Men falsely claim that women lie about their preferences because they believe men are great.

PenileVolatility · 2026-03-15T13:01:31+00:00

I would reckon this view came about because many, perhaps most men have seen the worst guy they know rack up a porn star bodycount with a string of very attractive women who all have the same bad experiences with the guy down the line in the relationship. The guy in question having so many obvious red flags that only seem to help him attract more women somehow. Meanwhile we see friends we know to be good, who we've seen be good in past relationships and on an interpersonal level go through droughts of any woman giving them a so much as a chance.

It feels like there's something primal at play. Some kind of signaling the "bad boy" puts out there that's overly advantageous in courtship vs other male archetypes. From the "negging" and "social proof" of pick up artists to the "you gotta act like an a-hole to attract 'em" advice many young men receive there's a some kind of systemic acknowledgment that women respond better to traits one likely wouldn't attribute to "good guys". It may only apply to certain demographics of women, a percentage of the whole but dating is after all a numbers game.

Training-Cook3507 · 2026-03-15T13:06:44+00:00

This post is so vague it's difficult to have a specific debate. But the complaint from men is that women say they will want a "good, kind man", which they do. But what they really want is an attractive man, in shape, tall or at least taller than them, who has a good potential career.... If he had all that, then they prefer kind. Men complain that women leave out the most important parts to seem less shallow.

BobtheArcher2018 · 2026-03-15T16:35:58+00:00

Are there more good women to choose from than good men? Not following.

Also, there are correlations between some of the qualities women are biologically attracted to and 'bad' male behavior. How strong these are at scale is an open question.

Toxic_LigmaMale · 2026-03-15T22:47:55+00:00

Lol you’re ignoring the male experience of having mostly male friends, seeing a lot of really good guys being perpetually single, while the shit heads get laid. Keep in mind, I’m not calling them shit heads because I have anything against them personally. They’ve never done wrong by me. But they absolutely do date and fuck indiscriminately, usually successfully.

That’s why men don’t take women at their word. We see what works and what doesn’t.

abaxeron · 2026-03-15T21:26:25+00:00

Which raises the question of what those men mean by being good

Not a rapey scumbag would be a great start, IF women truly have to start somewhere, and IF your post is truly not "Men Ain't Shit, the Thread".

You don't know what happens in chat 1-1 on a dating app, or what happens behind closed doors.

If men are perfect manipulators, then this IS the "Men Ain't Shit, the Thread".

In a sample of 156 heterosexual young adult men, Lalumiere and his colleagues measured rape proclivity with items such as “Have you ever had sexual intercourse with a woman even though she didn’t really want to because you used some degree of physical force?” (Lalumière et al., 1996, p. 303). Separately, they measured self-reported mating success (e.g., “Members of the opposite sex are attracted to me”), sexual history (e.g., age at first sexual intercourse, number of previous sex part ners, number of sex partners within the past year), and relative earning potential (e.g., “Relative to my peer group, my potential income is: Much higher-much lower”). The results did not support the predictions from the mate deprivation hypothesis. Against prediction (1): There was no correlation between estimated earning potential and rape nor between parental income and rape. Against predictions (2) and (3): Men’s mating success positively predicted the likelihood to self-report using force to obtain sex. Men who reported a lot of consensual sexual partners were also more likely to report using force to obtain additional sexual partners. A second study using similar methods corroborated Lalumière et al.’s (1996) results (Malamuth, 1998). A third study including a community sample of Canadian men found that more sexual partners during adolescence—a key marker of short-term mating success—was one of the strongest predictors of sexual coercion (Senn et al., 2000). In short, assuming the validity of these studies, the results are in the precise opposite direction of the prediction posited by the mate deprivation hypothesis. Mealey (2003) described another study that found that college men who admit to behavior that legally meets the definition of rape tend to be more popular, have higher status, and have more consensual sex partners than other college men, the opposite of what the mate deprivation hypothesis of rape predicts. Mealey concluded that popular, high-status, “macho” men, not mate-deprived men, are most likely to rape. All three studies testing specific predictions of the mate deprivation hypothesis, supplemented by Mealey’s (2003) review, lead to the same conclusion: men who lack sexual access appear less likely to use coercive tactics and men who have more sexual access appear more likely to use physical force and other coercive means such as verbal threats. These findings do not just fail to support the mate deprivation hypothesis of rape. They directly contradict its key predictions. Findings from Lankford et al. (2024) provide further evidence against the mate deprivation hypothesis. Their study analyzed sexual harassment and assault among 200 of the most famous celebrities in America. The results strongly indicated that celebrity men, who are often wealthy and high-status, are far more likely to commit sexual transgressions than men in the general population and showed a substantially increased risk of also committing sexual harassment and sexual assault. These findings challenge the mate deprivation hypothesis, as high-status men are often the most likely to engage in sexual misconduct and violence, directly contradicting the idea that mate deprivation is the primary driver of sexual violence.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/400215354_Evolutionary_Psychology_Hypotheses_Are_Testable_and_Falsifiable

