How come it is almost never considered that a guy can develop feelings for a woman he is friends with and that he just became friends to get into her pants?

Dr_Click_Click_Boom · 2024-01-30T22:57:11+00:00

The way a man trying to take things to a romantic level with a female friend is framed depends on the woman's response, not the man's motives. If she's agreeable to escalating things then it's a cute "how we met" love story they can tell their friends and possibly kids/grandkids. If she's not agreeable then he's suddenly a creep who only pretended to be her friend to get in her pants.

Same man, same action, same motive but it's framed completely differently based on the woman's response.

Hoopy223 · 2024-01-30T21:56:43+00:00

Most people understand that it’s perfectly normal and natural to develop feelings for someone else over time. It just happens.

MongoBobalossus · 2024-01-30T22:13:53+00:00

Shit happens. Sometimes you develop feelings for a female friend. Sometimes it’s reciprocated, sometimes it isn’t.

sublimemongrel · 2024-01-31T02:57:20+00:00

It’s completely normal for a man to develop romantic feelings this way. And women tbh. Every man I’ve been attracted to developed similarly. You should not feel ashamed. I think you’re confusing online statements about so called “nice guys” which is different.

AcephalicDude · 2024-01-30T21:35:22+00:00

I think most people understand that going from friendship to romantic relationship is basically a high-risk / high-reward gamble. High-risk in the sense that you are likely to ruin the friendship when you let them know you have feelings for them. High-reward in the sense that you are already friends, you already know you enjoy spending time with the person and have all the ice-breaking out of the way.

SignifyingNothing5 · 2024-01-30T21:48:02+00:00

Acquaintances date all the time. Sometimes those people were friends first, and sometimes they were friendly acquaintances. But either way it developed organically.

It's different to know you like a woman romantically and then to perform as a friend in order to later move that friendship toward romance. That's what gets criticized.

ETA, apparently "toward" is not spelled "rowatrd". Who knew?

fakingandnotmakingit · 2024-01-30T21:53:25+00:00

The difference is tua people have a hard time drawing the line between "friends" as in "i am a friendly acquaintance" and "friends" as in "i am your friend"

platonic friends to romantic relationships happen, it's high risk high reward. And also women do have experiences with guys who pretend to be friends but aren't. So they all get lumped together.

Friendly acquaintance is basically "we're friendly, getting to know each other, and we're essentially vibing" and that's a good time to make a move. Because you're not a random stranger they have met once. But you're not an actual friend

Friedrich_Friedson · 2024-01-30T21:46:13+00:00

Litterallly most relationships start as friendships first. Most people understand that you can be friends with someone and theb become a couple.

The people who say ""well maybe you shouldn't have become friends with her just in the hopes of sex." either say it about people who just fake friendship while just wanting to fuck,or are quite harsh for no reason after a friendship didn't successfully became a relationship

his_purple_majesty · 2024-01-30T22:27:10+00:00

because men bad

BlzzdSuxDix · 2024-01-30T23:50:51+00:00

Have you ever had a real life relationship? Are these online relationships youre talking about or irl ones? By friend do you mean you are coworkers and she is friendly to you or do you actually have a long established multi-year relationship where you havent been trying to get into her pants?

Oftentimes I hear complaints from males who “fall” for their online female friends often. Women who arent idiots will see that youre shopping around and also see that these men are only friends for a few weeks or months before they let their true intentions known and theyre usually not even that good of friends in the first place

WilliamWyattD · 2024-01-31T01:01:12+00:00

Yeah, while some friendzoned guys are what Gad Saad calls 'sneaky fuckers', i.e. betas who know they can't compete straight up, so are trying to use covert methods to get laid, the vast majority of these guys are decent.

The main problem is the still present belief in men that you can 'win a girl over' by showing how much you love her, would be loyal, etc. Part of the reason young men believe that is that under certain conditions, this can work and even be decisive. But a lot of young men don't understand what those conditions are. For one, they include her finding you sufficiently attractive.

mr8p6h · 2024-01-30T21:36:07+00:00

I've always found this somewhat contradicting advice interesting and would like to hear others thoughts about the topic.

When you ask for advice from multiple people, you're going to get conflicting advice. Maybe try someone you trust IRL instead of pill-based subreddits.

