Most women don't care about toxic masculinity and actively perpetuate it when it suits them.

Notanothrshitthrow · 2022-11-13T16:01:18+00:00

If you wanted to talk about how women enforce toxic masculinity, you should have referred to how many women would not accept a male partner if they've had any sort of homosexual fun.

WideAwake550 · 2022-11-13T18:22:33+00:00

It goes beyond that.

Women instinctually have more contempt for men they deem pathetic than men they fear.

That's why the same women who claim that fake nice guys can't get women because of their toxic mindset will ignore that Chris Brown has over 50 million followers on Facebook and 80% of them are women according to Audience Insights data.

That's because Chris Brown is successful, famous, tall, and handsome while the fake nice guy is generally unattractive, autistic, has zero clout, and broke which women deem pathetic.

Modern women reinforce all the time that toxic men who actually do bad things are higher on the totem pole than pathetic men who only whine about their problems. And, for the record, I think both are negative subgroups of men in case I get gaslighted.

Poopybuttsticks · 2022-11-13T23:26:45+00:00

Indeed the reason most “toxic male” traits exist are because women respond positively to them.

Podlubnyi · 2022-11-13T16:52:12+00:00

A better example would be the number of criminals, thugs, abusers, drug dealers and general lowlifes that women reproduce with. In an age when women have full control over who fathers their children, criminal men are more likely to have children than non-criminal men.

swordfishrenegade · 2022-11-13T15:49:18+00:00

What women say they believe and what they actually do are rarely the same thing.

Snekky3 · 2022-11-14T00:29:48+00:00

I do agree with you that men who throw a fit over a woman paying is toxic. And women should not be accepting that. And yes, it is well known that women promote toxic masculinity just as men do. Feminists have never said otherwise. Most of us say they don’t do it as often as men do, but I disagree. Women do this just as much and in some contexts more often.

TrailWraith · 2022-11-14T02:23:17+00:00

“Toxic masculinity” persists because it works and women respond to it. It’s really that simple.

howdoiw0rkthisthing · 2022-11-13T14:58:55+00:00

I don’t think your example about sharing the bill is an accurate representation of that idea. It’s not that men don’t like it (although some don’t because it gives them less leverage for sex). Making men pay, according to FDS, comes from the belief that men will only value what they have to put work into, whether it’s their time, their money, their effort, or all of the above. They believe that paying or splitting devalues them in his eyes, or attracts men who don’t value her as much. Not sure I totally agree, but that’s the full idea.

To me an example of a woman enjoying toxic masculinity might be letting two guys fight over her or expecting her man to put himself in physical danger to protect or stand up for her in some way. And I don’t even know if those behaviors are toxic per se but I think they serve as better examples.

luroot · 2022-11-13T18:04:38+00:00

Ofc, women only care about power, not morals.

As every moral they have can be broken if the guy they want is powerful enough.

A good collective example is how many women devoutly buy into extremely patriarchal, misogynistic, toxic, Abrahamic religions. I think the main reason they do is because they strongly brainwash men to ignore their natural instincts, date conservatively with women, and commit to marriage...which is what most women want. So, they're willing to overlook everything else as long as they can enjoy that benefit.

trele_morele · 2022-11-13T17:53:29+00:00

Because toxic madculinity is a voodoo concept invented by women for the benefit of women.

throwaway164_3 · 2022-11-13T18:37:54+00:00

Women tolerate toxic masculinity only if the man is hot, muscular, tall, sexy and dominant.

They don’t put up with toxic masculinity from other type of men

tribalrakshasa · 2022-11-13T21:03:57+00:00

You ask why women are fine with real toxic men

Most women support toxic masculinity because most women are toxic. Toxic people support toxic people. They're natural Ally. It's their culture. We live in a toxic world. Society is a toxic institute. Social morality is a carcass. Dead but pretending to be alive. They're bad and pretend to be good. This is to confuse you. Because the moment you accept that they're good, they disarm you. They even disarm you.