PrecisionHat · 2026-03-15T14:10:12+00:00

You have not given any real reasons why you think most available men make or appear to make bad partners. Your post is so vague it is hard to know what you actually mean.

Look, it's not rocket science. Women like good looking men. Duh. Women like them so much that they can often get away with being dicks. Men who are not dicks and really wish women would like them see this and are resentful. Also duh.

The problem has never been women liking good looking men. The problem has been and continues to be the falsehood that women, in general, care more about personality than looks. For a lot of women, that mature mindset only comes after being put through the ringer by dating a bunch of handsome jerks.

Downtown_Werewolf_44 · 2026-03-15T13:08:22+00:00

It's not that women lie it's just that they are hiding a part of the truth.

When they speak to men or in public, they will answer that they are looking for securing traits: Gentle, kind, caring, invested in the relationship. Those are good guys traits. This is the one that men hear about.

When they are speaking between girl, this is not the same thing. I'm the token dude in a girl's gang so I can witness a lot of those discussions. What they are talking about are attractive traits: Tall, athletic, handsome, confident, a little bad boy touch, a great lover. You get the idea.

what's women want is to have the attractive, bad boy, dark triad dude but they want him to threat them like a good guy would do. The bo Burnhan song is spot on "You want a feminist who like to pay for stuff", "sensitive but not weak", "he's a great lover but he isn't attracted to any of your friends and he get along with your mother " (He's spot on on the man part too).

So they are not lying, they are just omiting, by design, the main part of what they are looking for so basically when a man ask "What you are looking for in a man?", the answer he'll get can be translated to "This is how I would like to be threated by a guy I'm attracted to". Most of the time, when this happen to me, my next question is "So this guy, how do you picture him in your head, what does he looks like?" Some will give you a more honest answer, some will refuse to develop, confirming that they are omiting this part volontarily.

I agree with you that women are not looking for bad men on the sens that being cheated on, being in a toxic relationshp or worst, being abused isn't what they are looking for. But they are looking for attractive traits that are sometimes overlaping traits you'll find with abuser, and attractive traits are on the top of their list, so...

I'm just stating facts that most men knows allready: Most of them have display securing qualities to a woman and ended up in the friendzone or allready heard the dreaded "I wish I could find a man like you".

Santa-Teresa · 2026-03-15T13:06:11+00:00

So women think there aren’t enough stable, reliable men to begin with, but they are still more likely to be in a relationship than men (and yes, most of those are heterosexual relationships), simply because they prefer the company of men who they find entertaining…

Honestly, the problem here does lay in being stable and decent not being enough for men to be attractive to women.

TheSkyIsData · 2026-03-15T14:22:08+00:00

So I'll get a lot of hate but I do feel bad for men dating overall. As a woman I feel that most other women in day to day life are not honest about sexuality (for any reason it could be social shame, religious influence, blatant lies for attention, etc), but also most women online are advertising a product. This is what leaves men so confused about what women actually do want. No one is honest, women irl don't want to be mean and women online want to make money/likes/upvotes.

This type of environment is what makes men think women are all emotional with no real sexual/physical desire. Men are claiming women lie, not because they think most men are great, but because they are hearing women say things that don't line up with what they observe in reality.