NarwhalsInTheLibrary · 2024-01-31T00:46:23+00:00

if a friend has actual feelings and wants a relationship, then it doesn't seem like he just wanted into her pants. that could become awkward if it isn't mutual, and maybe the friendship is destroyed or people need time away to get over it, but it isn't generally seen a malicious. It can be really good and in most cases if the friendship is strong and genuine it is fine.

but it is hurtful if a guy who you thought was your friend tries to have sex with you and if you don't want to he lashes out in anger and then no longer wants anything to do with you. When it just seems like "I was nice to her and she won't even fuck me! what's she good for anyway?" that seems really shitty and like the whole thing was lies. Notice no mention of catching feelings or wanting a relationship here, and the guy's attitude is that friendship itself has no value because she is just a sex object.

apresonly · 2024-01-30T23:45:47+00:00

I had no idea this was never considered.

No-Delay-195 · 2024-01-31T07:07:21+00:00

I have a lot of male friends, and I always assume that they genuinely want to be friends with me. do I believe that most of them would sleep with me if given the opportunity? sure. but I don't think that means we aren't also friends.

MistyMaisel · 2024-01-31T01:32:17+00:00

So, there's different things going on here. But first and foremost, it does sound like you were becoming friends to date, doesn't it? And I'm not saying that as a gotcha, but a logical observation. Step 1, you struggled with dating and then heard try being friends. Step 2, you tried to be friends (presumably to improve your dating). Step 3, failure and a feeling of contradiction.

The flaw in what happened wasn't the advice, it was the misunderstanding. Women are not telling you to be friends to date them really. They're telling you to literally interact with women with no ulterior motives and certainly not to improve your romantic KDR. They're also often telling you to slow down and get to know women before you blindly start asking for a phone number. There's tiers of friends, and if you're into a woman, you should be like well acquainted friends, not gay braiding each other's hair best friends to ask her out.

Next, no one is really mad about a dude they've been decent or even close friends with growing in affections, realizing he has feelings that weren't there before, deciding to ask her out, and then doing that. Trust me, I've had that dude as a friend and I still have dudes like that as friends after the rejection.

The problem comes when one of two things happens - 1, he stops being your friend when you refuse to go to the next level and it's like all of a sudden, not really any communication. This dude may not have been your super gay unicorn bestie for so long to get in your pants, but the rate at which he chucks away such a close and important friendship over feelings that could have easily come and gone makes you feel like a sex object. It makes it feel like that ultimately, given the choice between your friendship and your vagina, he wanted the latter and so much that he chucked away years of a good thing. This isn't quite the same as only being friends to fuck, but it gets roped in a lot because the motivations of the dude doing it are often the same "I want pussy and I will treat this woman like she isn't a real person to get it. It's not a perfect one to one translation, but it's pretty close.

He doesn't ask you out, but rather spends weeks, months, and years having this sort of one sided parasocial relationship with you where he's pretending like you're his girlfriend, pretending you're dating, pretending all this stuff means something it doesn't, and then flips a switch when he's finally confronted with the fact that you aren't seeing you two like that. And then usually there's a blow up somewhere in there and he storms off saying, "I guess I shouldn't be friends with girls". Bro, you weren't being her friend all that time.

My biggest advice to avoid all of this, if there's any chance you think you may wanna date this girl down the road, always be flirting. Always keep that romantic tension. Keep the "will they won't they" in this acquaintanceship/friendship. Be flirty friends. Flirty friends is real.

no_usernameeeeeee · 2024-01-31T02:00:12+00:00

i think being friends first only works if you’re still in highschool or college, if you’re older than that, don’t think this advice is for you. Unless you genuinely just happen to be friends with a girl and it’s organic. Usually i’ve seen it happen when people have friend groups in common. But if you want to date women, just focus on dating them.

ConanTheCybrarian · 2024-01-31T11:45:22+00:00

it's almost like women are people?

and people are....unique?

and following one-size-fits-all advice, as though it will produce the same outcome each time

....doesn’t work?!

Bikerbats · 2024-01-30T22:59:44+00:00

I see your problem dude, you don't get how it's supposed to work. You're skipping a step. You're befriending women as step 1, and asking them out as step 2. It's 1, befriend women, 2 if you have feelings see if she's giving signals that you should ask her out. Step 3 is entirely predicated on the answer to both parts of step 2. Only when the answer is yes to both parts should you make your play.

