[–]AngeAwareBlue Pill Woman: Sunrise on the Blooping 84 points85 points86 points 10 months ago* (39 children) | Copy Link

On the internet I've seen the conservative=man, liberal=woman misconception on both sides interestingly enough. I've had to correct plenty of dudes on this sub who see American women as liberal by default.

I think it has a lot to do with where you're from. As someone from one of the most conservative parts of the U.S. I have never been under any delusion that conservative women don't exist. For someone from some mega liberal state it's possible the only conservatives they've encountered (that they know of) were men, because men are more likely to be outspokenly contrarian. Most of the vocally liberal and non-religious people I've met in the South were men as well.

And of course there's the internet itself to factor in too, where conservative men are probably more likely to seek conflict and debate than conservative women, and are therefore more visible.

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I know quite a few conservative couples where the women are even more conservative than the men. Although there's a high probability maybe these conservative men selected for these women. These women are also fairly to very collectivist and value contributing and playing a strong, prominent role in their communities.

Conservatives tend to be more discriminate in which groups they value or care about but I don't think a lot of them are particularly individualistic. If anything they can tend to value the collective interest and integrity of the whole and are less about personal liberties. They also tend to stress personal responsibility while liberals focus on the effects and mechanisms of environment and socialization - which to me isn't the same as individualist vs collectivist; personally I think all of them could do a lot of good to take more of both into consideration.

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Let’s unpack these two terms — relative aggregate prevalence and distributive trends — since they’re closely related but describe different layers of statistical or economic behavior.

Relative Aggregate Prevalence

Definition: Relative aggregate prevalence describes how common a phenomenon is within a group or system compared to others, when measured at a macro (aggregate) level and expressed in relative rather than absolute terms.

Example contexts:

In epidemiology: prevalence of diabetes in Country A is 12%, in Country B it’s 6% → Country A has 2× the relative aggregate prevalence.

In labor markets: 25% of all new jobs are in tech, 10% in manufacturing → tech has higher relative aggregate prevalence in the employment mix.

In analytics: 40% of all customer churn occurs in the lowest-revenue decile → that segment shows high relative prevalence of churn compared to its size.

Formula (conceptually): [ \text{Relative Aggregate Prevalence} = \frac{\text{Share of phenomenon}}{\text{Share of base population}} ] If this ratio > 1, the phenomenon is overrepresented; if < 1, underrepresented.

Interpretation: It captures where concentration exists — e.g., which segment, category, or cohort contributes disproportionately to the aggregate measure.

Distributive Trends

Definition: Distributive trends describe how the spread or allocation of a variable changes over time across subgroups, quantiles, or other partitions of a population.

Example contexts:

Income distribution: Is income becoming more unequal (right-tail concentration) or more equal (flattening)?

Customer behavior: Are high-spending customers accounting for a growing share of total revenue (top-decile dominance)?

Health outcomes: Are diseases becoming more concentrated in certain demographics?

Tools & Measures:

Gini coefficient, Theil index, Lorenz curve

Quantile ratios (e.g., 90th/10th percentile)

Shifts in cumulative distribution functions

Decile/percentile contribution shares

Interpretation: Distributive trends reveal the direction and nature of inequality or concentration — e.g., whether aggregate prevalence is broad-based or heavily skewed.

Relationship Between the Two Concept Focus Question It Answers Relative Aggregate Prevalence Static ratio of presence vs. population share “Which groups contribute more than expected to this outcome?” Distributive Trends Temporal movement of that ratio or spread “Is this over-representation increasing or diffusing over time?”

Example: If low-income households’ share of total debt rises from 15% to 25% while they make up 10% of the population, relative aggregate prevalence = 2.5× → and if this ratio has been climbing yearly, that’s a distributive trend toward concentration.

[–]BCRE8TVEAnti-feminist egalitarian man, purple pill 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

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Yes. I’ve seen people say that conservative women, are only conservative because of men, or because of misogony (men hating women). Which this removes agency from her, but also makes it seem like she’s not conservative by her own accord.

I also think that people assume that a woman having some progressive views (that solely benifit herself) instantly = liberal.

A lot of feminist or liberal women (not all liberal women of course but a lot) simply have very sexist or conservative views of the male sex, or think that men should follow and be held to their gender roles at women’s benefit.

Despise her having those views, this however isn’t seen as conservative. As long as she has progressive views of women, she will be deemed as liberal.

To me as a man, this logic is NOT liberal, contrary to how people may deem it as liberal for her to have progressive views of herself but then uphold ridged views and standards of men and what I or others should be as a male, at her benefit.

But because this ideal is deemed as liberal anyways, I think this causes for people to vastly overestimate just how ‘liberal’ every woman is, combined with the mere sexist assumption that women = liberal and men = conservative right winger.

A lot of “women good, men bad” folks are not any less conservative to me, because they basically have the exact same views as a conservative, just flipped flopped to a different demographic.

[–]BCRE8TVEAnti-feminist egalitarian man, purple pill 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Totally agree with you that there are a ton of liberal women, who are all for liberal values and emancipation for women, and then will immediately turn around and espouse conservative values for men and husbands. It is absurd hypocrisy, and for some reason calling out that hypocrisy, or calling out any woman for anything, is defined as misogyny nowadays.

Women are "liberal" because liberal generally means more benefits and privileges for women, and who gives a fuck about men, so of course women support that, and having more conservative values pushed on men isn't at all in contradiction with modern liberalism, because liberalism is all about more and better for women and only women.