I'm straight and I actually do admit/am honest with what I find sexy. I love tall men, muscular men, men with beards and a little chest hair and happy trails, with big strong arms. Most women I talk to online would be pissed off about this. They say they like dad bods and personality... I don't know what that means and can't relate. Some men will always love to hear when women younger and hotter than me say they like old fat dudes with good personalities. It's a product they're selling. Inevitably some men will wise up and catch on to this, and start saying women are liars. I don't blame them at all.

But also I think men should be held accountable for things that should be obvious. If you have no desirable traits for women, then you shouldn't be expecting to date a young and thin virgin covered in makeup and implants. So I get where you're coming from, most women wear makeup and use filters and put in all this extra work for men, when MOST men don't do that at all for women. But again, I sincerely think a lot of men think women don't care about being a desirable man, because so many women out here telling men they're hot for 5$

statsfodder · 2026-03-16T00:57:19+00:00

This is no different to those who push the "women are wonderful" lie .. who knew that groups of people think the group they are part of are awesome :O .. I'm shocked

Popeoath · 2026-03-16T05:27:04+00:00

The usual explanation is that women chase attractive men who treat them badly while decent men get ignored, usually simply because of looks (because we all know that attractive people are the bad ones in this narrative).

The guy does not need to be attractive. It doesn't matter if he pulled based off of looks, money, status, or personality. All that matters is that he's harmful, yet still got chosen.

But this argument assumes that there are a lot of appealing “good guys” being passed over.

No, it just assumes that the guys are less dangerous than abusive cheating men.

Most men are perfectly normal, decent people in general. The issue is something more specific. Being a good person isn’t the same thing as being an appealing partner.

Yes, that's what's being pointed out, that morals are largely irrelevant to dating success.

The average dunce on mainstream subreddits still claims that if you can't find a partner then it's because you're an asshole. That's the lie being addressed.

We know people who were socially accepted and considered great people but were horrible to their wives. You don't know what happens in chat 1-1 on a dating app, or what happens behind closed doors.

Yes. Likewise there are probably men who are outcasted socially who would've treated a partner well if they could've ever found one.

Avanni24 · 2026-03-15T12:23:47+00:00

There are good men to choose from. You're just not attracted to/compatible with the most of them, and that's okay.

Ok-Ninja-8165 · 2026-03-15T13:44:03+00:00

There's an assumption that you actually know your own preferences and can express it. You preferences might be your own fantasies about some sort of perfect partner, things that you supposed to want or anything else. So there's no point to care about somebody's stated preferences in the first place.

Altruistic_Look_7868 · 2026-03-15T12:14:58+00:00

Whenever a guy says something along those lines, it makes me laugh. They're really just referring to themselves when talking about "good guys".

Barely-moral · 2026-03-15T13:34:35+00:00

But this argument assumes that there are a lot of appealing “good guys” being passed over. And that’s something many men struggle to evaluate. And the truth is there are just not many good men to choose from.

Nah. Lets take good and bad as a spectrum. Lets put two extremes of the spectrum. Saint like behavior on one side and serial killers on the other side. (We could go even more extreme but this will do)

Serial killers are worse than non serial killers in this spectrum. Serial killers get more women interested in them than a boring non serial killer. Sure that boring non serial killer might not actually be a good person but he is better than the serial killer because he does not kill people.

Guess who gets more women interested in him? Of course... the serial killer.

To be clear, this isn’t about men being bad people. Most men are perfectly normal, decent people in general. The issue is something more specific. Being a good person isn’t the same thing as being an appealing partner. And by partner in this post I mean anything, from partner in casual sex or FWB to a long term relationship.

And that is clearly as you said an issue. Humans follow incentive structures. Men want sex and relationships. As long as women prioritize anything other than moral behavior (being good people) when picking a partner the incentive structure deviates from giving men incentives to be good people and ends up rewarding men for being shit people that are attractive.

Men can often judge other men either from their interactions with them or from some internal sympathy. But their actual behavior with women is much harder to see from the outside.

See the example of the serial killer and the boring non serial killer. What is the excuse there?

And women aren’t choosing between “good men” and “bad men.” They’re choosing among the actual options available to them.

The options available to women include good men. It is a numbers game. Considering most if not all men are interested in a specific woman during at least some period of her life, the options she had included good men for sure.

But that assumption only works if you never see what other men are actually like.

See above.