BCRE8TVE · 2024-01-31T02:40:28+00:00

Your mistake lies in assuming that making friends with women is good or not depending on the man's feelings. It's not.

A man making friends with a woman, and then escalating things romantically, is good completely regardless of his feelings, everything is judged as good or bad depending on how she feels about it.

She wants a friend and you don't ask her out? Good.

She wants a friend then fall for you and wants you to ask her out? Good.

She wants a friend and you ask her out when she doesn't want to, and you fail to return to the exact same friendship before asking her out and can't quash your feelings completely for her benefit? Bad

She wants a friend and falls for you but you don't ask her out? Bad.

What is good or bad is dependent entirely on how she feels about it and has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with whether the outcome is good or bad for him.

When you see things in this perspective it all makes sense. You just gotta be a mind reader and give women whatever they want at that moment regardless of your own feelings.

Almoat all the advice women give men in dating actually helps out women in the end. It makes men present themselves more to women do women have an easier time choosing. The advice is not for men's benefit, it's to the benefit of the women that man will try to meet, to make it easier for that woman to choose him or reject him.

Almost everything in society boils down to that, things are good or bad depending on whether it is good or bad for the woman, regardless of the man's feelings or intent.

AngeCruelle · 2024-01-30T23:40:17+00:00

Because a lot of the time it really is just about sex. One of my close female relatives warned me by talking about the time one of her friends literally called her up after finding out about her engagement, congratulated her...and asked her if he could hit at least once before she tied the knot. This is why she no longer believes in having anything more than surface level interactions with men who aren't blood relatives or her husband.

Cethlinnstooth · 2024-01-30T22:26:33+00:00

Oh we know it can happen. It's how a lot of relationships happen. We all know couples who started as friends.

But often, if it isn't going to become a relationship then once it all reaches a crisis point a bunch of evidence emerges from the guy's mouth pointing to what actually did happen. For example if he appears more upset about losing the "effort" and "resources" he put into the friendship than about possibly losing the friendship itself...well that sort of points to a degree of calculatedness and him never having valued the friendship itself all that much and that he had his eyes firmly on a sexual relationship he assumed had to happen, doesn't it?

You don't get that plausible deniability about your motives unless you can resist saying and doing certain things you may very much desire to say and do if it was all about getting a sexual relationship.

Secret_Sorbet_9674 · 2024-01-31T06:42:29+00:00

Have you tried being attractive and not being unattractive?

Vinylforvampires · 2024-01-31T11:40:48+00:00

Eh, it's how you go about it. Women can absolutely tell if you are just being friendly to them just to try and get in their pants. We men really aren't that subtle, you have to try to be subtle in that regard.

Also, for the men, really be honest on why you want to be friends with her. Like do you really have anything in common with her? Or do you just like the way she looks in that cute outfit she wears to work.

I do agree it's better to be friends first, but don't try to go about it like you're trying to trick her.

Guys that get criticized for what you are talking about, I guarantee they went about it the wrong way

AnonPinkLady · 2024-02-01T10:10:25+00:00

Okay this is a really good conversation worth having for once and it kind of bothers me too that people reduce romantic feelings to only sexual desire. I think some people say it because they assume you stopped being nice to her the moment she rejected you as if you stopped caring about her entirely when the physical aspect of a relationship became off the table but I just generally find this language reductive

Agile-Explanation263 · 2024-01-30T22:21:52+00:00

Again its not its just a womans way to attack a mans character to try and "manifest" what she wants for herself and other women.

"I'M SO VALUABLE PEOPLE CAN EVEN CRUSH AND SMOTHER THIER OWN FEELINGS JUST TO REMAIN MY FRIEND, LOOK AT HOW MANY VIRTIOUS PEOPLE I ATTRACT BY MY OWN VIRTUE."

Fact of the matter is most guys who are friends with a girl they liked are already doing that and it likely kills them inside. Its 50/50 if most women actually want to remain friends or if they don't have the guts to actually reject a guy they may actually enjoy being around. To do that would shatter womens world view or most womens worldview that personality is what matters the most.