Yes, toxic feminity is as much real as toxic masculinity & they're complimentary to eachother. One cannot stand without other. People talk about toxic masculinity but no one talk about toxic feminity. It is like yin & yan. One is very subtle while other is overt. Both complete eachother.

The9thElement · 2022-11-13T14:57:55+00:00

That is the absolute worst example of toxic masculinity lmaoooo

bunnakay · 2022-11-13T15:38:19+00:00

....that's not even toxic masculinity. You should research the term before trying to use it in a sentence lol

learn2earn89 · 2022-11-13T19:48:33+00:00

In a way, I think you are right. Personally, I pay for things often for other people because I make enough money. I would probably pay for my own drink/food on a first date with a guy. So this doesn’t really apply to me.

However, I do experience some hesitation when it come to bisexual men. Not sure why, just the thought of them being attracted to even more people on earth sends alarm signals. Bi men probably have a higher n-count than straight men too and the thought of some dude’s dic* in their mouth is a turn off. I know this is homophonic. I treat everyone equally, but when it comes to romance, we all have our preferences.

freespirit1963TJ · 2022-11-13T18:16:52+00:00

People in general like to have excuses, men and women. It also really depends on the individual definition of what toxic masculinity is.

Suriels_cat · 2022-11-13T21:42:52+00:00

Both men and women perpetuate toxicity in each other. Women want toxic masculinity when it suits them, but men do the same thing. Lots of men expect/want women to work, do most housework and most childcare. Lots of women that work want men to pay for everything. etc. etc. Lots of people are just quite selfish.

CimZim · 2022-11-13T15:03:09+00:00

Is this a troll post?

sarratect · 2022-11-13T16:24:05+00:00

Masculinity is toxic when men try to emulate being some childish caricature of what a man is like in their imagination. Emotionless, unreasonably hostile and beast-like.

You can be very manly without being "The Terminator" or some wife-beater. Men that realize that "female" attributes can make them better and more fulfilled, as long as they don't go overboard with it and keep themselves rooted in good masculine traits, are more mature and closer to the real ideal super-man.

Fat_Papaya · 2022-11-13T15:17:52+00:00

We need to expand toxic masculinity to directly insult, belittle and degrade average women. Like for the payment thing you mentioned, the man should pay if the woman is attractive, they should split if she is average and she should pay if he has a higher SMV, or she has some horrible traits like being a single mother. This way we can equalize with toxic femininity haha

pm_me_hairy_nudes · 2022-11-13T21:11:53+00:00

OP you have no idea what toxic masculinity is. the "toxic" part of "toxic masculinity" means when you're hurting yourself or hurting others by conforming to hypermasculine gender norms

if a guy enjoys feeling like a provider, who is he hurting? if a woman enjoys taking care of kids and being a sahm, who is she hurting?

the only problem is when people feel forced to do any of those things, in which case, they should have adult conversations with each other and make their own choices to stay or not stay in their relationships.

FancyCocktailOlive · 2022-11-13T20:51:15+00:00

Men paying for dates isn’t toxic masculinity.

Toxic masculinity is when men believe they get to own women like you own a car or another object and that they get to tell you what to do.

GlamSunCrybabyMoon · 2022-11-13T19:09:01+00:00

That’s not toxic masculinity, that’s reinforcing gender stereotypes. It’s not toxic to a man who doesn’t mind paying for dates. Only to men who are resentful because they want to date but is also mad about spending money and not getting what they want in return.

MistyMaisel · 2022-11-14T02:17:08+00:00

Dude, I have my own money and I always have. I really don't pay because male ego is that fragile about paying and I want a good relationship. This isn't the hill to die on for me. It just doesn't matter that much to me to demonstrate my wealth or independence so early on.