Outside_Memory5703 · 2026-03-15T18:50:38+00:00

Nope, it’s precisely because men are awful and still get laid

Even I, a feeble woman, know and understand this

midnight_blue77 · 2026-03-15T16:32:45+00:00

No.

We believe women lie because what they say does not correlate or match with what is in reality. We believe women lie because they say one thing and then do another. That's the definition of what lying means.

wolf2424b · 2026-03-15T12:29:18+00:00

In your view, roughly what percentage of men are good men in the sense of being "appealing partners."
In your view, roughly what percentage of women are appealing partners?

Which raises the question of what those men mean by being good, if it's not really enjoyable.

I would answer this question with reference to the grocery store analogy. Some foods, such as cookies, potato chips, and ice cream, are very enjoyable to consume, but in the long term are not very healthy. Other foods, such as fruits and vegetables, are less enjoyable to consume, but are healthier in the long run.

There is a problem with (some) women choosing men who are very sexually exciting but who are almost always players; abusive; etc. over men who are less sexually appealing but much more likely to be solid relationship partners.

Unfortunately, this is a fact which is unflattering to women, so they counter it by pushing two lies:

First is the myth of the Master Manipulator. The bad man who skillfully hides his true self until he has successfully defiled another Maiden. In reality, 99% of the time it's very obvious that a man is bad news.

The second lie is the idea that just about all men are bad people. That even Pointdexter from Accounting, who's been happily married to the same woman for 30 years, is secretly a wife beater and an adulterer.

Werewolf1810 · 2026-03-15T15:54:59+00:00

Yet another long winded example of someone addressing the issue by firing 90 degrees away from the point. For the umpteenth time, the issue is who women are giving a chance to get to know. The vast majority of men that want a given women are ignored; they might be good, they might be bad, of course no one knows until you spend time with them and get to know them.

If, like so so many women, you complain that there aren't "very many good men at all" out there, you're being victimized so to speak, by your own selection bias. Men and women both have a good amount of personality quirks, nobody is perfect, but by and large neither of them are so extreme as to be encompassed by a massive character imbalance in one direction. There are PLENTY of good men out there, you just don't care to get to know them! They are functionally invisible to you

Livid-Log7463 · 2026-03-15T18:54:37+00:00

Choosing “good” or “bad” is irrelevant, women are choosing the most desirable men.

RevolutionaryJob7908 · 2026-03-16T05:42:11+00:00

So 'I get it', but to diffuse the two claims here
-Women pick from actual options (I agree you think your picking from 'actual' options)
-Women are thought to ignore character completely, going for looks (I agree with men saying that.. somewhat, its more like influence from looks)

From my wisdom and experience, Women pick from all the options presented. So if she goes on a dating app...
It doesn't mean those options are actual long term ones.

Then as for ignoring character due to looks, I can test this myself any given month. The difference between me telling a joke from 6 to 8 is ignorance to laughing, to attention. I can figure it out easily.

In short, Looks influence your perception towards men, to ignore how bad they treat you. You'll let them pass. It's a real thing, guys, I know this.

But does it actually matter? To me , no. I feel men do it too when they treat women different. Arguably, I just say men and women are the same in regards today with looks. I try hard to pay most attention to those, (which is at least 50%) man or woman, who treat me kindly and the same.

That's my opinion,.

MichaelsAltMan · 2026-03-17T03:11:07+00:00

"my gender good, other gender bad, please clap"

Shadowcat1606 · 2026-03-15T13:00:45+00:00

False. I think women lie about their preferences because they don't want to make themselves look bad.

Bloodhoven_aka_Loner · 2026-03-15T22:27:20+00:00

Men falsely claim that women lie about their preferences because they believe men are great.

The women are wonderful effect quite literally wipes it's ass with your hypothesis.

DriverInitial8305 · 2026-03-15T13:04:43+00:00

Women are typically shooting out of their league in dating but a lot of guys are also very weird. Like I’ve seen the messages dudes send to women from girls I’ve had flings with and it’s cringe after cringe lines

IridikronsNo1Fan · 2026-03-15T12:16:37+00:00

Being a good person isn’t the same thing as being an appealing partner.