Truth is you could be active friends with 100s of girls and be caring, funny, give real advice etc and none of them would even think about being romantic with you because the end all be all with initiating any romance is looks.

januaryphilosopher · 2024-01-30T22:23:17+00:00

If, when you discover that there's no chance of sex or relationship happening, you decide that the friendship is useless, it seems like you didn't actually want to be friends. You can get to know someone without making them a friend or leading them on to think you want something you don't really. Trying to change the kind of relationship you have with someone who has agreed to a different kind of relationship with you is always going to be risky, although when it works it usually works well.

BigZaddyZ3 · 2024-01-30T21:38:46+00:00

“Become friends with her first” has always been horrible advice tbh. If she doesn’t find you attractive enough to date upon the first or second meet up with you, she likely never will. (Barring some huge “glow-up” on your part I guess.)

The same works in reverse, it’s unrealistic to think a guy “all of a sudden” wants to fuck his friend just randomly out of the blue. The attraction was likely always there. So to most people, it sounds disingenuous to say that you randomly out of the blue developed a sexual attraction to someone. It just doesn’t typically work like that. So most people won’t buy that narrative.

There’s a reason that games like “smash or pass” and “fuck, marry, kill” exist. Most people know instantly whether they’d ever hook up with someone. And trying to “win them over” through a fake friendship rarely ever works. It’s not that people never consider what you’re describing, that just usually isn’t the case for most guys in the “friendzone”. Most of those guys intentionally put themselves there thinking they’ll eventually climb their way out of it. Rarely works tho in reality.

Safinated · 2024-01-30T22:07:43+00:00

It doesn’t matter why or how

What does matter is that our bodies are more important to you than our brains

excess_inquisitivity · 2024-01-31T02:03:37+00:00

Many (most? all?) women see men as incompletely human.

mackenzie013_02 · 2024-01-31T02:07:00+00:00

Getting to know someone in a romantic context and getting to know someone to develop a friendship are two separate paths and goals. Doesn’t mean you can’t skip from one to the other, but let’s not pretend that that’s not true.

ShelterNo2786 · 2024-01-31T02:19:14+00:00

Because if you are friends with a women you find sexually attractive how can you not have romantic feelings towards them?

KayRay1994 · 2024-01-31T04:38:54+00:00

Because most guys tend to befriend women with the intention of getting her to like him - and even then, the active habit of suddenly ghosting/distancing/disappearing after a rejection kinda creates that assumption.

Generally speaking, if you communicate that you just need time alone to get over things but fully intend to continue the friendship once you’re past it, this shouldn’t be an issue - and if she still assumes that when you communicate this clearly, then she isn’t respecting your boundaries and needs and she’s in the wrong

Flightlessbirbz · 2024-01-31T12:42:05+00:00

I don’t think this is “almost never considered,” it’s something that happens and most people know that. But why do people assume it’s the other a lot of times? Because a lot of times it is. Most/many men don’t try to be just friends with women unless they are hoping to turn it into a sexual/romantic relationship. And their reactions when rejected by their “friends” attest to that.

Being friends first can be a great way to start a relationship - as long as you make your intentions known before it turns from a casual friendship to a close one. The mistake is in waiting way too long to the point there are going to be major hurt feelings on both sides if the interest isn’t mutual.

TermAggravating8043 · 2024-01-30T22:13:11+00:00

It’s from men that watch too much porn and don’t think of woman as people

Stunning-Spirit5275 · 2024-01-30T21:47:08+00:00

Because according to the modern feminist gynocentric paradigm, men are born with clunge on the brain and it's all they think about untill they die. Even when they are in love, it's not love but rather a feeling they confuse for wanting clunge. Because they are incapable of any actual human emotions outside of those clunge related

r2k398 · 2024-01-30T23:34:41+00:00

I would never want to be friends with someone I am attracted to. Even more so if I am in a relationship.

silverhippo15 · 2024-01-31T00:32:20+00:00

Women themselves know there's not much more to them so the concept doesn't register in their brains

Striking_Coat5481 · 2024-01-31T01:15:09+00:00

Because why don’t they just have a same gender friend? Most people feel more comfortable with their same gender, they feel each other more.

gntlbastard · 2024-01-31T14:41:39+00:00

Because men are by default considered evil and up to no good. By default that is the position society takes. Unless he has a female who can vouch for the fact that they were friends and it all developed "organically." Like any of it fucking matters.

campskills21 · 2024-01-30T23:00:39+00:00

I think you can be friends with a girl you already slept with, or friends with a girl in a friend group.