A lot of “women good, men bad” folks are not any less conservative to me, because they basically have the exact same views as a conservative, just flipped flopped to a different demographic.

It's incredibly ironic how true that is, isn't it. Gotta love the absolute rampant hypocrisy in modern feminism and modern liberalism of "rules for thee (men) but not for me (women)".

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On the internet I've seen the conservative=man, liberal=woman misconception on both sides interestingly enough.

It’s not really a misconception.

It’s an aggregate distributional pattern. Not an absolutist declaration for all men or all women. Kinda like “men are from Mars, women are Venus.” Obviously this is reductive and doesn’t apply to every individual, but it’s a heuristic that has proved fairly relatable.

Collectivism is more correlated with liberal mindsets and self-interest is more correlated with conservative mindsets so I’ll use them as an illustrative proxy.

Let’s ignore comparing against “political ideology” or “ideological dogma” for a second and zero in one at a time.

In “traditionally conservative” communities there’s still a trend that the females are more collectivist than the males, and that the males are more single-minded/self-interested than the females.

Same trend is observed in “liberal” and “progressive” communities. The guys are more self-interested, the gals are more receptive to group perspectives despite all allegedly being deemed “liberal.”

Hell! In “poly” circles it seems it’s usually the guys who are introducing self-serving vibes to the environment.

So while I do agree with you that there are a lot of “conservative values” women. Even within their conservative community, many of the guys will outpace them when it comes to exhibiting the actions and mindsets of conservatism.

TLDR: Conservatism benefits males which is why they very easily align to it, consciously or unconsciously. Collectivism benefits females which is why they align to it, consciously or unconsciously. Heck, the tenets of conservatism often look indistinguishable from the tenets of masculinity. Same for femininity and collectivism.

[–]AngeAwareBlue Pill Woman: Sunrise on the Blooping 8 points9 points10 points 10 months ago (10 children) | Copy Link

I find that individualism/collectivism can be a very messy dichotomy. To me the idea that conservatives are individualistic is very overstated, coming primarily from their general dislike of welfare and safety nets. While it is true they might not like relying on the government or paying taxes, many of them do rely on their family, their neighbors, their church, school communities, etc. And in return they are very generous with those people as well. Hell many conservatives outright demonize individualism and see it as one of the worst things that has happened to our society. They think individualism leads to the decline of morality.

I think what more accurately captures the difference between conservatives and liberals is perception of in-groups vs out-groups. Conservatives are heavily oriented toward the in-groups, like the communities I mentioned above. To the point where they will even inconvenience themselves and sacrifice for members of the in-groups.

However, they are very suspicious and wary of out-groups, as well as the idea that resources for the in-group are going to out-groups, or that out-groups are threatening to harm them. This is where I suspect that it would apply even more to conservative men than women, but the women can definitely give them a run for their money depending on the specific issue. Hence what OP is witnessing, that there is a sizable chunk of women who vote for conservative candidates. And when you narrow down to specific demographics of women it becomes all the more telling.

[–]GridReXXMEANIE LADY MOD ♀💁‍♀️ 2 points3 points4 points 10 months ago* (9 children) | Copy Link

We’re more or less saying the same thing. However, I’m focusing on the “gendered differences” perspective because they absolutely exist. And are quite interesting (at least to me) to explore.

For example, the in-group aspect of conservatism that you’re highlighting correlates with the possessiveness, dominance, and “mine not yours” of masculinity tenets.

Inb4: This is not me saying that women cannot be ideologically conservative. Or individualistic. I’m highlighting differentials.

My point is that conservatism aligns with certain tenets of masculinity. And that whether or not a group identifies as ideologically™️/politically™️ “conservative” or “liberal,” you’re going to see the males of the respective group cluster more to the stereotypically conservative mindsets and attitudes around individualism.

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I think there's you're right about the women collectivist and man individualistic point

But I do not think it's bc one favors females and the other males

I think it's bc of how each gender is wired in respect to raising kids and bc you need both

If you're purely collectivist then every kid gets an equal award and the kids who are more talented or hard working do not see their potential realized

If you're purely individualistic then those kids get all the love and attention but then all the other kids get marginalized and ignored and grow up to be useless

I think humans evolved so that we have a balance of both forces by having the female parent exhude more of the collectivist force and male excuse more of the individualistic force

And together they create a balance. You help all kids grow and become something good but you also do reward the standouts

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This is not true. Anyone who uses the medication that is used for abortions (mifpristone, misoprostol, etanercept, and methotrexate) are affected. This includes as an emergency contraceptive and for people who use it to treat cushings disease, as these drugs are more than an abortifacient. One of these is also used to treat soldiers with gulf war illness because it blocks cortisol in higher doses, another two for arthritis, etc. So with the laws changing in different states, people are having difficulty getting their medications. Now there are restrictions about who can take these medications, whether or not they can be mailed in the future, how much a hospital is allowed to have on hand and sometimes simply because of the providers “religious reasons”, you can have your medication denied. This is causing harm to people who aren’t even trying to have an abortion.

[–]DankuTwo -3 points-2 points-1 points 10 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]SkwiishObsessiveThott | Woman 3 points4 points5 points 10 months ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

Could you explain to me why the consequences would have to be “cataclysmic” before they are considered harmful and incorrect? I suppose we could wait until we have hundreds of thousands of people unintentionally harmed, more women dying of sepsis.