Lol I don't think anyone (at least the red pillers) have ever disputed this. We know that women will always choose the fun douchebag party animal over the stable and reliable guy.

growframe · 2026-03-15T12:42:02+00:00

A common complaint is that women overlook “good guys” and choose the wrong men

"Overlooking good men" is indeed a dishonest framing, but yes, women choose the wrong men. People by and large don't get forced into relationships, so dating a bad man requires that a woman chose a bad man.

But this argument assumes that there are a lot of appealing “good guys” being passed over.

Not necessarily. The options aren't only "good guys" or "bad guys". Women can stay single.

They also lack context from women, and often refuse to empathize or hear women out

Sometimes when you try to hear a woman out, she goes into a tirade about how a man was a machiavellian manipulator, there were no signs and nothing she could've done. There's nothing of value from listening to that.

Siukslinis_acc · 2026-03-15T12:28:34+00:00

There is the "woman A states her preferences, while woman B has different preferences than woman A and acts on her preferences and not woman A's preferences" element.

And yes, a person can show up differently to different people. Like, my grandma was an angel in the public, but a demon privately.

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Believeinyourflyness · 2026-03-15T21:41:57+00:00

funfacts_82 · 2026-03-16T08:39:42+00:00

But men are great. GREAT.

kartu3 · 2026-03-16T15:48:30+00:00

A common complaint is that women overlook “good guys” and choose the wrong men.

Is it?

The usual explanation is that women chase attractive men who treat them badly while decent men get ignored

I see. The point that I have heard was that women chase attractive men even when they treat them badly.

I don't see too much of a blame here. To me this looks like a simple fact.

Men are also increasingly more tolerant to female toxicity with increased female attractiveness.

I think the point that you are missing is that "good guys" attractiveness is a myth. Kindness counts only so much. Almost not at all.

saiyajinstamina · 2026-03-16T17:11:50+00:00

Read the status game. It's a book. Or maybe just read a summary.

It'll explain this social dynamic better. The good vs bad isn't even a factor.

You're making judgement using the wrong factors, and it'll never make sense until you understand what's actually at play.

A married man has status over single men. It's much easier to pick up chicks as a married guy, from personal experience.

Women are attracted to guys who have a plan and know what they want. Confidence, etc. "Good guys" tend to come off as insecure a lot of the time.

SomePrint3788 · 2026-03-15T12:36:06+00:00

Well, yeah. Being a good person doesn't automatically make you an attractive person. Does anyone disagree with that? I'm curious to see the responses.

Also, men and women want different things from a partner. So a man might try and apply his own standards onto other men, not realizing that women are attracted to other things than what he himself values.

Top-Spring9697 · 2026-03-15T12:56:09+00:00

What makes a person harmless (controlled) is by definition not what makes them formidable (free, powerful).

What makes a problem for women is that they are attracted to power, and power by definition means power not to do what you want.

jorts-enthusiast · 2026-03-15T13:45:10+00:00

Any time a guy complains about women choosing bad men over good men, he is just mad that he didn’t get picked and has to make himself feel like a better choice.

Otjahe · 2026-03-15T12:54:28+00:00

I started dating at 14 and have essentially never been rejected.

The common feedback I’ve gotten from women to why they like to hang out with me is "because I’m so not like the other men". That’s not me trying to be a pick me or putting others down, just giving literal direct feedback.

I think the truth is quite simple: be a person people enjoy hanging out with, and odds are they’ll want to continue to do so.

I’m a very calm person with 0% ego and I’ve always been just as comfortable alone. I just make people feel safe, heard, calm and happy through laughs. I never ever bring stress or burdens or anything else negative.

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going__nowhere · 2026-03-15T12:39:02+00:00

These men have some main character syndrome belieiving being "stable" means not having a job, or living with your parents in your 30s, like in that other post a girl comented earlier.

They need some reality check, and probably some friends have told them this before, but they just don't want to believe them, so the friends stop mentioning it to them. So the ideas keep growing.

Title	Men falsely claim that women lie about their preferences because they believe men are great.
Author	Lemon_gecko
Upvotes	6
Comments	282
Date	March 15, 2026 12:10 PM UTC (4 months ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1rucglr/men_falsely_claim_that_women_lie_about_their/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/men-falsely-claim-that-women-lie-about-their.1575551 https://theredarchive.com/post/1575551

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