I think you are reading into what guys are trying to tell you and maybe girls do. If you act interested and she isn’t move on, don’t be an orbiter, don’t be a simp, the best thing you can do is get a girlfriend and she might be bummed she missed out.

People want to see guys who are not having dating success to get a girlfriend so they can be happy and feel affection. Any thought process like this will hold you back from finding the girls that are interested in you.

SteveSan82 · 2024-02-01T05:04:20+00:00

Every female friend I had I slept with except 1

AceOfSpadesGymBro5 · 2024-01-31T06:49:02+00:00

I think the whole idea of attraction taking a long time to develop is ridiculous and unrealistic. You are either sexually attracted to a person or you are not. That doesn't mean that you will necessarily make a move or that you consider them a good dating prospect.

Individual_Speech_10 · 2024-02-02T13:27:20+00:00

Because then he wouldn't stop being friends with her after being rejected

one_time_animal · 2024-01-31T03:34:16+00:00

Becoming friends in a work environment or because you're in the same group is natural/normal. Spending any time trying to get them together 1 on 1 or texting is beta bitch trying to sneak in the back way. I just do not believe it. I've never believed it. Not once ever seeing a girl and her 'friend'. It's always been one trillion percent he's trying to sleep with her.

But she knows it and likes the attention so whatever. Women aren't innocent there. Get a female friend bitch. Get a drinking group or something bitch.

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Cactus2711 · 2024-01-30T22:43:36+00:00

I re read this several times and still don’t understand the question

No_Constant7907 · 2024-01-31T04:09:00+00:00

My current crush I had no feelings for when I met her. I actually was very guarded around her at first. Because it felt like she might have been trying to trick me into a relationship. But after about 6 weeks of knowing her, something changed and Idk when or how. I guess of just getting to know her better. I developed feelings. Now I'm the one who wants a relationship. I think she does too. But I doubt it will happen.

TristanAurelius · 2024-01-31T08:19:53+00:00

I honestly think it is just true that most men can’t be friends with a woman without considering her an “option”. I can, therefore my friends’ boyfriends are often wary of me, but I respect their feelings and never do anything like kiss my friends on the cheek or get too touchy. We hug occasionally. I just always think about the guy because I’d want someone else to do the same.

Aromatic_File_5256 · 2024-01-31T11:01:29+00:00

Depends on the woman you are approaching and how you do so. Some guys get too pushy , but also some women are too dogmatic about it after getting burned out before(previous guy that was actually only trying to get into her pants from the beginning) or due to how they were raised.

Also people tend to assume that if things went bad you had ill intent. Similarly happens in general when men fail at dating we often get the infamous "if you treated women like people you would be doing fine"

Intrepid-Rip-2280 · 2024-01-31T12:21:40+00:00

Well, it won't be as easy as in eva ai app, but it's still achievable. Become more caring, more active

ladyindev · 2024-01-31T13:01:16+00:00

I can see how it’s contradictory and I think part of that reason is because humans are completely predictable maps and society isn’t completely a machine where you can follow a formula and expect the same results as the next person. A lot of this depends on your social skills, how you come across, how well you read the room to know which potential targets are appropriate, so to speak, and that not everyone will respond to the same approach because women are not a collective hive brain or monolith. One woman may be okay with you gaining feelings after building a close friendship because she feels the same, you’ve successfully built attraction (it’s not a one sided thing ofc), or she doesn’t like you that way but can empathize and still be friends without being uncomfortable. The next woman will think that you’ve been dishonest and feel creeped out. Tbh, I wonder how you would feel if she doesn’t feel the same either. This isn’t just about how women react. How many times have we heard men online complain that they find it insulting to be friend zoned? So if she’s not weirded out but not interested and wants to keep you as a friend, are you cool sitting on the side lines and hearing about her dating, relationship, and sex life? Will those feelings go away enough for you to be comfortable and respect her boundaries? For a lot of men, the answer to both of those is no. You may pretend to be okay, but you may also be embarrassed by rejection and kind of want to fade out to build distance and heal yourself or detach.

Also, there may be a middle ground between “actual friends” and “getting to know someone first.” You could get to know them in group settings instead of getting super close one on one, or keep things to a short period of getting to know them (hanging out a few times) opposed to spending a long time getting to know them if you’re interested from the beginning.