The fact that these laws already vary by state effect different people in different ways.

https://www.theregreview.org/2023/04/22/dolbow-patent-law-could-also-limit-mifepristone-access/

Currently, overlapping regulations create a precarious balance that allows patients seeking mifepristone for both abortions and Cushing’s syndrome to potentially obtain generic mifepristone. But the Texas litigation has thrown uncertainty into this intricate regulatory maze. Suspension of FDA approval of mifepristone abortion tablets could create serious obstacles for patients who need mifepristone to treat Cushing’s syndrome and even other conditions.

A major obstacle would be patents that were filed years after FDA approved Korlym tablets—and decades after mifepristone was first developed. These patents may not even be infringed by Teva’s generic tablets. But the mere threat of patent infringement liability is deterring Teva from marketing tablets that FDA has concluded are safe and effective. Depending on how the Texas litigation is ultimately resolved, Mifeprex pills may remain on the market uninterrupted. But either way, the Korlym patents are currently restricting access to generic pills for Cushing’s syndrome patients.

https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/abortion-bans-may-limit-access-to-certain-drugs-used-to-treat-women-with-cancer-autoimmune-diseases-and-ulcers/

Clinicians prescribe methotrexate, which is harmful to fetuses and used to treat ectopic pregnancies, to also manage autoimmune diseases including Crohn’s disease and lupus as well as certain cancers. Misoprostol is one of the drugs that is taken as part of a medication abortion typically with mifepristone, and is also prescribed for miscarriage management, to induce labor, and reduce the risk of ulcers caused by medications like aspirin and ibuprofen.

This analysis used a large claims database of enrollees in large employer plans to look at the gender, age, and common diagnoses of people with methotrexate and misoprostol prescriptions in 2019. Key findings include the following:

Seven in ten people with a methotrexate prescription were women. Among women of childbearing age (ages 18-49) with methotrexate prescriptions, 92% were not pregnant in the year. Among those who were not pregnant, the vast majority had an autoimmune disease and about one in five had a cancer diagnosis at some point in the year.

Among women of childbearing age with misoprostol prescriptions, 97% were women and 61% were not pregnant. The majority of non-pregnant women had a diagnosis for which misoprostol would be needed in preparation for a cervical procedure such as intrauterine device (IUD) insertions, while another one in three were diagnosed with abnormal bleeding.

https://veteranlife.com/military-news/veteran-affairs-abortion

https://time.com/6194179/abortion-restrictions-methotrexate-cancer-arthritis/

Soon after she started taking the drug methotrexate in February, Jennifer Crow noticed a significant improvement in her inflammatory arthritis pain. Since then, she’s taken the drug weekly. So her stomach dropped on July 1, when she got an automated call from her pharmacy saying her methotrexate refill for the month hadn’t been approved. Crow, who is 48 and lives in Tennessee, was confused by the disruption, until she saw on social media that other people were reporting similar denials. Methotrexate—which in high doses is used as a chemotherapy drug—is sometimes prescribed to induce abortions, complicating its use in states that have restricted abortion access in the aftermath of Roe v. Wade being overturned.

It’s also not clear how many patients have been denied methotrexate, though a numberof people have shared their experiences on social media. Several health groups—including the Lupus Foundation of America, Arthritis Foundation, and American College of Rheumatology—recently posted statements about reported access issues and told patients to contact them if they ran into problems.

https://www.arthritis.org/about-us/news-and-updates/statement-on-methotrexate-access

On June 24, 2022 the U.S. Supreme Court issued a historic decision overturning Roe v. Wade, declaring that the right to an abortion is no longer federally protected by the right to privacy. This ruling returned the decision to regulate abortion, including many fundamental reproductive health-care decisions, back to the states, and without any federal constitutional standards.

In anticipation of such a ruling, more than 20 states passed laws (also known as “trigger laws”) intended to criminalize abortions, with at least six additional states’ laws going into effect since the decision. Many of these state laws specifically list certain medications as “abortion-inducing drugs,” which bans their use without necessarily distinguishing by condition or diagnosis. One of these drugs is methotrexate, a well-established FDA-approved therapy with a long track record of safety and effectiveness often used to treat inflammatory arthritis and other autoimmune conditions and, at much higher doses, cancer. Methotrexate is also medically indicated for treating a patient after an early pregnancy loss, including ectopic pregnancy and miscarriage.

https://www.painnewsnetwork.org/stories/2022/7/14/women-with-painful-conditions-face-unintended-consequences-from-abortion-bans

[–]DankuTwo 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]SkwiishObsessiveThott | Woman 2 points3 points4 points 10 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Seeing as how each state is legislating this medication differently, it’s a pretty silly question, there isn’t a way to quantify this yet. It’s absolutely “cataclysmic” for some people since they are literally dying. They meaning women, which is probably why you lot seem to think it’s just fine. No one has moved any goalposts, I provided you with a wide variety of information about all the different diseases that people who have no interest in being pregnant are being affected by, and therefore directly impacted by laws around these drugs. Our hair is on fire over roe v wade because it’s risking the lives of women and girls, who will have to go septic before a doctor is allowed to save their lives, if they can at that point. Also where was any of what I quoted emotional? The anecdotes are from around the country showing that this has had an immediate affect on peoples health without pregnancy being involved at all.

[–]DankuTwo 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"They meaning women, which is probably why you lot seem to think it’s just fine."

What is "my lot", and where did I say things were "just fine"?

This is the problem with Americans and American discourse: you are all so embedded in your little warring states that you assume an entire life and ideology for people based on a single comment or data-point. There is NO room for analysis or nuance, anywhere (this is a broader American cultural problem, merely reflected into politics).

