen it all, Cuckhold relationships, people paying to see you do things. The world is sick when you have options.

And these dudes that have “alpha giga chad” yall the dudes that pay for sex and think you’re chad. I don’t know who hurt you in the past but there’s way too many people in this world and when you get most type of people on the world it becomes easy.

Men and women have ruined dating for everyone. No need to be your man if we fucked on the first date and even after you invest time money and effort they still don’t really care for you. Dating is a game just play the game

John_Oakman · 2025-01-19T21:00:27+00:00

It's generally agreed upon that the types of males who are willing to wait for intimacy [in the context of a relationship] for extended periods of time tend to be those with ulterior motives in which the desire for intimacy is subordinate to their primary motivation.

So why is it such a stretch to assume that the other gender may have examples with similar thought processes?

No-Rough-7390 · 2025-01-19T21:32:25+00:00

May not be a requirement, but it surely is a telltale sign of it.

Title	Immediate sex is not needed to prove desire. You just want sex.
Author	LillthOfBabylon
Upvotes	46
Comments	492
Date	January 19, 2025 8:00 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1i57glq/immediate_sex_is_not_needed_to_prove_desire_you/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/immediate-sex-is-not-needed-to-prove-desire-you.1541614 https://theredarchive.com/post/1541614

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