Otherwise, if you developed feelings and never intended to and had no interest from the beginning, just say that. Again, you’d ant control other people’s feelings anymore than you could control this development of your own feelings. If you’re going to tell them and try to change your relationship, you always have to accept possibility someone isn’t going to be okay with that change and may want to end your friendship or take some time being less close or apart.

People hate this advice but a lot of men need to focus on loving themselves, accepting themselves, being happy and confident in their lives and doing things that accomplish that, and talk to a therapist. It could do wonders if you tried it.

darkwindhowls · 2024-01-31T13:55:10+00:00

I find it interesting that you fail to have figured the main lesson out: why are you complaining about failure to other people, if you are a man?

First, people love to moralize and pontificate despite not having any real experience with what you're going through --- how could they? They're not you.

Second, you need a clearer understanding of social dynamics and women to answer your question.

The kneejerk reactions to your statements are designed to shield the woman from any accountability for her decision. She decides to not be your friend because you said you loved her? Stop being friends with women to fuck them, creep! You say you want to fuck when you first meet her and it doesn't go well? Stop just demanding to fuck women without getting to know them, you creep!

If women are in a state of hypoaccountability, that means men have hyperaccountability. Do you notice that your "nuance" you wonder why people fail to apprehend seems off the radar? That's why. Women bear 0% of consequences of social outcomes, men bear 100%. So if the social interaction with the woman went bad, guess what? it was your fault now fuck off.

That is all you're going to get from society.

You're a man. The prime directive = WIN. OR ELSE SHUT THE FUCK UP.

The results are all that matter.

Hepa_Approved · 2024-01-31T15:47:26+00:00

There’s never nuance in the debates. Nice/considerate people who also happen to be men are actually just devious self interested lusting apes like everyone else apparently.

Critical_Corner_1859 · 2024-01-31T16:11:02+00:00

I think that we should view wanting sex with someone as less perverted and weird than we do now. Sex can also be pure, a way of expressing love and affection. It's ok to want to bang your friends. Not sure why it's predatory. You can wanna bang and still see them as full people with enjoyable company.

KorinTowerFreeloader · 2024-01-31T17:43:38+00:00

I find it interesting that it is never taken into account that you can naturally develop feelings for friends, rather than having an exterior motive.

If the guy is hot, then he must have developed feelings. If the guy is not hot, then he must have had exterior motives. Close thread :).

hari_hbp · 2024-01-31T17:49:10+00:00

Because men.

WowYouMustBeJoking · 2024-01-31T17:50:14+00:00

That's because no one cares about your feelings. If you're unattractive how dare you want anything from her? And if you are attractive, then that's not a problem and no one talks about it anyway and turns out she always saw your friendships as "talking".

analt223 · 2024-01-31T19:35:43+00:00

As somebody who this just happened to (i didnt really have feelings for her until over time), i will say people do kinda view me as a weak bitch for "not making the move immediately"

GlobeUnited · 2024-01-31T19:36:29+00:00

It's a good question. There's a subtle but very important difference between trying to take a platonic friendship in a romantic direction, and getting to know each other on the path to a romantic relationship. Looking back at times when I ended up getting romantically involved versus "friend-zoned", it's important to send signals from the start of the relationship that your interest is romantic, even if you also take the time to get to know each other well before entering a romantic relationship.

Zealousideal_Bit930 · 2024-02-01T00:15:45+00:00

As an uglier man I’ve felt it was always sort of necessary that I got to know the woman first as friends before asking them out. Doing it the other way felt like I was leading with my wrong foot forward, because there wouldn’t be anything to go off of apart from my physical appearance if I made my feelings known right off the bat, which is obviously worth nothing. If they got to know me then I’m able to demonstrate my stronger attributes and let those shine through instead.

BUFFBOYZ4Lyfe · 2024-02-04T18:41:31+00:00

Only very rarely does being friends first works. That crap only happens in Media. Be upfront about your feelings right off the bat.

FrancoDownUnder · 2024-02-11T01:19:37+00:00

Smart men are walking away the juice is not worth the squeeze, MGTOW makes more sense in 2024 than 2020 did

FrancoDownUnder · 2024-02-11T01:21:31+00:00

I will never be friendzoned, would rather spends time money resources on my hobbies, I dont want to be someone to be handy to install AC or fix her car ect

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