Q4M: Why do you misunderstand or malign well-intentioned dating advice?

aslfingerspell · 2025-05-03T17:07:15+00:00

We don't feel like we're welcome as single men in communities. We only feel welcome as people. We can "read the room", it's just that we have no idea of what a room with women who want to be approached looks like.

We understand that hard work is required. We just don't see results from it. I've joined tons of hobbies and clubs over the years but I rarely meet single women looking for a man.

We're also more socially aware than people give us credit for. For example, we don't want to ask put one person in a friend group, then another, because the second one might feel angry at being second choice.

meisterkraus · 2025-05-03T18:54:31+00:00

Because dating advice given to men that can't attract women is useless and amounts to stop complaining. You have to teach these men to be attractive to women. I spend lots of time around women, that has not made any of them attracted to me.

All the advice is be a functioning adult or skips all the steps and goes right to the point after women find you attractive.

PhaseExtra1132 · 2025-05-03T19:19:23+00:00

⁠Most communities explicitly due to women’s request are against men joining to find wives.
⁠Even if you find one. 90% of the time it’s mostly dudes. Every soccer league every meetup. Every startup incubator I’ve been to has been just dudes.
⁠None of this matters if you’re ugly. You need to fix this issue before all else. Lose the fat. Get ripped. Fix your style and get a good haircut.

And once you do 3. Or if you can do 3. Then community no longer becomes necessary since you can just make a good dating app profile.

RayAP19 · 2025-05-03T16:29:19+00:00

The reason I don't take a lot of dating advice seriously is because it typically just involves some combination of "Be attractive, don't be unattractive, and do what women want because if you don't, another man will."

Case in point, I do not pay for first dates. We go Dutch or we don't go out. As a result, I don't really ever go on dates (yes, I know lots of women are fine with this, but different demographics and subcultures exist).

There's no dating advice for that. I'm already tall, handsome and in shape, if not slim (and I'm lean bulking anyway). I smile when I talk. I'm charming. I'm intelligent. I have a good sense of humor. I treat people well. I communicate. I'm emotionally available. I'm consistent.

There's no advice for me beyond "Pay for dates with ostensible strangers," which I refuse to do.

Alarmed_Load8145 · 2025-05-03T18:26:25+00:00

I get what you are saying, but it is reasonable to conclude that if the advice you receive never gets you anywhere, it's pretty much useless advice, and there is no point in listening to it. Let me do this by way of analogy. Suppose that I really wanted to learn how to be better at sewing and went to someone who knows how to sew for advice. The advice they give me doesn't really make me any better at sewing. Would a reasonable person keep asking them for advice on how to sew? It's hard to make a case to someone that they should continue to listen to advice, even if it probably won't get them anywhere. There is a difference between advice working only some of the time and advice working none of the time. One might be more receptive to advice in the former than in the latter. For instance, if someone is told "just be yourself", this rests on the premise that they haven't been doing that to begin with. If they have, what good is that advice? Additionally, it is completely and utterly useless advice, because I sure hope that someone who wants to be in a relationship is not trying to enter it under a false pretense, i.e., that they are someone that they're not. Guys who are mildly successful in dating at best are kinda tired of rinsing and repeating, i.e., doing things that might work but ultimately don't. They want advice that is more likely than not to work, and I can't blame them for it.

MistaCreepz · 2025-05-03T20:35:22+00:00

Dating advice in general is fucking stupid, especially if its from women.

WhiteLotusGauntlet · 2025-05-03T18:42:39+00:00

For most of it I think "well-intentioned" is a good term, as opposed to calling it "effective" advice.

A lot of the advice on this sub is more things that the people giving it wished worked rather than things that actually work. Almost all of the advice comes from women or from men who haven't gone on a first date in the last 5 years, and often not in the last 10 years.

I'm somewhat different from most men on here because I'm older, in my mid 30s, and have had dating success in the past. I was with one partner during and after college for almost 5 years and we would've gotten married if we could have made grad school and jobs work in the same city.

So when I see "well-intentioned" advice from people who haven't been on a first date since the mid 2010s, and it's the advice I followed back in the mid 2010s, I understand where they're coming from. Unfortunately, I also know it doesn't work anymore. Women are different now, and I don't know how to change them back or even if it would be morally ok to change them back even if we could.

I wish meeting in person through friends or hobby groups or whatever was the best strategy. It worked for me back in the mid 2010s, it's what I feel most comfortable with personally, I wish that was the thing to do. But, I can read the data and I know a majority of new couples are meeting online when you look at recent data. I have friends who are starting to date and getting married and they are almost exclusively meeting online. The ones that aren't are meeting while still young enough to be in college or meet at work where the woman initiates.

So if you're a guy whose 25 or older, I can give you a bunch of well-intentioned advice that won't work, or I can tell you to get to swiping and optimize your pictures on the apps. As much as I would like other advice to be effective, it isn't, it's just well-intentioned.

AlphaEcho971 · 2025-05-03T16:27:28+00:00

In all honesty, the best advice for dating is being attractive, everything else is just hot air. Being attractive will get you laid faster than any other options.