The fact is that government policy around healthcare kills people. This is INEVITABLE. America's refusal to offer universal healthcare kills far more people in a single year than the loss of RvW likely will in all of history. My government kills people every year by underfunding our healthcare system. It is simply how things work. Tragic, undoubtedly, but ultimately unavoidable.

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I used to be pro-choice.

Then I realized that I was fed propaganda from a literal death cult as a child who wanted to see the decline and fall of our civilization.

Now I'm pro-birth. I'm usually fairly libertarian in my views, but I've seen now that what might be good for the individual will lead to the death of civilization.

I first started to realize this in 2008. A couple corporations/banks that were going to lose money laid off employees, and that led to more corporations laying off employees and it started this domino that had a central bank not intervened, would have led to the entire collapse of the entire global economy. And you might not think, oh just 10% of women having an abortion isn't a problem, but it's actually WAY more than that. Every year 2% of the women 15-44 have an abortion. That's the difference between our country having a stable population and total collapse.

And you might say, oh but the women that have kids won't be good mothers, but I'd argue that killing the child before it is born is an even worse fate. Existance itself is a blessing, not everyone is guaranteed the right to exist.

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Sometimes telling that i would've voted for Trump is enough. But well, everything i think. I'm pro freedom, which means i think everything should be legalized. Weapons, drugs, prostitution. Some on it aligns with conservatism. Then there is a trans people issue. While i have nothing against them as people, i don't care if i don't understand them or not, or is it delusion or not, they are free to live as they wish.....before we start to deny biology in sports (and whenever else) and give a massive loophole for men to use for access to women's spaces. Then there are immigration policies....or support of terrorist regimes....i'm not favorite person for the leftist at the moment, and i usually keep quiet about my views.

Oh, also, i'm pro freedom of speech, and freedom of making medical decisions. Which means that i consider what happened during covid outrageous and attack on bodily authonony and privacy and what not. And usually my conversations with leftist follow same pattern "i'm pro free speech, there was no censorship, and if there was it should've been because what they will decide, and they should do things for the good of society and i don't know who decides what's good, no it's still freedom"...

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As a Californian, Ronald Reagan is an absolute disgrace. The policies and attitudes brought forth from him and his administration are a stain on America.

Examples of the former include his dismantling of the tax code (but only for the rich), the “trickle down” effect, a scam aka Reaganomics, disbandment of mental health hospitals w/o any follow up treatment, healthcare, or even a plan, which is what initiated the homelessness crisis and is still a huge source of the population even until this day.

Examples of the latter include thinly veiled racism, faux elitism, blaming of others and this sick disdain for the poor (“welfare queen”), including the “I’ve got mine so fuck you” mentality, and stealing from the poor to fund the rich.

Ronald Reagan is an embarrassment to California and the majority of us are ashamed he’s even associated with the state.

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[–]SauceyQ0369No Pill Woman 2 points3 points4 points 10 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Assuming that someone who voted for Trump believes and adheres to the WHOLE of conservative ideology is supremely lacking in nuance.

I know a heck of a lot of registered republicans who are still pro choice, but they vote red for “economics.” Abortion isn’t a key issue for them. People hold complex and nuanced beliefs. Same applies to dem voters, not everyone who votes dem hates guns. Etc

A quick search for stats leads to a nicely broken out Gallup report. 36% of the population is conservative vs 25% liberal and 36% moderate. So overall 61% of the population is not conservative.

The breakdown does still show men have higher percentages in the conservative category.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/609914/women-become-liberal-men-mostly-stable.aspx

Now that’s just about voting trends/politics. What I think is worth examining is the cultural zeitgeist. Do “trad girl” influencers and content creators exist? Absolutely. But the “manosphere” is significantly more impactful on a social level and has been around/influencing the youts longer. I remember first learning about PUA and TRP like shit 13 years ago? It’s just significantly more prolific than any content espousing “trad wife” (I’m just using this as a general term to compare) views. You see significantly less support and buy in to “trad wife” content. Much less engagement. So it does reason out that men are more supportive of “conservative values”

Anyway, just looking at a raw number and saying “yep since 50% voted for this candidate that means they all hold the same beliefs” isn’t really looking at something critically.

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To answer your title question:

It is because, inevitably, men tend to be the loudest and most zealous demo espousing “conservative values” as justification to disenfranchise, control, or subjugate others, particularly their fellow women… even women of their own “ideology.” It’s a fascinating correlation that’s quite telling.

It’s why, once again, inevitably, the women (and marginalized groups) within conservative communities eventually convene to rebel or “fight back for rights” or simply leave or whatever. You even see this tension sometimes between the male and female hosts on Fox News. Hell, Megyn Kelly is a prime example of a woman experiencing this level of cognitive dissonance. Men (of her alleged ilk) continue to disrespect her and have sexually assault her because of her gender, and she continues to try to earn her “conservative harpy” badge.

It’s why conservatives are very reactionary to “education” and any analysis requiring accurate critical thought. It’s why conservative regimes are known for banning and burning books.

It’s because the more a person becomes knowledgeable about the world around them, the harder they are to control.

Colonial chattel slavers (who were ideologically conservative) knew this. It’s why African slaves in the United States were forbidden from learning to read and write, and why there were barbaric consequences if they were caught learning. It’s why the FLDS allows their boys to continue education, but stops girls after elementary. Same for Sharia Law.

Those may be “extremes” but the same insidious mindset is prevalent in many conservative circles. It’s why “repeal the 19th” has been a tagline of male Republicans the last many years.