The other stuff matters. It's a hill worth not having a relationship over. You must realize some stuff matters and some stuff doesn't. I don't treat all insecurities as equally a problem. The idea that I should is stupid. I'm not perpetuating anything, I'm just not fighting it because at the end of the day, if a man wants to provide, I'm here for it. We can work out a more equitable system when his ego isn't as tied up with it due to tradition.

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West-Ad-9697 · 2022-11-14T07:53:18+00:00

I think the issue is a misunderstanding of the term.

If you read the literature and not watch the reaction social commentary videos, you will see the term refers to the wimp and the frustrated chump that tries too hard.

While positive masculinity is described as supportive, parental and protective.

That sounds like a page out of conservative pamphlets.

Where the issue with the cultural usage of the term comes from is when you label behaviors without actually acknowledging the personal experience of the people behind those behaviors. As red pillers we tell guys - you're either the champion on the finish line or the chump that cries because it's too hard. Women do not see chump's potential or understand that all champions where chumps in the past.

Just like men can't tell how a girl with make-up and fashion on point actually is just a skilled gremlin and the working girl with greasy hair and bags under her eyes is a fashion model without the time and opportunities of the IG girls.

That's just the halo effect and how sexual dynamic lenses work. We either like to fuck or not - and that then gets reversed rationalized with our values and beliefs.

In effect - guys see OF girls and kind and helpless and women are more likely to react negatively to a bumbling kiss by a friendzoned chump than the clear invitation to drink more by a tall dark and handsome stranger in a club.

RP solution - if you're a good man and would like to help women - become fuckable. Because in between a tall dark handsome stranger and a FWB - most non self destructive women will chose the FWB. And even the self distructive woman would learn to care for herself better if she knows there's fuckable good men out in the world and she doesn't have to resign herself as rap bait whenever she wants some hard fucking to forget her workweek.

Mindless-Spare-2454 · 2022-11-14T08:17:22+00:00

Toxic masculinity is another bullshit term made up. The idea that there is something inherently toxic about masculinity is ridiculous. Also the women who make the claim of “toxic masculinity” do what every woman does, which is have their cake an eat it. They want men to express these toxic traits but only when they deem necessary.

I was walking home recently, a woman came up to me and started walking by my side (I’m 6’2 & about 17 stone) basically she was being followed and wanted me to step in just in case the man following her tried something.

So she instantly assumed I would protect her, she assumed that because I was a man, if she was indeed getting attacked I would jump in and put myself at risk to help her. My aggression, strength, fighting capability weren’t toxic then. So there was nothing toxic about that, even though it’s perpetually said these are toxic traits.

beleidigtewurst · 2022-11-14T08:25:58+00:00

"Toxic masculinity" is simply disguised men hating, founded on fantasies, outright lies and anything, but science.

It is just a tool to bash men and whine about imaginary "patriarchy" (a system created by men FOR men which never existed) and how oppressed women, who are actually so privileged it is funny to hear about oppression, are.

beleidigtewurst · 2022-11-14T08:29:45+00:00

I found out men dont like it when I pay half of the bill

This is a lie.

Women have 2 strong instincts at play here (that is also why women tip less):

1) Seek men who demonstrate capability and commitment to provide resources. 2) Don't share your resources with others

Fun fact: testosterone pills make people more generous at sharing

(there is another finding that male bosses are more generous at sharing success with the team)

It sorta makes sense for a hunter/gatherer societies, as hunters would normally share prey with entire tribe.

Khabeni412 · 2022-11-14T19:59:10+00:00

Toxic masculinity is caused and reinforced by women. There are such things as "nice" girls and toxic women.

Title	Most women don't care about toxic masculinity and actively perpetuate it when it suits them.
Author	Rubber-duck7203
Upvotes	192
Comments	305
Date	November 13, 2022 1:55 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/yu2cu8/most_women_dont_care_about_toxic_masculinity_and/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/most-women-dont-care-about-toxic-masculinity-and.1138747 https://theredarchive.com/post/1138747

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Fun fact: testosterone pills make people more generous at sharing