Neptune-Jnr · 2025-05-03T20:00:23+00:00

The advice is useless and framed in a hurtful manor most of the time. It's less advice and more people trying to prove a point.

this is a quick summary of the advice people give men on the internet.

"Obviously you have to change you're entire shitty personality. Why would a woman whose allowed to have flaws be ok with you if you have a single flaw and aren't constantly self improving? Also, Stop being a misogynist women hate misogynist and will only date a good person. If you're single that clearly isn't you. Also you can't bank on being a good person getting you points with women. Just be yourself, unless of course you have hobbies that random people on the internet deem as lame or unproductive. Do things like going to boring ass bars and nightclubs. Don't forget to shower and get haircuts that never fails. If you're struggling with you clearly neglect your hygiene"

Maybe a bit of an hyperbole but that's pretty much what people say when you ask for dating advice.

Legitimate_Poem_6634 · 2025-05-03T16:50:54+00:00

I've followed all of the standard advice (Meetups, hobbies, make women friends, etc.), and those strategies have the same fatal flaw: The women there, by and large, don't want to be approached. Or if they do, they don't want to be approached by me. I'm ugly and there's no cheat code for that.

man-frustrated · 2025-05-03T17:00:19+00:00

False premise; I don't misunderstand or malign well intentioned dating advice. I do malign disingenuous dating "advice" though.

SherbertDense1415 · 2025-05-03T16:58:22+00:00

It matters less that you know what you should do if you feel incapable of doing it.

This especially applies to matters of personality and socializing.

Boring guys don't become fun charismatic guys overnight or maybe ever.

But a lot of the rhetoric about looks this, height that, is indeed simple ignorance from the young men here. Missing the forest for the trees. Because dating and attraction and sex is such a complex dynamic, people zero in on certain things, it makes them feel grounded and that they have a bead on things, but in reality they are ignorant and flailing.

Logos1789 · 2025-05-04T02:05:25+00:00

Most rejection of that type of advice stems from men disagreeing with you as to how much effort and doing things one would otherwise prefer not to do, is worth it, for the outcomes it would likely generate for those individuals.

This is at the heart of most dating struggles for lesser desirable men.

They understand that they have to do extra things other than be themselves, because they aren’t attractive enough, which has usually led to them not being social enough.

Why go to a party just to be an authentic wallflower, or an inauthentic awkward guy trying to get laid? Parties in young adulthood are fun because people get laid as a result of them.

If you aren’t one of those people, then sure, you may enjoy time with some friends, but you’re literally sharing space with people who are having infinitely more fun than you and will form more intimate connections and experience sexual pleasure with regularity they can take for granted.

That’s not fun for most men who are aware of social dynamics. So they withdraw. They say well, if the main reason why people avoid the solitary and online hobbies that I genuinely enjoy is that they don’t get laid, and I’m already not getting laid, then I’m just going to do whatever I want that’s easy. Drugs, food, entertainment, and porn, while suboptimal, are efficient substitutes for a normal fulfilling life.

Even though these men could fundamentally change what they do with their time and force themselves to develop new “interests” just to socialize and hang around in social groups like a sexless vulture, even though some women out there somewhere would have sex with and date their optimized selves…that’s not worth it to many of them.

The same way that many women would rather be single than to be in a bad relationship, many men don’t want the partners they can barely muster to attract.

The difference is that these single men have less access to sufficiently desirable sex partners and they’re hornier than their female counterparts. So they have something to say about it, especially online. That’s ok, and no, they don’t have to try their hardest before complaining. You can disagree with their perspectives, but their grievances are valid just the same as women who could have partners but choose not to.

The response to complaining you don't want to hear should be to ignore it or to say, "I don't want to hear that."...not to find every post-hoc reason under the sun to criticize the person complaining.

Artistic_Speech_1965 · 2025-05-03T16:32:44+00:00

Completly agree. It makes me believe some men don't really want a relationship but just sex. It's just that having a partner looks better on the paper than seeing a sex worker

BaldieMonkey · 2025-05-03T19:57:00+00:00

Simply because dating advices are in 2 categories : Look advices, character advices.

-Look : Lets you get the attention, the first contact, the first thing they will see, but it only works if you are already able to attract someone in the first place. Useless for the "bottom" guys, let's be generous and say you can get 2 mor point on your base note out of ten, if you start at 6, you can become an 8 but if you start at 3, you can become a 5. Now a 6 already can attract people, the rest is just bonus, the 3 can't and will probably not at 5. of course that system is oversimplified but you get the idea, no amount of work on yourself can overcome your natural low attractiveness. Especially when you compete with genetically attractive men.

-Character : Only useful for guys that can get to the phase where they have to seduce, but then again, no amount of efforts in that phase will give her "the spark" ; the "feeling" ; the "vibe". So, not really useful for the avergae Joe.

Lastly, we can add that the conventionally attractive men, in look ; character or both, never ahd to put any efforts in whatsoever, so compared to them, you're not seen as "putting in efforts", but as "overcompensating", which is not attractive.