[–]Vast_Astronomer_1421 0 points1 point2 points 8 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Idk if FLDS is a good example

Do they educate all of the boys or just the chosen? FLDS discards most boys by sending them off into labor camps bc there's too many of them

Otherwise if boys are present then the leaders cannot get more new young wives

Maybe they just educate the few chosen boys that are going to replace the leaders one day?

If all of them then maybe they educate the boys so they know enough to work in their construction camps to make money for the leader pimps but not more

Either way the averge boy in FLDS ends up in essentially slave labor camps with no prospect of ever getting a woman. And from what I heard they are insufficiently educated to leave the camp and go into regular civilization. By nature of polygamy they have to do this

So maybe you're referring to the few chosen boys that are supposed to get their own harems eventually?

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Because conservative values are designed to weaken women more than they are designed to weaken men.

If girls are given poor sex-ed, then pushed to drop out of highschool and raise their resulting teen pregnancies, they when that girl becomes a woman, she won't have the education to educate her daughters on how to avoid her fate.

When girls are taught that she should submit to her husband and not taught how to make her own choices, then she won't know how to leave behind conservative values.

Or, if a girl is taught that bad girls will be abused and raped by men, then as a woman, she will do everything in her power to remove her daughter's sexuality to protect her from that fate. That's why women in some countries iron and beat their daughter's breasts, or cut off their clitorises. It's not because they agree that it's better for women. It's because they fear men, and want the lesser of two evils.

A woman who votes against abortion may some day realise that she is no different from the women who need abortions, or not.. A man never will experience it, so never has a reason to care.

Meanwhile, the men have access to that education. They have access to learning how to make choices. The men in these cultures are uplifted and watch their mothers and sisters and daughters get beat down. When he has the money and education, he has the ability to help her, or he has the ability to take advantage of her.

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That's a nice narrative, but it's not true. The 1992 election was weird because Ross Perot took so much of the popular vote, but otherwise female support of Democratic candidates has stayed within +/- 3% of 54% in the last 30 years.

The 2024 results are just normal pendulum swinging at this point unless the trend continues, but that's pure speculation. It dropped between 2000 and 2004, only to rebound to a then record high in 2008. Whenever the country broadly swings towards Republicans, women do as well. Republicans have only won the popular vote twice this century (2004 and 2024), and it's not coincidental that those are the two years in which women voted the least Democratic.

Female support of the Democratic candidate hit another record high in 2020, before falling to a more normal 53% in 2024. There's no downward trend today, just as there was no upward trend a year ago today. A trend is a sustained movement in one direction. That ain't that.

Also keep in mind that the margin of error in exit polling is 3%. So basically what this data tells us is that about 54% of women have voted for the Democratic candidate for the last 25 years.

Year	Presidential Democratic Vote %
1992	45%
1996	54%
2000	54%
2004	51%
2008	56%
2012	55%
2016	54%
2020	57%
2024	53%

edit- Sources: NYT (1992-2008), Politico (2012), CNN (2016-2024)

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Sure, it's essentially the inverse, because of the two party system and math.

Democratic candidate for the last 25 years.

Year	Presidential Democratic Vote %
1992	45%
1996	54%
2000	54%
2004	51%
2008	56%
2012	55%
2016	54%
2020	57%
2024	53%

edit- Sources: NYT (1992-2008), Politico (2012), CNN (2016-2024)

[–]ta06012022Man -1 points0 points1 point 10 months ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Sure. Votes for the Republican candidate are largely the inverse outside of the Ross Perot years of 1992 and 1996, as he pulled a significant number of votes. Third parties make up a small % of the vote in other years.

Year	Presidential Democratic Vote %	Presidential Republican Vote %	Gap
1992	45%	37%	8%
1996	54%	38%	16%
2000	54%	43%	11%
2004	51%	48%	3%
2008	56%	43%	13%
2012	55%	46%	9%
2016	54%	41%	13%
2020	57%	42%	15%
2024	53%	45%	8%

The 2020 election was one of the largest gaps ever. The 2024 election was closer to the historically normal range (within +/- 4% of 42%). This 30 year history is all just bouncing around in the same range. The gap closed to 3% in 2004. Then what happened?

There's no trend in either direction. One election is not a trend. Full stop.

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[–]kingpinkatyaBene Gesserit Witch (Woman) 6 points7 points8 points 10 months ago* (27 children) | Copy Link

But when did women get equal access to all stuff? You should check out the years. It makes it easier to understand why politicians are looking to roll back women's rights. THEY'RE STILL BRAND FUCKING NEW

Women couldn't have their own BANK ACCOUNTS until 1974.

BitterWheel471 · 2025-10-23T13:50:03+00:00

So many women here attack men for stuff like abortion , siding with successful men when they dont care for them or for not following the correct social norms,...

MARITAL RAPE wasn't made illegal nationwide in the US until 1993.

You should really start Googling when women were allowed to enter the workforce, go to school, get "the same" income as men, etc. You may be surprised.

We expect men to not emphasize with us, its Conservative women we feel the most betrayed by but they have less power than Conservative men because their "values" prescribe that they should be in positions of servitude to men and allow them to have dominion over them.

This is why all female Conservative grifters are laughable at the end of the day. They get booked on podcasts saying that they think women shouldnt vote and that they should be in the kitchen and its very easy to then say, "So then why do you shut up and get in the kitchen? Why are you promoting your business on this podcast? Why arent you living out your values right now when you could give your spot to a man? Why arent you married yet? Why havent you had kids yet?"

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Spamming a link without quoting the relevant bit that supports your position just proves that you didn't read the link. Which is obvious because if you read up on the issue, you wouldn't say things that are so obviously idiotic.