Bonus : Men are fed up that every time they actually apply all the advices and still struggle, people come and tell them they must be unhygenic, degenerate, misogyginistic creeps, when they are in fact just unlucky.

Shadowcat1606 · 2025-05-04T16:48:25+00:00

Because quite frankly... a lot of advice isn't particularly great.

AMDisappointment · 2025-05-03T17:39:30+00:00

Joining a church to just to get a girl really is dumb advice. You're there to practice your religion.

Female friends are the worst friends. They'll just exploit you. Make better male friendships instead.

Even if you followed those, if you don't have looks, money and status, you won't see much success. Any advice akin to "Just be yourself" is shit.

There are "cheat codes" though. Passport bros have had great success, not that I'm advocating for it.

Independent-Mail-227 · 2025-05-03T18:14:22+00:00

Because intentions and results are not the same thing, just because you say fluff bs because you think it helps don't means it helps

Like the "muh be social bs", it's an amazing way to get friends not a good way for getting dates because you can aways get friendship since it don't have pre requisites while a date generally speaking have the pre requisite of sexual attraction.

Feeling_Ad_1034 · 2025-05-03T16:59:15+00:00

As a man who dabbled in dating advice content, my advertising feeds on all social media are riddled with bullshit dating coaches peddling the most click-baity content courses you could imagine.

Bombshell 10s in cocktail dresses being led into Lamborghinis by jacked bearded gym-bros wearing expensive jewelry, parties at mansions, dudes pulling groups of girls from high-end night clubs, you name it.

And all these guys are just DYING to share their SECRETS OF ATTRACTION with me!

And yes, they do promise:

how ANY AVERAGE GUY can pull 10s by OVERRIDING HER DEFENSE MECHANISM
how a SPECIAL COLOGNE (C’mom men, you guys get that ad too?) is designed to tap into her reptilian brain and flood her pussy with desire
Text bots for dating apps that always say the right thing
height enhancing footwear
Master game playbook for first dates

So yeah. There’s an entire industry built on bullshit dating advice. My guess is that’s what makes men throw in the towel.

WanabeInflatable · 2025-05-03T16:45:05+00:00

Friendship network is a good advice. Not for dating though.

Joining church is cringe though. If you are not religious and likely not seeking a religious partner

wtknight · 2025-05-03T16:43:54+00:00

Joining a church for dating does not mean you should openly hit on as many church-attending women as you can.

The male attitude is that men have to shoot many shots to finally make one. My own experiences have shown this to be true. If a man talks to enough women and if he eventually lowers his expectations enough, then one of those women will be interested in him.

TotalTravesty · 2025-05-03T16:29:53+00:00

Most of the guys here aren’t looking for dating advice, they’re looking for step-by-step guides to 100% iron-clad guaranteed sex without risking that icky rejection feeling. Small difference but it defines the dynamics of this sub.

NockerJoe · 2025-05-03T16:54:32+00:00

Because the well meaning advice usually involves making decently major changes to how you live your life. Go to church and become religious. Discover a love of salsa dancing. Join a running club. Yeah, you can vaguely see how that whitebread sounding advice would get you a vanilla relationship but it still means they have to be active members of communities they don't actually want to be a part of

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pyroblastftw · 2025-05-03T18:09:11+00:00

The “dating advice” you’re talking about mostly focus on the attraction side and less on the arousal side. As a whole, finding a mate involves a combination of both.

The men who push back on “dating advice” aren’t fully rejecting the attraction side. They just believe the arousal side of mate selection dynamics plays a much bigger role and is neglected from the discussion.

RycerzKwarcowy · 2025-05-06T09:43:25+00:00

Think of such advice as an useless "mathom" gift which will only take place and catch dust. Friends will pretend to like it, but random strangers don't feel obliged to accept it.

insert_dead_memes · 2025-05-06T15:35:15+00:00

Nah dude that won't work for me no woman would date me the west has fallen

DrunkOnRamen · 2025-05-03T16:31:14+00:00

how is it possible for anyone to "misunderstand" mental diarrhea? explain this to me.

jazzmaster1992 · 2025-05-03T16:29:06+00:00

Social + biological pressure for sexual success. Sexual frustration is a difficult load to bear, especially for a long time.

No, sex is not a need in the way that food and water are. No, sex is not owed to anyone. No, women shouldn't have to lower their standards to date men they don't find attractive. Yes, having a decent attitude and pushing to improve and try for what you want is beneficial. This doesn't preclude "feeling some type of way" when you just want to enjoy the warm embrace and pleasure of physical intimacy, but can't. And this makes people irritable and even irrational when it goes on for a long time, and even espite what you think are your best efforts, you still somehow fail.

Title	Q4M: Why do you misunderstand or malign well-intentioned dating advice?
Author	aerodynamicsofacow12
Upvotes	1
Comments	392
Date	May 3, 2025 4:17 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1kdwoil/q4m_why_do_you_misunderstand_or_malign/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/q4m-why-do-you-misunderstand-or-malign-well.1551335 https://theredarchive.com/post/1551335

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