"Sometime on July 9 Hannah Holland strode into her bank to get a loan. She learned the next day that her application had been successful but the news barely affected her busy day. The businesswoman had received bank loans in the past and would receive many more in the future. At first glance, scholars may view this anecdote as indifferently as Holland viewed her $1,000 bank loan. **When told the episode occurred not in the twentieth century, or even the nineteenth, however, interest should wax strong. In fact, Holland received her loan in 1797. Nor was she alone. Though a small percentage of all bank customers, women held accounts in many northeastern banks in the early national period, a fact that apparently has eluded business and women's historians alike."

Women and Banking in Early America

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"No idea who MLloyd is, but you should tell him that the link to his CV is broken. Kind of hard to validate who the hell he is without it"

You're one to talk, you linked an article from someone without any kind of history degree credentials. Look up the author of your own article. Single and widowed women had bank accounts in their own name way before 1974. It was only married women who needed joint accounts, you know, because they were married. Honestly, how do you read "Women couldn't have a bank account before 1974" and not immidiatly realise that it was BS? How does it pass the sniff test? How brainwashed do you need to be to believe something like this?

19th Century Women and Bank Accounts - Bianca White Writes

"Single women and widows had the freedom to open a bank account in their own name. Married women, however, needed permission to open an account from their husband. (It’s not surprising that many women chose to remain single.) Banks required a married woman to get their husband to sign an authorisation form before they could open an account. "

Hannah Holland, widow - Important Documentation to Explore | Memories on FamilySearch

"See how I read the source you linked?"

Not only did you not read my source, you didn't read yours either.

"If there was no issue, why do you believe the Equal Credit opportunity Act was passed?:"

The Equal Credit Opportunity Act prevented discrimination; nothing stopped a business from giving women bank accounts before it was passed. They didn't need this law to be allowed to do so. Do you understand the distinction?

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Pretty much and then AI models like chatGPT get trained on data from the internet including reddit only reinforcing the lack or nuance

Tho I think in her case she left parts out on purpose bc she basically used the first half of this sentence and ignored the second half lol. I'm sure she read the whole sentence but decided to only post what was convenient

"Prior to 1974, when the Equal Credit Opportunity Act passed, a woman could not open a bank account, apply for a credit card or get a home loan without the permission of her husband"

Not only that but the sentence in the article itself is misleading bc it only applies to married women (and is contradicted in the same article with the point about 1882)

We have ppl writing articles that leave some info out. And then we have ppl using those as a source but cutting out even more info. And then our AI is trained on this 1/4 truth slop

[–]Vast_Astronomer_1421 0 points1 point2 points 8 months ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

This is not true you left out parts "Women couldn't have their own BANK ACCOUNTS until 1974" The full truth is in your own link https://share.google/XakVwa4sqabDkSknY

In 1882 women got bank accounts

"For generations, women were not permitted to do their own banking. In 1882, a predecessor of JPMorgan Chase, The First National Bank of Chicago, established its women’s banking department to cater to wealthy widowed women"

And in 1974 no longer needed husband permission or male co-signer

"Prior to 1974, when the Equal Credit Opportunity Act passed, a woman could not open a bank account, apply for a credit card or get a home loan without the permission of her husband. And if she didn’t have a spouse, she would be refused – unless accompanied by a male co-signer"

Also this part in your link is disingenuous bc the 1974 act let black ppl unto these markets. So saying "not all women could before 1974" is only true bc black women could not. Black men could not just the same so "not all white men could" is also true. White women could just like white men long before 1974

This is much different than you simplification to "women were not allowed to have thir own bank accounts before 1974"

Tl; dr; Widowed women were allowed since 1882 and until 1974 non-widowed needed permission of husband or male co-signer

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Women couldn't have debt either.

And now within 50 years of having access to it, women make up the overwhelming majority of consumer debt. Women alone account for over 85% of consumer spending, most of which is through debt, and only account for 1% of manufacturing and production of said goods.

Great job ladies, really fighting the capitalist patriarchy by being perfect little consumers! If we did have your communist utopia, ya'll would be at the bottom of the hierarchy.

"To each one's ability to each one's need" would result in most of you having literally nothing because you don't produce virtually anything and consume virtually everything as a demographic.

Women aren't even a net tax positive. The average woman costs society more than she contributes in federal revenue. Men quite literally subsidize your entire lives.

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Domestic violence becomes an addiction for three reasons: "Don't deserve better" mentality, religious control, and "Calm Before The Storm".

Don't Deserve Better: The victim is manipulated into thinking that they are worth the abuse they receive, that no good person would want a "tainted" partner, or that the abuser is actually above average, and treats them better than any other person would.

Religious Control: The religion manipulates the victim into thinking "if I put up with this now, I will have an eternity of happiness in the afterlife, but if I leave my husband, I will suffer an eternity in hell in the afterlife".

Calm Before The Storm: in an abusive relationship, you have two modes: Calm Before the Storm (anxiously waiting for the abuser to strike), and The Storm (the abuser strikes). When you are stuck in that cycle for too long, you will require intensive therapy to unlearn it, because any calmness and peace you experience is processed to you as "Calm Before the Storm". You become incapable of feeling comfortable in a peaceful situation. You'd rather have the danger where you can see it, than never know when it's going to strike.

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Exactly.

Liberals DO have a socialism problem, and they need to boot these idiot Marxists out of their party and into their own unpopular socialist parties so we can have a reasonable national discourse again.

To be fair, conservatives need to do the same with the Nick Fuentes types. Abortion is the right's gun control - an unpopular position. Lawful citizens don't want to lose the ability to protect themselves, and neither women nor men want women to be forced to carry pregnancies to term no matter what, or (best case scenario) be delayed life-saving care while the government "approves" the medical necessity of treatment to address life-threatening or non-viable pregnancies.

Show me a candidate that supports legal migration, opposes illegal migration, is willing to deport criminal migrants, upholds the first and second amendment, wants voter ID but expanded access to voting/polling (or is willing to make election day a federal holiday), supports both gay marriage and pro-choice positions, opposes biological males in women's sports and private spaces, opposes China and the CCP and is willing to work to re-establish American self-sufficiency in energy + rare earths + other key industries, is tough on violent crime, is willing to go to bat for NATO, and is willing to stand up against Islamist terrorism (which ironically leftists seem to support despite the fact nobody is more anti-LGB than groups like Hamas)...and you'll get candidates that win in landslides.

The problem is both parties are spendthrifts who only pretend to be fiscally moderate when the other side controls the levers of power. Conservatives can't stop selling out to big business, and leftists can't stop taxing and fining the American people and pushing unpopular social programs and fomenting disorder because they've been letting the DSA dipshits direct so much of their platform for the past decade.

[–]Illustrious_Wish_383Purple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 9 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]TopShelfSnipesMarried Purple Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 9 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Cool, so then collectively do something about the DSA radicals that have infested the party and its platform since circa 2014.

Because they're the resaon I vote independently.

The point of my post isn't to call out everyone on the left of center and say they support this. The point is the leftists/Marxists support this, and they have been using the Democratic Party to push their agenda for over a decade. Mass illegal migration, biological males in women's sports, gender reassignment surgery/cross sex hormones/puberty blockers for children (often without parental consent), decriminalizing low level offenses, no bail/raise the age laws, noncitizen/no-ID voting, universal mail-in ballots, Green New Deal policies that simultaneously increase power grid demands through electrification while reducing supply and eliminating energy independence by abandoning controlled energy sources in favor of toxic batteries made largely in China - all of these policies are deeply unpopular with ALL voters.

The Marxists should be in their own party. No one supports their crap, but for whatever reason, a lot of moderate Democrats are too afraid to say or do anything about it or call the DSA clowns what they actually are.

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You said "nobody". And I sourced a notable somebody, with a large following of other somebodies that are expressing agreement.

I comprehended what you said just fine. It appears you needed another comment to qualify what you meant. But apparently you need to feel superior in some way, so you pretended I made an argument I didn't in order to posture as if you are above me in some way.

This is an unimpressive strawman logical fallacy AND and ad hominem redirect. But makes no sense. I THINK your concern is that because you agree one Christian nationalist is a prick, that makes all Christian nationalists a prick to whoever "you guys" is that you are implying I represent. And you think the cause of that opinion is because their feelings are hurt that their bias is being exposed. And you are equating that unreasonable position with myself.

And you think that of me because I essentially said, "hey there are actually a lot of Christian nationalists that are defending racism"

And yes, I do hold the belief that a notable "sub section" of society is saying similar things.

Maybe you should say what you mean clearly instead of bumbling around the internet assuming things of others.

But I will say what I mean clearly.

Anyone, who holds the belief that we are a Christian nation, cannot with any integrity also say that they support the US constitution. And if they believe that we should be a Christian nation, and enact policy on that belief in any way other than advocating for a change to the constitution (which is their right), then that person is in the wrong, and they are in violation of the US constitution.

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I can understand the restrictiveness of the attitudes where one feels terrified of saying anything about politics in public, especially if, like her, they basically lack a filter lol

And I mean, the democracy issue is a nebulous one - most conservatives I've heard from see it as "well if he does too much, we have checks and balances", but that implies that he probably will do too much and that it's on other people to reel it in.

As for abortion, the issue itself is not a day to day effect for most people, rightly prioritized or not

And she has basically gone full conservative on a few things like abortion, illegal immigration, etc., I think to fully justify the switch for herself.

Still pro gay marriage, doesn't dislike minorities or anything like that.

But steeped deeper in conservative stances

All initiated by the behavior of pro Palestine and pro Trans activists

I literally think elections are so close these days that those things - "wokeness" and downright meanness of "the groups" being all over social media and writ large - won Trump the election

[–]operation-spotPurple Pill Woman 4 points5 points6 points 10 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If you’re (I’m assuming) not “full conservative” like her how do you see your marriage playing out especially with potentially raising children? If her opinions were based in kindness I don’t think she would receive a negative reaction when voicing them but something tells me that’s not the case. If your opinions are causing you social shame to the point that you don’t want to say them out loud maybe it’s time to reconsider them.

If she has no problem with gay people what makes trans people different in her mind? Personally, I’d describe myself as pro-gay and while I don’t necessarily understand trans people, them existing doesn’t bother me because it doesn’t impact my everyday life. I know it’s not your opinion but why do you think your wife feels like trans people impacts her so much that she’s pissed off when she hears them advocating for themselves?

For women, reproductive rights is an everyday issue because women can become pregnant every day. Even preventative measures like birth control are now under attack so it seems like this matters more than ever. If you guys are trying for children, the bans have made miscarriages (which are extremely common), fetal abnormalities, and the life of the mother more difficult to treat which can lead to women dying. Does your wife think it’s better that women die in a hospital parking lot rather than receiving life saving medical care because the government won’t allow doctors to take care of their patients?

The Palestine issue is one I don’t know a lot about but even without knowing the history of the conflict it seems wrong. When your wife hears that so many civilians are being killed and starved that international humanitarian organizations call it a genocide does she think that’s a good thing?

Why does your wife want kindness and acceptance from groups that she’s actively harming and why is standing up for others woke?

I know this is a long reply but this is not just for you or your wife, it’s for anyone who agrees with the ideas of Trump and those you described above.

[–]Sweet_Discount4485 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"Prices on food have pretty much doubled under Biden."

"We have no clue who the million migrants coming over are and we could have a couple of terrorists sneak in and get 9/11 #2."

"There are two new wars and I, as a man at the age I could be drafted, don't want that."

Trump was the first Republican since 2004 to win the popular vote. And much of W. Bush's success was post 9/11 patriotism, at that.

Trump won about half of Latino voters, about half of woman voters...

African Americans are the single most anti-gay marriage demographic.

Muslim Americans are socially conservative.

Over half of Latinos are Catholic.

The working class/low income folks voted for Trump.

How does one square the circle of "conservatism harms people" with "we need to be respectful and inclusive of minority and marginalized groups"?

There's a need for the left to accept a ton of tension if the values actually pan out.

It isn't as simple as the above argument. Or any argument.

[–]TopShelfSnipesMarried Purple Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago (2 children) | Copy Link

"The narrative" is to keep people dumb and ignorant in their little boxes, blindly supporting one side while claiming the other is "evil."

The evil is the extremists. The people who understand the issues and can debate them in good faith and make valid arguments without loaded language and insults, are the ones who should be leading the national dialogue. Not the ideologues shouting down their opponents.

The amount of editorializing in media is through the roof, too. Thirty years ago, we would have called that "shoddy journalism." Everything - from what topics are covered to how arguments are framed - is biased, which is why you have to read both left-leaning and right-leaning sources to arrive at the truth (it's safe to ignore extremist media like alt-right media/conspiracy theories, or leftist Marxist media).

It exposes the hypocrites.

Interesting to see all the people screeching about gEnOcIdE in Gaza suddenly not give a shit now that a peace plan is underway that their party didn't support. Suddenly, roving gangs of Hamas going door to door executing rival factions and "Israel sympathizers" (quotes for sarcasm, because the accusation is likely false) aren't newsworthy. Has barely even been mentioned in the NY Times, for example. Meanwhile, conservative media ignores the US citizens and green card holders getting caught up in ICE raids.

Both parties cheer the filibuster and executive orders when their side does it, and decry abuse of power when the other side does it. It's why you ned to tread very carefully around people who want to weaken those kinds of procedural and Constitutional safeguards - not just because you oppose them, but because either party could abuse that in the future, so the safeguard is more important than either side "winning."

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"Biden made gains with men, while Trump improved among women, narrowing the gender gap. The gender gap in the 2020 election was narrower than it had been in 2016, both because of gains that Biden made among men and because of gains Trump made among women. In 2020, men were almost evenly divided between Trump and Biden, unlike in 2016 when Trump won men by 11 points. Trump won a slightly larger share of women’s votes in 2020 than in 2016 (44% vs. 39%), while Biden’s share among women was nearly identical to Clinton’s (55% vs. 54%)."

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2021/06/30/behind-bidens-2020-victory/

"46% of women voted for Trump in 2024, compared with 44% of women four years earlier."

https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2025/06/26/voting-patterns-in-the-2024-election/

A +7% swing among women for Trump in 8 years while women's rights were under attack seems interesting, doesn't it?

[–]Sweet_Discount4485 1 point2 points3 points 10 months ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Christian_Kong80% Natural Red 0 points1 point2 points 10 months ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

This election isn't really a good one to judge conservative/liberal for the most part.

Trumps biggest voting block, when broken down by being politically informed, was the non-politically informed voter and that leaned more towards democrats.

By far the #1 issue in America was "the economy" aka: shit is too expensive for my earning power. Low information voters just assumed Biden turned up the inflation dial for no reason and Trump (Mr "concepts of a plan") essentially said he would turn that down.

This is not unique to to USA politics. Pretty much every party globally in power took massive losses because the population blamed global inflation on local government. I can pretty much guarantee that the gains conservatives made with women in 2024 will evaporate because Trump, among other failures, will not have turned the inflation dial down and will likely be president during a devastating recession.

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Why are men blamed for supporting for conservative values when almost half the women do the same?

Comments

Women couldn't have their own BANK ACCOUNTS until 1974.

MARITAL RAPE wasn't made illegal nationwide in the US until 1993.

We expect men to not emphasize with us, its Conservative women we feel the most betrayed by but they have less power than Conservative men because their "values" prescribe that they should be in positions of servitude to men and allow them to have dominion over them.

"Women couldn't have their own BANK ACCOUNTS until 1974"

See how I read the source you linked? You should try it.

"See how I read the source you linked?"

If you need permission to open a bank account you are not a full financial being with agency. This is encompassed in the sentence "women could open their own bank accounts"

as usual misogynists prove the point while missing it entirely

I am not your free source of research labor. There are websites like that.

I am not your free source of research labor. There are websites like that.

Title	Why are men blamed for supporting for conservative values when almost half the women do the same?
Author	BitterWheel471
Upvotes	113
Comments	471
Date	October 23, 2025 1:50 PM UTC (9 months ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1oe3sbp/why_are_men_blamed_for_supporting_for/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-are-men-blamed-for-supporting-for-conservative.1564814 https://theredarchive.com/post/1564814